Electronic Blackjack - hit after doubling down.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by tableplay

You made no mention of doubling a 2nd time, until it was pointed out that this was something that should be done if the player's total warranted it. The only thing you mentioned was to hit again or stay as one's choices prior to that - so this would cover the case of what to do next after receiving a duck with 9 in the bag.

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Honestly, I didn't think it necessary to specifically say that. You could take a second action after the initial double. If you could re-hit, I assumed everyone would understand you could re-double.

I am also not familiar with these terms: Duck with 9 in the bag. :D Very colorful.

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Looks like you got caught again kew. How many people does it take to keep pointing out to you that whenever you get questioned on something that you finally realize doesn't make sense, you tweak your story into something that better fits?

Your long and rambling a-humma a-humma a-humma posts trying to "fix and adjust" your constant lying is really all it takes to keep humiliating yourself. And to think.....all it took was your eternal irritation over my actually finding and playing glitched machines for you to make a fool of yourself--again! :)

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

So I will ask mickey,

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

But I do know this, it is routine for tewlj to make shit up on the fly to push his false narratives. He'd rather climb to the top of a tree just to tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

This is not meant as a joke at KJ's expense. There has been quite the change in KJ over the last few years. We all know of his heart problems and his bout with covid. He is bound to have suffered from a lack of oxygen to the brain multiple times, especially with the covid. And that has obviously caused some major mental deterioration as we all have witnessed in his postings. He no longer can remember simple facts and gets confused. I have nothing against KJ but it is hard to ignore the deterioration of his mental faculties.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I also shared details with mickeycrimm, including that the lights re-lit for a partial second. I just looked at what I wrote to him. I said fraction of a second.

With Mickey I also didn't specifically say you could re-double. I just assumed people would understand that a second action meant you could re-hit and re-double.

So I will ask mickey, did you think I only meant re-hit and not re-double?

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The re-double hand hadn't occured to me. It''s hard to think or cover everything at once.

It’s REALLY aggravating when someone makes a multi paragraph post in all bold. It’s like making an entire fucking parking lot strictly handicap spaces.

There are a whole array of strategies that open up with the 2nd double down. For example you can get quadruple your money in against a dealer stiff card after the fact under the right circumstances.
Example:
The dealer upcard is a six.
You are holding a 2 and 3 as your cards. Your initial bet is 5 dollars. So you double down for an additional $5 (without the glitch you would hit and not double down, but the possibility of improving your hand with the extra glitch card makes the choice a double down rather than a hit). Now your total bet is $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down). Then you receive a 5 or 6. When the choices briefly flash you double your $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down) with another $10 bet. So you are now getting in quadruple your initial bet while holding a 10 or 11 against the dealer stiff. Obviously if the 1st double down card had been a 10-value card, you would then opt to stand. But even then you now have a larger bet in (double your bet) against a dealer stiff.

Bbbwwwaaahhhhhh, the kewl-groomer makin the scene with yet more bulls-shits narrative, hey hey!!!!

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Originally Posted by soxfan

Some cats lie about some stuff some of the times but the kewl-J lie about everything, all of the times, hey hey.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

There are a whole array of strategies that open up with the 2nd double down. For example you can get quadruple your money in against a dealer stiff card after the fact under the right circumstances.
Example:
The dealer upcard is a six.
You are holding a 2 and 3 as your cards. Your initial bet is 5 dollars. So you double down for an additional $5 (without the glitch you would hit and not double down, but the possibility of improving your hand with the extra glitch card makes the choice a double down rather than a hit). Now your total bet is $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down). Then you receive a 5 or 6. When the choices briefly flash you double your $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down) with another $10 bet. So you are now getting in quadruple your initial bet while holding a 10 or 11 against the dealer stiff. Obviously if the 1st double down card had been a 10-value card, you would then opt to stand. But even then you now have a larger bet in (double your bet) against a dealer stiff.

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Tableplay, as a math guy (you not I), I can appreciate, your analysis of finding ways to create the biggest percentage advantage win. BUT betting the amounts you describe to get those bigger percentage advantage would have resulted in a win rate of $15 an hour (range). With this play, you HAD to be the machine max ($100) at all times to get the biggest hourly win rate.

I mean would you rather have an hourly that is 130% of $10 wagers or 120% of $100 wagers? (numbers are just an example)

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by tableplay

There are a whole array of strategies that open up with the 2nd double down. For example you can get quadruple your money in against a dealer stiff card after the fact under the right circumstances.
Example:
The dealer upcard is a six.
You are holding a 2 and 3 as your cards. Your initial bet is 5 dollars. So you double down for an additional $5 (without the glitch you would hit and not double down, but the possibility of improving your hand with the extra glitch card makes the choice a double down rather than a hit). Now your total bet is $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down). Then you receive a 5 or 6. When the choices briefly flash you double your $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down) with another $10 bet. So you are now getting in quadruple your initial bet while holding a 10 or 11 against the dealer stiff. Obviously if the 1st double down card had been a 10-value card, you would then opt to stand. But even then you now have a larger bet in (double your bet) against a dealer stiff.

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Tableplay, as a math guy (you not I), I can appreciate, your analysis of finding ways to create the biggest percentage advantage win. BUT betting the amounts you describe to get those bigger percentage advantage would have resulted in a win rate of $15 an hour (range). With this play, you HAD to be the machine max ($100) at all times to get the biggest hourly win rate.

I mean would you rather have an hourly that is 130% of $10 wagers or 120% of $100 wagers? (numbers are just an example)

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Wait...so at max bet you could double but not quadruple?

Besides the fact that I don't think they would hard code it so that the chip sprites don't exist for amounts larger than $200, wouldn't you have mentioned before now that quadrupling at max bet was impossible, rather than saying that you thought the possibility of quadrupling was implied?

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by tableplay

There are a whole array of strategies that open up with the 2nd double down. For example you can get quadruple your money in against a dealer stiff card after the fact under the right circumstances.
Example:
The dealer upcard is a six.
You are holding a 2 and 3 as your cards. Your initial bet is 5 dollars. So you double down for an additional $5 (without the glitch you would hit and not double down, but the possibility of improving your hand with the extra glitch card makes the choice a double down rather than a hit). Now your total bet is $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down). Then you receive a 5 or 6. When the choices briefly flash you double your $10 ($5 initial bet + $5 from first double down) with another $10 bet. So you are now getting in quadruple your initial bet while holding a 10 or 11 against the dealer stiff. Obviously if the 1st double down card had been a 10-value card, you would then opt to stand. But even then you now have a larger bet in (double your bet) against a dealer stiff.

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Tableplay, as a math guy (you not I), I can appreciate, your analysis of finding ways to create the biggest percentage advantage win. BUT betting the amounts you describe to get those bigger percentage advantage would have resulted in a win rate of $15 an hour (range). With this play, you HAD to be the machine max ($100) at all times to get the biggest hourly win rate.

I mean would you rather have an hourly that is 130% of $10 wagers or 120% of $100 wagers? (numbers are just an example)

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Wait...so at max bet you could double but not quadruple?

Besides the fact that I don't think they would hard code it so that the chip sprites don't exist for amounts larger than $200, wouldn't you have mentioned before now that quadrupling at max bet was impossible, rather than saying that you thought the possibility of quadrupling was implied?

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What are YOU talking about? You absolutely could redouble (quadruple) the max bet. Where did you even come up with that?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Tableplay, as a math guy (you not I), I can appreciate, your analysis of finding ways to create the biggest percentage advantage win. BUT betting the amounts you describe to get those bigger percentage advantage would have resulted in a win rate of $15 an hour (range). With this play, you HAD to be the machine max ($100) at all times to get the biggest hourly win rate.

I mean would you rather have an hourly that is 130% of $10 wagers or 120% of $100 wagers? (numbers are just an example)

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Wait...so at max bet you could double but not quadruple?

Besides the fact that I don't think they would hard code it so that the chip sprites don't exist for amounts larger than $200, wouldn't you have mentioned before now that quadrupling at max bet was impossible, rather than saying that you thought the possibility of quadrupling was implied?

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What are YOU talking about? You absolutely could redouble (quadruple) the max bet. Where did you even come up with that?

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Why did you think tableplay was suggesting that you needed to bet the amounts he used in his example to get the %s shown?

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

What are YOU talking about? You absolutely could redouble (quadruple) the max bet. Where did you even come up with that?

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Why did you think tableplay was suggesting that you needed to bet the amounts he used in his example to get the %s shown?

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I don't know why he did that? Is tableplay suggesting he played a re-hit, re-double glitch that the max bet was the total amount? That you could not split, double (or redouble) the original bets? If that is what he is suggesting, his glitch was different than the one I played. You could double split, redouble your original bet, even if that put your total bet over the max bet. That max bet was the limit for the original wager only.

Have you ever played computerized blackjack online? I played some at YouWager last fall, seeing if that was a reasonable way to get though the rollover requirements with a low house edge. It wasn't because blackjack bets don't count full bets. Otherwise it would be.

BUT that game also has a max bet of $100. That meant that was the max bet for your original wager. You could still double and split, if the game allowed and have a hand with $200 or $300 in play. And that is exactly the way it was with this glitch. the max bet was $100 for the original wager, but you could still double and in this case re-double that amount.

He just used a hypothetical $ amount to illustrate a point.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

He just used a hypothetical $ amount to illustrate a point.

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Look, from the time I was able to really talk about this play, a few weeks ago, not back in March, I stated that I am sure not everything I did was optimal. I didn't have the means (a simulator that could simulate what I needed) or time to do that. It was a play that had a running clock on it. We needed to figure out as best we could and get rolling.

But I see no scenario where not playing the max bet would have resulted in a higher hourly rate. That is just basic math. If playing with an advantage, lets just say 1.5% over all advantage, how do you play it) Making bets of $10 or bets as high as you can make ($100) to get the highest return?

Again which would you do $10 wagers at a slightly higher percentage or $100 wagers at a slightly lower?

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

Anything requiring research with FraudJ is a complete waste of time.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

He just used a hypothetical $ amount to illustrate a point.

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Look, from the time I was able to really talk about this play, a few weeks ago, not back in March, I stated that I am sure not everything I did was optimal. I didn't have the means (a simulator that could simulate what I needed) or time to do that. It was a play that had a running clock on it. We needed to figure out as best we could and get rolling.

But I see no scenario where not playing the max bet would have resulted in a higher hourly rate. That is just basic math. If playing with an advantage, lets just say 1.5% over all advantage, how do you play it) Making bets of $10 or bets as high as you can make ($100) to get the highest return?

Again which would you do $10 wagers at a slightly higher percentage or $100 wagers at a slightly lower?

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But nobody was suggesting you bet less than the max bet.

He used a $5 wager for the purpose of illustrating a point. The size of a wager does not affect the percentages involved.

I don't know why I bother. There is simply no such thing as any discussion of legitimate advantage play experiences. As soon as I share something, anything at all, you haters come out of the wood work trolling and hating. What a fucking forum. Troll forum....that is all it is.

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Originally Posted by mcap

It’s REALLY aggravating when someone makes a multi paragraph post in all bold. It’s like making an entire fucking parking lot strictly handicap spaces.

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KJ's the guy at the blackjack table who can't stop yelling.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Even UNKewlJ himself must realize that he's not right in the head, to say constantly that he will do this or that, and then stand by helplessly as he can't keep to any sort of resolve...about anything.

Can't you imagine this indecisive twit at the tables, putting one hand up to his face, the other propped against his side, and declaring in his high pitched whiny voice, "Well I just don't KNOWW if I should hit or stay?"

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Can't you imagine this indecisive twit at the tables, putting one hand up to his face, the other propped against his side, and declaring in his high pitched whiny voice, "Well I just don't KNOWW if I should hit or stay?"

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You are damn straight I do! The single thing that will shorten a winning players time at the tables (longevity) is to play like he knows what he is doing. To make all the correct plays and be certain about each one. Who are you trying to impress? The pit guy who has the power to limit your play? Don't answer that fool...it is another rhetorical question. :cool:

Most real winning blackjack players use cover and cover plays to extend longevity. The exception is the "slash and burners" who want every cent of advantage for whatever amount of play they can get in and then they are done with that location. But their careers and longevity are short.

There is a wide range of cover techniques that can make a huge difference in longevity. They range from intentionally making the wrong play, which comes at a cost to just how the players acts. Himming and hauling slightly during certain plays has great value at absolutely zero cost.

While I always know exactly what I want to do with each hand, I will play the part. I will even take it a step further and involve the pit critter in my decision if he happens to be watching or lurking around. Take a play that is marginal. Like hitting standing 16 vs 10, a very common hand. By count, you should hit at 0 and below and stand on anything above 0. (talking running counts here) That is what most counters do. And if you play it incorrectly at a low count of zero, +1, -1, even +/-2, the cost is only pennies. So you can ask the pit guy what he would do and which ever way he suggests, you play. If he suggests the wrong way, it has almost no cost. But it impresses upon him 10 fold, that you don't know or aren't sure.

Other times I will involve the pit guy without asking his opinion. Take a 12 vs 2 at a true count of +4. Basic strategy is to hit 12 vs 2, 3. At higher plus counts (+3 and +2 respectively), the optimal play is to stand. So at a TC +4, I know I want to stand. So you delay for just a second. Look at the pit critter and say something like "I know the book says to hit this, but I always lose, so I am standing". The result is that you look uncertain. You have given a stupid voodoo type reason for your play and you have still made the correct play. ZERO cost to that cover. These impressions add up.

Bottom line is there is a whole bunch of little things like this a player can do that will improve longevity at absolutely no cost. And there are even some low cost plays, where you are making the wrong play, that even though there is a small cost, only cost a fraction of a penny to a penny for $100 worth of wagers. THAT is the kind of cover you want. Not making the wrong play that has a significant cost.

But an expert life long winning player like you surely knew that. Or apparently NOT!