Advantage play at NJ online casinos involving Ocean Magic machine results in some casinos holding up withdrawals

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

They beat the NJ online casinos again:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx

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Nice entertaining story.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

They beat the NJ online casinos again:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx

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And your comment before about the online games having a higher payback was accurate.

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Originally Posted by kuma

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

They beat the NJ online casinos again:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx

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And your comment before about the online games having a higher payback was accurate.

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That was the only way it was beatable

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Originally Posted by kuma

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

They beat the NJ online casinos again:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TU3EOJvnKwhgTx

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And your comment before about the online games having a higher payback was accurate.

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As was his comment about the much lower overhead of online casinos.

Thanks for the compliments but I learned the online OM game was 94.2% before posting about higher online payback here. That was the missing piece in the puzzle of why it was beatable where playing that configuration in a casino is not.

BTW, On GWAE 21 Mar 2019, Shack recommended that for OM's in the casinos with around 85% payback the lone bubbles in the 1st and 2nd columns are advantage. I for one am not taking that advice. I tracked it enough to know I was getting only about an 80% return.

Oh, and another thing. Have you ever seen Ocean Magic Mystery Progressives (must hits) before? Well here they are. Betting range is $4 to $200:

Mickey I have a question if you don't mind.

If you were to take a game like Golden Egypt and compare a 95% RTP version with an 85% RTP version, where do you think the reduced RTP would come from? The basic reel probabilities (i.e. low value symbols would become more common), lowered bonus round probability? Lowered gold frequency? Or is it just whatever hodgepodge IGT comes up with?

I'm wondering because I'd like to know how to adapt data taken from a high RTP machine to a lower RTP machine, if that can be done reliably.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Mickey I have a question if you don't mind.

If you were to take a game like Golden Egypt and compare a 95% RTP version with an 85% RTP version, where do you think the reduced RTP would come from? The basic reel probabilities (i.e. low value symbols would become more common), lowered bonus round probability? Lowered gold frequency? Or is it just whatever hodgepodge IGT comes up with?

I'm wondering because I'd like to know how to adapt data taken from a high RTP machine to a lower RTP machine, if that can be done reliably.

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With a game like GE I would say just lengthen out the probability of the coins landing in the screen. With Ocean Magic lengthen out the probability of bubbles appearing.

Thanks, I'll try that.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

Mickey I have a question if you don't mind.

If you were to take a game like Golden Egypt and compare a 95% RTP version with an 85% RTP version, where do you think the reduced RTP would come from? The basic reel probabilities (i.e. low value symbols would become more common), lowered bonus round probability? Lowered gold frequency? Or is it just whatever hodgepodge IGT comes up with?

I'm wondering because I'd like to know how to adapt data taken from a high RTP machine to a lower RTP machine, if that can be done reliably.

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I have evidence that IGT makes games where the payback percentage is not the same for each bet level. The screenshot below is a partial of an IGT par sheet. You will see at the top that the game has a 10.499% hold. But that's only if you are max betting. The payback is lower on the lessor bet levels. I'm not at liberty to divulge the name of this game.

Now take a look at this screenshot. The reset values for the free game meters are different. The more you bet the higher the reset values. My guess is the game has the exact same odds at every bet level on everything you can hit but you get more free games the higher you bet. I think this is how IGT is adjusting the payback percentage for each bet level.

I wonder if Buffalo Diamond is designed so the average meter is the same across all denominations, but the higher the denomination the more frequently you hit (which is then offset by the higher reset levels).

As you know in the wheel mode the lower denominations have some low value free spins awards as well as the progressive awards, whereas max bet has only progressive awards.


Edit - Looking at the numbers you posted I don't think my suggestion is correct because the green resets are too close to each other to offset all those low value awards you get at the lower denominations.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

I wonder if Buffalo Diamond is designed so the average meter is the same across all denominations, but the higher the denomination the more frequently you hit (which is then offset by the higher reset levels).

As you know in the wheel mode the lower denominations have some low value free spins awards as well as the progressive awards, whereas max bet has only progressive awards.


Edit - Looking at the numbers you posted I don't think my suggestion is correct because the green resets are too close to each other to offset all those low value awards you get at the lower denominations.

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I left Montana a few days ago to go and analyze Buffalo Diamonds. That post I made about getting the handpays the last couple days? Buffalo Diamonds. I'm just bouncing around from seat to seat as the ploppies leave the plays. The bank is getting a lot of action. All I've had so far is 75 and 160 plays. Biggest hit so far is 152 games at 4X on the 160 level. Racked up $1600. Haven't had a 400 play yet so can't comment on it.

The hired help is getting real familiar with me because anything over $499.99 is a handpay.

I'm supposed to be taking a nap and go back down later but can't get off this frickin' site.

A few weeks ago I saw a 13/82/33 at I believe 1.60 but was advised to keep walking by a more knowledgeable machine player.... I'm not too sure about that now.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

A few weeks ago I saw a 13/82/33 at I believe 1.60 but was advised to keep walking by a more knowledgeable machine player.... I'm not too sure about that now.

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I'm still collecting stats and crunching numbers but if that 82 is not playable then Buffalo Diamonds can't be beat.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I deleted a bunch of troll posts and kicked coach, Rob, and blackhole from the thread.

This is a good thread, don’t ruin it.

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Not Friends at all nope lol

Rats and frauds o my

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Originally Posted by blackhole

It looks like a couple AP’s might have made some serious cash on this play. Apparently, 900K total was withdrawn from all 13 casinos from all the AP’s involved.

Yet, how much of that 900K total withdrawal (of which only 400K has been paid so far) is actual profit?

Max says across all casinos and mathematically speaking the play could be worth 80K to 100K after playing all the denominations That’s 80 spins per site. If their playing max spins at 3K per spin, that’s risking $240,000.00 thousand dollars per site. That’s a quarter of a million dollars per site. If the AP bricks out like he admits many did on his first attempt he moves on to the next site. If he bricks out 3 more times, he’s down a million. If he bricks out on all 13 sites, he’s down 3.2 million dollars. LOL

Max admitted he got lucky on the first site and withdrew 220K. But he never spoke about what happened over the remaining 12 sites. He posts only 2 pictures in the article. One of the starting state and one when he’s up over 200K.

So, all the alleged forum AP’s want to say “see, we told you so” but all the facts are not available. Max said all his friends flew in to play the different sites. So, give me the total of bet in before you declare that 900K withdrawal was all profit. Like Max, were 3 or 4 AP’s the total of winners who withdrew? Were there like 15/20/30 big time AP losers? You’re talking huge risks. Even though the math says it’s good, there’s still one factor: you still have to win. This isn’t about results over 15 years or long term. You need instant results over 80 spins and then it’s over. Unless of course you have a couple more million you want to risk, you could take another 12 shots at it.

Let’s also remember that the site reporting this is named “New Jersey Online Gambling” a site that promotes gambling at New Jersey online casinos. I’m sure there is a reason the article only gives half the actual facts. They certainly wouldn’t want to brag how the casino was the big winner here and how only a couple of people got lucky like Max said. They want to convince everyone how easy it is to beat the casinos. LOL

Post how many AP’s actually played and amount they risked. Then post how many actually won. My guess at these huge numbers much more was lost than won. The only reason the casinos are holding back the rest is maybe they could get away with keeping it and add even more to their coffers.

You would think with all the experts here they would ask about the unknown facts before jumping on the stick it in your face wagon. Just more proof that alleged self-proclaimed forum AP's are just that.

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Most true statement.

Shits not even that impressive. Boring actually

Black hole banned for speaking the truth ?

I’m calling in soon to discuss. Maybe we need a fraud alert investigation.

Lol at this weak ass shit. More respect for the grinders running laps then this

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Originally Posted by Advantageplay

Alan, not looking to argue, but I have numerous contacts at igt and have been in contact to consult for both a table games company, 2 slot manufacturers and a few cash is previously.

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More narc shit

Lol


People do what they need to do to make money when they are Broke


Don’t ever talk about being the greatest again.

I let more pickups go then you made in a lifetime.

The greatest lmfao

Fraudulent

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by blackhole

It looks like a couple AP’s might have made some serious cash on this play. Apparently, 900K total was withdrawn from all 13 casinos from all the AP’s involved.

Yet, how much of that 900K total withdrawal (of which only 400K has been paid so far) is actual profit?

Max says across all casinos and mathematically speaking the play could be worth 80K to 100K after playing all the denominations That’s 80 spins per site. If their playing max spins at 3K per spin, that’s risking $240,000.00 thousand dollars per site. That’s a quarter of a million dollars per site. If the AP bricks out like he admits many did on his first attempt he moves on to the next site. If he bricks out 3 more times, he’s down a million. If he bricks out on all 13 sites, he’s down 3.2 million dollars. LOL

Max admitted he got lucky on the first site and withdrew 220K. But he never spoke about what happened over the remaining 12 sites. He posts only 2 pictures in the article. One of the starting state and one when he’s up over 200K.

So, all the alleged forum AP’s want to say “see, we told you so” but all the facts are not available. Max said all his friends flew in to play the different sites. So, give me the total of bet in before you declare that 900K withdrawal was all profit. Like Max, were 3 or 4 AP’s the total of winners who withdrew? Were there like 15/20/30 big time AP losers? You’re talking huge risks. Even though the math says it’s good, there’s still one factor: you still have to win. This isn’t about results over 15 years or long term. You need instant results over 80 spins and then it’s over. Unless of course you have a couple more million you want to risk, you could take another 12 shots at it.

Let’s also remember that the site reporting this is named “New Jersey Online Gambling” a site that promotes gambling at New Jersey online casinos. I’m sure there is a reason the article only gives half the actual facts. They certainly wouldn’t want to brag how the casino was the big winner here and how only a couple of people got lucky like Max said. They want to convince everyone how easy it is to beat the casinos. LOL

Post how many AP’s actually played and amount they risked. Then post how many actually won. My guess at these huge numbers much more was lost than won. The only reason the casinos are holding back the rest is maybe they could get away with keeping it and add even more to their coffers.

You would think with all the experts here they would ask about the unknown facts before jumping on the stick it in your face wagon. Just more proof that alleged self-proclaimed forum AP's are just that.

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Most true statement.

Shits not even that impressive. Boring actually

Black hole banned for speaking the truth ?

I’m calling in soon to discuss. Maybe we need a fraud alert investigation.

Lol at this weak ass shit. More respect for the grinders running laps then this

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Blackhole made dozens of posts straight up calling AP's liars about beating casinos. But thats not what he was banned for. He was banned for continually insulting Druff. Druff gave him a lot of chances but blackhole wouldn't clean it up.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by blackhole

It looks like a couple AP’s might have made some serious cash on this play. Apparently, 900K total was withdrawn from all 13 casinos from all the AP’s involved.

Yet, how much of that 900K total withdrawal (of which only 400K has been paid so far) is actual profit?

Max says across all casinos and mathematically speaking the play could be worth 80K to 100K after playing all the denominations That’s 80 spins per site. If their playing max spins at 3K per spin, that’s risking $240,000.00 thousand dollars per site. That’s a quarter of a million dollars per site. If the AP bricks out like he admits many did on his first attempt he moves on to the next site. If he bricks out 3 more times, he’s down a million. If he bricks out on all 13 sites, he’s down 3.2 million dollars. LOL

Max admitted he got lucky on the first site and withdrew 220K. But he never spoke about what happened over the remaining 12 sites. He posts only 2 pictures in the article. One of the starting state and one when he’s up over 200K.

So, all the alleged forum AP’s want to say “see, we told you so” but all the facts are not available. Max said all his friends flew in to play the different sites. So, give me the total of bet in before you declare that 900K withdrawal was all profit. Like Max, were 3 or 4 AP’s the total of winners who withdrew? Were there like 15/20/30 big time AP losers? You’re talking huge risks. Even though the math says it’s good, there’s still one factor: you still have to win. This isn’t about results over 15 years or long term. You need instant results over 80 spins and then it’s over. Unless of course you have a couple more million you want to risk, you could take another 12 shots at it.

Let’s also remember that the site reporting this is named “New Jersey Online Gambling” a site that promotes gambling at New Jersey online casinos. I’m sure there is a reason the article only gives half the actual facts. They certainly wouldn’t want to brag how the casino was the big winner here and how only a couple of people got lucky like Max said. They want to convince everyone how easy it is to beat the casinos. LOL

Post how many AP’s actually played and amount they risked. Then post how many actually won. My guess at these huge numbers much more was lost than won. The only reason the casinos are holding back the rest is maybe they could get away with keeping it and add even more to their coffers.

You would think with all the experts here they would ask about the unknown facts before jumping on the stick it in your face wagon. Just more proof that alleged self-proclaimed forum AP's are just that.

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Most true statement.

Shits not even that impressive. Boring actually

Black hole banned for speaking the truth ?

I’m calling in soon to discuss. Maybe we need a fraud alert investigation.

Lol at this weak ass shit. More respect for the grinders running laps then this

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Blackhole made dozens of posts straight up calling AP's liars about beating casinos. But thats not what he was banned for. He was banned for continually insulting Druff. Druff gave him a lot of chances but blackhole wouldn't clean it up.

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Well when everyone is connected to the con they got to watch Their back. The new machine club pro website is another conman endeavor. The guy just keeps going with all the secret help lol

Everyone thinks they are in a secret society. Cum guzzling society Is all I see. Burners sims and using other peoples internet and data. I generally like to spoof someone’s internet who lives close to mark. That gets em thinking. These guys are so fraudulent they are basically criminals. Not real APs