Rio getting desperate?

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Originally Posted by jpfromla

The Rio right now is like a former hot girlfriend that you know now has a venereal disease. In this case, the disease was CET. However, a steady dose of penicillin and a condom can go a long way. So can the Rio. First bring back the best looking cocktail waitresses like they had in 1999. Bring back a well price good buffet that’s gonna be a loss leader but it’ll get people in the door. Upgrade your comped booze selections. Upgrade the masquerade in the sky show maybe with an intense light laser show to brighten that end of the casino. Free parking and no resort fee that there will go miles in terms of advertisement. Make use of that parking lot by providing a shuttle service to the allegiant stadium during any event. Park for free five dollars for the shuttle and then give everybody a free drink or some free play when they get off the shuttle at the end of the night. That way you keep them on the property. Yes some of these ideas are lost leaders but if you could get them in to play, people will dump $300-$500 in a few minutes and not realize it.

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A couple things. If they bring back the best looking cocktail waitresses from 1999, won't they be like 60 years old now? Who wants to see that? Kidding. I know what you meant. :p

" Bring back a well price good buffet that’s gonna be a loss leader but it’ll get people in the door". I personally found this comment interesting. During Covid when everyone shut down their buffets, casinos seemed to have forgotten what the purpose of the buffets were. They were NEVER about making money (except maybe the highest priced strip buffets). Most buffets, including all the smaller ones that I loved so much at Boyd and station properties, were about keeping players on property so after the ate, they would gamble for another 3 hours. Was NEVER about making money.

It is another one of those things that when pencil pushers replaced real casino people, they lost sight of.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by jpfromla

The Rio right now is like a former hot girlfriend that you know now has a venereal disease. In this case, the disease was CET. However, a steady dose of penicillin and a condom can go a long way. So can the Rio. First bring back the best looking cocktail waitresses like they had in 1999. Bring back a well price good buffet that’s gonna be a loss leader but it’ll get people in the door. Upgrade your comped booze selections. Upgrade the masquerade in the sky show maybe with an intense light laser show to brighten that end of the casino. Free parking and no resort fee that there will go miles in terms of advertisement. Make use of that parking lot by providing a shuttle service to the allegiant stadium during any event. Park for free five dollars for the shuttle and then give everybody a free drink or some free play when they get off the shuttle at the end of the night. That way you keep them on the property. Yes some of these ideas are lost leaders but if you could get them in to play, people will dump $300-$500 in a few minutes and not realize it.

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A couple things. If they bring back the best looking cocktail waitresses from 1999, won't they be like 60 years old now? Who wants to see that? Kidding. I know what you meant. :p

" Bring back a well price good buffet that’s gonna be a loss leader but it’ll get people in the door". I personally found this comment interesting. During Covid when everyone shut down their buffets, casinos seemed to have forgotten what the purpose of the buffets were. They were NEVER about making money (except maybe the highest priced strip buffets). Most buffets, including all the smaller ones that I loved so much at Boyd and station properties, were about keeping players on property so after the ate, they would gamble for another 3 hours. Was NEVER about making money.

It is another one of those things that when pencil pushers replaced real casino people, they lost sight of.

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Agree. How many times you walk in with the free buffet coupon and it ends up costing 3 to 500 dollars.

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Originally Posted by jpfromla

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by jpfromla

The Rio right now is like a former hot girlfriend that you know now has a venereal disease. In this case, the disease was CET. However, a steady dose of penicillin and a condom can go a long way. So can the Rio. First bring back the best looking cocktail waitresses like they had in 1999. Bring back a well price good buffet that’s gonna be a loss leader but it’ll get people in the door. Upgrade your comped booze selections. Upgrade the masquerade in the sky show maybe with an intense light laser show to brighten that end of the casino. Free parking and no resort fee that there will go miles in terms of advertisement. Make use of that parking lot by providing a shuttle service to the allegiant stadium during any event. Park for free five dollars for the shuttle and then give everybody a free drink or some free play when they get off the shuttle at the end of the night. That way you keep them on the property. Yes some of these ideas are lost leaders but if you could get them in to play, people will dump $300-$500 in a few minutes and not realize it.

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A couple things. If they bring back the best looking cocktail waitresses from 1999, won't they be like 60 years old now? Who wants to see that? Kidding. I know what you meant. :p

" Bring back a well price good buffet that’s gonna be a loss leader but it’ll get people in the door". I personally found this comment interesting. During Covid when everyone shut down their buffets, casinos seemed to have forgotten what the purpose of the buffets were. They were NEVER about making money (except maybe the highest priced strip buffets). Most buffets, including all the smaller ones that I loved so much at Boyd and station properties, were about keeping players on property so after the ate, they would gamble for another 3 hours. Was NEVER about making money.

It is another one of those things that when pencil pushers replaced real casino people, they lost sight of.

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Agree. How many times you walk in with the free buffet coupon and it ends up costing 3 to 500 dollars.

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All good comments re: buffet, offering something to people, etc.

I see it that same way with the 85% slots, 6/5 VP, 000 roulette etc. (I don’t know if Rio has these or not more of a general comment on the industry)

These companies want to squeeze every dollar so hard they forget about actually offering something of value to people,

In the old days people got hooked on gambling because they came in, were up at some point, & got addicted to thrill of winning money.

Harder to addict them & get repeat business when they walk in, lose very fast without ever being up even a little bit the whole time, and then walk out broke feeling like they got kicked in the nuts

One big problem with the de-theming of Vegas is that resorts have absolutely no shot to compete if their location sucks.

It doesn't matter how much you spend on renovation. If your casino doesn't bring something to the table which the Strip ones don't, people aren't going to come.

Sure, you can go for locals instead, but that market is mostly saturated, and Rio was definitely going for the tourist/locals hybrid it had previously achieved in the 90s.

The formula actually isn't that hard:

- Make your casino a destination for people, to where they want to go there for something they won't find elsewhere

- Remove all hindrances which might cause people to decide not to come -- parking fees, confusing layouts, etc

- Put a few loss leaders in there, which both draw people in and make people feel better about losing money gambling there

- Aggressively advertise what makes you different



Near the beginning, Rio laughably tried to advertise why their rewards program was better, because you earn slot credits at a slightly higher rate than Caesars. Who cares? That's not gonna get people in the door.

Plenty of good suggestions in this thread. Amazing how we can see it and they can't.

Rio should set all their slots and VP games to give a much greater RTP to the players than does the competition' say 97 or even 98 for slots, maybe 99 or so for VP, and have the Wizard trek to sin city from the wilds of Washington state to verify the claim, then advertise the hell out of it.

Of course no resort fees, a good, reasonably priced buffet, and generous comps for both locals and visitors.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

One big problem with the de-theming of Vegas is that resorts have absolutely no shot to compete if their location sucks.

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Yeah, I don't know about this?

Case in point, Red Rock, Green Vally Ranch, and The M resort. All are off strip. Pretty far off strip actually and all do fine. Not everybody wants to be right on the strip. Especially after you have done that a few times. :rolleyes: Nice resorts. Nice amenities. And a shuttle if you want to hit the strip a night or two of your visit. Seems like they have found their niche.

Case in point #2. Locals, living in Vegas sometimes NEVER go to the strip. Even gamblers. I didn't play the strip for many years (even living nearby at times), until I started playing a different way which requires me to play busier crowded times.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

One big problem with the de-theming of Vegas is that resorts have absolutely no shot to compete if their location sucks.

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Yeah, I don't know about this?

Case in point, Red Rock, Green Vally Ranch, and The M resort. All are off strip. Pretty far off strip actually and all do fine. Not everybody wants to be right on the strip. Especially after you have done that a few times. :rolleyes: Nice resorts. Nice amenities. And a shuttle if you want to hit the strip a night or two of your visit. Seems like they have found their niche.

Case in point #2. Locals, living in Vegas sometimes NEVER go to the strip. Even gamblers. I didn't play the strip for many years (even living nearby at times), until I started playing a different way which requires me to play busier crowded times.

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Those are locals-aimed properties, and are a completely different matter.

Ones attempting to attract tourists, such as Rio, need to approach operations/marketing in a fashion which attracts the tourist.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Those are locals-aimed properties, and are a completely different matter.

Ones attempting to attract tourists, such as Rio, need to approach operations/marketing in a fashion which attracts the tourist.

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To some degree, but not entirely. All 3 of these resorts (Red Rock, M resort and Green Valley) have daily hourly or every 2 hour free airport shuttle service for guests. THAT is not locals, that is tourists that prefer resorts that are not right on the strip.

The only other casinos I can think of that have free airport shuttles hourly are Palace Station and Silver7. I can't think of a single strip resort that offers free airport shuttle for their guests. I mean sure, high rollers they will provide a limo for, but regular guests, the are saying "you are on your own". South Point offers an airport shuttle for its guests but at a fee.

You are talking about things that will get people (tourists) in the door. How about getting them from the airport to the resorts hassle free at the end of a long hassle full travel day?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Those are locals-aimed properties, and are a completely different matter.

Ones attempting to attract tourists, such as Rio, need to approach operations/marketing in a fashion which attracts the tourist.

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To some degree, but not entirely. All 3 of these resorts (Red Rock, M resort and Green Valley) have daily hourly or every 2 hour free airport shuttle service for guests. THAT is not locals, that is tourists that prefer resorts that are not right on the strip.

The only other casinos I can think of that have free airport shuttles hourly are Palace Station and Silver7. I can't think of a single strip resort that offers free airport shuttle for their guests. I mean sure, high rollers they will provide a limo for, but regular guests, the are saying "you are on your own". South Point offers an airport shuttle for its guests but at a fee.

You are talking about things that will get people (tourists) in the door. How about getting them from the airport to the resorts hassle free at the end of a long hassle full travel day?

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Good point, but they are primarily locals casinos.

I’m not very familiar with M resort or Green Valley but Red Rock was a very nice property last time I visited & one thing they did right was they had partnerships with Indian casinos including some in California to give away free stays to their bigger players.

This would bring in tourists that were actually bigger players & liked getting the free stays.

Also liked the quality of the property even if they were not thrilled about the non central location.

This is the sort of thing a smart business does versus some of these moron operated places.on or near the strip.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

Good point, but they are primarily locals casinos.

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When you and Dan Druff say these are "local casinos", I have to disagree to some extent. Yes, there are local players that show up and gamble for a few hours every day. More so than strip casinos resorts. These are in fact the kind of local casinos I played daily for the first 12 years or so of my time living in Vegas.

But guess what, if all their customers were locals, there would be no need for the hotel, restaurants, spas and other resort type features. Most of the people checking into rooms are from out of town....what you call tourists.

Now the airport shuttle thing may not seem a big deal, but if you add the cost of an uber or God forbid taxi to getting somewhere like Rio, vs a free shuttle, it is like another hidden fee. Not to mention the hassle of flying 5 hours from the East coast, 10 hours from Europe, 12-16 hours from Australia and then having that extra hassle and hidden fee of getting to the resort you are staying at. I really think that can be an important selling point for tourist type travelers that we are talking about.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

Good point, but they are primarily locals casinos.

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When you and Dan Druff say these are "local casinos", I have to disagree to some extent. Yes, there are local players that show up and gamble for a few hours every day. More so than strip casinos resorts. These are in fact the kind of local casinos I played daily for the first 12 years or so of my time living in Vegas.

But guess what, if all their customers were locals, there would be no need for the hotel, restaurants, spas and other resort type features. Most of the people checking into rooms are from out of town....what you call tourists.

Now the airport shuttle thing may not seem a big deal, but if you add the cost of an uber or God forbid taxi to getting somewhere like Rio, vs a free shuttle, it is like another hidden fee. Not to mention the hassle of flying 5 hours from the East coast, 10 hours from Europe, 12-16 hours from Australia and then having that extra hassle and hidden fee of getting to the resort you are staying at. I really think that can be an important selling point for tourist type travelers that we are talking about.

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Fair point.

It’s probably safer to say that it is more of a hybrid, locals & tourist resort than a pure locals place in the sense that Dotties would be a locals place.

Which is a good business model, if you can successfully attract both markets you have a bigger pool of customers.

Completely agree on the airport shuttle, smart idea.

As for the hotel I believe they wave resorts fees for NV residents?

Many people are into staycations now, and what type of people would want to stay at a casino / hotel close to where they live?

Older people with money that like to gamble.

So I don’t think we disagree. Its not purely a locals casino but a place with a successful hybrid model that pulls in a lot of locals and tourists.

In fact they are successfully doing in a saturated market what a lot of successful indian casinos in CA do, Pull in a large number of “locals” who live near by as well as tourists from out of state or from long distances.

10 years ago when Palms was still owned by Maloofs or whoever, before the couple year stint as a Station Casinos and before being sold to the Injuns, really had down the Local casino/tourist hybrid down to perfection. If you visited during the day it was locals, locals, locals, playing and eating. Show up after 5pm to play and it was tourists staying at the hotel.

10-12 years ago when I used to Play M resort regularly they sort of had the same thing. Locals during the day, out-of-towner/tourist after 5 pm.

One thing both these properties had in common was a gift give-away day every week. A shirt, with casino logo or small kitchen appliance or something that brought in the locals to play, while still filling their hotel with tourists.

Those casinos definitely are locals casinos.

They have a small percentage of tourists, yes.

However, many of the tourists stay there because they're visiting family who live in the area. Relatively few out-of-state tourists go to Red Rock without some other connection to the area.

These properties would be a gigantic flop if they didn't have their locals.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Those casinos definitely are locals casinos.

They have a small percentage of tourists, yes.

However, many of the tourists stay there because they're visiting family who live in the area. Relatively few out-of-state tourists go to Red Rock without some other connection to the area.

These properties would be a gigantic flop if they didn't have their locals.

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You aren't making sense Dan Druff. If the percentage of tourists is so small, why do these places have hundreds of hotel rooms and 4-5 restaurants?

I used to be chit-chatty at the tables when I played at these places. Really, I knew who the locals were at the table vs out-of-towners before I even asked, But I can't tell you the times I heard some variation of "we like to stay here because it is away from the strip". These were seasoned Vegas visitors, that liked to be away from the strip and these places provided that niche.

I really think Rio could do some of that, while still being close enough to the strip.

This might go down as one of the greatest paradoxes since the one “If you owned George Washington’s original Axe but you had replaced the blade 3 times & the handle once, then is it still George Washingtons Axe?”

Locals casino = A casino built for repeat customers who live nearby.

Tourist casino = A casino built for one-time or occasional visitors who traveled to get there.

A casino that derives significant income from both locals & tourists = ?????????

Maybe Garnabby can include a definiton of this type of casino in his Theory of Everything.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

A casino that derives significant income from both locals & tourists = ?????????

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YOU gave the answer. Hybrid.

Dan Druff is right that Rio is NOT on the strip so they can't be JUST a strip type tourist resort. But They are close enough (not 8 miles out like Red Rock and M resort that they can do well with some tourist type visitors. And being off strip they can get some local traffic as well. They can be one of those successful Hybrid if done right.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

A casino that derives significant income from both locals & tourists = ?????????

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YOU gave the answer. Hybrid.

Dan Druff is right that Rio is NOT on the strip so they can't be JUST a strip type tourist resort. But They are close enough (not 8 miles out like Red Rock and M resort that they can do well with some tourist type visitors. And being off strip they can get some local traffic as well. They can be one of those successful Hybrid if done right.

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What I get from the discussion is it appears Red Rock’s business & marketing plan was very well thought out and executed and it’s a well managed casino.

It’s seems like the business plan for the purchase of Rio & not to even mention Resorts World and Fountainbleau was something like:

“Derp, Vegas got lot Casino, Casino Get Money, We Spend Billion Dollar for Casino, We Get Lots Money!”

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

It’s seems like the business plan for the purchase of Rio & not to even mention Resorts World and Fountainbleau was something like:

“Derp, Vegas got lot Casino, Casino Get Money, We Spend Billion Dollar for Casino, We Get Lots Money!”

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Fountain Blue and RW are all about location. It was always a gamble that they could remake the north strip into something resembling mid and south strip with the higher end casinos. No one or two properties can do that. It would take a re-vitalization of the entire area. They would need to knock down Circus Circus and all those strip mall type tourist souvenir type places and build another 3-4 higher end mega resorts. Maybe that will happen at some point but by the time it does FB and RW won't be shiney and new anymore.

But as it stand now they are just isolated properties in the middle of no where. So NO or very little foot traffic like down by Ceasars and Bellagio, (on both sides of strip)

Here is another thing from Rio's past that could help. Rio Used to offer a free shuttle to the strip. I remember they used to drop off on the strip along side what used to be Bally's and then later changed the strip location to Ceasars. And then did away with it completely.

This provided an easy means for Rio Guests to get out to the strip for a few hours or evening, since they weren't on the strip. Now people staying at Rio and wanting to get to the strip either have to walk or take an uber, or if really cheap, maybe try to figure out the RTC bus system (202 bus along flamingo).

I mean no one is coming from out of town JUST to stay at Rio for 4 days are they? You want to get to the strip a couple times right?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Fountain Blue and RW are all about location.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

This dude is a fraud. He just tries to piece together things that he imagines goes on based on a culmination of bits and pieces of stories he pulls from the Internet. Clown world.

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RW isn't doing well because it lacks an IDENTITY. Late night it caters to wannabee gangster tattooed locals who hit the clubs, and daytime to special event and other tourists. The draw for the high rollers isn't quite there, and the regular lower end tourists just go wherever they may get a deal.

FB on the other hand is a premier property that is actually a cut above Wynn. I realize Dan the DanDruff man was shown some of their suites and said "he wasn't impressed," but Dan the Dandruff Man I get the impression isn't used to traveling the world staying at premier properties and is more looking for "a deal." FB's Fleur de Lis suites, especially the larger ones, lack nothing but a Bellagio fountain view.

FB has been completely sold out lately. Where they are today versus a year ago is quite different. Structurally, about all they failed on is their porte cochere main entry - it was designed and built 18 or so years ago, and it's just not big enough for the traffic the hotel is getting now, it's designed for a Vegas of 2007, not 2025. Compare the size of that porte cochere to say even Caesars and even Caesars has backed up traffic sometimes.

I'd say that over all the story at FB is "if you build it, they will come," while RW didn't build anything distinctive enough to draw.

These are the sorts of things you cannot expect an uneducated, untraveled homeless street prostitute to understand.