coach belly are you an advantage player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

You really need to get help. You are obviously mentally disturbed.

---

I can assure you the feeling is quite mutual mickeycrimm. Your insane switch regarding Singer and you now distorting and re-writing history to suit your new boyfriend demonstrates a clear detachment from reality. And you obsession with gay sex acts is not normal either. It goes well beyond the juvenile name calling that kids do, which you use as an excuse. It really reveals who you are...insecure closet door and everything.

What should be concerning to you is these opinions are shared by most here. And the same about MaxPen. Your opinions about MaxPen are shared by only you and a couple of the AP haters like blackhole. Everyone else, everyone normal knows Maxpen is a top AP. If blackhole shared my opinion about anything.....I think I would be very concerned. ;)

---

Look at this idiot, KJocchio. In one sentence he accuses me of having a "new boyfriend." In the very next sentence he accuses me of being obsessed with gay acts. HERE'S THE FUCKING POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK. Bitch get your mouth out from around redietz' cock long enough to make a coherent thought. And it's not hard to tell you've been fucking maxpen again. Easy enough to do since you both live in Vegas.

MAXPEN IS A POSER PRO. He hasn't contributed anything to AP discussion in the forums. He's just been in the forums to pick off information from the real pros on where the plays are. He's a monkey see monkey do guy.

And MDawg is right about you, KJocchio. You washed out as a blackjack player. You're a piece of shit bust out loser.

---

Folks, it doesn't get better than this. lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I believe Mickey's backing of Singer, is a combination of unwillingness to admit that he's wrong(extreme stubbornness) and his extreme hatred for Max, KJ and Comrade Dietz. Mickey is just to sharp in the AP department, to actually truly believe all of Singers nonsense and his continual defense of grandpa Newell. There are hundreds of posts of Mickey over a span of several years disproving and calling Singer a charlatan. He ultimately refuses to admit that he's wrong about the whole ordeal.

---

Ozzy, I've never backed Singer. All I care about is the facts. The Three Stooges don't care about the facts, only their extreme hatred. Their Singer Derangement Syndrome has ruined them. They are now just fucked up washed up trolls letting their SDS ruin the VCT Forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoSox

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoSox

redietz wrote:

"I'm reasonably certain "Singer" didn't keep tabs on free rooms and meal values to arrive at his bottom line."





Reasonably certain, bull crap, sounds like speculation to me.

What other AP's calculations methods used to get to a final tally, was not the way Singer wanted to be looked upon as being in the same boat publically. That is Singer only being Singer every time. However, you can bet your ass that he passed up on nothing, and that was just one of his many secrets.

---

Just wanted to mention that I'm a bit of a language precisionist, so most of what I say is usually laced with qualifiers as opposed to declarations (as this sentence is), so almost everything has a degree of speculation to it.

My opinion/speculation/me-being-reasonably-certain (as opposed to being certain or someone else being reasonably certain) is that if Singer at any point had amassed mass quantities of comps to which he had attached a value, it would have taken a herculean effort by him to not mention it at some point with a dollar figure attached. His Newell obsession and using price tags adjectivally in reference to the Newell (as my mom did with home decor in my youth -- "the $600 sofa" or the "$40 lamp") allows me to come to my speculative conclusion that had he kept tabs on his freebies, at some point in thousands of posts, he would have attached some kind of price tag to it or boasted about it or mentioned it in some concrete way.

Perhaps I'm wrong and "Singer" displayed the same discipline in not mentioning his comp values as he has in keeping silent about the double up bug or stifling his opinions of blacks, asians, and gays.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

And allow me to point out that in this kind of discussion, given BoSox's newbie status regarding all things "Singer," that BoSox's speculations regarding "Singer" are most likely (note the qualifier) more speculative than mine, to coin a phrase from Animal Farm.

---

Those are two very good points made redeitz. I did realize that I did not know about Singer's history as nearly as well as the rest of you. However, this discussion is not about whatever lies were made by Singer. I don't think that anyone disputes that he made plenty of those.

---

redietz is not a language precisionist, he's a dead-brainist. He can't even remember all those times Singer wrote about taking his wife on comped vacations to casino resorts and and getting bashed by him and his brain-dead friends for "dragging his wife" to those places. Fucking idiots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I believe Mickey's backing of Singer, is a combination of unwillingness to admit that he's wrong(extreme stubbornness) and his extreme hatred for Max, KJ and Comrade Dietz. Mickey is just to sharp in the AP department, to actually truly believe all of Singers nonsense and his continual defense of grandpa Newell. There are hundreds of posts of Mickey over a span of several years disproving and calling Singer a charlatan. He ultimately refuses to admit that he's wrong about the whole ordeal.

---

Ozzy, I've never backed Singer. All I care about is the facts. The Three Stooges don't care about the facts, only their extreme hatred. Their Singer Derangement Syndrome has ruined them. They are now just fucked up washed up trolls letting their SDS ruin the VCT Forum.

---

Oh my! Taking used up Trump meme-propaganda and swapping out Singer. ha ha ha.

The best thing is the guys who loved to talk about TDS were also biggest victims of TDS.

Just like SDS....

Singer so far in Mickey's head. Mickey wanted to cruise in that Newell soooo bad. Yall don't know what it's like to be camping out in the shadows and see a Newell cruise by. There literally can be no greater existence outside of the Rapture for a hobo. Now ex-hobo has that SDS in his head and all he wanted was a fuckn ride, homies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoSox

Those are two very good points made redeitz. I did realize that I did not know about Singer's history as nearly as well as the rest of you. However, this discussion is not about whatever lies were made by Singer. I don't think that anyone disputes that he made plenty of those.

---

I really don't want to dwell on Singer. The character created, "Rob Singer" is now dead. The man that created the character, just now irrelevant.

But the history of the person cannot be ignored. If someone new had come to a forum and made the claim of the double up bug, while skeptical, I would give him the benefit of doubt, until I had reason not to. I and others might have questions and that might seem a little unfair, like an interrogation, but the magnitude of such a claim almost requires that.

BUT, when that same claim is made by a person, who has for 20 years lied and made false claim, you don't take him at his word. At that point the onus is on him to prove his claim. He created that lack of credibility. And that is the point I was trying to make to mickey several years ago. Consider the source and look into it. And if mickey had looked into it, like some of us did, he would have seen many things that don't add up as well as many things that just flat out contradict the possibility.

Google "narcissist". You will find numerous articles listing traits of a narcissist.
All contain common traits of lying for the need for attention. And they escalate these lies and claims when not receiving the attention desired.
They exaggerate their own smarts, success, power, and looks.
The lack of empathy leads them to take advantage of people, with no regrets.
Narcissists may be extremely jealous and ultra-sensitive.
Because they tend to be very thin-skinned, they may angrily lash out at any criticism or push-back.
Narcissists also may lash out when they feel like they’re not getting special treatment.
Underneath all of these traits is a deep sense of insecurity.

This is Rob (the person behind the character) to a tee. Bitter at his admitted failure as an AP and status as a degenerate losing gambler, he made up stories of success, long-term winning playing negative EV. Millions of dollars over 10 years, later amended to fit a new claim. When he was no longer getting the attention desired, he escalated his claim by stealing the double up bug. If any of it had been real there would have been no need for all the name calling and attacks that occurred for decades on numerous forums. But that kind of attacking back, deflecting is classic narcissistic behavior.

And now we see the exact same text book example of narcissist behavior from Mdawg. Honestly it is not just like watching a repeat, but a really BAD repeat.

---

The biggest lie ever told on VCT? It can never be topped:

"I really don't want to dwell on Singer."

As for narcissists all KJocchio has to do to find one is look in the mirror.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I believe Mickey's backing of Singer, is a combination of unwillingness to admit that he's wrong(extreme stubbornness) and his extreme hatred for Max, KJ and Comrade Dietz. Mickey is just to sharp in the AP department, to actually truly believe all of Singers nonsense and his continual defense of grandpa Newell. There are hundreds of posts of Mickey over a span of several years disproving and calling Singer a charlatan. He ultimately refuses to admit that he's wrong about the whole ordeal.

---

Ozzy, I've never backed Singer. All I care about is the facts. The Three Stooges don't care about the facts, only their extreme hatred. Their Singer Derangement Syndrome has ruined them. They are now just fucked up washed up trolls letting their SDS ruin the VCT Forum.

---

Seems the only one deranged is you. Every day with the same hallucinations. Seems like most agree too.....you've lost it....RIP

Most everyone except you and maybe coach belly has seemed to move on from Singer. Now it's the MDog show. I forgive you though as I blame some sort of long term oxygen deprivation during your heart attack for your stupidity. That kind of shit will fuck with anyone's mental faculties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

kewlJ quoting me?
That seems odd!?
I thought she had me on ignore.

---

Didn't quote you, you porky bastard. I quoted Bosox, who had manually quoted you. :rolleyes:

And yes, blubber butt, I do have you on ignore. We all understand how that works, that I may still see some of your post both when others quote you and when I visit the site without being logged on, which is usually the case when I visit from my phone.

Anyway, I am not opposed to reading some of your posts, because unlike most of the others haters that post nothing useful, only hate, you sometimes post useful information, even financially beneficial information. Here this will really piss you off: within the last two weeks, I was having lunch at Victory Burger at Circa, which has quickly become one of my favorite places. While waiting for the order, I was scanning VCT on my phone, which meant you were unblocked. You had given out a couple hockey picks you liked, one was Tampa bay and I forget the other. Since I was right there at the sportsbook, I bet the puck line both games individually and won. You on the other hand did some kind of parley with I think two other teams, one of which only won by 1 and lost your ticket. I didn't bet a lot, but made 5 hundred and some. I also have won 2 bets against buffalo in the past couple weeks. I only get out once or twice a week so they have to be playing that day and I have to even remember to look. But you have been good for probably a grand for me this month. And every little bit helps, especially now, since I haven't yet returned to blackjack play. So thanks. ;)

---

How can you have a legend like Monet on ignore, he's the best poster here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcap

Mickey is getting pwned. It’s embarrassing.

---

Dude, don't equate numbers with intelligence. The Three Stooges are gang up motherfuckers. They have to because their IQ's are lower than their ages. Besides, I don't consider it a fair fight unless there are three of them. I can beat those idiots in a battle of the wits with half my brain tied behind my back. You can even throw in Suckscockontuesdays and I'll beat them all to death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The biggest lie ever told on VCT? It can never be topped:

"I really don't want to dwell on Singer."

As for narcissists all KJocchio has to do to find one is look in the mirror.

---

Let me tell you something Crimm. You embarrass yourself everyday. A real man would say "yeah I was wrong about Singer and the double up bug. He had some info that at the time made him seem credible, but as time has gone on new things have arisen, and I was wrong."

What the fuck is so hard about that? Singer is a professional and top notch troll. he knew all the troll plays. How to trick and manipulate people. So you got played by one of the best trolls because you gave him the benefit of doubt? Big deal. You be a man, admit it and move on. I mean the fact is YOU were proven right for all those many years, arguing his bullshit claims and then at the last minute you inexplicably jumped to the losing team. You snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory. You know that is backwards of what you are supposed to do. ;)

But you do what you gotta do Crimm, if it somehow makes you feel better, but you aren't fooling anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

. I can beat those idiots in a battle of the wits with half my brain tied behind my back.

---

What an idiot! :rolleyes: Another insecure looney engaging in pissing contests at every chance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcap

Mickey is getting pwned. It’s embarrassing.

---

Dude, don't equate numbers with intelligence. The Three Stooges are gang up motherfuckers. They have to because their IQ's are lower than their ages. Besides, I don't consider it a fair fight unless there are three of them. I can beat those idiots in a battle of the wits with half my brain tied behind my back. You can even throw in Suckscockontuesdays and I'll beat them all to death.

---

I am pretty sure you left half your brain under that bridge you used to sleep under. Maybe it's still in the refrigerator box you used to stay warm. Go see if you can find it and become a full-wit again. Then get back to us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxPen

I am pretty sure you left half your brain under that bridge you used to sleep under. Maybe it's still in the refrigerator box you used to stay warm. Go see if you can find it and become a full-wit again. Then get back to us.

---

Yeah, I was going to comment about half his brain already being lost to a lifetime alcohol abuse, but didn't. (I guess I just did though ;))

But the truth is this mickeycrim of today is nothing close to the mickeycrimm of a few years a go. Whether you like him, and his online antics and trolling or not, there is a very noticeable decline.

Mickey is Mickey. If it wasn't for the homo stuff .. just so juvenile .. he'd be ok. Like.. have some self-awareness bro.

This is a real trollboard. You guys are the best. I don't think I've ever been amongst a finer group of misfits. If Mickey could just get away from the homo talk then he'd be fine. This obsession with the homosexual putdown is epic. I can imagine him at a bar and someone yells out 'fag' and he and all his buddies start giggling together. lol. like beavises n buttheads

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tominnv

Now you should have no problems pointing out the public records of mathematicians analysis and explanation of MDawg's casino betting claims.

---

You'll need to answer my question before I consider your request.

You are hiding something from the community,
while the answers to your questions are publicly available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxPen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I believe Mickey's backing of Singer, is a combination of unwillingness to admit that he's wrong(extreme stubbornness) and his extreme hatred for Max, KJ and Comrade Dietz. Mickey is just to sharp in the AP department, to actually truly believe all of Singers nonsense and his continual defense of grandpa Newell. There are hundreds of posts of Mickey over a span of several years disproving and calling Singer a charlatan. He ultimately refuses to admit that he's wrong about the whole ordeal.

---

Ozzy, I've never backed Singer. All I care about is the facts. The Three Stooges don't care about the facts, only their extreme hatred. Their Singer Derangement Syndrome has ruined them. They are now just fucked up washed up trolls letting their SDS ruin the VCT Forum.

---

Seems the only one deranged is you. Every day with the same hallucinations. Seems like most agree too.....you've lost it....RIP

Most everyone except you and maybe coach belly has seemed to move on from Singer. Now it's the MDog show. I forgive you though as I blame some sort of long term oxygen deprivation during your heart attack for your stupidity. That kind of shit will fuck with anyone's mental faculties.

---

Typical brain dead response from one of the Three Stooges. And you've "moved on from Singer." BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Dude, you got Singer Derangement Syndrome bigtime. He's in your every waking thought....other than fucking KJocchio up the ass.

Yeah, you've moved on alright. You betcha. You got a bridge for sale too, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The biggest lie ever told on VCT? It can never be topped:

"I really don't want to dwell on Singer."

As for narcissists all KJocchio has to do to find one is look in the mirror.

---

Let me tell you something Crimm. You embarrass yourself everyday. A real man would say "yeah I was wrong about Singer and the double up bug. He had some info that at the time made him seem credible, but as time has gone on new things have arisen, and I was wrong."

What the fuck is so hard about that? Singer is a professional and top notch troll. he knew all the troll plays. How to trick and manipulate people. So you got played by one of the best trolls because you gave him the benefit of doubt? Big deal. You be a man, admit it and move on. I mean the fact is YOU were proven right for all those many years, arguing his bullshit claims and then at the last minute you inexplicably jumped to the losing team. You snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory. You know that is backwards of what you are supposed to do. ;)

But you do what you gotta do Crimm, if it somehow makes you feel better, but you aren't fooling anyone.

---

SINGER DERANGEMENT SYNDROME

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxPen

I am pretty sure you left half your brain under that bridge you used to sleep under. Maybe it's still in the refrigerator box you used to stay warm. Go see if you can find it and become a full-wit again. Then get back to us.

---

Yeah, I was going to comment about half his brain already being lost to a lifetime alcohol abuse, but didn't. (I guess I just did though ;))

But the truth is this mickeycrim of today is nothing close to the mickeycrimm of a few years a go. Whether you like him, and his online antics and trolling or not, there is a very noticeable decline.

---

Dude, when god said brains you thought he said rain and ran for cover.

Mickey ignores me. I think that means I'm the baddest troll on this forums. He wants no piece of this. I love him though .. he's that grouchy old uncle no one else in the family likes.

If I could offer one gift to anyone on this forum - I'd offer to rent a Newell for Mickey. Let him lounge around in it, take it around the block, maybe park it in a casino parking lot. Maybe rent it and just go park it outside a joint that seems to have reasonable EV for slot hustling. Make him arrange transportation there. Maybe disable the Newell somehow so he can't drive it away but otherwise give him the keys. Yea.. that would make me happy. I think it'd let Mickey get rid of a lot of this anger. Move on past the SDS into new things in life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Dude, when god said brains you thought he said rain and ran for cover.

---

An oldie, but a goodie. :)

One of the signs of dementia is you can't remember what happened yesterday, like who's toes you ran over in your wheelchair/scooter, but you remember clearly everything from childhood, in your case, all the digs and busts from your 3 years in the 3rd grade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tominnv

Now you should have no problems pointing out the public records of mathematicians analysis and explanation of MDawg's casino betting claims.

---

You'll need to answer my question before I consider your request.

You are hiding something from the community,
while the answers to your questions are publicly available.

---

I did answer your question, now my answers are publicly available as well. The answer was even in the post you quoted, yet you erased it. If you continue to have such serious problems pointing out these things that are publicly available, that just shows you are doing exactly what I thought: trying to hide this information.

Like most people, I do not have a full knowledge of every public record in all of human history. We would need to be directed to it. If you cannot do that, it would mean you are a liar and the things you said about mathematicians analyzing MDawg and Rob Singer's claims were lies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

How can you have a legend like Monet on ignore, he's the best poster here.

---

Not in this thread.
I have misunderstood posts and misquoted queers.
I don't even understand the concept of this thread being about Las Vegas.
Ok, I don't really understand the concept of this thread.
Anyways...
Hockey!

I loved the AV's till I seen the line at -1.5 -145
I guess the best bet is still betting against Buffalo but you figure they got to win one of these days lol.
Jets money line seems good as they lost last time.
Not sure if that heroin addict for the Knights is going to be in goal today.
Hard to bet against the Knights or the Pens this season as they just keep on winning.
Over on the Knights and Pens might be a better bet.
The AVs are -400 on the money line against the Ducks.
The Ducks are bad but not that bad... geesh lol.
I always like betting against the Sharks.
Maple Leafs are about due for a break out game where they win by 2 goals or more.
Last one was 3 games ago where they beat the Flames 2-0.
Before that, it was against the Oilers, who they play today and they won 6-1.
As a matter of fact they have beat the Oilers the last 4 games they played and 3 of them covered the puck line.
They are 6-2 against the Oilers this year and one loss was in OT.
The last win was in OT as well.
I'm starting to convince myself to bet on the Maple Leafs today with this post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Name the mathematicians

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Why do you seem to be under the impression that I have anything against MDawg? My entire purpose in this thread was to demonstrate that his claims (at least the ones I have read) are not mathematically ridiculous.

---

---

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

---

If that is true why do you charge people for your math work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Why do you seem to be under the impression that I have anything against MDawg? My entire purpose in this thread was to demonstrate that his claims (at least the ones I have read) are not mathematically ridiculous.

---

---

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

---

If anyone is interested in the details, PM me and I'll run through my routine for checking up on math. While I respect Mission and tableplay and mickey (regarding machine play math) and others on these forums, I would not use any of their numbers without multiple outside corroboration.

I start by discussing any problem with Scott, who retired from ETSU after teaching probability and stats for the sociology department. He's not a mathematician per se, but he is a Fulbright who taught math. I can usually understand maybe a third of what he tells me, but it gives me a starting point and helps me ask questions. Then there's Bob who lives 60 yards down the road, who is a lifetime mathematician (and who has a bigger comic book collection than me). I wouldn't understand much of what he says. Then I get to consult some grad students in the math department, who are usually more than glad to help civilians, and they are more patient with dunderheads. Or I drop an email to a professor who teaches an online probability course at Texas. Eventually I get some idea what I'm supposed to be talking about.

If you'll notice from my blog entries, of which there are about 150, I don't tackle math specifics unless they are verified correct.

When I was in my 20's and 30's, I played on the Penn State math department grad/faculty hoops team. It was like staying at a Holiday Inn Express. We had a power forward from China and an off guard from Taiwan and a Romanian point guard. It taught me mathematical humility, although once or twice I actually corrected them regarding some sports analysis math.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

---

If that is true why do you charge people for your math work?

---

Unless you are referring to getting paid for my articles, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. While people could certainly offer to pay me to do something if they wanted to, I don't recall getting any such offer and would generally refuse. I'd probably do the math for them if I had the option of writing about it which would get me paid for the writing and thereby make it worth my time.

Not to drop names, but someone on this forum could and has my permission to verify that I did a rather comprehensive analysis for him and asked for nothing in exchange. Actually, I asked to write an article describing (but not naming) the game and the analysis and he said that was fine.

I can't recall ever receiving payment directly for a particular analysis in the past, but perhaps I have. Usually people will just shoot me a PM or text me and I'll do it with no payment if it's not anything too ridiculously long. I'll sometimes decline if I think it is outside of the scope of my abilities (I can't program and some things basically require simulation) or if I can't write about it...but I'll generally do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

---

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

---

If anyone is interested in the details, PM me and I'll run through my routine for checking up on math. While I respect Mission and tableplay and mickey (regarding machine play math) and others on these forums, I would not use any of their numbers without multiple outside corroboration.

I start by discussing any problem with Scott, who retired from ETSU after teaching probability and stats for the sociology department. He's not a mathematician per se, but he is a Fulbright who taught math. I can usually understand maybe a third of what he tells me, but it gives me a starting point and helps me ask questions. Then there's Bob who lives 60 yards down the road, who is a lifetime mathematician (and who has a bigger comic book collection than me). I wouldn't understand much of what he says. Then I get to consult some grad students in the math department, who are usually more than glad to help civilians, and they are more patient with dunderheads. Or I drop an email to a professor who teaches an online probability course at Texas. Eventually I get some idea what I'm supposed to be talking about.

If you'll notice from my blog entries, of which there are about 150, I don't tackle math specifics unless they are verified correct.

When I was in my 20's and 30's, I played on the Penn State math department grad/faculty hoops team. It was like staying at a Holiday Inn Express. We had a power forward from China and an off guard from Taiwan and a Romanian point guard. It taught me mathematical humility, although once or twice I actually corrected them regarding some sports analysis math.

---

I think Redietz has the right idea on this. I do not think anyone should rely solely on any analysis that I do as to any machine play, except for me relying on myself, of course.

Anyone who actually taught any form of mathematics at the college level is immediately more qualified than I am, at least, speaking on the whole. When it comes to analyses specifically related to gambling, I'd also get a second opinion on any such analysis or analyze it myself to my own satisfaction. If you're going to put any money on the line with anything, then definitely get two or more people who know how to do the math and agree with one another.

For my part, anytime I do an analysis (in paid writings or posts), I try to include a step-by-step breakdown explaining what it is that I'm doing and why it works. I mainly do that so people can learn it for themselves, if they want to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

---

If that is true why do you charge people for your math work?

---

Unless you are referring to getting paid for my articles, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. While people could certainly offer to pay me to do something if they wanted to, I don't recall getting any such offer and would generally refuse. I'd probably do the math for them if I had the option of writing about it which would get me paid for the writing and thereby make it worth my time.

Not to drop names, but someone on this forum could and has my permission to verify that I did a rather comprehensive analysis for him and asked for nothing in exchange. Actually, I asked to write an article describing (but not naming) the game and the analysis and he said that was fine.

I can't recall ever receiving payment directly for a particular analysis in the past, but perhaps I have. Usually people will just shoot me a PM or text me and I'll do it with no payment if it's not anything too ridiculously long. I'll sometimes decline if I think it is outside of the scope of my abilities (I can't program and some things basically require simulation) or if I can't write about it...but I'll generally do it.

---

Oh I must be mistaken.
I'm not doing very well in this thread anyways.
Making a mistake on about every post.

I thought a few years ago when we were pming on WoV we were talking about the Red Hot 7's that I play in downtown Las Vegas.
We were talking about the exact payback percentage and you were saying that if I recorded so many spins you could figure it out using math.
I declined because I know the payback from sheer volume of play but was curious to confirm it with math.
I thought you said that you would charge me a fee for such information and work.
I guess I Fucked Up in my remembering.
Sorry bout that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

Oh I must be mistaken.
I'm not doing very well in this thread anyways.
Making a mistake on about every post.

I thought a few years ago when we were pming on WoV we were talking about the Red Hot 7's that I play in downtown Las Vegas.
We were talking about the exact payback percentage and you were saying that if I recorded so many spins you could figure it out using math.
I declined because I know the payback from sheer volume of play but was curious to confirm it with math.
I thought you said that you would charge me a fee for such information and work.
I guess I Fucked Up in my remembering.
Sorry bout that.

---

It's no big deal if it was a mistake. I don't recall the conversation at all, so I went through our PM's for 2017 and we only discussed the Football Picks thing and a promotion that had already happened.

Actually, I went back to February of 2016 and I think I see what you're talking about, but it seems one of the PM's is missing.

From what I can gather from your response, I suggested that one of us would need to get a few thousand spins of data and it appears that I may have offered to go through the spins (for a price) if you video recorded them. Anyway, I believe the machine being discussed was a pretty straight up single or three-line progressive machine, so I'm quite confident in my ability to do a correct analysis of that as I have analyzed (and has been verified by people better than me) much more difficult things than that.

In any case, I believe that any associated fee that I would have asked for would have pertained to gathering the spin data (symbol frequencies) if I had to do that part myself. You did not have the symbol frequencies for this machine. If you had the symbol frequencies for a large enough sample, then I could give you the return of the game in mere minutes and would have just done it for free.

But, yes, I can definitely say that I would usually not offer to track reel/symbol frequencies for free. In fact, I have been paid to do that on a few occasions for various people.

In any case, you have a much better memory than I do. I would have never remembered any WoV PM conversation we had except the football thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

In any case, you have a much better memory than I do. I would have never remembered any WoV PM conversation we had except the football thing.

---

It's a blessing and a curse.
I wouldn't say its a photographic memory but maybe a type of photographic memory.
I seem to have an ability to remember most peoples names I come into contact with and most interactions in my life.
I have always run into my family or friends telling me they don't remember saying that.
I used to think people were lying but now I realize that not everyone has the same type of memory.
It appears most people have more short term memory whereas I seem to have very long term memory.
It helps with books and movie quotes not to mention learning video poker strategies.
I seem to be very good with maps and once I drive around a city or town I seem to know where everything is.
But I'm lazy and only use about 5% of my capabilities in life because its easier to just lay around watching TV compared to being ambitious.
I took the plunge though and just spent 3400 dollars on a Wall Tent and Camping Gear.
Still probably need to spend another 1000 or so on other items.
You think it is fun researching "how to poop in the woods" or "should I carry my poop out of the woods" for over 4 hours???
It's not fun... I could dig a hole big enough for an outhouse or latrine but that has interesting complications too :)
I have a feeling I am going to go camping in a Wall Tent for a week or two and come home and buy an RV.
Live and Learn... Live and Learn.
At least doing it this way I will have both options.

EDIT: The Yeti Cooler might be worth the 300 to 400 dollars but the Pelican states it can hold ice up to 10 days.
Turns out the Pelican Cooler is the only Cooler a Bear can't open.
I can't believe I'm researching coolers that are this expensive.
Fucking people are starving all over the world and I'm doing this stupid shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

. While I respect Mission and tableplay and mickey (regarding machine play math) and others on these forums, I would not use any of their numbers without multiple outside corroboration.

---

That sounds like overkill, depending on the situation. I guess that's good if you have all the time to do that. Oftentimes, in an Advantage Play situation, you don't have the luxury of time, you may only have a brief window of time to get down on something. I would trust any one of them if they said they were confident with what they came up with.

There have been quite a few times where I thought a particular game/way to play a promotion had to be the way to go and others are not so sure. I'll even tell the math guys my idea and I'm meet with resistances... "I do think that will be any good" Me: Can you just please run the math anyways? Low and behold, I'm correct

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

In any case, you have a much better memory than I do. I would have never remembered any WoV PM conversation we had except the football thing.

---

It's a blessing and a curse.
I wouldn't say its a photographic memory but maybe a type of photographic memory.
I seem to have an ability to remember most peoples names I come into contact with and most interactions in my life.
I have always run into my family or friends telling me they don't remember saying that.
I used to think people were lying but now I realize that not everyone has the same type of memory.
It appears most people have more short term memory whereas I seem to have very long term memory.
It helps with books and movie quotes not to mention learning video poker strategies.
I seem to be very good with maps and once I drive around a city or town I seem to know where everything is.
But I'm lazy and only use about 5% of my capabilities in life because its easier to just lay around watching TV compared to being ambitious.
I took the plunge though and just spent 3400 dollars on a Wall Tent and Camping Gear.
Still probably need to spend another 1000 or so on other items.
You think it is fun researching "how to poop in the woods" or "should I carry my poop out of the woods" for over 4 hours???
It's not fun... I could dig a hole big enough for an outhouse or latrine but that has interesting complications too :)
I have a feeling I am going to go camping in a Wall Tent for a week or two and come home and buy an RV.
Live and Learn... Live and Learn.
At least doing it this way I will have both options.

EDIT: The Yeti Cooler might be worth the 300 to 400 dollars but the Pelican states it can hold ice up to 10 days.
Turns out the Pelican Cooler is the only Cooler a Bear can't open.
I can't believe I'm researching coolers that are this expensive.
Fucking people are starving all over the world and I'm doing this stupid shit.

---

You should film this expedition and put it behind a paywall. I am 100% sure I would buy a subscription to view this. If not, at least post up some pics of the campsite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

. While I respect Mission and tableplay and mickey (regarding machine play math) and others on these forums, I would not use any of their numbers without multiple outside corroboration.

---

That sounds like overkill, depending on the situation. I guess that's good if you have all the time to do that. Oftentimes, in an Advantage Play situation, you don't have the luxury of time, you may only have a brief window of time to get down on something. I would trust any one of them if they said they were confident with what they came up with.

There have been quite a few times where I thought a particular game/way to play a promotion had to be the way to go and others are not so sure. I'll even tell the math guys my idea and I'm meet with resistances... "I do think that will be any good" Me: Can you just please run the math anyways? Low and behold, I'm correct

---

I agree with all of this. Axel makes a good point on time-sensitive things and I'll even say something like, this is what I think in the context of having to do my best quickly. I'll say something like, "I know I came up with an advantage of 12%, assuming what you told me is right, and I can guarantee that the advantage is at least 5%...but I'd really like to have had more time/data on this. I'm also relying on what you said the promotion's rules are."

So, yes, but I'll usually give a result with a litany of qualifiers. If I'm 99.99% confident, then I'll say I'm 99.99% confident.

I appreciate you saying that, by the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

. While I respect Mission and tableplay and mickey (regarding machine play math) and others on these forums, I would not use any of their numbers without multiple outside corroboration.

---

That sounds like overkill, depending on the situation. I guess that's good if you have all the time to do that. Oftentimes, in an Advantage Play situation, you don't have the luxury of time, you may only have a brief window of time to get down on something. I would trust any one of them if they said they were confident with what they came up with.

There have been quite a few times where I thought a particular game/way to play a promotion had to be the way to go and others are not so sure. I'll even tell the math guys my idea and I'm meet with resistances... "I do think that will be any good" Me: Can you just please run the math anyways? Low and behold, I'm correct

---

I agree with all of this. Axel makes a good point on time-sensitive things and I'll even say something like, this is what I think in the context of having to do my best quickly. I'll say something like, "I know I came up with an advantage of 12%, assuming what you told me is right, and I can guarantee that the advantage is at least 5%...but I'd really like to have had more time/data on this. I'm also relying on what you said the promotion's rules are."

So, yes, but I'll usually give a result with a litany of qualifiers. If I'm 99.99% confident, then I'll say I'm 99.99% confident.

I appreciate you saying that, by the way.

---

You are fairly good at math and many other subjects for a hillbilly *insert banjo ��


I find that whenever I have had someone do any math for me, they are always straight up. They will tell you where there could be some discrepancies, missing information, or unknowns or something is just out of their wheelhouse so this is the best they could come up with and it should be checked.


I'm fairly good at knowing in a very short period of time who knows what they are talking about (not just with math stuff), who's good a what, who is capable of whatever, who is trustworthy even if I know very little about the subject.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxPen

You should film this expedition and put it behind a paywall. I am 100% sure I would buy a subscription to view this. If not, at least post up some pics of the campsite.

---

I can snap a few photos and share stories with you all on this site but I have no ambition to film or monetize my life.
After I get all the supplies I will head somewhere near Las Vegas for a trial run for a week or two.
Probably Mt. Charleston, Valley of Fire, Lake Mead, Black Canyon of Colorado NV or nearby areas.
Stay close to home, food and water supplies to get a feel for it before I head up to Northern Nevada.
After I get comfortable with that I plan to branch out to other states like Utah, Colorado and Oregon.
I have to research the current gun laws along with the current Ching Chang Chong Shiver Laws to make final decisions.
At least I actually bought the tent and some of the equipment which should force me to finally get out there and enjoy the Great Outdoors.
I decided to buy the RainFly with Awning to the tent.
Not needed but some advantages might justify the 450 dollar upgrade.
I don't have a big enough yard to set it up and soak it down to seal the cotton so the RainFly will help with UV and Weather.
I thought about a cook tent or porch but opted for just the awning.
I figure I can buy a cheaper Canopy Tent to set up for shade and cooking.
Probably get two 40 dollar privacy tents for shower and toilet.
Not needed again but goes along with the trial and error of learning.
Actually after researching a bit I found many different options for showering.
Some very inexpensive ideas that seem to work well for about 45 dollars.
Some people claim showering with soap isn't needed, as all you really need is water.
I can go along with that science or theory but still would feel better soaping up the private areas and arm pits.
The longest I ever went without water bathing was 7 days and people said I stank pretty bad :)
I didn't notice any smell.

If you research it and the like forums you will notice most people say these upgrades are a waste of money but spending an extra 2 grand or so for me makes no difference.
What I like is One Stop Shopping.
I'll overpay for that convenience.
One could buy cheap tarps and cut them to size and make do but from my understanding you spend just as much in the long run so buying the more expensive option makes sense as it is made to fit your exact tent.
No matter how I look at it, I am saving 25 grand compared to buying an RV but if everything goes sideways on me I may buy an RV anyway.
I'm Looney Tunes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mission146

Flattered that you consider me a mathematician, but if I'm on the roster of mathematicians at all...it's strictly riding the pine. I'm just a guy with a little bit of a math background who's better than average at statistics and probability.

---

If that is true why do you charge people for your math work?

---

Unless you are referring to getting paid for my articles, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. While people could certainly offer to pay me to do something if they wanted to, I don't recall getting any such offer and would generally refuse. I'd probably do the math for them if I had the option of writing about it which would get me paid for the writing and thereby make it worth my time.

Not to drop names, but someone on this forum could and has my permission to verify that I did a rather comprehensive analysis for him and asked for nothing in exchange. Actually, I asked to write an article describing (but not naming) the game and the analysis and he said that was fine.

I can't recall ever receiving payment directly for a particular analysis in the past, but perhaps I have. Usually people will just shoot me a PM or text me and I'll do it with no payment if it's not anything too ridiculously long. I'll sometimes decline if I think it is outside of the scope of my abilities (I can't program and some things basically require simulation) or if I can't write about it...but I'll generally do it.

---

It was the average number of free games that had me stumped. They've put in a lot more machines with that game on it. It's in my rotation of games where I check the progressive numbers and grab a seat if the numbers are good. I keep the notes on the game on my iphone. Thanks again, Mission. I think I offered to pay you but you turned it down. Anyways, any analysis in the future and I would have no problem paying you. If you published an article on it perhaps you could post a link.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

It was the average number of free games that had me stumped. They've put in a lot more machines with that game on it. It's in my rotation of games where I check the progressive numbers and grab a seat if the numbers are good. I keep the notes on the game on my iphone. Thanks again, Mission. I think I offered to pay you but you turned it down. Anyways, any analysis in the future and I would have no problem paying you. If you published an article on it perhaps you could post a link.

---

Thanks for chiming in! I wanted to kind of give you the option of chiming in, or not, so I didn't mention you by name. You're welcome for the analysis! I enjoyed doing it, it's not often a Keno game gives me any trouble, so that was fun.

Here's the article:

https://lcb.org/analyzing-keno-progressives

You've already read most of it, essentially. The only things really added are the introduction and the conclusion and the purpose of this article was to teach those interested how they can do the math for themselves. The nice thing about this particular game is that it includes the concepts of several games in one game, so by seeing how this one is done, someone interested can immediately know the methodology to analyze others. (Because several Keno games only have one of the components of this one)

In addition to not revealing the name of the game, I also simply called the Progressives, "Progressives 1-10," rather than calling them by the symbols used on the game.

As I understand it, someone either did their own analysis or the base return of the game is included on the machine and it agrees with my analysis, so that's good.

You might recall, but will see in the article, that I used a bit of a shortcut to determine the average number of free games. The way I did it was that I determined the average number of Free Games that would be retriggered on a per draw basis, then I took the average number of Free Games that would be added based on the average expected number added (per spin) multiplied by the fifteen initial Free Games. I then added that expected number to the fifteen and repeated the process for the expected number that had been added. I continued to repeat this process until the expected number that would be added became negligible. Specifically, the last step that I did would add an expected .00052257688 Free Games, which is about 1/1914th of a Free Game, so I stopped there.

As you have probably experienced, the number of Free Games that you will receive on a given occurrence can deviate greatly from this average. I believe there may have been a cap on the total number of Free Games that can be received, but I don't remember, and the cap will almost never become relevant anyway because the average is so low.

The other thing that happens is that a set of Free Games will have no retriggers whatsoever 67.1% of the time.

I believe you offered to pay me and I declined. In the article, I said that someone could PM me for rates if they want a Keno Game analyzed, but that's mainly to dissuade anyone who thinks they might be able to PM me out of the blue and get free work out of me. You and I have obviously known each other for years on the forums and spoken occasionally outside of the Forums, so I wasn't particularly inclined to charge you anything.

Also, if any party had PM'ed me for rates as a result of this article, but I expected the work to take less than an hour, I probably wouldn't charge them anything.*** I'd probably also not charge anything (even if it took more than an hour) if they agreed to let me publish my analysis without naming the game.

Anyway, like I mentioned in the above post yesterday, just because I haven't accepted payment for math work doesn't mean that I never would...but the only way I see myself doing that is if I couldn't publish my analysis in any way AND I was 100% confident that my results would be correct.

***Now that I think about it, someone did PM me because they saw this article. What they wanted figured out was a conditional progressive for an online game that I can't disclose the name of...it took me about five minutes to figure out, so I didn't charge them anything. It also wasn't a long enough analysis to be worth publishing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Mathematicians within the community have analyzed and explained that neither Singer's nor MDawg's claims are within the realm of the paranormal.

---

Still haven't really seen anything additional to this about the analysis and explanations from community mathematicians. If it is public record as coach belly claimed, it should be easy to add to these claims? Or are these things he is saying about MDawg and Rob Singer lies?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tominnv

Today, 04:32 PM

Still haven't really seen anything additional to this about the
analysis and explanations from community mathematicians.

---

No they are not lies, the examinations are here and on WOV,
just use the search function to find the discussions.

You're familiar with WOV, right?

You should be, as you just posted there 5 minutes before you posted here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom G

March 30th, 2021 at 4:27:47 PM

The math shows that this is true. Making $100 per day at baccarat would be $36,500 per year. That is the equivalent of earning a living at a job that pays $17.50 per hour; it is reasonable to say that is making a living. The baccarat player would have not days off, nor employee funded health care, social security benefits, or other things that come with the other ways people make a living. But the advantage would be, that after one years, instead of making $100 per day off of $50,000, the baccarat player would have $86,500 and could make $173 per day. They year after it would be even more. There are some people who do earn six figures from baccarat.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tominnv

Today, 04:32 PM

Still haven't really seen anything additional to this about the
analysis and explanations from community mathematicians.

---

No they are not lies, the examinations are here and on WOV,
just use the search function to find the discussions.

You're familiar with WOV, right?

You should be, as you just posted there 5 minutes before you posted here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom G

March 30th, 2021 at 4:27:47 PM

The math shows that this is true. Making $100 per day at baccarat would be $36,500 per year. That is the equivalent of earning a living at a job that pays $17.50 per hour; it is reasonable to say that is making a living. The baccarat player would have not days off, nor employee funded health care, social security benefits, or other things that come with the other ways people make a living. But the advantage would be, that after one years, instead of making $100 per day off of $50,000, the baccarat player would have $86,500 and could make $173 per day. They year after it would be even more. There are some people who do earn six figures from baccarat.

---

---

Using the search function does not turn up anything. It could be my error in searching, or it could be because what you said is a lie and that you are a liar. If you were honest, you could copy and paste (like you just did) and provide a link. But because you are a liar and your claim is a lie, it is obvious you aren't capable of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tominnv

Using the search function does not turn up anything. It could be my error in searching

---

Yes it would be your error in searching,
if you had actually used the search function.

Math experts have analyzed the claims,
their explanations appear in multiple threads.

The experts have been named recently on this site,
read through some recent threads and you'll find the names.

Use the search functions, review their posting histories,
and you'll find the discussions.

Your name-calling will not change the fact that the posts exist,
I cannot remove or modify them.

Now...lesson time is over, and it's time for your nap.

This is probably a lot of information for you to process,
you won't be so cranky after a nap and can concentrate better.

Happy hunting, I hope you find peace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The biggest lie ever told on VCT? It can never be topped:

"I really don't want to dwell on Singer."

As for narcissists all KJocchio has to do to find one is look in the mirror.

---

Let me tell you something Crimm. You embarrass yourself everyday. A real man would say "yeah I was wrong about Singer and the double up bug. He had some info that at the time made him seem credible, but as time has gone on new things have arisen, and I was wrong."

What the fuck is so hard about that? Singer is a professional and top notch troll. he knew all the troll plays. How to trick and manipulate people. So you got played by one of the best trolls because you gave him the benefit of doubt? Big deal. You be a man, admit it and move on. I mean the fact is YOU were proven right for all those many years, arguing his bullshit claims and then at the last minute you inexplicably jumped to the losing team. You snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory. You know that is backwards of what you are supposed to do. ;)

But you do what you gotta do Crimm, if it somehow makes you feel better, but you aren't fooling anyone.

---

Let me tell you something, KJocchio. You embarrass yourself everyday. A REAL man would say "Yeah, I was wrong about Singer and the double up bug. He knew things that no one else knew about the play. And as time has gone on no one has been able to explain his elevated knowledge of it. I was wrong and now believe it is likely Singer put down the double up play."

What the fuck is so hard about that, KJocchio?

Yes, Singer was a professional troll....just like you. You use troll tactics to try to get me to agree with you. You attack me over and over again. Call me all kinds of names. Insult my intelligence at every opportunity. TO GET ME TO CHANGE MY OPINION ON THE DOUBLE UP BUG. Like I'm supposed to obey your commands. It's not working for you, KJocchio. My opinion on the double up remains the same. Fuck off and die, bitch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Yes it would be your error in searching,
if you had actually used the search function.

---

I use the search function here to search for "mathematician mdawg rob singer" and not a single thing comes up. I then search for just "mathematician" and nine pages of results come up. None of the results in those nine pages have any analysis or explanations by mathematicians that you said.

If there was anything from mathematicians providing the analysis and explanations you claim, you would be able to easily link to it. But you will never do that, because your claims are lies. Now I bet you will respond like a typical liar, by refusing to provide any information to backup your claims, even though you say it exists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tominnv

[If there was anything from mathematicians providing the analysis and explanations you claim, you would be able to easily link to it.

---

Visit the link below.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forums

Join that forum, and reach out to me there.

That means make an account and start a thread on that forum.

I will provide the names of the mathematicians, and provide some links
to their comments on the members' claims that you are interested in,
as a reply within your thread.

Others will likely reply as well, as it's a popular topic over there.

See you then.

People should be careful when answering questions such as,"Are you an Advantage Player?" I answered a question like that, thought I'd be getting kudos for how much of an Advantage Player I was and got instead ragged and dragged so hard and called out as a FRAUD.... I was more of a Ploppy trying to come across as an Advantage Player, LMAO! :D :/