As approved by the creditors committee in the Bankruptcy courtQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
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As approved by the creditors committee in the Bankruptcy courtQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Yup....and I can for sure locate tens of thousands of people each week of the year who can tell a story of safely returning home after winning cash jackpots. There are people who thrive on worrying about things that have little chance of ever happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
Oh no doubt. I'm just pointing out it happens and it happens more than you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
And by no means am I justifying casino credit. I don't have any nor want it for many other reasons. Main one being that I don't want them knowing my financial business.
OK.
There are people here who defend having casino credit and will do so until they've lost their very last dollar and beyond, by using the excuse that casinos don't do a normal credit or employment check--but having cage people know your bank account number and avg. daily balance is somehow a good thing. It makes no sense.
Rob there are people who use casino credit for only one reason: convenience and safety. Oops that's two reasons. Get off your soapbox about addiction, doing things the casino way, and problems with gambling. It's old and tiring. If you don't want a credit line and would rather travel with cash good for you.
I think Rob's argument is that most people don't have the discipline. I'll agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Actually--markers help me to maintain discipline. 80% of my credit line is my limit, and even if I were to exceed that, then my credit limit is my limit. Otherwise, what is to stop me from ATM'ing all day. But because I have a line of credit, I have never used an ATM in a casino other than to break a 100 into smaller bills. Now I have discipline anyway, but I don't think a credit line changes whether you have discipline or not.
You can bring cash to the casino or not--but if you limit your exposure to the cash you bring it is the same as limiting it to the credit line. It is the ATM that causes problems.
I used to just maintain a bank account in Vegas, so my risk in carrying cash was only from the bank back to the hotel. But I soon realized that it was a waste of time to go to the bank when I could simply draw a marker.
Regnis, one of my fave moments in LV had to do with me knowing I had a bank account there I could use. This was pre-internet. I flew in with twenty bucks in my pocket, rented a car, and drove to the bank. I was baffled as I squinted at the sign on the door. Evidently it was something called Nevada Day and all banks were closed. No ATM cards on me, and I would never, ever use those credit card advance machines, so I milked my $20 for a day. Back then, I could get a hot dog at Westward Ho for a buck and shrimp cocktails.
Nevada Day almost got me again a few years later. I never circled the damn thing on my calendar.
Not using casino ATM's ever--I'll agree with that all day long.
Not admitting that casino lines of credit are a casino tool aimed at weak and addicted gamblers as a way of getting them to gamble more and/or make seat-of-the-pants decisions to go to casinos to get their action fix--total baloney, and everybody here knows it.
Classic!!! In those days the buffet was only 2.95 too.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Rob final question: do you object to a credit line if the only issue (repeat: the only issue) is carrying cash?
You already know the answer to that, and the only reason why my position is seemingly so problematic to you is because it hits too close to home. And everyone sees that. This is a gambling forum, and some people actually truthfully answer and comment on the tough questions.
I don't know about you, but if I'm walking through the garage and someone pops out of nowhere, pushes a gun into my stomach and tells me to empty my pockets....well, I don't have many options....and trying to defend myself is probably one of the stupidest options I can do...unless I value the cash more than my life or well being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Or perhaps the big winner valeted his car. The thugs wouldn't have to get their car valeted and pick it up. It wouldn't be too difficult for someone to be waiting out there in the valet area, especially at a big casino like Caesars or Aria to spot the car the winner gets into. Of course, following the person home isn't going to be a cake walk. You'd be surprised how smart some criminals can be. And you'd also probably be surprised as to how stupid some criminals can be. But even if they are stupid and "robbing someone in the elevator wouldn't make sense" doesn't mean it can't/won't happen.
I remember in high school, a friend of mine had just gotten her driver's permit and was driving (me in back seat, her father in shot-gun). I don't remember exactly what happened, but I think someone tried to cut her off and she tried to not let the other car in the lane. Her father said, "Sure, you might be right. But being right is no good if you're dead."
Personally, I don't use markers. I always play with cash. I'm not paranoid when it comes to carrying cash or the possibility of getting robbed. But I know it's a real possibility. And I also know it's safer to play on credit than cash.
Although, I do agree with you regarding ATM's -- never use them.
Just one question for the cash advocates: a wad of $10,000 is not something that fits in a wallet or even a jacket pocket. $30,000 would look bigger than a six-inch sub. I remember watching a video poker player getting 40,000 cash for a $10/coin Royal. So do you guys really walk around with a baby bump?
A Vegas casino force-closed my safety deposit box a number of years ago, and I had to carry $147,000 back to my car.
I did it myself with no security. I had a big jacket on, but it was summer time!
I then got in my car and drove to LA with it, and move it to one of my boxes there! I didn't stop to go to the bathroom, but I did fear that I might get into an accident, be unconscious or dead, and the first responders would steal the cash!
It got there safely.
The most I've ever carried to the casino with me was $30-40,000 when I was a bit too young to think seriously about how dangerously idiotic it might be. I feel alright with carrying up to $5,000 when necessary. Anything beyond that I start to feel slightly uncomfortable about it. Paper money is slowly becoming obsolete and everything is becoming pixelated anyway!
Rob,
Do you have the same hate on for credit card companies? They would operate on the same theory as casino credit. People spend beyond their means. The majority of credit card holders are not paying off their monthly balance. Paying a $10 minimum and accruing interest penalties at 20% is crushing.
Just a side story on a related note about carrying cash:
When I was in my mid-20's I stayed in LA for a year. Found myself a cheap apartment just outside of west LA with the landlord's office directly across the street from my rental unit. Really nice older guy with a big white beard who drove a Jaguar sedan seemingly straight out of the TV series The Equalizer (think Edward Woodward with a beard).
Right after I signed the lease, I pulled out a modest wad of $100's (maybe $3,000 or so) to pay the security deposit and first month's rent. With a sincere look of concern wrinkled on his face the landlord winced, "Son, you shouldn't be carrying so much cash around like that. Dangerous in the city." At the time I just smirked at the suggestion with a sidelong glance at the office wall commanded by big whiteboard map with lots of red markers all throughout Los Angeles.
Turns out I unwittingly scoffed at one of the larger real estate developers in LA with a wide mix of residential apartment complexes, some office buildings, and other assorted commercial real estate worth $75-$150 million in his portfolio. All the red dots littering that bearded, grandfatherly landlord's map were his own properties. Maybe he knew what he was talking about when it came to carrying cash?!?
Today's Note of Irony:
Anybody who comments on a public forum about how much cash they are carrying, will carry, or how they carry it, unfortunately is now better served by not carrying cash and using markers.
Second Note of Irony: Rob is too smart to publicly announce that he carries or will carry cash, unless he's not really carrying it.
I always knew in the darkest crevasses of my psyche that Alan's Best Buys Las Vegas Forum was infested with violent felons who prefer alleyway muggings. Shame on my excess bravado.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
It all boils down to self discipline and self awareness. Some people have it but most don't. I've played in some of the seediest(sp) places in the country. One thing I'll do is after a large win is to stay and hang around for a while and see if anyone else notices I've won or saw me cash out. You don't necessarily have to leave right after a large win.
Jbjb what makes you think that once you've been targeted the crooks won't wait for you?
Frankly I think connecting markers with a lack of discipline is ridiculous. You can only default on a marker once. If someone has a lack of discipline credit cards provide easier access.
I see no reason to ever have more than a hundred dollars cash in my wallet. Ever.
If you can't notice something strange, then you don't have self awareness. Doesn't mean it can't happen. Just means it should lower the risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
And there's nothing wrong with only having $100 on you either. I'm not for or against credit. I just choose not to have any of it.
That's why I always valet park. Virtually zero chance of an attempted mugging between the handpay and your car at most places, and it's very unlikely at others. Of course, I never worry about it and rerely even think about it anyway since I have my prepared plan already set prior to walking into any casino.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
Alan, a hundred bucks won't impress the ladies, which is mandatory in S. Cal. and especially important for one who likes to play the field as often as you.
Rob I drive a 2003 car. I don't wash it because of the drought. I don't have to impress anybody. But I do have a credit line because it's smarter than carrying cash.
I can fit about $8K in my wallet. I can fit $15K in one pants pocket [with phone and keys], and another $10K in the other pocket [with the wallet]. If the weather permits, I can wear a sweatshirt that has a pocket I can fit $15K in comfortably. So that's about $45-48K I can carry. $10K fits easily into a jacket pocket....well, I guess it depends what kind of jacket you have. Not that I carry this much cash with me, but if I needed to, I definitely could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I think if you have cargo pants with all those extra pockets, you can probably fit $30-40K in each pocket, without the pockets bulging.
Just to put things into some kind of historical perspective, back in the 70's and 80's -- when "runners" made their rounds at sports books all over Las Vegas, the runners usually carried six digits in cash and often much more. The majority of them were, I believe, armed. They often had big fanny pack things wrapped firmly around their waists.
So Alan, when alacrity is important, cash is often the only way to go. These guys were trying to get lines before shifts and did not have five or ten extra minutes to negotiate markers or credit.
Rob's cash-carrying is subtle by comparison. I can see where he's coming from. Let's call a spade a spade. "Recreational player" is almost synonymous (or was in the 80's) with "tourist." Tourists shouldn't carry cash.
If you want to get a sense of what the runners were like, please watch "The Runner," which is a terrible movie, but it does give a reasonable sense of things. Plus it has John Goodman, and I love John Goodman.
That's funny, because if you weren't trying to impress the ladies then you wouldn't be using a Mercedes. The year doesn't matter. It's the thought*that counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Redietz as soon as you said runners carry guns I immediately put them in another category. I don't carry a gun. As I said early on show me a gun and I'll faint. Show me a knife and I'll run like hell.
Rob there's nothing impressive with a 2003 Mercedes. Cash value about $2500. Trust me - no one dates me for my car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Runner is a decent movie and I too love John Goodman. But to borrow a take on a line from the Wizard's arsenal....Alan can't get past the fact people who open casino lines of credit gamble much more than they normally would or should, and much of that has to do with seat-of-the-pants decisions to take a trip to a gambling location at any time of the day.Otherwise, no casino would offer it (unless of course they wanted to show their good will towards those afraid of carrying cash :))
God bless simple common sense....and the TRUTH!
Rob I think that any player with a credit line definitely does play more. A caual, low limit player would not have a credit line. In fact I think most casinos have a minimum for a credit line. The player who takes $600 to Vegas would not qualify for a credit line.
Where is your research that having a credit line makes you gamble more? Show the research.
Got to disagree Rob. Nothing about a marker has ever made me bet more than I otherwise would. In fact, it helps keep the lid on because, again, it limits the overall amount with which I have to gamble. Cash is always readily available--a marker has my own self imposed limit in its amount and I cannot exceed that.
JBJB--I also am always aware and watching. The one occasion in which I was attacked in a Caesars hallway I became suspicious in the elevator even though it was full. But because I always have a high floor, everyone else had left the elevator and I was alone with the guy I was suspicious of. He followed me off the elevator and down the hallway. Just as he was ready to strike, a door opened and I rushed into it scaring an old lady to hell. I quickly explained it to her and had her call security.
Alan--2002 acura with 220,000 miles.
2003 Mercedes C240 (entry level) 260,000 miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
Too many Vegas trips!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I hate flying.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
One thing's for sure: Keeping a car forever like that is good for the environment, for it defers or eliminates any and all strains on the Earth's resources that are involved in producing a brand new vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Your car might not put you in the "Mile High" Club with the ladies, but you still may want to share your story with the "High Mile" Club soon....:cool:
https://highmileclub.wordpress.com/
From where you live, I'd just drive also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
The research lies in the plain and simple fact that casino credit is something casinos want every one of their customers to have. Guess why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I've never been offered it, but I sure as hell get tons of credit card offers that constantly get shredded. I don't need nor want credit. If I can't pay cash, I don't need it.
Okay. You have no proof. It's just another "Rob Singerism."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Alan, why do you let Rob continue to make false and ridiculous claims on your forum? I know this isn't particularly a gambling-educational forum, but don't you think it's doing a disservice to the public to allow such false claims to be made? Some people might even believe Rob's nonsense. And I'm not talking about only this thread.
Then do you have any reasoning to refute my belief on why casinos offer lines of credit? Or does that goofy statement by the most inexperienced gambler here, RS, have so much clarity that only someone like Brian Williams would stand behind.....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Rob I am sure casinos want to make it easy for players to get access to money but that doesn't mean players are addicted or trapped by casinos when they use credit lines. Yes you can use a credit line for your own safety and convenience. Using a credit line doesn't mean you're trapped.
That's funny. I had a dream the other night that I won $400K at a casino. They asked me how I'd like to be paid, and I said beaming, CASH PLEASE! After a shocked look on the cashiers face, her and a supervisor started counting $10K bundles in front of me. I was jamming them in my cargo shorts front and side pockets and the rest in my wife's purse. After waking up, I started thinking about the taxation part of it, and I couldn't get back to sleep for an hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Seriously though, if I won that kind of money I would take a check for all but a few thousand. Would tax withholding be automatic or could I pay later myself?
The biggest single win I ever had in Vegas was a video poker progressive of about 28 - thousand. I was asked if I wanted taxes withheld and I declined.
I never hit a six point Firebet in Vegas for $10K but I was told $2500 withholding is mandatory in Nevada. It was not required for $5000 which I've hit. In California I know of
No mandatory withholding.
I had a single hit for 70K in AC and was told withholding was mandatory at that level .
Alan,
So you were not required to withhold taxes on your $28,000 jackpot win but they will mandatorily withhold 25% on a $10,000 fire bet win?
Correct. This is what I was told in the craps pit at Caesars -- that a 25% withholding on a $10K Firebet pay is mandatory. I've hit progressives at Rincón for $35K and $36K without withholding.Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyj
I also found the ruling on the $10K Firebet withholding odd.
If you win big at the craps table, the casino does have to report the win under the reporting requirements for cash transactions over $10,000, but no withholding is required. Not sure why they are withholding on the fire bet and I can't find any published rules.
I always laugh when people "sneak" chips into their pockets to avoid the reporting rules. The crew knows where every big chip has gone and how many are in your pocket unless it's a huge game where everyone is getting orange and purple chips. And even then, they pretty much know and have filed the report without your knowledge anyway.
Years ago I won big at Paris and didn't want to redeem my marker because I wanted to make a few big horse plays the next day. So I walked down the hall to Ballys to cash---and of course they redeemed my markers first.
Table games are supposed to be:
a) 300 to 1 or more and
b) $600 or more.
That is same as horses. But I have never had any amount withheld in craps, including 6 figure wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
Whenever you go to the cage with big chips they will always check for outstanding markers. They want their money back, ya know.Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
I was in the high limit room at Caesars a few years back when a player hit a royal and said he wanted his $20,000 in cash. The floor person went to the cage to get it, but when she returned she had a suit with her and the suit said, "I'm sorry, we need you to pay back your $12,000 in markers first."
Regnis,Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
Six figure wins in craps.....You're my new hero.
regnis, if it was a single bet, then it would be eligible for the withholding of 25% (or whatever percentage it is). If you won 6 figures over a period of time and not on a single bet, then it would (likely) not be eligible for the withholding of 25%. That isn't to say it shouldn't be reported come tax time, because you should report all wins/losses, whether or not a form is attached (ala W2G).
This makes no sense. I've played craps with players with $10,000 on the pass or come and won (even money) and there was no 25% withholding. I've played with high rollers who had $10,000 flat bets with $50,000 odds and won and there was no withholding. I can understand a W2G on a $10,000 Firebet pay but why the mandatory withholding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Hi Alan:
Man has this thread meandered away from the initial topic. At any rate, I am no tax professional and you cannot rely on my guidance, but I believe that the operative information is found in the IRS booklet named "Instruction and Forms for W-2G and 5754" as follows:
"Withholding
You must withhold federal income tax from the winnings if the winnings minus the wager exceed $5,000 and the winnings are at least 300 times the wager. Withhold 25% of the proceeds (the winnings minus the wager). This is regular gambling withholding."
So the six point fire bet at a $10 bet requires withholding $2,500 for federal tax purposes because it is pays off at 1000 for one (more than 300 for one) and pays off exceeding $5,000. By contrast a five point fire bet pays off at 250 for one and is not subject to mandatory withholding at any bet amount. Moreover, a $5 fire bet which hits six unique points pays $5,000 (minus the $5 bet) and is not subject to withholding since it does not exceed $5,000. So if you do not want mandatory withholding, I suggest you limit your fire bet to $5 like I do.
FAB
Thanks FAB for clearing that up.
If I knew a player was going to hit all six points, I would not limit my bet to $5 just to avoid the mandatory withholding. With that kind of advance knowledge I'd certainly bet the whole $10 and worry about the taxes later.
Alan if your crystal ball can predict a six point fire bet, please give me a ring and let me join you at the craps table.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
FAB
Why would anyone worry about taxes withheld when it comes to huge wins? The only smart move is to take the entire win and don't be worrying about taxes until later. Why give the government a cut to use when it's yours?
The only mandatory taxes I've ever ran into were on $1200 & up jackpots I've hit in the southern states and a few in the Midwest, but it's always a State tax. I think out-of starters can apply for some type of a refund at tax time but I've never bothered.
They're talking about table games. And at a certain point, there is no choice. It gets withheld whether you want it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Few and far between. You have to do some stupid things like a triple parlay on a hard 10 for $50. I won't get into dice control or influence but hard 10 is my number and there is a particular throw that is different from my regular throw for the hard 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyj
Teasing is not allowed on this forum. That is rule # 1003.48A so you must tell!!Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
I hate rules!!! I was trying to avoid re-opening a discussion of dice influence. But when I was a serious dice thrower, 8 and 10 were my numbers, and when I wanted a hard 10 there was a slight variation in my throw for a hard 10. I can't describe the variation (not cause I don't want to but cause I don't know how to) other than to say that an extra revolution was involved. The more revolutions the more risk of error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
In any event, a triple parlay is stupid and is subject to table limits so is usually a double parlay plus.
You might ask why I didn't always try for hard ten if I had some degree of success doing so. The downside was a lot of 5-2's so it was high risk. But I and a few regulars who know me always have a hard 10 hopping on the come out and then always bet the 10 when I roll.
Rule number 1003.48A-a1 you must at least reveal the set you used.
That's awesome. If the casino allows a high odds bet (10x or greater) would you be inclined to put bet table minimum with max odds or just buy the 10?Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
Put bets are not allowed on hardways -- only box and pass. So he had to just make big bets on the hard ten.
Thanks Alan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I understand the rules. But, if I know Regnis, (and I don't) he wasn't JUST on the hard 10.
Regnis,
I think you mentioned once before about playing at a 100x odds table, (I could be wrong) that is why I was wondering if that was the case, would you be more inclined to put bet min. with large odds or just buy the 10. Assuming the 10 is not your point.
Danny-In Illinois we have 100x odds at most casinos. Until my bet is over $100, I place or buy. Once I am over $100, I put if allowed or come. On the pass line, I always will use the lowest denomination and increase my odds. My initial bet if I am throwing would be $200 or $250 on the 10, $50 hard 10; lowest pass line bet with $150 odds; and a complimentary number for $100 or $125. If numbers start hitting I will place the others for $50 and convert to put bets with odds and increase the odds as the roll progresses. When I hit max odds I increase the base by another $5.00.
In vegas, I never put or come and only pass when I shoot. Otherwise, I place or buy. You will find old threads here about place bets vs. pass and come and why I disagree with the "experts" on that.
I will power press on a good roll and I have hit a 25,000 10 on occasion. It just doesn't happen often enough. I don't claim that my bets are necessarily the best bets with the lowest house edge. Quite the contrary. But I do attack if there is a good hand. I hate to see a good hand and nobody makes any money. I am willing to lose my buy-in quickly--but I will take advantage of a good roll. You have to have some degree of recklessness, in my opinion, in craps or you will get ground down.
My 2 favorite rolls were :
1--when I had $35 left in the rack and was leaving for the airport. Two guys passed the dice--so they came to me- so I figured I may as well blow the 35. An hour and 40 later I cashed out over $70,000 and missed my flight.
2--I had a closing in Los Angeles on a Monday. So I went to vegas for the weekend and then flew into LA in the morning. The one hour closing took 6 hours and I was changing my flight back to vegas every hour. Finally made it back to vegas, changed clothes and went right to the table. Had my biggest roll ever and made 18 8's starting at $300. Power press every other (or more often if hard)--you do the math.
I am an overall winner in craps, but a huge loser in video poker. But plenty of horrible short bust outs in craps when you play my style. It ain't for the faint hearted.
I am just the opposite. I am an overall winner in video poker and I would be embarrassed to tell you how much I lost at craps.Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
Then quit playing craps!
I've changed how I play craps and I wrote about it here. Now I play the passline with the FireBet. If I get just one pass, even a 7 or 11, on a come out, I essentially have a break even hand with the FireBet.
On my last trip to Vegas, I hit four numbers on the Firebet for $250 and only with a $10 passline bet.
About a year ago, I was at a table when FIVE numbers on the Firebet were hit TWICE and I only made a $25 passline bet. The Firebets paid off $2500 X 2.
Now, while my strategy is good for a negative expectation game, do you realize how STUPID I looked in all three of the examples I just gave you?
On my own hand when I hit four numbers, I also hit a winner on the 9 THREE times. In all, I had SIX passes. Other players made THOUSANDS on my hand.
In the case of the two hands when five numbers were hit by TWO players at the same table, most of the players at the table colored-up between $5,000 and $10,000 each and I got my $2500 plus the passline wins on each player.
Sometimes being "smart" is really being "dumb."
I couldn't play that way. But if you are comfortable playing that way then who cares if it's smart or dumb.
When I first went to vegas in my early 20's I played BJ and counted cards and played near perfect strategy etc. It was too boring for me. I had played craps all my life with my father in our basement--practicing shooting and developing strategies--but I didn't have the bankroll. Once I had a small bankroll, I never wanted to play BJ again. But I need the thrill of an aggressive approach to craps. I am not trying to stand there for 4 hours and break even.
I am the dumb one, but the big wins cover a lot of small losses.
I knew of one casino that for a long while paid $4000 straight up, no bet required, to anyone who could shoot all 6 different points before a seven out. Only the shooter qualified.
Thanks Regnis,Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
While some may think being aggressive is reckless I do not, having said that, it is what I struggle with most. For me, after showing a profit, I need to get on the gas more. Still trying to get to a five figure win level.
It angers me when I see players take their bets down early into what turns out to be a good roll because they are so used to losing that they cash a few bets and lock it up, only to lose it right back on the next shooter who sucks. Or even worse, come down off a number and then after it hits a few more times come back in on that number.
If I hit a number once or twice, I now am not at risk and I will power press every other (at least). You can't get to a high amount on a number if you don't press. That time I had 18 8's I was laughing because most of the other players were still at $12--never pressed at all. I understand some people are just there to kill time and trying not to lose too much. But I would rather play to win--and if I lose there are other things to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by regnis
Regnis: I have to agree with this based on my own limited craps experiences. Most of my craps playing was when I was young for smaller stakes. I am still ahead a few thousand for craps even though I haven't shot dice for decades.
My biggest runup was turning a throwaway $40 into $1,800 or so doing exactly what you suggested: Pressing the numbers hard while the roll was proceeding well.
You really have to approach it like Archie Karas if you want a big score, but set a strict budget that you will never exceed if things don't pan out during any session.
EDIT: I think Archie's downfall was being willing to go on long losing streaks without any budget or constraints. Just the psychological shakeup of losing $10 million+ in one day would stop any feel-good winning streak in its tracks beyond the provisional dollar values involved.
They had that at Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin, IL for many years. Don't know if they still have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb