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You can't be this stupid. They sure did a good job of convincing you that the mRNA Covid shots are just like any other traditional vaccine. They are not. Disappointing to learn that both of our resident attorneys seem to be sheep when it comes to injecting stuff into their bodies.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
I don't believe this thread on vaccine conspiracy theories. Anyone who wants to believe vaccines and advances in medicine are bad...go for it. Join the Amish in shunning medicine and believing in 'God's will".
Americans live to be 85, 90 100 years old routinely now. We can debate whether that is good or bad (not so good with poor quality of life and can't remember anything or know who you are). BUT there is no debate this longer lifespan is because of modern advances in medicine and that includes preventive medicine like vaccines and flu shots, ect.
You either believe and embrace the advances in science and medicine, or you plow your fields with a horse, die in your 5t0's and 60's and lose a few kids in their childhood. Your call.
It is the only study I found that tried to separate the deaths from the vaccine side-effects directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogBoth of your links go to the same study?? Did you happen to notice the date of this study? It's based on VAERS data extracted between 12/11/20-1/8/21, this was way before mass-scale vaccine rollout. They found 55 deaths in VAERS. The last time I looked at the VAERS data was probably somewhere around late 2021 and there were already 30,000 deaths related to the Covid vaccine. Keep in mind VAERS is voluntarily reported so definitely under-reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I'm disappointed :(
One big problem with determining vaccine deaths is there can be a huge lag between vaccine intake and death. The cardiological issues seem to present more early on but later immunosuppression can lead to cancer which can take a long time to kill you. If you die of cancer a year or more later, this will almost surely not get pinned on the vax. This is why the excess deaths data is of a lot of value in determining there is some kind of a problem.
I'm not sure if you believe that the overall effect is bad when including the vaccine positives and negatives? I can find plenty of studies doing that. I can't find ones that try to figure out the deaths caused by the vaccine. Or something that shows a large amount of deaths.
If there are excessive deaths from vaccine then there should be studies demonstrating this. There are not. I've looked too much already. I can find ones that show that the overall effect of the vaccines is a positive but I'm not if you disagree with that?
Both links went to the same study because I had spent too much fucking time on this shit and wasn't in the mood to copy/paste the title and just repasted the URL twice.
Unlike the youtube crew, I actually read the conclusion/abstracts and tried to find something to address your belief. Too much time. You've done all this studying but can't come up with one legitimate study by a non-influencer type that shows the deathrate increasing in some statistically meaningful way due to the vaccine. Sorry but that is the reality of this. I would think the burden of proof should be more on your side given that your claim is the more outlandish one.
I have little problem believing that the trial outcomes weren't covered up. There was so much disinformation going on and bad math. Everyone is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The youtube videos are prime examples of click-bait/manipulative takeways of data.
My basic belief is vaxes should have never been forced on anyone but if a hospital wants to deny treatment for people who didn't get the vax and have covid - then they should have the right to do that in a free society. That was my main issue with the vaccine - is that it overloaded the healthcare industry. I am greedy and want it functional for myself. I'd be ok if these anti-vax people would just sit at home and ride it out but many of them are going to go to the hospital when they're dying and take up a bed. Often costs being passed onto others. Stay home for the vax, stay home from the hospital. That was my view at the time. Maximize freedom to everyone.
One other thing. I remember during covid a number of these right wing media influencer who railed against vaccines and that covid was anything more than the flu. Fast forward a month and you saw several in the hospital literally on their deathbed (because they died shortly after) saying they were wrong.
And while the republicans were minimizing covid and railing against vaccines, who was first in line to get theirs....Good old Donald J Trump. (do as I say, not as I do)
Speaking of good old DJT, I can guarantee the guy who "ended abortion" and is proud of it, paid for a number of abortions for women he screwed. Do as I say, not as I do. :cool:
I watched a full speech of Trump today. It is remarkable how much BLM is like this immigrant talk. Bad math. Like a handful of cops are malicious pieces of shit who get off on their authority - that is the minority of them. Just like immigrants - most are here to work hard and have a decent life. There is some amount of them who are horrible people who need to be hung. Just like the cops.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Both sides dehumanize all cops and immigrants. Full of individual examples but if you look at the math overall - the claims of both sides are wrong. It is the same shit. Just manipulative bullshit coming from puppetmasters of left and right. Same thought processes.
Hey I'm all for any advance that has gone through a full FDA approval process with plenty of safety data to back it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Actually US life expectancy dropped quite a bit and still has not recovered to pre-Covid expectancy as of yet. Stick to talking about counting cards, you're out of your element Donnie.
That would have been nice. In an ideal situation. Sure. There wasn't that luxury with this emergency health situation. You do the best you can. And that is what I believe they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog
here is my conspiracy theory and it is minor compared to what I have read in this thread. I believe that the government in conjunction with scientists and doctors, may have suspected that covid wasn't as severe a risk to completely healthy adults. BUT in order to protect older people, people with underlying health problems and children who were more at risk, they made these rules and mandates and shutdowns for everyone. I mean if they left it up to everyone to do the right thing people are so selfish they wouldn't have, even at risk of their own loved ones.
I have no problem with the way everything went down, nor my choices to protect myself and continue to protect myself with vaccines.
LOL! That's exactly what this is.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
The dark brown line is the projected deaths based on 5 years prior to Covid and then adjusted for population and/or other factors. The light brown line is the actual deaths. Both lines have Covid deaths removed to keep it apples to apples. The green vertical line is approx when the vaccines are introduced at mass scale. After that you see the actual deaths just peel away from the projected deaths.
You're asking me to produce a study that doesn't exist AFAIK. Sorry I can't manifest one, but this graph should be more than enough to at least raise a red flag for you... and a BIG one!
It isn't even about policies right now. I voted for Harris and I am pretty sure I disagree with more things than agree with, with her and the democrats. Trump is a crazy person and not fit to be president. End of story. Just the same as back in early July it became apparent Joe Biden was not fit to be president.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I mean you gotta start with people that are sane and fit (includuing mentally) and haven't forgotten who or where they are in the case of Biden. then we can talk about what they want to accomplish.
It is an image. I want the actual study and methodology that produced this. It is also produced by an influencer. See the branding in the upper-right? It is even copy-righted. Someone is looking for $$ from it first and foremost.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogLOL! That's exactly what this is.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
The dark brown line is the projected deaths based on 5 years prior to Covid and then adjusted for population and/or other factors. The light brown line is the actual deaths. Both lines have Covid deaths removed to keep it apples to apples. The green vertical line is approx when the vaccines are introduced at mass scale. After that you see the actual deaths just peel away from the projected deaths.
You're asking me to produce a study that doesn't exist AFAIK. Sorry I can't manifest one, but this graph should be more than enough to at least raise a red flag for you... and a BIG one!
The flag was raised and I looked around ..
If this is legitimate, the guy who created it will explain exactly how he arrived at this and the actual numbers and all that. He would have tried to put it in a paper and have it published. Thats how science works. People share ideas and try to get theirs out there. This is meant to convince people of a beief but not trying to expand any sort of understanding.
I wholeheartedly agree. But why aren't there any? We saw a substantial increase in deathrates across the world, yet there appears to be not much concern about it. I remain confident the truth will come to light eventually though.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
The data is just too hard to find for researchers. If like everyone was truthful and everything recorded then we could know.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogI wholeheartedly agree. But why aren't there any? We saw a substantial increase in deathrates across the world, yet there appears to be not much concern about it. I remain confident the truth will come to light eventually though.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
There is also the issue that long covid has also caused issues and some of them are very likely to have pushed people over the brink to death. How is any of this separated out? It could be a vaccine, it could be the lingering inflammation from the illness.
All he did was compile data (add up numbers every week) from government sources. It's not rocket science. He gives the sources right there. MMWR is the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report data that's available on the CDC website. And I think you'll find people who voluntarily do this kind of work to be quite detail oriented. I'd be willing to bet this stuff is spot on. I doubt he's a scientist that would be able to publish a paper, it's just an expression of data in graph form.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Like I said I had no trouble believing this because there is also data from many other countries showing similar trends, it wasn't just here.
That's a good point. Because vaccine side effects and Covid symptoms are pretty similar. However long Covid was something that seemed to be more associated with the early variants, I don't remember hearing much about it later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Yes, it seems to be that the current COVIDs do less to cause long covid and also we have vaccines and medicine to treat active infections which are very effective. Long-covid could contribute to a person's death years later from everything I know but no one can know this. Science has limitations of all sorts. Much of these limitations led to somewhat poor advice at times. I see too much conspiracy talk though in a general sense. It clouds to much criticism of the vax response.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogThat's a good point. Because vaccine side effects and Covid symptoms are pretty similar. However long Covid was something that seemed to be more associated with the early variants, I don't remember hearing much about it later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
That was always my concern, long covid. That is still my opinion. I'll take vax risk over risk of long covid without the vax. oh well..
Even where Covid is right now?? Nah, I'll let my immune system handle it. I don't think we have enough experience monkeying around with genetic code just yet. But I generally have no issue with other more proven traditional vaccines.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Another big problem with vaxxing for any type of coronavirus is trying to stay ahead of the mutations. They mutate fast and it will always be hard to keep up, so you'll have to get boosters often and many times with limited effect. At the end of the day it comes off as a good business model to me. Vaccines are the one pharmaceutical you can even sell to healthy people. But this is only my opinion of course ;)
No they didn't suspect. They KNEW this! The data said this from the very beginning. Except no group of children were ever at high risk, don't know where you got that idea. Oh wait... probably from the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
They hoped to try to slow it down, or at least give the impression that there was something people could do to slow it down. Of course keeping 80% of the workforce at home had to have accomplished this to some degree. But no, we never even came close to taking the extreme steps required to actually protect the elderly. My biggest criticism of our Covid response was that we did not do more to protect the most vulnerable.
I guess my verb tenses were wrong. I still would have taken the vax .. I got the 3rd shot aka booster but don't plan on getting one again until something serious changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogEven where Covid is right now?? Nah, I'll let my immune system handle it. I don't think we have enough experience monkeying around with genetic code just yet. But I generally have no issue with other more proven traditional vaccines.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Another big problem with vaxxing for any type of coronavirus is trying to stay ahead of the mutations. They mutate fast and it will always be hard to keep up, so you'll have to get boosters often and many times with limited effect. At the end of the day it comes off as a good business model to me. Vaccines are the one pharmaceutical you can even sell to healthy people. But this is only my opinion of course ;)
You're clearly not wrong that pharma companies want to sell vaccines and anything else they produce. That is a big part of capitalism - talking people into buying things they don't need.
If the clinical trials show bad effects and they release this data and then every social media influencer trying to gain clout will have purposefully misconstrue the results in the best way they can think up. I can't particularly blame the vax companies for a "cover-up" unless they covered up something really bad.
This is why disinfo is pushed by parties outside the US. It just fucks with everything. Hurricane responses and such. Everything.
My biggest issue was the PPP money just blanket given out and it was just kinda random whether it was needed or not. Case in point - buddy was a mechanic. They never shut down the place. The employees just avoided each other and didn't eat close together. Seemed to work just fine and the owners got a huge fat financial freeroll. They're not near enough wealthy to need a wealth tax but these were the types of people just buying assets elsewhere.
I've come to the conclusion that the trials were just a smoke and mirrors show, I think they already knew they could keep people out of the hospitals with Covid. If you look at the results page I posted, the sample size was obviously way too small. You don't need a degree to see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
What's amazing to me is how badly they botched even producing an illusion of a valid study and IIRC there were a couple whistleblowers. I remember when they initially started releasing the trials results through the media, the number of people who died in the study overall was multiples lower than the number who would normally die in that time period just from natural causes in the general population. Of course this was already red flag number two for me because I could never stomach the idea of using a brand new non-FDA approved technology for the vax. So when they were available I opted for the non-mRNA J&J vax. But within just several months problems with the vaxxes started to come to light.
But yeah they covered up some really bad things, they dismissed people from the trials that more or less had any kind of side effects, hence the very low death rate in the study. I'd say that constitutes fraud, but again that's just my opinion.
Will this be the post-election landscape of America?
Stay tuned boys and girls and watch as the whacky madness unfolds around us.
Just...wow...