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Why even bother? I see these shills streaming on YouTube hitting handpays for 5 figures and just using the quickpay feature... Then you have me and my dumbass hitting multiple 1250 wins playing $5 DDB and having to wait around for the handpay and give $10... Why even bother anymore? Why should I be tipping when these people are not and hitting for larger amounts?
I used to tip:
1250 = $10
2000 = $20
4000 = $40
Don't even feel like doing it at all anymore...
Jason, your dad used to chastise me over my stance of never tipping for handpays. But if you're finally gonna stop being intimidated (most tippers scoff at that word but thats what it really is and everyone knows it) into handing over a small portion of your win, do it because giving away $$ to the attendants makes no sense, and not because of what goes on elsewhere. I suspect those using this quickpay feature eventually get coaxed into tipping in some fashion before leaving anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
I tip pretty generously for all non-gambling occasions. I have become more and more anti-tipping for machine and table play. I am horrified by people tipping window clerks at the sports books. Not my job to subsidize dealers and casinos.
One of the side effects of tipping goes like this:
1) You have a marginal edge.
2) Tipping undercuts your marginal edge.
3) This self-sabotage leads to more of a "I don't give a damn" about house edges in your own mind BECAUSE you are self-sabotaging.
Why self-sabotage? Because that is what it is. You are voluntarily donating money to the opposition unless the tips are in the 1/20th of 1 percent range (which could happen, I guess), in which case the advantages of tipping may outweigh the detriments. Occasionally, make that rarely, the advantages of tipping have been real (as Dancer explained a couple of times in his famous book), but those opportunities are virtually extinct.
I would love to hear Todd wax eloquent on WSOP tipping and tipping in poker tournaments in general. If the "tips" aren't voluntary, aren't they "not tips?" I would think Todd would go off the deep end regarding the labeling of involuntary fees as "tips." Out of all of the tipping-while-gambling scenarios, I feel most pressured after cashing in small casino-room-sponsored poker tournaments. The tipping in these is in fact voluntary. The house take is enormous, and you have spent hours sitting with the dealers employed for the tournaments, so you are more than just an anonymous face to each other. Since I know in my mind and heart that I should NOT be playing in these kinds of tourneys (usually I do it as a social thing with friends visiting), I feel more obligated to tip since, truth to tell, I should not be playing in them expecting any kind of profit.
We tip so employees never want to side against us as advantage players.
That's the old Dancer modus operandi. But the benefits of doing so were a lot greater during the early days of players' cards. And back when there were more discretionary comps. Back when "tip" and "bribe" were matters of degree, not definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
I agree if you are playing higher denominations and getting w2's every 15 minutes. I only tip on royals. A royal is special, four 3's is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
You tip because you're intimidated into doing it. It's called weakness, and advantage players are the last ones to lower their edge in such a foolish way--especially these days. And how many times have we heard "they'll slow-pay me if I'm a known non-tipper!" Big whoop--there's usually more available and similar machines nearby, and if there isn't then use the break to your advantage and rest your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
I won $1,000 on Bingo and tipped the Cashier $50, but that was more out of elated and ecstatic gratitude that I won a free $1,000(Bingo is free) than being intimate into doing so.
So you didn't tip when you won the (claimed) $1.5 Million on one push of a VP button?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Anyone who does ok and doesn't mind giving someone $10-$20 because it makes them feel better is "intimidated". Lol big baller Robert Singer showing his true colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerYou tip because you're intimidated into doing it. It's called weakness, and advantage players are the last ones to lower their edge in such a foolish way--especially these days. And how many times have we heard "they'll slow-pay me if I'm a known non-tipper!" Big whoop--there's usually more available and similar machines nearby, and if there isn't then use the break to your advantage and rest your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
I agree with wontpay though. I tend to tip when the slot attendant's opinion could possibly matter. If I am at a random casino it is 50/50 whether I tip at all though.
I am more likely to tip on a handpay received at Chinook Winds as opposed to Spirit Mtn. because CW gives me great comps and SM gives me nothing.
Just had a handpay Thurs. at SM...gave them zilch.
I'm just saying... Why should I when these people are getting much larger taxable wins and tipping nothing. I don't think he ever knew about quickpay features... If we did, we would have definitely used them!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerJason, your dad used to chastise me over my stance of never tipping for handpays. But if you're finally gonna stop being intimidated (most tippers scoff at that word but thats what it really is and everyone knows it) into handing over a small portion of your win, do it because giving away $$ to the attendants makes no sense, and not because of what goes on elsewhere. I suspect those using this quickpay feature eventually get coaxed into tipping in some fashion before leaving anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
I mean, you go to the cage with the tickets... At the cage, sure, pass them $20... But one $20 tip is different than multiple over a single night.
AGREE!Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfromlaI agree if you are playing higher denominations and getting w2's every 15 minutes. I only tip on royals. A royal is special, four 3's is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
It has been a while since I have jumped into a tipping discussion. I tip or used to when I played more machines 1% on handpays. That is $40 on a $4000 Royal which was the majority of my Royals. A few $2000, that I tipped $20. And that was solely out of guilt or whatever pressure is on the player to do so. And of course that amount is not enough. I am sure these attendants were cussing me out.
BUT what really burns me is the expectation of tipping at table games. For What? Dealing the cards, like a monkey or computer/Robot could do (and that is coming). This isn't a service specific to you, like waiter, or valet or what not. This is a freaking menial job that a monkey could do. Should I be tipping the cashier at CVS? (sorry for the reference Tasha)
And it gets even worse. Unlike playing machines, Dealers at table games like blackjack expect a tip whether you win or lose. If you sit there and play for 2 hours (I don't) and lose, they think you should tip. :confused: For what?
AND they don't even want to wait until the end. They think you should tip as you go. You win a hand, you should tip. Seriously, there are some real tip hustlers type dealers out there.
I have gotten to the point that I rarely tip. If it was a real good session, I might throw a $5 tip. But real good session means I won 4 figures, and you know they are cursing me for that. I don't know what they expect, 10%, 20%. It's crazy.
I am just starting to get back into a little bit of machine play. Haven't hit a royal yet, but when i do, I think I am going to go the "no tip" route. Why should I tip for doing their job? Isn't that the casinos responsibility.
UNKewlJ has posted in the past about what an abysmal tipper he is - maybe five bucks at the end of a blackjack session.
But of course now we know why - five bucks or so a hand is about all he plays - in a session.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Mdawg must you hijack every thread with your trolling nonsense.
My apologies Slapinfunk, for weighing in. I should have known it would lead to one of the trolls hijacking.
You should not be tipping in tournaments where the dealers are already getting a percentage of the prize pool. Major tournaments today hold out an amount from each buy-in for the dealers. So everyone that enters is tipping instead of just those that cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Of course the dealers DO ALLOW suckers that cash to go ahead and tip again. Why wouldn't they? But no tournament pros are doing that anymore.
Last years WSOP probably held out $2,000,000 from the buy-ins for the dealers.
For the small daily tournaments in Las Vegas they withhold an ungodly amount of the buy-ins. The dealers are already getting a big cut. But they will still have their hands out at the end for all suckers to tip them.
There is an aspect to tipping at table games that I rarely see discussed and that is the possibility of collusion. For even this slimmest of slim possibilities, tipping should be not allowed.
It has been awhile since this incident, shortly after I moved to Vegas, because I remember thinking "so this is the way Vegas works". Dealer paid me on a hand I didn't win. Happens all the time. So between collecting the cards and dealing the next round the guy made a comment, something like "with the right incentive.... (I forget the exact wording), while looking directly at me.
I exited a few rounds later. I wanted no part of that. If you accept several of those "bonus payment" and are seen tipping on camera, not that hard to prove. My view is that EVERYTHING has risk. And I always like to weigh the risk vs reward for every situation, in and out of casinos.
Just for fun, what would others have done?
I have had maybe one of two other sort of similar but much less blatent incidents over the years as well.
In multiple cases, tipping entitlement IS becoming out of control. A pizza delivery driver cussed out a young Teenager for not tipping him. Sadder thing is , the young Teenager who answered the door wasn't even the one who ordered the food, he merely answered the door. It was actually his little Sister who ordered the food. Little Sister said that she thought the delivery fee was the tip. When I was a child, I also thought the delivery fee was the tip. The delivery driver got fired for cussing out a Customer.
An Adult Customer paid about $5 on a roughly $23 food order. The delivery driver made the first red flag when he said,"It's a nice house for a $5 tip. She graciously thanked him for the food and he straight up CUSSED her out. She didn't cuss him back out, still just politely thanked him for the food. In an interview, she admitted she was SHOCKED at him cussing her out when she actually gave him more than a decent tip. A decent tip is 20 percent. She gave him almost a 22 percent tip. The delivery driver was fired. Refreshingly, EVERYBODY was on the Customer's side and NO ONE supported the delivery driver. Someone even pointed out she could have been babysitting and ordered lunch while on the babysitting job.
A delivery driver stole the food because the Customer didn't tip. The Customer was rightfully LIVID and was like,"I need my food that I paid for. The delivery driver just robbed me of my food. I think the delivery driver was fired.
A Domino's Employee went on a huge rant about not getting tipped after driving in the rain. He knocked over pizza boxes. Luckily for him, he exploded inside of the Domino's and not directly in front of the Customer. He wasn't fired.
A delivery driver cussed out a Customer through a ring camera for giving a $8 tip on a $40 food order I believe. IIRC, she stole the food back and was fired. Once again, the Customer gave a decent tip, exactly 20 percent tip.
An American Waitress was PISSED at European Customers who didn't tip. In Europe, tipping basically doesn't exist, so the European Tourists had absolutely no idea why the American Waitress was mad at them for not tipping. The European Tourists had an American Relative who told the Waitress that they are from Europe and in Europe, tipping basically doesn't exist, and that's why they didn't tip. The Waitress got the point and felt bad for being mad at the European Tourists. The American Relative made sure that his European Tourists Relatives knew to always tip in American Restaurants.
Tipping entitlement has gotten out of hand.
Here's my take on this. ONLY employees who are paid a server wage (typically less than min wage) should expect to be tipped. Delivery drivers are the only exception. Obviously any kind of slot attendant would not fall into this category. That being said I will still give small tips to all kinds of employees in a casino because it makes them happy and I enjoy it, especially those in janitorial positions.
However it should be noted:
The state of Nevada does not allow a 'server wage'.
I would assume that tips given to an attendant after a handpay would usually go into a pool to be distributed with other employees working that day. I also suspect that dealer tips are often treated the same way. Maybe someone who has more specific knowledge about this will chime in.