Another casino back rooming incident

I hear there has been another backrooming incident at the same casino that I was involved in last year. No physical injuries that I have heard of, but casino personél escorted a player to the back room where he was forced to sign a trespass document. The player was not counting cards, but I am told, using another completely legal table game advantage play.

This casino apparently doesn't understand the point that they cannot force a player who has done nothing wrong, nothing illegal, into the backroom, for whatever reason. That is simply illegally detaining. On top of that, a signed document carries no more weight than a verbal trespass, so there is just no reason to be taking anyone to the backroom. It is illegal!!

I don't get why this particular casino seems to be having a hard time understanding this point. Is it because the casino doesn't actually pay any money that may be part of any settlement? What about the Insurance company? Isn't there a point that they won't insure this casino for this kind of incident? What am I missing? :confused:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Always the same UNKewl pattern:

1. Post some nonsense.

2. Is challenged.

3. Fictionalizes about someone or other who
-wrote to him about it
-did the same play
-is aware that UNKewlJ did whatever it is UNKewlJ is claiming he did
-was seen doing the same play.

It's never enough that he did something, he has to also create some lies surrounding corroboration (that always center around unnamed, unknown, never to be revealed players in his fable).

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

There is a clear trend that has developed now. All of KewlJ's implied associates are turning out to be other invented characters in his years of lies. ...RIP

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Insurance doesn't cover intentional torts such as false imprisonment... or of course #completefraudulence.

With most lies, the devil is in the details, but with an UNKewl fable, nothing makes sense, from the brittle bones to the rush to settlement without a lawsuit even being filed (after initially claiming that a lawsuit was filed).

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I don't think there was any incident which was lawsuit-worthy, which is why we got so many changing and bizarre versions of the same story.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

What happened here, is that something happened to someone - to more than one person, and UNKewlJ took it upon himself to put together a composite story about a series of events.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Insurance doesn't cover intentional torts such as false imprisonment... or of course #completefraudulence.

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WRONG. My settlement was 100% paid by an insurance company.

But as usual, you people just want to troll.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Insurance doesn't cover intentional torts such as false imprisonment... or of course #completefraudulence.

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WRONG. My settlement was 100% paid by an insurance company.

But as usual, you people just want to troll.

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What was the name of the insurance company?

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Insurance doesn't cover intentional torts such as false imprisonment... or of course #completefraudulence.

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WRONG. My settlement was 100% paid by an insurance company.

But as usual, you people just want to troll.

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What was the name of the insurance company?

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Come on man. I am not allowed to say that. The company was 2 letters. Something & somerhing.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

WRONG. My settlement was 100% paid by an insurance company.

But as usual, you people just want to troll.

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What was the name of the insurance company?

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Come on man. I am not allowed to say that. The company was 2 letters. Something & somerhing.

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To terms of your settlement forbid you to say the name of the insurance company that the casino uses?

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

To terms of your settlement forbid you to say the name of the insurance company that the casino uses?

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Absolutely!!!

I cannot discuss terms or any parties involved.

That is the Point of a Confidential settlement agreement.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Insurance doesn't cover intentional torts such as false imprisonment... or of course #completefraudulence.

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WRONG. My settlement was 100% paid by an insurance company.

But as usual, you people just want to troll.

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Posting this here, knowing exactly the response you’re going to get before you post, is trolling

Do you think the casino would behave even worse if vct hadn't convinced you to sue them?

They still sound out of control
Committing BLATANTLY illegal acts.

I haven't researched or looked into the legality of being backroomed in sin city but it's obviously an interesting subject.

Is there a Nevada statute or case law which prohibits it, other than general notions of false imprisonment?

Do the casinos give the detainee the initial choice to follow them to the back room?

For example, do they preface things with "Will you please come with us?"

If so they can argue waiver / voluntary compliance.

Were I ever asked to go with staff I'd refuse and attempt to leave...as should we all, in my opinion: "Just say NO."

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

Anything requiring research with FraudJ is a complete waste of time.

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UNKewlJ's fictional settlement was coughed up even before any kind of lawsuit was filed (after trying desperately to establish that there was a lawsuit), and quickly, making this new wrinkle in the lie, that it was paid out by an insurance company (on a Saturday non-banking day, via transfer :D) even more absurd.

What is beyond amusing too is that UNKewlJ offers opinions as to that others here might be trying to protect her anonymity, when all she does is try desperately via repeated posts to establish that this (and a plethora of other stories that would jeopardize her anonymity) really happened. Why would anyone here care about UNKewlJ's anonymity, when she obviously is not concerned.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I don't believe any part of your backroom story and I'm skeptical about 75% of everything else.

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Originally Posted by redietz

You have fake deaths, marriages and deaths, evil doxxers, backroom arm-breakers, and after-the-fact-"misdirection" that would have been unnecessary if you simply don't make public the narrative.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

The UNKewl one was a liar, and like most liars, he was constantly changing his stories, altering time and personnel from one telling to the next. One time he would tell a story about someone, next time he would switch the story around to give himself the lead. He would sit in the casino coffee shop over coffee and pound cake, talking at random about his experiences, posting constantly on internet forums, plotting ways to take down all those he is envious of, never actually entering the casino, afraid like a nervous poodle to even play.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I haven't researched or looked into the legality of being backroomed in sin city but it's obviously an interesting subject.

Is there a Nevada statute or case law which prohibits it, other than general notions of false imprisonment?

Do the casinos give the detainee the initial choice to follow them to the back room?

For example, do they preface things with "Will you please come with us?"

If so they can argue waiver / voluntary compliance.

Were I ever asked to go with staff I'd refuse and attempt to leave...as should we all, in my opinion: "Just say NO."

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As per asking "will you come with me/us"? That certainly wasn't my experience. I had two guys "escorting" me to the back room, one had hold of my arm. I mean, I could have probably broken that hold, but the point is, at least in my case, which is all I will speak of, there was nothing "voluntary" about it.

The precedent, was the James Grosjean case. I believe the term used in that case was "illegal imprisonment", but I could be wrong. But THAT is the case that changed everything and we had more than a decade of 'polite backoffs' as opposed to the back-rooming shit. THAT was most of my time in Vegas. I guess I was lucky to have come along at just the right time.

But there seems to have been a bit of a shift in the last several years (post covid, not that it has anything to do with covid). there have been 4 or 5 back-rooming type incidents in this time period. And several by this one casino. I don't know what changed. But it is worth noting that the casino in question is owned/run by an old school type of owner, from a longtime Vegas casino family.

I think, and this is just an opinion, that it is going to take not just a couple of these cases costing the casino and/or insurance companies 6 figure settlements or verdicts, but the negative publicity that goes with that. Unfortunately, that second part, going public, I wasn't willing to do, and other players may not be willing to do. James was willing. Thank you James.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I haven't researched or looked into the legality of being backroomed in sin city but it's obviously an interesting subject.

Is there a Nevada statute or case law which prohibits it, other than general notions of false imprisonment?

Do the casinos give the detainee the initial choice to follow them to the back room?

For example, do they preface things with "Will you please come with us?"

If so they can argue waiver / voluntary compliance.

Were I ever asked to go with staff I'd refuse and attempt to leave...as should we all, in my opinion: "Just say NO."

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They ask you to accompany them and then compel you when you refuse. (I guess sometimes they give up when you refuse but I've not heard of that).

The relevant tort is false imprisonment. They need something like reasonable suspicion that you have committed a gaming related crime to detain you (I assume there are other permissible grounds like actively commiting a violent crime but they aren't relevant here).

The problem is that with card counting and holecarding and other table games AP the suspected acts are not crimes in NV in the first place, therefore detaining you on suspicion of them is a false imprisonment.

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Originally Posted by mcap

Posting this here, knowing exactly the response you’re going to get before you post, is trolling

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The first poster, anywhere, that I, finally, put on ignore. Ha.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

The problem is that with card counting and holecarding and other table games AP the suspected acts are not crimes in NV in the first place, therefore detaining you on suspicion of them is a false imprisonment.

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There is a bit of a tricky area here. Even if you are completely in the right, your reaction, should you get loud, argumentative, in any way violent, even just pulling away from a hold, they can claim you are creating a disturbance. So you really need to be careful and in control. You really should have planned out the scenario, of just what you will do when/if this situation occurs.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

What’s crazy about all this is that any normal person would realize that his ever changing story and desperate attempts to put out fires is just confirming that his story is false, and making him look even worse, but a sociopathic liar can’t help himself, and keeps lying just to cover up other lies.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

Compulsive liar is a fair assessment of what he is. If people go back and look at your last few stories they will see a trend in you always changing the story after you get caught lying.

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Oh thank god. The political bickering around here was getting tiresome. Please post more details as you get them kewl.

Notice the embarrassing pattern kew follows here--to a tee.

He begins to get nervous whenever he feels he's no longer the center of attention; he then fabricates a gaming-related story in order to satisfy his craving for relevance, and gets back on track; his poorly thought out details that always do him in are easily spotted by the forum's true AP's and gamblers; as his tale begins to unravel and be exposed as just another lie, he scrambles to "adjust the facts" while claiming those who know better are nothing but "trolls"; he then argues with anyone and everyone who reveal his lying, posting repetitive long rambling essays in the process; and after suffering the same humiliation for the umpteenth time, he angrily announces that he's "DONE WITH THE FORUM, AND IS LEAVING IT FOR GOOD THIS TIME BECAUSE HE'S HAD ENOUGH!!"

But seeing that the little fairy is lacking in discipline, has zero integrity/conviction/strength, and feels far inferior than anyone who caught him in his various lies....he ALWAYS returns due to his being addicted to forum posting where he can continually go on concocting his phony-ass life. And all of this is basically supported by what I know about his failure of a real life.

No wonder the twit hides, and posts about his mommy so much.