Flying Wedge vs Cross Sixes Set

I experimented with the "flying wedge" set in craps this past weekend. The flying wedge is also called the 3V or "big V" set and your two dice are gripped with the 3s showing a V or wedge or Hard 6 on top. Ideally you have 6 in the front and 8 in the back and 6s on the outside and 8s on the inside. In other words, all the way around the dice are showing a 6 or an 8. Under the flying wedge of V are the two 4s for the Hard 8.

If you believe in dice influencing this set is supposed to give you more inside numbers, and specifically the 6s and 8s.

When I tried it this weekend, I did get more 6s but the 6s I got were 4-2. To get 4-2 one die has to flip over completely making two turns, while one die makes a one-face turn. In reality, did my dice fly in the air, rotate, hit the table and bounce off the back wall, and then roll and come to rest with one die only turning two faces and one die turning only one face? No way. And if you think that's what happened I have an antique artifact in South Carolina to sell you with the Confederate Flag flying on its rooftop.

But I did get a lot of 4-2 combinations showing. And I found that interesting.

After my experiment which went for three hands and some mild success -- I went back to using my cross-sixes: one die has the 6 vertical and the other has the 6 horizontal and in the front 3/2 or 5/4 shows.

The cross sixes set is supposed to target outside numbers and that's always been my experience. This past weekend during one really good roll I hit the "10" six times, and I hit the "4" four times. But I was also hitting a good share of 5s and 9, and 6s and 8s too. What I wasn't hitting was 7s -- and that's what's most important.

Do I believe in this? Not really. Because I have seen shooters who pick up the dice and just throw them have monster rolls. But -- it doesn't hurt to try.

I see another Frank Scoblete book coming out after he reads this, and I see everyone on WoV getting ready to laugh even more.

A Flying Wedgie??

Alan,
I'm not proving/disproving "dice influence" exists, but when I rolled my 104-roll hand in Reno, I used the 3V set the entire time (standing Stick-1-right)

How long did your 104 roll hand take timspeed? I'm going to guess a little less than an hour. While that is a true monster roll it is very believable. Good for you. Did the 3V give you more inside numbers? Or did it just help you avoid the devil?

2 and a half hours...with 84 "box" numbers, and 19 horns...

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Originally Posted by timspeed

2 and a half hours...with 84 "box" numbers, and 19 horns...

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How did you happen to count the box numbers and the horns?

And two and a half hours? Are you sure?

I wrote about this once before: at Caesars a shooter had a monster hand and I noted on my watch when he got the dice. When he was finished -- and the players won a lot of money, and several passes were made -- I asked my side of the table how long he held the dice? The estimates ranged between 25 and 30 minutes. But it was exactly -- and only -- 12 minutes. You can see the original post here: http://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/showth...ster+roll+long and it's post #27

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Originally Posted by timspeed

I'm not proving/disproving "dice influence" exists, but when I rolled my 104-roll hand in Reno, I used the 3V set the entire time (standing Stick-1-right)

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Damn timspeed, 104 truly is a monster roll. Do you keep track of your roll with the chips in your rail? I used to count my rolls that way but dont count very often anymore.

Alan, I use the 3V about 90% of the time, with the hardway set and straight sixes (come outs only) making up the balance.

Also, I think time wise a 100 plus roll would take every bit of a couple hours. My longest roll was an hour and twenty minutes. I wasnt counting my roll (wish I had) but if I had to guess, I would say it was in the neighborhood of 50-70 rolls. The duration of the roll comes down to number of players, competency of dealers & players, number of players making "exotic" center table bets. On my roll, I was killing the hardways. So, needless to say, the center table was awash in time consuming payouts.

Wasnt Pat D's world record roll over 4 hours long? And yes, she was a random roller. And yes, I do believe in dice influencing.

I used chips to count rolls
Put them on the other side of the rack to count horn numbers
Verified with PitBoss on the time (we "went to the video"; 2:36)
I would have thought they would have "broadcast" it more..considering at the time, Fujitake was the record.

The table was full from the get-go...but we were all "Reno regulars" (ie: broke poor fuckers)
I made ~$200 (I only had a $2 flat pass with 3/4/5x odds)
I was more concentrated on my rolling.
All the people who witnessed (dealers/pitboss included) all still play/work in Reno, so it's easily verifiable.
It happened at Siena Casino..which just now closed the casino portion (hotel only now)

timspeed I think it's interesting that your roll can be verified by people who still work/play in Reno today. Yet, "the captain" can't be verified by anyone.

By the way, I tried to contact the former manager of the casino where the captain had his big roll, but never got a response.

Scooby writes books, that's his moneymaker. Same as Bill..I mean "Bob Dancer" *shrug*
Just wished I'd of done it at The Cal; so I could have gotten a plaque.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

timspeed I think it's interesting that your roll can be verified by people who still work/play in Reno today. Yet, "the captain" can't be verified by anyone.

By the way, I tried to contact the former manager of the casino where the captain had his big roll, but never got a response.

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I followed this thing about that "Captain" here a little, and it seems nothing more than something Scoblete manufactured as a means to sell his brand. Dancer makes up things in his writings all the time for the same reason. Nothing unusual for these type people.

Thank heaven you never made up anything Rob.

Even Grosjean says not to buy anything from Scoblete.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Even Grosjean says not to buy anything from Scoblete.

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I am stumped. Who or what is Grosjean??

James Grosjean, Beyond Counting Exhibit CAA. He lists about four or five authors at the bottom of one of the pages in it that you should never purchase anything from. I personally have no opinion.

So Grosjean is another author? Is his criticism of Scoblete like Singer's criticism of Dancer?

I don't know. I believe that's the only comment in the book. There is a chapter devoted to craps and DI though, I believe. My friend has the book so next time I get a chance, I'll take a look.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Thank heaven you never made up anything Rob.

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If I put it in print anywhere Alan, it was not made up. Even as much as the critics want it to be. There's a BIG difference in what & why these guys write what they write and what I've always written. They do it to get other people's money. I spend my own money constantly helping other people gamble properly.

Grosjean's "Beyond Counting" and it's sequel "Beyond Counting: Exhibit CAA" are not available to the general public. Copies of these books, especially the latter of the two, regularly sell for $2000+ on eBay and other sites.