Hatred on this Forum

So let's move on to your chart. I don't play poker, but I see poker and blackjack (what I do) as 2 very different things. In poker, somebody at the table has to lose! Your chart reflects such losing players. In blackjack AP, no one has to lose and in the long run, if everyone plays a strong game, there won't be losers like in your chart.

Key words: Long run. For a blackjack AP, 100,000 rounds is not a lifetime. I play 60-70,000 rounds annually and I used to play even more when I was playing lower stakes and really grinding. I'll bet I have had years of 100,000 rounds played. :rolleyes:

I would say it is possible to have 100,000 rounds and be behind. It has never happened to me, but I know players that have had losing years. I personally have had 4 different 6 month periods of losing play, that would be 30-40 thousand rounds, and a couple of those were probably closer to 50,000 rounds.

But a lifetime of blackjack play for an AP is millions of rounds. Notice the plural. And if someone is behind after that amount of play there is something else going on. It is not a case of they are on the lower end of the bell curve....it is a case of holes in their game or chasing losses or some other non-AP issues creeping into their game. One one of the popular blackjack sites, there is a frequent poster who has mentioned that sometimes he is hesitant to throw out his max bet, especially after a loss or two. THAT is the kind of thing that can lead to a losing so-called blackjack AP....holes in your game.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by BadBeet

Yes some win.
Yes some lose.
The difference is with most AP's, they know when to stop, and hopefully stop before the variance kicks in to book a session win.

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Wow, I don't know any AP's that "stop" in order to book a session win. :confused: This kind of stop limits thinking is voodoo to most AP's, myself included, because AP results are about the long run, not a session. :rolleyes:

I do employ "exit triggers" which I am sure the goofball crowd would label stop limits, but they have nothing to do with booking a winning session. Most are about avoiding heat by exiting at strategic times.

I no longer play blackjack rated very often, but I used to and when I did, I would at times do the complete opposite of what you said. If I had a losing session, I would stop in order to book a loss! If you are playing rated, book a loss and get it on your record. Nothing worse than when the pit pulls up your account they see nothing but winning sessions. :(

In addition to the negative optics of that, there is a very...very big danger of digging out from a loss back to even or a small win. This is the type of thing that to a losing gambler feels great. How many times have you heard someone say something along the lines of "I broke even but it feels like a win because I dug out of a big hole"? There are severe dangers in doing that for an AP, especially a card counter blackjack player. That digging out process probably means you showed way too much. You showed your spread and max bet, probably numerous times. Danger! Danger! Will Robinson.

For an AP who does this, the result can often be a back off almost immediately on your next visit. All need happen is for someone to review your play (often after you are gone) and it becomes very obvious. It takes but 1 or 2 of these backoffs very early on the return visit to learn this lesson.

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These post should be quoted, and re-read. Such baloney.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

But a lifetime of blackjack play for an AP is millions of rounds. Notice the plural. And if someone is behind after that amount of play there is something else going on. It is not a case of they are on the lower end of the bell curve....it is a case of holes in their game or chasing losses or some other non-AP issues creeping into their game. One one of the popular blackjack sites, there is a frequent poster who has mentioned that sometimes he is hesitant to throw out his max bet, especially after a loss or two. THAT is the kind of thing that can lead to a losing so-called blackjack AP....holes in your game.

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KJ. It takes 10 years at 100k rounds annually just to get to 1 mil. Just one year at 100k is a load of blackjack. We've both been on that treadmill.

Can you imagine in your wildest dreams of driving 4 to 6 hours just to get to a table and then only staying for 2 or 3 days? And exit or fail to take advantage of a max based on money earned/lost? That is playing scared. I can't see anyone making money playing scared. But I can see a person protecting with a large bankroll playing goofy. Also, a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

So let's move on to your chart. I don't play poker, but I see poker and blackjack (what I do) as 2 very different things. In poker, somebody at the table has to lose! Your chart reflects such losing players. In blackjack AP, no one has to lose and in the long run, if everyone plays a strong game, there won't be losers like in your chart.

Key words: Long run. For a blackjack AP, 100,000 rounds is not a lifetime. I play 60-70,000 rounds annually and I used to play even more when I was playing lower stakes and really grinding. I'll bet I have had years of 100,000 rounds played. :rolleyes:

I would say it is possible to have 100,000 rounds and be behind. It has never happened to me, but I know players that have had losing years. I personally have had 4 different 6 month periods of losing play, that would be 30-40 thousand rounds, and a couple of those were probably closer to 50,000 rounds.

But a lifetime of blackjack play for an AP is millions of rounds. Notice the plural. And if someone is behind after that amount of play there is something else going on. It is not a case of they are on the lower end of the bell curve....it is a case of holes in their game or chasing losses or some other non-AP issues creeping into their game. One one of the popular blackjack sites, there is a frequent poster who has mentioned that sometimes he is hesitant to throw out his max bet, especially after a loss or two. THAT is the kind of thing that can lead to a losing so-called blackjack AP....holes in your game.

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To be commented on, later.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

How can you have legitimate discussions of advantage players and particular AP plays without discussion what players make and value of plays?

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Are you disagreeing with the quote below?

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Originally Posted by jbjb

There's no point in telling these people how much we make.

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You're just pointing out even more of kew's inconsistencies and contradictory statements coach---valid points that will receive no reply. Charlatans have no interest when it comes to clarifying bad statements, and only use their long-winded posts to appease their "fans" while they build up their own self-perceived images in the background.

For instance: Kew tried to perpetrate his bait and switch methodology about using a ceiling mirror to count second tables. Two glaring problems with that made-up lie. First, mirrors diminish views, and the cards will be confusing because they're backwards. And, HELLO KEW MCFLY!...all that does is make the cards DOUBLE THE DISTANCE AWAY.

Sure, there's a few AP's who'll buy his nonsense because they live out virtual theory on these forums. But he knows the BS he's flinging doesn't get by actual educated people.

So speaking of the haters on this site (thread title), last night I ended my workday downtown and had dinner with my brother, who is my blackjack business partner. Afterwards we watched the gay pride parade wind it's way through downtown Vegas. Like all gay pride events, including likely this afternoons festival at Sunset park, there were a handful of protester and haters. I counted 9 that the police had roped off like they were in a cage.

Almost every activity has it's haters. Remember those idiots protesting at the funerals of fallen solders during the Iraq war? :mad:

And the gambling community of forums is no different. We have our AP haters that have found asylum on this site. :(

Makes me wonder, why people are consumed with such hate and anger. That is a sad way to go through life. Get out and enjoy life instead of voicing your bitter jealousy towards others.

And yes, I will be at the festival today, escorted by my straight brother, who is hellbent on fixing me up with someone. So if you are in the Sunset Park area, stop buy and have a beer. Enjoy life. Celebrate diversity. Looking forward to seeing you there Axelwolf. ;) First beer is on you.

I stopped reading at the word hater. Look, you invite those with the meaningless (to us) crap about your life. Rather, you should post up charts and other actual proof. Don't say just that, "I would say... ." It will force you to think more carefully or clearly.

KJ. You're a riot! lmao

KJ is also a very confused and misguided individual. He is unable to recognize that he is very likely the biggest hater on the forum. He makes outlandish claims that he says we HAVE TO believe while asserting that proof "isn't necessary". Subsequently, he badmouths, lies about and hates anybody who asks him the tough questions, then he goes into his babbling rants.

And what's the point about announcing that a few loose screws are pushing their corrupted agenda downtown? The entire country has less than 1.5% who choose to live against proven and known physiological, psychological, and biological laws of nature. So what makes him think any normal person would ever want to be there for some meaningless "diversity"? All I can think of is how embarrassed mommy must be, and how she isn't so supportive of trying to force baby bro into making the same mistakes.

Wise up.

Rob. You're hilarious. LMAO I have a brother 10 years my senior. He was one helluva football player in his day. I'm trying to picture me walking him in a parade and trying to set him up with a dude. There are many birds in this world.

Quick funny story: A buddy of mine was telling me he was hurrying through a casino the other day. He comes around a corner and runs smack into Bill Gay. He was a defensive lineman for the Detroit Lions. My buddy qoutes, "it knocked me backwards about 3 steps and flat on my ass. I just layed there like I was paralyzed." Bill reached down and picked him up like he was a small child.

Whenever kewlj starts in that there are AP haters on this forum this is the episode from The Twilight Zone that comes to mind...

https://youtu.be/l6vfa1SPu5g

Hmmm. Reminds of this huge guy in the sportbook with a small hat size. So one day I ask him, "Pete, how is it such a big dude wears such small hat"?

Well, I tell ya Moses. I was an Astronaut when I was younger. I was at the beach one day. This bottle washes up on shore. I pick it up and rub it. I'll be damned if Barbara Eden doesn't come out with a big puff of smoke. She was so happy to get out of that bottle she was willing to grant me any wish. I said "but Barbara, I have everything I could possibly want, I'm an astronaut, I'm good looking, I have money, nice car, and a big house." She replied "alright, but you can have anything, I mean ANYTHING you want." I looked at her and ask ANYTHING. She replied "O yes MAster ANYTHING!

I said, "alright, how bout a little head."

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Whenever kewlj starts in that there are AP haters on this forum this is the episode from The Twilight Zone that comes to mind...

https://youtu.be/l6vfa1SPu5g

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Uh-oh....another direct hit with the truth.

Oh I agree with the not stopping to book a win... it's a long term thing. I get that completely.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

You're just pointing out even more of kew's inconsistencies and contradictory statements coach---valid points that will receive no reply. Charlatans have no interest when it comes to clarifying bad statements, and only use their long-winded posts to appease their "fans" while they build up their own self-perceived images in the background.

For instance: Kew tried to perpetrate his bait and switch methodology about using a ceiling mirror to count second tables. Two glaring problems with that made-up lie. First, mirrors diminish views, and the cards will be confusing because they're backwards. And, HELLO KEW MCFLY!...all that does is make the cards DOUBLE THE DISTANCE AWAY.

Sure, there's a few AP's who'll buy his nonsense because they live out virtual theory on these forums. But he knows the BS he's flinging doesn't get by actual educated people.

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Inspector Robert Harry Clouseau.

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Originally Posted by Moses

Rob. You're hilarious. LMAO I have a brother 10 years my senior. He was one helluva football player in his day. I'm trying to picture me walking him in a parade and trying to set him up with a dude. There are many birds in this world.

Quick funny story: A buddy of mine was telling me he was hurrying through a casino the other day. He comes around a corner and runs smack into Bill Gay. He was a defensive lineman for the Detroit Lions. My buddy qoutes, "it knocked me backwards about 3 steps and flat on my ass. I just layed there like I was paralyzed." Bill reached down and picked him up like he was a small child.

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That's one type of "gay". Did you ever get a gander at the types of weirdos, wimps, and woeful individuals who show up for these "festivals, marches and parades"? You couldn't find a more despicable group of "people" in a dungeon on another planet.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

That's one type of "gay". Did you ever get a gander at the types of weirdos, wimps, and woeful individuals who show up for these "festivals, marches and parades"? You couldn't find a more despicable group of "people" in a dungeon on another planet.

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Burning Man? If you haven't heard of that one, ask your friend at Pmill. He'll give you a good laugh.

50 years went by pretty much normal. But in the last 8 years, there is rarely a day goes by where I don't say to myself "whoa, never saw that before." :cool:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

So let's move on to your chart. I don't play poker, but I see poker and blackjack (what I do) as 2 very different things. In poker, somebody at the table has to lose! Your chart reflects such losing players. In blackjack AP, no one has to lose and in the long run, if everyone plays a strong game, there won't be losers like in your chart.

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Let's take the poker stuff, first.

That chart posted by BB really says just that if your EV is less than it appears on the surface, and low enough, and, your variance with just the amount you bet is higher than you think, and high enough, then there may be a lot less difference than was initially just suspected, in the long run, between a winner's and loser's results. I conclude with the long run because what sort of loser will fight through another year of that crap, after a year of crap? Computer simulations with perfect input really have very little to do with what you will find in the casino field. Ha, the opposite is so very different with real areas of study such as engineering. You can't throw a building off the street as soon as it starts to make a little more money than you are comfortable with. That chart doesn't speak to an actual closed poker session, with someone up at the end of it.

You neglected to mention that poker has a rake. So does blackjack. I would just look to the baccarat commission on winning banker bets of 5% to compare the banker edge of 1.36% (over player) to the poker rakes of 3, 4, or 5%. The house ends up with a 1.17% edge over the banker (after the commission). The poker player requires at least a 2 percent edge.

But, I would rather play the poker, were I a professional gambler, because only one or two players lose each hand, as the antes are relatively small compared to the action, when it happens, but the whole table of blackjack experts lose more than every other hand to the house. Poker players don't really play against the house (the biggest difference), they can better control (reduce) their own variance, play against players they can consistently profit from, play much richer and more rewarding strategies (that don't lock the other player into set losses), they can come and go with much more strategic precision, etc.

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Originally Posted by Moses

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

That's one type of "gay". Did you ever get a gander at the types of weirdos, wimps, and woeful individuals who show up for these "festivals, marches and parades"? You couldn't find a more despicable group of "people" in a dungeon on another planet.

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Burning Man? If you haven't heard of that one, ask your friend at Pmill. He'll give you a good laugh.

50 years went by pretty much normal. But in the last 8 years, there is rarely a day goes by where I don't say to myself "whoa, never saw that before." :cool:

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Oh yes I know much about the type of "people" who go to Burning Man. After it's over, every weirdo hippie, faggot, transgender nut job, and unemployed beggar combs the parking lots at GSR panhandling for successful/normal people's money. If an A-bomb went off at that gathering of mostly low-lifes, you might get 2 or 3 people come out of the woodwork around the country crying "he was such a GOOD boy" or "she was such a CARING individual who would give anybody the shirt off her back". The rest would just harmlessly fade away into the world of useless nobodys.

Saw on the news last nite- two people shot- one killed on level 3 parking lot at Horseshoe Bossier, LA.