My Casino back-rooming.

I wasn't going to share this on open forum, but it has now become pretty common knowledge throughout the Las Vegas AP community and since I have decided not to pursue any legal action, will share this incident.

Up until recently, I had never been back-roomed, that is taken off the casino floor. There was an incident back in 2006 or 2007 before I moved to Las Vegas were I was being led to a backroom and talked my way out of it, simply by mentioning Bob Nersesian's name. That tactic did not work this time around.

This incident occurred several weeks ago at a notoriously sweaty casino "south" (<- :rolleyes:) of the strip. I was forcibly taken to a backroom, roughed up, resulting in a broken arm. Not the hammer induced broken arm stuff from the movies, but just a fracture resulting from being roughed up and thrown into a chair. My requests to contact my attorney were denied. My requests for medical attention were denied, even after I stated that I thought my arm was broken. I was read a trespass statement, told not to return and signed some documentation to that effect and then released, all of which is illegal, starting with the illegal detention itself. The whole incident probably took 15-20 minutes.

During my 14 years living and playing here in Las Vegas, I have probably had 60-70 backoffs, with 90% what we call "polite backoffs". "You are too good, no more blackjack", "your game is too strong", something along those lines. But I honestly thought this kind of shit was over with in Las Vegas, in large part because of the many lawsuits that have held casinos and casino personnel accountable for their illegal actions.

And because I have benefited from all those other players taking such action, I almost feel an obligation to pursue some legal action, not for the money but to do my part in holding casinos and the individual people responsible to hopefully deter this kind of future behavior. BUT doing so, is just going to be far more damaging to my circumstances and goals of longevity than any financial reward I would win, because it would be in the news if I went forward. In the end I have to do what is best for my situation.

People wonder why APs, myself included and really anyone that knows and deals with this industry, despises the industry so much.

Kewlj, did Zenking possess you? Your latest post are very reminiscent of Zenking.

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Originally Posted by Tasha

Kewlj, did Zenking possess you? Your latest post are very reminiscent of Zenking.

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I do not recall Zenking posting of any backroom incident. If there was something please refresh my memory. He has had some backoff of which he has spoken that were a little unfriendlier than most of the "polite backoffs" that I and other players I talk to have experienced, but that is because Zenking does exactly the wrong thing in those situation. He becomes confrontational and combative, when the play is to exit quickly and quietly.

I know the game within the game, and how to play the game within the game and handle different situations. But it becomes harder when the opponent won't play by the rules, OR THE LAW.

God forbid you get in a car and drive to a casino not located in Las Vegas.

I would sue no matter what. Take the money and buy a business.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I would sue no matter what. Take the money and buy a business.

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I don't think we are talking that kind of money, mickey. If I thought we were talking multiple 6 figures it would be worth it. Grosjean won half a million, but the verdicts that followed were much less usually low 6 figures or even upper 5 figures. If we are talking 75k, or even slightly more, right off the top attorney fees are 33% and there would be several years before any trial with publicity and my name being out there. I just can't afford that on the heels of issues I have deal with over the last 18 months.

It pains me to make that decision....it really does. More than any financial amount, I would love to see security management be held accountable and lose their jobs, just to send a freaking message going forward. That would only occur with a sizeable verdict against. But I just can't do it right now.

Why did you allow them to take you to the "back room?"

Isn't the correct play to simply head for the exit?

So far as not "lawyering up:" did you call Bob and talk to him about your options, and the likely recovery amount?

C'mon man, you say they roughed you up and broke your arm: in this day and age that seems egregious.

Talk to Bob; could be it can be settled quickly without a lot of publicity.

Anyway, the damage is done as if you showed ID they have your name, address and pic as does OSN.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I would sue no matter what. Take the money and buy a business.

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I don't think we are talking that kind of money, mickey. If I thought we were talking multiple 6 figures it would be worth it. Grosjean won half a million, but the verdicts that followed were much less usually low 6 figures or even upper 5 figures. If we are talking 75k, or even slightly more, right off the top attorney fees are 33% and there would be several years before any trial with publicity and my name being out there. I just can't afford that on the heels of issues I have deal with over the last 18 months.

It pains me to make that decision....it really does. More than any financial amount, I would love to see security management be held accountable and lose their jobs, just to send a freaking message going forward. That would only occur with a sizeable verdict against. But I just can't do it right now.

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I'm no lawyer but I think breaking your arm makes a big difference.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Why did you allow them to take you to the "back room?"

Isn't the correct play to simply head for the exit?

So far as not "lawyering up:" did you call Bob and talk to him about your options, and the likely recovery amount?

C'mon man, you say they roughed you up and broke your arm: in this day and age that seems egregious.

Talk to Bob; could be it can be settled quickly without a lot of publicity.

Anyway, the damage is done as if you showed ID they have your name, address and pic as does OSN.

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They'll physically coerce you. I believe standard advice now is to state plainly that you do not consent to ago and indicate that to a camera if you can but to make limited effort to physically resist as the casino can represent that at trial is you getting aggressive with their security or something.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Why did you allow them to take you to the "back room?"

Isn't the correct play to simply head for the exit?

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With due respect to your legal knowledge and expertise MrV, it isn't about "allowing" anything.

Here is the was it went down. I was requested to step away from the table. (not really a request). So I responded that I was just leaving anyway and gathers my chip. With players I have talked to that sometimes is enough to end this situation. It wasn't in this case. Next they tell you they are taking you to sign some documents. I responded telling them that this was an illegal detention and requesting to contact my attorney. This should be enough to let them know that you know the law and what the consequences will be if they continue with this illegal detention. At that point if they continue, they are knowingly breaking the law.

If you resist in any way, and a struggle ensues, they can claim you were creating a disturbance and a threat, so you don't want to do that.

I did everything textbook, just as I had always planned I would if the situation ever arose.

After I was released and exited the building, I called an ambulance from right there outside the front door. I didn't need an ambulance and could have driven myself, but I wanted the documentation of what had happened and where. At the hospital, I called the police who took a statement with injuries backed up by medical personél at the hospital.

The next morning, I called my attorney, and you know who he is, he is THE expert in these cases. He immediately put an order in for the casino to hold the video of the incident. We met the following day and discussed options, probably outcomes, timelines and what would be involved. One of the big problems for me, is this kind of case can't really be handled quietly. You really need to contact the media. It is almost like you are trying the case in the court of public opinion before it ever gets close to trail, with the hope of a settlement, which would not come until much later.

I thought about everything for a couple weeks now, and I just am not willing to go through all that and made my final decision over the weekend and informed my attorney. I think the money involved and the long timeline involved is not enough to offset the damage to my career and anonymity that I would incur.

Thanks for the clarification as to how to respond, smurgerburger, I stand corrected.

Do they tape what happens when "back roomed?"

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

but to make limited effort to physically resist as the casino can represent that at trial is you getting aggressive with their security or something.

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Exactly correct! If you resist, and a struggle ensues, they can say you were creating a disturbance and a threat. I don't think casino security carries taser (don't know for sure), but if you did this involving police, they could use that as an excuse to taser and use force.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Do they tape what happens when "back roomed?"

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There was a camera and there is video footage. in the old days, that backroom was the place with no cameras. I think that changed in the lawsuit era.

I have actually seen the footage. It is pretty damning. It clearly shows a uniformed security officer shove me towards a chair at which I hit my arm on the desk as I landed. With or without legal action that guard should be terminated, although I won't hold my breath.

I think I have given all the details now, which wasn't really my intent. I really just wanted to remind people, fellow APs and even non-APs, of what we are up against, an opponent that cheats, lies, steals and even commits crimes. And while the environment is far better than it used to be, there are still some sleezebag criminal element left over. Be careful and just always know what you are dealing with.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Why did you allow them to take you to the "back room?"

Isn't the correct play to simply head for the exit?

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With due respect to your legal knowledge and expertise MrV, it isn't about "allowing" anything.

Here is the was it went down. I was requested to step away from the table. (not really a request). So I responded that I was just leaving anyway and gathers my chip. With players I have talked to that sometimes is enough to end this situation. It wasn't in this case. Next they tell you they are taking you to sign some documents. I responded telling them that this was an illegal detention and requesting to contact my attorney. This should be enough to let them know that you know the law and what the consequences will be if they continue with this illegal detention. At that point if they continue, they are knowingly breaking the law.

If you resist in any way, and a struggle ensues, they can claim you were creating a disturbance and a threat, so you don't want to do that.

I did everything textbook, just as I had always planned I would if the situation ever arose.

After I was released and exited the building, I called an ambulance from right there outside the front door. I didn't need an ambulance and could have driven myself, but I wanted the documentation of what had happened and where. At the hospital, I called the police who took a statement with injuries backed up by medical personél at the hospital.

The next morning, I called my attorney, and you know who he is, he is THE expert in these cases. He immediately put an order in for the casino to hold the video of the incident. We met the following day and discussed options, probably outcomes, timelines and what would be involved. One of the big problems for me, is this kind of case can't really be handled quietly. You really need to contact the media. It is almost like you are trying the case in the court of public opinion before it ever gets close to trail, with the hope of a settlement, which would not come until much later.

I thought about everything for a couple weeks now, and I just am not willing to go through all that and made my final decision over the weekend and informed my attorney. I think the money involved and the long timeline involved is not enough to offset the damage to my career and anonymity that I would incur.

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sniff sniff what is that I smell.

How were you detained? They asked you to go to a backroom! you haven't explained why you just didn't leave which is the textbook thing to do. It is a horrible look if they try to hold onto you and if they do it is there on the camera.

"contact the media". You broke your arm and called an ambulance outside with footage inside of you being led away ! Broken arm = x-ray = solid proof.

I wouldn't be surprised though you don't sue simply because if what you says happens to be true then you need to hang on to this "I am a blackjack" player thing for your own self-image.

You also have footage of the backroom when they literally broke your arm !?!

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

sniff sniff what is that I smell.

How were you detained? They asked you to go to a backroom! you haven't explained why you just didn't leave which is the textbook thing to do. It is a horrible look if they try to hold onto you and if they do it is there on the camera.

"contact the media". You broke your arm and called an ambulance outside with footage inside of you being led away ! Broken arm = x-ray = solid proof.

I wouldn't be surprised though you don't sue simply because if what you says happens to be true then you need to hang on to this "I am a blackjack" player thing for your own self-image.

You also have footage of the backroom when they literally broke your arm !?!

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I don't "have" the footage but have seen it. A copy was immediately sent to my attorney upon request which I viewed in his office on a computer.

More importantly, can't you ever stop acting like a dick and trolling? For God sake man!

The only reason NOT to sue, I suppose, would be to try to keep your anonymity but in the days of OSN hasn't that ship sailed?

I suppose the sensible thing to do, given your current desire not to press it, would be to keep playing elsewhere as usual and see if they're now "on to you" and then decide whether to sue.

If they seem to know who you are and flat bet you then there'd be no down side to suing, but if not and if you can continue to card count as before then maybe they're not on to you.

Tough call.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

The only reason NOT to sue, I suppose, would be to try to keep your anonymity but in the days of OSN hasn't that ship sailed?

I suppose the sensible thing to do, given your current desire not to press it, would be to keep playing elsewhere as usual and see if they're now "on to you" and then decide whether to sue.

If they seem to know who you are and flat bet you then there'd be no down side to suing, but if not and if you can continue to card count as before then maybe they're not on to you.

Tough call.

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I played 4 nights over the last 2 weekends MrV. :)

An entry in one of the databases, even a pretty devastating one like my last one, 18 months ago, is not a death blow that some think. Unlike 30 years a go with the Griffin "book", this is not a book in the pit that they leaf through. It is a database on a computer in the pit. And only the most recent dozen or 15 entries are the real danger. Once new entries are added and your entry slides to the second and third "page" or screen, it becomes less devastating, as few pit folks look beyond the first page or two unless they are specifically looking for someone. BUT, I like to be extra cautious and give it several months to get buried. My last one I gave a full 6 months out of an abundance of caution.

The other thing to know about the database service is that most casinos subscribe, especially all the major casinos. But different casinos utilize the database differently and some not at all, even though they subscribe. And a surprisingly low number contribute, that is initiate an new entry. Most just "take".

If you are a serious player, the more of this kind of stuff you can know, the better. This is the kind of area that networking is valuable. People think networking is about sharing a good game. :D Rarely! Players keep that to themselves. But they will share this kind of information. :cool:

There is one other related danger area regarding the databases and that is that some pit critter, sees your entry and say "hey that guy plays here". That is when they might print out your entry, especially if a picture is involved and post it in the pit. That is sort of the modern version of the "flyering" on players using fax machines. I don't think it happens anywhere close to what it did back in the fax machine days, simply because if you look at the pit podium, you don't see a lot of printouts taped up like you would if this was a common occurrence.

Just an opinion: but I would say that the modern database system is less problematic to a player than the old methods of Griffin "book" and fax machine flyering. You just need a little time and most things resolve themselves. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

sniff sniff what is that I smell.

How were you detained? They asked you to go to a backroom! you haven't explained why you just didn't leave which is the textbook thing to do. It is a horrible look if they try to hold onto you and if they do it is there on the camera.

"contact the media". You broke your arm and called an ambulance outside with footage inside of you being led away ! Broken arm = x-ray = solid proof.

I wouldn't be surprised though you don't sue simply because if what you says happens to be true then you need to hang on to this "I am a blackjack" player thing for your own self-image.

You also have footage of the backroom when they literally broke your arm !?!

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I don't "have" the footage but have seen it. A copy was immediately sent to my attorney upon request which I viewed in his office on a computer.

More importantly, can't you ever stop acting like a dick and trolling? For God sake man!

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You have it if your attorney has it.

You still didn't answer how they illegally detained you. Or what you said that led up to the guy "throwing" you into the chair? You didn't resist at the table but you somehow resisted in the back room to the extent security broke your arm manhandling you?

I'm a troll. I really know 0 about AP stuff. Don't you know? Myself and others have piece by piece dismantled this forum until it is nothing but mean nasty sad old troll men.

KJ, I'm "out of my element" but would like to hear your thoughts on facial recognition viz. OSN database.

Do major / any casinos scan the faces of all incoming patrons and / or players at BJ tables via facial recognition?

If so, what database would they be trying to match them to?

Wouldn't they have an incentive to implement a program that compares the image to the image from OSN?

That would be brutal, especially if it is done automatically and if a match is found an alarm is given.

I have a lot of questions about this.

1) You seem to be especially concerned about your identity being known -- not just among casino personnel, but also among forum members. Wouldn't a lawsuit make your identity easy to deduce? If so, why would you post it here and bring our attention to it?

2) The broken arm is the most sensational part of this case. You say that it broke when they forced you into a chair. Can you elaborate more? Why weren't you given medical assistance immediately? I broke my arm in 1989, and it was very painful, especially in the time that followed, which was much worse than the break itself. Where did the arm break, and was it a full break, or just a fracture? I also had a fracture and it wasn't nearly as bad as the break.

3) Why did you not call your attorney immediately? Why did you wait until "the next morning"?


I am not doubting your story, just trying to understand here.

I have never been backroomed either, though I have gotten fairly close twice. About 20 years ago, a casino had security surround me with about 5 guards, right after the cashout, and demand my ID. This was in Vegas. I refused to give my ID, and when they asked why, my response was, "Because it's my right not to." The manager, who was female, looked like she was considering backrooming me, but ultimately settled upon just 86ing me. I made sure to keep my hands at my side the entire time, so nobody could attack me and claim self defense. I was led out, and the incident was over.

The other time was more recently at an Indian casino. I was confronted by security when redeeming freeplay on my own card, accused of multi-carding. I told them I was on my own card, and had no other cards with me. They demanded ID. I actually gave it because this was an Indian casino where I had no rights, and I had my girlfriend and kid waiting in the car for what was supposed to be a quick redemption of freeplay, on the way elsewhere! They then demanded I sign that I would never return, and that I would be arrested if I did. Again, I didn't have to do this, but I agreed. I also agreed to remove my hat for a better picture of me. Since I planned never to return anyway, this wasn't a huge deal. Again, in Vegas I wouldn't have agreed to any of this, but I didn't want to be detained for 8 hours while my family sat in the car in the middle of nowhere. With that, they actually let me cash out my ticket, and I left the property. I felt a huge relief as soon as I stepped out the door of that casino.

For those questioning why kewlJ "let them backroom him", it's not that simple. Ideally you will just walk out the door, but with security surrounding you and accusing you of cheating in some way, this could be considered an attempt to escape, and can justify physical force to detain you. I would refuse a backrooming and be loud about it if necessary, but I would not physically attempt to get away from them.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I have a lot of questions about this.

1) You seem to be especially concerned about your identity being known -- not just among casino personnel, but also among forum members. Wouldn't a lawsuit make your identity easy to deduce? If so, why would you post it here and bring our attention to it?

2) The broken arm is the most sensational part of this case. You say that it broke when they forced you into a chair. Can you elaborate more? Why weren't you given medical assistance immediately? I broke my arm in 1989, and it was very painful, especially in the time that followed, which was much worse than the break itself. Where did the arm break, and was it a full break, or just a fracture? I also had a fracture and it wasn't nearly as bad as the break.

3) Why did you not call your attorney immediately? Why did you wait until "the next morning"?

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1). Absolutely a lawsuit would make my identity easy to deduce. That is the major reason I have decided against it. Dan Druff, I know you don't read everything on this forum. Are you aware that I was doxed in late 2021, not so much on this forum, but at GF, that lead to a brand new entry into the databases complete with information they previously didn't have? I know that the entry in OSN came from the doxed information because there was one piece of information that was incorrect that showed up both places, which served as a marker. Because of that incident, I spent much of last year, "laying low", playing less than 50% EV-wise of my average.

So the last thing I want right now is another period where I have to lay low for a while for things to cool down. And if I pursued a law suit, that period could be several years rather than months. Now that I have decided not to pursue legal action, I just felt like I could share some of this experience as a reminder to other players that while thing have gotten much better in the back-rooming/illegal detention area, we are still dealing with this same freaking industry that doesn't play fair or by the rules and laws.

2. My break was not a total break meaning the broken bones did not detached from each other. It was a fracture. And yes it did hurt. That is why I almost immediately said I think you broke my arm for which the supervisor didn't seem to care.

3. This happened early evening. By the time I got home after the hospital and filling a police report it was 10pm. I have an emergency contact number but just didn't see the need to call the attorney at 10pm for something that could wait until morning. All that really needs to happen in the first few days is the attorney make a formal request that the casino preserve the video evidence. The next morning was fine for that.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

For those questioning why kewlJ "let them backroom him", it's not that simple. Ideally you will just walk out the door, but with security surrounding you and accusing you of cheating in some way, this could be considered an attempt to escape, and can justify physical force to detain you. I would refuse a backrooming and be loud about it if necessary, but I would not physically attempt to get away from them.

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I agree with everything you wrote here with the exception of the "loud" part. Getting loud and yelling only gets testosterone flowing and escalates things. You really want to de-escalate.

For people like AccountinQuestion asking "how they illegally detained me"? When you are surrounded by security and management, who have the authority to detain a person (when a crime is committed), and one of them has hold of your arm....you are detained. If you try to fight them off and run away, you are opening up a whole other can of worms and possibilities.

And if you have actually done nothing wrong or illegal, such a detention is illegal and an abuse of power.

Security has a trick of blocking the way to the exit. There is no room to go around them and if you try to push by them they will call it assault.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I have a lot of questions about this.

1) You seem to be especially concerned about your identity being known -- not just among casino personnel, but also among forum members. Wouldn't a lawsuit make your identity easy to deduce? If so, why would you post it here and bring our attention to it?

2) The broken arm is the most sensational part of this case. You say that it broke when they forced you into a chair. Can you elaborate more? Why weren't you given medical assistance immediately? I broke my arm in 1989, and it was very painful, especially in the time that followed, which was much worse than the break itself. Where did the arm break, and was it a full break, or just a fracture? I also had a fracture and it wasn't nearly as bad as the break.

3) Why did you not call your attorney immediately? Why did you wait until "the next morning"?


I am not doubting your story, just trying to understand here.

I have never been backroomed either, though I have gotten fairly close twice. About 20 years ago, a casino had security surround me with about 5 guards, right after the cashout, and demand my ID. This was in Vegas. I refused to give my ID, and when they asked why, my response was, "Because it's my right not to." The manager, who was female, looked like she was considering backrooming me, but ultimately settled upon just 86ing me. I made sure to keep my hands at my side the entire time, so nobody could attack me and claim self defense. I was led out, and the incident was over.

The other time was more recently at an Indian casino. I was confronted by security when redeeming freeplay on my own card, accused of multi-carding. I told them I was on my own card, and had no other cards with me. They demanded ID. I actually gave it because this was an Indian casino where I had no rights, and I had my girlfriend and kid waiting in the car for what was supposed to be a quick redemption of freeplay, on the way elsewhere! They then demanded I sign that I would never return, and that I would be arrested if I did. Again, I didn't have to do this, but I agreed. I also agreed to remove my hat for a better picture of me. Since I planned never to return anyway, this wasn't a huge deal. Again, in Vegas I wouldn't have agreed to any of this, but I didn't want to be detained for 8 hours while my family sat in the car in the middle of nowhere. With that, they actually let me cash out my ticket, and I left the property. I felt a huge relief as soon as I stepped out the door of that casino.

For those questioning why kewlJ "let them backroom him", it's not that simple. Ideally you will just walk out the door, but with security surrounding you and accusing you of cheating in some way, this could be considered an attempt to escape, and can justify physical force to detain you. I would refuse a backrooming and be loud about it if necessary, but I would not physically attempt to get away from them.

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Which Indian casino?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Security has a trick of blocking the way to the exit. There is no room to go around them and if you try to push by them they will call it assault.

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I have had a couple different instances (not recently though) where I saw security and suits gathering like a storm on the horizon and quickly exited the game and weaved my way through rows of slot machines to an exit. :D

I didn't see this one coming though until they were on me. I will call it complacency or just flat out not being as alert as I should have been. :(

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Originally Posted by MisterV

KJ, I'm "out of my element" but would like to hear your thoughts on facial recognition viz. OSN database.

Do major / any casinos scan the faces of all incoming patrons and / or players at BJ tables via facial recognition?

If so, what database would they be trying to match them to?

Wouldn't they have an incentive to implement a program that compares the image to the image from OSN?

That would be brutal, especially if it is done automatically and if a match is found an alarm is given.

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I am not aware of any issues MrV. And I say that on the same day that I just shared a backroom incident...so :D. Seriously I don't know.

When casinos in Vegas started using facial recognition, about 8 years ago, it reportedly wasn't very good or accurate. I have heard it has gotten better. But the surveillance systems in casinos featuring camera in the ceiling aren't the ideal situation. My understanding is a straight away shot works much better.

You would hope that top priority would be connecting to criminal and terrorist type databases. But with this industry, probably not.

I will be worried when I start seeing more and more backoffs with no explanation, and to date, this latest back-rooming incident aside, I have not seen that, nor has my brother who plays even more than I have the past couple years, nor have I heard anything like that from other players I talk to. As a matter of fact, for me personally, 2022 was the first year I had no backoffs, if I am not mistaken. I did play less, but still zero incidences.

The airport here in Vegas started using facial recognition several years back and I have read they have had some success IDing some criminals and undesirables.

I had it happen to me only once. I was dragged rather forcefully and like kj thrown into a chair. I was not knowledgeable about my rights as i was not an AP or a pro and this was many years ago. As they started grilling me the only thing i could think to do was fake a heart attack and slump out of the chair to the ground. They bought it and i was taken out on a stretcher to an ambulance and to a hospital.

I called the gm who i knew very well and he told me i couldnt play craps there anynore.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I agree with everything you wrote here with the exception of the "loud" part. Getting loud and yelling only gets testosterone flowing and escalates things. You really want to de-escalate.

For people like AccountinQuestion asking "how they illegally detained me"? When you are surrounded by security and management, who have the authority to detain a person (when a crime is committed), and one of them has hold of your arm....you are detained. If you try to fight them off and run away, you are opening up a whole other can of worms and possibilities.

And if you have actually done nothing wrong or illegal, such a detention is illegal and an abuse of power.

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Well being detained can be many things. When dealing with cops it has a specific legal definition. Ok, so the guy grabbed your arm and you did nothing but went to the backroom with him.

What do you think pissed off the security guard so much he threw you into the chair?

I don't think getting loud necessarily escalates thing. THere is loud directed at them and loud directed at other patrons. (help! help!) Of course it is semi-random how they respond etc.

Druff's story is also interesting. I'd love to know what sort of gambling he did to generate the freeplay. Had he played freeplay there recently leading up to this?

I thought we seen all your attention-grabbing tricks in the past but this one takes the cake so far.

Kewlj, if you don't want to sue, at least make the Casino Staff pay your medical bills for fracturing your arm. You have them throwing you roughly into a chair which caused you to fracture your arm. You seem to have a solid case for at least getting your medical bills paid by the Casino Staff who attacked you(Throwing someone into a chair is physical assault, especially someone who wasn't even resisting!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIwRqBCjqR4

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Originally Posted by monet

I thought we seen all your attention-grabbing tricks in the past but this one takes the cake so far.

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Guards better not try the exit block trick on Ozzy - he could throw them out of the way like rag dolls.

I don't know anyone that's ever had anything (other than a finger) fractured(That's huge for you monetarily). If you have medical records of a fracture and everything went down how you explained, you're a fool not to sue. There's no reason to go to the press or make it super public. This isn't just a personal library case etc. This is a personal injury case as well.

I don't know why you think suing would cost you more EV than you could earn. The damage is done, they have whatever information they need and they are going to do whatever they are going to do regardless if you sue or not. You act like it either continue to play Black Jack and refuse to sue, or sue and never play Black Jack.

What's the EV of a boosted bankroll?

You don't know how long it would take they might just be willing to settle without much fight. They have to know they are totally fucked, given the evidence and circumstances.

You're basically giving them a free pass with practically the same consequences either way.

Something doesn't smell right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

I thought we seen all your attention-grabbing tricks in the past but this one takes the cake so far.

---

Guards better not try the exit block trick on Ozzy - he could throw them out of the way like rag dolls.

---

+1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I don't know anyone that's ever had anything (other than a finger) fractured(That's huge for you monetarily). If you have medical records of a fracture and everything went down how you explained, you're a fool not to sue. There's no reason to go to the press or make it super public. This isn't just a personal library case etc. This is a personal injury case as well.

I don't know why you think suing would cost you more EV than you could earn. The damage is done, they have whatever information they need and they are going to do whatever they are going to do regardless if you sue or not. You act like it either continue to play Black Jack and refuse to sue, or sue and never play Black Jack.

What's the EV of a boosted bankroll?

You don't know how long it would take they might just be willing to settle without much fight. They have to know they are totally fucked, given the evidence and circumstances.

You're basically giving them a free pass with practically the same consequences either way.

Something doesn't smell right.

---

Attention seeking Kew is at it again. There is something foul smelling and amiss about this whole scenario. I agree with AlexW. If this went down anywhere near the way you described, you're in for a decent payday in a relatively small period of time. No brainer IF you're telling the whole truth.

Something doesn't smell right because kew is getting caught in yet another stupid, not-well-crafted lie again. There is something seriously wrong with him, as if everyone doesn't already know.

Kew drew this one up for one reason only: he saw that I had time to post again, that didn't sit right with him, so he needed to do something about it in order to get the attention meter back over to favoring him.

There's more holes in this sensational story than when he lied about his own death. And since kew likes to draw strength from Dan's personal beliefs about others, let's see if he can figure out that Dan's post here screams "I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD YOU'VE SAID".

Kew never says why he was supposedly "taken into the back room" nor does he explain why he was shoved into a chair there supposedly "fracturing his arm". So he "took an ambulance", "filed a police report" and "met with his speed-dial pal Bob Nersesian"....all while South Point simply and very quickly handed over the "video evidence" out of the kindness of their heart without a subpoena, and while kew was deciding not to pursue suing?

Kew didn't think this lie out very well. Police reports are public records. And since as kew says all the time "everybody knows his real name" we could expect to see this report right here in short order.

Kew claims to be an "advantage player". Simply said, anyone who chooses that type of life does not limit it to advantage gambling. EVERYTHING these people do in life is from the point of an advantage. A "fractured arm" caused by a casino tough guy followed up by a ride to the hospital in an ambulance WITH A GAY FAIRY AS THE VICTIM!? Tell me he--the penultimate victim across the board--wouldn't JUMP at the chance to make a bundle in a lawsuit over this like white on rice.

So why isn't he suing--even when his "good friend Nersesian" is already on this like Inspector Gadget? I mean, who or what gay man runs to an attorney after taking an ambulance for a broken arm :) just to have a good talk?

Maybe now, the last few of you who have always wanted to believe this phony when all he does is lie and concoct things about himself and those who have him perfectly pegged, will see the light.

I love the smell of urine in the morning.

Hey Ron is back! :D That smell of urine in the morning is just your diaper Singer. Hopefully for your sake one of your kids babysitting you up in S.D. will be in to change it soon.

Rob and his new bestie Mdog have been pulling their hair out over at GF for the last 24 hours, throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the wall to see if anything sticks. Both have even quoted seedvalue and his ridiculous nonsense. That is how desperate they are. :D I told Rob that I wouldn't respond at that forum as there is just no body there worth a damn. Rob, Mdawg, and a couple other baccarat system players, with all the nonsense that goes with baccarat system players.

One baccarat knucklehead from Australia presumed to tell me how blackjack and Las Vegas works, and then stated he has never played blackjack, never been to Las Vegas and couldn't even find Las Vegas on a Map of the U.S. when he tried. That is what you are dealing with over there, plus of course Robbie and Mdoggie. So I announced I would not respond to any one of them over there and low and behold here is Rob. 4th time he has followed me there, crawled back here when I stopped paying attention to him, followed me there again, and now crawled back here again. Who is it that owns who Rob? :confused:

THAT in itself makes sharing this story, which I was on the fence about worth it 100 times over. :cool:

I am not going to spend a second day on this. I shared the experience and my decision not to pursue anything. I have my reasons. For the last 3 years, things have not been super easy as far as my blackjack play part of my advantage playing.

Covid year (2020) I obviously played less and ended with my worse blackjack results since I was red chipping back in Atlantic City, my first couple years. 2021 was one of my better years, but a couple entries into the database late in the year put a damper on that. 2022, I had to lay low and played 50% less and made about 1/3 less than I have averaged.

This year I am off to a great start. Had my best single day ever recently and was already 2 times above EV even before that. The very last thing I want to do, is have to lay low for an extended period while legal action progresses. Although I would like to hold someone accountable, I am just not willing to put myself through that.

But this is it for me. I am just not going to keep repeating the same comments while the trolls and haters do their thing. I have shared the experience and am moving on.

Now allow me to continue on with Rob, because it is such good fun. :)

2 days ago Rob announced that he had a real estate friend in Las Vegas, that says that my condo is subleased to 3 people. First hasn't Rob already played the real estate friend card a few years ago when Dan Druff busted him on this forum for using a sockpuppet, girlfriday who claimed to be a real estate agent to dispute property ownership by AP's? That ploy failed miserably:D. I suppose there could be a sublease to 3 people in the complex. We get some Poker players that sublease during the poker tournaments every year in this building. But it is not me. Our unit is owned by my brother and I (no 3rd person). But more likely than not, ALL of that real estate agent claim is made up. THAT is Robbie. :rolleyes:

Today, Rob says he will have his FBI brother-in-law or son-in-law look for a recent police report. Go for it Rob. Rob and his secret Agent this and that, and FBI family members. :)

Additionally, a couple days ago, Rob finally named the casino that he claims he won a 1.5 million dollar video poker jackpot last summer. He says it was Resorts World here in Vegas. I wasted 30 seconds sending an email to Resorts World and received a reply back that was a negative on this. Don't take my word for it. I encourage everyone to send an email to Resorts World inquiring. See for yourself. Of course Rob will tell us something like the lady responding isn't authorized to say anything because like everything with Rob this jackpot, was double top secret. :D

One thing Ozzy is right about....the Singer Bullshit never ends. Ron is the energizer bunny of gambling forum trolls.

Oh and Rob, stop pulling your hair out over me. You really have none to spare. :cool:

Four non-dupe posts in a row. Probably not a first, and surely not a last, but an impressive accomplishment nonetheless.

Any thoughts Ozzy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Four non-dupe posts in a row. Probably not a first, and surely not a last, but an impressive accomplishment nonetheless.

Any thoughts Ozzy?

---

Smurgy, I intentionally broke up the posts so as not to write half a book. Your welcome. :) I also wanted to separate out my one serious post from my "playing" with Ron.

As for Ozzy, if he was objective he would have to admit that KidKewl lands a flurry here in the 6th round that staggers the old troll against the ropes. I think I may have even knocked one of those troll worts off. But don't hold your breath on Ozzy being fair and objective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Four non-dupe posts in a row. Probably not a first, and surely not a last, but an impressive accomplishment nonetheless.

Any thoughts Ozzy?

---

Smurgy, I intentionally broke up the posts so as not to write half a book. Your welcome. :) I also wanted to separate out my one serious post from my "playing" with Ron.

As for Ozzy, if he was objective he would have to admit that KidKewl lands a flurry here in the 6th round that staggers the old troll against the ropes. I think I may have even knocked one of those troll worts off. But don't hold your breath on Ozzy being fair and objective.

---

Ranting on about every little nuance of Rob's bullshit doesn't really do much. You need to make people at least smirk. Rob has been disproven so many times no one gives a shit about your pedantic pointing it out.

You ignored my question - What did you do to escalate this to the point where the security guard felt the need to exert so much force ? You skipped out the most interesting details.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Four non-dupe posts in a row. Probably not a first, and surely not a last, but an impressive accomplishment nonetheless.

Any thoughts Ozzy?

---

Smurgy, I intentionally broke up the posts so as not to write half a book. Your welcome. :) I also wanted to separate out my one serious post from my "playing" with Ron.

As for Ozzy, if he was objective he would have to admit that KidKewl lands a flurry here in the 6th round that staggers the old troll against the ropes. I think I may have even knocked one of those troll worts off. But don't hold your breath on Ozzy being fair and objective.

---

Ranting on about every little nuance of Rob's bullshit doesn't really do much. You need to make people at least smirk. Rob has been disproven so many times no one gives a shit about your pedantic pointing it out.

You ignored my question - What did you do to escalate this to the point where the security guard felt the need to exert so much force ? You skipped out the most interesting details.

---

Dude, it is alright for Rob to troll me, on and on at multiple forums but when I return fire, I am the bad guy? Plus Rob's efforts now are not even new. He is recycling stuff, like the real estate agent. Rob's trolling is now like watching a re-run of a bad TV show from the 70's. Of course with his dementia, it could all be new to him again. :rolleyes:

I don't know what escalated anything. I don't know what even lead to this situation. I wasn't winning much at the time. Hadn't even shown my spread, so whatever the trigger was probably wasn't on this trip and that is a bit of a concern. But I have no way of knowing.

I don't know exactly what your history is concerning blackjack card counting, so I will just tell you. Casinos never tell you why they are taking any action. If you ask why you are being backed off or 86ed, they will always say something like "management decision". They will never say something like, because you are counting cards. About the closest you will get is something like "your game is too strong" or "you are too good a player". So you are never going to get a precise reason for anything.

Please don't ask or expect me to know what the security guy was about. He was a young, hispanic, "big" dude. I would say fat, but suppose he thinks he is "built". I think feeling brutish, he just gave me a shove. And because I wasn't expecting it, it threw me off balance and I hit my arm on the desk. He was just $10/an hour security punk with no real power abusing what little power he thinks he has. Other than that, I can't even guess what he was thinking.

I have actually had run-ins with this same $10/an hour security crew before, 4 or 5 years ago after a back off when a bicycle security guard chased me completely off property after a back off. The back off was actually a "no more blackjack" back off. Didn't say I had to leave the property or anything. But I did. I walked out the front door and was standing there waiting for my partner when the bicycle security punk, rode up telling me I had to leave the property and actually escorted me off, to the south, while I crossed the street to the timeshare location. I think it is a case of this location is using low paid, poorly trained (if at all) security punks in uniform.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am not going to spend a second day on this. I shared the experience and my decision not to pursue anything. I have my reasons. For the last 3 years, things have not been super easy as far as my blackjack play part of my advantage playing.

Covid year (2020) I obviously played less and ended with my worse blackjack results since I was red chipping back in Atlantic City, my first couple years. 2021 was one of my better years, but a couple entries into the database late in the year put a damper on that. 2022, I had to lay low and played 50% less and made about 1/3 less than I have averaged.

This year I am off to a great start. Had my best single day ever recently and was already 2 times above EV even before that. The very last thing I want to do, is have to lay low for an extended period while legal action progresses. Although I would like to hold someone accountable, I am just not willing to put myself through that.

But this is it for me. I am just not going to keep repeating the same comments while the trolls and haters do their thing. I have shared the experience and am moving on.

---

Translation: you know everybody knows you got caught concocting another whopper, for sheer attention. Continuing to talk about it only digs your hole deeper.

Here's more bad news: Going back 4 weeks, there are no police reports filed in your name with Metro. Confirmed by my nephew several hours ago.

Kew, you've even stunned jbjb into silence with this one.

Wise up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Smurgy, I intentionally broke up the posts so as not to write half a book. Your welcome. :) I also wanted to separate out my one serious post from my "playing" with Ron.

As for Ozzy, if he was objective he would have to admit that KidKewl lands a flurry here in the 6th round that staggers the old troll against the ropes. I think I may have even knocked one of those troll worts off. But don't hold your breath on Ozzy being fair and objective.

---

Ranting on about every little nuance of Rob's bullshit doesn't really do much. You need to make people at least smirk. Rob has been disproven so many times no one gives a shit about your pedantic pointing it out.

You ignored my question - What did you do to escalate this to the point where the security guard felt the need to exert so much force ? You skipped out the most interesting details.

---

Dude, it is alright for Rob to troll me, on and on at multiple forums but when I return fire, I am the bad guy? Plus Rob's efforts now are not even new. He is recycling stuff, like the real estate agent. Rob's trolling is now like watching a re-run of a bad TV show from the 70's. Of course with his dementia, it could all be new to him again. :rolleyes:

I don't know what escalated anything. I don't know what even lead to this situation. I wasn't winning much at the time. Hadn't even shown my spread, so whatever the trigger was probably wasn't on this trip and that is a bit of a concern. But I have no way of knowing.

I don't know exactly what your history is concerning blackjack card counting, so I will just tell you. Casinos never tell you why they are taking any action. If you ask why you are being backed off or 86ed, they will always say something like "management decision". They will never say something like, because you are counting cards. About the closest you will get is something like "your game is too strong" or "you are too good a player". So you are never going to get a precise reason for anything.

Please don't ask or expect me to know what the security guy was about. He was a young, hispanic, "big" dude. I would say fat, but suppose he thinks he is "built". I think feeling brutish, he just gave me a shove. And because I wasn't expecting it, it threw me off balance and I hit my arm on the desk. He was just $10/an hour security punk with no real power abusing what little power he thinks he has. Other than that, I can't even guess what he was thinking.

I have actually had run-ins with this same $10/an hour security crew before, 4 or 5 years ago after a back off when a bicycle security guard chased me completely off property after a back off. The back off was actually a "no more blackjack" back off. Didn't say I had to leave the property or anything. But I did. I walked out the front door and was standing there waiting for my partner when the bicycle security punk, rode up telling me I had to leave the property and actually escorted me off, to the south, while I crossed the street to the timeshare location. I think it is a case of this location is using low paid, poorly trained (if at all) security punks in uniform.

---

"I AM NOT GOING TO SPEND A SECOND DAY ON THIS LIE"
:) :) ;) :) :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am not going to spend a second day on this. I shared the experience and my decision not to pursue anything. I have my reasons. For the last 3 years, things have not been super easy as far as my blackjack play part of my advantage playing.

Covid year (2020) I obviously played less and ended with my worse blackjack results since I was red chipping back in Atlantic City, my first couple years. 2021 was one of my better years, but a couple entries into the database late in the year put a damper on that. 2022, I had to lay low and played 50% less and made about 1/3 less than I have averaged.

This year I am off to a great start. Had my best single day ever recently and was already 2 times above EV even before that. The very last thing I want to do, is have to lay low for an extended period while legal action progresses. Although I would like to hold someone accountable, I am just not willing to put myself through that.

But this is it for me. I am just not going to keep repeating the same comments while the trolls and haters do their thing. I have shared the experience and am moving on.

---

Translation: you know everybody knows you got caught concocting another whopper, for sheer attention. Continuing to talk about it only digs your hole deeper.

Here's more bad news: Going back 4 weeks, there are no police reports filed in your name with Metro. Confirmed by my nephew several hours ago.

Kew, you've even stunned jbjb into silence with this one.

Wise up.

---

Yeah right. If you know my name it is only because Mdog told you. He used an investigator to find out. But I doubt as of this second you even know. You might ask him now, but there was no nephew confirming anything. What next, you had your Israeli counter intelligence friends look into it? You are just lame old fella. I know you have your fans that find you funny. But you are just retarded. 73 year old man behaving like an idiot and fool. I am seriously embarrassed for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Rob has been disproven so many times no one gives a shit about your pedantic pointing it out.

---

Do you see this line Rob? Sure it is a shot at me for continuing to toy with you, but do you see what it says about you? THAT is how everyone feels. You are just an amusing punch line now. You are the village idiot from Monty Python. It is just that like most others, I haven't gotten to the point that I can't be bothered yet. I still enjoy fucking with you. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Smurgy, I intentionally broke up the posts so as not to write half a book. Your welcome. :) I also wanted to separate out my one serious post from my "playing" with Ron.

As for Ozzy, if he was objective he would have to admit that KidKewl lands a flurry here in the 6th round that staggers the old troll against the ropes. I think I may have even knocked one of those troll worts off. But don't hold your breath on Ozzy being fair and objective.

---

Ranting on about every little nuance of Rob's bullshit doesn't really do much. You need to make people at least smirk. Rob has been disproven so many times no one gives a shit about your pedantic pointing it out.

You ignored my question - What did you do to escalate this to the point where the security guard felt the need to exert so much force ? You skipped out the most interesting details.

---

Dude, it is alright for Rob to troll me, on and on at multiple forums but when I return fire, I am the bad guy? Plus Rob's efforts now are not even new. He is recycling stuff, like the real estate agent. Rob's trolling is now like watching a re-run of a bad TV show from the 70's. Of course with his dementia, it could all be new to him again. :rolleyes:

I don't know what escalated anything. I don't know what even lead to this situation. I wasn't winning much at the time. Hadn't even shown my spread, so whatever the trigger was probably wasn't on this trip and that is a bit of a concern. But I have no way of knowing.

I don't know exactly what your history is concerning blackjack card counting, so I will just tell you. Casinos never tell you why they are taking any action. If you ask why you are being backed off or 86ed, they will always say something like "management decision". They will never say something like, because you are counting cards. About the closest you will get is something like "your game is too strong" or "you are too good a player". So you are never going to get a precise reason for anything.

Please don't ask or expect me to know what the security guy was about. He was a young, hispanic, "big" dude. I would say fat, but suppose he thinks he is "built". I think feeling brutish, he just gave me a shove. And because I wasn't expecting it, it threw me off balance and I hit my arm on the desk. He was just $10/an hour security punk with no real power abusing what little power he thinks he has. Other than that, I can't even guess what he was thinking.

I have actually had run-ins with this same $10/an hour security crew before, 4 or 5 years ago after a back off when a bicycle security guard chased me completely off property after a back off. The back off was actually a "no more blackjack" back off. Didn't say I had to leave the property or anything. But I did. I walked out the front door and was standing there waiting for my partner when the bicycle security punk, rode up telling me I had to leave the property and actually escorted me off, to the south, while I crossed the street to the timeshare location. I think it is a case of this location is using low paid, poorly trained (if at all) security punks in uniform.

---

I never said you are a bad guy. What I am saying is that you're not very effective trolling Rob. He winds you up you don't wind him up. This is what provides humor.

Still seems like something would have happened for the guy to "shove" you. I don't think they are trained to do this - infact it is likely the opposite given the liability issues when having your security people do such things. Oh well, you answered my question. Thank you.

Quote:

---

You are the village idiot from Monty Python.

---

No, he isn't.

I still can't figure out if Rob intends for people to believe half his shit or not. He does it in such a funny way it doesn't matter much. He might just be doing it to wind up the whole forum because CLEARLY he likes doing that with you. In general he is too well spoken to be so goofy to think people would buy-in to his BS.

You also provide entertainment Kewl. You are an almost as important character as our dear Rob but hard to believe you'll ever surpass him while he is still alive and typing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Still seems like something would have happened for the guy to "shove" you. I don't think they are trained to do this - infact it is likely the opposite given the liability issues when having your security people do such things. Oh well, you answered my question. Thank you.

---

No offense intended, AinQ, but I really am not familiar with just what your status as an AP is. I think I remember you saying you don't AP for a living, which is fine. Can I ask how serious or often you play....whatever it is that you play? I ask because it seems like you are just not familiar with the $10-$12 and hour security people at casinos that seem to think they are more than they are. Maybe it is different where you live and play.

Sands in Pa, now Wind Creek I think used to have visibly disabled people in uniform working security. I remember one 50 year old woman, holding her arm and walking in a way that looked like she had a stroke. Many are overweight. Many are police rejects...literally. I had an incident at Valley Forge Casino (prior to it becoming a Boyd Property) where a young dude in a security uniform, who looked to be about 15, was assigned to follow me around the property. While I obviously couldn't play blackjack, I toyed with him for an hour, moving from machine to machine, playing almost nothing. At one point I went to the men's room and when I came out he was leaning against the wall on his cell phone. I had to say "Yo, come on let's go" and let him where ever I was going next. :D

There are some casinos that take security seriously and I hope train them properly, but most casinos, are using unqualified, low paid people and training them poorly if at all. Or at least that has been my experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am not going to spend a second day on this. I shared the experience and my decision not to pursue anything. I have my reasons. For the last 3 years, things have not been super easy as far as my blackjack play part of my advantage playing.

Covid year (2020) I obviously played less and ended with my worse blackjack results since I was red chipping back in Atlantic City, my first couple years. 2021 was one of my better years, but a couple entries into the database late in the year put a damper on that. 2022, I had to lay low and played 50% less and made about 1/3 less than I have averaged.

This year I am off to a great start. Had my best single day ever recently and was already 2 times above EV even before that. The very last thing I want to do, is have to lay low for an extended period while legal action progresses. Although I would like to hold someone accountable, I am just not willing to put myself through that.

But this is it for me. I am just not going to keep repeating the same comments while the trolls and haters do their thing. I have shared the experience and am moving on.

---

Translation: you know everybody knows you got caught concocting another whopper, for sheer attention. Continuing to talk about it only digs your hole deeper.

Here's more bad news: Going back 4 weeks, there are no police reports filed in your name with Metro. Confirmed by my nephew several hours ago.

Kew, you've even stunned jbjb into silence with this one.

Wise up.

---

Yeah right. If you know my name it is only because Mdog told you. He used an investigator to find out. But I doubt as of this second you even know. You might ask him now, but there was no nephew confirming anything. What next, you had your Israeli counter intelligence friends look into it? You are just lame old fella. I know you have your fans that find you funny. But you are just retarded. 73 year old man behaving like an idiot and fool. I am seriously embarrassed for you.

---

Translation: you'll never admit to your lie, so you deny.

I know....and you lied about the report.

This hurt you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Still seems like something would have happened for the guy to "shove" you. I don't think they are trained to do this - infact it is likely the opposite given the liability issues when having your security people do such things. Oh well, you answered my question. Thank you.

---

No offense intended, AinQ, but I really am not familiar with just what your status as an AP is. I think I remember you saying you don't AP for a living, which is fine. Can I ask how serious or often you play....whatever it is that you play? I ask because it seems like you are just not familiar with the $10-$12 and hour security people at casinos that seem to think they are more than they are. Maybe it is different where you live and play.

Sands in Pa, now Wind Creek I think used to have visibly disabled people in uniform working security. I remember one 50 year old woman, holding her arm and walking in a way that looked like she had a stroke. Many are overweight. Many are police rejects...literally. I had an incident at Valley Forge Casino (prior to it becoming a Boyd Property) where a young dude in a security uniform, who looked to be about 15, was assigned to follow me around the property. While I obviously couldn't play blackjack, I toyed with him for an hour, moving from machine to machine, playing almost nothing. At one point I went to the men's room and when I came out he was leaning against the wall on his cell phone. I had to say "Yo, come on let's go" and let him where ever I was going next. :D

There are some casinos that take security seriously and I hope train them properly, but most casinos, are using unqualified people and training them poorly if at all. Or at least that has been my experience.

---

$10-$12 security guards are all over. I've dealt with many a security guard. Yes, some of them get out of control (not with me) but if the guy is shoving you for no reason it is unlikely he would remain employed at the casino. My history as an AP has little to do with it. The backoffs are well documented on both video and written about. You're not telling many APs what they don't already know.

To think $10-$12 security guards at casinos are different from security guards all over is just silly.

Perhaps with the job market they have to take what they get and just keep a loose cannon on staff... who knows or maybe that was his first time. Regardless it seems like you had to have done something.

I had a run-in with a security guard at a casino. I was literally in the process of being 86'd when I talked him a bit and he changed his mind. The guy who wanted me 86'd simply didn't have the authority. The security guards themselves were quite nice relatively speaking. They were quite stern at first but I somehow won them over. (or at least the head dude)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Translation: you'll never admit to your lie, so you deny.

I know....and you lied about the report.

This hurt you

---

Come on Rob. You can do better than this. Don't you have some nephew or son in-law that is a double secret agent that can look into the casino in question. What about one of your other "connections" here in Vegas? Maybe one of your made up real estate friends is a part-time dealer? Shirley you can come up with something?

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Still seems like something would have happened for the guy to "shove" you. I don't think they are trained to do this - infact it is likely the opposite given the liability issues when having your security people do such things. Oh well, you answered my question. Thank you.

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No offense intended, AinQ, but I really am not familiar with just what your status as an AP is. I think I remember you saying you don't AP for a living, which is fine. Can I ask how serious or often you play....whatever it is that you play? I ask because it seems like you are just not familiar with the $10-$12 and hour security people at casinos that seem to think they are more than they are. Maybe it is different where you live and play.

Sands in Pa, now Wind Creek I think used to have visibly disabled people in uniform working security. I remember one 50 year old woman, holding her arm and walking in a way that looked like she had a stroke. Many are overweight. Many are police rejects...literally. I had an incident at Valley Forge Casino (prior to it becoming a Boyd Property) where a young dude in a security uniform, who looked to be about 15, was assigned to follow me around the property. While I obviously couldn't play blackjack, I toyed with him for an hour, moving from machine to machine, playing almost nothing. At one point I went to the men's room and when I came out he was leaning against the wall on his cell phone. I had to say "Yo, come on let's go" and let him where ever I was going next. :D

There are some casinos that take security seriously and I hope train them properly, but most casinos, are using unqualified people and training them poorly if at all. Or at least that has been my experience.

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$10-$12 security guards are all over. I've dealt with many a security guard. Yes, some of them get out of control (not with me) but if the guy is shoving you for no reason it is unlikely he would remain employed at the casino. My history as an AP has little to do with it. The backoffs are well documented on both video and written about. You're not telling many APs what they don't already know.

To think $10-$12 security guards at casinos are different from security guards all over is just silly.

Perhaps with the job market they have to take what they get and just keep a loose cannon on staff... who knows or maybe that was his first time. Regardless it seems like you had to have done something.

I had a run-in with a security guard at a casino. I was literally in the process of being 86'd when I talked him a bit and he changed his mind. The guy who wanted me 86'd simply didn't have the authority. The security guards themselves were quite nice relatively speaking. They were quite stern at first but I somehow won them over. (or at least the head dude)

---

I hope you are correct that this particular guy was let go that night. I would take pleasure in that. Probably not, but I hope so.

I am not trying to tell any APs anything they don't know. I simply shared an experience as a reminder that why these kinds of things occur less frequently than they used to, apparently the era of casino stupidity isn't completely over. As we can see from comments from various players, including you, many of us, almost any real player that plays enough, will have some kind of incident. (well, except the guy that claims casino staff pats him on the back and tells him he is the best ever :rolleyes:)

I like to think every experience has something that can be learned from. In this case, I was a little complacent. I didn't notice the issue coming before it was already there. That is my mistake. So that is a good reminder. Also I like to have a general idea of how I will handle certain situations when they arise. In hindsight, I would do things differently. Once I stepped away from the table, and they made it clear I was heading off the floor, I should have pulled my phone out immediately and called my attorney. I should have made them physically stop me from making a phone call, which would indicate I was under arrest or being held. I requested that I wanted to call my attorney. I should have just done it. Again, complacency and 20 years of never being back-roomed made me think these kinds of things were a thing of the past and I guess just caught me off guard. That is why I had an interest in sharing this experience.

I see no need whatsoever for KJ to rush to the courthouse to sue Sweat point.

He talked to Bob and the attorney did what is needed to preserve the video of the backrooming; whether the casino will actually do so, and whether it won't be "lost" remains to be seen; candidly I don't know how these sort of evidentiary things play out in Sin City without a lawsuit being filed and a formal discovery request being made.

Nevada has a two year stature of limitations for personal injury actions to be filed.

It is still my suggestion that KJ bring a claim against Sweat Point but there is no need to hurry in order to do so; rather let him continue his normal play and see if the heat in the local casinos changes, then decide.

Finally, KJ need not file a suit to collect a payday; often a demand letter will suffice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I see no need whatsoever for KJ to rush to the courthouse to sue Sweat point.

He talked to Bob and the attorney did what is needed to preserve the video of the backrooming; whether the casino will actually do so, and whether it won't be "lost" remains to be seen; candidly I don't know how these sort of evidentiary things play out in Sin City without a lawsuit being filed and a formal discovery request being made.

Nevada has a two year stature of limitations for personal injury actions to be filed.

It is still my suggestion that KJ bring a claim against Sweat Point but there is no need to hurry in order to do so; rather let him continue his normal play and see if the heat in the local casinos changes, then decide.

Finally, KJ need not file a suit to collect a payday; often a demand letter will suffice.

---

Interesting MrV. If I was to pursue something, which I am not, my interest would have been more in the casino abuse angle than personal injury. I understand they would be connected. But one of the big issues for me, was in my sit down with attorney, he laid out how the case would go. He knows me, and what I am about, and his words were "this isn't something you can do anonymously". He went on to explain, the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations. He said something along the lines of "that is how we would bring them to their knees".

That just doesn't work for me right now. I mean maybe if I thought there could be a several hundred thousand dollar payday. But for years of publicity and probably a settlement of 100k neighborhood or less, and then less attorney fees and taxes, that is just a no go for me, regardless of how I would love to hold casino and individual parties accountable.

Now I am off to a lunch date with Mom.

I need to correct my above post.

At the time I posted I wasn't aware of the fact that KJ said Bob already got and that KJ reviewed the tape.

Sorry for missing that salient detail: mea culpa.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I see no need whatsoever for KJ to rush to the courthouse to sue Sweat point.

He talked to Bob and the attorney did what is needed to preserve the video of the backrooming; whether the casino will actually do so, and whether it won't be "lost" remains to be seen; candidly I don't know how these sort of evidentiary things play out in Sin City without a lawsuit being filed and a formal discovery request being made.

Nevada has a two year stature of limitations for personal injury actions to be filed.

It is still my suggestion that KJ bring a claim against Sweat Point but there is no need to hurry in order to do so; rather let him continue his normal play and see if the heat in the local casinos changes, then decide.

Finally, KJ need not file a suit to collect a payday; often a demand letter will suffice.

---

Interesting MrV. If I was to pursue something, which I am not, my interest would have been more in the casino abuse angle than personal injury. I understand they would be connected. But one of the big issues for me, was in my sit down with attorney, he laid out how the case would go. He knows me, and what I am about, and his words were "this isn't something you can do anonymously". He went on to explain, the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations. He said something along the lines of "that is how we would bring them to their knees".

That just doesn't work for me right now. I mean maybe if I thought there could be a several hundred thousand dollar payday. But for years of publicity and probably a settlement of 100k neighborhood or less, and then less attorney fees and taxes, that is just a no go for me, regardless of how I would love to hold casino and individual parties accountable.

Now I am off to a lunch date with Mom.

---

Yeah right.....probably to "bring her to her knees" too. :)

You'll notice MrV says nothing about how the casino instantly sent Nersesian this video that supposedly has very incriminating evidence within. Is that the new norm today V---where perpetrators just do this? And even though we now know kew lied about filing a police report, you think they'd have nothing to say about this truly genius move? The ambulance angle didn't help either. Care to comment?

Oh wait---kew's not going to discuss this a second day. He's finished with it!!!

MrV, I read your concerns at GF. I don't want to post there, especially this discussion. I posted it here and will discuss it here. I just don't think much of that forum to engage in any meaning ful discussion. Trolling, sure. And I will make this quick because I am on my way out for a bit.

I don't know how discovery and stuff like that works. I will ask next time I speak to my attorney. What I do know is he immediately said he would get the video. I think there was a reference to needing a judge to sign off or order it or something but am not sure how that goes. I actually thought he wanted to see the video to be sure we had a case before going forward.

But at any rate the following week, he had a download of the backroom portion of the incident. I don't know whether he had the casino floor portion or not. I didn't see that. Again, I don't know how that works, I am just sharing what happened.

Why even have an attorney if not for a case like this?

Thanks for the clarification about the video, KJ.

I suspect Bob has enough clout in Sin City to cut through the bullshit.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Why even have an attorney if not for a case like this?

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Isn't it bob nersian? Isn't that all you need to know?

He represented Billy Walters.

Also - why would ozzy deal with security guards in such a manner? Ju jitsu ?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

MrV, I read your concerns at GF. I don't want to post there, especially this discussion. I posted it here and will discuss it here. I just don't think much of that forum to engage in any meaning ful discussion. Trolling, sure. And I will make this quick because I am on my way out for a bit.

I don't know how discovery and stuff like that works. I will ask next time I speak to my attorney. What I do know is he immediately said he would get the video. I think there was a reference to needing a judge to sign off or order it or something but am not sure how that goes. I actually thought he wanted to see the video to be sure we had a case before going forward.

But at any rate the following week, he had a download of the backroom portion of the incident. I don't know whether he had the casino floor portion or not. I didn't see that. Again, I don't know how that works, I am just sharing what happened.

---

He means the famous attorney he has on speed-dial V. And as you can see, the guy is readily available for a high roller like kew. No lawsuit required though. Personal injuries like a broken arm in a large casino's "back room" would net peanuts. He'd make 10 times that playing blackjack! :)

You also see him nervously walking back some of his first pass at this tale. Turns out comments on GF mean a bit more to him than he lets on. In time, his lies will seal his fate. And as we all can see, when the walls are closing in on him, he's always "on his way out the door" when everyone knows he looks at the forums on his phone every 3 minutes....just in case he needs to concoct another lie. Think of the fool next to you in traffic staring at his phone while driving. Aka....nervous poodles.

Watching the lying loser go down in his own flames. Kinda like watching him fake his own death. Stay tuned for fake death #2.

This is so much fun!

Next we'll hear of baby bro storming into the backroom and taking the fat spic and his colleagues out with kung fu!

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

MrV, I read your concerns at GF. I don't want to post there, especially this discussion. I posted it here and will discuss it here. I just don't think much of that forum to engage in any meaning ful discussion. Trolling, sure. And I will make this quick because I am on my way out for a bit.

I don't know how discovery and stuff like that works. I will ask next time I speak to my attorney. What I do know is he immediately said he would get the video. I think there was a reference to needing a judge to sign off or order it or something but am not sure how that goes. I actually thought he wanted to see the video to be sure we had a case before going forward.

But at any rate the following week, he had a download of the backroom portion of the incident. I don't know whether he had the casino floor portion or not. I didn't see that. Again, I don't know how that works, I am just sharing what happened.

---

He means the famous attorney he has on speed-dial V. And as you can see, the guy is readily available for a high roller like kew. No lawsuit required though. Personal injuries like a broken arm in a large casino's "back room" would net peanuts. He'd make 10 times that playing blackjack! :)

You also see him nervously walking back some of his first pass at this tale. Turns out comments on GF mean a bit more to him than he lets on. In time, his lies will seal his fate. And as we all can see, when the walls are closing in on him, he's always "on his way out the door" when everyone knows he looks at the forums on his phone every 3 minutes....just in case he needs to concoct another lie. Think of the fool next to you in traffic staring at his phone while driving. Aka....nervous poodles.

Watching the lying loser go down in his own flames. Kinda like watching him fake his own death. Stay tuned for fake death #2.

This is so much fun!

Next we'll hear of baby bro storming into the backroom and taking the fat spic and his colleagues out with kung fu!

---

If he would have just stated that the El Cortel broke his arm because he outed them and posted about their Cheating Chinese Shuffle Machines and Decks we might believe him, maybe. Didn't this Fag tell everyone that he actually bought one of those machines lol lol lol!?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I see no need whatsoever for KJ to rush to the courthouse to sue Sweat point.

He talked to Bob and the attorney did what is needed to preserve the video of the backrooming; whether the casino will actually do so, and whether it won't be "lost" remains to be seen; candidly I don't know how these sort of evidentiary things play out in Sin City without a lawsuit being filed and a formal discovery request being made.

Nevada has a two year stature of limitations for personal injury actions to be filed.

It is still my suggestion that KJ bring a claim against Sweat Point but there is no need to hurry in order to do so; rather let him continue his normal play and see if the heat in the local casinos changes, then decide.

Finally, KJ need not file a suit to collect a payday; often a demand letter will suffice.

---

Interesting MrV. If I was to pursue something, which I am not, my interest would have been more in the casino abuse angle than personal injury. I understand they would be connected. But one of the big issues for me, was in my sit down with attorney, he laid out how the case would go. He knows me, and what I am about, and his words were "this isn't something you can do anonymously". He went on to explain, the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations. He said something along the lines of "that is how we would bring them to their knees".

That just doesn't work for me right now. I mean maybe if I thought there could be a several hundred thousand dollar payday. But for years of publicity and probably a settlement of 100k neighborhood or less, and then less attorney fees and taxes, that is just a no go for me, regardless of how I would love to hold casino and individual parties accountable. Not that he wouldn't think of doing that given certain circumstances but it's never been a strategy brought up to me.

Now I am off to a lunch date with Mom.

---

When you say "My attorney" Are you in fact referring to Bob N? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO WITH "the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations" That's a suggestion, YOU are the client you can go with a different strategy. Out of the many backroom cases I know of personally most of them never involved any of that nonsense, most were all settled out of court "quickly" and quietly. Media attention is oftentimes motivated by the attorney's own desires and want for maximum value. I can't imagine you not getting 50k for yourself with a "quick" quiet settlement. For very little time.

Why even have Bob on speed dial if you're not going to pursue a lawsuit when situations arrive? The case you described doesn't get much better than that when it comes to back rooming cases.

FYI I have presented cases to Bob many times and not once has he ever said anything about the strategy would be to release all information and video to the news stations.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I see no need whatsoever for KJ to rush to the courthouse to sue Sweat point.

He talked to Bob and the attorney did what is needed to preserve the video of the backrooming; whether the casino will actually do so, and whether it won't be "lost" remains to be seen; candidly I don't know how these sort of evidentiary things play out in Sin City without a lawsuit being filed and a formal discovery request being made.

Nevada has a two year stature of limitations for personal injury actions to be filed.

It is still my suggestion that KJ bring a claim against Sweat Point but there is no need to hurry in order to do so; rather let him continue his normal play and see if the heat in the local casinos changes, then decide.

Finally, KJ need not file a suit to collect a payday; often a demand letter will suffice.

---

Interesting MrV. If I was to pursue something, which I am not, my interest would have been more in the casino abuse angle than personal injury. I understand they would be connected. But one of the big issues for me, was in my sit down with attorney, he laid out how the case would go. He knows me, and what I am about, and his words were "this isn't something you can do anonymously". He went on to explain, the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations. He said something along the lines of "that is how we would bring them to their knees".

That just doesn't work for me right now. I mean maybe if I thought there could be a several hundred thousand dollar payday. But for years of publicity and probably a settlement of 100k neighborhood or less, and then less attorney fees and taxes, that is just a no go for me, regardless of how I would love to hold casino and individual parties accountable. Not that he wouldn't think of doing that given certain circumstances but it's never been a strategy brought up to me.

Now I am off to a lunch date with Mom.

---

When you say "My attorney" Are you in fact referring to Bob N? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO WITH "the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations" That's a suggestion, YOU are the client you can go with a different strategy. Out of the many backroom cases I know of personally most of them never involved any of that nonsense, most were all settled out of court "quickly" and quietly. Media attention is oftentimes motivated by the attorney's own desires and want for maximum value. I can't imagine you not getting 50k for yourself with a "quick" quiet settlement. For very little time.

Why even have Bob on speed dial if you're not going to pursue a lawsuit when situations arrive? The case you described doesn't get much better than that when it comes to back rooming cases.

FYI I have presented cases to Bob many times and not once has he ever said anything about the strategy would be to release all information and video to the news stations.

---

Responding to common sense posts instead of to funny insults as a result of his lies, is not kew's strong suit.

It isn't a stretch to understand how anyone this would really happen to would have a big check in his hand in short order and with an agreement that no one share any of it anywhere, including between casinos.

Baby bro's karate skills are impressive though....

Big businesses such as casinos and TV networks do not relish negative publicity as it costs them money.

How much does it cost?

Fox News agreed to pay $787.5M to prevent Americans from learning / seeing what bullshit artists they really are, and how they've mind-fucked the sheeple.

But I digress...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Big businesses such as casinos and TV networks do not relish negative publicity as it costs them money.

How much does it cost?

Fox News agreed to pay $787.5M to prevent Americans from learning / seeing what bullshit artists they really are, and how they've mind-fucked the sheeple.

But I digress...

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There are also other angles.

Back when South Point just finished transitioning from South Coast (I think around 2007) a mutual AP friend of mine and axel's (Rick Radner) was thrown out of the casino and identified as an "undesirable" for allegedly being extremely rude to employees.

Rick loved playing there and lived nearby. He had multiple AP plays going down and really REALLY did not want to be banned. He turned to me as a GT columnist, and asked for my help. He claimed his argument with several employees over a malfunctioning machine was valid, and that his follow-on rudeness to a cocktail waitress was regrettable and he apologized. I met with casino mgmt. on his behalf. I told them he was sorry, they knew he lived nearby, and he gave them decent action. But the scenario changed when I said I'd put the entire episode in my next column. The ban was lifted within the next 24 hours.

This is how much these casinos do not want negative publicity.

Even a caveman knows kew's story, had it been real, would have netted him a bundle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I see no need whatsoever for KJ to rush to the courthouse to sue Sweat point.

He talked to Bob and the attorney did what is needed to preserve the video of the backrooming; whether the casino will actually do so, and whether it won't be "lost" remains to be seen; candidly I don't know how these sort of evidentiary things play out in Sin City without a lawsuit being filed and a formal discovery request being made.

Nevada has a two year stature of limitations for personal injury actions to be filed.

It is still my suggestion that KJ bring a claim against Sweat Point but there is no need to hurry in order to do so; rather let him continue his normal play and see if the heat in the local casinos changes, then decide.

Finally, KJ need not file a suit to collect a payday; often a demand letter will suffice.

---

Interesting MrV. If I was to pursue something, which I am not, my interest would have been more in the casino abuse angle than personal injury. I understand they would be connected. But one of the big issues for me, was in my sit down with attorney, he laid out how the case would go. He knows me, and what I am about, and his words were "this isn't something you can do anonymously". He went on to explain, the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations. He said something along the lines of "that is how we would bring them to their knees".

That just doesn't work for me right now. I mean maybe if I thought there could be a several hundred thousand dollar payday. But for years of publicity and probably a settlement of 100k neighborhood or less, and then less attorney fees and taxes, that is just a no go for me, regardless of how I would love to hold casino and individual parties accountable. Not that he wouldn't think of doing that given certain circumstances but it's never been a strategy brought up to me.

Now I am off to a lunch date with Mom.

---

When you say "My attorney" Are you in fact referring to Bob N? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO WITH "the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations" That's a suggestion, YOU are the client you can go with a different strategy. Out of the many backroom cases I know of personally most of them never involved any of that nonsense, most were all settled out of court "quickly" and quietly. Media attention is oftentimes motivated by the attorney's own desires and want for maximum value. I can't imagine you not getting 50k for yourself with a "quick" quiet settlement. For very little time.

Why even have Bob on speed dial if you're not going to pursue a lawsuit when situations arrive? The case you described doesn't get much better than that when it comes to back rooming cases.

FYI I have presented cases to Bob many times and not once has he ever said anything about the strategy would be to release all information and video to the news stations.

---

These are my questions, as well.

The whole thing seems bizarre to have an attorney to handle these situations, and then when a slam dunk one came up, KJ decided, "Nah, gotta maintain my anonymity."

And if anonymity was the concern, why not at least take it as far as you can without litigating, especially when the casino knows you have them by the balls?

Sorry but a lot of this doesn't add up. I have no problem with KJ and think he sometimes takes a lot more shit than he deserves, but this story is either incomplete, fabricated, or partially fabricated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

When you say "My attorney" Are you in fact referring to Bob N? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO WITH "the strategy would be to release all information and video to the new stations" That's a suggestion, YOU are the client you can go with a different strategy. Out of the many backroom cases I know of personally most of them never involved any of that nonsense, most were all settled out of court "quickly" and quietly. Media attention is oftentimes motivated by the attorney's own desires and want for maximum value. I can't imagine you not getting 50k for yourself with a "quick" quiet settlement. For very little time.

Why even have Bob on speed dial if you're not going to pursue a lawsuit when situations arrive? The case you described doesn't get much better than that when it comes to back rooming cases.

FYI I have presented cases to Bob many times and not once has he ever said anything about the strategy would be to release all information and video to the news stations.

---

I haven't used a name in referring to "my attorney", because several years when I did, some of the really sicko trolls, called and bugged him, as if he would ever tell them anything. Can you imagine people on a forum thinking they have a right to do that? :confused: But I have had people from forums show up at my home, so I guess nothing is beyond these sickos.

Axelwolf, you are making me consider....reconsidering. :D Not just you but, Druff, MrV, even mickey who I am more often than not at odds with these days. Basically a few people that I respect as opposed to the nit wits and trolls. My brother also wants me to pursue action and when I said at the very beginning, I almost feel like it is my responsibility to do so, to help stop this shit and stop it from happening to other players, he is at the top of that list that I would like to help stop it from ever happening to.

So I think I will think about it a little more, maybe have another conversation with parties that would be involved. So it is probably best for me to say no more right now.

One of the really great things about this is how discombobulated a couple of the hating trolls have become. Both throwing everything they can think of at the wall, desperately hoping somethings sticks. Singer even crawled back here again! Your welcome Ozzy! :D The other guy, you know the one.....the guy who was drugged and had his watch stolen by a prostitute, he too is beside himself. He said one of the things that proves this not true is that I didn't mention a cast on my arm. :D Seriously!!! You cannot make this stuff up. Did I really need to say that I have a cast on my broken arm? :rolleyes: Do I need to say each time I take a breath, or put on my socks as well? How completely nuts these guys are. Their hate consumes them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Sorry but a lot of this doesn't add up. I have no problem with KJ and think he sometimes takes a lot more shit than he deserves, but this story is either incomplete, fabricated, or partially fabricated.

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It isn't Dan Druff. But you are free to think what you like. I know Ron will appreciate it. :)

Besides that I believe this can harm my career, I am not a big lawsuit kind of guy. I was involved in legal action against a previous condo that was trying to force some of us out. That was a group thing. I don't think I have ever been involved in anything else. It just isn't my kind of thing generally. But whatever. Maybe this is a situation that requires something though.

If this story occurred as told, you should most definitely pursue this.

Also, you don't have to put out justification like, "I almost feel like it is my responsibility to do so, to help stop this shit and stop it from happening to other players."

Honestly that sounds bullshitty. You got your arm fractured and what you describe as an illegal detention. If this is all true, that's quite enough to want to sue for your own pocketbook. You don't need to do this one "for the people".

KewlJ, you and I have not been seeing eye to eye regarding other topics, but I'm not asking the following to pile on.

Why would you play there?

I can't fathom why you would try to count there.

And for the dumbasses in the audience, kewlJ will not pursue action because it's not in his best interest to pursue action. And his attorney likely knows that and agrees with him, all things considered.

Fools count cards where angels fear to tread.

In completely unrelated news, I'm having breakfast at South Point tomorrow. Anyone who wants to ask about EV or get a book, check out times in the sports betting section.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

If this story occurred as told, you should most definitely pursue this.

Also, you don't have to put out justification like, "I almost feel like it is my responsibility to do so, to help stop this shit and stop it from happening to other players."

Honestly that sounds bullshitty. You got your arm fractured and what you describe as an illegal detention. If this is all true, that's quite enough to want to sue for your own pocketbook. You don't need to do this one "for the people".

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I hope this doesn't offend you, but I think this is one of the big differences between you and I. Actually, many people and I. I don't look at every time I am wronged as an opportunity to sue someone and make money off of. THAT isn't how I want to make money. It really isn't. I am sure most won't believe this but if I was to win money in a lawsuit, any lawsuit, I am sure I would donate a significant amount away to causes and charities I support.

So I have a fractured bone in my arm. How much is that worth? 100k? more? :D

I am just playing, but honestly, I sort of feel like AP's and especially card counter type table game AP's, understand that this kind of thing was always a possibility. I am glad we are getting away from this type of thing occurring all but rarely now, But there are risks and things associated with this kind of a career choice. We know that going in. At least I hope everyone does.

KJ, did you talk with your attorney about him simply contacting Sweat Point and trying to negotiate a reasonable settlement without first filing a lawsuit?

Heck, if he has the video that is the crux of the case.

Again, as you know you have two years to file a lawsuit if it cannot be settled quietly.

Maybe I'm repeating myself, but with a broken arm and a video tape it would seem to be a "slam-dunk" case for your attorney.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

KewlJ, you and I have not been seeing eye to eye regarding other topics, but I'm not asking the following to pile on.

Why would you play there?

I can't fathom why you would try to count there.

And for the dumbasses in the audience, kewlJ will not pursue action because it's not in his best interest to pursue action. And his attorney likely knows that and agrees with him, all things considered.

Fools count cards where angels fear to tread.

In completely unrelated news, I'm having breakfast at South Point tomorrow. Anyone who wants to ask about EV or get a book, check out times in the sports betting section.

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Redietz, if you see a big (fat) latino security dude (I don't even know his name), that thinks he is a tough guy, tell him I said Hi.

Why would I play at South Point specifically? is that your question? South point has always been in my rotation since the time I moved to Vegas. Even before I started driving in Vegas. As a matter of fact, just after I bought a car and started driving, I won a truck at South Point. :cool:

As far as blackjack, they are a little (a lot) sweaty. I don't care. I play El Cortez fairly frequently for God sakes. Neither of these properties contributes to the databases. They subscribe but don't contribute. That means anything that does happen, only effects that property. That is a big plus for longevity.

I will definitely be returning to South Point before the year is up, just out of principal :cool:, but probably not playing blackjack for a good while, so I can tell you what I like about South Point blackjack related without much consequence.

6 deck games on the main floor. Penetration isn't great in the main pit, usually 67-70%, but in the second pit at the $25 min, the pen is 75% which is normal or average. And on weekdays the $25 games aren't crowded. South point is a low roller joint. The $10 games are crowded.

Also, and this will excite some of the haters, but when the second and third pits are open, south point is one of the better tracking a second table locations. I am able to do this less and less frequently these days though.

And of course, South Point is one of the few remaining reasonably priced buffets.

Unfortunately, I was no-mailed there long ago, so it has only been about blackjack for a number of years. And in regards to no-mail, I always say that no-mail is one of the first counter-measures taken. Kind of a waring shot. I guess I ignored that warning. :D

Kew carrying on with this charade is just silly. People offering him advice is meaningless because the whole thing is a no-brainer.

Notice him claiming he'd "revisit" his decision not to sue. Anyone who retains high octane legal help like Nersesian would never go against the guy's advice. The scenario kew identified ALONG WITH THAT INCRIMINATING VIDEO would easily attract a settlement in the mid 6-figures to low 7. Kew's simply trying to save face while hoping it all just goes away. Too late, idiot. And let's not forget that kew NEVER FILED A POLICE REPORT. Anyone who wants to believe he did should contact Metro. All the info is available, and kew's name is nowhere to be found in the past 30 days.

Fess up kew--you got caught big-time in your own lie.

And I like it! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

KJ, did you talk with your attorney about him simply contacting Sweat Point and trying to negotiate a reasonable settlement without first filing a lawsuit?

Heck, if he has the video that is the crux of the case.

Again, as you know you have two years to file a lawsuit if it cannot be settled quietly.

Maybe I'm repeating myself, but with a broken arm and a video tape it would seem to be a "slam-dunk" case for your attorney.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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Really, I am going to stop talking about this right now. I hear you though MrV and appreciate your thoughts, comments and legal advice. Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I will definitely be returning to South Point before the year is up...

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Huh?

What about "I was read a trespass statement, told not to return and signed some documentation to that effect?"