The WoV Thread

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'll give you some grief over the DI thing regnis :)

Right off the bat Frank Scoblete sells it so it has to be impossible. If it were real and attainable, he and all the other shysters would simply use it for profiting in the casinos and not advertise and sell classes for it.

I still don't understand how there can be any "control" or "influence" of any kind, with all those things sticking out of the back wall where your dice are required to hit. And please don't tell me that a "close guess" is good enuf. We were treated to that kind of BS by kew after his two table counting claim was labeled an epic fail and pure nonsense as soon as he regurgitated that the 2nd table count need not be accurate.

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There was no "epic fail." It is really, really lame to say "was proven this" or "was labeled that" when the person doing the labeling or saying or allegedly proving is the author himself. Really lame.

I don't know kewlJ from Adam. I have no idea if he is who he says or supports himself playing blackjack. But I can tell you that counting two tables is possible.

I measured the distances myself and plopped my butt in various middle seats at the Flamingo, and Harrah's, and elsewhere, and I can see the cards with my lousy eyes well enough to tell what they are, given I have an angle of view. For those tables at longer distances, I wouldn't recommend it, but even I can tell "pips from paint." Not my jargon, because I know nothing. So anyway, the cards can be counted unless obstructed.

Now can someone count two games simultaneously? Not unless they've counted before. That's about the only restriction.

So why lie about the clarity of cards at distances at the Flamingo, or Harrah's, or about the difficulty of counting two decks simultaneously? Who knows? Ask Argentino.

If anybody is interested, walk into any of these casinos with a tape measure, a deck of cards, sit at tables, and figure out at what distance you can identify the cards. Easy enough to get to truth of the matter. My eyes are pretty bad. If I can do it, clarity is not an issue. Counting is not an issue. Obstruction of two particular seats is the only issue.

I'll do it again this week at other casinos. It's real tough to actually sit at a table, measure the distance, and figure out if you can see cards. Takes all of 10 minutes.

There is an interesting variance in lighting, so that plays into clarity occasionally. I don't have a light meter, so I can't report on that. Maybe Argentino can do some leg work and use his engineering background to report on the lighting.

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Red, you're so invested in a hatred of me that you let your blind anxiety get the better of you as you flew off in another one of your "anti-Argentino" rages without ever reading the entirety of what was said.

You claim to be able to count two tables because where you went offered unobstructed views of the tables next door. Big Whoop! In the real world you know that ain't happening--just as simultaneous deals and simultaneous card showings ARE happening--which when these facts were brought up it caused Kew to suddenly announce that AN ACCURATE COUNT WAS NOT NECESSARY. Get it? And even an 8th grader knows that if you have an accurate count going at your table then you'd never get up and go to one where guessing is involved. And even if your table's count was bad you'd do far better to stick it out that switch. Kew claims he doesn't like to bring attention to himself.

And there you have it. Be more "accurate" next time.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'll give you some grief over the DI thing regnis :)

Right off the bat Frank Scoblete sells it so it has to be impossible. If it were real and attainable, he and all the other shysters would simply use it for profiting in the casinos and not advertise and sell classes for it.

I still don't understand how there can be any "control" or "influence" of any kind, with all those things sticking out of the back wall where your dice are required to hit. And please don't tell me that a "close guess" is good enuf. We were treated to that kind of BS by kew after his two table counting claim was labeled an epic fail and pure nonsense as soon as he regurgitated that the 2nd table count need not be accurate.

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There was no "epic fail." It is really, really lame to say "was proven this" or "was labeled that" when the person doing the labeling or saying or allegedly proving is the author himself. Really lame.

I don't know kewlJ from Adam. I have no idea if he is who he says or supports himself playing blackjack. But I can tell you that counting two tables is possible.

I measured the distances myself and plopped my butt in various middle seats at the Flamingo, and Harrah's, and elsewhere, and I can see the cards with my lousy eyes well enough to tell what they are, given I have an angle of view. For those tables at longer distances, I wouldn't recommend it, but even I can tell "pips from paint." Not my jargon, because I know nothing. So anyway, the cards can be counted unless obstructed.

Now can someone count two games simultaneously? Not unless they've counted before. That's about the only restriction.

So why lie about the clarity of cards at distances at the Flamingo, or Harrah's, or about the difficulty of counting two decks simultaneously? Who knows? Ask Argentino.

If anybody is interested, walk into any of these casinos with a tape measure, a deck of cards, sit at tables, and figure out at what distance you can identify the cards. Easy enough to get to truth of the matter. My eyes are pretty bad. If I can do it, clarity is not an issue. Counting is not an issue. Obstruction of two particular seats is the only issue.

I'll do it again this week at other casinos. It's real tough to actually sit at a table, measure the distance, and figure out if you can see cards. Takes all of 10 minutes.

There is an interesting variance in lighting, so that plays into clarity occasionally. I don't have a light meter, so I can't report on that. Maybe Argentino can do some leg work and use his engineering background to report on the lighting.

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Red, you're so invested in a hatred of me that you let your blind anxiety get the better of you as you flew off in another one of your "anti-Argentino" rages without ever reading the entirety of what was said.

You claim to be able to count two tables because where you went offered unobstructed views of the tables next door. Big Whoop! In the real world you know that ain't happening--just as simultaneous deals and simultaneous card showings ARE happening--which when these facts were brought up it caused Kew to suddenly announce that AN ACCURATE COUNT WAS NOT NECESSARY. Get it? And even an 8th grader knows that if you have an accurate count going at your table then you'd never get up and go to one where guessing is involved. And even if your table's count was bad you'd do far better to stick it out that switch. Kew claims he doesn't like to bring attention to himself.

And there you have it. Be more "accurate" next time.

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Argentino, have you actually consulted any blackjack books regarding this? An exact count is not necessary. "Accurate" has a range of meanings. Certainly, the count has to be ballpark, so in that sense it has to "accurate." But it does not have to "exact" or "precise."

I defer to anyone who has ever played blackjack to explain what is wrong with the sentences, "And even an 8th grader knows that if you have an accurate count going at one table then you'd never get up and go to one where guessing is involved. And even if your table's count is bad you'd do far better to stick it out than switch."

I hope after reading the above, you realize what you wrote is wrong.

I'm not even going to pile on regarding this, as you do not play blackjack.

I love it when I hear an accurate count is not necessary in blackjack. So... how many rolls of the dice do I need to be a good DI? And if an accurate count is not needed in blackjack what's the acceptable range in craps?

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Originally Posted by redietz

I'm not even going to pile on regarding this, as you do not play blackjack.

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When did you become a reliable source of information about BJ APing?

Shouldn't you be busy collecting 6 figure sports winnings from off shore illegal banking gambling sites?

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'm not sure what you're saying, and which machines you're referring to. I don't know on slots (I'm guessing your reply refers to slots and not vp because you mentioned a "designed hold"), but on the vp machines there's a page on the menu that brings up "coin in" (say 3,567,418) and "coin out" (say 3,194,202). These are actual numbers converted to the machine's lowest denomination.

This is what I was told at South Point anyway. Seems to make sense.

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A typical penny slot will have five betting levels. If it's 60 cents, $1.20, $1.80, $2.40, $3, then when you make a 60 cent bet the coin-in meter will click up 60 pennies. If you make a $1.20 bet it will click up 120 pennies, etc.

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We finally agree on something....besides Hillary.

I'm not agreeing with what Alan seems to be saying but it might be because I'm not understanding him. When there's a page showing coin in & coin out on the menu inside the VP machine, a simple calculation does indeed provide the actual hold of the machine. This, and what I said above, is exactly what I was told at SP.

This also would corroborate how the analyses were done after the FPDW etc. 25c/50c/$1 I got put into Wynn around 2005 were removed. I was there when they were recording coin in & coin out, and that's what they used for their analysis of the overall profit they made (aka, hold)--which I wrote an article about in GT that was first approved by Wynn mgmt.

That was 13 years ago, but the menu on those machines looked exactly the same as the menu I saw on the machine I assaulted at SP.

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I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

A typical penny slot will have five betting levels. If it's 60 cents, $1.20, $1.80, $2.40, $3, then when you make a 60 cent bet the coin-in meter will click up 60 pennies. If you make a $1.20 bet it will click up 120 pennies, etc.

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We finally agree on something....besides Hillary.

I'm not agreeing with what Alan seems to be saying but it might be because I'm not understanding him. When there's a page showing coin in & coin out on the menu inside the VP machine, a simple calculation does indeed provide the actual hold of the machine. This, and what I said above, is exactly what I was told at SP.

This also would corroborate how the analyses were done after the FPDW etc. 25c/50c/$1 I got put into Wynn around 2005 were removed. I was there when they were recording coin in & coin out, and that's what they used for their analysis of the overall profit they made (aka, hold)--which I wrote an article about in GT that was first approved by Wynn mgmt.

That was 13 years ago, but the menu on those machines looked exactly the same as the menu I saw on the machine I assaulted at SP.

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I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

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Something else you can be proud of....

I was trained by the govt to handle two or three at a time back then, or one armed assailant. None of that really matters though, because a bar room brawler would much more than likely be impaired, stupid, and undisciplined. You to a tee.

I've ended two professionals in two fights back then overseas. What's your score against drunks?

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by redietz

I'm not even going to pile on regarding this, as you do not play blackjack.

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When did you become a reliable source of information about BJ APing?

Shouldn't you be busy collecting 6 figure sports winnings from off shore illegal banking gambling sites?

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He isn't. He's just pretending because Alan got under his skin over this. And can't you just wait for redietz to come up with these six pros lurking on the streets of LV for his reality TV show? It's a good bet he's talking about bus drivers.

Oh, you can forget about him explaining those six figure overseas illegal accounts also. You might have missed where he already did a lousy job trying to talk his way out of it.

Red, do you know how foolish you sound by claiming the count need not be accurate? Do you know how tiny the advantage is with a 100% accurate count? And if you miss even one hand at the table next door, you have zero idea how far off your count is. This is not hand grenades, horseshoes, or an apple pie throwing contest. But I understand--the "AP" could still pile up the phantom bucks when he has "his best day of the year" losing $9700 this time.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Had an interesting conversation on the phone today with a gaming enforcement agent.

First, I called the NGC explaining my request for direction to regulations on slot machine hold information. She transferred me to enforcement and I was contacted with a very kind gentleman who appeared in no hurry to blow me off the phone. In fact, I explained quickly the AP claims on forums and how I was usually a doubtful naysayer. He laughed and seemed engaged in my conversation.

I asked him about the hold on slot machines and if a slot attendant could while inside a machine expose that information on the screen. The answer was yes. He said there are all different types of machines and some may have that access while plenty also won’t while scrolling through different tabs by a slot attendant. Changing the preset hold is not possible. That requires a different type of access into the machine.

I than asked him about the claims of AP’s beating slot machines out right. He said there are many cases where new machines come out and even the manufacturers weren’t aware of some winning glitch accidently created. They are always aware of this possibility and will keep close eyes on the performance of new machines for quite awhile and will in most all cases correct the glitch.

I asked about knowing when to play must hit jackpot machines. He said it’s not that hard to figure out when it would be an advantage to play those type machines, but you still need luck. He explained how you’ll see AP teams come and try to take a bank of jackpot machines, but they also need luck. He said he saw cases where 8 team players were banging away and one of the two regulars ending up hitting it.

I asked about making enough money beating machines to make a living off of it. He laughed and said what type of living are we talking about? I responded with a respectable one, you know, house, car, college tuition, retirement, health care, vacations etc. He laughed again and said of course anything is possible. He said those stories are like fishing stories. Every once in awhile someone does catch the big one. The ability to pull that off is not an enforcement concern.

He then volunteered more conversation, saying casino offerings to attract customers create many issues. I asked for details, and all he said was the issues were caused by the casinos marketing department not the machines. In several cases enforcement gets called in. He said nothing about player cards and I certainly didn’t either.

He went on to say AP exists and all casinos are aware of it. His department doesn’t usually get involved unless their contacted by the casinos or players and cheating is suspected.

That was pretty much it from what I remember. We actually threw the bull for a little while. I was impressed when he brought up the AP teams, which I guess means they see it happening and don’t care.

edit to add: We talked about the Phil Ivey baccarat move, and his response was shame on the casinos.

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Casinos don't like teams. Never have and never will. Tuna Lund got pitched out of several places for running his team in them. But he was a total monopolizer. One of the things learned over the years was not to monopolize all the machines on a progressive to keep the heat off.

I find it strange that you asked him about advantage play and he started talking about machine glitches. That's not advantage play. It's knowingly playing a malfunctioning machine and is highly illegal. Advantage play is using legitimate strategy to get the edge on casino. It's not a crime.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

We finally agree on something....besides Hillary.

I'm not agreeing with what Alan seems to be saying but it might be because I'm not understanding him. When there's a page showing coin in & coin out on the menu inside the VP machine, a simple calculation does indeed provide the actual hold of the machine. This, and what I said above, is exactly what I was told at SP.

This also would corroborate how the analyses were done after the FPDW etc. 25c/50c/$1 I got put into Wynn around 2005 were removed. I was there when they were recording coin in & coin out, and that's what they used for their analysis of the overall profit they made (aka, hold)--which I wrote an article about in GT that was first approved by Wynn mgmt.

That was 13 years ago, but the menu on those machines looked exactly the same as the menu I saw on the machine I assaulted at SP.

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I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

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Something else you can be proud of....

I was trained by the govt to handle two or three at a time back then, or one armed assailant. None of that really matters though, because a bar room brawler would much more than likely be impaired, stupid, and undisciplined. You to a tee.

I've ended two professionals in two fights back then overseas. What's your score against drunks?

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C'mon, Robbie. I wouldn't even hit ya. I'd just grab you by the back of your neck and slam your face into the floor. Takes care of the nose, teeth, blackeyes, everything.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

I asked about making enough money beating machines to make a living off of it. He laughed and said what type of living are we talking about? I responded with a respectable one, you know, house, car, college tuition, retirement, health care, vacations etc. He laughed again and said of course anything is possible. He said those stories are like fishing stories. Every once in awhile someone does catch the big one. The ability to pull that off is not an enforcement concern.

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Alan... Thanks for correcting me about the craps tables. I thought the old ones had slate. However that wasn't my point. I was just saying that some tables seemed to be easier for players to stop the dice compared to other tables.

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For just about two years posting on WoV and now on this site I have basically said the same thing. If you want to do things straight in Vegas you are looking at about 8 to 20 dollars an hour on average. You should be able to eat for free and get some other freebies. This isn't to say some players haven't found more lucrative opportunities like MC, AxelWolf, RS, KewlJ, Maxpen and others. My point is that it isn't the norm. These players may have figured ways out to make 100s of dollars per hour but you can be sure that at times they have to do things they would consider grey or what they call grey. Even if they do everything by the book and average 100 or more per hour it is not the norm. For the most part even the players who are very good and making around 20 dollars per hour are not the norm in the AP world. It is a very difficult way of life and more so difficult these days. 20 years ago or even before... yes the money was flowing but even at that time players were getting barred from the players club and having all sorts of problems. You can't just walk in constantly and beat the Casino over and over without problems. This is why some of the smart guys who made a few million ran crews and bunches of players going in and taking advantage of promotions and coupons. If you research a few of these smart guys you will see that it eventually caught up with them as well and they are not welcome in most Casinos these days and the door keeps closing on them. Of course once you make a few million and are pretty well set I can understand that it is a fair trade off.

Someone like myself or others like me didn't push plays as hard or didn't have the ambition some of these other guys have or had. I was always happy making 50 or 100 a day and not having any problems or heat. I still feel that way today. Of course when I found key promotions or spots like Over Pays I did punish them but I had a decent knack of getting out early or before issues arose. During that period it wasn't hard to walk across the street and bang on something else. For the most part and I would say 90% of the APs I know or know about are broke and own nothing. They live for the next play or they have other problems and leaks like drinking, drugs, whore mongering, sports book, dice... etc etc. This isn't that hard to imagine anyway. Even the average square honest Joe has the same issues in life. IMO Advantage Play or professional gambling is no different than any other job that would be considered working the street.

This idea that the norm is that APs make 100s of thousands a year and are living the high life 24/7 is fairy tale land. No different than running a business which is proven that most people fail at. Even the ones who can make a profit running a business aren't huge successes for the most part... many of them wind up working 16 hour days making 15 dollars an hour with no benefits and usually up to their eyeballs in hock. Same goes for many APs... up to their eyeballs in hock and loans.

Edit: Even the smartest guy on the web who calls himself the Wizard of Odds falls into problems with leaks. If you follow his posts on WoV you will see where he had so much money he didn't know what to do with it and was betting tens of thousands on bets that are winners in the long run but have monster variance and when you can only bet them once per year it makes things difficult. Even he isn't a robot when it comes to the emotions of Vegas.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Good info.

What this confirms about how casinos view AP's with what I've said and have written about for years, is that casinos indeed are aware of the AP's. This in turn tells me they have no qualms about offering up all those lucrative sounding/theoretically "+EV" promotions when they know the AP's will jump all over them with as much cash as they can come up with, and play them for as long as they appear to be positive.

The question of course is, while most AP's don't talk publicly about what they do where and how they do, people like Dancer regularly do--and he toots in his articles about how he makes tons of money off of the casinos. So....is this really believable? Can he really be hammering them into the ground while he rapes their slot clubs and giveaway depts., and all they do is look the other way while they keep on inviting him in to do even more damage?

When simple common sense takes over, the answer is of course, simple.

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Rob, could you go over some of those promotions and give us the particulars on them to give us an idea of what you are talking about?

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I find it strange that you asked him about advantage play and he started talking about machine glitches. That's not advantage play. It's knowingly playing a malfunctioning machine and is highly illegal. Advantage play is using legitimate strategy to get the edge on casino. It's not a crime.

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Machine glitches was a response to this question I’m going to quote, not about AP. “Quote” “I than asked him about the claims of AP’s beating slot machines out right. He said there are many cases where new machines come out and even the manufacturers weren’t aware of some winning glitch accidently created. They are always aware of this possibility and will keep close eyes on the performance of new machines for quite awhile and will in most all cases correct the glitch.”

His quote above was pretty much word for word how he responded to beating a machine outright. What I took from that was the machine will always get what it has to unless it’s malfunctioning. I think your confusing picking off two-bit jackpots left by people who probably couldn’t care less about them, with beating a machine.

Also, we spoke of VP real briefly and he said he was sure I knew the pay scales are right on the screen, which of course I acknowledged.

My take from our conversation was he was totally current on AP’s, and admitted it exists. He seemed well advised about it, yet, didn’t seem concerned about nor did he ever ask me anything or even appear interested in what I may have known from forums.

I think casinos do their own surveillance and make their own decisions on AP.

I think Monet’s last post above hit the nail on the head. Theirs lots of things in life that happened which could be related to the good ole days and the opportunities are just not that plentiful anymore. Why should AP’ing be any different.

I agree with Bill Yung’s quote “ I guess the so-called AP's here and there think they are some sort of experts while they post up obviously crappy excuses and lives, whereas, people with real lives from the real world continue to demonstrate no need or want to prove, identify, or talk at length about, anything/one.”

It’s the bullshit being thrown around on these sites like Redietz and his or whoever’s 6 figure winnings from off shore illegal USA banking transactions casinos. The broken-down Wizard himself, Meatball Mike being forced to place a tin cup on his AP forum for donations. Kewlj with his BJ bullshit while demonstrating his mental disorders. Most of all the other alleged AP’s on these forums that offer nothing but one-line insults to doubters because they have nothing else. I could go on and on with the nonsense.

To me it sounds like the alleged AP’s that belong to these sites in this day and age could only be to hopefully get a free play or recruit others for help so they could keep eating and pay rent.

Remember one of the alleged self proclaimed kings of AP's at the WOV for years, the one and only WON was making so much money he had to rip people off. You just can't make this shit up.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

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What do you mean you "don't want to piss off all the ap's?" You never had a problem with it before. C'mon, analyze some promotions, Rob. You're supposed to be a gambling professional. Or it could be...no...well....maybe....is it....because....you...don't....know ....how....to....analyze....promotions? Say it ain't so, Rob, say it ain't so.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I find it strange that you asked him about advantage play and he started talking about machine glitches. That's not advantage play. It's knowingly playing a malfunctioning machine and is highly illegal. Advantage play is using legitimate strategy to get the edge on casino. It's not a crime.

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Machine glitches was a response to this question I’m going to quote, not about AP. “Quote” “I than asked him about the claims of AP’s beating slot machines out right. He said there are many cases where new machines come out and even the manufacturers weren’t aware of some winning glitch accidently created. They are always aware of this possibility and will keep close eyes on the performance of new machines for quite awhile and will in most all cases correct the glitch.”

His quote above was pretty much word for word how he responded to beating a machine outright. What I took from that was the machine will always get what it has to unless it’s malfunctioning. I think your confusing picking off two-bit jackpots left by people who probably couldn’t care less about them, with beating a machine.

Also, we spoke of VP real briefly and he said he was sure I knew the pay scales are right on the screen, which of course I acknowledged.

My take from our conversation was he was totally current on AP’s, and admitted it exists. He seemed well advised about it, yet, didn’t seem concerned about nor did he ever ask me anything or even appear interested in what I may have known from forums.

I think casinos do their own surveillance and make their own decisions on AP.

I think Monet’s last post above hit the nail on the head. Theirs lots of things in life that happened which could be related to the good ole days and the opportunities are just not that plentiful anymore. Why should AP’ing be any different.

I agree with Bill Yung’s quote “ I guess the so-called AP's here and there think they are some sort of experts while they post up obviously crappy excuses and lives, whereas, people with real lives from the real world continue to demonstrate no need or want to prove, identify, or talk at length about, anything/one.”

It’s the bullshit being thrown around on these sites like Redietz and his or whoever’s 6 figure winnings from off shore illegal USA banking transactions casinos. The broken-down Wizard himself, Meatball Mike being forced to place a tin cup on his AP forum for donations. Kewlj with his BJ bullshit while demonstrating his mental disorders. Most of all the other alleged AP’s on these forums that offer nothing but one-line insults to doubters because they have nothing else. I could go on and on with the nonsense.

To me it sounds like the alleged AP’s that belong to these sites in this day and age could only be to hopefully get a free play or recruit others for help so they could keep eating and pay rent.

Remember one of the alleged self proclaimed kings of AP's at the WOV for years, the one and only WON was making so much money he had to rip people off. You just can't make this shit up.

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You may as well be talking about restaurant owners. I think it's the business that has the highest failure rate. Something like 90%. Advantage play is a tough nut to crack too. Most fail. Some just exist. A few excell. Probably not even 1 out of a 100 make it in the trade. I'm one of those 1%'ers. What you and others believe has nothing to do with it. Go ahead with your belief that it can't be done. Doesn't bother me. I'll still just keep on keeping on. Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

The inabilty/refusal to learn is the soul of ignorance. Long held beliefs are hard to change. Galileo spent the last ten years of his life under house arrest for simply explaining to the world that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the other way around. People were clamoring for his execution. I'm sure, blackhole, that had you been around back then you would have been one of them.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Galileo spent the last ten years of his life under house arrest for simply explaining to the world that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the other way around. People were clamoring for his execution. I'm sure, blackhole, that had you been around back then you would have been one of them.

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http://time.com/7809/1-in-4-american...-orbits-earth/

Nice article tableplay. I'd be willing to lay odds that the 25% of Americans that didn't know the correct answer were all Hillary voters also. Snowflake is a mild adjective for these fucking idiots.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

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At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read. Whether you believe him or not all you have to do is study it and go try for yourself.

What you're doing in Montana seems doable. Certainly not worth the money or time to go there and see if you're actually knocking off two-bit jackpots.

Monet explained how to take advantage in black and white of mailings. Personally, that thread sounds like an AP starter kit for loser’s living in Vegas. He also seems to expose many truths about the rugged life it appears to be for most.

Most people go to Vegas for a good time. Its usually a trip planned well in advance. It’s about using the casinos for full blown entertainment. Being treated like a king, spas, massages, RFB, great shows, gambling, then coming home and getting back to business.

Of course, everyone hopes to win and do sometimes. We’re not looking or worried about getting a free meal. We don’t give a shit about getting mail. By the time we go back it’s all expired anyway. We’re not going there to earn x amount of dollars per hour. We don’t know about promotions, and certainly don’t expect to sit down for hours on end shoveling money into one machine while playing another one next to it for a couple of plus EV points.

Maybe some of you are killing it. Good for you. It seems like not such a hard career to get involved in. Look at all the admitted un-educated homeless, drifters, etc. that claim they are doing it successfully. Obviously, a college education is not a prerequisite. In fact, I don’t think high school is even required.

Look at Meatball Mike, with all that education and math knowledge. He proved to everyone how it didn’t do him any good. He lost everything and had to beg for money from the same idiots reading his bullshit. Think how stupid this actually is. You're going to help someone out who's teaching you how to loose your own money. After all, he did loose his.

Banking my families future and health on casino promotions and luck, is just not my way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

---

At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read. Whether you believe him or not all you have to do is study it and go try for yourself.

What you're doing in Montana seems doable. Certainly not worth the money or time to go there and see if you're actually knocking off two-bit jackpots.

Monet explained how to take advantage in black and white of mailings. Personally, that thread sounds like an AP starter kit for loser’s livings in Vegas. He also seems to expose many truths about the rugged life it appears to be for most.

Most people go to Vegas for a good time. Its usually a trip planned well in advance. It’s about using the casinos for full blown entertainment. Being treated like a king, spas, massages, RFB, great shows, gambling, then coming home and getting back to business.

Of course, everyone hopes to win and do sometimes. We’re not looking or worried about getting a free meal. We don’t give a shit about getting mail. By the time we go back it’s all expired anyway. We’re not going there to earn x amount of dollars per hour. We don’t know about promotions, and certainly don’t expect to sit down for hours on end shoveling money into one machine while playing another one next to it for a couple of plus EV points.

Maybe some of you are killing it. Good for you. It seems like not such a hard career to get involved in. Look at all the admitted un-educated homeless, drifters, etc. that claim they are doing it successfully. Obviously, a college education is not a prerequisite. In fact, I don’t think high school is even required.

Look at Meatball Mike, with all that education and math knowledge. He proved to everyone how it didn’t do him any good. He lost everything and had to beg for money from the same idiots reading his bullshit. Think how stupid this actually is. You're going to help someone out who's teaching you how to loose your own money. After all, he did loose his.

Banking my families future and health on casino promotions and luck, is just not my way.

---

That is a very good post, and totally agree with most of it....the only thing you fucked up on is bringing up education...you were on a good roll and making a lot of good points until you brought that up...but I must commend you...your spelling and grammar seems to have improved since last time I checked on you...very few misspelled words....by the way it’s “lose”, not “loose”....loose is when something is not fastened securely....but all in all, a good job...you’re really improving...another month and you should be ready for the GED test

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

---

At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read. Whether you believe him or not all you have to do is study it and go try for yourself.

What you're doing in Montana seems doable. Certainly not worth the money or time to go there and see if you're actually knocking off two-bit jackpots.

Monet explained how to take advantage in black and white of mailings. Personally, that thread sounds like an AP starter kit for loser’s living in Vegas. He also seems to expose many truths about the rugged life it appears to be for most.

Most people go to Vegas for a good time. Its usually a trip planned well in advance. It’s about using the casinos for full blown entertainment. Being treated like a king, spas, massages, RFB, great shows, gambling, then coming home and getting back to business.

Of course, everyone hopes to win and do sometimes. We’re not looking or worried about getting a free meal. We don’t give a shit about getting mail. By the time we go back it’s all expired anyway. We’re not going there to earn x amount of dollars per hour. We don’t know about promotions, and certainly don’t expect to sit down for hours on end shoveling money into one machine while playing another one next to it for a couple of plus EV points.

Maybe some of you are killing it. Good for you. It seems like not such a hard career to get involved in. Look at all the admitted un-educated homeless, drifters, etc. that claim they are doing it successfully. Obviously, a college education is not a prerequisite. In fact, I don’t think high school is even required.

Look at Meatball Mike, with all that education and math knowledge. He proved to everyone how it didn’t do him any good. He lost everything and had to beg for money from the same idiots reading his bullshit. Think how stupid this actually is. You're going to help someone out who's teaching you how to loose your own money. After all, he did loose his.

Banking my families future and health on casino promotions and luck, is just not my way.

---

Yes, I would say I have a lack of education. Didn't even graduate from high school. But I do have an aptitude in math which works out great in AP. Here's one problem I had to solve on a game. It is a video keno game that I have made $120,000 on over the last 10 years. It's just one of the Montana games I AP'd and represented about 20% of my overall income. In analyzing the game here is one problem I had to solve:

You have 80 balls in a keno tank. And 80 balls are drawn. You are playing one way of 3 and one way of 4. What is the chance you will catch at least 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot and at least 2 out of 4 in the 4-spot. By "at least 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot " I mean you have to catch either 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 3. And by "at least 2 out of 4 in the 4-spot" I mean you have to catch either 2 out of 4, 3 out of 4, 4 out of 4.

Blackhole, AP'ing is not as easy as you think it is. These are the kind of problems you have to be able to solve. You can't get the answer to the above problem on any keno calculator on the internet. You can ask in the forums for an answer but I never did. I solved the problem for myself.

So, blackhole, do you have an answer to the above problem? What do you think the frequency is? Shouldn't take you long to give an answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read.

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Video poker strategy is all over the internet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

So, blackhole, do you have an answer to the above problem? What do you think the frequency is? Shouldn't take you long to give an answer.

---

Yes, I have two balls and that's a fact.

Those are the problems you have to solve. Than hope your stars are aligned and the balls don't fuck ya. Because you say it should happen, it still has to happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

---

Here's a chance to piss them all off, Rob. A little quiz on your video poker knowledge. If you are a video poker expert you will know the answer off the top of your head. No research needed.

There is a daily drawing at Brand X Casino. It's starts everyday at noon. Once an hour they draw for a winner of $100. They do this once an hour until 10 PM. You get a drawing ticket FOR EVERY PAYOUT THAT IS AT LEAST 125 COINS at video poker. This is a small casino maybe 50 video poker machines. There are no multi-line games. So you can only play single line games. There is only quarter, 50 cent and $1 denom. The games available for you to play are:

9/6 Jacks
FPDW
FPJW
9/7 Double Bonus
9/6 Double Double Bonus
8/5 Bonus Poker
7/5 Flush Attack
9/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9/5 Super Double Bonus
9/5 Triple Bonus Poker Plus
9/5 White Hot Aces

Rob, on the above list what is the best game to play on this promotion? Like I said, it doesn't take any research if you are an expert. You should know the answer off the top of your head.

Everyone give Rob a chance to answer before you give your own answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

So, blackhole, do you have an answer to the above problem? What do you think the frequency is? Shouldn't take you long to give an answer.

---

Yes, I have two balls and that's a fact.

Those are the problems you have to solve. Than hope your stars are aligned and the balls don't fuck ya. Because you say it should happen, it still has to happen.

---

Yes, that's how the casino does it too, right? They have an edge on a game and they hope their lucky stars align to make a profit? Can't solve the problem can you? LOL! So you give a bullshit answer. HAHAHA! There's a lot more to AP than you have the ability to do.

C’mon Mickey, stop the nonsense. You're really making yourself look like a fool.

Did you jump off the wagon? That would explain your behavior.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

---

Here's a chance to piss them all off, Rob. A little quiz on your video poker knowledge. If you are a video poker expert you will know the answer off the top of your head. No research needed.

There is a daily drawing at Brand X Casino. It's starts everyday at noon. Once an hour they draw for a winner of $100. They do this once an hour until 10 PM. You get a drawing ticket FOR EVERY PAYOUT THAT IS AT LEAST 125 COINS at video poker. This is a small casino maybe 50 video poker machines. There are no multi-line games. So you can only play single line games. There is only quarter, 50 cent and $1 denom. The games available for you to play are:

9/6 Jacks
FPDW
FPJW
9/7 Double Bonus
9/6 Double Double Bonus
8/5 Bonus Poker
7/5 Flush Attack
9/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9/5 Super Double Bonus
9/5 Triple Bonus Poker Plus
9/5 White Hot Aces

Rob, on the above list what is the best game to play on this promotion? Like I said, it doesn't take any research if you are an expert. You should know the answer off the top of your head.

Everyone give Rob a chance to answer before you give your own answer.

---

Mickey, I don't play JoB because it's a loser's game, but those who play for the free beanies with propellers on top do.

It's curious that you admit to not having a high school diploma, to being a life long alcoholic, to being unable to leave bars until they throw you out at closing time, to getting in drunken brawls at these bars, to being a hobo and a hitch hiker in Nevada, to living in your car now, to have had "lots" of experience with hookers, to rarely having had a normal job throughout your lifetime, and to being forced to activate Rosey Palmer because you've been such a turn-off to women your whole life.

What's amazing is how you believe you have this skill of being able to make money by analyzing two-bit games, and that the paltry living and lonely life you have does anything to anyone other than to have mounds of sympathy for you. We DO notice that this stuff here is your whole life. And don't get me started on your fantasy fascination with that slob Tuna guy....

Truly, that's how you portray yourself on the message boards. I'd invite you over for Thanksgiving if I could be certain you wouldn't wreck the place after your first 30-pak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

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Something else you can be proud of....

I was trained by the govt to handle two or three at a time back then, or one armed assailant. None of that really matters though, because a bar room brawler would much more than likely be impaired, stupid, and undisciplined. You to a tee.

I've ended two professionals in two fights back then overseas. What's your score against drunks?

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C'mon, Robbie. I wouldn't even hit ya. I'd just grab you by the back of your neck and slam your face into the floor. Takes care of the nose, teeth, blackeyes, everything.

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OK mickey....you win the virtual battle on the internet. You are a ferocious brute!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

C’mon Mickey, stop the nonsense. You're really making yourself look like a fool.

Did you jump off the wagon? That would explain your behavior.

---

Here, I'll make it easier on ya. What's the frequency of catching all 3 numbers in the 3-spot along with 2 or more numbers in the 4-spot?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

---

Here's a chance to piss them all off, Rob. A little quiz on your video poker knowledge. If you are a video poker expert you will know the answer off the top of your head. No research needed.

There is a daily drawing at Brand X Casino. It's starts everyday at noon. Once an hour they draw for a winner of $100. They do this once an hour until 10 PM. You get a drawing ticket FOR EVERY PAYOUT THAT IS AT LEAST 125 COINS at video poker. This is a small casino maybe 50 video poker machines. There are no multi-line games. So you can only play single line games. There is only quarter, 50 cent and $1 denom. The games available for you to play are:

9/6 Jacks
FPDW
FPJW
9/7 Double Bonus
9/6 Double Double Bonus
8/5 Bonus Poker
7/5 Flush Attack
9/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9/5 Super Double Bonus
9/5 Triple Bonus Poker Plus
9/5 White Hot Aces

Rob, on the above list what is the best game to play on this promotion? Like I said, it doesn't take any research if you are an expert. You should know the answer off the top of your head.

Everyone give Rob a chance to answer before you give your own answer.

---

Mickey, I don't play JoB because it's a loser's game, but those who play for the free beanies with propellers on top do.

It's curious that you admit to not having a high school diploma, to being a life long alcoholic, to being unable to leave bars until they throw you out at closing time, to getting in drunken brawls at these bars, to being a hobo and a hitch hiker in Nevada, to living in your car now, to have had "lots" of experience with hookers, to rarely having had a normal job throughout your lifetime, and to being forced to activate Rosey Palmer because you've been such a turn-off to women your whole life.

What's amazing is how you believe you have this skill of being able to make money by analyzing two-bit games, and that the paltry living and lonely life you have does anything to anyone other than to have mounds of sympathy for you. We DO notice that this stuff here is your whole life. And don't get me started on your fantasy fascination with that slob Tuna guy....

Truly, that's how you portray yourself on the message boards. I'd invite you over for Thanksgiving if I could be certain you wouldn't wreck the place after your first 30-pak.

---

You're deflecting, Rob. You don't know the answer. And I have a few of your games listed.C'mon slobbie, give us an answer.A video poker expert like you should know the answer off the top of your head.

A couple of rules I forgot to list on the video poker promotion. You can win the drawing multiple times and the drum is emptied out every night.

You got your answer--your promo is straight out of fantasyland. I wouldn't play in any promotion even if the prize for hitting a 125 credit or larger winner, was the opportunity to run another nail thru you onto a rotted out piece of wood!

And what's with the "slobbie" namecalling anyway? Don't you know how sensitive I am to such antics....esp. when I'm off doing personal things?

The NERVE!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

You got your answer--your promo is straight out of fantasyland. I wouldn't play in any promotion even if the prize for hitting a 125 credit or larger winner, was the opportunity to run another nail thru you onto a rotted out piece of wood!

And what's with the "slobbie" namecalling anyway? Don't you know how sensitive I am to such antics....esp. when I'm off doing personal things?

The NERVE!!

---

I worked this promotion at the Carsin Valley Inn. You pass yourself off as a video poker expert so give us the answer. Video poker experts have no problem giving the answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'll give you some grief over the DI thing regnis :)

Right off the bat Frank Scoblete sells it so it has to be impossible. If it were real and attainable, he and all the other shysters would simply use it for profiting in the casinos and not advertise and sell classes for it.

I still don't understand how there can be any "control" or "influence" of any kind, with all those things sticking out of the back wall where your dice are required to hit. And please don't tell me that a "close guess" is good enuf. We were treated to that kind of BS by kew after his two table counting claim was labeled an epic fail and pure nonsense as soon as he regurgitated that the 2nd table count need not be accurate.

---

I had read about Scoblete and the dice control school and all of that. But in watching the videos and some of the students, I never liked the way they threw the dice. I always felt there was too much spin on the rebound off the wall.

But I don't think you have played enough dice to ascertain whether any form of control could be done. As I said in another thread (or maybe somewhere in this one), put the time and effort into it and you would be surprised what can be done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

---

Here's a chance to piss them all off, Rob. A little quiz on your video poker knowledge. If you are a video poker expert you will know the answer off the top of your head. No research needed.

There is a daily drawing at Brand X Casino. It's starts everyday at noon. Once an hour they draw for a winner of $100. They do this once an hour until 10 PM. You get a drawing ticket FOR EVERY PAYOUT THAT IS AT LEAST 125 COINS at video poker. This is a small casino maybe 50 video poker machines. There are no multi-line games. So you can only play single line games. There is only quarter, 50 cent and $1 denom. The games available for you to play are:

9/6 Jacks
FPDW
FPJW
9/7 Double Bonus
9/6 Double Double Bonus
8/5 Bonus Poker
7/5 Flush Attack
9/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9/5 Super Double Bonus
9/5 Triple Bonus Poker Plus
9/5 White Hot Aces

Rob, on the above list what is the best game to play on this promotion? Like I said, it doesn't take any research if you are an expert. You should know the answer off the top of your head.

Everyone give Rob a chance to answer before you give your own answer.

---

Mickey, I don't play JoB because it's a loser's game, but those who play for the free beanies with propellers on top do.

It's curious that you admit to not having a high school diploma, to being a life long alcoholic, to being unable to leave bars until they throw you out at closing time, to getting in drunken brawls at these bars, to being a hobo and a hitch hiker in Nevada, to living in your car now, to have had "lots" of experience with hookers, to rarely having had a normal job throughout your lifetime, and to being forced to activate Rosey Palmer because you've been such a turn-off to women your whole life.

What's amazing is how you believe you have this skill of being able to make money by analyzing two-bit games, and that the paltry living and lonely life you have does anything to anyone other than to have mounds of sympathy for you. We DO notice that this stuff here is your whole life. And don't get me started on your fantasy fascination with that slob Tuna guy....

Truly, that's how you portray yourself on the message boards. I'd invite you over for Thanksgiving if I could be certain you wouldn't wreck the place after your first 30-pak.

---

This is one of the first attacks on Mickey, where you failed to mention his dental plan!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by regnis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'll give you some grief over the DI thing regnis :)

Right off the bat Frank Scoblete sells it so it has to be impossible. If it were real and attainable, he and all the other shysters would simply use it for profiting in the casinos and not advertise and sell classes for it.

I still don't understand how there can be any "control" or "influence" of any kind, with all those things sticking out of the back wall where your dice are required to hit. And please don't tell me that a "close guess" is good enuf. We were treated to that kind of BS by kew after his two table counting claim was labeled an epic fail and pure nonsense as soon as he regurgitated that the 2nd table count need not be accurate.

---

I had read about Scoblete and the dice control school and all of that. But in watching the videos and some of the students, I never liked the way they threw the dice. I always felt there was too much spin on the rebound off the wall.

But I don't think you have played enough dice to ascertain whether any form of control could be done. As I said in another thread (or maybe somewhere in this one), put the time and effort into it and you would be surprised what can be done.

---

The way I feel about dice control/di regnis, if it could be done then I could do it. Put them into my hand, give me the rules of the throw as well as the theory behind DC/DI, and in 90 minutes the world would know whether it were possible or not.
I've never thrown dice except maybe at some big mouth bully's face in 6th grade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

---

Here's a chance to piss them all off, Rob. A little quiz on your video poker knowledge. If you are a video poker expert you will know the answer off the top of your head. No research needed.

There is a daily drawing at Brand X Casino. It's starts everyday at noon. Once an hour they draw for a winner of $100. They do this once an hour until 10 PM. You get a drawing ticket FOR EVERY PAYOUT THAT IS AT LEAST 125 COINS at video poker. This is a small casino maybe 50 video poker machines. There are no multi-line games. So you can only play single line games. There is only quarter, 50 cent and $1 denom. The games available for you to play are:

9/6 Jacks
FPDW
FPJW
9/7 Double Bonus
9/6 Double Double Bonus
8/5 Bonus Poker
7/5 Flush Attack
9/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9/5 Super Double Bonus
9/5 Triple Bonus Poker Plus
9/5 White Hot Aces

Rob, on the above list what is the best game to play on this promotion? Like I said, it doesn't take any research if you are an expert. You should know the answer off the top of your head.

Everyone give Rob a chance to answer before you give your own answer.

---

Rob won't answer because he flat doesn't know which is the best game to play in this promotion. It was a promotion I did very well on because it was a small casino so not that many video pokers in the house and not many people to play against. It brought in some business but no one except me played the game I played.

I listed 11 games above. I had to hit a a payout of at least 125 coins to get a drawing ticket. On all of the Jacks or Better games above you will get a drawing ticket for every quad, straight flush, royal flush. The quad average on these games is around 425. Average in the SF and RF and you get a drawing ticket about every 400 games.

The Joker game is totally out of the question because you only get a drawing ticket for Straight Flush, Joker Royal, 5 of a Kind, or Royal. You'll get a drawing ticket every 1255 games.

With the Deuces Wild you only get a drawing ticket for a Wild Royal, 4 Deuces or a Natural Royal, about every 494 games.

That leaves one game left on the list, 7/5 Flush Attack. The Deuce game on the list, at 100.76%, is not the best payback of all the games listed. 7/5 FA has a return of 100.78%. And you get a drawing ticket for every quad, straight flush and royal flush. But this game is also on a 4 flush cycle. The first three flushes pay 25 coins, the 4th flush pays 125 coins. So you are getting a drawing ticket for every 4th flush. With optimal strategy you make a flush every 55 games. So you will get a drawing ticket every 220 games. Average it in with the quad, Straight Flush and Royal hits and you get a drawing ticket every 142 games.
7/5 Flush Attack is clearly the game you want to play on this promotion.

Rob deflected as much as he could....and did not give an answer because he had no clue which was the best game to play. That's how much knowledge he has about video poker. Not a whole lot.

mickey, get real. Nobody plays Flush Attack, and it's not a game that would be a winner in my play strategy. But because it's just another game you can claim, but of course never prove, you beat in your "forlorn days of old" with that idiot Tuna, you make up some dumb promo out of it.

What everybody knows and you won't admit, is that I could easily out-profit you and that silly gimmick game while I play 8/5 SDBP. And that's the big difference between your loser life and mine: I win CASH; you play for prizes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

mickey, get real. Nobody plays Flush Attack, and it's not a game that would be a winner in my play strategy. But because it's just another game you can claim, but of course never prove, you beat in your "forlorn days of old" with that idiot Tuna, you make up some dumb promo out of it.

What everybody knows and you won't admit, is that I could easily out-profit you and that silly gimmick game while I play 8/5 SDBP. And that's the big difference between your loser life and mine: I win CASH; you play for prizes.

---

Sorry, slobbie. That dog won't hunt. You don't know much about video poker. You claim you do but can't back it up with any facts. And you've never proved any of YOUR claims.

What dog are you talking about? I have two....and here's betting BIG TIME you don't have any, because you can't afford one.

And here's another flash of education: winning players don't need promotions to win. I never play them.

So now we wait....put up some proof of your six figures a year and just one winner with a w2g. But we'll never see either because you're nothing but fabrication.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

What dog are you talking about? I have two....and here's betting BIG TIME you don't have any, because you can't afford one.

And here's another flash of education: winning players don't need promotions to win. I never play them.

So now we wait....put up some proof of your six figures a year and just one winner with a w2g. But we'll never see either because you're nothing but fabrication.

---

Sure, right after you deliver your tax returns to Alan like you said you would but welshed instead. But you will never deliver them because they prove you a liar and have never profited a dime from video poker.

I found this video of Rob and Alan.

https://youtu.be/9DF2GuWa72A

At about the 1 minute mark, Rob started talking about video poker games not being random.

If that belief is still true, I don't see the point in arguing.... You either believe you are playing a fair game and side with the math people (i.e. MC) or you believe it's not random and you side with... I'm not even sure what to call it... (I.e. Rob).

If there is not alignment on whether the deal and draw are random, there is no basis for a conversation. All you have left at best is a debate or a argument on whether games are or are not random. Am I right?

I want to assume it is a debate and the goal is to influence the audience on who is right and who is wrong. I know what I think...

Or maybe this is just an argument where the goal is nothing more than to hurt or diminish the other person?

The most baffeling thing here is both people claim to be making a mint... Defense and prosecuting attorneys both join the same country clubs and doctors and business men. Each one of them had different paths to success... But somehow, gambling is different I guess.

Besides seeing patterns Rob also hears things. He's the only guy I know that can hear someone giving him the finger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Besides seeing patterns Rob also hears things. He's the only guy I know that can hear someone giving him the finger.

---

Ha!

Ok, I admit it.... I kinda like the insults.

mickey has nothing else in life, so the props do help. :)

Prozema--my discussion regarding whether machines are random are not as cut and dry as mickey's cardboard box full of dirty laundry that he turns over and starts re-using instead of hitting some laundromat, when he runs out of clean underwear.

I don't believe all machines are biased, and I play anyway hoping and assuming that the one I'm playing isn't. Because each machine I play is only for a short time, it's possible random or not random doesn't matter. One thing stands out though: whatever they are, it has not hurt my years of consistent profiting.

Now back to mickey. OK, that's it.

Rob Singer: I think you should be careful about what posts and threads you respond to outside of the two set by Dan.

I don't think anyone will fault you for a meaningful response to a statement made in an "outside post" but to do battle with your critics with troll-like posts should stop.

You're here to explain your system and respond to questions and statements.

And to the others: don't post things to create turmoil. If you have an honest question or statement then ask it. Returning to the BS of old is not what anyone wants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

C’mon Mickey, stop the nonsense. You're really making yourself look like a fool. Did you jump off the wagon? That would explain your behavior.

---

Hey, BH. Haven't heard from you in awhile. Still working on that keno math problem? Can't git 'r done, eh? Here, I'll make it easier on you yet. What is the probability of catching exactly 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot along with 2 or more catches in the 4-spot? I'll expect your answer on my desk this afternoon.

Yessiree, AP'ing is for simpletons, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

C’mon Mickey, stop the nonsense. You're really making yourself look like a fool. Did you jump off the wagon? That would explain your behavior.

---

Hey, BH. Haven't heard from you in awhile. Still working on that keno math problem? Can't git 'r done, eh? Here, I'll make it easier on you yet. What is the probability of catching exactly 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot along with 2 or more catches in the 4-spot? I'll expect your answer on my desk this afternoon.

Yessiree, AP'ing is for simpletons, right?

---

What is the probability of catching this or catching that? Your life at your age is still based on gambling game probabilities. If at my age my family’s life and health care was supported by results of gambling game probabilities offered by casinos to anyone in the world willing to risk money to play them; I would get a good life policy and jump on a fucking sword.

Mickey, are you really serious with this nonsense? Do you even realize how meaningless challenging people with your AP quizzes is to most of us? Some of us are more concerned about how our tax lawyer’s firm / accountant juggles the numbers. Especially during this time of the year. Hoping 10 out of 80 balls with numbers on them that fall from a random game, and that two hit out of the three I picked, isn’t going to do any good with my tax issues.

I thought while eating lunch, Keno was a game you played for entertainment. I couldn’t even picture how bad things would have to get for me to spend days and nights in a casino watching balls dropping, hoping the probability of a meal comes with a winning ticket.

It seems the more you talk the more credibility you lose. Leave it alone Mickey. You’re a colorful guy. We really love ya man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

C’mon Mickey, stop the nonsense. You're really making yourself look like a fool. Did you jump off the wagon? That would explain your behavior.

---

Hey, BH. Haven't heard from you in awhile. Still working on that keno math problem? Can't git 'r done, eh? Here, I'll make it easier on you yet. What is the probability of catching exactly 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot along with 2 or more catches in the 4-spot? I'll expect your answer on my desk this afternoon.

Yessiree, AP'ing is for simpletons, right?

---

What is the probability of catching this or catching that? Your life at your age is still based on gambling game probabilities. If at my age my family’s life and health care was supported by results of gambling game probabilities offered by casinos to anyone in the world willing to risk money to play them; I would get a good life policy and jump on a fucking sword.

Mickey, are you really serious with this nonsense? Do you even realize how meaningless challenging people with your AP quizzes is to most of us? Some of us are more concerned about how our tax lawyer’s firm / accountant juggles the numbers. Especially during this time of the year. Hoping 10 out of 80 balls with numbers on them that fall from a random game, and that two hit out of the three I picked, isn’t going to do any good with my tax issues.

I thought while eating lunch, Keno was a game you played for entertainment. I couldn’t even picture how bad things would have to get for me to spend days and nights in a casino watching balls dropping, hoping the probability of a meal comes with a winning ticket.

It seems the more you talk the more credibility you lose. Leave it alone Mickey. You’re a colorful guy. We really love ya man.

---

Au contraire, bison breath! Solving these kinds of math problems has always been fun to me. It's called fun with numbers. And quite lucrative in many cases. My whole point to you is Advanced AP'ing isn't for simpletons. Not everyone can do it. There is a lot of knowledge and skill involved.

If you are happy in retirement then more power to you. I could go back home and sit in a rocking chair for the rest of my life but I just don't want to do it. Damn, that would be boring. I'm gonna keep doing what I do until I just can't get around anymore. If it gets to that point, that is, if I don't die suddenly, but have to lay around waiting to die, I have a lot more to tell about what I do. There's a lot of it I haven't told because I don't want to get crowded in by other AP's.

The keno problems I put up are a demonstration of what one has to be capable of to analyze games correctly. Keno progressives and banking games are Montana specific. I've worked them for ten years. Consequently I have more knowledge and experience on them than any AP in history. So I put up three keno problems:

What is the probability of catching at least 2 out of 3 in a 3-spot while also catching at least 2 out of 4 in a 4-spot? I honestly don't know the answer because I've never done the math on it. It doesn't apply to any game I currently play.

What is the probability of catching exactly 2 out of 3 in a 3-spot while also catching at least 2 out of 4 in a 4-spot? The answer is 1 in 31.

What is the probability of catching exactly 3 out of 3 in the 3-spot while catching at least 2 out of 4 in the 4-spot? The answer is 1 in 344.

Anyone can run these numbers by the Wizard or any other mathematician for verification if they want. But I just wanted to show you, BH, that there is a lot more to AP than you think there is. If you had the ability you would have posted up the answers. But you don't have that ability so all you could do is boo hoo it.

mickey, stop giving out bad information. You try so hard to talk yourself into how you really really really like your non-productive, valueless, no-family life. And it might be an OK thing if you didn't keep lying about "how great it is for a loner like you". With all that does come the ongoing and real self-realization of having been given a life that you squandered away because you're nothing but a lazy white man--you DO know that, don't you?

I understand the need to keep telling yourself you finally found worth in life by training yourself how to analyze silly low level gambling machines, but in the end all you're really doing is running around to casinos hoping to get lucky first in actually FINDING one of these machines that, as you call it, are ripe for the picking, and then you hope to get lucky in hitting it! So you're just like any other gambler--you rely on luck, only you need luck to appear on several levels.

In fact, what you say you do is no different that what I do. I use the math of the game and wait for either a lucky hand or an opportunistic deal that I can either play conservatively or hope for good luck with an alternate hold. And just like you picking off your jackpots, my large ones happen at times also.

So use your head when you try to impress the AP's here about this stuff. While it may be a crowning achievement in your uneventful life to be going around making your two-bit living, most of the rest of us have achieved far greater things in life leading up to having conquered gambling or even just enjoying it as a pastime.

And I'm sorry, but looking back over comment history, your ratings have been highest after your drunken, vulgar & threat-filled rants. With no family or relationships left behind, that's quite the legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

mickey, stop giving out bad information. You try so hard to talk yourself into how you really really really like your non-productive, valueless, no-family life. And it might be an OK thing if you didn't keep lying about "how great it is for a loner like you". With all that does come the ongoing and real self-realization of having been given a life that you squandered away because you're nothing but a lazy white man--you DO know that, don't you?

I understand the need to keep telling yourself you finally found worth in life by training yourself how to analyze silly low level gambling machines, but in the end all you're really doing is running around to casinos hoping to get lucky first in actually FINDING one of these machines that, as you call it, are ripe for the picking, and then you hope to get lucky in hitting it! So you're just like any other gambler--you rely on luck, only you need luck to appear on several levels.

In fact, what you say you do is no different that what I do. I use the math of the game and wait for either a lucky hand or an opportunistic deal that I can either play conservatively or hope for good luck with an alternate hold. And just like you picking off your jackpots, my large ones happen at times also.

So use your head when you try to impress the AP's here about this stuff. While it may be a crowning achievement in your uneventful life to be going around making your two-bit living, most of the rest of us have achieved far greater things in life leading up to having conquered gambling or even just enjoying it as a pastime.

And I'm sorry, but looking back over comment history, your ratings have been highest after your drunken, vulgar & threat-filled rants. With no family or relationships left behind, that's quite the legacy.

---

I do have to admit you are good for a lot of laughs. The views are definitely up since your return. I think that's what Dan is after. They don't sign up though. Not tough enough to take your bullshit and dish it back. They are not laughing with you they are laughing at you. You're the butt of all the jokes in the gambling world. If all you want is a troll fest lets git it on, bitch.

You see? I got your goat by telling what everybody knows is the exact, precise truth about you!

Everyone's just WAITING for you to come apart at the seams mickey. Don't disappoint!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I could go back home and sit in a rocking chair for the rest of my life but I just don't want to do it. Damn, that would be boring. I'm gonna keep doing what I do until I just can't get around anymore. If it gets to that point, that is, if I don't die suddenly, but have to lay around waiting to die, I have a lot more to tell about what I do. There's a lot of it I haven't told because I don't want to get crowded in by other AP's.

---

You'll be long gone before you actually realize that no one gives a hoot. You're arguing with a guy who sells a $5 paperback gambling book (over on Alan's site) to riches that people now use for toilet paper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

You see? I got your goat by telling what everybody knows is the exact, precise truth about you!

Everyone's just WAITING for you to come apart at the seams mickey. Don't disappoint!

---

That's you that will be coming apart at the seams. You're a weakling in real life but a cyber bully online. Poor pathetic slobbie the welsher. Lololol! Go hug your mother's neck candy ass mama's boy.

Now you're showing everyone where *The proof is in the pudding" came from :)

Still waiting for the calm, balmy mickeycrimm to blow his stack!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Now you're showing everyone where *The proof is in the pudding" came from :)

Still waiting for the calm, balmy mickeycrimm to blow his stack!!!

---

Not gonna happen for ya, bitch. You're an easy read, bimbo. You always go for the exclamation marks when you're steaming. Watch out. Fire in the hole. Slobbie's about to explode.

OK mickey, you win. I have a BBQ to host tonight, and you have nothing else to do but your life's dream of living your pretend internet life. And I see that includes not being able to help yourself from producing tension-filled vulgarity :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

OK mickey, you win. I have a BBQ to host tonight, and you have nothing else to do but your life's dream of living your pretend internet life. And I see that includes not being able to help yourself from producing tension-filled vulgarity :)

---

Says the guy thats made 200,000 internet posts. But I can see you are busy tonight so go ahead and get back to giving your wife that enema.

The Wizard of Odds Quote:

April 12th, 2018 at 9:54:22
Per the new lower standard of evidence required to nuke members for multiple accounts, LayMeDown has been nuked based on convincing evidence that he is formally banned member varmenti.

April 12th, 2018 at 10:37:15
I've been known to buy souls for $10.

Buying Souls? He has told me in public posts that he doesn't believe in a god or a man in the sky. How could he buy souls when he doesn't believe in them?

I don't understand why this Wizard just doesn't make WoV membership pay dues and close off the board to the public view? I guess that wouldn't be as fun as banning people with no real evidence now. He, by his rules, only needs suspicion which he is the sole judge in making that decision.

Recently they re posted in his thread showing his article about prostitution in Las Vegas. I still have the problem with his idea of morals and how he seems to enjoy talking about this topic.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/ques...-in-las-vegas/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/f...-in-las-vegas/

He's just blowing off steam from having to deal with the remnants of his once-amicable home life monet. He's still a decent guy. Give him time to contemplate what selling his soul really did to him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prozema

I found this video of Rob and Alan.

https://youtu.be/9DF2GuWa72A

At about the 1 minute mark, Rob started talking about video poker games not being random.

If that belief is still true, I don't see the point in arguing.... You either believe you are playing a fair game and side with the math people (i.e. MC) or you believe it's not random and you side with... I'm not even sure what to call it... (I.e. Rob).

If there is not alignment on whether the deal and draw are random, there is no basis for a conversation. All you have left at best is a debate or a argument on whether games are or are not random. Am I right?

I want to assume it is a debate and the goal is to influence the audience on who is right and who is wrong. I know what I think...

Or maybe this is just an argument where the goal is nothing more than to hurt or diminish the other person?

The most baffeling thing here is both people claim to be making a mint... Defense and prosecuting attorneys both join the same country clubs and doctors and business men. Each one of them had different paths to success... But somehow, gambling is different I guess.

---

Dear God they are dumb. It is hard to believe anyone would film themselves spewing such idiocy.

BBB you better not let wizard catch you praying to God over here!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prozema

I found this video of Rob and Alan.

https://youtu.be/9DF2GuWa72A

At about the 1 minute mark, Rob started talking about video poker games not being random.

If that belief is still true, I don't see the point in arguing.... You either believe you are playing a fair game and side with the math people (i.e. MC) or you believe it's not random and you side with... I'm not even sure what to call it... (I.e. Rob).

If there is not alignment on whether the deal and draw are random, there is no basis for a conversation. All you have left at best is a debate or a argument on whether games are or are not random. Am I right?

I want to assume it is a debate and the goal is to influence the audience on who is right and who is wrong. I know what I think...

Or maybe this is just an argument where the goal is nothing more than to hurt or diminish the other person?

The most baffeling thing here is both people claim to be making a mint... Defense and prosecuting attorneys both join the same country clubs and doctors and business men. Each one of them had different paths to success... But somehow, gambling is different I guess.

---

I don't know if I should thank you or not for this link. Here is an interesting quote from Rob Singer...

"I play short term. I am a video poker professional. I play short term strategies. I play to get lucky... hope that I get a winner. They eventually come, I have a structured strategy that gets me outta here as soon as I get a winner."

He actually said that He plays to get LUCKY and HOPES to get a WINNER!

However he is on another video with Alan talking about throwing away 3 queens against the KOJ suited when he is playing 8/5 Bonus Poker if he is buried in a massive hole for the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_fSgz3Df_8

He explains this is a rare hold but that he will throw the 3 queens away if the circumstances are right and he is losing tons of cash on the day. This is really good stuff and I have only listened to him for 15 mins. Honestly I have never heard of this guy because while he was writing books and finding patterns for the last 18 years I was too busy taking advantage of easy plays inside of the Casinos of Las Vegas... but whatever... I am just a POS, criminal.

This is a good one too about 4567 vs A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V26NczlE0K0

Here you have an open ended straight you hold that right? No Way... not with an Ace!

Monet don't forget that Rob also clearly gives the math showing his special plays are at a disadvantage to the conventional play. His critics always seem to leave that out.

By the way I do not follow his special plays BUT don't forget his justification for them. Take for example the Ace vs the open ended straight. When he needs a big win is it going to come from a straight or is it going to come from Aces or maybe a royal with the ace?

Me? I hold the open ended straight. Always. But I've missed those straight draws too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

---

These YouTube videos do not include the math analysis that is on my website. See:

http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

---

These YouTube videos do not include the math analysis that is on my website. See:

http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

---

Remember the old George Bush (the father) term "fuzzy math"? That's all this is Alan. Singer has several short term negative EV strategies, that while it is possible to turn a profit short-term with these strategies, it is just a mathematical impossibility to win long-term.

Several short term negative EV strategies do not....can not...add up to a long-term winning strategy. It is that simple. Any spin by Singer, or you to suggests otherwise is just nonsense. A mathematical impossibility.

But you, Alan apparently appreciate mathematical impossibilities with your lightning in a bottle...18 times... goofiness, so you are a perfect match for Singer. I guess that is why you have years of enabling him. But for the rest of the real world, you are just two guys in fantasyland. Two guys in the twilight zone, completely ignoring, even going against the mathematics of the real world. The mathematics that almost everything in the real world really is and boils down to.

The biggest mistake the AP's are always making, is that, once again, if you play -EV games you will lose, and if you play +EV games you will win. They just can't see beyond that. I can. And can you imagine thinking that a game which theoretically pays 100.17% will generate ANY different results that a game paying 99.7% during a 3 hour session when you're playing for a win goal? Makes no sense.

They like to think that there's no such thing as going into a casino with a set win goal, then leaving when you attain it. Can't happen....but they offer no explanation because they know they're wrong. This is why monet mentioned Flush Attack. I consider that a gimmick game that AP's get roped into playing because of the juicy sounding +EV it has with the right pay table. These guys ONLY think in terms of playing on and on forever, which is only the case for the machines and the casinos, by the way. To win consistently in casinos you have to think in a smarter way than they're set up to operate. You can't beat them at their own long term game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

The biggest mistake the AP's are always making, is that, once again, if you play -EV games you will lose, and if you play +EV games you will win. They just can't see beyond that. I can. And can you imagine thinking that a game which theoretically pays 100.17% will generate ANY different results that a game paying 99.7% during a 3 hour session when you're playing for a win goal? Makes no sense.

They like to think that there's no such thing as going into a casino with a set win goal, then leaving when you attain it. Can't happen....but they offer no explanation because they know they're wrong. This is why monet mentioned Flush Attack. I consider that a gimmick game that AP's get roped into playing because of the juicy sounding +EV it has with the right pay table. These guys ONLY think in terms of playing on and on forever, which is only the case for the machines and the casinos, by the way. To win consistently in casinos you have to think in a smarter way than they're set up to operate. You can't beat them at their own long term game.

---

YES, a player can win short-term. A roulette player betting black can win over an hour or two if an abnormal number of blacks appear short-term like that. A horse bettor, betting favorites can win over an afternoon race card if 4 or 5 favorites happen to win that day. Neither of these possible short term strategies can be carried forth for any length of time, that is to say longer term and that is what you are attempting to do.

Stop limits, of which "win goals" is a part can not change a losing strategy into a winning strategy. All it does is "redistribute" the wins and losses in such a manner that you will have clusters of wins, but also clusters of LARGER losses. So yes, you will have a small cluster, a small sample size that looks like a win but IT ISN'T. Long term the results will be EXACTLY the same. A negative EV strategy can not win long term and nothing you say or do can change that. Not the fuzzy math. Not the hate. Not the personal attacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Monet don't forget that Rob also clearly gives the math showing his special plays are at a disadvantage to the conventional play. His critics always seem to leave that out.

By the way I do not follow his special plays BUT don't forget his justification for them. Take for example the Ace vs the open ended straight. When he needs a big win is it going to come from a straight or is it going to come from Aces or maybe a royal with the ace?

Me? I hold the open ended straight. Always. But I've missed those straight draws too.

---

About 1 in 6 to make the straight and it pays 4 for 1.
About 1 in 4054 to make 4 Aces and they pay only 160 for 1.

Yeah, I know, aces pay more on certain games or with kickers but it's still a pretty shitty deal over holding the straight draw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

---

Or 100 play Royal Aces Bonus ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Monet don't forget that Rob also clearly gives the math showing his special plays are at a disadvantage to the conventional play. His critics always seem to leave that out.

By the way I do not follow his special plays BUT don't forget his justification for them. Take for example the Ace vs the open ended straight. When he needs a big win is it going to come from a straight or is it going to come from Aces or maybe a royal with the ace?

Me? I hold the open ended straight. Always. But I've missed those straight draws too.

---

I want to mention that, in my opinion, referring to people as Argentino's "critics" is a language gimmick that presents an inaccurate picture of reality. It bestows a certain gravitas to what Argentino does that isn't deserved, and creates a verbal patina of credibility to what he claims he does.

The reality is not that Argentino has an influential strategy and that there is a bevy of "critics" who go out of their way to analyze and debunk Argentino's way of operating. The reality is actually that there is an established math of probability. Argentino is the "critic" of what that established math says will happen. The "critics" of Argentino aren't the outliers. Nobody with a doctorate in math is going to agree with what Argentino claims his results will be. The outlier is Argentino, who is a "critic" of established math and says results will be different going forward than what the math says they will be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

---

LOLOLOLOL!!!!! at the sheer stupidity in the video. Rob with "you go for the flush, you don't get it, you don't get it, you don't get it." Hey, LOL but if you hold the lone Ace you get 4 Aces. Whopeeeeee!!!! LOLOLOLOL!!! Dumb, dumb, dumb. Dumber, Dumber, Dumber. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Alan, you should be embarrassed to have your name associated with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

---

LOLOLOLOL!!!!! at the sheer stupidity in the video. Rob with "you go for the flush, you don't get it, you don't get it, you don't get it." Hey, LOL but if you hold the lone Ace you get 4 Aces. Whopeeeeee!!!! LOLOLOLOL!!! Dumb, dumb, dumb. Dumber, Dumber, Dumber. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Alan, you should be embarrassed to have your name associated with that.

---

When you're in the hole thousands of dollars because of this stupid strategy...ah nevermind...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awFzELqyLg

This link is pretty good. I am guessing that Rob Singer never played Flush Attack... even he would have to hold the flush draw without a high card in that game.

His strategy is all about the Ace... he should just play Super Aces all the time... they still have some FP versions in town.

---

These YouTube videos do not include the math analysis that is on my website. See:

http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

---

Alan, have you ever asked yourself "if Argentino's tactics actually work why is he not targeting the highest hand on the payscale, the Royal Flush, by holding 3-card royals over high pairs and 2-card royals over low pairs, etc?"

The video of Singer tossing 4 to the flush in favor of a single A is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. If the game is random, there is no question what to hold. If the game is not randomly dealing cards, there is no common ground to have a discussion. So... Let's get back to the insults please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

The biggest mistake the AP's are always making, is that, once again, if you play -EV games you will lose, and if you play +EV games you will win. They just can't see beyond that. I can. And can you imagine thinking that a game which theoretically pays 100.17% will generate ANY different results that a game paying 99.7% during a 3 hour session when you're playing for a win goal? Makes no sense.

They like to think that there's no such thing as going into a casino with a set win goal, then leaving when you attain it. Can't happen....but they offer no explanation because they know they're wrong. This is why monet mentioned Flush Attack. I consider that a gimmick game that AP's get roped into playing because of the juicy sounding +EV it has with the right pay table. These guys ONLY think in terms of playing on and on forever, which is only the case for the machines and the casinos, by the way. To win consistently in casinos you have to think in a smarter way than they're set up to operate. You can't beat them at their own long term game.

---

YES, a player can win short-term. A roulette player betting black can win over an hour or two if an abnormal number of blacks appear short-term like that. A horse bettor, betting favorites can win over an afternoon race card if 4 or 5 favorites happen to win that day. Neither of these possible short term strategies can be carried forth for any length of time, that is to say longer term and that is what you are attempting to do.

Stop limits, of which "win goals" is a part can not change a losing strategy into a winning strategy. All it does is "redistribute" the wins and losses in such a manner that you will have clusters of wins, but also clusters of LARGER losses. So yes, you will have a small cluster, a small sample size that looks like a win but IT ISN'T. Long term the results will be EXACTLY the same. A negative EV strategy can not win long term and nothing you say or do can change that. Not the fuzzy math. Not the hate. Not the personal attacks.

---

Here's where you and others like you are completely confused, and fail to comprehend how gambling works other than for the long term casinos. AP's have been roped in by the casinos to think exactly like them, which is why you people help them continue to operate with your theoretical wins but actual losses.

You claim I can win a session TODAY....something I've seen AP's say a million times since I began writing my column in GT in 2000. Well....care to guess what MY--not your--probability % is of winning that session with my play strategy? If you guessed 85% then you'd be very close. And it's right here that every AP who's ever faced off with me begins to fade away.

Tell me kew--if I had an 85% chance of winning 5% of my session bankroll minimum with my strategy last week, what would my chances be on this week's casino visit? You say 85%? Exactly right.

So now we have two wins in two weeks. But what about after 40 weeks? Where are we now? Well, the math says I should have about 6 losing sessions and 34 winning ones, and in my career that's pretty close to what it's been. What? Singer won 34 sessions and lost only 6?? So you now have no choice but to say that my losses--and they have to be BIG--add up to more than my puny $2500/session wins, right?

That's the AP emotional response for sure. Why? Because their "theories" say that you must add up all these individual short term sessions and transform them into one long term event. What's funny about this approach is this: you're only saying that because when 99.7% avg. games are being played, your casino-trained minds are forced to add everything up and get a negative number....but had my avg. game been played at 100.1%, you'd be howling about how a profit COULD occur in this instance! Then all your babbling and moaning about how I play MARTINGALE so I HAVE to lose, would no longer hold any water. You guys in effect begin to argue against yourselves!

Here's the key kew: each of those 6 losses, because or the very complex "go down, not up, in denomination upon attaining mini-win goals along the way" which includes numerous 40 credit or greater soft profit cashouts, I'm losing around $6k-$10k/losing session on average and not the $57,200 session bankroll. Conversely, the winners are all either slightly above $2500, much above $2500, greatly above $2500, or in a few cases massively above $2500. In other words, there are a lot of smaller winners ($2500-$3500 range) but the larger winners far outnumber the larger losers. Which is how this short term playing strategy has been able to consistently make me money---money that is far and away at a far greater actual "hourly rate" than any of that theoretical per hour nonsense that AP's claim to "grind away" at.

This is what's been driving AP's up the wall for over 18 years now. But it is what it is. And as long as people choose to only see things the way the casinos see them and WANT everyone to see them, and believe you cannot make money off of a machine that's theoretically .4% less than the one next to it, the disbelief and the arguments will go on and on.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

The biggest mistake the AP's are always making, is that, once again, if you play -EV games you will lose, and if you play +EV games you will win. They just can't see beyond that. I can. And can you imagine thinking that a game which theoretically pays 100.17% will generate ANY different results that a game paying 99.7% during a 3 hour session when you're playing for a win goal? Makes no sense.

They like to think that there's no such thing as going into a casino with a set win goal, then leaving when you attain it. Can't happen....but they offer no explanation because they know they're wrong. This is why monet mentioned Flush Attack. I consider that a gimmick game that AP's get roped into playing because of the juicy sounding +EV it has with the right pay table. These guys ONLY think in terms of playing on and on forever, which is only the case for the machines and the casinos, by the way. To win consistently in casinos you have to think in a smarter way than they're set up to operate. You can't beat them at their own long term game.

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YES, a player can win short-term. A roulette player betting black can win over an hour or two if an abnormal number of blacks appear short-term like that. A horse bettor, betting favorites can win over an afternoon race card if 4 or 5 favorites happen to win that day. Neither of these possible short term strategies can be carried forth for any length of time, that is to say longer term and that is what you are attempting to do.

Stop limits, of which "win goals" is a part can not change a losing strategy into a winning strategy. All it does is "redistribute" the wins and losses in such a manner that you will have clusters of wins, but also clusters of LARGER losses. So yes, you will have a small cluster, a small sample size that looks like a win but IT ISN'T. Long term the results will be EXACTLY the same. A negative EV strategy can not win long term and nothing you say or do can change that. Not the fuzzy math. Not the hate. Not the personal attacks.

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Here's where you and others like you are completely confused, and fail to comprehend how gambling works other than for the long term casinos. AP's have been roped in by the casinos to think exactly like them, which is why you people help them continue to operate with your theoretical wins but actual losses.

You claim I can win a session TODAY....something I've seen AP's say a million times since I began writing my column in GT in 2000. Well....care to guess what MY--not your--probability % is of winning that session with my play strategy? If you guessed 85% then you'd be very close. And it's right here that every AP who's ever faced off with me begins to fade away.

Tell me kew--if I had an 85% chance of winning 5% of my session bankroll minimum with my strategy last week, what would my chances be on this week's casino visit? You say 85%? Exactly right.

So now we have two wins in two weeks. But what about after 40 weeks? Where are we now? Well, the math says I should have about 6 losing sessions and 34 winning ones, and in my career that's pretty close to what it's been. What? Singer won 34 sessions and lost only 6?? So you now have no choice but to say that my losses--and they have to be BIG--add up to more than my puny $2500/session wins, right?

That's the AP emotional response for sure. Why? Because their "theories" say that you must add up all these individual short term sessions and transform them into one long term event. What's funny about this approach is this: you're only saying that because when 99.7% avg. games are being played, your casino-trained minds are forced to add everything up and get a negative number....but had my avg. game been played at 100.1%, you'd be howling about how a profit COULD occur in this instance! Then all your babbling and moaning about how I play MARTINGALE so I HAVE to lose, would no longer hold any water. You guys in effect begin to argue against yourselves!

Here's the key kew: each of those 6 losses, because or the very complex "go down, not up, in denomination upon attaining mini-win goals along the way" which includes numerous 40 credit or greater soft profit cashouts, I'm losing around $6k-$10k/losing session on average and not the $57,200 session bankroll. Conversely, the winners are all either slightly above $2500, much above $2500, greatly above $2500, or in a few cases massively above $2500. In other words, there are a lot of smaller winners ($2500-$3500 range) but the larger winners far outnumber the larger losers. Which is how this short term playing strategy has been able to consistently make me money---money that is far and away at a far greater actual "hourly rate" than any of that theoretical per hour nonsense that AP's claim to "grind away" at.

This is what's been driving AP's up the wall for over 18 years now. But it is what it is. And as long as people choose to only see things the way the casinos see them and WANT everyone to see them, and believe you cannot make money off of a machine that's theoretically .4% less than the one next to it, the disbelief and the arguments will go on and on.

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Prove it.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Why? Because their "theories" say that you must add up all these individual short term sessions and transform them into one long term event.
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Other than the time between the last deal-draw of a 3 hour session and the first deal-draw of the next 3 hour session on a different day, what is the difference between the hands composing the two 3 hour sessions and those composing a six hour session (all hands on 8/5 bonus poker with identical paytables) ?

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Why? Because their "theories" say that you must add up all these individual short term sessions and transform them into one long term event.
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Other than the time between the last deal-draw of a 3 hour session and the first deal-draw of the next 3 hour session on a different day, what is the difference between the hands composing the two 3 hour sessions and those composing a six hour session (all hands on 8/5 bonus poker with identical paytables) ?

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First, you don't seem to know the strategy. It uses 100 credits on BP then 300 credits on SDBP on each denomination. And you go down, not up in denomination as the small winning hands appear.

Next, there is no difference if I play and win a session in 3 hours, go see a man about a horse, then come back and play another session---or if I take a week off to live my life then return for another session that also might last 3 hours. And it has zero to do with the previous session. Why not? Because while I may have finished the previous session at the $10 level on SDBP, each new session begins on $1 BP. Similarly, because no hand has anything to do with those that have already been played or those that are yet to come, neither do these individual short term sessions have anything at all to do with any other.

Wow Rob... That's a complicated system. Kinda sounds like a betting progression.