Yeah, Darryl may not understand the difference between a calendar comp based on ADT vs a 7 stars forced comp because he has never had to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Intense player anger won’t occur because the players they care about will get comped rooms anyway.
Going back and forth with Darryl on Twitter about this. He still doesn't get it. I don't think he wants to get it. I have no idea why a guy who always come off as intelligent and sharp is having such a hard time with this relatively easy concept.
I really think he wants to believe this isn't a big deal because he initially took that position, and doesn't want to look bad for dismissing it as no big deal.
I think the intense player anger won't occur for awhile because people won't realize it. I believe that many are like Darryl -- they don't understand how the Seven Stars comp works, and only care if they can book comp rooms! That is, they don't care HOW they're getting comped, just that it happens!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dankyone
So the higher-ADT players will keep seeing these comps, and won't realize anything's wrong -- at least not for awhile.
But I do think that player outrage will start trickling in over the first half of 2018, as more and more people suddenly run into rooms they can't book complimentary, and get pissed.
However, I am pretty sure that CET was aware that there would be some backlash, and have gone forward with it anyway, so it would have to be a higher-than-expected level of outrage for them to reverse this. That probably won't happen.
It's very clear to me that CET is doing its best to avoid directly announcing this policy change (and advising TR reps to downplay it), knowing that many players who qualify for comps anyway won't even realize it, so there's no need pissing them off.
Dan how many Seven Stars do you think there are who "work the system" the way you do?
It wouldn't surprise me if there were no more than TEN others like you. I think Caesars knows that too.
I also think that there are so many people gambling big money that they don't care about "minimal Seven Stars." I'm also a minimal Seven Stars player.
I see who they fawn over now: the last time I was at Caesars there were five young guys, probably no older than 30, at my craps table. I was making $10 bets and they were betting with $500 chips. They took markers for $15,000 EACH. After about two hours of play they lost about $10,000 each (a big roll at the end got them about $5,000 each). Then a host walks up and says their limo is waiting to take them to play golf. And a bellman is coming with their clubs. That's the new player Caesars is seeing.
These guys weren't even Seven Stars. I think they had gold cards, and it was their first visit.
But this is who Caesars will cater to now. Lower level players who want big comps for little play have become a pain in the ass.
Come on Alan, the Total Rewards program is a super valuable and successful asset of theirs. They even valued it at a billion dollars during the bankruptcy! They're not going to just throw all of that away because some Seven Stars grinders are irritating them.
You seem to fail to understand that they're not just aiming this at overcomped Seven Stars members. If it were, they could easily kick us out of the program, and almost no one else would be affected.
This is aimed at probably a large segment of the Seven Stars crowd who get to 150k and severely slow down their play because it seems like the law of diminishing returns (which it is).
Then these same people want continued free hotel rooms everywhere, including during high occupancy periods, and they end up getting it.
Caesars is probably tired of those play slowdowns and they want to keep all players on their toes, continually earning to justify their ongoing room comps. So even a non-grinder who just slows down his play at 150k and stays a few times without playing much will probably find himself not qualifying for comp rooms, especially during otherwise expensive periods.
I see what they're trying to accomplish. By taking this room comp away, they're capping the value of Seven Stars at a fixed number under $3000. There's no longer an open-ended comp that people can keep using to their heart's desire. Now it's mostly back to the old model -- you get what you earned from your recent play -- with a few finite benefits (the trip, the $500 in meal vouchers, etc) to make it still look pretty.
They also figure that their most valuable Seven Stars will never be left without a room comp anyway (based upon their ADT), so they'll never notice.
But don't fool yourself into thinking that this only will affect a tiny percentage of Seven Stars.
One day you're going to try and book a room and find yourself with a rate, and they're going to tell you that your recent play wasn't good enough, or that this weekend is too expensive.
Then you'll realize that it's not just the bonus whores who are going to suffer here.
The best thing about Total Rewards Seven Stars was that you could comp yourself. Once you had enough RCs banked and the Seven Stars status, you could basically stay for free and eat for free for a long time, and you'd only play when you'd feel like playing.
That model is gone now. It's back to the constant game of having to earn enough to make your host and/or the computer happy.
Alan, that Eric Rosenthal guy, who wrote the Travelzork coulmn, is a perfect example of the player they're going to lose from this.
He admits to being a recreational gambler. He's a table games player, and says it takes a long time to make Seven Stars (he's right).
He isn't a comp whore, and he's not working the system.
However, he also wants to feel like he's valued as a customer. He found that other casinos had better offers, better properties, etc, but he put his action mostly with CET because he loved the idea of the guaranteed comp room at the large network of properties in the US.
Now that this is gone, he asked himself, "Why should I give any action to CET anymore? Their comps aren't the best, their properties aren't the best, their customer service isn't the best... why bother?"
So he's not going to re-earn it, and he's going to move his action elsewhere in 2018.
If I were in CET management, I would be freaking out over losing players like this. They WANT the table games player who is prolific enough to get to Seven Stars. He dutifully plays and plays and plays to get that status. He mostly ignores their competitors while doing so, despite acknowledging their superiority in many ways. Now he's gone.
Another guy discussing this on Twitter is a recreational gambler who loves to take his family around the country to different CET properties, and stay for free. He also is not a comp whore or an AP. He's just a regular guy who likes gambling and enjoys the fringe benefit of a standing room comp at lots of casino hotels around the US. Once again, that guarantee is gone, and so is his business.
They are making a big mistake here.
There were many ways to handle this room comp situation if they weren't happy with it.
They could have kicked the comp whores out of the program. They could have capped the number of free nights one could redeem with that benefit in one year. They could have blacked out popular dates from that benefit.
Removing it entirely was the worst possible choice.
We shall see the fallout as the year progresses.
Holy crap. I just saw this thread or at least started reading it. Yeah, free rooms is probably the most important part to the 7 stars program. Without guaranteed free rooms, I likely won't do it next year. I know two others who most likely won't either. I know a fourth who was considering doing a 7 Stars run in January, because he always has friends coming to town and would like to put them up "for free" at a CET property on the strip. He likely won't be earning 7 stars without the guarantee free rooms.
The cheapest you can do a 7* run in LV is about $4,500. We certainly don't get $4,500+ of value out of the free rooms and other benefits. But simply the ease of use and guarantee that you can get a room is worth the additional cost, IMO. Sort of like having a lawyer on retainer - it costs more but it's more hassle-free.
Dan all I can say is its a new Era. I'm accepting it. Fortunately for me I don't have to stay in a hotel when I'm in Vegas so my only concern is a good game and offers for free play and dining.
Red Rock has a great craps game. $10 bets on the 4 and 10 pay $19 while everyone else pays $18. They have Bonus Craps which I love. The tables have a good bounce and they're the right size. There's free parking. It's a clean casino and few smokers. I haven't played there enough yet to get any mailers, however, so I don't know what offers I might get.
You have a problem. You need CET for free rooms during WSOP. Unfortunately you can post all you want on this forum and it won't help. But I have a suggestion: call the gaming writer at the LV Review Journal. That's your best shot.
That's actually not a bad idea -- to contact the Gaming writer at the LVRJ. I think I might actually do that.
I would love for the media to get a hold of this story and alert everyone to CET's shenanigans with this one.
I just scrolled quickly through the 2018 7* benefits on TR.com. I'm seeing...
Quote:
Guaranteed Room with 72 hours notice in Atlantic City and Las Vegas5
Upgrade to best available room at check-in2
Complimentary early check-in / late check-out2
Quote:
2Restrictions apply. Please see Total Rewards Center for complete details.
Note: the "restrictions apply" is for #2, which is about upgraded rooms and late check out, and not guaranteed comp rooms.Quote:
5Where available. Member responsible for the prevailing room rate at time of booking. Blackout dates may apply.
But I'm still reading it. But just from that it looks like LV and AC are good for comp rooms guarantee.
Although I do see this
Unfortunately the #1 doesn't show up on anything, as far as I can tell.Quote:
1Some of these benefits and privileges are based on play/activity while using your Total Rewards card. Additional restrictions may also apply.
"Guaranteed room" is a wording trick.
Has never meant "comp room" at any property anywhere. That's a common "benefit" of upper-tier cards: We will hold a room for you, but you may have to pay a fortune for it!
Well... ummm... thanks, I guess.
Ah, touché.
Yes, the Seven Stars benefits changed its wording from “Complimentary room” to “Guaranteed room”. Guaranteed availability means you still might have to pay a rate if your ADT doesn’t justify a comp on the dates you want.
Alan claimed in another thread that he had been informed that Caesars may not "enforce" the free room removal from Seven Stars.
I asked privately who informed him of this, and he told me that a host had informed him that she would still be comping all of her Seven Stars players.
That's what I'm hearing many people are being told, and in fact that's what a casino services employee tried to tell me when I called in December (without identifying myself).
I am here to tell you that this is all BS.
Seven Stars comps were special because they were enabled by a specific booking code. This booking code was not made public (and I think perhaps not even usable on the website), but could be used by both hosts and call center employees.
If you did not otherwise qualify for a room comp, as I frequently didn't, they could enter your Seven Stars booking code and it would force it through as a comp booking.
Without this code, there will be no Seven Stars room comps, and your only comps will be due to ADT (play-related) or mailed offers. Your comps will no longer have anything to do with you being a Seven Stars member.
This code is generated each year. There has not yet been one generated for 2018, and there are currently no plans to generate such a code. At the moment, the 2017 code still works, but only on bookings ending by January 31. After that, the 2017 code will expire, and without a 2018 code, there will be no Seven Stars room comps.
Some players will still get room comps because their play justifies it, but that's not due to being Seven Stars. That's simply from earning it due to recent/semi-recent past play, and you would earn the same (or better) room comps at other, non-Caesars casinos.
So when your host (or other CET employees) tells you that this change is inconsequential, don't believe them. They're just telling you what you want to hear, possibly because they believe your play will justify comps anyway.
This is a huge change.
Prior to 2018, Seven Stars members were NOT a slave to playing regularly in order to qualify for room comps. Now they are.
Enjoy!
Just an interesting note to add to this. Just received a random AC offer (nothing special) but noted the following at the bottom of the email:
“As always, Seven Stars® guests will receive a complimentary stay, any day.”
Anyone else see language like this in offers?
I think that's VERY significant. Vegas goers should look for that. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by simmoja3
"a" may be a key word
What about "any day"?Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
Looks pretty clear to me.
you can have "a" free room on a day of your choosing
What did you expect, half the floor?Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
doesnt say anything about a complimentary stay everyday.
or complimentary stays
You're going to nitpick this too? Is this going to turn into a 30 page thread? When a Seven Stars books an offer in Atlantic City they'll let us know what they get. I'll wait. Don't even bother to respond Larry, because I won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
I agree that this is significant -- IF it was written by someone knowledgeable about the 2018 situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI think that's VERY significant. Vegas goers should look for that. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by simmoja3
Unfortunately, a lot of these local market mailers/e-mails are written by clueless idiots. Darrly McEwen's Seven Stars Insider newsletter makes fun of at least a few of these every month, with some astoundingly inaccurate things written in them. I've even seen where people are invited to book reservations at restaurants which no longer exist.
It's very possible that the author of this mailer was still of the belief that the 2018 Seven Stars program was the same as the 2017 Seven Stars program.
As we get closer to January 31, I will attempt to call the 800 number and attempt to book a stay after February 1 with my Seven Stars benefit. I will report out here how successful that is. I'm not bothering now because often they haven't generated the code yet by this time of year, so a denial won't be very meaningful.
This is bad news, here in ac, u have no idea how many of us 7 stars depend on the free 4 night guaranteed room. One of my low roller friends just made 7 stars last year, only for the free room, boy she is going to be pissed. Many 7 stars I know in ac including myself live in ac casinos all year round, 2 seven stars patner up and get rooms. Now if it is based on adt, all of us r screwed, we make 7 stars by grinding out video poker on multiplier days, we r there all year, so it’s easy to grind it out. But our adt is bad, we don’t even get free gifts or even 5 $ free play anymore. Now with asp 1&2 gone, we just going to have to grind till 25000tc and leave, the diamond lounges in ac are worth going for 25000tc
The days of milking 7 stars looks like it’s over
Wow, people in AC actually live at Caesars properties by teaming up to deal with the 2-day gap?
So they are roommates? That sounds extreme.
And I thought I was bad!
lucky, how many of these people know what's about to happen? Is there panic among AC Seven Stars about this?
We only book rooms at harrahs atrium suites, we get it every time. It has 2 separate rooms with 2 separate tv refrigerator etc. U get plenty privacy. Most don’t know and when I told them, after seeing it here, refuses to believe
Hi Dan:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
This AC gambit of living in CET properties as Seven Stars makes you look like a babe in the woods when it comes to exploiting Total Rewards. So maybe these Total Reward benefits changes weren't really made to address your action but rather actions in AC.
Daryl, the Seven Stars insider guy, has a news column in Atlantic City. I would have assumed that he knew what people were doing in light of the Total Reward benefits. But if he did not, and his Seven Stars Insider analysis seems to indicate ignorance, it shows his lack of knowledge of the gambits going on there. I am pretty sure that the Diamond Lounge obstacles at AC were a result of such shenanigans including selling Companion passes.
FAB
Here in ac, comp abusers are plentiful, they sell rooms, companion card, free play, food comps etc It’s one huge comp abuser s playground. Darryl doesn’t know because he doesn’t hang out with the low roller7 stars.
Yes, this is probably some “oops!” written by whatever idiots write most of the CET communications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI agree that this is significant -- IF it was written by someone knowledgeable about the 2018 situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI think that's VERY significant. Vegas goers should look for that. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by simmoja3
Unfortunately, a lot of these local market mailers/e-mails are written by clueless idiots. Darrly McEwen's Seven Stars Insider newsletter makes fun of at least a few of these every month, with some astoundingly inaccurate things written in them. I've even seen where people are invited to book reservations at restaurants which no longer exist.
It's very possible that the author of this mailer was still of the belief that the 2018 Seven Stars program was the same as the 2017 Seven Stars program.
As we get closer to January 31, I will attempt to call the 800 number and attempt to book a stay after February 1 with my Seven Stars benefit. I will report out here how successful that is. I'm not bothering now because often they haven't generated the code yet by this time of year, so a denial won't be very meaningful.
Anyone who received that AC email should forward it to Darryl, he will have a field day with it.
Then again, I don’t think he understands the difference between a comped room based on ADT and a 7 stars guaranteed room comp.
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonteHi Dan:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
This AC gambit of living in CET properties as Seven Stars makes you look like a babe in the woods when it comes to exploiting Total Rewards. So maybe these Total Reward benefits changes weren't really made to address your action but rather actions in AC.
Daryl, the Seven Stars insider guy, has a news column in Atlantic City. I would have assumed that he knew what people were doing in light of the Total Reward benefits. But if he did not, and his Seven Stars Insider analysis seems to indicate ignorance, it shows his lack of knowledge of the gambits going on there. I am pretty sure that the Diamond Lounge obstacles at AC were a result of such shenanigans including selling Companion passes.
FAB
I feel like the guy who was cutting out of work 10 minutes early and thinking he's getting away with something, and then finding out there are a ton of people who are leaving 3 hours early almost every day.
I think you're correct about this.
And yes, Darryl was surprisingly ignorant of everything regarding the Seven Stars room comp. I was quite surprised that he described the 2018 program as very similar to the 2017 program!
Anyway, I made two phone calls tonight to the CCS (800 number, formerly used to book the Seven Stars comp reservations).
The first rep told me that she had a note on her computer indicating that "the Seven Stars comp situation has not been decided yet", and informed employees to stand by for further information. When I asked her the date of that note, she either wouldn't tell me or repeatedly feigned confusion. "It's just a note," she kept repeating. But she did insist that she was told that they were still deciding upon this, and may indeed bring back this benefit before the change takes place on February 1.
I called a second time and got a different rep. He told me that the change "is set in stone for a few months, but they indicated they might reverse it if there is the demand". So his version is that they're definitely trying this out for a few months, but might go back to the guaranteed Seven Stars room comp if there's enough people pissed off about it.
I tend to believe the second person more, as it makes sense. Perhaps that's the reason Caesars is being so cagey about the whole thing. They don't want to directly announce the end of the room comp, but rather quietly remove it and see if it's just the APs and comp whores who end up getting angry over it. Maybe the plan is to reverse this decision if desired players are bitching to their hosts.
I guess we'll have to see.
Any current Seven Stars who qualified in 2017, you have up to 10 nights you can book through Diamond Aspirations:
- Your Aspirations 2 trip (4 nights + $750 airfare)
- Your Aspirations 1 4-night stay
- Your Aspirations 2 suite stay for 2 nights
You can do these stays up through June 30, but you must book them by January 31, so make sure you get them booked.
Looks like Caesars is getting just what it wanted! I can't muster any grief over this.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
By "obstacles" do you mean charging 1000 RCs for entry to the DL ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
I'm sticking with what I was told by Vegas hosts: hosts will comp their players' rooms.
Yep. At least for lower DiamondsQuote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyBy "obstacles" do you mean charging 1000 RCs for entry to the DL ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
I did "Diamond in a day" this past summer. I thought my status would revert back to Gold on January 1, 2018 but when I go on the Total Rewards website, it says I have Diamond status until January 2019. Is this a mistake, or does Diamond last more than a year now?
Not a mistake.
All statuses last until January 31, two calendar years from when you earned them.
So 1/31/19 is correct for all statuses earned in 2017.
Of course they will comp rooms for “players.” They won’t comp rooms for comp whores, though, and it remains to be seen if the Seven Stars guaranteed comp room will remain available systemwide for overcomped players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Thanks Dan! Except with the downgrades to Diamond, I don't know how valuable the status is anymore. No more Diamond Lounge access? That sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Gotta love the "new" Seven Stars.
So I was e-mailing back and forth with my host, who is a nice, older lady. Doesn't treat me like a bother like other hosts do, but of course since she's a CET host, her power is still limited. She's also sometimes a bit confused at times, maybe because of her age.
Here's how our exchange went....
Me: I know about the changes to the Seven Stars benefit, but I need a lot of nights in June. Could you look up which nights you could comp me, and let me know?
Her: I can't do a bunch of consecutive nights for you in June, sorry.
Me: I wasn't asking for consecutive nights. Just any nights you could comp, could you list them to me, and I will choose them? It's fine if there is a break in between them.
Her: Okay, I can do June 3-8.
Me: Any other dates in June or early July? I may not need June 3-8.
Her: Check your offers, and call the 800 number, and see what they can book for you.
Me: No, I know how to book offers, and in fact I don't like to bother you with offer bookings, since I can do those myself. I'm asking if there's any non-offer bookings in June or early July you can do comp?
Her: Sorry, you are already maxed out on comp June bookings. Here is what you've booked: (She lists 4 stays -- two of which I'm PAYING for, and two which are comped through offers.)
Me: No, those were either paid stays or offer stays. You offered June 3-8. Can I cancel all of those bookings, and you just book me June 3-8?
Her: No, they said you don't qualify for any comps based upon your play. Sorry.
????????????????????????????????????????
I gave up.
You have until March 31 to access the Diamond lounge if you earned Diamond but fewer than 25k tiers in 2017 or 2018.Quote:
Originally Posted by a2a3dseddieThanks Dan! Except with the downgrades to Diamond, I don't know how valuable the status is anymore. No more Diamond Lounge access? That sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
After that, you need to either have 25k tiers in 2017, or a complicated formula of tiers earned in 2018.
The 'My TR' page on totalrewards.com just made a change.
See if you can spot the difference!
Old is on the left, new is on the right.
Hi Dan:
One does not have to play “Where’s Waldo “ to see that complimentary stays have been deleted. I wonder what their actual practice will be come Feb 1.
FAB, I can guarantee you that, come Feb 1, the comp stays for Seven Stars will be gone (except for those who have earned them through play, which doesn't require being Seven Stars!)
I can tell you this because it's January 29, and the internal code for Seven Stars comp bookings has NOT been generated, and employees have been informed that it will not be.
The "best news" I have heard thus far is the claim (from one rep) that this is experimental. If enough valued customers complain (and I mean valued customers, not comp whores), they will consider putting the benefit back.
This is why it's important to let your host know (politely) that you are unhappy about this loss of benefit, and that you feel the main advantage of the Seven Stars program over other programs is gone.
I'm addressing the above to everyone, not just FAB.
However, if you're a comp whore, you're probably better off NOT complaining, because you don't want to help give the impression to Caesars that it's only comp whores who are unhappy with this.
If you're just a regular player who casually gambles at CET, and you're Seven Stars, I urge you to contact your host and gently lament the loss of this benefit.
The problem still is, if you are a regular player who casually gambles at CZR and you’re Seven Stars, odds are this won’t affect you. Those players probably have a high enough ADT that this isn’t an issue. They will continue to get comp rooms like always and never notice the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Sadly it will do exactly what CZR expects it to do, eliminate what they consider comp abuse by players they feel they don’t need.
I have a suggestion. To me it seems eminently logical.
Let's eliminate phrases like "comp abuse" or "abusing their comps."
I don't think such things exist.
If a system supports particular strategies for earning comps, there are always going to be people who optimize their returns. "Comp abuse" or "abusing comps" sounds like a casino-framed jargon designed to suggest that the people who optimize are doing something wrong. They are not. And since comps don't have nerve endings, they really cannot be abused. So why use this kind of weird lingo?
You don't find the phrase "player abuse" in common casino phraseology, and certainly it should be. Players whose judgement or discipline is undeveloped, or who are addicted to whatever degree, and who spend a disproportionate amount on the "fun and recreation" of casino gaming are not referred to as "abused" by the casinos. Yet certainly "player abuse" is more accurate than "comp abuse."
I'd stick to "comp optimizer." "Comp abuse" could easily slide into that strange inaccurate gray zone in common parlance currently occupied by "card counter." Casinos have somehow made "card counter" connotatively negative. More people think it's illegal than legal. That's no accident.
So the next time someone mentions a person "abusing their comps," stop them and ask, "You mean optimizing their comps?"
Language is everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The BozThe problem still is, if you are a regular player who casually gambles at CZR and you’re Seven Stars, odds are this won’t affect you. Those players probably have a high enough ADT that this isn’t an issue. They will continue to get comp rooms like always and never notice the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Sadly it will do exactly what CZR expects it to do, eliminate what they consider comp abuse by players they feel they don’t need.
I understand what you're saying, but this isn't completely accurate.
For regular, active, high and middle-high-limit players, you're correct that they will continue to get comped.
For comp whores, you're correct that they will no longer get comped, which is what CET wants.
However, many Seven Stars fall into that middle ground -- casual players who don't gamble every trip, and stick to low house edge VP machines when they do gamble.
These players will also be affected, even if they aren't trying to comp whore or milk the system. This will especially be true for high-priced periods such as New Years, certain conventions, Thanksgiving, etc.
This is why Caesars is making a big mistake by this blanket "no more Seven Stars getting comped" policy. They are going to piss off some casual gamblers who should otherwise be worth money to them.
Druff--My hi roller days are long behind me now and I barely make Diamond anymore, and that is basically in one weekend in Vegas every year. I probably won't even make Diamond this years as I didn't qualify for the NHC so I wont be in Vegas for that one weekend. But between e-mail and mailers, I get at least 5 different offers every day for 3-5 nights at the various caesars properties.
I assume 7 star are getting these, and better offers. So is it really going to impact that many people? Or am I wrong and 7 stars are not getting these kinds of offers if they have otherwise hit them pretty hard on other benefits.
Dan, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. I do believe CZR doesn’t provide much incentive to become 7 Stars for the player compared to Diamond. But I don’t believe there are many people who fail into the group you list above who are casual 7 Star players that will not get rooms. Even one trip without much play should not hurt someone who plays regularly.
Do you feel there are many 7 Star players who only play low HA VP that CZR cares about? I don’t and still believe they feel they are losing money on these customers with comps added in.
In any change there will also be a few who fall between the cracks but this change will overall do exactly what they wanted it to do and will not hurt their bottom line at all. Which is their obligation to their shareholders period.
Time will tell who is right but for once I agree with Alan, this isn’t a big deal at all for the players Caesar’s wants. And I believe if you took your situation out of it, and looked at it as a continuation of how the comp game has changed over the years, you would see it as well.
Is today the last day for 1.25 to 1 conversion for sevenstars, or was it december 31st? Thanks for help.
Today is the last day.
Ty Druff. You are the best. Big fan.
LOL
So it's February 1, and they still have the 2017 program details up there. Only one quick blurb about how the 2018 benefits e-book is coming soon.
It also still states the Complimentary Rooms are a benefit. Uh huh.
What a fail.
Darryl from Seven Stars Insider has now changed his tune.
In reference to the elimination of the comp room benefit and the degradation of the RC-to-freeplay exchange rate, he wrote, "These first two changes mean that Seven Stars cardholders are being treated no differently
than entry-level Gold cardholders."
That's a far cry form his initial position that it's no big deal, and that 95% of Seven Stars won't be affected.
I think you underestimate the number of casual players at Caesars who know that the magic number is 150k tier credits, and they seriously ramp down their play once they reach it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
Even Alan has discussed doing this before (though he sometimes can't help himself and keeps coming back!)
Others WILL qualify for ongoing free rooms, but will be angered by the loss of that guarantee. One guy was interacting with me on Twitter who felt exactly that way. He was a slots player and not at all a comp whore, but he said that he wasn't going to continue giving Caesars his action if he had no guarantee that these comps would be there for him.
2018 Rules and Regulations for Seven Stars is out now: https://www.caesars.com/content/cet-...ules-2018.html
As expected, there is nothing mentioned about the complimentary room, as it's gone.
Also missing (as expected) are references to the 1.25:1 RC exchange rate (gone), as well as Diamond Aspirations (gone).
Regarding the Seven Stars/Diamond Lounges, members may bring up to 3 guests, but a person with a companion card cannot bring any guests.
Signature event is only Las Vegas or Atlantic City, as expected, unless you have 500k tiers.
And while this is NOT in the rules, they added something to the TR benefits page, claiming that Diamonds and Seven Stars get 15% off "best advertised rates": https://www.caesars.com/total-rewards/benefits-overview
So Seven Stars went from 100% off to 15% off room rates.
No big deal.
LOL
I still wonder how many people care about the changes when you see scores like were posted from the Leaderboard contest. Time will tell if it hurts their overall numbers but I agree there is little incentive to become 7 Star anymore. For years ADT has been far more important than your Tier when it came to offers and value to them. This just takes that to another level. Diamond's who only visit a few times a year will be treated much better than the weekly 7 Star, but that has been the case in AC for years.
I still believe their goal was to eliminate what they consider "optimizing comps" as RE calls it. Now the question will be did they go to far? But this trend is nothing new in the CZR world and the sheep keep coming in the doors.
I lump sports fans in with gamblers as far as their ability to take whatever is given to them because they need their "fix".....and "the man" knows it.
For example, you used to be able to set your watch to 2 hours if you were to watch a NHL or NBA game. Now it could be 2.5 hours or more. You dont get an extra 30 min of entertainment. You get 30 min more of commercials. But no one complains, or hits the leagues and advertisers where it counts...in the pocketbook. So it continues. The extra 30 min didnt occur overnight. It crept up on you..little by little. But sports viewers need their fix. In baseball people are complaining that the games are too long....and they talk about a pitch clock....but of course no one is talking about shortening the time between innings..because thats prime commercial time.
So casinos know that gamblers are like sports fans. They will continue to reduce benerfits little by little just like sports leagues increased intrusive commercials little by little. Yes in all cases it makes their product less enjoyable.....but we all know from history that gamblers and sports fans dont care if u make the product less enjoyable.....just give them the product and they are happy.
The only time that the fans revolted and maybe caused some heads to look up at them was when MLB had a shortened season due to a strike/lockout. So if you take the game totally away....fans may stop coming to the ballbark when you reopen. But if you reduce the quality but keep the doors open...then the sheep keep coming. without complaint
Just face it....the only way that the reduction in benefits for 7 stars and the like at other casinos would be reversed partially or fully.....is for a massive consumer action by the patrons. Thats what corporate america understands. They dont jump to sporadic consumer phone calls or emails that complain. They dont jump to threats like.."if these reductions continue I am going to take my business elsewhere". Because they know that "elsewhere" is doing the same thing. They know that you probably originally came from "elsewhere" to begin with.
Larry, I agree with all of this EXCEPT in this case.
Why?
Because I was actually told by an employee at the Caesars call center that they were "still evaluating" the situation, and might change it back if players were unhappy. And this wasn't one of those canned excuses which employees were given to hand out to customers. I slowly dragged it out of the guy, and he reluctantly told me this.
It also makes sense.
This is a major degradation of 7 Stars, but they didn't publicize it, and are hoping people don't notice (aside from the comp whores).
So during this experimental phase, if they get word that a lot of decent-ADT Seven Stars are unhappy, they may reverse it. Otherwise, they won't.
I'm actually surprised it took this long for them to finally make this change, given that, as Boz said, they have long valued ADT over tier.
I'm already impacted. I'm trying to book New Orleans in March and can't get a comped room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Njdiceplayer are you Seven Stars? If so did you complain to your host about this and see what happens
I am a 7*. My host is in Atlantic City. Not sure what she would be able to do on an New Orleans booking.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
This is a major degradation of 7 Stars, but they didn't publicize it, and are hoping people don't notice (aside from the comp whores).""per Dan
(I boldened the words)
do you really think that they would make a MAJOR cahnge, and yet even consider that most people wont notice?(outside of comp whores)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
edit addition: it seems they are pretty brazen in their actions and are ready for complaints. And I am sure the hosts have been given a script or guidelines to use to calm people down in order to keep people from making rash decisions. So the hosts are giving out "hope"....ok. Did u expect them to say,"well thats the way it is sotheres the door if u dont like it"
If they change it back, it would mean that they crunched the numbers and they are losing more money than they are "saving".Its as simple as that. It wont have anything to do with the number of complaints. It will have to do with the "numbers". It will have to do with people actually walking. But complaints are a dime a dozen. The real drivers for change are not complaints but actions
The Seven Stars complimentary room change is so drastic. From always a room to none guaranteed as of 2018. You would think they would use a middle ground like 10 guaranteed nights a year down from unlimited in 2017.
Confirmed. Asked AC host for a room next weekend (holiday weekend) and he just quoted me the rate calendar. Almost $200 for one night. Not even a dollar off what I could get booking on the website. I did register a complaint, and he says he will forward it to management.
I'm over 30,000 TCs on the year, and can't get a free room. Guess it's time to start learning what else is out there.
I am not a CET player or fan. I don't know much about CET's current finances. I will, however, say this. I saw something sports betting-wise this week that I have never seen from a major sports book involving a major sport, and it suggests CET is either incredibly paranoid or under tremendous financial duress. So I ask you folks who know the company:
Are things so bad for CET that this drastic change in benefits is a prelude to a near-term crash-and-burn or dismantling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by njdiceplayer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarpie
Funny, I was just debating this with my radio co-host last night.
He felt that it was unlikely many non-comp-whores would be affected.
I told him that he was underestimating this, and Seven Stars players would start running into a lot of rates for rooms, especially on high-traffic dates.
Here we already have two people affected reading this thread, and I haven't seen either of you posting about being comp whores before.
I think CET is really shooting themselves in the food.
Great minds think alike! This is exactly what I suggested on my radio show last night -- that they should have either blacked out popular dates, or given a hard cap for number of comp rooms which could be redeemed with this benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
Instead, they went from a situation where you could get 242 comped nights per year if you wanted (using the 4 on/2 off pattern) all the way down to zero, with nothing in between.
Typical.
Care to share more about exactly what it was that you saw? I understand of course if you can’t...Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Well, at the expense of any potential for having a genius moniker, I was dead wrong. I couldn't understand how CET could not allow wagering on the Celtics in NBA futures, while using a convoluted formula to allow NBA futures betting in general. It turned out (my compadres informed me that night) that it was because CET has, for the last four years or so, owned a piece of the Celtics, which precludes Celtics betting.Quote:
Originally Posted by acescracked_1210Care to share more about exactly what it was that you saw? I understand of course if you can’t...Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
What confused me was that in the previous situation similar to this, which was the Maloofs owning the Kings, no NBA futures of any kind were taken by the Palms. When I had asked, I had simply been told by the Palms that the lack of NBA futures was "because of Kings ownership." It didn't even occur to me that (1) possibly the Palms by choice just decided to not take NBA futures, not that they had to skip them or that (2) the rules had changed since the Palms/Kings scenario.
So when I saw the "no Celtics" lines at CET without a footnote explanation, I was flummoxed. My only conclusion was that they had somehow taken so much on the Celtics (not unlikely) that they had simply decided to not take any more. I couldn't really believe that, so I asked if CET was under any immediate financial duress that might trigger such a move.
It tells you how little attention I pay to NBA (and how little I bet at CET) that I hadn't seen this before.
So, in summary, I was in the dark as to why no Celtics was allowed and couldn't figure it out since I was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that the Maloofs could not offer Kings futures because of ownership.
Laughlin, nevada gives 1:1 conversion rate at shell station across the street. Watch out though they are only open from 7am-7pm.