Professional Sportsbetting

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Pretty good interview of attorney Bob Loeb about how the legal online books have the deck stacked on confiscating money. Some of the cases are extreme like confiscating a half million dollar account over a 15K dispute.

https://youtu.be/jrwR9pzB5tQ

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Redietz, in this GWAE episode Richard Munchkin is calling on the AP community to get the press involved as much as possible on the issue of the books banning winning bettors and confiscating money. He's also calling on buying billboard space close to brick and mortars to make the public aware of the issue.

Do you want me to contact Munchkin and tell him you are the final authority on this issue and you say there is no problem at all? That the books are not really doing it and bettors are not being harmed?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Pretty good interview of attorney Bob Loeb about how the legal online books have the deck stacked on confiscating money. Some of the cases are extreme like confiscating a half million dollar account over a 15K dispute.

https://youtu.be/jrwR9pzB5tQ

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Redietz, in this GWAE episode Richard Munchkin is calling on the AP community to get the press involved as much as possible on the issue of the books banning winning bettors and confiscating money. He's also calling on buying billboard space close to brick and mortars to make the public aware of the issue.

Do you want me to contact Munchkin and tell him you are the final authority on this issue and you say there is no problem at all? That the books are not really doing it and bettors are not being harmed?

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Good try, mickey. Mr. Munchkin mentioned this at lunch some months ago and we briefly discussed it. I was, of course, horrified but not terribly surprised. My first question was, brick-and-mortar legal books? The people being slotted into these book management positions think, like some here, that sporting events are coin flips, and booking is a way to print money.

What you, as usual, fail to mention are the key elements. First is the fact that what is being addressed here are not the offshores which I have been discussing under "Sports and Sports Betting." Second is the fact that this is a RECENT phenomenon by what are considered LEGAL sports books (although Native American books are, by MY definition, straddling the line between "legal" and "not sanctioned'). In other words, this is the last 24 months or so, and it's by "LEGAL" books.

So other than having no idea what I have said on this RECENT alleged shenanigan by ostensibly LEGAL sports books, you covered the topic with your usual thoroughness and depth.

Here's a kicker for you. I have no legal accounts at the moment. I bet in legal sports books without formal accounts. I have been saving any bonuses for a rainy day and also because I know that most them don't know what they are doing. They are out of control, and some are doing some very questionable stuff under the radar. I know this because I was recently offered an under-the-radar futures wager, which I declined. Why? Because had I won it, I felt it was quite possible the wager would be challenged and negated.

The bottom line is that what made offshores both tolerant of winning bettors and long-lived has NOT been grasped or adopted by many of the bean counters running ostensibly legal books. To put it in historical terms -- the mob knows how to run sports books. To put it in Billy Walters terms, which he laid out pretty clearly way back in Munchkin's bio profile of Walters in the Gambling Wizards book, many of the legal alleged bookmakers have no clue. So they rely on semi-legal shenanigans to protect themselves instead having in-house linesmakers with some savvy to organize their business. If there's one thing Walters emphasized in that book, which was not emphasized as clearly in his recent bio, it was that many people managing legal books are inferior to those managing the "illegal" ones.

Now none of this showed up until legalization a couple of years ago, and now you have some execs trying to make their way in the world who really have no idea what they are doing. The casinos basically can't pay people enough to fill their positions with savvy bookmakers, and they think bookmaking is a way to print money, which it has never been...unless you know what you are doing. The people who have been thrust into management positions for some of these new-blood books don't.

Like many people here, they make the fundamental error of assuming betting sports is like coin flipping.

And mickey, thanks for the question and the opportunity to display a little expertise. Much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Pretty good interview of attorney Bob Loeb about how the legal online books have the deck stacked on confiscating money. Some of the cases are extreme like confiscating a half million dollar account over a 15K dispute.

https://youtu.be/jrwR9pzB5tQ

---

Redietz, in this GWAE episode Richard Munchkin is calling on the AP community to get the press involved as much as possible on the issue of the books banning winning bettors and confiscating money. He's also calling on buying billboard space close to brick and mortars to make the public aware of the issue.

Do you want me to contact Munchkin and tell him you are the final authority on this issue and you say there is no problem at all? That the books are not really doing it and bettors are not being harmed?

---

Good try, mickey. Mr. Munchkin mentioned this at lunch some months ago and we briefly discussed it. I was, of course, horrified but not terribly surprised. My first question was, brick-and-mortar legal books? The people being slotted into these book management positions think, like some here, that sporting events are coin flips, and booking is a way to print money.

What you, as usual, fail to mention are the key elements. First is the fact that what is being addressed here are not the offshores which I have been discussing under "Sports and Sports Betting." Second is the fact that this is a RECENT phenomenon by what are considered LEGAL sports books (although Native American books are, by MY definition, straddling the line between "legal" and "not sanctioned'). In other words, this is the last 24 months or so, and it's by "LEGAL" books.

So other than having no idea what I have said on this RECENT alleged shenanigan by ostensibly LEGAL sports books, you covered the topic with your usual thoroughness and depth.

Here's a kicker for you. I have no legal accounts at the moment. I bet in legal sports books without formal accounts. I have been saving any bonuses for a rainy day and also because I know that most them don't know what they are doing. They are out of control, and some are doing some very questionable stuff under the radar. I know this because I was recently offered an under-the-radar futures wager, which I declined. Why? Because had I won it, I felt it was quite possible the wager would be challenged and negated.

The bottom line is that what made offshores both tolerant of winning bettors and long-lived has NOT been grasped or adopted by many of the bean counters running ostensibly legal books. To put it in historical terms -- the mob knows how to run sports books. To put it in Billy Walters terms, which he laid out pretty clearly way back in Munchkin's bio profile of Walters in the Gambling Wizards book, many of the legal alleged bookmakers have no clue. So they rely on semi-legal shenanigans to protect themselves instead having in-house linesmakers with some savvy to organize their business. If there's one thing Walters emphasized in that book, which was not emphasized as clearly in his recent bio, it was that many people managing legal books are inferior to those managing the "illegal" ones.

Now none of this showed up until legalization a couple of years ago, and now you have some execs trying to make their way in the world who really have no idea what they are doing. The casinos basically can't pay people enough to fill their positions with savvy bookmakers, and they think bookmaking is a way to print money, which it has never been...unless you know what you are doing. The people who have been thrust into management positions for some of these new-blood books don't.

Like many people here, they make the fundamental error of assuming betting sports is like coin flipping.

And mickey, thanks for the question and the opportunity to display a little expertise. Much appreciated.

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Thanks for finally admitting the truth. But what you are now saying has been being told by countless other sports bettors long before you.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Redietz, in this GWAE episode Richard Munchkin is calling on the AP community to get the press involved as much as possible on the issue of the books banning winning bettors and confiscating money. He's also calling on buying billboard space close to brick and mortars to make the public aware of the issue.

Do you want me to contact Munchkin and tell him you are the final authority on this issue and you say there is no problem at all? That the books are not really doing it and bettors are not being harmed?

---

Good try, mickey. Mr. Munchkin mentioned this at lunch some months ago and we briefly discussed it. I was, of course, horrified but not terribly surprised. My first question was, brick-and-mortar legal books? The people being slotted into these book management positions think, like some here, that sporting events are coin flips, and booking is a way to print money.

What you, as usual, fail to mention are the key elements. First is the fact that what is being addressed here are not the offshores which I have been discussing under "Sports and Sports Betting." Second is the fact that this is a RECENT phenomenon by what are considered LEGAL sports books (although Native American books are, by MY definition, straddling the line between "legal" and "not sanctioned'). In other words, this is the last 24 months or so, and it's by "LEGAL" books.

So other than having no idea what I have said on this RECENT alleged shenanigan by ostensibly LEGAL sports books, you covered the topic with your usual thoroughness and depth.

Here's a kicker for you. I have no legal accounts at the moment. I bet in legal sports books without formal accounts. I have been saving any bonuses for a rainy day and also because I know that most them don't know what they are doing. They are out of control, and some are doing some very questionable stuff under the radar. I know this because I was recently offered an under-the-radar futures wager, which I declined. Why? Because had I won it, I felt it was quite possible the wager would be challenged and negated.

The bottom line is that what made offshores both tolerant of winning bettors and long-lived has NOT been grasped or adopted by many of the bean counters running ostensibly legal books. To put it in historical terms -- the mob knows how to run sports books. To put it in Billy Walters terms, which he laid out pretty clearly way back in Munchkin's bio profile of Walters in the Gambling Wizards book, many of the legal alleged bookmakers have no clue. So they rely on semi-legal shenanigans to protect themselves instead having in-house linesmakers with some savvy to organize their business. If there's one thing Walters emphasized in that book, which was not emphasized as clearly in his recent bio, it was that many people managing legal books are inferior to those managing the "illegal" ones.

Now none of this showed up until legalization a couple of years ago, and now you have some execs trying to make their way in the world who really have no idea what they are doing. The casinos basically can't pay people enough to fill their positions with savvy bookmakers, and they think bookmaking is a way to print money, which it has never been...unless you know what you are doing. The people who have been thrust into management positions for some of these new-blood books don't.

Like many people here, they make the fundamental error of assuming betting sports is like coin flipping.

And mickey, thanks for the question and the opportunity to display a little expertise. Much appreciated.

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Thanks for finally admitting the truth. But what you are now saying has been being told by countless other sports bettors long before you.

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Mickey, get real. The bottom line is you don't know anything vis-a-vis sports betting. You don't know, as the saying goes, your ass from a hole in the ground.

All you're familiar with are a handful of acquaintances and whatever blather shows up on forums and YouTube. You have zero experience and actually know zilch. Maybe, possibly, you learned something from Munchkin, who has a long history with offshores and what was allowed and so on. My history with offshores is longer and more involved.

Why you insist on playing expert is beyond me. Maybe it's a hobo thing. Men of the rails are men of the world and all that.

It's ridiculous to engage you. You know nothing and are proud of it. Here's a challenge for you. Try to decide whether Mickey Crimm 2023, who thought it was a great idea to "be an expert" and attend Bet Bash with all the other experts, was smarter or dumber than Mickey Crimm 2024, who may be realizing that attending something sponsored by Circa called Bet Bash is pretty damned dumb. You can debate yourself. Should take awhile.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Pretty good interview of attorney Bob Loeb about how the legal online books have the deck stacked on confiscating money. Some of the cases are extreme like confiscating a half million dollar account over a 15K dispute.

https://youtu.be/jrwR9pzB5tQ

---

Redietz, in this GWAE episode Richard Munchkin is calling on the AP community to get the press involved as much as possible on the issue of the books banning winning bettors and confiscating money. He's also calling on buying billboard space close to brick and mortars to make the public aware of the issue.

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Billboards can be effective, but tend to be very expensive, especially on roads that are heavily traveled. The absolute best method that I have found to get a brick and mortar business to "give in", is to "protest their business". Not a large group of people, because folks may do it for a couple of hours and call it quits. It works best with 2 people, each holding the end of a very large sign. As long as you are on the sidewalk in front of the business and not blocking pedestrians, in most jurisdictions this is legal.

I have personal experience with this several times. I was never the "sign holder", I paid folks to do that part. Each time it was very effective. It also has been effective for people I had recommended this to.

One of the last things a business wants is someone in front of their business holding any type of sign, that is protesting negativity towards the business. It doesn't even really matter what the sign says.

There was a card counter who got his chips confiscated, I told him to do this and he would most likely have his chips/money returned in no time.

Usually if a business is in the wrong, and they know they are in the wrong, they will do what needs to be done to get you away from the business. If you pay someone $100 day, for $3k for a month, the perceived or actual damage to that business is many times that number. It is also likely if you are outside of a place long enough, especially a casino - you just may get the attention of the local media. You can also message the local media from burner accounts asking or suggesting they report on it.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Good try, mickey. Mr. Munchkin mentioned this at lunch some months ago and we briefly discussed it. I was, of course, horrified but not terribly surprised. My first question was, brick-and-mortar legal books? The people being slotted into these book management positions think, like some here, that sporting events are coin flips, and booking is a way to print money.

What you, as usual, fail to mention are the key elements. First is the fact that what is being addressed here are not the offshores which I have been discussing under "Sports and Sports Betting." Second is the fact that this is a RECENT phenomenon by what are considered LEGAL sports books (although Native American books are, by MY definition, straddling the line between "legal" and "not sanctioned'). In other words, this is the last 24 months or so, and it's by "LEGAL" books.

So other than having no idea what I have said on this RECENT alleged shenanigan by ostensibly LEGAL sports books, you covered the topic with your usual thoroughness and depth.

Here's a kicker for you. I have no legal accounts at the moment. I bet in legal sports books without formal accounts. I have been saving any bonuses for a rainy day and also because I know that most them don't know what they are doing. They are out of control, and some are doing some very questionable stuff under the radar. I know this because I was recently offered an under-the-radar futures wager, which I declined. Why? Because had I won it, I felt it was quite possible the wager would be challenged and negated.

The bottom line is that what made offshores both tolerant of winning bettors and long-lived has NOT been grasped or adopted by many of the bean counters running ostensibly legal books. To put it in historical terms -- the mob knows how to run sports books. To put it in Billy Walters terms, which he laid out pretty clearly way back in Munchkin's bio profile of Walters in the Gambling Wizards book, many of the legal alleged bookmakers have no clue. So they rely on semi-legal shenanigans to protect themselves instead having in-house linesmakers with some savvy to organize their business. If there's one thing Walters emphasized in that book, which was not emphasized as clearly in his recent bio, it was that many people managing legal books are inferior to those managing the "illegal" ones.

Now none of this showed up until legalization a couple of years ago, and now you have some execs trying to make their way in the world who really have no idea what they are doing. The casinos basically can't pay people enough to fill their positions with savvy bookmakers, and they think bookmaking is a way to print money, which it has never been...unless you know what you are doing. The people who have been thrust into management positions for some of these new-blood books don't.

Like many people here, they make the fundamental error of assuming betting sports is like coin flipping.

And mickey, thanks for the question and the opportunity to display a little expertise. Much appreciated.

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Thanks for finally admitting the truth. But what you are now saying has been being told by countless other sports bettors long before you.

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Mickey, get real. The bottom line is you don't know anything vis-a-vis sports betting. You don't know, as the saying goes, your ass from a hole in the ground.

All you're familiar with are a handful of acquaintances and whatever blather shows up on forums and YouTube. You have zero experience and actually know zilch. Maybe, possibly, you learned something from Munchkin, who has a long history with offshores and what was allowed and so on. My history with offshores is longer and more involved.

Why you insist on playing expert is beyond me. Maybe it's a hobo thing. Men of the rails are men of the world and all that.

It's ridiculous to engage you. You know nothing and are proud of it. Here's a challenge for you. Try to decide whether Mickey Crimm 2023, who thought it was a great idea to "be an expert" and attend Bet Bash with all the other experts, was smarter or dumber than Mickey Crimm 2024, who may be realizing that attending something sponsored by Circa called Bet Bash is pretty damned dumb. You can debate yourself. Should take awhile.

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That schnocker of yours is getting pretty long. Once again you bear false witness. I never suggested to anyone to go to betbash. And you can’t put up any quotes, which you always tell others to do. You have a severe problem with the truth. It’s based in your inferiority complex.

Billy Walter’s was at bet bash last year. You just called him stupid for going. A lot of the bet bashers you disparage are good friends with Walters. Too bad the same can’t be said of you. Walter’s don’t even remember your name.

Your sad and angry contempt for others in gambling has made you a bitter and despised person. But go ahead. Continue to lash out. Maybe someday you will convince yourself that you are superior to everyone else.

"Deciding Strength/Size of Bet

You need to decide how much to bet. I use a star system: the more stars, the more I bet. First, you identify your spread and the posted spread, then apply percentage values to each number contained in that spread.

Consider the following example. Your handicapped spread is 7.5 and the posted spread is 4.5. Each point within that spread—5, 6, and 7 in this example—has value. From our table above, you see that the number 5 is worth 3 percent, 6 is worth 5 percent, and 7 is worth 6 percent. So 3 + 5 + 6 = 14%. In the table below, you’ll see that a 14 percent spread is nearly a three-star bet. If your projected spread or the posted spread is a whole number, you only count half of the value of that specific number. For example, let’s say you project a 4-point spread and the line is 2.5. In this example, you include the full value of the number 3 (8 percent) and half of the value of the number 4 (1.5). So you have a 9.5 percent spread, which equates to a 1.5-star bet. If the point values between your prediction and the posted spread don’t add up to at least 5.5 percent, then the bet does not qualify for a play.

5.5% Half Star
9% 1.5 Star
11% 2.0 Star
13% 2.5 Star
15% 3.0 Star"
______________________________

Why would Walters be using percentages? Because, clearly, Walters is measuring EV. So which do you think has the higher EV? The 3 star bet or the 2 star bet?

Walters, Billy. Gambler: Secrets from a Life at Risk (p. 268). Avid Reader Press / Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition.

Walters is a purely mathematical bettor. No hunches. He uses past statistics to come up with his plays. The value of numbers in the spread come from this table:

The EV thing is not worth arguing. Redietz can't comprehend what you tell him anyway. You can repeat yourself a dozen times. It is too clownish to bother with at this point.

I love you guys. Hard to find this many smart guys this dumb in one place. Should rename VCT "The Rain Man Forum."

First of all, obviously, do you really think Billy Walters is publishing the lowdown of something of any great value in his book? Comical. You can't be reacting with, "This is how he really conquered sports betting. What a find!" I mean WTF? How dumb/naive can you possibly be?

Second, you do realize he had roundtables of specific-sport experts generating the plays on which he actually wagered? Did you miss the memo? It's in the book.

Third, why do you think you're getting NFL instructions? Rub some neurons together and come up with some reasons.

The sustained, abject stupidity here is unbelievable. Mickey, have you actually discussed Mr. Walters with Mr. Munchkin? You might learn a few things, 20 years after Gambling Wizards.

Mickey, what do you think the value of that table is? As in right now? It's not worth the $6.51 small coffee at the Golden Nugget.

If you don't immediately know this, it's comical.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I love you guys. Hard to find this many smart guys this dumb in one place. Should rename VCT "The Rain Man Forum."

First of all, obviously, do you really think Billy Walters is publishing the lowdown of something of any great value in his book? Comical. You can't be reacting with, "This is how he really conquered sports betting. What a find!" I mean WTF? How dumb/naive can you possibly be?

Second, you do realize he had roundtables of specific-sport experts generating the plays on which he actually wagered? Did you miss the memo? It's in the book.

Third, why do you think you're getting NFL instructions? Rub some neurons together and come up with some reasons.

The sustained, abject stupidity here is unbelievable. Mickey, have you actually discussed Mr. Walters with Mr. Munchkin? You might learn a few things, 20 years after Gambling Wizards.

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Redeitz, Why are you so freaking hostile and resorting to all the name calling and attacks?

I know you think you KNOW everything, but ya think just maybe some players can come up with some ways to win, involving EV, especially with all the bonus tuff going on that you aren't doing? That you didn't do over the last, what did you say...50 years. And who would be likely to come up with that? Maybe advantage players that mostly focus on EV? :confused:

Every heard, there is more than one way to skin a cat? You just refuse to believe that anyone doing things a little differently than you, can win. That only you know how to win. And that, Red, is just pure arrogance on your part.

Could redietz possibly be more insecure? I read this and start to question if we're just not being trolled.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Could redietz possibly be more insecure? I read this and start to question if we're just not being trolled.

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I don't believe Red is trolling us, like others on this forum, with their tales that defy everything.

I still believe redietz made his living for many years (decades) in the arena of sports betting. I think he specialized in college football, including finding value in futures bets, including later hedging opportunities. And I believe he found value in these contests, that I had never really even considered.

Now what kind of "living" he made? I have no idea. :confused: Hopefully enough to pay his property tax most years. :D

And now that there are so many different opportunities involving sports betting, and people that are AP's, seeking out an advantage in so many different ways, rather than expert sports bettors like Red considers himself, are able to make money, he doesn't like it. He thinks that somehow diminishes whatever he accomplished. And things have further turned to the usual pissing contest on this forum because of that.

Is there some insecurity involved? absolutely.

Actually a lot of people have made a lot of money using half-point calculators to estimate the value of mispriced parlays and props, or sometimes just sides.

Of course everyone knows they are based on historical data and so potentially misleading in the light of rule changes and changes in strategy and whatever else.

But who cares? You give yourself a margin of error. Same with any other form of actual wagering.

People play poker against human beings that are capable of learning and improving (or just cheating) without knowing what their exact EV is, or whether their opponent has gotten better than last time. You just make some guesses and go with it.

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Originally Posted by redietz

First of all, obviously, do you really think Billy Walters is publishing the lowdown of something of any great value in his book? Comical. You can't be reacting with, "This is how he really conquered sports betting. What a find!" I mean WTF? How dumb/naive can you possibly be?

Second, you do realize he had roundtables of specific-sport experts generating the plays on which he actually wagered? Did you miss the memo? It's in the book.

Third, why do you think you're getting NFL instructions? Rub some neurons together and come up with some reasons.

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1) If you actually had kept up with modern sports cash betting (which you no doubt have been unable to beat) you would realize that whatever Waters was doing back then is not going to work to any great degree today. You always like to reference some sort of magic of the old way .. but reality is often they just used numbers because they actually understood the math. That is the key part. It is clear from your prior arguments although you consider yourself a "math guy" you never actually apply it to sports betting. Prove me wrong but it is apparent from what you say.

2) Everyone knows this who knows much beyond his name. Did you have a point?

3) Just typical redietz. He has nothing to say - just makes vague references to nothing specific and insults people.

You could literally make a Saturday Night Live character based on Redietz. Actually there was a character that pretty much nails Redietz to a T but I'll let people rub their few neurons together to figure out the one.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Actually a lot of people have made a lot of money using half-point calculators to estimate the value of mispriced parlays and props, or sometimes just sides.

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But if you are going to hold the absolute standard of EV to always mean the absolute exact expected mathematical value then you have to assume random bets. Meaning you remove all aspect of the sports bet outcomes. So what is his point when he throws that in there? We were talking about sports betting I thought ...

I would love to see him walk through how you can know the EV of sports bets AFTER the event occurred but could not prior? This seems so looney to me I can't even understand what he might be suggesting.

I am fairly certain though there are reasons he won't be explainin' but if he could throw egg on my face I'd be happy for the educatin.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Good try, mickey. Mr. Munchkin mentioned this at lunch some months ago and we briefly discussed it. I was, of course, horrified but not terribly surprised. My first question was, brick-and-mortar legal books? The people being slotted into these book management positions think, like some here, that sporting events are coin flips, and booking is a way to print money.

What you, as usual, fail to mention are the key elements. First is the fact that what is being addressed here are not the offshores which I have been discussing under "Sports and Sports Betting." Second is the fact that this is a RECENT phenomenon by what are considered LEGAL sports books (although Native American books are, by MY definition, straddling the line between "legal" and "not sanctioned'). In other words, this is the last 24 months or so, and it's by "LEGAL" books.

So other than having no idea what I have said on this RECENT alleged shenanigan by ostensibly LEGAL sports books, you covered the topic with your usual thoroughness and depth.

Here's a kicker for you. I have no legal accounts at the moment. I bet in legal sports books without formal accounts. I have been saving any bonuses for a rainy day and also because I know that most them don't know what they are doing. They are out of control, and some are doing some very questionable stuff under the radar. I know this because I was recently offered an under-the-radar futures wager, which I declined. Why? Because had I won it, I felt it was quite possible the wager would be challenged and negated.

The bottom line is that what made offshores both tolerant of winning bettors and long-lived has NOT been grasped or adopted by many of the bean counters running ostensibly legal books. To put it in historical terms -- the mob knows how to run sports books. To put it in Billy Walters terms, which he laid out pretty clearly way back in Munchkin's bio profile of Walters in the Gambling Wizards book, many of the legal alleged bookmakers have no clue. So they rely on semi-legal shenanigans to protect themselves instead having in-house linesmakers with some savvy to organize their business. If there's one thing Walters emphasized in that book, which was not emphasized as clearly in his recent bio, it was that many people managing legal books are inferior to those managing the "illegal" ones.

Now none of this showed up until legalization a couple of years ago, and now you have some execs trying to make their way in the world who really have no idea what they are doing. The casinos basically can't pay people enough to fill their positions with savvy bookmakers, and they think bookmaking is a way to print money, which it has never been...unless you know what you are doing. The people who have been thrust into management positions for some of these new-blood books don't.

Like many people here, they make the fundamental error of assuming betting sports is like coin flipping.

And mickey, thanks for the question and the opportunity to display a little expertise. Much appreciated.

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Thanks for finally admitting the truth. But what you are now saying has been being told by countless other sports bettors long before you.

---

Mickey, get real. The bottom line is you don't know anything vis-a-vis sports betting. You don't know, as the saying goes, your ass from a hole in the ground.

All you're familiar with are a handful of acquaintances and whatever blather shows up on forums and YouTube. You have zero experience and actually know zilch. Maybe, possibly, you learned something from Munchkin, who has a long history with offshores and what was allowed and so on. My history with offshores is longer and more involved.

Why you insist on playing expert is beyond me. Maybe it's a hobo thing. Men of the rails are men of the world and all that.

It's ridiculous to engage you. You know nothing and are proud of it. Here's a challenge for you. Try to decide whether Mickey Crimm 2023, who thought it was a great idea to "be an expert" and attend Bet Bash with all the other experts, was smarter or dumber than Mickey Crimm 2024, who may be realizing that attending something sponsored by Circa called Bet Bash is pretty damned dumb. You can debate yourself. Should take awhile.

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Here's a challenge for you, big fella. Let's bet every NFL game this coming season. I'll give you the choice of taking the favorite or the dog on every game. That will be easy for you because "they ain't coin flips," right?

But when you choose the favorite I get an extra 2 points. On games you choose the dogs I get a 2 point discount.

So if you choose the fav and the line is -7 I get the dog at +9. If you choose the dog and the line is at +7 I get the favorite at -5.

All the decisions will be yours so you should have no trouble fleecing me.

How bout a friendly wager of $100 a game and we bet every regular season game.

Are you up for it or just talking shit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Here's a challenge for you, big fella. Let's bet every NFL game this coming season. I'll give you the choice of taking the favorite or the dog on every game. That will be easy for you because "they ain't coin flips," right?

But when you choose the favorite I get an extra 2 points. On games you choose the dogs I get a 2 point discount.

So if you choose the fav and the line is -7 I get the dog at +9. If you choose the dog and the line is at +7 I get the favorite at -5.

All the decisions will be yours so you should have no trouble fleecing me.

How bout a friendly wager of $100 a game and we bet every regular season game.

Are you up for it or just talking shit?

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C’mon, Dietz. Show us what you got.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Here's a challenge for you, big fella. Let's bet every NFL game this coming season. I'll give you the choice of taking the favorite or the dog on every game. That will be easy for you because "they ain't coin flips," right?

But when you choose the favorite I get an extra 2 points. On games you choose the dogs I get a 2 point discount.

So if you choose the fav and the line is -7 I get the dog at +9. If you choose the dog and the line is at +7 I get the favorite at -5.

All the decisions will be yours so you should have no trouble fleecing me.

How bout a friendly wager of $100 a game and we bet every regular season game.

Are you up for it or just talking shit?

---

C’mon, Dietz. Show us what you got.

---

I made this challenge a week ago. Looks like ditz is just plain out chickenshit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Here's a challenge for you, big fella. Let's bet every NFL game this coming season. I'll give you the choice of taking the favorite or the dog on every game. That will be easy for you because "they ain't coin flips," right?

But when you choose the favorite I get an extra 2 points. On games you choose the dogs I get a 2 point discount.

So if you choose the fav and the line is -7 I get the dog at +9. If you choose the dog and the line is at +7 I get the favorite at -5.

All the decisions will be yours so you should have no trouble fleecing me.

How bout a friendly wager of $100 a game and we bet every regular season game.

Are you up for it or just talking shit?

---

C’mon, Dietz. Show us what you got.

---

I made this challenge a week ago. Looks like ditz is just plain out chickenshit.

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More than likely he's consulting with one of his "university professor" associates on this to see if it's legit or just another AP trick being played on one of the preeminent professional sports handicappers of our time.