Oh, How Much Better Can This Get?

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

No, I'm not comparing 8 years to 2 years. Read the article again. It compares the first 645 days of each presidency. If you want to compare 8 years to 2 years it would be 182% for Obama to 29% for Trump.

I will agree with you on one point, and that is the market was bottoming when Obama came into office, but don't say the market has done better under Trump than Obama because it is not true.

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"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

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And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

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And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

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And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

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And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

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Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

Mickey, I do not fit the description of any of the groups that you mention cobbling together. I would really like to support either party that was able to be fiscally responsible and conservative. However, every time the republicans have a chance to be fiscally responsible, they go to trickle down economics and the end result has never been good for this country. As a younger voter I tended to vote republican just as often as democratic. Now in my 60's I normally hold my nose and vote straight democrat. Not because I support all of the various planks that represent the core beliefs of their party but because I abhor the leadership and good ole boy network that has further taken a stranglehold of the republican party since I first started voting more than 40 years ago. I abhor all of the self serving conservatards that have shaped their direction such as Gingrich, Cheney, both the Bushes, and more recently Ryan, McConnell and Trump.

When Trump first began running for president I briefly considered voting for him. It did not take me long to see what a loud mouth, narcissistic asshole he was. All of the lies and tweets and disparaging remarks towards others only made it worse. Once he took office it quickly became evident that he was only interested in being president of and reflecting the beliefs of the 30 percent core base that put him there and could care less about the other 70 percent. His loyalties to Putin and the Korean dictator, and desire to destroy our relationships with our allies overseas has further eroded what little confidence I may have had in him.

And then layered on top of that is lies on top of lies on top of lies. Any point of view that does not support his is labeled by him and his proponents as fake news. If he is reelected next year I am sure myself and my family will live through it but I am convinced now more than ever that four more years of Donald J Trump will do much more damage to our country than any good it may do.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

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Geez, is there anybody that really believes the popular vote will be in question? :confused:

The democrats will win the popular vote, no matter who the candidate and probably by more than 2016 which was what 3 million after all the votes were counted. :confused:

The only thing in question, in my mind is if Trump can patch together just enough to thread the needle to a slim electoral college victory, mirroring 2016.

I don't bet online. I don't trust any online sites. Nevada doesn't take bets on politics and I probably wouldn't be crazy about tying up funds for 15 months anyway. But if I was going to bet on the 2020 election, I would bet on the democrats. I am talking strictly bet, not who I favor. Frankly, I haven't found anyone among the democrats I could vote for and don't care for any Democratic positions I have heard so far. And if reparations is part of the democratic platform, I will not only not vote for a democrat this time, but will never again consider a democrat for anything. I am strongly against paying people for something that happened hundreds of years ago. Nobody a live today is responsible for that shitty chapter of our history. It is just a thinly veiled way of trying to buy the support of the blacks.

Now just as a political junkie, no super partisan like some here :rolleyes:, I see real trouble on the horizon for the republicans and TRump in 2020 and reaching far beyond.

Texas is an immediate danger that could alter things for a very long time. The Latino population is growing super fast. Projections now say that there will be more Latino voters by 2022 than white voters in Texas. For a while they have been saying this was coming, and Trump seems to have feuled a high voter registration of Latinos in the last year and it now looks like it will be sooner than expected. This is real bad news for Republicans far beyond 2020. If Texas flips, whether 2020, or 2024 or when ever the Republicans are going to have to "find" a whole lot of electoral votes to make up for that to be competitive. I have no idea where?

More specific to 2020, Trump is down big time in support for one key group. White suburban women. He is down all over with that group from 2016 levels, but Texas the drop off is severe. He is down about 25 points. White suburban women have different priorities. And polling indicates this group in particular is extremely turned off by separations of families and the whole children in cages situation. And the women in Texas have seen that constantly being in their own backyard. I don't know how Trump turns that around. :confused:

One other real bad sign for Trump is that traditionally and incumbent, president, senator, who has support of 46% or less in the polls, loses like 99% of the time. Even if they are winning like 46% to 40% with a bunch of undecided (which Trump isn't). The common wisdom is that voters know who the incumbent is, and none more so that Trump. If they know him/her and their policies and aren't supporting then, they aren't going to break for them at the end. Traditionally, undecided break against an incumbent that is at 46% or lower. 46% is the key number. I don't know why. Trump is well below 46% and has been every single day of his presidency.

But there are two possible saving graces for Trump. One would be a fairly strong third candidate. Not a 1 or 2% candidate, but someone that gets 5-6%. That could allow someone like trump that has 45-46% support enough to thread that electoral college needle, if things fall JUST right.

The second thing that could change and likely will change some, is there is no democratic candidate right now. Polls are just a reflection of Trump. Even polls showing a specific matchup like Biden vs Trump. At this point, it is just a reflection of Trumps unpopularity. I wouldn't put much meaning in that until someone is officially the democratic candidate. I mean suppose a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren becomes the democratic candidate. All of the sudden you might have some folks that don't approve of Trump finding they like Bernie or Liz even less. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

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And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

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Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

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Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Mickey, I do not fit the description of any of the groups that you mention cobbling together. I would really like to support either party that was able to be fiscally responsible and conservative. However, every time the republicans have a chance to be fiscally responsible, they go to trickle down economics and the end result has never been good for this country. As a younger voter I tended to vote republican just as often as democratic. Now in my 60's I normally hold my nose and vote straight democrat. Not because I support all of the various planks that represent the core beliefs of their party but because I abhor the leadership and good ole boy network that has further taken a stranglehold of the republican party since I first started voting more than 40 years ago. I abhor all of the self serving conservatards that have shaped their direction such as Gingrich, Cheney, both the Bushes, and more recently Ryan, McConnell and Trump.

When Trump first began running for president I briefly considered voting for him. It did not take me long to see what a loud mouth, narcissistic asshole he was. All of the lies and tweets and disparaging remarks towards others only made it worse. Once he took office it quickly became evident that he was only interested in being president of and reflecting the beliefs of the 30 percent core base that put him there and could care less about the other 70 percent. His loyalties to Putin and the Korean dictator, and desire to destroy our relationships with our allies overseas has further eroded what little confidence I may have had in him.

And then layered on top of that is lies on top of lies on top of lies. Any point of view that does not support his is labeled by him and his proponents as fake news. If he is reelected next year I am sure myself and my family will live through it but I am convinced now more than ever that four more years of Donald J Trump will do much more damage to our country than any good it may do.

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I used to vote straight democrat until the party shifted to far to the left. My extended family did the same. I'm not tied to the economy so I use them as the barometer of what is going on in the country. They're mostly blue collar workers. They had it pretty tough in the Obama years, high unemployment, jobs going overseas, stagnant wages, no pay raises, no upward mobility and the added burden of much high health care premiums.

But then something funny happened. Hillary lost the election. The next day the stock market took off like a rocket. Trump cut taxes and regulations. The market continued to soar. The corporations brought in trillions of dollars sitting in overseas banks because they wouldn't pay the high tax rate under Obama. The market continued to soar until it reached 26,000 and the overall economy going gangbusters. My family told me about pay raises, bonuses and more take home pay. They're a pretty happy lot right now.

I'm happy for them but at the same time pessimistic about their future. They're just hard working, god fearing, Americans that want to work and provide for themselves and their loved ones. I'm pessimistic for them because of the relentless assault by socialists to fundamentally change this country into everyone being dependent on the state. With a growing welfare state, and immigration going the way it is, I think the have-nots will eventually overtake the have's and make that happen. And it will sink my family like a stone. Hopefully, I'll be dead by then and won't have to watch it happen.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

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Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

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Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

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LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

Do you have any real news, redietz? Why do you think I’m pessimistic about Trumps chances? Throw in google, Facebook and Twitter manipulations which psychologists are saying effects voters. And something even more diabolical may occur. This latest stock market dip could just be a dry run. Globalists may attempt to crash the economy just before the election. A short term loss for them just to get rid of Trump.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

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Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

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LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

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Sounds like you have the recipe for a Banana Republic and the end of capitalism as we currently know it.

https://youtu.be/5Btb8gLy3-E
I knew if I waited long enough!!

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Mickey, I do not fit the description of any of the groups that you mention cobbling together. I would really like to support either party that was able to be fiscally responsible and conservative. However, every time the republicans have a chance to be fiscally responsible, they go to trickle down economics and the end result has never been good for this country. As a younger voter I tended to vote republican just as often as democratic. Now in my 60's I normally hold my nose and vote straight democrat. Not because I support all of the various planks that represent the core beliefs of their party but because I abhor the leadership and good ole boy network that has further taken a stranglehold of the republican party since I first started voting more than 40 years ago. I abhor all of the self serving conservatards that have shaped their direction such as Gingrich, Cheney, both the Bushes, and more recently Ryan, McConnell and Trump.

When Trump first began running for president I briefly considered voting for him. It did not take me long to see what a loud mouth, narcissistic asshole he was. All of the lies and tweets and disparaging remarks towards others only made it worse. Once he took office it quickly became evident that he was only interested in being president of and reflecting the beliefs of the 30 percent core base that put him there and could care less about the other 70 percent. His loyalties to Putin and the Korean dictator, and desire to destroy our relationships with our allies overseas has further eroded what little confidence I may have had in him.

And then layered on top of that is lies on top of lies on top of lies. Any point of view that does not support his is labeled by him and his proponents as fake news. If he is reelected next year I am sure myself and my family will live through it but I am convinced now more than ever that four more years of Donald J Trump will do much more damage to our country than any good it may do.

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Just curious. What damage to the country are you most afraid of if Trump is re-elected?
If it’s debt and deficits I share your concern, but I also don’t think any of the present democrat candidates would do anything to slow that down. They have too many free stuff promises. They could raise taxes dramatically but that would just send the economy back into recession while still running deficits.
So, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, what are you most worried about if Trump gets another 4 years?

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Originally Posted by dannyj

Just curious. What damage to the country are you most afraid of if Trump is re-elected?
If it’s debt and deficits I share your concern, but I also don’t think any of the present democrat candidates would do anything to slow that down. They have too many free stuff promises. They could raise taxes dramatically but that would just send the economy back into recession while still running deficits.
So, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, what are you most worried about if Trump gets another 4 years?

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Trump is a moron. If you don't believe me just ask his former Secretary of State. I really do fear the most of anything is he will get us into another war, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him cross the line and use nukes.

Danny, debt and deficits are sure to continue to get worse if Trump gets reelected. My wife and I paid twice as much in taxes as we did before the top one tenth of one percent tax cut went into effect. Much of ours is because my wife gets a lot of hand pays each year and the ability to offset on our tax return was largely eliminated making us have to pay tax on the majority of her w2g's. Like most people that go to the casino overall we lose more than we win most but that does not matter to the IRS in determining gambling wins and losses. Much of the excess $1 trillion of debt that has been created during Trump's tenure has to do with excess spending but I think that much of it has to do with the top tax payers contributing less in revenues. It's the same thing all over again promised when the r's were able to take control of all three branches of government.

We need someone that can work with both d's and r's and get stuff done and cut spending. I did not vote for Trump but I was hopeful that his partisanship to his 30% would give way to willingness to work with the congress and the senate to pass common sense measures that would be good for everyone. And sadly, looking at his body of work, as long as he remains in office I do not expect anything to change.

More insults. More snake oil salesmanship. More adoration of Putin and falling in love with the Korean dictator. More obsessing over building a wall and blaming all of our social problems on people of color. More taking credit for good will and accomplishments that were actually achieved by others. More blaming others for his own ineptness and self-created problems. More undermining democracy by attacking the media for keeping us informed and telling us like it is whether we like it or not. These are just some of the underlying habits and beliefs that define Trump's presidency that will lead to further damage to our country if Trump is reelected.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Danny, debt and deficits are sure to continue to get worse if Trump gets reelected. My wife and I paid twice as much in taxes as we did before the top one tenth of one percent tax cut went into effect. Much of ours is because my wife gets a lot of hand pays each year and the ability to offset on our tax return was largely eliminated making us have to pay tax on the majority of her w2g's. Like most people that go to the casino overall we lose more than we win most but that does not matter to the IRS in determining gambling wins and losses. Much of the excess $1 trillion of debt that has been created during Trump's tenure has to do with excess spending but I think that much of it has to do with the top tax payers contributing less in revenues. It's the same thing all over again promised when the r's were able to take control of all three branches of government.

We need someone that can work with both d's and r's and get stuff done and cut spending. I did not vote for Trump but I was hopeful that his partisanship to his 30% would give way to willingness to work with the congress and the senate to pass common sense measures that would be good for everyone. And sadly, looking at his body of work, as long as he remains in office I do not expect anything to change.

More insults. More snake oil salesmanship. More adoration of Putin and falling in love with the Korean dictator. More obsessing over building a wall and blaming all of our social problems on people of color. More taking credit for good will and accomplishments that were actually achieved by others. More blaming others for his own ineptness and self-created problems. More undermining democracy by attacking the media for keeping us informed and telling us like it is whether we like it or not. These are just some of the underlying habits and beliefs that define Trump's presidency that will lead to further damage to our country if Trump is reelected.

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Trump didn't have anything to do with the IRS restructuring gambler's taxes. That was all done by IRS deep state who are not fans of Trump.

You and the lefties are Putin's bitches. You are doing exactly what he was after....sowing discord in American politics. I absolutely don't buy the lefty argument that it's only Trump. That if he were gone everything would be honky dory. The lefties and mainstream media treated Reagon, Bush41 and Bush43 horribly. They've been getting progressively worse. The next Republican president will get blasted even worse than Trump.

The main stream media is giving you the news that ISN'T!!!! All phony fake news.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Danny, debt and deficits are sure to continue to get worse if Trump gets reelected. My wife and I paid twice as much in taxes as we did before the top one tenth of one percent tax cut went into effect. Much of ours is because my wife gets a lot of hand pays each year and the ability to offset on our tax return was largely eliminated making us have to pay tax on the majority of her w2g's. Like most people that go to the casino overall we lose more than we win most but that does not matter to the IRS in determining gambling wins and losses. Much of the excess $1 trillion of debt that has been created during Trump's tenure has to do with excess spending but I think that much of it has to do with the top tax payers contributing less in revenues. It's the same thing all over again promised when the r's were able to take control of all three branches of government.

We need someone that can work with both d's and r's and get stuff done and cut spending. I did not vote for Trump but I was hopeful that his partisanship to his 30% would give way to willingness to work with the congress and the senate to pass common sense measures that would be good for everyone. And sadly, looking at his body of work, as long as he remains in office I do not expect anything to change.

More insults. More snake oil salesmanship. More adoration of Putin and falling in love with the Korean dictator. More obsessing over building a wall and blaming all of our social problems on people of color. More taking credit for good will and accomplishments that were actually achieved by others. More blaming others for his own ineptness and self-created problems. More undermining democracy by attacking the media for keeping us informed and telling us like it is whether we like it or not. These are just some of the underlying habits and beliefs that define Trump's presidency that will lead to further damage to our country if Trump is reelected.

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SMR,
Thanks for the response. While I definitely don’t see things the same way I appreciate your opinion.

Want to drive Trump nuts? Damn, I like it.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/opini...nio/index.html

Mickey, you can sign the petition here.
https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/re...ifth-avenue-in

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Originally Posted by dannyj

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Danny, debt and deficits are sure to continue to get worse if Trump gets reelected. My wife and I paid twice as much in taxes as we did before the top one tenth of one percent tax cut went into effect. Much of ours is because my wife gets a lot of hand pays each year and the ability to offset on our tax return was largely eliminated making us have to pay tax on the majority of her w2g's. Like most people that go to the casino overall we lose more than we win most but that does not matter to the IRS in determining gambling wins and losses. Much of the excess $1 trillion of debt that has been created during Trump's tenure has to do with excess spending but I think that much of it has to do with the top tax payers contributing less in revenues. It's the same thing all over again promised when the r's were able to take control of all three branches of government.

We need someone that can work with both d's and r's and get stuff done and cut spending. I did not vote for Trump but I was hopeful that his partisanship to his 30% would give way to willingness to work with the congress and the senate to pass common sense measures that would be good for everyone. And sadly, looking at his body of work, as long as he remains in office I do not expect anything to change.

More insults. More snake oil salesmanship. More adoration of Putin and falling in love with the Korean dictator. More obsessing over building a wall and blaming all of our social problems on people of color. More taking credit for good will and accomplishments that were actually achieved by others. More blaming others for his own ineptness and self-created problems. More undermining democracy by attacking the media for keeping us informed and telling us like it is whether we like it or not. These are just some of the underlying habits and beliefs that define Trump's presidency that will lead to further damage to our country if Trump is reelected.

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SMR,
Thanks for the response. While I definitely don’t see things the same way I appreciate your opinion.

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Wow, What a classy post dannyj.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

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Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

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LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

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Redietz, this might be the stupidist post you've ever made. You imply I'm against fair elections. GTFO. The "everyone else" I'm referring to is the working class who have taken it up the ass for 30 years while your precious democrats take care of the poor/minorities/gays/immigrants. The working class is sick and tired of no representation. And then that "if you're advocating for something other than a democracy" bullshit. Get the fuck out you fucking buffoon. Or should I say "If you are advocating for a civil war I'm all ears."

PS: Joe Walsh is a wingnut.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

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LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

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Redietz, this might be the stupidist post you've ever made. You imply I'm against fair elections. GTFO. The "everyone else" I'm referring to is the working class who have taken it up the ass for 30 years while your precious democrats take care of the poor/minorities/gays/immigrants. The working class is sick and tired of no representation. And then that "if you're advocating for something other than a democracy" bullshit. Get the fuck out you fucking buffoon. Or should I say "If you are advocating for a civil war I'm all ears."

PS: Joe Walsh is a wingnut.

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You know, mickey, the "working class," which by your definition doesn't include "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities" and socialists, I suppose, evidently doesn't outnumber "everybody else" (according to you). So what's your beef? If they haven't voted their interests, and they're outnumbered, what exactly are you complaining about? You don't like a two party system with nobody catering to the working class? Great -- welcome to the club. You may be a card-carrying communist and not know it.

Meanwhile, mickey aside, here's a column by an author whose book, The Death of Expertise, I loved. He's an international specialist with a Russia focus who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College. Not exactly a wingnut.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...an/2013614001/

I have absolutely no idea how anyone following Trump for 40 years could possibly draw the conclusion he would be a working class champion. It requires you to prioritize what he said for 18 months during the campaign over what actions he took for 35 years. We're talking about 3500 lawsuits against subcontractors or launched by subcontractors because he refused to pay them. It was his standard operating procedure. If that's how you make decisions, okay, more power to you.

Trump was so desperate for loans in the early 90's, he tried to acquire some money from Las Vegas sources. The conversations did not go well. He then began his relationship with Deutsche Bank -- after what most people would consider a last ditch effort.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

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Originally Posted by dannyj

Just curious. What damage to the country are you most afraid of if Trump is re-elected?
If it’s debt and deficits I share your concern, but I also don’t think any of the present democrat candidates would do anything to slow that down. They have too many free stuff promises. They could raise taxes dramatically but that would just send the economy back into recession while still running deficits.
So, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, what are you most worried about if Trump gets another 4 years?

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Trump is a moron. If you don't believe me just ask his former Secretary of State. I really do fear the most of anything is he will get us into another war, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him cross the line and use nukes.

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MWP, this is the same criticism liberals had with Reagon, but it never happened. In fact, the reverse happened. We toppled the Soviet Union without firing a shot. Having a strong military and nukes works.

As far using nukes, this gets a bad rap from liberals. Nukes work and save lives. Look at World War II, those nukes saved hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides, the Japanese and Americans. The nukes were good for both counties.

Here is a little history for you...history that the liberals won’t acknowledge. Japan was defeated but wouldn’t quite, which was taken a toll on our country and theirs. After a couple nukes, Japan got the message and surrendered, saving a lot of Japanese lives.

So you know what, dropping a couple nukes here and there on counties that aren’t behaving might not be such a bad thing. In all seriousness having the compacity to drop nukes when someone gets out of line is why there are less wars today. So here’s a shout out to nukes.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Danny, debt and deficits are sure to continue to get worse if Trump gets reelected. My wife and I paid twice as much in taxes as we did before the top one tenth of one percent tax cut went into effect. Much of ours is because my wife gets a lot of hand pays each year and the ability to offset on our tax return was largely eliminated making us have to pay tax on the majority of her w2g's. Like most people that go to the casino overall we lose more than we win most but that does not matter to the IRS in determining gambling wins and losses. Much of the excess $1 trillion of debt that has been created during Trump's tenure has to do with excess spending but I think that much of it has to do with the top tax payers contributing less in revenues. It's the same thing all over again promised when the r's were able to take control of all three branches of government.

We need someone that can work with both d's and r's and get stuff done and cut spending. I did not vote for Trump but I was hopeful that his partisanship to his 30% would give way to willingness to work with the congress and the senate to pass common sense measures that would be good for everyone. And sadly, looking at his body of work, as long as he remains in office I do not expect anything to change.

More insults. More snake oil salesmanship. More adoration of Putin and falling in love with the Korean dictator. More obsessing over building a wall and blaming all of our social problems on people of color. More taking credit for good will and accomplishments that were actually achieved by others. More blaming others for his own ineptness and self-created problems. More undermining democracy by attacking the media for keeping us informed and telling us like it is whether we like it or not. These are just some of the underlying habits and beliefs that define Trump's presidency that will lead to further damage to our country if Trump is reelected.

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The change in the standard deduction did not eliminate my ability to deduct losses. It just meant that I had to bring back in to my tax calculation all the stuff that I could have just not worried about and taken the new higher standard deduction if I didn't have gambling income and associated losses. But I live in a high tax state where that $10K max on local and state tax payments is not hard to hit. So on MFJ, it's another $14K of deductions before you exceed the standard, which can include charitable donations. At $1200 a pop minimum it's not that many handpays before you're over it.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

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Redietz, this might be the stupidist post you've ever made. You imply I'm against fair elections. GTFO. The "everyone else" I'm referring to is the working class who have taken it up the ass for 30 years while your precious democrats take care of the poor/minorities/gays/immigrants. The working class is sick and tired of no representation. And then that "if you're advocating for something other than a democracy" bullshit. Get the fuck out you fucking buffoon. Or should I say "If you are advocating for a civil war I'm all ears."

PS: Joe Walsh is a wingnut.

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You know, mickey, the "working class," which by your definition doesn't include "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities" and socialists, I suppose, evidently doesn't outnumber "everybody else" (according to you). So what's your beef? If they haven't voted their interests, and they're outnumbered, what exactly are you complaining about? You don't like a two party system with nobody catering to the working class? Great -- welcome to the club. You may be a card-carrying communist and not know it.

Meanwhile, mickey aside, here's a column by an author whose book, The Death of Expertise, I loved. He's an international specialist with a Russia focus who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College. Not exactly a wingnut.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...an/2013614001/

I have absolutely no idea how anyone following Trump for 40 years could possibly draw the conclusion he would be a working class champion. It requires you to prioritize what he said for 18 months during the campaign over what actions he took for 35 years. We're talking about 3500 lawsuits against subcontractors or launched by subcontractors because he refused to pay them. It was his standard operating procedure. If that's how you make decisions, okay, more power to you.

Trump was so desperate for loans in the early 90's, he tried to acquire some money from Las Vegas sources. The conversations did not go well. He then began his relationship with Deutsche Bank -- after what most people would consider a last ditch effort.

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Redietz, you are really going off the deep end here lately. Do you think I give a rats ass about what a TDS Never Trumper has to say? I already studied them assholes. They're bullshit. Nichols is just another wingnut pushing an agenda. Then you come up with the weirdest shit "40 years Trump didn't do anything to show he's a working class champion." WTF? Oh, thats right, you're a far left TDS socialist. It ain't that 40 years. It's what he campaigned on and followed through on.

Seal the border
Cut taxes
Cut regulations
Create jobs
Tariffs on goods of the companies that move out of US
Repeal Obamacare

That's what makes him a working class champion. And he's gotten most of it done. He's still plugging away on getting the border sealed, though the asshole dems fight him every step of the way. Dems are phony hypocrites because they used to be for sealing the border until it became a Trump cause. He couldn't repeal Obamacare because of traitor John McCain who stabbed the working class in the back just to get Trump. But he did get rid of the individual mandate.

There's another thing I like about Trump. For decades you lefties have had it your way with the name calling. Calling conservatives racists, fascists, nazis and a host of other viscious names. Bush43, McCain, Romney were all called that by you lefty trolls. No pushback. They didn't say jackshit back. Now comes someone, Donald Trump, that pushes back. Calls you unscrupulous lefty, socialist punks what you are, SLIMEBALLS!!!

And you lefties go into convulsions over it. "Woe is me!!! Woe is me!!! Boohoo!!! Boohoo!!! Trump called me a name!!! He can't do that!!! I'm a lefty!!! I have a right to call him names!!! He doesn't have a right to call me names!!!! He's!!!! He's!!! He's a moron!!!! Yeah, thats it!!! He's an idiot!!! Thats the ticket!!!! Trump has to go!!! Trump has to go!!! He can't call me names!!! Where's my safe space?"

That's why you lefties detest Trump. He pushes back on you name calling socialist idiots and you can't stand it. Its been a pleasure watching you lefties have to take a dose of your own medicine. And it's been an orgasmic pleasure watching you lefties squeal like pigs over it. A bunch of banshee chickens. Squak!!! Squak!!! Squak!! LMAO at you sissified punks.

[QUOTE=mickeycrimm;91646][QUOTE=redietz;91607]

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

That's why you lefties detest Trump. He pushes back on you name calling socialist idiots and you can't stand it. Its been a pleasure watching you lefties have to take a dose of your own medicine. And it's been an orgasmic pleasure watching you lefties squeal like pigs over it. A bunch of banshee chickens. Squak!!! Squak!!! Squak!! LMAO at you sissified punks.

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It is amazing how you frame this guy as some strong tough guy. He's basically a bully. Not all of his policies are horrible, but as a leader the guy is horrible. I barely pay attention to what the early stage dementia mother fucker says these days. Yea, those who detest Trump are the "sissified punks" because they don't idolize a grown man on a level that is a bit <ahem> embarrassing. Who do you say this shit for?

[QUOTE=accountinquestion;91671][QUOTE=mickeycrimm;91646]

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

That's why you lefties detest Trump. He pushes back on you name calling socialist idiots and you can't stand it. Its been a pleasure watching you lefties have to take a dose of your own medicine. And it's been an orgasmic pleasure watching you lefties squeal like pigs over it. A bunch of banshee chickens. Squak!!! Squak!!! Squak!! LMAO at you sissified punks.

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It is amazing how you frame this guy as some strong tough guy. He's basically a bully. Not all of his policies are horrible, but as a leader the guy is horrible. I barely pay attention to what the early stage dementia mother fucker says these days. Yea, those who detest Trump are the "sissified punks" because they don't idolize a grown man on a level that is a bit <ahem> embarrassing. Who do you say this shit for?

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A "strong tough guy" in Washington is anyone who isn't intimidated by lefty loons' hypocrisy and gives better than he gets. And while half the country appreciates this "tough guy" for his policies and for his not backing down from the constant lies, conspiracy theory hoaxes, and whiny "racism" claims of the liberals, the other half has a bunch of Hollywood jealous nut jobs along with an absurd collection of foreigners, illegals, minorities, and queers....basically, those who don't really count.

He wins just about everything that's important. Why the dems are clinging onto another wet dream against this highly intelligent, charismatic and true-to-his-word guy, is the right wonder of the modern world. Unless, of course, you throw in Epstein's picture of pervert Bill Clinton in a blue dress with red pumps. How proud you people must be.

I actually like Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton on the other hand, I think she's a terrible person. Unfortunately, I think she now wears the Dyke pants in that family.

The left: trump is a moron! He’s a racist! He’s a fascist! He’s a nazi!

Trump: the left wing and mainstream media are a bunch of looney tunes!

The left: trump shouldn’t use such divisive rhetoric!

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The left: trump is a moron! He’s a racist! He’s a fascist! He’s a nazi!

Trump: the left wing and mainstream media are a bunch of looney tunes!

The left: trump shouldn’t use such divisive rhetoric!

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Healthcare was mandated under Obama (you must pay for other peoples health care !!) - a nazi/fascist if there ever was one.

Someone explain this one to me. My wife suddenly gets deathly ill, can't hold anything down and says she feels horrible. We go to the emergency room where they determine she needs transfusion for stomach virus. Our insurance is charged $8,000 and we're left with $400 out of our pockets- and oh, yeah- there was someone there while she was being taken care of to find out how we'd pay! We were charged $900 EACH for two rooms- I guess one must have been the xray room where she spent two minutes. To make a long story short, our physician said yeah, if it had been during the day for an office visit, our bill would have been $200. Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy? Reminds me of the epi pen guy who went from $14 to $400.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Healthcare was mandated under Obama (you must pay for other peoples health care !!) - a nazi/fascist if there ever was one.

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The thing about healthcare premiums is they are not graduated according to income like the income tax. The middle class is vastly larger in population than the upper class. That means the middle class is footing the bill for the healthcare of the poor.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The left: trump is a moron! He’s a racist! He’s a fascist! He’s a nazi!

Trump: the left wing and mainstream media are a bunch of looney tunes!

The left: trump shouldn’t use such divisive rhetoric!

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Healthcare was mandated under Obama (you must pay for other peoples health care !!) - a nazi/fascist if there ever was one.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Someone explain this one to me. My wife suddenly gets deathly ill, can't hold anything down and says she feels horrible. We go to the emergency room where they determine she needs transfusion for stomach virus. Our insurance is charged $8,000 and we're left with $400 out of our pockets- and oh, yeah- there was someone there while she was being taken care of to find out how we'd pay! We were charged $900 EACH for two rooms- I guess one must have been the xray room where she spent two minutes. To make a long story short, our physician said yeah, if it had been during the day for an office visit, our bill would have been $200. Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy? Reminds me of the epi pen guy who went from $14 to $400.

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The answer is the great short post # 107 by tableplay right above yours.


The simple deduction is that the haves have to pay for the have nots. Now you must realize that you failed miserably the requirements for being a far left nut job. As it is not enough to simply pay for others health care you must be appreciative "be happy" that you are doing your fair share.

I've met a lot of veterans in the bars in Helena, Montana. From old veterans whose health is going bad to young guys that were shot up in Iraq or Afghanistan. And I've learned things from them. There aren't any great VA hospitals. It's just that some are better than others. The one in Helena is known as one of the better ones. Consequently, there is an inordinate amount of veterans living in Helena. One of the things they told me about was the undesirable list the VA maintains. This list is for veterans who are deemed to disruptive to provide healthcare for. They are excluded from healthcare services. If you complain to much about the long wait times or shoddy healthcare you can find yourself on the list.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Someone explain this one to me. My wife suddenly gets deathly ill, can't hold anything down and says she feels horrible. We go to the emergency room where they determine she needs transfusion for stomach virus. Our insurance is charged $8,000 and we're left with $400 out of our pockets- and oh, yeah- there was someone there while she was being taken care of to find out how we'd pay! We were charged $900 EACH for two rooms- I guess one must have been the xray room where she spent two minutes. To make a long story short, our physician said yeah, if it had been during the day for an office visit, our bill would have been $200. Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy? Reminds me of the epi pen guy who went from $14 to $400.

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Go to a walk in next time.

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Originally Posted by quahaug

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Someone explain this one to me. My wife suddenly gets deathly ill, can't hold anything down and says she feels horrible. We go to the emergency room where they determine she needs transfusion for stomach virus. Our insurance is charged $8,000 and we're left with $400 out of our pockets- and oh, yeah- there was someone there while she was being taken care of to find out how we'd pay! We were charged $900 EACH for two rooms- I guess one must have been the xray room where she spent two minutes. To make a long story short, our physician said yeah, if it had been during the day for an office visit, our bill would have been $200. Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy? Reminds me of the epi pen guy who went from $14 to $400.

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Go to a walk in next time.

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Hard to find at midnight.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy?

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Health Insurance companies, who have inserted themselves between health providers and customers. Aren't they wonderful ?

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy?

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Health Insurance companies, who have inserted themselves between health providers and customers. Aren't they wonderful ?

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OK. Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying they're getting repaid for their participation?

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Originally Posted by slingshot

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy?

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Health Insurance companies, who have inserted themselves between health providers and customers. Aren't they wonderful ?

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OK. Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying they're getting repaid for their participation?

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Sling, everybody knows why emergency rooms charge outrageous amounts for services you can get at your Doctor's office. Your doctor only sees paying customers, while that emergency room treats everyone, and many of those are illegals who go there for common colds, pregnancy and delivery, cuts and bruises, and they haul in their large pile of annoying, sloppy kids for any and all shots and treatments. All for free, except the rest of us pay for these slobs.

Got aproblem with the "outrageous discrepancy"? Complain to the democrats.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Who's responsible for outrageous discrepancy?

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Health Insurance companies, who have inserted themselves between health providers and customers. Aren't they wonderful ?

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OK. Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying they're getting repaid for their participation?

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By being middlemen, the insurance companies take a nice cut. Health services would be cheaper (in the long run) without these middlemen.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by slingshot

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Health Insurance companies, who have inserted themselves between health providers and customers. Aren't they wonderful ?

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OK. Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying they're getting repaid for their participation?

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Sling, everybody knows why emergency rooms charge outrageous amounts for services you can get at your Doctor's office. Your doctor only sees paying customers, while that emergency room treats everyone, and many of those are illegals who go there for common colds, pregnancy and delivery, cuts and bruises, and they haul in their large pile of annoying, sloppy kids for any and all shots and treatments. All for free, except the rest of us pay for these slobs.

Got aproblem with the "outrageous discrepancy"? Complain to the democrats.

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Didn't realize-really. We both get checkups and have no drug, smoking, etc. habits. so we have been blessed with better than average health

Trump had better stir something up soon- The View and Steven Colbert have all been reruns. Some Democrats may have to drop out without something to protest.

So Mickey, I was watching Steve Bullock last night when CNN aired his town hall meeting. He is one of the few democrats I actually like and share a lot of positions with. The majority are too far to the left , still not as dangerous as Trump, but not the type of candidates I could get excited about seeing as president. I was wondering what you thought about him since he is the governor of Montana the state in which you reside.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

So Mickey, I was watching Steve Bullock last night when CNN aired his town hall meeting. He is one of the few democrats I actually like and share a lot of positions with. The majority are too far to the left , still not as dangerous as Trump, but not the type of candidates I could get excited about seeing as president. I was wondering what you thought about him since he is the governor of Montana the state in which you reside.

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Bullock is a democrat governor in a state where the legislature is dominated by republicans. He's pretty much a centrist, pro jobs, pro growth, pro coal (important to Montana). He's taken on the tactic of the previous governor, democrat Brian Sweitzer, of working with republicans to get things done. Of all the democrat presidential candidates he's the only one I like.

If it came down to a vote between Bullock and Trump who would you vote for?

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

If it came down to a vote between Bullock and Trump who would you vote for?

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I didn't vote for Bullock for governor. I voted for Rick Hill, the republican. I'm with Trump until the end. The things he is doing I've been wanting to see for a long time especially on trade. If China is allowed to continue with the huge trade deficits they will eventually own all of the US. Then where will we be? Clinton/Bush/Obama sold us out with the trade deals. Millions of jobs went overseas and 50,000 factories closed down. This put huge pressure on middle class people to remain in the middle class. Proud people want to work not go on welfare.

This is an example of why I like Trump. One of the early things he did was open up ANWR, Dakota Access and Keystone guaranteeing future non-dependence on foreign oil. This is something the dems or an establishment republican would have never done. I have Alaska history so I can tell you something about Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Jimmy Carter locked it up in one of his last acts before leaving office. Take an 8.5 by 11 inch piece of paper. Then put a postage stamp in the upper left hand corner. The paper represents the size of ANWR. The postage stamp represents where the oil is. And the drilling zone is only about 2000 acres. About 10 billion barrels of oil. Polls in Alaska have always shown 85% support for drilling. That's as bipartisan as it gets. But Alaska, with just one congressman, has never had the political power to get it done----until Trump. Forty fricking years of that oil being locked up with no hope of it ever changing. But Trump gets in office and one of the first things he says is "screw the dumasses that have had this oil locked up for so long. You guys get in there and start drilling. Pronto!!!

That's what I like about Trump. Fricking action. He's bold and moves on things. He see's the stupid stuff like locking up ANWR, Dakota Access and Keystone for what it is, stupid as stupid gets. He see's the Russian natural gas pipeline into Germany for what it is, stupid on the German's part to become dependent on Russia. He knows China will end up owning the US if the trade deficits don't stop.He makes decisions like a businessman, not a politician. That's what this country has needed for a long long time.

I could go on with more examples but this will suffice for now. I'm with Trump because the alternative, whether its a dem or establishment republican, will just put us back on the path of selling the country out.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

If it came down to a vote between Bullock and Trump who would you vote for?

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I didn't vote for Bullock for governor. I voted for Rick Hill, the republican. I'm with Trump until the end. The things he is doing I've been wanting to see for a long time especially on trade. If China is allowed to continue with the huge trade deficits they will eventually own all of the US. Then where will we be? Clinton/Bush/Obama sold us out with the trade deals. Millions of jobs went overseas and 50,000 factories closed down. This put huge pressure on middle class people to remain in the middle class. Proud people want to work not go on welfare.

This is an example of why I like Trump. One of the early things he did was open up ANWR, Dakota Access and Keystone guaranteeing future non-dependence on foreign oil. This is something the dems or an establishment republican would have never done. I have Alaska history so I can tell you something about Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Jimmy Carter locked it up in one of his last acts before leaving office. Take an 8.5 by 11 inch piece of paper. Then put a postage stamp in the upper left hand corner. The paper represents the size of ANWR. The postage stamp represents where the oil is. And the drilling zone is only about 2000 acres. About 10 billion barrels of oil. Polls in Alaska have always shown 85% support for drilling. That's as bipartisan as it gets. But Alaska, with just one congressman, has never had the political power to get it done----until Trump. Forty fricking years of that oil being locked up with no hope of it ever changing. But Trump gets in office and one of the first things he says is "screw the dumasses that have had this oil locked up for so long. You guys get in there and start drilling. Pronto!!!

That's what I like about Trump. Fricking action. He's bold and moves on things. He see's the stupid stuff like locking up ANWR, Dakota Access and Keystone for what it is, stupid as stupid gets. He see's the Russian natural gas pipeline into Germany for what it is, stupid on the German's part to become dependent on Russia. He knows China will end up owning the US if the trade deficits don't stop.He makes decisions like a businessman, not a politician. That's what this country has needed for a long long time.

I could go on with more examples but this will suffice for now. I'm with Trump because the alternative, whether its a dem or establishment republican, will just put us back on the path of selling the country out.

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And this is exactly how ALL Trump supporters feel. He doesn't care about race, creed, sexual orientation or religious affiliation--those are attack points from the left because they can see how good a job he is doing and they have no words for that. The man sees stupid and makes it right. He sees rip-offs and he turns it into fair. He watches allies stumble and he calls them out on it. He is the CEO of the USA--not a King like Obama thought of himself as.

Even the Jews who publicly claim to hate him will privately vote for him this time around. They know what's going on here....they know he has their backs while the democrats are too nervous and cowardly to slap down the racist Muslim congresswoman. And do any of those 20+ democratic clowns running for President have ANY explanation against why middle America's 401k's have gone sky-high since Trump took over? Good luck with that one. The economy's alive and robust, minorities have jobs again, home ownership is up, and taxes are down. China has met their match after making chumps out of the last 3 president's. This country sees the democrats as kooks.

Mickey, thank you for your response. There are a lot of us in the middle who do not share your or Rob's view of Donald Trump. At one time I am almost ashamed to admit I considered voting for him. I am beginning to believe the man is becoming batshit crazy. Maybe he will get reelected maybe he won't. At this point I would vote for just about anybody rather than giving Trump four more years to to wreak havoc and ring up unprecedented debt on our country and on future generations. He is like a little kid who always has to get his way regardless of the cost to the rest of us. That is why there are quite a few republicans stepping up and speaking out against him. There must be something wrong with someone that thinks they are smarter than all the generals, all the scientists, and anyone else that holds an opinion on any subject; who thinks it is a good idea to use nukes to stop hurricanes and whose closest allies appear to be Putin and the Korean dictator. He refers to himself as a stable genius but I would be surprised if his IQ was anywhere close to Obama, Clinton, or either of the Bushes. As crappy of a president as he has been so far I think he will be an even worse private citizen once he leaves or is removed from office. His love of country and the middle class is all a big con job. As time goes by more and more people are realizing this. Even the non educated white voters are beginning to turn on Trump.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Mickey, thank you for your response. There are a lot of us in the middle who do not share your or Rob's view of Donald Trump. At one time I am almost ashamed to admit I considered voting for him. I am beginning to believe the man is becoming batshit crazy. Maybe he will get reelected maybe he won't. At this point I would vote for just about anybody rather than giving Trump four more years to to wreak havoc and ring up unprecedented debt on our country and on future generations. He is like a little kid who always has to get his way regardless of the cost to the rest of us. That is why there are quite a few republicans stepping up and speaking out against him. There must be something wrong with someone that thinks they are smarter than all the generals, all the scientists, and anyone else that holds an opinion on any subject; who thinks it is a good idea to use nukes to stop hurricanes and whose closest allies appear to be Putin and the Korean dictator. He refers to himself as a stable genius but I would be surprised if his IQ was anywhere close to Obama, Clinton, or either of the Bushes. As crappy of a president as he has been so far I think he will be an even worse private citizen once he leaves or is removed from office. His love of country and the middle class is all a big con job. As time goes by more and more people are realizing this. Even the non educated white voters are beginning to turn on Trump.

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This is how you lefties are operating. You have to attack his character because you can't argue with his results. You have to keep up the myths about Putin and Jong Un. Establishment republicans can go to hell. And then your myth about uneducated white voters. The most uneducated voting block in this country is the low income/welfare class. They vote en masse for democrats to keep the freebies coming. All you lefties do is push myths.

PS: Watch out for the growing conservative movement among African-Americans. They hate the illegals taking their jobs and housing.

Donald Trump is devoid of empathy and character. Dream on as far as Trump attracting African American voters. They are smarter than you think they are. Trump has insulted so many people that even his own previous inner circle have turned away from him. He is even starting to attack FOX News. Blaming anyone he can think of for his own blunders. He criticizes everyone but fails to look within and realize that most of the problems he is dealing with are of his own creation. Speaking of freebies, what do you think of all the freebies Trump handed out to the wealthiest one tenth of one percent with his tax cut? Seems to me that spending is up and tax revenues are down and we are heading in the wrong direction as far as debt reduction is concerned.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Donald Trump is devoid of empathy and character. Dream on as far as Trump attracting African American voters. They are smarter than you think they are. Trump has insulted so many people that even his own previous inner circle have turned away from him. He is even starting to attack FOX News. Blaming anyone he can think of for his own blunders. He criticizes everyone but fails to look within and realize that most of the problems he is dealing with are of his own creation. Speaking of freebies, what do you think of all the freebies Trump handed out to the wealthiest one tenth of one percent with his tax cut? Seems to me that spending is up and tax revenues are down and we are heading in the wrong direction as far as debt reduction is concerned.

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Like I said you have to come with the myths because you have nothing else.

Mickey I wish it were myths but everything is cold hard facts. I just hope when it is time for him to go he goes peacefully.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Mickey I wish it were myths but everything is cold hard facts. I just hope when it is time for him to go he goes peacefully.

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That’s another myth you are creating. When your time is up another president is sworn in. You lefties just can’t help it with the delusional thinking. It won’t fly with working Americans.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Mickey I wish it were myths but everything is cold hard facts. I just hope when it is time for him to go he goes peacefully.

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Trump has accomplished more in 2 1/2 years than any president has done in 8. That’s just cold hard facts that lefties choose to ignore.

No need to fret Mickey. Sorry if some of my posts have gotten under your skin. Providing Trump and his children can stay out of jail, in a couple of years you should be a happy camper. That is when he will partner with Sean Hannity, Laura Ingram, Alex Jones and others and start Trump TV. 24 hours of nonstop bashing of the Clintons, Barrack Obama, and extolling the virtues of building a wall on the southern border. Undeterred by fake news journalists like Shep Smith and Chris Wallace, I can just see Trump foaming at the mouth as he spews hours upon hours of propaganda, lies, excuses, and false accusations to all of Trumpsters out there that think he is the chosen one. Trust me. He is not going to get reelected but better things will be in store for you and others that think like you if you can just be patient for a couple more years. That is, provided. Trump can stay out of jail.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

No need to fret Mickey. Sorry if some of my posts have gotten under your skin. Providing Trump and his children can stay out of jail, in a couple of years you should be a happy camper. That is when he will partner with Sean Hannity, Laura Ingram, Alex Jones and others and start Trump TV. 24 hours of nonstop bashing of the Clintons, Barrack Obama, and extolling the virtues of building a wall on the southern border. Undeterred by fake news journalists like Shep Smith and Chris Wallace, I can just see Trump foaming at the mouth as he spews hours upon hours of propaganda, lies, excuses, and false accusations to all of Trumpsters out there that think he is the chosen one. Trust me. He is not going to get reelected but better things will be in store for you and others that think like you if you can just be patient for a couple more years. That is, provided. Trump can stay out of jail.

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You don't have me fretting you have me laughing. You're just propagating more myths but I'm laughing out loud at your ignorance. Dude, you need to do your homework before you run off at the mouth about things you know nothing about. This really exposes you as just another ignorant liberal. Shepard Smith has the lowest rated show on Fox News because he's a lefty that hates Trump. Everybody knows that....except maybe you. Fox viewers don't like Shep. Just yesterday I had to listen to him rant about how the tariffs are killing American consumers but the Chinese are doing just fine, not hurting at all. And Chris Wallace is the same thing, a lefty that hates Trump.

That's what you don't get about Fox News. Do you want to hear the liberal point of view everyday? Then watch Fox News. They have a super long list of liberal analysts and debaters that are on every show everyday. But the catch is you have to hear the conservative point of view to. You get both sides everyday because the conservatives on Fox News are not only not afraid to debate liberals they welcome it with open arms. They want it. How can you make an informed opinion if you don't listen to both sides?

For all his flaws Trump is not evil. He has the best interests of the country at heart. The left is evil. Pure evil....and also ignorant.

Can't stand Shep Smith...

Evil is an autocratic bully destroying this country with his divisive actions and affiliations. The autocratic bully I am referring to is of course Donald J. Trump.

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Originally Posted by seemoreroyals

Evil is an autocratic bully destroying this country with his divisive actions and affiliations. The autocratic bully I am referring to is of course Donald J. Trump.

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No, the bullies are the unelected liberal federal judges that keep stopping up progress with injunctions on actions by a duly elected President they know full well will not fly at SOTUS.

The twisted hate of the left can all be summed up in one issue: the delusional letter some liberal congressmen sent to the Supreme Court, threatening the institution unless it starts voting the way THEY want them to.

These libtards should all be tried and executed by public hanging, and the sooner the better.

And here's another heart-breaking fact for you lefties. Obviously, you keep dodging discussing the unequaled policy success Trump has authored. At the forefront is THE VAST AMOUNT OF WEALTH AMASSED BY THE MIDDLE CLASS during his short presidency.

This is the #1 issue that won't be talked about in the dem debates, but the winner better be ready to get hit with it when Trump shows up on that stage again. You libtards REALLY think voters care about "income equality", Green New Deals, "spook reparations", open borders, or free healthcare for illegal slobs?

In a recent senate hearing Dr. Robert Epstein, former editor of Psychology Today, explains to Ted Cruz how easily big tech manipulates voters. He starts at 5:31 in the film clip.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ff2kDIvx3Udb0k

To get to the Google Camp on the Climate Crisis celebrities used 114 private jets, yachts and Maserati SUV's. And the Obama's, worried sick over climate change, bought a mansion on the beach. Climate change is nothing more than a tool lefties are using in attempting to establish massive government power/control over the lives of Americans.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

To get to the Google Camp on the Climate Crisis celebrities used 114 private jets, yachts and Maserati SUV's. And the Obama's, worried sick over climate change, bought a mansion on the beach. Climate change is nothing more than a tool lefties are using in attempting to establish massive government power/control over the lives of Americans.

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I always wonder why those who advocate for global warming don’t call out China and India. They are the two biggest contributors of carbon but the left in this country all but ignore them. To this day I have NEVER heard a left leaning politician ever point finger at those two countries. It’s BS in that here in the US we have cleaner air and water than when I was a kid in the 70’s. We have made strides and continue to do so.
I’m not a climate advocate but if I was I’d try to put pressure where it belongs instead of shooting ourself in the foot and wrecking our own economy while China goes merrily along trying and declaring to beat us.

Damn, I missed the Dem debates last night. I wanted to hear Andrew Yang and Julian Castro, two sons of poor immigrants that became wildly successful in this country, explain how minorities don't have a chance here.

And I also wanted Kamala Harris, a black female Attorney General, also explain how minorities don't have a chance.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Damn, I missed the Dem debates last night. I wanted to hear Andrew Yang and Julian Castro, two sons of poor immigrants that became wildly successful in this country, explain how minorities don't have a chance here.

And I also wanted Kamala Harris, a black female Attorney General, also explain how minorities don't have a chance.

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We watched for a while until we couldn’t take it anymore. To say we were annoyed is as kind as I can put it. It also made us fearful of the future if one of these candidates were to win.
Are there no more moderates left in the Democratic Party?