Cops in Blackhawk, Colorado are writing tickets for "Professional Gambling"

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Originally Posted by Garnabby

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

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Originally Posted by Garnabby

Like it, or hate it, casinos are just another legal business trying to make a buck. All of you guys ought to be rounded up for criminal harassment (stalking), the same as banned from forums for nothing but a different sort and degree of harassment. Ha.

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Yes casinos are just another legal business trying to make a buck, but people engaging in advantage play are also just another legal business trying to make a buck.

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Not illegal isn't necessarily legal, let alone strictly legal.

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Excellent point. Even though casinos are legal business they do frequently violate the law.

And since gaming regulators exist more to protect the casino industry than the public, they usually get away with it too.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Kew, you're acting just like the Democrats are as this shutdown got underway and continues: you're ignoring all I've said about how I played and the where, when, & why of it....and you're rewriting history using a bevy of lies to fit your polluted agenda.

I attribute it to your inability to succeed at basically anything other than concocting internet stories, along with your array of diseases and that crossed wire upstairs. :)

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Has NOTHING to do with democrats or government shutdowns Rob or any other weird thing you want to try to make it about. ThIS has to do with for more than a decade you told us you won at Video poker by some goofy progressive betting system, combined with "special" less optimal plays, that by some magical swipe of your hand was able to overcome the negative EV of the games you were playing. In other words your claims defied the math.

Now here all of the sudden, you are claiming to play +EV (over 100% return) to win. And that is great, I am glad you have a claim that isn't voodoo and doesn't defy the math, but what you are claiming you are 10 years to late.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

Excellent point. Even though casinos are legal business they do frequently violate the law.

And since gaming regulators exist more to protect the casino industry than the public, they usually get away with it too.

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yeah, THIS is the problem right here. As an AP, I don't fault the casinos for making it hard on APs and trying to weed out APs. BUT they have to do it legally. When they start violating rules and laws, there is a problem.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

Excellent point. Even though casinos are legal business they do frequently violate the law.

And since gaming regulators exist more to protect the casino industry than the public, they usually get away with it too.

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yeah, THIS is the problem right here. As an AP, I don't fault the casinos for making it hard on APs and trying to weed out APs. BUT they have to do it legally. When they start violating rules and laws, there is a problem.

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Yes, technically speaking, casinos are nothing more than thus AP scum. However, they got there first, so, time to live with it, stop unnecessarily causing even more trouble. No different with any other legal business. Ha.


Today, 10:10 AM#24
Garnabby Garnabby is online now
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Originally Posted by Garnabby

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

Excellent point. Even though casinos are legal business they do frequently violate the law.

And since gaming regulators exist more to protect the casino industry than the public, they usually get away with it too.

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yeah, THIS is the problem right here. As an AP, I don't fault the casinos for making it hard on APs and trying to weed out APs. BUT they have to do it legally. When they start violating rules and laws, there is a problem.

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Yes, technically speaking, casinos are nothing more than thus AP scum. However, they got there first, so, time to live with it, stop unnecessarily causing even more trouble. No different with any other legal business. Ha.


Today, 10:10 AM#24
Garnabby Garnabby is online now
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Actually casinos did not get there first.

First there were gamblers & then advantage players this is going back thousands of years.

After gamblers & advantage players existed for centuries then there were casinos.

Casinos are the relative newcomers to the gambling scene.

Not quite. Casinos were the first to mass produce it. Regardless,

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Anthropologists have also pointed to the fact that gambling is more prevalent in societies where there is a widespread belief in gods and spirits whose benevolence may be sought. The casting of lots, not infrequently dice, has been used in many cultures to dispense justice and point out criminals at trials—in Sweden as late as 1803. The Greek word for justice, dike, comes from a word that means “to throw,” in the sense of throwing dice.

European history is riddled with edicts, decrees, and encyclicals banning and condemning gambling, which indirectly testify to its popularity in all strata of society. Organized gambling on a larger scale and sanctioned by governments and other authorities in order to raise money began in the 15th century with lotteries—and centuries earlier in China with keno. With the advent of legal gambling houses in the 17th century, mathematicians began to take a serious interest in games with randomizing equipment (such as dice and cards), out of which grew the field of probability theory.

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Originally Posted by Garnabby

Not quite. Casinos were the first to mass produce it. Regardless,

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Anthropologists have also pointed to the fact that gambling is more prevalent in societies where there is a widespread belief in gods and spirits whose benevolence may be sought. The casting of lots, not infrequently dice, has been used in many cultures to dispense justice and point out criminals at trials—in Sweden as late as 1803. The Greek word for justice, dike, comes from a word that means “to throw,” in the sense of throwing dice.

European history is riddled with edicts, decrees, and encyclicals banning and condemning gambling, which indirectly testify to its popularity in all strata of society. Organized gambling on a larger scale and sanctioned by governments and other authorities in order to raise money began in the 15th century with lotteries—and centuries earlier in China with keno. With the advent of legal gambling houses in the 17th century, mathematicians began to take a serious interest in games with randomizing equipment (such as dice and cards), out of which grew the field of probability theory.

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So what exactly is your argument?

Gambling and advantage gambling have existed for at least 5000 to 7000 years.

Casinos have existed for around the last 500 years & modern style casinos have only existed for around 100 years.

Sure casinos were the first to mass produce it yes.

But why does that matter in terms of advantage players? Yes casinos have the right to kick them out of ban them.

But morally & legally speaking why is there anything wrong with playing in a casino at an advantage?

When the government is this big, it becomes a henchmen for the wealthy and powerful. Let's look at these accusations as another thing the rich and powerful dont even pay for beyond taxes. If the government had to pay for the defense team completely and the casino had to pay for all government actions, this would have never have happened. It's likely an action merely done to appease the casino helping them at full expense of the government.

Here's what most likely really happened. The guy that got the ticket was selling plays. He seen that the machine was in advantage mode so he sat down and waited for an AP to come along that he could sell the play to. He did this because he knew that AP's constantly make laps around the machines checking for advantage plays. He knew that someone would come along.

So why would he do that? Because he doesn't have any money. He's flat broke and trying to get his hands on a little scratch. Just like the guy on the corner with the sign. Sometimes they come with a sob story "I put my last $200 in the machine and couldn't hit it. Can you help me out?" He didn't put a dime in the damn thing.

And a lot of times these guys are way over priced. They'll try to sell it to you for way more than it's worth.

I always froze those guys out. Wouldn't give them a dime no matter how good the play was. By paying them you are encouraging them to do it again and again. I always told other AP's not to do business with those idiots.

So my guess is the guy was a repeat offender and a pest so the casino/cops put him out of business permanently. It might have even been an AP that dropped a dime on him. He may have been observed in a few casinos.

The case might get thrown out but they don't have to deal with that guy anymore.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Here's what most likely really happened. The guy that got the ticket was selling plays. He seen that the machine was in advantage mode so he sat down and waited for an AP to come along that he could sell the play to. He did this because he knew that AP's constantly make laps around the machines checking for advantage plays. He knew that someone would come along.

So why would he do that? Because he doesn't have any money. He's flat broke and trying to get his hands on a little scratch. Just like the guy on the corner with the sign. Sometimes they come with a sob story "I put my last $200 in the machine and couldn't hit it. Can you help me out?" He didn't put a dime in the damn thing.

And a lot of times these guys are way over priced. They'll try to sell it to you for way more than it's worth.

I always froze those guys out. Wouldn't give them a dime no matter how good the play was. By paying them you are encouraging them to do it again and again. I always told other AP's not to do business with those idiots.

So my guess is the guy was a repeat offender and a pest so the casino/cops put him out of business permanently. It might have even been an AP that dropped a dime on him. He may have been observed in a few casinos.

The case might get thrown out but they don't have to deal with that guy anymore.

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Good point. I'm not sure about "dropping the dime". If you're not on the machine to play then GTFO in a general sense. It is hard to say - I've known people trying to get money brought to them for big MHBs and I don't want to see those guys stiffed but some bum picking off plays worth a couple hundred or whatever - fuck them. While I can see either side of the AP thing - I can't see the side of the guy who feels entitled to sit in front of a machine and possibly even menace people away with 0 intention of playing it.

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Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday

When the government is this big, it becomes a henchmen for the wealthy and powerful. Let's look at these accusations as another thing the rich and powerful dont even pay for beyond taxes. If the government had to pay for the defense team completely and the casino had to pay for all government actions, this would have never have happened. It's likely an action merely done to appease the casino helping them at full expense of the government.

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This is a big problem and why we need a wealth tax. All these brainless people will scream commie shit and blah blah like they've been trained but reality is the game is totally rigged. Wealth has far far more discretionary income and that income gets compound interest. Poor people have very little to no discretionary income. So regardless of how hard they work - they can't really get ahead. And as this gets worse and worse - the wealthy look for places to park their capital. Go look at private equity and see what i has done for the average guy. The only way to store their wealth/value is by buying things poor people need and thereby increase the prices.
People can't begin to understand this. The right has been too brainwashed in calling it a "redistribution of wealth" that these cucks believe that shit. And meanwhile Trump comes along and gives more and more tax cuts to the wealthy. The whole thing is rigged as fucked. The game isn't fair and from anything I see it won't even start to get more fair anytime soon. Trump's policies have done nothing to pull us in the other direction.

I'd like any of these Trump Dick Suckers to tell me how I'm wrong. Please.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

So what exactly is your argument?

Gambling and advantage gambling have existed for at least 5000 to 7000 years.

Casinos have existed for around the last 500 years & modern style casinos have only existed for around 100 years.

Sure casinos were the first to mass produce it yes.

But why does that matter in terms of advantage players? Yes casinos have the right to kick them out of ban them.

But morally & legally speaking why is there anything wrong with playing in a casino at an advantage?

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Back to my standard primacy/recency trick, of looking at only the first and/or last lines of quotes, which I do about 90% of the time, redefined as the first line being the over-cautious line with the final line being the under-cautious line.

Here, if you know that you're taking advantage to the point that casinos don't tolerate it, then why bring yourself and the casinos into such direct conflict?

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

So what exactly is your argument?

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---> You Want a Real Costume, Right?

https://anagram-solver.net/So%20what...t?partial=true

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

But morally & legally speaking why is there anything wrong with playing in a casino at an advantage?

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---> I Wear the Black Hat: Grappling with Villains (Real and Imagined).

https://anagram-solver.net/But%20mor...e?partial=true

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Primacy and recency are cognitive effects within the serial-position effect, where people tend to remember the first items (primacy) and last items (recency) on a list or in a presentation better than the items in the middle. The primacy effect occurs because initial information has more opportunity for rehearsal and to enter long-term memory, while the recency effect is due to the most recent information being fresh and readily available in short-term memory.

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Neat, eh?

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Originally Posted by Garnabby

Back to my standard primacy/recency trick, of looking at only the first and/or last lines of quotes, which I do about 90% of the time, redefined as the first line being the over-cautious line with the final line being the under-cautious line.

Here, if you know that you're taking advantage to the point that casinos don't tolerate it, then why bring yourself and the casinos into such direct conflict?




---> You Want a Real Costume, Right?

https://anagram-solver.net/So%20what...t?partial=true

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

But morally & legally speaking why is there anything wrong with playing in a casino at an advantage?

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---> I Wear the Black Hat: Grappling with Villains (Real and Imagined).

https://anagram-solver.net/But%20mor...e?partial=true

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Primacy and recency are cognitive effects within the serial-position effect, where people tend to remember the first items (primacy) and last items (recency) on a list or in a presentation better than the items in the middle. The primacy effect occurs because initial information has more opportunity for rehearsal and to enter long-term memory, while the recency effect is due to the most recent information being fresh and readily available in short-term memory.

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Neat, eh?

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That’s the whole point.

You don’t take it to the point casinos don’t tolerate it.

You learn how to milk them right up to the line & get them to give you incentives for coming back on top of it,

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday

When the government is this big, it becomes a henchmen for the wealthy and powerful. Let's look at these accusations as another thing the rich and powerful dont even pay for beyond taxes. If the government had to pay for the defense team completely and the casino had to pay for all government actions, this would have never have happened. It's likely an action merely done to appease the casino helping them at full expense of the government.

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This is a big problem and why we need a wealth tax. All these brainless people will scream commie shit and blah blah like they've been trained but reality is the game is totally rigged. Wealth has far far more discretionary income and that income gets compound interest. Poor people have very little to no discretionary income. So regardless of how hard they work - they can't really get ahead. And as this gets worse and worse - the wealthy look for places to park their capital. Go look at private equity and see what i has done for the average guy. The only way to store their wealth/value is by buying things poor people need and thereby increase the prices.
People can't begin to understand this. The right has been too brainwashed in calling it a "redistribution of wealth" that these cucks believe that shit. And meanwhile Trump comes along and gives more and more tax cuts to the wealthy. The whole thing is rigged as fucked. The game isn't fair and from anything I see it won't even start to get more fair anytime soon. Trump's policies have done nothing to pull us in the other direction.

I'd like any of these Trump Dick Suckers to tell me how I'm wrong. Please.

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Here’s an interesting factoid:

The carried interest loophole which allows private equity fund managers to get taxed on income at around 20% for their compensation instead of the 37% anyone else would pay on that level of income costs about $1.3 Billion per year in lost tax revenue.

The 90% cap on gambling loss deductions which can potentially cause people to be taxed on phantom income is projected to raise around $1.1 Billion in annual tax revenue.

So why does anyone suppose this 90% change was made instead of eliminating a loop hole for investment fund managers?

The fund managers have a strong lobby, & gamblers have none.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday

When the government is this big, it becomes a henchmen for the wealthy and powerful. Let's look at these accusations as another thing the rich and powerful dont even pay for beyond taxes. If the government had to pay for the defense team completely and the casino had to pay for all government actions, this would have never have happened. It's likely an action merely done to appease the casino helping them at full expense of the government.

---

This is a big problem and why we need a wealth tax. All these brainless people will scream commie shit and blah blah like they've been trained but reality is the game is totally rigged. Wealth has far far more discretionary income and that income gets compound interest. Poor people have very little to no discretionary income. So regardless of how hard they work - they can't really get ahead. And as this gets worse and worse - the wealthy look for places to park their capital. Go look at private equity and see what i has done for the average guy. The only way to store their wealth/value is by buying things poor people need and thereby increase the prices.
People can't begin to understand this. The right has been too brainwashed in calling it a "redistribution of wealth" that these cucks believe that shit. And meanwhile Trump comes along and gives more and more tax cuts to the wealthy. The whole thing is rigged as fucked. The game isn't fair and from anything I see it won't even start to get more fair anytime soon. Trump's policies have done nothing to pull us in the other direction.

I'd like any of these Trump Dick Suckers to tell me how I'm wrong. Please.

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Here’s an interesting factoid:

The carried interest loophole which allows private equity fund managers to get taxed on income at around 20% for their compensation instead of the 37% anyone else would pay on that level of income costs about $1.3 Billion per year in lost tax revenue.

The 90% cap on gambling loss deductions which can potentially cause people to be taxed on phantom income is projected to raise around $1.1 Billion in annual tax revenue.

So why does anyone suppose this 90% change was made instead of eliminating a loop hole for investment fund managers?

The fund managers have a strong lobby, & gamblers have none.

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Just gives you a moral justification to cheat on your taxes.

Some sort of sin tax. Like extracting money out of people with DWIs. Some guy might not even be able to afford it to have a drivers license while richer guy writes check for 5k or whatever.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday

When the government is this big, it becomes a henchmen for the wealthy and powerful. Let's look at these accusations as another thing the rich and powerful dont even pay for beyond taxes. If the government had to pay for the defense team completely and the casino had to pay for all government actions, this would have never have happened. It's likely an action merely done to appease the casino helping them at full expense of the government.

---

This is a big problem and why we need a wealth tax. All these brainless people will scream commie shit and blah blah like they've been trained but reality is the game is totally rigged. Wealth has far far more discretionary income and that income gets compound interest. Poor people have very little to no discretionary income. So regardless of how hard they work - they can't really get ahead. And as this gets worse and worse - the wealthy look for places to park their capital. Go look at private equity and see what i has done for the average guy. The only way to store their wealth/value is by buying things poor people need and thereby increase the prices.
People can't begin to understand this. The right has been too brainwashed in calling it a "redistribution of wealth" that these cucks believe that shit. And meanwhile Trump comes along and gives more and more tax cuts to the wealthy. The whole thing is rigged as fucked. The game isn't fair and from anything I see it won't even start to get more fair anytime soon. Trump's policies have done nothing to pull us in the other direction.

I'd like any of these Trump Dick Suckers to tell me how I'm wrong. Please.

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Back to my ignore list you go.

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday

When the government is this big, it becomes a henchmen for the wealthy and powerful. Let's look at these accusations as another thing the rich and powerful dont even pay for beyond taxes. If the government had to pay for the defense team completely and the casino had to pay for all government actions, this would have never have happened. It's likely an action merely done to appease the casino helping them at full expense of the government.

---

This is a big problem and why we need a wealth tax. All these brainless people will scream commie shit and blah blah like they've been trained but reality is the game is totally rigged. Wealth has far far more discretionary income and that income gets compound interest. Poor people have very little to no discretionary income. So regardless of how hard they work - they can't really get ahead. And as this gets worse and worse - the wealthy look for places to park their capital. Go look at private equity and see what i has done for the average guy. The only way to store their wealth/value is by buying things poor people need and thereby increase the prices.
People can't begin to understand this. The right has been too brainwashed in calling it a "redistribution of wealth" that these cucks believe that shit. And meanwhile Trump comes along and gives more and more tax cuts to the wealthy. The whole thing is rigged as fucked. The game isn't fair and from anything I see it won't even start to get more fair anytime soon. Trump's policies have done nothing to pull us in the other direction.

I'd like any of these Trump Dick Suckers to tell me how I'm wrong. Please.

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Back to my ignore list you go.

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Wah wah dannyN. You bother to tell me that like a little sissy.

If you want to defend Trumpy or tell me I'm wrong then do so.

If you don't want to engage then simply don't.

But to bother posting to tell me I'm on ignore is just sorta pathetic. Like you think it matters to me on some level?

That post hit the truth head on pretty strong. Again, I'd love someone to tell me how I am wrong. I have no respect for Trump or the people who voted for him. If they are a friend I'll bite my lip but otherwise I just don't give any fucks. Say I'm deranged or whatever - IDGAF. People are fools for embracing this corrupt orange haired carnival barker. Straight up fools who don't deserve the standard of living they were GIVEN being born into this country.

Thank God we have guns and we can still talk like this.

God Bless America.

No bullshit.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

This is a big problem and why we need a wealth tax. All these brainless people will scream commie shit and blah blah like they've been trained but reality is the game is totally rigged. Wealth has far far more discretionary income and that income gets compound interest. Poor people have very little to no discretionary income. So regardless of how hard they work - they can't really get ahead. And as this gets worse and worse - the wealthy look for places to park their capital. Go look at private equity and see what i has done for the average guy. The only way to store their wealth/value is by buying things poor people need and thereby increase the prices.
People can't begin to understand this. The right has been too brainwashed in calling it a "redistribution of wealth" that these cucks believe that shit. And meanwhile Trump comes along and gives more and more tax cuts to the wealthy. The whole thing is rigged as fucked. The game isn't fair and from anything I see it won't even start to get more fair anytime soon. Trump's policies have done nothing to pull us in the other direction.

I'd like any of these Trump Dick Suckers to tell me how I'm wrong. Please.

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Back to my ignore list you go.

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Wah wah dannyN. You bother to tell me that like a little sissy.

If you want to defend Trumpy or tell me I'm wrong then do so.

If you don't want to engage then simply don't.

But to bother posting to tell me I'm on ignore is just sorta pathetic. Like you think it matters to me on some level?

That post hit the truth head on pretty strong. Again, I'd love someone to tell me how I am wrong. I have no respect for Trump or the people who voted for him. If they are a friend I'll bite my lip but otherwise I just don't give any fucks. Say I'm deranged or whatever - IDGAF. People are fools for embracing this corrupt orange haired carnival barker. Straight up fools who don't deserve the standard of living they were GIVEN being born into this country.

Thank God we have guns and we can still talk like this.

God Bless America.

No bullshit.

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Enjoy free speech while you can,

It seems like it’s under attack by both the left & the right.

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Originally Posted by DGenBen

Enjoy free speech while you can,

It seems like it’s under attack by both the left & the right.

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It isn't like the politicians who crave power and are evil have any particular reason to be one side or the other. I suspect it is just mostly dictated by recent history and social programming.

I haven't seen a leftist populist make it anywhere near the top like this. I'm not sure how it'd happen. AOC and her ilk might be annoying people who don't understand economics very well - but I see her just going down in flames vs trying to burn down the country with her.

THe new precedents being set alone .. I can only hope they're not the new normal.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Here's what most likely really happened. The guy that got the ticket was selling plays. He seen that the machine was in advantage mode so he sat down and waited for an AP to come along that he could sell the play to. He did this because he knew that AP's constantly make laps around the machines checking for advantage plays. He knew that someone would come along.

So why would he do that? Because he doesn't have any money. He's flat broke and trying to get his hands on a little scratch. Just like the guy on the corner with the sign. Sometimes they come with a sob story "I put my last $200 in the machine and couldn't hit it. Can you help me out?" He didn't put a dime in the damn thing.

And a lot of times these guys are way over priced. They'll try to sell it to you for way more than it's worth.

I always froze those guys out. Wouldn't give them a dime no matter how good the play was. By paying them you are encouraging them to do it again and again. I always told other AP's not to do business with those idiots.

So my guess is the guy was a repeat offender and a pest so the casino/cops put him out of business permanently. It might have even been an AP that dropped a dime on him. He may have been observed in a few casinos.

The case might get thrown out but they don't have to deal with that guy anymore.

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Decent theory, and very possibly true.

However, the one issue here is how this got disseminated to the public.

A guy named "Vegas T-bone" on X, who is some kind of Vegas-based AP, put this out on social media. Would he really be carrying water for some obnoxious Colorado AP who hogs machines in order to sell plays to vultures walking by?

There's no doubt the guy who held the machine was either broke or near broke, but I think there's a better chance that he scouts casinos for machines in positive states, then plops himself down and calls APs he knows in the area, and sees if they're willing to come down and buy the play from him. That's a little better than what you're describing, because he's not hogging machines and trying to sell to randoms. He's more acting as a spotter for a specific group of friends or associates.

The repeat offender part is a good theory. I had wondered that myself. Possibly the casino had witnessed him doing this multiple times, and finally decided to call the cops on him. If that's the case, it's not as bad as I thought, but I still don't like that law. Banning someone for doing this is fine, but hitting them with criminal charges? Get the fuck outta here...