skyscanner, perhaps you could e-mail that guy Matthew and ask him about the paytables on the multiplay machines in $1 mode?
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skyscanner, perhaps you could e-mail that guy Matthew and ask him about the paytables on the multiplay machines in $1 mode?
According to VPfree2 the best payout machines are 25$/TP (and I have found this to be pretty accurate info). Where do you get your info that they are ALL 10$/TP?Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscanner
If they are very poor payout machines then there is really no use in playing even for 25x TP I don't think. Because of the 25x it would still be worthwhile playing the better payout machines that give 25$/TP because you will still earn more TP than if you played the standard 10$/TP machine at 1x TP. I only need 3900 TP to reach 7* since I already have over 50K TP.
I can confirm all of this. I was Seven Stars for several years, earning it every year as opposed to every other year like some. I did not earn it in 2017. I only had one early year Vegas trip, my travels did not take me to any other CET markets, and the Mandalay Bay shooting incident made me leery of traveling to Vegas and I ended up not even using my 2017 airfare and folio credit. I'm Diamond in 2018 just from the one Vegas trip last year, but YTD I haven't been in any CET casino anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Despite all of this, my Vegas offers remain the same as they had been. The offer I just got for Jan-Feb 2019 is the same FP$ value and room nights as the offers I've gotten since that last 2017 trip, and the same $FP as the offer I went on for my 2017 trip.
Now booking it - I don't know as I haven't tried. I haven't ever had luck booking the FP offers myself online and always had to have a host to do it. I did go in and look and it doesn't appear that I have the abundance of free rooms available on the calendar that I used to ( i was able to book rooms myself but rooms with FP offers I could never get to work), so short of calling a host I can't tell if being able to take advantage of an offer has changed.
And getting the airfare and folio isn't seamless. Dan has/had directions on here on how to do it without a host. I always used a host, and even with the very competent one I used to have (he left CET) it was a PITA getting the airfare booked, and almost every folio had some issue or another that required him to intervene. With the next host that did my last trip it was even worse. I know there were changes last year in how they administer those awards (something with FP reimbursement if you pay your own airfare), that may make things easier.
The $500 in vouchers was easy. Line cutting for Seven Stars vs. Diamonds was only better during really busy times like the holidays. Exceptions and small favors - they still look at your play there where you are, they might be more polite giving you the brushoff if you're Seven Stars vs a lower level, but unless you have established some play at that location it doesn't get you much.
So unless you frequent some place with an exclusive Seven Stars lounge, and think you can gain back some value from milking the hell out of that benefit, there's not much else to make it worth it in and of itself.
I do have very specific reasons to go for 7*. See below:
So as you can see most of my experience is watching my mom do this for years. For me that's part of the benefit - I can go on the free cruises with my parents (which I do sometimes anyway but I pay for it). We would be happy with the annual trip and the places we can go. And the food perks are huge for us - I think we can save about half of our annual food costs because we already eat out all the time so this is just shifting where we eat out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Even without the 25x offer I figure I only have to play 10X a year at 5000 TC a time to make 7* (because of the 10,000 TC bonus for every 5000 in a day). At my rate of play it takes me about 3.5 hours to play 5000 credits ($5 full pay Aces Faces) - I did this twice in the last 30 days. If I play on Thursdays at Rincon I get 5X multiplier on RC - an additional $250/session that can be used on things like massages which I pay for now. This also doesn't count any additional comp I may get (I am already being offered free weekly gifts and will likely get the monthly coupon book and whatever that offers me.
In a different post above you have calculated the most that you could lose playing VP to get 7* but there is a range and you haven't shown that - only the most you could lose. I am a glass half full sort of gal and I don't believe I will be at max loss over time. I have already accumulated over 50,000 TC is a very short time and it cost me $800. I have hit multiple quads including Aces once already (400 credits on Aces Faces machine) - that helps keep me in the play too. Since I am a scientist I plan to carefully track everything for 2019 and see how it comes out money-wise. I guess if I am ahead due to comps etc. and have enough points to stay in 7* ever year that would make me an AP?! :-)
If I were you I would pursue this also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56
I think Dan's thoughts were aimed more toward people that don't play CET at all or much and who may think that being Seven Stars is going to unlock a whole lot of benefits that they can milk without further play.
As someone who is actively playing at CET, who understands the system at the casino they already play at, and who knows that they can get free things that they would otherwise be paying for, it makes sense.
But do understand, just because your mother gets offers does not mean you will necessarily get the same thing. Whether she knows about MDV/ADT or not, the casino knows. And even if there's some standard of offers for Seven Stars at Rincon, like any casino offer that is habit and not a written benefit those can change at any time in the future. Even the written ones do.
I agree with this assessment for the most part, but I do have to correct you on one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pkspins
You said that the small favors and exceptions won't be done for you, even as a Seven Stars, unless you are playng actively at that casino.
That's false.
One advantage of CET's poor synergy/communications between departments is that the hotel side has very little access to your play history, at most properties.
They just see your tier level.
So if you have an issue with hotels or restaurants, you simply need to get a manager, remind them that you're a Seven Stars, and then ask for the favor/exception you're looking for. They will usually verify you are Seven Stars by briefly looking at your card, and then will often grant your request as long as it's small and reasonable.
These managers do not have access to look up your play.
Here's a few examples off the top of my head:
- One year on New Year's Eve, we went to a restaurant and were all too full for dessert, so we took it back to the room, with the plan to eat it right after the clock struck midnight. I called Room Service at Caesars and asked for some empty plates.. They informed me, "We charge a $12 plateage fee." Plateage?? LOL!! I told them, "I'm a Seven Stars member, and I don't want to pay for empty plates." They consulted with a manager and waived the plateage fee.
- Also at Caesars, their pizza-by-the-slice place sold slices for like $7 and whole pizzas for $26. Each pizza was 6 slices, so obviously the whole pizza was the much better deal if you were going to eat all or most of it. I told them I wanted to buy the whole pepperoni pizza I saw sitting out. I was quoted 25 minutes wait. There was nobody else in line, and nobody else waiting for food. I asked ,"Why 25 minutes? Can't I just have that pizza?" They told me that whole pizzas had to be made on the spot, because buying a whole pizza leaves other guests unable to buy slices. I said, "But there's no other guests in line!", but the woman at the counter didn't care. I then asked, "So if I want to buy 6 slices for $42, can I have the whole pizza now?" She said yes! So I responded, "Aha! So this isn't about preserving slices for other guests! It's about money! I am Seven Stars and want this policy waived. I want that whole pizza right now for the whole pizza price." She called her manager, informed him I was Seven Stars, and they made the exception for me.
I've had a lot of other stories like this over the years.
I also use my Seven Stars status to block off rooms when I'm coming in late, rather than having to select what's left of the crappy inventory late at night. Usually this can't be done, but they make exceptions for Seven Stars who request this with the right people.
So yes, I will miss these little perks (especially the room block off thing), and I'm considering attempting to re-earn Seven Stars if I can do it cheaply.
I'm glad you've run well at the Rincon this year. However, you've been much luckier than average to have only lost $800 after $50k coin-in at Aces and Faces WITHOUT hitting a royal! For example, if you run 15,000 base tier credits and earn the maximum bonus (30,000 tiers) by doing it optimally, you would still lose on average $4,095 at Aces and Faces if you don't hit any royals! It sounds like you've actually run more play than that, because you have "over 50k tiers", and doing it optimally would leave you with either 45k or 52500 tiers. So being down $800 at this point is great!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56I do have very specific reasons to go for 7*. See below:
So as you can see most of my experience is watching my mom do this for years. For me that's part of the benefit - I can go on the free cruises with my parents (which I do sometimes anyway but I pay for it). We would be happy with the annual trip and the places we can go. And the food perks are huge for us - I think we can save about half of our annual food costs because we already eat out all the time so this is just shifting where we eat out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Even without the 25x offer I figure I only have to play 10X a year at 5000 TC a time to make 7* (because of the 10,000 TC bonus for every 5000 in a day). At my rate of play it takes me about 3.5 hours to play 5000 credits ($5 full pay Aces Faces) - I did this twice in the last 30 days. If I play on Thursdays at Rincon I get 5X multiplier on RC - an additional $250/session that can be used on things like massages which I pay for now. This also doesn't count any additional comp I may get (I am already being offered free weekly gifts and will likely get the monthly coupon book and whatever that offers me.
In a different post above you have calculated the most that you could lose playing VP to get 7* but there is a range and you haven't shown that - only the most you could lose. I am a glass half full sort of gal and I don't believe I will be at max loss over time. I have already accumulated over 50,000 TC is a very short time and it cost me $800. I have hit multiple quads including Aces once already (400 credits on Aces Faces machine) - that helps keep me in the play too. Since I am a scientist I plan to carefully track everything for 2019 and see how it comes out money-wise. I guess if I am ahead due to comps etc. and have enough points to stay in 7* ever year that would make me an AP?! :-)
However, you can't expect it to necessarily continue that way.
Anyway, I see you're utilizing the Seven Stars benefits, which is good, and it probably is worth it for you to pursue the Ak-Chin thing, since your play is consistent enough already to where you likely won't be seen as a bonus whore.
One note about the cruise: They are not free! You are NOT just paying port fees and taxes! That's a lie that CET/NCL likes to tell people. You're paying port fees, taxes, AND a small amount of fare ($140 per person), which is disguised as an "Admin Fee". You are also paying $14/day per person "gratuities" which aren't really gratuities, and NCL keeps. So that's another $98/person. Also, your itinerary is somewhat limited, as there are a few blackout dates, and you are not allowed to use it for Europe, Cuba, and a few other places. Don't get me wrong... I used it every year from 2013-2017. This year I didn't use it due to unexpected health issues which started in August. It can be great value, but it's not as "free" as most think it is!
Here's some info about the cruise benefit I wrote (and NCL in general), which may be helpful to you: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...or-Seven-Stars
I haven't had any issues like yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
But it did remind me that on several occasions at several CET locations, I had room service orders while Seven Stars that were "our wait right now is (insert long time here) but since you're Seven Stars we'll put it to the front and it'll be there shortly".
That was a very handy perk I will miss.
I even heard about this promotion on a local radio station last night during "rush hour". So your concerns are spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Regarding "decent" and/or "semi-decent" machines: since when are any of those pay tables of any interest to an AP? Especially for play during a nebulous promotion with uncertain final benefits that you can theoretically expect to lose much more money than the trip andplay are worth?
You'd fare FAR BETTER, theoretically of course, travelling to the Aquarius in Laughing andplay their $25 9/6 ddbp machines.
Playing for points, tier credits, and card level status is a major mistake VP players from all walks routinely make. Play only for the money and you'll find success and happiness.
I did e-mail him back as soon as I read his message, as it was not complete and I had asked for some more information in the first place. However, I have not heard from him since. Maybe, as you said before, they are not allowed to reveal that much information to the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
In October I was at Ak-Chin at a breakfast place with my son. I asked how long was the wait for a table? The response was "15-10 minutes." I then asked, (holding my Seven Stars card) how long the wait was since I was Seven Stars? The response was: "in that case, I have a table open for you" and she reached over for menus and led us off. My son was impressed and told me so, something not many 23 year olds tell their dads.Quote:
Originally Posted by pkspinsI haven't had any issues like yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
But it did remind me that on several occasions at several CET locations, I had room service orders while Seven Stars that were "our wait right now is (insert long time here) but since you're Seven Stars we'll put it to the front and it'll be there shortly".
That was a very handy perk I will miss.
FAB
I would pass on the conspiracy theories here. Frankly I can fully understand how requests like this get put into the "to do folder" but never get done because new "to dos" get piled on top. Getting info on paytables is really a request out of deep, deep center field for casinos.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscannerI did e-mail him back as soon as I read his message, as it was not complete and I had asked for some more information in the first place. However, I have not heard from him since. Maybe, as you said before, they are not allowed to reveal that much information to the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
My favorite story goes like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonteIn October I was at Ak-Chin at a breakfast place with my son. I asked how long was the wait for a table? The response was "15-10 minutes." I then asked, (holding my Seven Stars card) how long the wait was since I was Seven Stars? The response was: "in that case, I have a table open for you" and she reached over for menus and led us off. My son was impressed and told me so, something not many 23 year olds tell their dads.Quote:
Originally Posted by pkspinsI haven't had any issues like yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
But it did remind me that on several occasions at several CET locations, I had room service orders while Seven Stars that were "our wait right now is (insert long time here) but since you're Seven Stars we'll put it to the front and it'll be there shortly".
That was a very handy perk I will miss.
FAB
I was at Nero's, the restaurant before Old Homestead, waiting for my table. I was Seven Stars. A guy walks up to the hostess stand and asks for a table. The hostess says "do you have a reservation?" The guy says "no, but I'm Seven Stars."
The hostess replies, "I'm sorry, I have no openings."
"But I'm Seven Stars!" And with that he turns to me and says "I'm Seven Stars and there's never a problem in Atlantic City."
So... I show him my Seven Stars card and I say, "but this is Caesars Palace where just about everyone is Seven Stars."
It's more like none of those people could care less about putting in the leg work to check on multi-play pay tables for someone on the phone. That's not what they're there for. AK chin is a very busy casino day and night. Even face-to-face you'll be lucky to get an "engaged" employee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonI would pass on the conspiracy theories here. Frankly I can fully understand how requests like this get put into the "to do folder" but never get done because new "to dos" get piled on top. Getting info on paytables is really a request out of deep, deep center field for casinos.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscannerI did e-mail him back as soon as I read his message, as it was not complete and I had asked for some more information in the first place. However, I have not heard from him since. Maybe, as you said before, they are not allowed to reveal that much information to the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Alan may actually have a point.
Perhaps they are just getting swamped with paytable/machine requests, and they are either overwhelmed or made a decision to stop answering them.
Just googled around for discussion of this promo.
The other forums discussing this are amazingly clueless. Lots of incorrect info and confusion everywhere. This thread is far superior and more informative than everywhere else, by a wide margin. Those other threads were of zero help, even though I read threads about this on 3 other forums.
Guess we're on our own here.
I like that story. My kids were oblivious to everything except for walking by everyone in the main line to use the Seven Stars line at the Caesars buffet. I think that mildly impressed them. But whenever I went with them anywhere I always planned everything out with reservations or my usual avoid line strategies that I use everywhere else (like eating early). The only time I thought there wouldn't be a line was that Gordon Ramsey burger place at I think it was Planet Hollywood that had Burger spelled weird. There was a 45 minute wait that was the same for everyone - got no Seven Stars favor there.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonteIn October I was at Ak-Chin at a breakfast place with my son. I asked how long was the wait for a table? The response was "15-10 minutes." I then asked, (holding my Seven Stars card) how long the wait was since I was Seven Stars? The response was: "in that case, I have a table open for you" and she reached over for menus and led us off. My son was impressed and told me so, something not many 23 year olds tell their dads.Quote:
Originally Posted by pkspinsI haven't had any issues like yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
But it did remind me that on several occasions at several CET locations, I had room service orders while Seven Stars that were "our wait right now is (insert long time here) but since you're Seven Stars we'll put it to the front and it'll be there shortly".
That was a very handy perk I will miss.
FAB
I agree! I did the same and this is by far the best thread on the topic! I’ll let them remain self delusional while I grab a good machine and hunker and do the work! Haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
So aside from Slyfox56, who is planning upon doing this?
A reply from good old Matthew.
I talked to a very friendly host at my dominant property (Rio) yesterday. I was told that it is our very own Mr Kent Houston who decides about the 7* invitations. He can be reached at 702-777-7820. I left him a voice message, but I do not expect a reply from him until well after the 27th.
I went to the TR desk today and talked to the supervisor who referred me to another host. The nice man said that in his opinion, reaching 150,000 TPs is the main criterion to be approved for 7* and that in his experience, he has not seen anyone being denied it. I stressed that I had not played much this year and that my 35K TPs come mostly from hospitality spend and promotions. The host said that even if you get denied 7*, you may still have a way to appeal it. He then went back towards the VIP area, while I stayed at the TR desk and asked about our 5X promotion for LV locals (but capped at 25K). On the way back to the casino floor, I overheard the same host and the same TR supervisor saying "That is not going to work, but I could not tell him this".
This basically confirms what Dan was saying about people with little play this year not being able to reach 7* via the Ak-Chin promotion. I wish they were more frank about it.
On the other hand, the Orleans is having a very nice promotion, they are giving you between 10-50$ in free play each day, just for slecting a cute penguin when you swipe your card at one of their kiosks. And they are also giving away a breakfast buffet if you earn 1 TC that day, a lunch buffet if you earn 2TCs, and a dinner buffet if you earn 3TCs. Won 10$ in free play and turned that into 5$ in cash and a really nice dinner.
I feel so sorry about the Rio, it was branded as the locals' casino for so many years, and now the shuttles are gone and they only have the dinner buffet during the week. It is no longer attracting the crowds.
So Kent Houston is at the Rio. Interesting.
Here's his linkedin, if anyone cares: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kent-houston-40b9b88
If Rio is your dominant property, you can pretty much forget getting upgraded to 7* through this Ak-Chin promo, given that we have evidence of Kent Houston already denying someone earlier this year.
skyscanner, I assume you're not going because of this?
I think too many people are going to use this to earn Seven Stars, and that's going to cause Caesars to watch closely for this and deny everyone who primarily earned it this way.
Diamond has no approval process, so if you're just looking to earn Diamond, then you can run just 600 base tiers and be done with it. Pretty long trip just to earn Diamond, though, unless you're already in the area.
The more I think about it, the more I think Ak-Chin is expecting people in the area to use it to earn Diamond quickly, which they're totally fine with, since Diamond is pretty much handed out like candy anyway. (You can even get it through various status matches!)
Seven Stars is a different story, and I think this is just too obvious for anyone to really get away with. I think people like slyfox56 have a decent shot, given that they earned a lot of tier credits already the ol' fashioned way. Everyone else earning the vast majority through this... I just am having a hard time picturing Caesars supervisors approving them.
Like, they're gonna see people with just $56,000 coin-in wanting Seven Stars, and I can't see a supervisor saying, "Oh yeah, that looks totally fine", unless he's totally out in space and not really looking at anything closely.
Furthermore, there is some risk involved because:
1) You may have a hard time getting the "good" machines
2) Even something like 9/5 jacks will result in a $2240 average loss if you fail to hit a straight flush or royal flush
3) They may deny your 7* anyway
Honestly, this is looking less and less appealing.
Unfortunately we're not going to know anything until February 2019 when we find out if anyone who scored 150,000 tier points thru this promotion was actually denied Seven Stars.
Play this promotion at your own risk. But again, outside of the one example mentioned here I have never heard of anyone being denied Seven Stars unless a serious problem was the cause.
I look forward to seeing the reports in February.
I am confused - why would we need to wait to February to know? Do they typically wait 2 months to let someone know if they are 7*? Also I only need 3900 tier credits to get to 7* with the 25x multiplier so crossing my fingers that will work in my favor since I am going for 2/3 of it rather that the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
If you do make 7* in Dec 2018, do you only have until Jan 31, 2019 to use the $500 in comp credits and the trip (asking because this is what my mom is telling me)?
My “home” casino is Rincon so I am assuming they will be making the decision about me becoming 7* and not Ak-Chin. I have no idea how much discretion each local host manager has in awarding 7*?
The current Seven Stars runs thru the end of January. Sometime in late January you will be notified about the new Seven Stars membership and program rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56I am confused - why would we need to wait to February to know? Do they typically wait 2 months to let someone know if they are 7*? Also I only need 3900 tier credits to get to 7* with the 25x multiplier so crossing my fingers that will work in my favor since I am going for 2/3 of it rather that the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
If you do make 7* in Dec 2018, do you only have until Jan 31, 2019 to use the $500 in comp credits and the trip (asking because this is what my mom is telling me)?
My “home” casino is Rincon so I am assuming they will be making the decision about me becoming 7* and not Ak-Chin. I have no idea how much discretion each local host manager has in awarding 7*?
No you don't have to wait until the end of January to find out if you got it. The end of January when they come out with the new rules for 2019 Seven Stars is when you'll find out what the benefits are that you'll get for next year, which could be the same as 2018's or could be different if they change them.
Once the bonus hits your account and you show 150K+ as your 2018 TC balance then ask Rincon for the upgrade. If you don't have a host ask your mom's to be your host.
When I got mine the first time, which was just with the regular daily bonus, once that daily bonus hit my account my host got the paperwork through and within a few days I had the welcome to Seven Stars email. But mine was weil within the year. If this 25X bonus doesn't get recorded before TR online rolls over to showing 2019 TC balances, then it may be only the casino host that can see your balance.
But yes provided that all works out and you get Seven Stars as a 2018 start date, then you have a free trip that you have to hurry up and get booked and take before 1/31 to use your airfare and your $500 comp credits.
Pkspins have you missed the entire discussion about how Seven Stars might no longer be automatic with 150,000 tier points?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It may not be automatic but she won't have to wait until the end of January to find out.
Per page 4 on here the 25x bonus tier credits count toward 2018. Once those hit her account she can ask the host at her home property, Rincon, where her mother has a long term established relationship with a host, if they can process her upgrade.
At that point she will find out for her if it works or not.
Yes, based on the previous discussion about the email one player received from Kent Houston, 150K TCs and clean markers may not be enough any more.
But she doesn't have to wait until next year's Seven Stars rules come out to have that dialogue with her home property based on her achieving 150K TCs, which is what your post was implying.
On the documentation for reward tier levels they all usually say "invite only" or "if eligible" for the top tier.
You can walk up to a Total Rewards counter and get a Diamond card as soon as you hit the tier, but not for 7* according to the booklets.
MLife is the same with the top tier. Even if you have the points you have to be invited.
At all of the Caesars properties I've ever been to the full pay JoB 9/6 or Bonus 8/5 and similar games all have a special placard on them that states "This machine awards 1 tier credit for every $25 wagered" or something along those lines.
Not getting into proper plays etc, but I've counted over a hundred hands without a full house before on Bonus so the 7/5 paytable would not have bothered me...
The "Seven Stars is invite only" thing has been written in the official documentation for many years, but wasn't known to be enforced until that Kent Houston e-mail was posted this year.
However, now there is a real concern that they will deny some people, both due to that e-mail and the fact that they highly degraded the program in 2018 by taking away the guaranteed comp rooms. It shows they're moving in the direction of eliminating bonus whores.
As I said, unless you have already earned a lot of tiers from normal play this year, I would not suggest trying to upgrade to Seven Stars through this promotion.
You have a better shot in getting your Seven Stars RENEWED this way, but again, if that's your only play in 2018, the odds are against you.
I think anyone who achieves 7 star cardholder status through this Ak Chin promotion will have it honored by CET. I fully expect those who participate and reach the 150,000 tc level will get their 7 star trips, $500 dinners and other various benefits associated with being a 7 star. To not do so would make no sense for CET. Once they achieve 7 star and decide to no play CET on all of their subsequent visits I think they will meet the same fate as DD and not be warmly welcomed with free rooms and other free stuff. In doing this promotion IMO one of the things they are trying to do is create additional 7 star players by giving them a taste of it in hopes that in the following year they will chase an additional 150,000 tier credits. But they want them to play in a controlled by them fashion. That's just the way it is and to not accept is like beating your head against the wall. They still have the best casino rewards program out there that I know of for players like me and my wife that like to travel for free to one of their properties.
I disagree. This isn't a CET-wide promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
It's something Ak-Chin is doing.
I think Ak-Chin is mainly doing this to help people get to Diamond for the first time, which is a status CET gives out freely.
When a bunch of people run up just 5600 base tiers and suddenly want Seven Stars, I have a feeling CET is going to put their foot down and refuse.
I guess we will know shortly. Good luck to all those that are giving it a shot. I think the VP machines with decent paytables are going to be just about impossible to get on. Same way with the most desirable reel machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI disagree. This isn't a CET-wide promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
It's something Ak-Chin is doing.
I think Ak-Chin is mainly doing this to help people get to Diamond for the first time, which is a status CET gives out freely.
When a bunch of people run up just 5600 base tiers and suddenly want Seven Stars, I have a feeling CET is going to put their foot down and refuse.
I was thinking the same way. I don't think a gazillion people will actually go for the 7 stars anyway. But CET won't miss the opportunity to welcome them to the fold in the hopes they keep gambling bigger once started (suckers like me).Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
I will be heading there tomorrow.
Good luck to everyone playing this. In a worst case scenario you might lose $6,000 and find out Caesars is using its ever present "invitation phrase" to deny you Seven Stars.
In a good scenario you might win some money and get Seven Stars.
You'll need to push thru about $56,000 of coin in to find out.
I'm not sure what the minimum bankroll is for getting $56,000 of coin in, but this promotion appears to be your single best shot at getting Seven Stars at the lowest possible cost. So if you really want Seven Stars you MUST take this shot. There are no two ways about it.
If Caesars comes back at you later and says "no invitation" at least you can say you did take your best shot.
That's not how they see Seven Stars, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56I was thinking the same way. I don't think a gazillion people will actually go for the 7 stars anyway. But CET won't miss the opportunity to welcome them to the fold in the hopes they keep gambling bigger once started (suckers like me).Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
I will be heading there tomorrow.
It's not a trick to welcome new gamblers into the fold.
It's meant to be a status in recognition of their best customers.
They have gotten irritated in recent years that people are bonus whoring the Seven Stars, and are now apparently making an effort to refuse to approve Seven Stars who don't have the play they expect for it.
As I said, Slyfox, you have a fair chance because you already earned 50k tier credits the old fashioned way, so they might very well approve you.
Otherwise, existing lower tiers using this promo to earn the vast majority of their tier credits will likely be rejected.
Existing Seven Stars renewing it through this promo are kinda in the middle... I could see it going either way.
This is my first report from Ak-Chin - I’m now here on the ground.
There are NO 9/5 JoB in the casino at any denomination. It now makes sense why the host said that all their VP machines gave 1 TP/$10. All the machines with the best pay tables that were 1 TP/$25 (as listed on VPFREE2) have all been removed from the casino. The best available JoB pay table at any denomination is 8/5 JoB. There are approximately 20 8/5 $5 JoB machines scattered throughout the casino. I did not check DBP or the multi-hand machines as those are too high of variance for me and I don’t play them.
The 25x promotion is not invitation only -just swipe your card and you’re eligible. One odd little wrinkle is that you can start playing at 6AM to start earning the 25x TP but you can only swipe your card starting at 8 AM. I plan to be down in the casino by 7 AM and playing on a 8/5 $5 JoB machine.
It was fairly quiet in the casino tonight and no real buzz about the promotion tomorrow. I talked to a couple of floor people who thought it would be very busy tomorrow. Wish me luck getting on a machine!
One other oddity at least to me as a newer player was there were quite a few 10 credit max VP machines in the casino and I have no idea as to the payout as I didn’t have any way to calculate it or look it up. Something else odd that happened was that I couldn’t get the WoO pay table calculator to work even though I have used it extensively in the past. Maybe it is just not working in general right now?
If there is anything you have a burning desire to know (pays on other machine types etc) let me know.
The 10 credit max bet and higher usually are like that to hide a bad pay table... (or I also think to make it sound like you are winning more when it is an even money win and 10 credits or 100 credits roll up)... 10 credit the royal should say 8000, straight flush 500, full house if it is 8 normally would be 40 for 5 credit and 80 for 10 credit... If it is 70 then it is 7, 60 for 6 etc... If you look at the pay table for 5 coins it should match and just multiply from there... This also helps them with for example a $0.25 machine betting 10 credits is really like a $0.50 machine betting 5.
Me personally, if I had a choice between 8/6 JoB and 7/5 bonus, I'd go for the bonus poker... Not a huge different on the return percentage... If you do hit a 4x23or4 or 4aces it will pay a little more which is nice.
For lower variance find a multi play machine... $1 video poker single line ($5 bet) is going to go faster than a 100 line $0.01 machine ($5 bet).
Thanks for the report, Slyfox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56
I ended up electing not to go, given that it's 450 miles each way for me, plus I was afraid they would not honor a Seven Stars status earned this way, plus I would only get it for one year anyway (as opposed to two if I did so in January!)
Can you find the 99.11% Double Bonus machine for $5? Or is that gone, too?
It's 5:15am right now. I suggest you get there before 6am, or the "good" machines will all be gone. I think 7 is too late. Hopefully you see this in time, as that's only 45 minutes away.
See if you can find decent $1 multiplay machines. That may be your best bet, if the paytables are okay.
Come on DD. You're a gambler. I think it is a pretty safe bet that all that get to 150K will get their 7 star card and all the benefits that come along with it. The not so safe bet is getting a decent machine. I think there will be people camped out well before 6AM for the decent machines or they will be locked down for their top players. Good luck to you Slyfox. This is all a marketing gimmick for CET and I am glad you are taking advantage of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffThanks for the report, Slyfox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56
I ended up electing not to go, given that it's 450 miles each way for me, plus I was afraid they would not honor a Seven Stars status earned this way, plus I would only get it for one year anyway (as opposed to two if I did so in January!)
Can you find the 99.11% Double Bonus machine for $5? Or is that gone, too?
It's 5:15am right now. I suggest you get there before 6am, or the "good" machines will all be gone. I think 7 is too late. Hopefully you see this in time, as that's only 45 minutes away.
See if you can find decent $1 multiplay machines. That may be your best bet, if the paytables are okay.
Second report from Ak-Chin
I got to the machines at about 7 AM. The casino was dead and you could have virtually any machine you wanted. I opted to play a $5 8/5 JoB machine as I didn’t want to deal with the variance. The casino got progressively busier but at any time up to about 3 PM I could have got one of the machines (I quit paying attention after that). I found one other person playing to get to 7* and we sat and played together - he was a younger Asian guy from Vegas and his playing profile was similar to mine up to the event. I walked the casino several times out of curiosity and could find no one playing enough money to make it appear they weere going for 7* (lots were playing 10-25 cents) so I don’t think there were hardly any VP players using the 25X promo to reach 7*. There seemed to be much more buzz about reaching Diamond. There were only 2 machines available to swipe your TR card and an attendant did it for you. Out of pure paranoia I swiped 3 separate times - LOL!
I was able to get all the points I needed by about 11:30 AM. Here is a recap of me getting to 7*:
I had a bank roll of $7500 when I started this adventure a couple of months ago.
At Rincon I earned approx 55000 Tier points (TP) using the TR system to get bonus credits. At RinconI got 4 Aces once on Aces Faces machine and several quads. I was down $1800.
At Ak-Chin I played for the remaining 98000 TP by earning 3800 TP and using 25x multiplier. I got one straight flush and several quads.
So once all was accounted for it cost me $3100 to get to 7* and that doesn’t count the $526 worth of reward credits I earned during the same period.
Now I am going for a steak dinner to celebrate!
Great result, Slyfox.
Honestly, if I knew barely anyone would be going for Seven Stars with this promo, I would have gone. I feared that there would be a huge influx of people using this for easy Seven Stars, and that CET would be watching closely when approving Seven Stars for 2019.
It is possible it will get busy in the evening after locals get home from ork. Or perhaps there were people who didn't stay overnight and drove in from LA or Vegas.
I also would have wanted them to swipe multiple times, just to make sure it "took"!
Looks like you lost $1300 at Ak-Chin, right? That's not bad for $56k coin-in of 8-5 JoB. You ran above expectation for not hitting a royal, which would be about a $2k loss.
Tomorrow you should make sure (after 6am) that all tiers posted, aside from the bonus tiers which may or may not take a few days.
You should have earned 6300 from today's play and the normal bonus.
So your tiers should be something like 61000.
WTG Slyfox. I guess you probably know you get 2 sets of 7 star benefits. You have to complete the first set before the end of Jan 2019 and you have until the end of Jan 2020 for the second set. So if you have the time you get 2 7 star trips, 2 sets of $500 (5x$100) food vouchers, etc... I would get hold of your host ASAP to get the 7 star in place ASAP. Especially if you have time between now and the end of January to take advantage of the first set of benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56
I am surprised there were not more people there to take advantage of this. I think it will turn out to be a legit offer. We have never been to Ak Chin before but I thought it was a property already at least as busy as Rincon but I guess not. Let us know if you have any hassle getting your 7 star card or any of the benefits.
Good job Slyfox. By my calculation you can have a Seven Stars retreat prior to end of Jan 2019. That means you get $1200 in airfare, $500 in resort credits (50,000 in RC in New Orleans) plus $500 in celebration dinner vouchers so about $2,200 in value. Then another round after Jan 2019.
So your guaranteed benefits far out strip the $1,300 you lost at AkChin. That does not even count the heavily discounted NCL Cruise. Also expect some nice AkChin offers soon including MLB spring training invites and NFL games assuming this is your first AkChin action
That’s a good comp gambit
FAB
He only had 38K of coin-in, and he did hit the expected loss. 56K of coin-in was the requirement for someone with a zero Tier Score prior to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Personally, I truly resent Alan Mendelson for calling us "crazy" for thinking we would be able to get a machine during this promo day, when in fact the casino was dead. "The area is full of rich people. All the aerospaceworkers are free on the 27th. The promo was largely advertised on the local radio. Don't go"
Congrats, Slyfox!
It was Rob Singer who said that. I accept your apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyscannerHe only had 38K of coin-in, and he did hit the expected loss. 56K of coin-in was the requirement for someone with a zero Tier Score prior to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Personally, I truly resent Alan Mendelson for calling us "crazy" for thinking we would be able to get a machine during this promo day, when in fact the casino was dead. "The area is full of rich people. All the aerospaceworkers are free on the 27th. The promo was largely advertised on the local radio. Don't go"
Congrats, Slyfox!
I see that skyscanner has already attributed a Rob Singer quote to me so for the record I am copying my position on this promo below.
Quite frankly I'm surprised that Dan passed this up since Seven Stars is so important for him for the free rooms as well as the short buy in lines at the WSOP.
Since I live in Vegas now free rooms are worthless to me and I don't do cruises and I don't travel to casinos around the country. Seven Stars is worthless to me now. Heck, I haven't been to a Caesars property all year nor have I even visited a Diamond Lounge for the free victuals and drinks.
Dan you really surprised me on this. 7/5 Bonus is no worse than what you find at Caesars Palace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Slyfox I am so glad that this worked out for you.
Please come back and update as to when all your points show up and how getting Seven Stars works out.
Like everyone's mentioned, once you get Seven Stars you'll get a trip that you have to use by 1/31/19 so if you haven't already you should start thinking about where you want to go and when as you'll need to get that booked ASAP once your status hits.
As for the crowds - I am surprised and not surprised. On the forums I browse I didn't see much discussion of this except for here. I think that Seven Stars not having the generous room benefits it used to maybe made it less lucrative a play. To the extent I have pursued promotions I have found that popularity is completely unpredictable. I've seen enormous lines all over the casino for token gifts not worth the effort of carrying the item to my car, and then relatively deserted venues for 15x RC multipliers. I'm glad it worked out for you and you were able to play what you planned to and keep your OOP cost relatively low for the amount of play you needed to put in.
She can also exchange that trip for $500 in RCs if she can't use it by January 31. That's always an option.
She should make sure to also use the $500 in food vouchers, which also expire 1/31.
pkspins: The lack of room benefit was what made me skip going. If they still had the guaranteed comp rooms, I would have chanced being rejected and run the promo anyway.
Also Slyfox, the first 7 star trip has to be booked by 12/31 to you don't have much time to get with your powers that be and get that done. Please let us know how this all works out for you.
That's not necessariy true. The 30 day advance notice for booking is BS. I've taken these before with a week's notice or less.Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
Thanks everyone!
Here is the last piece of the adventure:
Less than 24 hours later all bonus points hit my account (~177,000 tier points) - I overshot it a bit hehe! So definitely did not take 3-5 days to get the points.
I went to the TR desk at Ak-Chin and asked for my Seven Stars card. I was told that there was a process and that I had to be approved but they would put in for approval right then. I wasn't sure what that meant and they didn't seem to know what was in the approval process, all they knew at the TR desk was that they has to send a request for approval.
The next day (so less than 48 hours after the promotion ended) both my TR app on my iPhone and the TR website showed me as being Seven Stars. I have not yet been sent a congratulatory e-mail or had a host contact me but my Diamond email took several days to appear and I had already used some of my Diamond benefit. So I would assume that I am now Seven Stars. I am going over to Rincon this afternoon and will meet with a host so I can confirm it and also to talk about some of the benefits. I haven't noticed yet that I have gotten any offers that appear to be any different than what I was getting as a Diamond (but I was only Diamond for 1 month). I just got a Diamond book in the mail for January. So I assume I won't get the Seven Stars book until February?
Dan D said above:That's not necessarily true. The 30 day advance notice for booking is BS. I've taken these before with a week's notice or less.
From what I have read in their literature they "request" 30 days advance notice but they don't say it is mandatory. I will let everyone know what my host says after I meet with him today. I can book by tomorrow if absolutely necessary.
Thanks to everyone here that was so generous with information and responding to all my questions.
I now have some questions about the best way to maintain Seven Stars including money management strategies when gambling but I will start a new thread for that.
Congratulations. If it says Seven Stars on your online profile it means you are Seven Stars. Now, go to a TR desk at any casino and get your Seven Stars card.
Slyfox congrats from me as well. The “offers” do not much change between Being Diamond and Seven Stars. What will be different is the guaranteed benefits like the Annual Retreat. There are a few Seven Stars events and dinners but not that big a deal. That said offers on line and in the mail will go up in a few months due to your increased action.
The best part of skyfox's success is that it may help to dispel the fears and rumors that there is some "secret court" passing judgment on players who have attained 150,000 tier points about their worthiness of being Seven Stars.
I've said all along that the language of "invitation" was nothing but a marketing ploy, and the only persons denied Seven Stars had a big problem with Caesars such as owing markers or having a violent confrontation with a dealer or cheating or stealing. No one really knows what that single email from that host denying Seven Stars was really about.
But with that said, it is absolutely true that the Seven Stars program ain't what she used to be. And pursuing Seven Stars should be carefully considered.
I'm glad that Slyfox was approved, as it seems like she's a nice woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
However she's not a great example as to whether or not one could have earned 7* with that promo because she was already about 35% there before this.
With that said, given the lack of people using the promo to make 7*, it's likely this will fly under the radar for everyone who tried it.
I'm glad she got it also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I think it helped that, at least judging from forum postings, not many people tried this. Also she fit the criteria on that email pasted earlier of steady and increased play by putting in that high TC day for the multiplier, so her case wasn't a test of that.
Without the guaranteed hotel stays, the outlay that Caesars commits to by giving someone Seven Stars is fairly defined cost wise for them and they have much less exposure to exploitation of the benefits than they used to. By giving someone Seven Stars they're just risking that paying for the two trips won't yield much future profit if people just take the trips, use the food coupons and folio benefits and don't spend much else gambling or otherwise. The rest of the stuff washes out in is going to be there anyway (the lounges), you have to go there to get them (the tickets), or doesn't cost them anything directly (line cutting).
I met up with my host at So Cal and the Host Manager and got some other useful tidbits:
It is not required to book the annual retreat by December 31 - this is purely a courtesy. In fact most of my Seven Stars benefits will not "post" to my account until next Thursday. That said, if I were not booking by Dec 31 for some reason I would give my host a heads up as a courtesy.
For the air travel part of the annual retreat you can have them book it or you can book it yourself and be reimbursed. The reimbursement is in free play only. You cannot be reimbursed with cash or reward credits.
I also found out that if you can't go or don't want to go to one the of Signature Events (different from Signature Experience) that you can request $500 in RC instead - so I can do this for 2018. I will likely go to the Atlantic City event in 2019.
A specific perk for So Cal is 2 rounds of free golf a month. I don't golf but the hosts told me I should collect them anyway and give them to family and friends as there is no requirement to show anything to use them.
They also told me that it can take 2-3 months for me to start receiving promos related to me being Seven Stars and for my level of play - they said the system was very slow and always a few months behind.
Something else that is very interesting is that the "daily average" is tracked on a 6 month rolling basis and that it is a true average. They said they have also had numerous conversations with corporate that it is unfair to ding a player that may play big a few times a month and then goes for casual play the rest of the time but they haven't gotten anywhere with that. So if you usually play to a certain level consistently and you have one session where you play for a lot less because you are with friends and family it really shouldn't impact that much because they are using a true average (vs some sort of weighted average or range).
Overall, I felt the hosts wanted me to use as many of the benefits as possible and they would do everything in their power to help me do that including tips and tricks on getting the most out of vouchers, food credits, etc. They thought it was cool that I was able to use the Ak-Chin promo to get to Seven Stars and in a sense "game" the system.
I also discussed the criteria for being invited to Seven Stars. Both of them said it is basically automatic and all that they are checking for before "inviting" someone is that they don't have too much in credit, that there have been no reported security incidents, and that there is no evidence that the person has a gambling problem/addiction (how they determine this one I have no idea). So I think the "invitation only" thing is just so that they can check for those couple of things and that it is not automatically awarded by the computer system.
I showed them the letter that has been circulating on the internet for the denial of Seven Stars. They both were very surprised and said that they had never heard of such a thing and there has been no communication from corporate as to any additional or new criteria for being "invited" to Seven Stars. So my entirely speculative guess is that either the letter is a fake or that the person that received the letter had some real issues/abuses with CET but not enough that CET felt they had to ban them so they added the other reasons to deny this one person Seven Stars. Thus I would chalk this up as a one-off and not a system wide change that CET is making for Seven Stars admittance criteria.
Happy New Year to Everyone! May your next year of gaming be fruitful!
Thank you skyfox for this:
I showed them the letter that has been circulating on the internet for the denial of Seven Stars. They both were very surprised and said that they had never heard of such a thing and there has been no communication from corporate as to any additional or new criteria for being "invited" to Seven Stars. So my entirely speculative guess is that either the letter is a fake or that the person that received the letter had some real issues/abuses with CET but not enough that CET felt they had to ban them so they added the other reasons to deny this one person Seven Stars.
Let us know if you are able to get the $500 RC's if you don't attend one of the signature events. We used to attend every year but the last two years we chose not to go. I think the host may be getting the $500 RC in lieu of the signature event confused with the $500 RC in lieu of 7 star retreat others have mentioned. If you can get the extra RC's in place of the signature event we may be leaving some RC's on the table and that would be good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox56
Yes please let us know about the signature event.
I never go to those and wound love the $500 RCs instead.
I'll bring it up here too.
How many of you Einstein's don't understand how foolish it is to be congratulating some casino addicted pawn like this slyfox lady, just because she LOST $3100 ridiculously trying for CET card status, while losing $1300 of it at the stupid ak-chin "rope-'em-in" promo, playing a dumb JoB game where she was enormously under-bankrolled and had at least a 70% risk of going broke? It's astonishing seeing how you people go from "it's all about the theoretical going into a play" to "you did wonderful!....you only lost $1300 at ak-chin!"
Now I'm sure the excuses about "bbbbut gee Rob, the benefits of being 7-Stars makes up for losing money!" will start up.
And you people like to think you actually TEACH players here anything? Where's butt boy when you need him.....
Play 8/5 Jacks long enough and you will go broke no matter how big your bankroll is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer