Would Alan start folding AA in poker if he lost with it once?

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Originally Posted by Mission146

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

If you only called the BB and then someone shoves you had better fold anything besides AA or KK.

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I don't know that any poker rule is a Universal. There are probably players good enough to call with less than that in that situation who have a good reason for doing so.

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The kids in the game today will 4 bet with less than Aces.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Dan Druff,

Cool, thanks for the answer! Having you basically agree with me on that one makes me feel somewhat validated as I'm not usually too comfortable talking about poker.

In Alan's case, there was one caller, so you would definitely not limp the aces as the SB. It seems that you're saying you could make an argument for limping in if everyone folds around to the SB and the SB has the rockets, right? My thinking would be if I know the BB is really conservative and has a very narrow range of calling hands, then I would want to go ahead and limp in and, as you pointed out, hope that he catches top pair or middle pair.

There's also always the chance that the BB takes you for a weak hand and tries to steal one from you pre-flop.

I do agree that a player isn't wrong just to always raise AA.

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You would only limp with AA in a SB/BB confrontation if one of the following is true:

1) You think the BB is aggressive and will raise your limp, and you can then re-raise him (though this will pretty much give away that you have a strong hand)
-or-
2) You're looking to deceive your opponent into believing you have a weak hand, thus calling your flop bets with only a small piece of it

But you're really just better off raising here.

Why?

First off, most good players will raise the SB in a SB/BB confrontation with a very wide range of hands (even some below average ones), so raising is not giving anything away.

Second, and somewhat related to the first, you might get 3-bet, which will then allow you to 4-bet, and possibly get a call if they have something decent.

Third, against certain opponents who will fold trash in the BB to a SB raise, you are helping yourself put them on a hand if they call your preflop raise. So if the board comes 842, you know they probably don't have 84, 42, or 82, which is useful information.

Fourth, and this is sometimes over looked, is that you actually WANT your opponent to have big cards, and those are the ones most likely to call your preflop raise. Not only does AA crush big-card and high pocket pair holdings heads up, but AA is also likely to extract a lot of money against them postflop. When AA faces a hand like 74o, the pot is usually only getting pumped up postflop when the AA is behind (such as being against a straight, trips, or 2 pair), and obviously you don't want that. So it's not even a huge deal if a hand like that folds to you pre, as you're not likely to get a lot of chips from them postflop anyway. Compare this to hands like AK (wins 5% of the time against AA) or KQ, where if they flop something like top pair, you're still getting good money from them, and your chances to win are high. Bottom line is that it's not a tragedy if junk hands fold against your AA prefop from the blinds. The strongest hand against AA is 67 suited (different suited than both aces) -- still an underdog, but the best thing to have against AA in a heads up runout.

Also, don't try to get too cute with AA preflop from a non-blind position.

Many people fear a fold-around to their AA, feeling they "wasted" it, so they either limp or min-raise.

The limping brings on the problems mentioned above.

The min-raise sends a red flag up that you have AA if you never otherwise min-raise. (Same with limping, if you never otherwise limp.)

Here's a story from 10/20 No Limit at Bellagio from years ago.

I had a $3k stack (cash game), and my opponent had me covered. He min-raised early, and I knew he had AA just from that.

Folded around to me, I had QJo. I called, and planned to tread very cautiously.

Flop came QJ4. Bingo!

I check-raised the flop, he called.

Turn was 7. I bet, he put me all in, I snap called, and he looked frustrated. He showed the AA and knew he was screwed. I showed him my QJ.

River? 4. Brutal. I lost the 6k pot. Was so frustrated that I just stood up and left without rebuying.

Anyway, my point is that it was pretty much face-up poker to me. Had I just flopped the Q, I was going to put in a call on the flop and probably pitch it on the turn, knowing how behind I was.

You need to be careful not to give away that you have AA.

This is also why I'd suggest NOT 3-betting out of the BB with a high pocket pair (including AA) if only against one opponent. Instead, just check-raise any underboard flop and go from there. A 3-bet out of the BB against a raise (except from the SB) looks incredibly strong, and players won't give you much action unless they can beat an overpair. However, you SHOULD put in 3-bets from the BB if against 2 or more opponents, as you're looking more to extract chips preflop in that spot.

Dan Druff,

RE Post #22:

Thanks! I actually find your third and fourth reasons (in that order) the most compelling. I didn't really think about the question in the context of being able to eliminate possible hands that my opponent could be on...and that's why you don't see me talking about poker very often. Reason #4 seems pretty closely related to reason #3 and would seem to amount to, "If they're betting (especially on a trash flop) you're probably behind."

RE Post #23:

Thanks for all the tips and that sucks about him catching the four, but that's poker, I guess. I don't blame you for nt re-buying, one of the few things I definitively know about poker is that it's not a good idea to play when you're pissed off, at least, not for most people.