El Cortez automatic shuffle machine cheating

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Moses asked why kewlJ is doing this, and why he can't just keep his mouth shut, quietly win, and leave the casino policing to Nevada Gaming.

He also wonders what kewlJ feels he's accomplishing by posting his findings.

I have an answer for that.

Exposing things like this will only help players in the long run -- both APs and recs.

Why?

Let's take this situation.

Let's hypothetically say kewlJ has discovered something real, and the casino was cheating using a modified Shufflemaster.

At the very least, word will get back to the casino that they've been caught, and they will stop doing it, fearing consequences if they continue. At the most, this will get the attention of Gaming, and the casino will be punished for it.

Either way, the casino will have experienced a negative consequence from being caught cheating, and will think twice before attempting further shenanigans.

As I said before, even if this particular cheating instance is exploitable once discovered, the next incidence of cheating may not be exploitable or easily discoverable. I think it's absurd to advocate keeping casino cheating quiet for the good of APs. This only encourages future bad behavior.

Casinos are like any other business. They will bend and break the rules if it results in more profits, and will only cease or avoid such behavior when consequences loom. Facebook was selling our data for huge profits until the February 2018 scandal where much of this was exposed. Large industrial companies will heavily pollute the environment until such pollution is discovered and they are fined or threatened with other consequences. Large consumer companies will screw each consumer for a small amount of money until a class action lawsuit costs them $200 million. You get my point.

Publicizing suspected casino cheating is always a positive for all players.

I saw a comparison to the Uston case in New Jersey, and what it did to blackjack there. Indeed, the blackjack games declined in AC after Uston's case made it illegal for casinos there to back off players for counting. In response, the AC casinos simply made the game conditions unbeatable through counting.

However, this is a poor comparison. Backing players off isn't the casino cheating -- it's simply a form of combat against the AP. So, yes, it could be said that the elimination of the backoff made the game beatable for zero APs, whereas before the game was beatable for APs who had a good enough cover or system to where they weren't detected.

But reporting suspected cheating? That should be done every time, and the only ones who should be upset about it should be the casinos themselves.

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The best way to get a casino to stop doing something where a player can gain an advantage is to hit them in the pocket book.

Theres lots of long term proof this method works.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Now here's what I know about Ryemo (don't know if I should be saying this, so will try to keep it general.) He doesn't live in Vegas. He plays here some, because he lives in Nevada, but plays and talks about many other places. He is also married and I believe has a kid or 2?? And while I haven't met Ryemo, and don't meet many AP's there is one AP that I have met that has also met Ryemo. A top BJ guy on and off several forums. So maybe you should talk to him about it.

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Ryemo has joined several different BJ forums and he usually posts an introduction of himself. I didn't know he lives in Nevada. If this is correct it must be a recent move. I always thought he lived in the same state as Zee from what is implied in his introduction. He has mentioned kids in his posts so I assume he has more than one.

Moses, for your information here is a blackjack site I haven't seen you on. https://www.gamblingforums.com/ After a few visits a year or so ago I felt the site wasn't right for me. Ryemo has posted an introduction there and also on BJinfo.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Now here's what I know about Ryemo (don't know if I should be saying this, so will try to keep it general.) He doesn't live in Vegas. He plays here some, because he lives in Nevada, but plays and talks about many other places. He is also married and I believe has a kid or 2?? And while I haven't met Ryemo, and don't meet many AP's there is one AP that I have met that has also met Ryemo. A top BJ guy on and off several forums. So maybe you should talk to him about it.

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Ryemo has joined several different BJ forums and he usually posts an introduction of himself. I didn't know he lives in Nevada. If this is correct it must be a recent move. I always thought he lived in the same state as Zee from what is implied in his introduction. He has mentioned kids in his posts so I assume he has more than one.

Moses, for your information here is a blackjack site I haven't seen you on. https://www.gamblingforums.com/ After a few visits a year or so ago I felt the site wasn't right for me. Ryemo has posted an introduction there and also on BJinfo.

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I don't recommend gamblingforums to anyone. Some of us that are currently here, were there before here. It went really badly. The site owner is a nut. I mean he is actually crazy. I'll bet all of us can agree on that. I actually didn't have any problems with him as he treated me well, but towards the end, he revealed he was really "out there".

As for Ryemo, maybe I am mistaken when I say "lives" in Nevada. Maybe it's a second home, or some sort of parttime home or "home base", when he is out west. Actually, I don't think we should even be discussing this. But the point is that I am not Ryemo, nor him, I as moses has seemed to recently come up with.


Also, in thinking about it, maybe I am taking too much credit in influencing Ryemo, although he once said something about me influencing him. But it also happens that Ryemo and another long-term well respected member of the community are fairly close and communicate regularly and this happens to be the member I am closest to in this community and has had a HUGE influence on me. That may be why all three of us, have some very similar ideas about playing this game. Not all but many.

MWP, I suspect you know who I am referring to. Don't say it publicly.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I don't recommend gamblingforums to anyone. Some of us that are currently here, were there before here. It went really badly. The site owner is a nut. I mean he is actually crazy. I'll bet all of us can agree on that. I actually didn't have any problems with him as he treated me well, but towards the end, he revealed he was really "out there".

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Shortly after I joined that site, I received an email from a very respected blackjack player who is well known in the BJ community warning me about the site. Now this is the second time I'm hearing this. I don't participate on that site anymore.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

Shortly after I joined that site, I received an email from a very respected blackjack player who is well known in the BJ community warning me about the site. Now this is the second time I'm hearing this. I don't participate on that site anymore.

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A person has to have a hankering for some drama to participate at that site. You might say that about this site too, although I am always hoping that changes. Maybe a few new members gets us heading in that direction. :)

I am not very proud of most of my participation at GF. For that matter I am not proud of some of my participation here. But I don't have many options. I guess a better "balanced" person would have just found something else to fill his time. :rolleyes:

But GF's did serve a purpose for me. I joined after my feud with QFIT spilled over to WoV and Shackleford banned me at Norm's request. I STILL had things to say to both Norm and Shackleford and GF gave me that platform. And to my surprise, they both read every word I typed. I know that for a fact. Norm even joined the site, using the handle "victim" of all things to dispute things I said. So it did serve my purpose.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Also, in thinking about it, maybe I am taking too much credit in influencing Ryemo, although he once said something about me influencing him. But it also happens that Ryemo and another long-term well respected member of the community are fairly close and communicate regularly and this happens to be the member I am closest to in this community and has had a HUGE influence on me. That may be why all three of us, have some very similar ideas about playing this game. Not all but many.

MWP, I suspect you know who I am referring to. Don't say it publicly.

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KJ and Ryemo. Bonnie and Clyde. Interesting ending to that movie. Yes, the 3rd member would definately complete the group of 3 stooges. You know who I mean. You didn't have much to say until I was banned and couldn't respond. Then, you couldn't seem to shut your pie hole. Well, I'm here now. Birds of a feather.

Monet, Coach, Singer and others might want to brush up with your +1s. We'd be going up against a pretty tough gang of cheerleaders and pom pom queens.

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Originally Posted by Moses

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Also, in thinking about it, maybe I am taking too much credit in influencing Ryemo, although he once said something about me influencing him. But it also happens that Ryemo and another long-term well respected member of the community are fairly close and communicate regularly and this happens to be the member I am closest to in this community and has had a HUGE influence on me. That may be why all three of us, have some very similar ideas about playing this game. Not all but many.

MWP, I suspect you know who I am referring to. Don't say it publicly.

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KJ and Ryemo. Bonnie and Clyde. Interesting ending to that movie. Yes, the 3rd member would definately complete the group of 3 stooges. You know who I mean. You didn't have much to say until I was banned and couldn't respond. Then, you couldn't seem to shut your pie hole. Well, I'm here now. Birds of a feather.

Monet, Coach, Singer and others might want to brush up with your +1s. We'd be going up against a pretty tough gang of cheerleaders and pom pom queens.

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To be fair I am on your side or at least agree with what you have posted on this site recently.
I certainly am against Singer or Coach or at least what they have posted... not so much Coach since he doesn't post much.
Also I am against pretty much everyone on these boards. I work alone... I got my own troubles.

Moses, WHAT the hell are you talking about?

Monet: Since you agree with what moses posted, can you explain what on earth he is talking about?

I agree with the general idea of his posts. Don't draw heat. Don't shit where you eat. Don't try to save the world... especially the Casino World.
Always have more than one exit strategy and ready to use it. Punch people in the throat if they bother you... this kind of stuff.

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Originally Posted by monet

To be fair I am on your side or at least agree with what you have posted on this site recently.
I certainly am against Singer or Coach or at least what they have posted... not so much Coach since he doesn't post much.
Also I am against pretty much everyone on these boards. I work alone... I got my own troubles.

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Thanks Monet. I enjoy and agree with your posts as well. I enjoy laughing. I think it's important to have a sense of humor. Especially, when I play this game. I've read some things by Singer, Coach, and others that break me up. Freighters humor was one of my biggest assets in between sessions. He's a sheep dog. But a helluva good guy IMO. There was one poster who I referred and Freighter thought he was a sock of someone else. So Freighter went through the guy like a knife through butter. I saw him a short time later. He was in utter shock. It was hilarious.

Some of those on that site are just so damn serious.

See KJ. People do understand. I suppose it helps to be an athlete. It's like locker room talk that breaks the tension before or after a game. Why don't you tell me what you can't comprehend and I will explain it.

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Originally Posted by monet

I agree with the general idea of his posts. Don't draw heat. Don't shit where you eat. Don't try to save the world... especially the Casino World.
Always have more than one exit strategy and ready to use it. Punch people in the throat if they bother you... this kind of stuff.

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Jump to 1:50

I prefer the Knee though. My Father said that was the best way to bring someone down... it works but not sure if it is the best way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMbx4rZOMig

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Originally Posted by Moses

. Why don't you tell me what you can't comprehend and I will explain it.

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Where were you banned that I said something that you couldn't respond to?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Moses

. Why don't you tell me what you can't comprehend and I will explain it.

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Where were you banned that I said something that you couldn't respond to?

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I think Norm Banned him right before KingZen and Spiderman

Norm Bans anyone that doesn't pay the subscription fee.

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Originally Posted by monet

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Moses

. Why don't you tell me what you can't comprehend and I will explain it.

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Where were you banned that I said something that you couldn't respond to?

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I think Norm Banned him right before KingZen and Spiderman

Norm Bans anyone that doesn't pay the subscription fee.

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And what name or handle was he posting under?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

And what name or handle was he posting under?

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I don't know the story but this was what Norm said in response to BoSox...

BoSox
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Join Date
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Moses has been trying to warn you for days now about this situation. He recognized this problem well in advance.

Ps When does he get a parole board hearing?


Norm
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He also accused me of doing vile things to children, made physical threats, and harassed me by phone and e-mail. He has a truth value of zero in my mind. Please don't bring up permanently banned members. They will have no voice here. Wikipedia has an essay on blocked members attempting to return as socks called DENY. It provides a helpful explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ny_recognition

Now, do you have a comment on the actual purpose of this thread?

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Originally Posted by monet

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

And what name or handle was he posting under?

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I don't know the story but this was what Norm said in response to BoSox...

BoSox
Senior Member
Join Date
Mar 2015
Posts
1,345

Did you find this post helpful?
Moses has been trying to warn you for days now about this situation. He recognized this problem well in advance.

Ps When does he get a parole board hearing?


Norm
Random number herder
Join Date Dec 2011
Location
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He also accused me of doing vile things to children, made physical threats, and harassed me by phone and e-mail. He has a truth value of zero in my mind. Please don't bring up permanently banned members. They will have no voice here. Wikipedia has an essay on blocked members attempting to return as socks called DENY. It provides a helpful explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ny_recognition

Now, do you have a comment on the actual purpose of this thread?

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ok, so Bosox brought up Moses, along with mentioning other banned members. What does this have to do with me?

I don't know kewlJ... that is between you and Moses and others... I am just speculating that Moses was banned at the same place spiderman was and that is the Forum he was talking about but who knows? You are on many forums so Moses could be referring to something or somewhere else.

I am obviously sticking my nose where it doesn't belong and am finished posting about the topic but funny how Norm, Mike and Elliot all look and act the same.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Moses

. Why don't you tell me what you can't comprehend and I will explain it.

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Where were you banned that I said something that you couldn't respond to?

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Not unless you are Ryemo. I got the hook 3 times. I did respond. Norm deleted and banned me. The Refinery and 21forme were like cheerleaders. My main issue was with Flash. A complete fraud as you'd written and it came out later after I was banned. 21Forme (your mentor?) seemed to have alot to say once I was banned. If he is your friend, I'd hate to see your enemies.

He had me on ignore which is totally cool. But to start popping off after he knows I can't respond? That's chicken shit.

Ryemo made the mistake of trying to bully me. Then he did the same to other nice ole gents who just wanted to talk blackjack. Not everyone travels the country, leaves their family for weeks at a time, and makes tons of money. If they do, they are not always bragging about it.

It isn't between me and moses. It is between moses and moses, because I have no idea what he is talking about.

In the few weeks that I posted at BJTF as spiderman, I was not aware moses was posting there. Still am not aware. What handle was he posting under? And what did I say that he couldn't respond to?


We are really deep into the twilight zone. Absolutely no one even knows what moses is talking about and I am starting to think that includes moses.

Moses, what the fuck is wrong with you? I am not ryemo. I have no idea what he may or may not have said to you or you him and more importaly I don't care. NOT ONE BIT.

Both 21forme and ryemo are my friends, on line that I sometimes communicate with privately about blackjack issues. We have similar view on blackjack. That doesn't mean I agree or even care what either say on non-blackjack discussion or arguments with you.


If you have some issue with either of them or anyone else, take it up with them.