casino cheating

Alan, you don't believe it is possible for a dealer to cheat and manipulate the cards (despite that there is a long history of it), and yet you do believe you saw 18 y.o.'s in a row AND that Robert Argentino made a million dollars over 10 years playing -EV video poker?


Something VERY wrong with this picture Alan. Something VERY wrong with your thought process. :rolleyes:

So let's see....67 years old right? Born about '52? So that puts you at 17 in 69? You don't seem the type but I gotta ask....did you do a lot of drugs at Woodstock that altered you brain function or something? Get a hold of some bad "shrooms"? ;)

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Originally Posted by monet

I do believe that Casino dealer cheating is rare these days but I am sure it still happens.

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Ok you nailed it with this statement. Like the guy who returns a missed field goal for a touchdown. Or when someone tells you that they are the best in the world at something and they actually are.

1) Do not let dealers look into the wheel when they set and spin the ball.
If they cannot set up the same way with the same starting point every spin, they will have a much tougher time hitting their target.

2) Have the dealers change the speed of the rotor before spinning, and even change the speed of their spins.
I'm not saying every spin but certainly a few times during each individual tour at the wheel.

3) Change the roulette balls.
Roulette balls come in different sizes and each size has a different feel in the dealer's hand.
Therefore, by changing the balls you are making the dealer who is looking to control the spin less comfortable.


Managing Partner
Nilgiri Gaming LLP
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1. When I started out in the business I was a french roulette dealer, - yep, it was that long ago.
I tried for two years to spin sections and was no nearer being able to place the ball where I wanted than when I started.
After two years I gave up trying.

2. If the three game protection points mentioned in the article are not already part of standard roulette procedure then the management should have been fired.
No dealer is EVER allowed to look in the wheel when he spins, and the wheel is ALWAYS reversed every spin.

3. Any dealer, or manager for that matter, who has apparently developed an ability to drop a ball in a chosen section needs to be fired immediately.
They are soon going to work out that they can make far more money spinning sections for their friends than collecting their regular pay check from the casino.

4. It would be interesting to know what wheels the casino uses.

5. There are two main types of procedure, technical procedures (how you cut chips, push stacks etc), and security procedures.
Technical procedures can vary from casino to casino, but security procedures are INVIOLATE, and can never be altered at the whim of a dealer or pit boss/manager.

6. I've been around a bit, seen dealers in and from many parts of the world, and at the risk of upsetting my American friends I have to say that American roulette dealing standards and procedures are abysmal. It seems like the above mentioned Table Games Director fits right into that standard if Richard Marcus' three measures aren't already part of his table procedures.

Kewlj let me be blunt. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say this ONE dealer is telling the truth about his ability. In which case he's one in a million.

Do I think dealers can cheat? Sure they could. I think they could take advantage of players who count their cards slowly and take away winning hands at blackjack. I think they can miss-call tilted dice. I think they can call no bets when bets are valid.

BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE CLAIM OF THIS DEALER WITHOUT SEEING IT.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

In fact he claimed that ability. See:

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.

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Actually the chunk of 10's and aces behind the cut card is only one of several possibilities that favors the house and would dramatically increase house edge. That happens to be the scenario this person was speaking about as he describes that under that scenario "the card counter would be betting into a false count".

But suppose the high card/ Ace clump was cut into play at the beginning of the shoe. An abundant of 10's and aces (advantage player) would come out the first couple rounds when the card counter had his minimum wager out and there would likely be some 20's pushes with the dealer. Then later in the shoe when the small cards were coming out the house would be at a huge advantage, as the dealer would be making 20, 21 hands out of what look to be bust hands (small cards coming out).

It wouldn't be AS favorable as the scenario that Nightshifter described where the card counter was "tricked" into betting heavy into a false count.....false because the high cards would never come out before the shuffle, but it would still be favorable to the house. There are a number of ways to manipulate the cards in favor of the house.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Kewlj let me be blunt. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say this ONE dealer is telling the truth about his ability. In which case he's one in a million.

Do I think dealers can cheat? Sure they could. I think they could take advantage of players who count their cards slowly and take away winning hands at blackjack. I think they can miss-call tilted dice. I think they can call no bets when bets are valid.

BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE CLAIM OF THIS DEALER WITHOUT SEEING IT.

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Do you believe in Jehovah?
If you do have you ever seen him?

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by monet

I do believe that Casino dealer cheating is rare these days but I am sure it still happens.

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Ok you nailed it with this statement. Like the guy who returns a missed field goal for a touchdown. Or when someone tells you that they are the best in the world at something and they actually are.

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The most important part of the nail was:
Cheat them before they cheat you! :)

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

In fact he claimed that ability. See:

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.

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4/13 or slightly over 30%.
Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

In fact he claimed that ability. See:

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.

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Actually the chunk of 10's and aces behind the cut card is only one of several possibilities that favors the house and would dramatically increase house edge. That happens to be the scenario this person was speaking about as he describes that under that scenario "the card counter would be betting into a false count".

But suppose the high card/ Ace clump was cut into play at the beginning of the shoe. An abundant of 10's and aces (advantage player) would come out the first couple rounds when the card counter had his minimum wager out and there would likely be some 20's pushes with the dealer. Then later in the shoe when the small cards were coming out the house would be at a huge advantage, as the dealer would be making 20, 21 hands out of what look to be bust hands (small cards coming out).

It wouldn't be AS favorable as the scenario that Nightshifter described where the card counter was "tricked" into betting heavy into a false count.....false because the high cards would never come out before the shuffle, but it would still be favorable to the house. There are a number of ways to manipulate the cards in favor of the house.

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Now you're trying to justify what this Nightshifter posted.

Instead of trying to justify it, think for yourself. You read what he wrote.

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

Now, use your experience playing two deck games. And tell us how reasonable a claim is this?

That's what I'm talking about here kewlj. THIS CLAIM. AND ONLY THIS CLAIM.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

In fact he claimed that ability. See:

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.

---

4/13 or slightly over 30%.
Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not

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Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?

I couldn't do it Alan.

I don't believe 99% of dealers could do it.

I don't believe 99.9%, maybe 99.99 % of dealers do it.

But yes I most certainly believe it can be done.

Look up the word "mechanic" in regards to casino dealing.


Now whether this guy is doing it or has ever done it...I have no idea. But he is describing perfectly how one would go about doing it and the effect that it would have. THAT demonstrates knowledge. And that is half the battle. After that all it would take is a little bit of practice.

So I am back to YES, it is very possible.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

In fact he claimed that ability. See:

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.

---

4/13 or slightly over 30%.
Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not

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Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?

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Why anyone wastes time talking to you is beyond reason. I'm out. Feel free to continue being life's sucker.

Don't talk to me MaxPen. Instead get two decks of cards. Clump together all the tens and aces. Ask several people to insert a cut card, then make the cut. Tell us how many times the clump remains behind so they aren't dealt.

Just do it.

Live in your fantasy world.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MaxPen think about it for a moment. What percentage of two decks is made up of tens?

Player inserts the cut card, after the tens are clumped.

Now what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is preserved? And what is the likelihood that the clump of tens is moved to the back of the two decks so they are not dealt?

This magician would not only be able to clump the tens but would have to be a psychic to know where the player inserts the cut card.

In fact he claimed that ability. See:

I would purposely keep a "chunk" of 10s and Aces in an area that most people would cut out and wind up behind the cut card via offset shuffling. You really see this in 2 Deck games

And he did this with only two decks which gives him virtually no margin for error.

---

4/13 or slightly over 30%.
Now answer my questions instead of asking more. This is why you are just hopeless. Clue_It makes no difference if they're dealt or not

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Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?

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Alan, you always think everything is absolute, 100%.

Not all the 10's (30% of total cards) would be in that clump. Some would still be spread out throughout the decks. All you would need is a higher concentrate than "normal".

Same thing with cutting a clump out of play. The guys clearly said, not always was the clump cut out of play. But based on trends, more often than not, it could be. And that is all you need to increase the house edge dramatically or to send a player, particularly a card counter from +EV to big -EV.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

Why anyone wastes time talking to you is beyond reason. I'm out. Feel free to continue being life's sucker.

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That's cold.
In the end we are all life's sucker to be fair and balanced.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I couldn't do it Alan.

I don't believe 99% of dealers could do it.

I don't believe 99.9%, maybe 99.99 % of dealers do it.

But yes I most certainly believe it can be done.

Look up the word "mechanic" in regards to casino dealing.


Now whether this guy is doing it or has ever done it...I have no idea. But he is describing perfectly how one would go about doing it and the effect that it would have. THAT demonstrates knowledge. And that is half the battle. After that all it would take is a little bit of practice.

So I am back to YES, it is very possible.

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Fine you believe it's possible. I also believe it's possible and I'm sure I could find a magician at the Magic Castle who can do it.

Does that mean I should worry about it in a casino with all of the dealers who can't do it?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Fine you believe it's possible. I also believe it's possible and I'm sure I could find a magician at the Magic Castle who can do it.

Does that mean I should worry about it in a casino with all of the dealers who can't do it?

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Worry? No. Be vigilant and aware of the possibility? Yes.

ESPECIALLY if you are a card counting type AP who makes his living from that game. :rolleyes:

Like I said, I have had exactly two dealers that I believe cheated me (multiple times) out of thousands. (there were probably more that I didn't catch on to), but 2 that I feel certain did. So because I am aware that it can happen, I was able to identify it and cut my losses. One casino I removed from my rotation, the second I just removed that dealer from my rotation.

IF I just said "oh it's 2019 and that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore", my losses would have been many times greater. I mean maybe a guy who enjoys playing -EV games and making his regular donation to the casinos wouldn't care. But I do. :rolleyes:

Before you joined this forum there was a thread started by a member named Ahhcraps who talked about a bad call at a table at Caesars and how no player at the table would throw the dice because of it.

A couple of weeks ago, me and three other players walked out of a casino where the craps dealers were making bad calls.

You're not the only one who takes action kewlj.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE CLAIM OF THIS DEALER WITHOUT SEEING IT.

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Since KJ along with several other Vegas AP’s are working Vegas casinos for a living and who would need to remain anonymous, we need to find a person there who is willing to take this to the next level.

I think Alan a resident, known gambler to the casinos, career investigator reporter would fit this setting perfectly. He should contact the NGC, local mayor, senator, congressmen, then firstly direct them all to this person’s posts claiming to be a cheating dealer for Vegas casinos.

Just put Einstein Mickey’s opinion into action. Quote: “My opinion is NGC should be informed of the possibility. NGC should start an undercover investigation to see if it is going on and how prevalent it is. And perpetrators should be punished. They need to send a big message that it won't be tolerated.”

If NGC takes no action is the reason you contacted elected officials. One of them should be willing to take the baton and run with it. If still no response then last resort would be to try contacting Harry Reid. I’m sure he still has connections with the Clinton Mafia. Maybe if we all get together and make a donation to one of their charities, we could then convince them into getting to the bottom of this.

I want to know why kewlj believes in this? Could it be he needs an excuse to account for his losses?

Of course! Only a cheating dealer could make him lose thousands.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by blackhole

To throw another unproven bullshit claim story at us just like the ASM claim looking for a thumbs up or thumbs down.

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Over the course of the fall, this model machine did show up at two other properties in the Valley and were quickly exploited by local players (not me) who were all over it. And it is my understanding the top table AP and his team did quite a bit of damage out of town at several locations before machines were pulled.

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KJ, am I correct in assuming from what you said above that those machines were taken out of the Valley casinos as well as the out of town ones? Something else really interesting I caught in that post that you hadn`t mentioned before, but I know you can`t say much about the subject so I`ll leave that part alone. You can probably guess it.

To Alan: as KJ suggested, try searching on YouTube for "mechanic cheating dealers" or something like that. I`ve seen one where a poker dealer could tell you who he`s going to deal pocket aces to, and demonstrated similar things with perfect accuracy. Obviously not many people can do these types of things, but it is possible.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I want to know why kewlj believes in this? Could it be he needs an excuse to account for his losses?

Of course! Only a cheating dealer could make him lose thousands.

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No, KJ isn’t a complete fool. I truly believe he is suffering from some type of insecurity issue. I think I recall him explaining how his stepdad threw him out of their home in NJ for being a homo. Being a queer and all that could explain a lot of his forum tales.

He just needs to shuffle all over gambling forums and pretend to not only be a BJ superstar, but to convince others since he’s in casinos and on forums everyday how he’s up on current events, trying to protect others from the evil empire. It’s all done just for attention. How else could you explain such creative stories? Similar to Dark Ass the AP from WOV.

His search for attention forces him to over use his imagination, and forgets that even though most posters are anonymous doesn’t mean they’re all idiots.

I also think most of the forum AP click that back him realize this and do it knowing there must some wires crossed.

Split face there are YouTube videos of a guy claiming to predict his dice throws. I can create a video like that. First I shoot the video, then I record a narration to match the video.

Geez. How naive are you people?

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Originally Posted by SplitFaceDisaster

KJ, am I correct in assuming from what you said above that those machines were taken out of the Valley casinos as well as the out of town ones? Something else really interesting I caught in that post that you hadn`t mentioned before, but I know you can`t say much about the subject so I`ll leave that part alone. You can probably guess it.

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Oh No, how could you leave us in such great suspense?

Anyone that thinks cards can't be manipulated while being shuffled is a fool. One of the ways poker dealers collude with players is called Location. The dealer flashes a few cards from the muck to a player, usually sitting to his left, to show him what is coming on the flop in the next hand. It is a well known way to cheat by poker players.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

No, KJ isn’t a complete fool. I truly believe he is suffering from some type of insecurity issue. I think I recall him explaining how his stepdad threw him out of their home in NJ for being a homo. Being a queer and all that could explain a lot of his forum tales.

He just needs to shuffle all over gambling forums and pretend to not only be a BJ superstar, but to convince others since he’s in casinos and on forums everyday how he’s up on current events, trying to protect others from the evil empire. It’s all done just for attention. How else could you explain such creative stories? Similar to Dark Ass the AP from WOV.

His search for attention forces him to over use his imagination, and forgets that even though most posters are anonymous doesn’t mean they’re all idiots.

I also think most of the forum AP click that back him realize this and do it knowing there must some wires crossed.

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I have never lived in New Jersey. You can't even get your lies straight blackhole, you obsessed piece of shit. Bringing up my sexuality in a discussion like this proves your obsession. What a freaking low life.

I start this thread so, players, both AP's and non-AP's can be informed of what this person claiming go be a dealer or former dealer claims and decide for themselves. I have also provided some information along the way warning players, information that I would have probably been better off keeping to myself. And we manage to have some pretty decent discussions. Respectful, even from someone like Alan that doesn't want to believe. But you come along and have to immediately drag us into the mud with your misguided hate attacks. So easy to tear down and attack. When have you ever added anything positive to this forum?

Damn your a coward, low life, piece of shit. Someone in your family really needs to pull the plug on your oxygen, so your tired, old, diseased ass can slip away to hell where you belong.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Thirty percent... and that 30% clump survives the cut card and the cut? And just what percentage of the time does that happen with two decks?

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Actually it's 30.77% tens and 38.46%with Aces. This is why HiLo won't work in pitch games. For one thing, your spread is limited so you can't overcome the downturns of decks when Aces and Tens come out early. Now, with a column count, you can survive these decks until you get one to your advantage. Everyone knows that a deck rich in Tens/Aces is a good threshold. But few ask themselves "what don't I want remaining"? For advantage, the less 5s and 6s reduce your chances of getting 15 or 16 significantly. Therefore, it's not always about betting large in a deck rich in 10/Aces. Sometimes it's about accumulating funds by passing on large bets when the deck is also rich in another group.

Hence, you don't have to make bad bets back if you don't take the bait in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I want to know why kewlj believes in this? Could it be he needs an excuse to account for his losses?

Of course! Only a cheating dealer could make him lose thousands.

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Shame on you too Alan. I specifically stated that my current losing period has nothing to do with being cheated. Why the fuck do you need to lie to try to make your points?

What I do, grinding out a living playing the smallest of edges, blackjack card counting, results in some negative runs of weeks, sometimes months at a time. Usually these periods consist of a short losing period, followed by a slow recovery back to where you were. At other times there isn't that short losing period, just a long stagnant period that you sort of remain stuck.

These periods are just part of what I do. I have documented numerous of these periods, including 4 or 5 that lasted up to six months. I am currently 3 months into such a period. Big loss and have yet to climb back to my last ATH. But I will.

Alan, I try to treat you with respect. Don't sink to the level of a blackhole and Singer and lie, troll and twist everything.

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Originally Posted by Moses

Actually it's 30.77% tens and 38.46%with Aces. This is why HiLo won't work in pitch games. For one thing, your spread is limited so you can't overcome the downturns of decks when Aces and Tens come out early. Now, with a column count, you can survive these decks until you get one to your advantage. Everyone knows that a deck rich in Tens/Aces is a good threshold. But few ask themselves "what don't I want remaining"? For advantage, the less 5s and 6s reduce your chances of getting 15 or 16 significantly. Therefore, it's not always about betting large in a deck rich in 10/Aces. Sometimes it's about accumulating funds by passing on large bets when the deck is also rich in another group.

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Count debate!?! Come on Moses, stop with your T3 impersonation. That "HiLo won't work in pitch games" is complete bullshit!! HiLo works fine in pitch games. If you believe that little bit extra that simulations show for a more specialized count benefits you, fine, play what you want, but don't lie about something that has been proven for 50 years. What next? The earth is flat?

Sorry KJ, you might be right. It could've been Philadelphia. I did start the post off with I think.

My suspicions of you being a queer and having some wires crossed trying to justify your stupidity are no different then you suspicions of me Quote: "Damn your a coward, low life, piece of shit."

On another note how do you feel about my previous suggestion below. Convince your new pal Alan to do it. What do you think?


Since KJ along with several other Vegas AP’s are working Vegas casinos for a living and who would need to remain anonymous, we need to find a person there who is willing to take this to the next level.

I think Alan a resident, known gambler to the casinos, career investigator reporter would fit this setting perfectly. He should contact the NGC, local mayor, senator, congressmen, then firstly direct them all to this person’s posts claiming to be a cheating dealer for Vegas casinos.

Just put Einstein Mickey’s opinion into action. Quote: “My opinion is NGC should be informed of the possibility. NGC should start an undercover investigation to see if it is going on and how prevalent it is. And perpetrators should be punished. They need to send a big message that it won't be tolerated.”

If NGC takes no action is the reason you contacted elected officials. One of them should be willing to take the baton and run with it. If still no response then last resort would be to try contacting Harry Reid. I’m sure he still has connections with the Clinton Mafia. Maybe if we all get together and make a donation to one of their charities, we could then convince them into getting to the bottom of this.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Moses

Actually it's 30.77% tens and 38.46%with Aces. This is why HiLo won't work in pitch games. For one thing, your spread is limited so you can't overcome the downturns of decks when Aces and Tens come out early. Now, with a column count, you can survive these decks until you get one to your advantage. Everyone knows that a deck rich in Tens/Aces is a good threshold. But few ask themselves "what don't I want remaining"? For advantage, the less 5s and 6s reduce your chances of getting 15 or 16 significantly. Therefore, it's not always about betting large in a deck rich in 10/Aces. Sometimes it's about accumulating funds by passing on large bets when the deck is also rich in another group.

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Count debate!?! Come on Moses, stop with your T3 impersonation. That "HiLo won't work in pitch games" is complete bullshit!! HiLo works fine in pitch games. If you believe that little bit extra that simulations show for a more specialized count benefits you, fine, play what you want, but don't lie about something that has been proven for 50 years. What next? The earth is flat?

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You are so full of shit your eyes are completely brown. I'm not the one writing thread upon thread about cheating casinos. YOU are. Why? Because you can't play the fucking game and want to blame them for your own inadequacies and being so naïve you think they will lay down and let you win. BULLSHIT! I've played well over a million hands in a casino, probably another million on Verite, and reviewed hundreds of sims line by line. It's called WORK.

What you think these casinos offer blackjack so you can make a living? No. You take what they give and don't take more than they are willing to give or put up a going out of business sign. Otherwise, your are writing and crying your eyes out on some forum somewhere about cheating casinos. Of course they cheat. Maybe go to a carnival where you can win a teddy bear on a fair game? Yeah right!

Instead of pissing and moaning about it all the time. Figure out what they are doing and beat them at their own game.

Why in the blue fuck is the 2 so vital that you think it deserves the same weight as a 5 in a pitch game? Geezous Carist. Have you ever taken a deep look at a sim? I'm not talking about the surface bullshit that T3 yammers on and on about. No I'm talking about actually playing the game. Not some guy sitting in a cold dark basement on the east coast whacking his banana by getting people to argue with him.

Hell, if all you want is 50% pen, HiLo, and a limited spread? I'll be the house.

Wise UP!

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Sorry KJ, you might be right. It could've been Philadelphia. I did start the post off with I think.

My suspicions of you being a queer and having some wires crossed trying to justify your stupidity are no different then you suspicions of me Quote: "Damn your a coward, low life, piece of shit."

On another note how do you feel about my previous suggestion below. Convince your new pal Alan to do it. What do you think?


Since KJ along with several other Vegas AP’s are working Vegas casinos for a living and who would need to remain anonymous, we need to find a person there who is willing to take this to the next level.

I think Alan a resident, known gambler to the casinos, career investigator reporter would fit this setting perfectly. He should contact the NGC, local mayor, senator, congressmen, then firstly direct them all to this person’s posts claiming to be a cheating dealer for Vegas casinos.

Just put Einstein Mickey’s opinion into action. Quote: “My opinion is NGC should be informed of the possibility. NGC should start an undercover investigation to see if it is going on and how prevalent it is. And perpetrators should be punished. They need to send a big message that it won't be tolerated.”

If NGC takes no action is the reason you contacted elected officials. One of them should be willing to take the baton and run with it. If still no response then last resort would be to try contacting Harry Reid. I’m sure he still has connections with the Clinton Mafia. Maybe if we all get together and make a donation to one of their charities, we could then convince them into getting to the bottom of this.

---

I lived in Philadelphia, but only as an adult. My stepfather never lived in Philadelphia that I am aware of. Swing and a miss. Strike two.


You deserve no respectful from me....nothing! But I will take the high road and respond respectfully.

You are correct about why I refused to get involve when I brought this ASM issue to light last year. There is absolutely no upside for me getting involved and being the face of such a challenge or even bringing such a case to gaming. That would be a losing proposition for an active players. There was discussion of Shackleford being that "front guy" but by the time he decided to take a look at the situation, the specific situation had dissolved....machines had been pulled from the floor.

I am not sure I am in favor of that path anyway. I mean this isn't exactly countermeasures, it's cheating. But there are some similarities to countermeasures cases in that if through courts or some legal authority like a gaming commission you force the casino industry to do this or that, something they don't want to do, the result can be even worse.

Case in point: Ken Uston and Atlantic City. Kenny "won" vs Atlantic City, making it so AC could not bar players. The result, now 40 years of almost unplayable games in Atlantic City.

In Nevada we (AP's, especially card counter AP's) play the cat and mouse game. And that is not a bad solution. You learn to play that game. You learn what is and isn't tolerated. (that has been my whole approach). Essentially, you learn to co-exist. Rocking the boat and forcing change will only result in a counter action from casinos, the result of which likely will be worse.

But there is a problem and that is "technology". New technology is going to keep appearing that allows or aids the casino industry to cross the line. If you do nothing, they will cross the line a little bit here, a little more there, and even more next time. :( So I don't honestly know what the answer is.

Proven for 50 years? My ass. Every book, tool, and forum is written based on a game of cards played by people and the dealer busting. Actually, it's a game a people played with cards and you must finish your hand before the dealer ever makes a move. That's a fact. Essentially, you are in control until they take that control away. Don't let greed be the reason they take your control away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I lived in Philadelphia, but only as an adult. My stepfather never lived in Philadelphia that I am aware of. Swing and a miss. Strike two.

---

Okay. So where ever it was he did through you out for being gay...correct?

Yo didn't respond to the suggestion about getting to the bottom of the mechanic dealer. What do you think?

But if you are wiling to be the house and play me at my game and give me your spread? Hell yes. You don't think I can do what I say I can do? I will verbalize the so called "complex" count out loud while we are playing. It would make it even easier. I would love, love, love the opportunity to compete without the fear of being 86ed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moses

You are so full of shit your eyes are completely brown. I'm not the one writing thread upon thread about cheating casinos. YOU are. Why? Because you can't play the fucking game and want to blame them for your own inadequacies and being so naïve you think they will lay down and let you win. BULLSHIT! I've played well over a million hands in a casino, probably another million on Verite, and reviewed hundreds of sims line by line. It's called WORK.

What you think these casinos offer blackjack so you can make a living? No. You take what they give and don't take more than they are willing to give or put up a going out of business sign. Otherwise, your are writing and crying your eyes out on some forum somewhere about cheating casinos. Of course they cheat. Maybe go to a carnival where you can win a teddy bear on a fair game? Yeah right!

Instead of pissing and moaning about it all the time. Figure out what they are doing and beat them at their own game.

Why in the blue fuck is the 2 so vital that you think it deserves the same weight as a 5 in a pitch game? Geezous Carist. Have you ever taken a deep look at a sim? I'm not talking about the surface bullshit that T3 yammers on and on about.

Hell, if all you want is 50% pen, HiLo, and a limited spread? I'll be the house.

Wise UP!

---

Complete nonsense, Moses! You are heading down the same road as T3 and Flash before you, declaring that hi-lo doesn't work and only your super-duper method works. And this despite that thousand of players have experienced success using hi-lo or some other similar, simple, level 1 count. That includes most of the various teams, including all the MIT variations and Tommy Hyland's teams of 40 years.

If you or anyone wants to make the case for a higher level or specialty count and that the little benefit that it may gain in specific cases is worth it to you, FINE. But if you can't make that case without falsely claiming that hi-lo or simpler counts don't work, then you flat out can't make the case. The fact is any count that identifies a disparage in the ratio of Aces and Ten value cards to non 10 value cards, will identify an advantage.

The fact that T3, Flash and now you seem to need to falsely tear down other methods in order to promote your own is both weird and factually false. Nobody knows more about column counts than Tarzan. He has been working on his specialty count for 20 years, but not once have I heard him say, hi-lo or other counts don't work and only his does. Doing so, challenges 50+ years of Math and thousands of players that have succeeded using it.

You can play whatever count you like Moses. But don't tell me and thousands of others who have experienced success to the tune of millions and millions of dollars (combined) what works and what doesn't work. AND if you can't engage in discussion without flying off the handle like you just did, then you won't be engaging in discussion with me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Yo didn't respond to the suggestion about getting to the bottom of the mechanic dealer. What do you think?

---

I most certainly DID respond. Post #111. What the F is going on here? Is this a whole forum of people with reading comprehension problems? :confused:

It seems like this forum slides further and further into the twilight zone on a daily basis. :( I gotta get ready for work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

I wrote that there is proof that BJ dealers (and thus casinos) cheat as shown in the YouTube video of live play at an online casino.

---

We should acknowledge that the clip posted earlier was created by Mike Morgenstern, so its authenticity could be considered dubious.

But let's assume it's authentic...in the Morgenstern clip it sure looks like the dealer deals a second.

Morgenstern is dealt the second...a 6...then the dealer deals himself an 8.

If he had dealt the cards in proper order, Morgenstern would have received the 8, and the dealer the 6...that's what the clip appears to show.

If the dealer receives a 6, then he must take another card. So we don't know the outcome if the cards would have been dealt properly, since the clip doesn't continue to show the next card dealt from the shoe.

Besides...how does the dealer know the value of the cards he is about to deal if they are face down in a shoe, such that dealing a second is to his advantage?

This was a clip from online play, so we don't really know what else is going on other than what we can see.

Maybe the dealer is somehow being shown the value of the cards in the shoe before they are dealt, or maybe the cards are marked...like with braille or something...so that the dealer can tell by touching them.

But Nightshifter was writing about live casinos...not online casinos.

Does the Morgenstern clip really prove that brick-and-mortar casinos cheat?

Coach--exactly. I don't question dealing seconds or whether a casino may cheat. But in the video where he is dealing seconds, how does he know what the cards are and when to do so. He has to have some other tool to tell him what the cards are.

RFID chips in the cards. They are scanned for the on screen display. Not saying this is what happened, but someone off screen would know the exact card order in the shoe and direct the dealer what to do. I won't be surprised when these "live" poker tournament final tables get hacked.

As for the dealer KJ linked to, it's just dealer shuffle tracking and false or weak shuffling. Whether or not he was successful at it is another story.

First of all, anyone trusting any online casinos in third world countries from the USA are fucking idiots to begin with. So, why even have that discussion here.

Second of all, KJ is a bag full of bullshit. He has better moves than a magician when he twists and turns with added bullshit trying to maneuver out from under looking like a fucking idiot. He'll change topics bringing up shit that has nothing to do with the active discussion when he's pinned. Anything that idiot says should be ignored. He would of been better off if he stayed away this 29th time he promised he was through here. Instead he comes back and makes a bigger idiot out of himself. Like he say's, "you just know when someone is full of shit".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

First of all, anyone trusting any online casinos in third world countries from the USA are fucking idiots to begin with. So, why even have that discussion here.

Second of all, KJ is a bag full of bullshit. He has better moves than a magician when he twists and turns with added bullshit trying to maneuver out from under looking like a fucking idiot. He'll change topics bringing up shit that has nothing to do with the active discussion when he's pinned. Anything that idiot says should be ignored. He would of been better off if he stayed away this 29th time he promised he was through here. Instead he comes back and makes a bigger idiot out of himself. Like he say's, "you just know when someone is full of shit".

---

You really should seek help for your inadequacies. Might bring some light into your existence. Might even motivate you to shed the blackhole moniker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moses

You are so full of shit your eyes are completely brown. I'm not the one writing thread upon thread about cheating casinos. YOU are. Why? Because you can't play the fucking game and want to blame them for your own inadequacies and being so naïve you think they will lay down and let you win. BULLSHIT! I've played well over a million hands in a casino, probably another million on Verite, and reviewed hundreds of sims line by line. It's called WORK.

What you think these casinos offer blackjack so you can make a living? No. You take what they give and don't take more than they are willing to give or put up a going out of business sign. Otherwise, your are writing and crying your eyes out on some forum somewhere about cheating casinos. Of course they cheat. Maybe go to a carnival where you can win a teddy bear on a fair game? Yeah right!

Instead of pissing and moaning about it all the time. Figure out what they are doing and beat them at their own game.

Why in the blue fuck is the 2 so vital that you think it deserves the same weight as a 5 in a pitch game? Geezous Carist. Have you ever taken a deep look at a sim? I'm not talking about the surface bullshit that T3 yammers on and on about.

Hell, if all you want is 50% pen, HiLo, and a limited spread? I'll be the house.

Wise UP!

---

Complete nonsense, Moses! You are heading down the same road as T3 and Flash before you, declaring that hi-lo doesn't work and only your super-duper method works. And this despite that thousand of players have experienced success using hi-lo or some other similar, simple, level 1 count. That includes most of the various teams, including all the MIT variations and Tommy Hyland's teams of 40 years.

If you or anyone wants to make the case for a higher level or specialty count and that the little benefit that it may gain in specific cases is worth it to you, FINE. But if you can't make that case without falsely claiming that hi-lo or simpler counts don't work, then you flat out can't make the case. The fact is any count that identifies a disparage in the ratio of Aces and Ten value cards to non 10 value cards, will identify an advantage.

The fact that T3, Flash and now you seem to need to falsely tear down other methods in order to promote your own is both weird and factually false. Nobody knows more about column counts than Tarzan. He has been working on his specialty count for 20 years, but not once have I heard him say, hi-lo or other counts don't work and only his does. Doing so, challenges 50+ years of Math and thousands of players that have succeeded using it.

You can play whatever count you like Moses. But don't tell me and thousands of others who have experienced success to the tune of millions and millions of dollars (combined) what works and what doesn't work. AND if you can't engage in discussion without flying off the handle like you just did, then you won't be engaging in discussion with me.

---

Come play me then. im talking about pitch. i dont know a damn thing about shoes...and I dont care. I will give you the same game as El Cortez without the "clumping." Im willing to put my money where my mouth is. Are you? HiLo, straight up. 50% pen. 1 to 8 spread. knock yourself out.

We both knpw I could drop you like a bad bkfst from the dollar menu at McD. you start messing with these casinos. What do u think they could do?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Complete nonsense, Moses!.

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Common sense. If you don't get pen. You can't win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

You are heading down the same road as T3 and Flash before you, declaring that hi-lo doesn't work and only your super-duper method works.
.

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That shit doesn't work either. Maybe in the 80s for someone too lazy to actually track the cards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

And this despite that thousand of players have experienced success using hi-lo or some other similar, simple, level 1 count. That includes most of the various teams, including all the MIT variations and Tommy Hyland's teams of 40 years..

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Good luck wonging in and out of a pitch games nowadays. Yes, please loan me $3,000 so I can go to a camp and shake Tommy Hyland hand. Maybe I will get better cards. I don't give a fuck about what someone did in the past. I only care about what I'm doing today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

If you or anyone wants to make the case for a higher level or specialty count and that the little benefit that it may gain in specific cases is worth it to you, FINE. But if you can't make that case without falsely claiming that hi-lo or simpler counts don't work, then you flat out can't make the case. The fact is any count that identifies a disparage in the ratio of Aces and Ten value cards to non 10 value cards, will identify an advantage..

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I couldn't give two shits about what anyone does or thinks. But if you think the casino is going to offer a pitch game where any swinging dick that ever read a blackjack book can waltz in with HiLO and shove it up their asses for $100K a year? You're crazier than Flash. What I do, isn't really complex for anyone with a half of brain. But it IS the difference between winning and losing as well as playing today and tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

The fact that T3, Flash and now you seem to need to falsely tear down other methods in order to promote your own is both weird and factually false. Nobody knows more about column counts than Tarzan. He has been working on his specialty count for 20 years, but not once have I heard him say, hi-lo or other counts don't work and only his does. Doing so, challenges 50+ years of Math and thousands of players that have succeeded using it..

---

Tarzan, Smarzan. Last I heard he still giving the 6 the same credit as a 9. Reducing the lowest column to zero is different that knowing exactly what is played vs what still remains. I guess it's suppose to be a better way of guessing. So he claims to be able to just sort of wing and count the 23s,45s,67,89s, separately over 6 decks? C'mon man. I can do it over one. But what's the point? The information from that isn't of much use. Now, go 2-4s, 5-7s, 89s and you have something of value that will allow sound decision making.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

You can play whatever count you like Moses.

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Thank you. I will with or without your permission. It will be my own. Not some shit I read out of a book.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

But don't tell me and thousands of others who have experienced success to the tune of millions and millions of dollars (combined) what works and what doesn't work.

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Not only will I say this. But I will be the house against your HiLor's in El Cortez pitch games straight up, 50% pen, 1 to 8 spread double deck. In other words, I'm willing to pit my years of experience and extensive research against your forum rhetoric.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

AND if you can't engage in discussion without flying off the handle like you just did, then you won't be engaging in discussion with me.

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STOP arguing like a woman.

What the fuck is the matter with you Moses? I have no idea what this is all about. I guess some kind of challenge. Like I am supposed to put hi lo against whatever count you play in some kind of contest? What the fuck? I don't care what you play. I hope you have success. Matters not to me.

All I am saying is stop saying hi-lo doesn't work. That is just factually wrong proven by thousands of players and teams of players over 50+ years.

Not that it matters, because I have no intention of meeting you for any kind of challenge or contest. I play to make money. I make a living at this. I don't care about your goofy need for a pissing contest. Like I said, not that it matters, but where did you ever come up with this bullshit that I play 50% penetration? El Cortez double deck penetration runs anywhere from 60% to as high as 75%. On occasion I have played 80%. The minimum penetration I will play on any double deck game is about 62-63% if I have a heads up game. With 1-2 other players the minimum I play is 67%.

Moses, stop with these challenges bullshit. I am well aware of your challenges and threats and shit. On another forum you threatened to come to Las Vegas and shoot me. You called Norm Wattenberger at his home multiple times threatening him. I have no love loss for Norm, but you are deranged.

This is the last time I am going to tell you, if you want to have civilized discussions as you have for some of your time here, I am willing to engage. If you travel down your usual path of threats bullshit, we are done. I will simply block you and treat you like the others trolls you are beginning to act like. Your choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

All I am saying is stop saying hi-lo doesn't work. That is just factually wrong proven by thousands of players and teams of players over 50+ years..

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And I'm saying it doesn't work in today's pitch games. I'm willing to be the house because this is about the 10th thread you've started to complain about cheating. Yet, refuse to do anything to improve your game. So you're going to fuck up my game in order to force the casinos to play fair? Maybe, maybe if you get 75% pen. But that doesn't come without a pit boss on your ass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Not that it matters, because I have no intention of meeting you for any kind of challenge or contest. I play to make money. I make a living at this. I don't care about your goofy need for a pissing contest. Like I said, not that it matters, but where did you ever come up with this bullshit that I play 50% penetration? El Cortez double deck penetration runs anywhere from 60% to as high as 75%. On occasion I have played 80%. The minimum penetration I will play on any double deck game is about 62-63% if I have a heads up game. With 1-2 other players the minimum I play is 67%..

---

I make money by spotting value trends. I see being the house against you with HiLo in double deck as an excellent value.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Moses, stop with these challenges bullshit. I am well aware of your challenges and threats and shit. On another forum you threatened to come to Las Vegas and shoot me. .

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Stop being so dramatic, drama queen. I never threatened to shoot anyone in my life. All I'd have to do is blow on you and you'd run like a little girl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

You called Norm Wattenberger at his home multiple times threatening him. .

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I called Norm three times within about a 15 minute period after 5 years of dealing with Flash's bullshit, threats, and non sense. Norm claims he doesn't know, never met, or ever heard of Flash or T3. Yet Flash says they were ass hole buddies. I find that just a little hard to believe considering those two dominate that forum with over 20K posts insisting on their rules their way. "This forum is our town." Flashes said. So I called the Mayor. Anyway, it's clear Norm is a pussy because he'd just hang up. So that was that. Flash got my email through Norm's forum and was sharing it with others without my permission. nuf said?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have no love loss for Norm, but you are deranged..

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Maybe. But I'm not the one writing stuff on a forum I can't, won't or don't have the balls to back up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

This is the last time I am going to tell you, if you want to have civilized discussions as you have for some of your time here, I am willing to engage. If you travel down your usual path of threats bullshit, we are done. I will simply block you and treat you like the others trolls you are beginning to act like. Your choice...

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I don't give a fuck what you do. You clearly argue like a woman. IF you continue to write these threads that continue to weaken my game and rules, then yes, I will be responding. Protecting my game is simply part of my job. A very important one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

I don't believe Nightshifter's BS for even one second

---

Nightshifter made a claim that seems suspicious to me...

"rather odd why they use an ASM on single and 2 deck games when the dealer can actually shuffle faster"

In my experience with ASMs, there are 2 packs of cards used in the game...the pack that's on the table, and a second pack of cards in the ASM, already shuffled.

After the last hand of the pack is finished, the dealer puts the current pack into the shuffler, and takes out the shuffled pack that was already in the ASM.

How can a dealer shuffle faster than cards that are already shuffled?

Or maybe I'm mistaken about the 2 packs of cards?

Hi-lo can absolutely beat a pitch game. Is it the best option for them? No. But to say it won't beat them is absurd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

I don't believe Nightshifter's BS for even one second

---

Nightshifter made a claim that seems suspicious to me...

"rather odd why they use an ASM on single and 2 deck games when the dealer can actually shuffle faster"

In my experience with ASMs, there are 2 packs of cards used in the game...the pack that's on the table, and a second pack of cards in the ASM, already shuffled.

After the last hand of the pack is finished, the dealer puts the current pack into the shuffler, and takes out the shuffled pack that was already in the ASM.

How can a dealer shuffle faster than cards that are already shuffled?

Or maybe I'm mistaken about the 2 packs of cards?

---

Machines are most definitely faster because it's doing the work while the other deck(s) are being used.

Now if you put a deck(s) in the ASM at the same time as a dealer starts a shuffle with another deck(s), most dealers will be faster then the ASM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Machines are most definitely faster because it's doing the work while the other deck(s) are being used.

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How could a dealer not know that?

Don't all ASM games use 2 packs of cards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Machines are most definitely faster because it's doing the work while the other deck(s) are being used.

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How could a dealer not know that?

Don't all ASM games use 2 packs of cards?

---

Your guess is as good as mine.

All that I've seen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Sorry KJ, you might be right. It could've been Philadelphia. I did start the post off with I think.

My suspicions of you being a queer and having some wires crossed trying to justify your stupidity are no different then you suspicions of me Quote: "Damn your a coward, low life, piece of shit."

On another note how do you feel about my previous suggestion below. Convince your new pal Alan to do it. What do you think?


Since KJ along with several other Vegas AP’s are working Vegas casinos for a living and who would need to remain anonymous, we need to find a person there who is willing to take this to the next level.

I think Alan a resident, known gambler to the casinos, career investigator reporter would fit this setting perfectly. He should contact the NGC, local mayor, senator, congressmen, then firstly direct them all to this person’s posts claiming to be a cheating dealer for Vegas casinos.

Just put Einstein Mickey’s opinion into action. Quote: “My opinion is NGC should be informed of the possibility. NGC should start an undercover investigation to see if it is going on and how prevalent it is. And perpetrators should be punished. They need to send a big message that it won't be tolerated.”

If NGC takes no action is the reason you contacted elected officials. One of them should be willing to take the baton and run with it. If still no response then last resort would be to try contacting Harry Reid. I’m sure he still has connections with the Clinton Mafia. Maybe if we all get together and make a donation to one of their charities, we could then convince them into getting to the bottom of this.

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You are the one that made this proposal so get off you dead ass and put it into action. Or are you to chickenshit? Or are you just a lazy fuck wanting everyone else to do everything while you sit on your stinking ass?

Interesting coach belly. I interpreted Nightshifters comments differently than you did. Here's the quote again: "rather odd why they use an ASM on single and 2 deck games when the dealer can actually shuffle faster..." His actual quote ended in three 3 dots. :confused: I am not sure what that is about. I always thought that mean there is more to it, or a partial thought/statement. But I am not going to guess Nightshifters meaning. There is no doubt his writing style is difficult.


So anyway back to the quote. I interpreted that he was saying he found it odd that they used the ASM on single and doubled deck games that the dealer could shuffle faster. Not faster than the machine, but rather faster than the 6/8 deck game shuffle. The 6/8 deck hand shuffle takes about 3 minutes. :( That is 3 minutes of down time for the casino. The double deck game hand shuffle takes 30 seconds.

THAT is supposed to be the REAL benefit of ASM for casinos, less down time. And because they machine cost money on an ongoing basis (must be leased), many casino only use them on the shoe games where they can save the most time. Other casinos use them on all games.

So I interpreted he found that odd and I kind of read into it that he was sort of hinting there may be another less savory reason why they are willing to pay the cost just to save the 30 seconds.

Just my interpretation, which I am sure you will dismiss. I really have no idea. Like I said, this guy is sort of hard to read and get a read on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by regnis

Coach--exactly. I don't question dealing seconds or whether a casino may cheat. But in the video where he is dealing seconds, how does he know what the cards are and when to do so. He has to have some other tool to tell him what the cards are.

---

As he deals the cards he is looking up at a screen that tells him what the cards are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

First of all, anyone trusting any online casinos in third world countries from the USA are fucking idiots to begin with. So, why even have that discussion here.

Second of all, KJ is a bag full of bullshit. He has better moves than a magician when he twists and turns with added bullshit trying to maneuver out from under looking like a fucking idiot. He'll change topics bringing up shit that has nothing to do with the active discussion when he's pinned. Anything that idiot says should be ignored. He would of been better off if he stayed away this 29th time he promised he was through here. Instead he comes back and makes a bigger idiot out of himself. Like he say's, "you just know when someone is full of shit".

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You are ruining this thread. For once in your life man up and knock it off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Just my interpretation, which I am sure you will dismiss. I really have no idea. Like I said, this guy is sort of hard to read and get a read on.

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Actually, with further thought, we can just ask him. So I did. I just asked for a clarification. Made no reference to my interpretation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

First of all, anyone trusting any online casinos in third world countries from the USA are fucking idiots to begin with. So, why even have that discussion here.

Second of all, KJ is a bag full of bullshit. He has better moves than a magician when he twists and turns with added bullshit trying to maneuver out from under looking like a fucking idiot. He'll change topics bringing up shit that has nothing to do with the active discussion when he's pinned. Anything that idiot says should be ignored. He would of been better off if he stayed away this 29th time he promised he was through here. Instead he comes back and makes a bigger idiot out of himself. Like he say's, "you just know when someone is full of shit".

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You are ruining this thread. For once in your life man up and knock it off.

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For what it is worth mickeycrimm, I requested by PM that Dan ban Blackhole from this thread, as per Dan's guidelines. Dan read my PM several hours ago, and has taken no action. It appears Dan Druff is embracing the trolling that is destroying this site, more than ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

As he deals the cards he is looking up at a screen that tells him what the cards are.

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And how would that work in a brick-and-mortar casino?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

As he deals the cards he is looking up at a screen that tells him what the cards are.

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And how would that work in a brick-and-mortar casino?

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You already know the answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

You are ruining this thread. For once in your life man up and knock it off.

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I disagree that he is ruining this thread.

Block him if you can't handle him, or ignore him if you can't block him.

I happen to agree with much of what blackhole posts, but I'm not going to PM Dan to that effect as if this is some kind of court proceeding.

Grow a pair...that's 2...between the 2 of you you should be able to manage that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

As he deals the cards he is looking up at a screen that tells him what the cards are.

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And how would that work in a brick-and-mortar casino?

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You already know the answer.

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My answer is that it would not work in a live casino, do you agree?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Hi-lo can absolutely beat a pitch game. Is it the best option for them? No. But to say it won't beat them is absurd.

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You will need 3 things. 1.) Deep pen 2.) A generous spread allowance 3.) A pit/EITS that doesn't give a fuck and won't preferential shuffle.

Can you beat them once? Yes. Twice? Maybe Everyday? Nope.

Give me a large enough spread allowance and I could probably beat them with an Ace/Five count. I may have to play everyday and live to be 300 according to sims. The factor not considered is the most important. Time. What is your time worth?

I like my odds as the house with shallow pen, limited spread, and preferential shuffle and/or a pit that says No MAS and spreads the word.

Let's suppose you are right. That the casinos are cheating and your shield of armor is HiLo. What do you or any player stand to gain? Our opponent wins by forfeiting. Scaring the fuck out them or intimidation won't work. Consider how many are already shutting down blackjack tables and replacing them with the game where the big boobed dealer on video says "hey big boy, wanna try me"? Deep pen in pitch games are death traps. So they ban me, stop offering the game, and yet me name is still considered that of a dangerous player in a mid-pen game.

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Originally Posted by Moses

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Hi-lo can absolutely beat a pitch game. Is it the best option for them? No. But to say it won't beat them is absurd.

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You will need 3 things. 1.) Deep pen 2.) A generous spread allowance 3.) A pit/EITS that doesn't give a fuck and won't preferential shuffle.

Can you beat them once? Yes. Twice? Maybe Everyday? Nope.

Give me a large enough spread allowance and I could probably beat them with an Ace/Five count. I may have to play everyday and live to be 300 according to sims. The factor not considered is the most important. Time. What is your time worth?

I like my odds as the house with shallow pen, limited spread, and preferential shuffle and/or a pit that says No MAS and spreads the word.

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Sure you have to have the right condition. You do for any type of game. But to say it doesn't work at all is fallacious.

As for "what is your time worth." Mine is nothing with counting and spreading at all. We'll walk out of a casino if card counting, on any type of blackjack game, is the last resort.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

Sure you have to have the right condition. .

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Exactly my point. Once you find the right condition you probably also found a trap that was set.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

As for "what is your time worth." Mine is nothing with counting and spreading at all. We'll walk out of a casino if card counting, on any type of blackjack game, is the last resort.

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You lost me. My time is worth a lot. Get in, get paid, get out. Do it again tomorrow. Some may or may not run of out of money. Some may make more than they will ever spend. But one thing is for sure. We all run out of time. It's a proven fact.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

But to say it doesn't work at all is fallacious..

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Simply put, I like their side as opposed to our side of the table in the HiLO scenario. These guys are not idiots. You've got to try something they've never seen before or cannot recognize. So I don't want to invest money and time for such a poultry, if any, return. The profit may not come in your first million hands. Who has time to play 10 million hands?

Alan brought up Roulette but dropped the topic.
I still enjoy discussions about Roulette.
I am sure that not many here are interested in this movie but it has some good Roulette Scenes.
One of the actors who play Maverick on Maverick.

Support Your Local Gunfighter...


They ought to take all the Roulette Dealers out and string em up.
Even if the wheel is straight and it aint!
The house has 8% of the best of it.
Eight Percent!
Anybody plays Roulette ought to have their head examined.
Just take them and lock em up.
They ought to BURN all dem roulette wheels.


4600 Dollars on 23!
Spin It...
22 The Player Loses.

Not a great upload of the movie but it is free:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt6FVgyJFTg

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Originally Posted by Moses

So I don't want to invest money and time for such a poultry, if any, return.

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If your counting cards on a blackjack game, you are earning a "poultry" return, i.e. "chicken scratch." I equate counting to working as a cashier at McDonald's and what we do to being the CFO of McDonald's. I won't use the "salamander" terminology as even I think that's a bit degrading. :cool:

So Nightshifter's statement was more along the lines of what coachbelly thought he meant, not how I interpreted it. Nightshifter thinks that an experienced dealer can shuffle single/double deck as fast or faster than putting the cards in one chamber and taking out the second set of cards from the other.

I will say that based on my experience, that seems incorrect. Not by a lot mind you. Depending on the procedures of different casinos sometimes they don't place the cards directly into the ASM chamber, but do one of those "stripping actions, which basically reverses the order of cards. Sometimes they also take the remaining cards that were not played, maybe 30-40 cards on a double deck, depending on penetration and break up that unplayed slug placing part in different sections of the played cards in the discard rack before placing the decks in the ASM.

Either of these procedures which some places do and others don't only takes 10 seconds. Add 5 seconds for placing the cards in the chamber and retracting the second set and you are talking 15 seconds for ASM vs at least 30 seconds for a fast hand shuffle.

Bottom line, I think his statement in incorrect, but not by much. Anyone disqualifying everything he says because of that is looking for a reason to disqualify what he says. I personally have a couple questions about other things he said, where I say to myself, "hum that doesn't sound right", but I also see some places, and terminology used where I say, this guy is very credible, especially since I have a very good friend that works in the pit that has mirrored some of Nightshifters terminology right down to the term.

But whether or not one finds him credible is everyone's decision to make for themselves. And is the case with everything on this site, I am sure it will go right down AP / anti-AP "party" lines.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by Moses

So I don't want to invest money and time for such a poultry, if any, return.

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If your counting cards on a blackjack game, you are earning a "poultry" return, i.e. "chicken scratch." I equate counting to working as a cashier at McDonald's and what we do to being the CFO of McDonald's. I won't use the "salamander" terminology as even I think that's a bit degrading. :cool:

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I'm not familiar with the salamander terminology. Nothing wrong with being a cashier at McDonalds - guaranteed money. The difference here is our opponent wins by forfeit.

For instance, suppose you invest 30 hours in a week and lose $30K. This is no guarantee you will get in all back the next week. Even if you did, you still invested 60 hours of time over the course of two weeks for zero money. I can make a shitload of money in 60 hours guaranteed or not. Exchanging dollars at a blackjack table is not the answer. Beating them with your mind at their own game is the only answer because you can't win if you're not allowed to play.

@Moses

I just found out about this site called Zen Zone Forum.
According to WoV the site is Anti-Semite or Anti-whatever.
Hate Site according to them.

I noticed you are a member Moses?

I found the site difficult to navigate or I wasn't interested.
I wanted to see some of the posts about this alleged racism, anti whatever.

I did see a thread over there by you that I think you have over here.
Anyways... just curious if that site is as racist as WoV claims?
Figured I would ask you.

blackhole has been kicked from this thread for trolling.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by tableplay

I wrote that there is proof that BJ dealers (and thus casinos) cheat as shown in the YouTube video of live play at an online casino.

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We should acknowledge that the clip posted earlier was created by Mike Morgenstern, so its authenticity could be considered dubious.

But let's assume it's authentic...in the Morgenstern clip it sure looks like the dealer deals a second.

Morgenstern is dealt the second...a 6...then the dealer deals himself an 8.

If he had dealt the cards in proper order, Morgenstern would have received the 8, and the dealer the 6...that's what the clip appears to show.

If the dealer receives a 6, then he must take another card. So we don't know the outcome if the cards would have been dealt properly, since the clip doesn't continue to show the next card dealt from the shoe.

Besides...how does the dealer know the value of the cards he is about to deal if they are face down in a shoe, such that dealing a second is to his advantage?

This was a clip from online play, so we don't really know what else is going on other than what we can see.

Maybe the dealer is somehow being shown the value of the cards in the shoe before they are dealt, or maybe the cards are marked...like with braille or something...so that the dealer can tell by touching them.

But Nightshifter was writing about live casinos...not online casinos.

Does the Morgenstern clip really prove that brick-and-mortar casinos cheat?

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Yes I wrote that casinos cheat. Is an online casino a casino ? Did the dealer deal a 2nd ? Did the dealer beat the player ? I think the answer to all these questions is yes, and that is all I wrote in my posts.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

blackhole has been kicked from this thread for trolling.

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And he's the only one who trolled?

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by coach belly

And how would that work in a brick-and-mortar casino?

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You already know the answer.

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My answer is that it would not work in a live casino, do you agree?

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Not with the cards being shown on a big screen. But I think it could work with something like google eyeglasses.

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Originally Posted by Moses

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by Moses

So I don't want to invest money and time for such a poultry, if any, return.

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If your counting cards on a blackjack game, you are earning a "poultry" return, i.e. "chicken scratch." I equate counting to working as a cashier at McDonald's and what we do to being the CFO of McDonald's. I won't use the "salamander" terminology as even I think that's a bit degrading. :cool:

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I'm not familiar with the salamander terminology. Nothing wrong with being a cashier at McDonalds - guaranteed money. The difference here is our opponent wins by forfeit.

For instance, suppose you invest 30 hours in a week and lose $30K. This is no guarantee you will get in all back the next week. Even if you did, you still invested 60 hours of time over the course of two weeks for zero money. I can make a shitload of money in 60 hours guaranteed or not. Exchanging dollars at a blackjack table is not the answer. Beating them with your mind at their own game is the only answer because you can't win if you're not allowed to play.

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I think jbjb's comment on salamanders refers to James Grosjean's assessment that on the evolutionary scale of blackjack the card counters are the "primordial ooze" and "salamanders." In other words, he's saying there are far superior methods to beating blackjack.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

And he's the only one who trolled?

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I haven't read every post of his but usually he is nothing but Troll.
Not that I believe anything is wrong with that.
I troll plenty myself.
However, can he post up some information that is useful from time to time?
It is obvious that he doesn't want to give away anything gambling related but is their anything he is willing to give away in a respectful manner?
Tough to be Trolling all the time but we have a few members that seem capable.

It seems to me he's being singled out and punished for challenging what he considers to be false claims. Mickeycrimm, Moses, you Monet and everyone else on this forum who has challenged my report that I saw a random shooter roll 18 yos in a row has done the same thing. Kewlj and many others have challenged Rob Singer's claims, as I have at certain times.

Everyone on this forum has challenged someone else, with the exception of a few members who only come here rarely to ask a question.

If Dan is going to single anyone out why doesn't he single out those who use foul language, and those who make racist comments? Yes, this includes Rob Singer but there are others as well. Even I used foul language in the past.

Dan claims to be a free speech advocate except free speech doesn't apply to blackhole.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

It seems to me he's being singled out and punished for challenging what he considers to be false claims. Mickeycrimm, Moses, you Monet and everyone else on this forum who has challenged my report that I saw a random shooter roll 18 yos in a row has done the same thing.

If Dan is going to single anyone out why doesn't he single put those who use foul language, and those who make racist comments? Yes, this includes Rob Singer but there are others as well. Even I used foul language in the past.

Dan claims to be a free speech advocate except free speech doesn't apply to blackhole.

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I think someone has to complain about the trolling in a PM to Dan Druff.
If nobody is running to the Owner and complaining nothing will happen.
It is true that I have trolled you and continue to troll you.
I think the difference is that members like blackhole never give up on it.
They troll every thread and every post.
Even though I have trolled and used abusive language I don't think I constantly do it without actually making contributions to the forum.
I will make an effort to troll you less.
Shalom! (שלום)

You call it trolling. I call it "challenging" what Blackhole does.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

You call it trolling. I call it "challenging" what Blackhole does.

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Actually I never complained about it one time.
I never complained about blackhole no matter what he said about me or anyone else.
I don't actually call it trolling.
I don't even like that word.
However words that I don't like such as AP, Trolling or Multi-Carding seem to be commonplace online.
Gotta roll with the tide so to speak.
One word I hardly ever use is Luck... I hate that four letter word!
Dan Druff called it trolling and kicked him from the thread for Trolling.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

blackhole has been kicked from this thread for trolling.

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Edit: I am not sure anyone has actually believed or stated that they believe your 18 Yos In a Row claim.
I know for a fact Dan Druff broke down the math on it and said it did not happen.
When I seen the math that he proved on it I have to admit he made a very strong case that it was impossible without some sort of cheating.
My beef with the story is how everyone was just watching Yo after Yo in a Row and it was like nothing amazing was happening.
No Big Deal.
Nobody starting to get emotional about it.
That is very tough to swallow let alone the mathematical side of it.
Even with Mission146 playing devils advocate with the scenario of all numbers being able to go 18 in a row...
He explained that he did not believe the tale.
The other day I asked if you believed in Jehovah and if you ever saw him.
No answer which is fine but in my mind Jehovah is more mathematically possible compared to your story of the 18 yos.