$2 FullPay dueces downtown

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

They aren't going to want to have their real name listed in any HoF, as that would be the end of their careers.

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For the most part this would be true, unless you plan on taking your career in a diffrent direction.

This begs the question, why did you ever conciser writing a book?

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

This begs the question, why did you ever conciser writing a book?

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Well, I wasn't going to use MY name....I was going to use yours. :rolleyes:

KJ, why don't you start a blackjack forum of your own. I think it would be successful. It would give Norm some competition. Kind of like LVBear who runs blackjackinfo, but he still manages to play blackjack.

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player

KJ, why don't you start a blackjack forum of your own. I think it would be successful. It would give Norm some competition. Kind of like LVBear who runs blackjackinfo, but he still manages to play blackjack.

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I have no interest in starting or running a forum. Especially now. In the past couple years it seems like there are a zillion trolls throughout the blackjack AP forum community. It may be a smaller number than it appears, using many handles, but there is definitely a group, who's only interest is to be disruptive. It seems like it is a fulltime job to stay on top of that.

Secondly, I don't think you can run a forum anonymously. Norm, Shackleford, Ken Smith at the original BJinfo, Don Schlesinger with his forum, all used there real name. Stanford Wong used a pen name or whatever you want to call it, but everyone knew who he was. LVBear uses his real name for his official duties at BJ21 and BJinfo. I am a fulltime professional player already fighting an uphill battle to protect my name and longevity.

And one other thing about all these people, big names in the blackjack community: I don't know that any of them were ever fulltime players or AP's. I think Don may have stated that he was for a while, but it couldn't have been that long with all the other things he has done and been mega successful at (more successful than blackjack). I am not sure what Shackleford considers himself at this point. But I am a fulltime player, Midwest. And between playing, scouting, networking, detailed records, I put in fulltime hours. After years of really grinding and puting in many hours, I have managed to get my career down to where I put in slightly less time and actually have some free time but I am not looking for a second fulltime (or even part-time) job or career that is going to pay next to nothing, with major headaches. :rolleyes:

Enough hijacking. Back to deuces...

https://i.imgur.com/79g381V.png

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

This begs the question, why did you ever conciser writing a book?

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Well, I wasn't going to use MY name....I was going to use yours. :rolleyes:

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I'm sure one could use a pen name in order to accept the Hall of Fame award. Or they could just simply change their name, shouldn't blackjack players Be doing that once in a while anyways? I basically don't see any difference between that and writing a book.
Machine players could change their names, however, there certainly would be some confusion when you hit a taxable if you had to use your social. I'm sure if you wanted to you could use a tax ID number along with their changed name and they would be all right.

Dancer wrote an article about the deuce play at DG:

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PD...YnWxMe1z0x3pg-

Decent write-up but a few queries. I thought those were two 5-plays and not 10-plays? Also, we don't know the casino's results and probably never will unless some journalist gets a factual look. Chances are they lost because so many good players were there. But if he's referring to Wynn when they put in $1 FPDW, they did not lose although they won very little. I'm sure the player base wasn't the best also.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Decent write-up but a few queries. I thought those were two 5-plays and not 10-plays? Also, we don't know the casino's results and probably never will unless some journalist gets a factual look. Chances are they lost because so many good players were there. But if he's referring to Wynn when they put in $1 FPDW, they did not lose although they won very little. I'm sure the player base wasn't the best also.

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It was 2 5 plays that were being played. There was 2 multi line games in front of those that had 10 play games. None of the 10 play was FPDW as far as I know. I think 10/6 DDB was available on the 10 play machines.

So, I found Mr. Dancer's article of interest, particularly some of the numbers. Since I have all but given up my VP play and what I used to do was pretty elementary, I have a few questions for those with more expertise in this field. Is 1000 HPH really standard? seems like a lot. ESPECIALLY hour after hour.

So Dancers number using this 1000 hph results in expectation of $76/hr. Again, I am questioning this 1000 hph, and also wondering about the error rate with such play, especially for hours on end. For the sake of appeasing me, lets go with 80% of that. That comes down to $60/hr. And that is divided between team player and team management. I am not going to ask how that works. But certainly each side is getting a percentage of that expectation. That is not a lot of money. :confused:

I mean you would have thought the way this play was the talk of the town a week or so ago, this was a play with hourly expectation in the $100's range. :rolleyes:

I mean what I do with card counting works out to an hourly in that same neighborhood. I spend roughly 30 hours a week chasing expectation of about $1600 a week. Doing the math, that comes out to 53ish dollars (in expectation) an hour. So same ballpark, although I am not splitting that with anyone. So I am not poo-pooing that amount of expectation, again, it is just from all the hype I was expecting more.

Am I missing something? :confused:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

So, I found Mr. Dancer's article of interest, particularly some of the numbers. Since I have all but given up my VP play and what I used to do was pretty elementary, I have a few questions for those with more expertise in this field. Is 1000 HPH really standard? seems like a lot. ESPECIALLY hour after hour.

So Dancers number using this 1000 hph results in expectation of $76/hr. Again, I am questioning this 1000 hph, and also wondering about the error rate with such play, especially for hours on end. For the sake of appeasing me, lets go with 80% of that. That comes down to $60/hr. And that is divided between team player and team management. I am not going to ask how that works. But certainly each side is getting a percentage of that expectation. That is not a lot of money. :confused:

I mean you would have thought the way this play was the talk of the town a week or so ago, this was a play with hourly expectation in the $100's range. :rolleyes:

I mean what I do with card counting works out to an hourly in that same neighborhood. I spend roughly 30 hours a week chasing expectation of about $1600 a week. Doing the math, that comes out to 53ish dollars (in expectation) an hour. So same ballpark, although I am not splitting that with anyone. So I am not poo-pooing that amount of expectation, again, it is just from all the hype I was expecting more.

Am I missing something? :confused:

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1000 hph is very common and easy to maintain with a great level of accuracy for a regular player. 800 hph is a very leisurely pace. The math is accurate for the value of the play. That is why Piggy Banker was getting laughed at for his 100's per hour minimum claims. It is not that great. That is why many machine AP's didn't play it. One thing about a play like that compared to Blackjack is you get to n0 much quicker time wise. As far as plays available to VP progressive chasers and pro VP players it was a highly desirable play.

Thanks for the quick reply MaxPen.

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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Thank you mickeycrimm. This is exactly what I was getting at.

When I play it is mostly 10 play. I can easily get 4000 dealt hands 40k total hands in a 4 hour period. I can be done in 3 1/2 hours if the machine has a turbo speed. I do not consider myself fast by any means. When I play, I don't jawjack, go to the restroom, and hardly ever order anything to drink.
If I was to play something like the DTG it would only be in 6 hour sessions max.

1k HPH isn’t hard, at least if you regularly play VP. Idk what speed the machines were set to, though. Tough to quantify errors, but that shouldn’t be much of a problem. If you’re fast enough to do 1k HPH then you probably know the strategy pretty good.

The play is pretty good or at least “good enough” since it doesn’t really take any effort, scouting, anything like that. As long as you know the strategy, you just sit and play. You don’t have to travel nor do you have to return several times to pick up freeplay. I don’t know who all was there playing, but I imagine many were the slot-vulturing types who are walking the strip or downtown day in and day out, really hustling to find their plays.


As far as teams and stuff go, I don’t have a whole bunch of experience with all that stuff but it seems like fewer teams are doing the “management, players, scouts, employees, etc.” type thing and it’s more or less “everyone has equal action”. Someone might partner up with another AP (or a few) for a few hours of play and at the end they divvy up the money accordingly.

Dancer has written about machines getting 24/7 action and players agreeing on timesharing them. Like 3 players will agree to take eight hour shifts per day but they're not really splitting the money. Each player is on his own with that.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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Why don't you play at top speed?

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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Why don't you play at top speed?

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I make mistakes when I try to play to fast.

Speed at a VP machine can help or hurt you, depending on how long you stay on without taking adequate breaks in order to get another fresh start. People like to think that accuracy doesn't take a hit after the first hour, but it does. Just how significant it is will always be argued about.

I've always wondered about the speed aspect of playing +EV vp. So when the Reserve opened in the late '90's and had lots of positive games along with turbo speed settings, I asked a local friend to monitor me as I played "fast" on one of the speedy machines at the Monkey Bar (which is still there under a different name but still has the monkeys etched under the bar).

I wanted to do a two hour test. She (an AP on a vp team at the time) logged any hold mistakes I made. After the 1st hour I made 11 hold errors. No telling if she made any mistakes either way or not, but she did identify that one of my "errors" resulted in a FH, for whatever that's worth. As for me, I was mentally exhausted after the first hour and decided not to go on. I booked 1400 hph, which seems slow compared to the very dubious reports of people supposedly doing 2000-3000 hph.

If you're comfortable playing at an 800 or 1000 clip, then there's nothing wrong with going with that. I'm not playing for income any more and I certainly wasn't looking for speed from '04 - '09, so I'm comfortable with 500 hph. Everyone has a point at which accuracy is overtaken by speed. And time always takes over both.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I make mistakes when I try to play to fast.

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For me, at least on one particular type of machine, the fastest speed just throws my eyes off completely. I can process the cards that are dealt faster (overall) on the second-fastest speed, even though they come out more slowly. I think BECAUSE they come out more slowly.

The fastest speed is like the first couple cards come out, and that's fine, but then the last few spit out and my vision just jumps back to the left, when I try to put my eyes back where they should be, I briefly see two images. I'm not dyslexic and actually read much faster than many people can. It's just something that the images do that screws me up. I also haven't been able to replicate this problem on anything except video poker.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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This discussion sort of mirrors a major point I have been making in the blackjack count debates for years. Error rate, or more precisely higher error rate associated with certain activates like playing too fast or in the case of the blackjack debates, using a higher, even slightly more taxing count.

In the blackjack debates, proponents of a higher, more complicated count (even if only slightly more complicated) want to count the benefit of any counts like a slight increase in win rate, while completely ignoring any negatives like a higher error rate. Only accepting the good and ignoring the bad or negatives. :rolleyes:

And it is the same thing with VP play speed. There HAS to be a higher error rate with playing faster, or in the case of blackjack using even a slightly more difficult count. There HAS TO BE! Proponents just don't want to accept that. But we are human beings. If you could video tape play, both VP play and blackjack play, I could prove this fact, but without doing that I am just getting a lot of guys that say, "oh no not me. I can play as fast as I want or a much tougher count just as efficiently." Hog wash!

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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This discussion sort of mirrors a major point I have been making in the blackjack count debates for years. Error rate, or more precisely higher error rate associated with certain activates like playing too fast or in the case of the blackjack debates, using a higher, even slightly more taxing count.

In the blackjack debates, proponents of a higher, more complicated count (even if only slightly more complicated) want to count the benefit of any counts like a slight increase in win rate, while completely ignoring any negatives like a higher error rate. Only accepting the good and ignoring the bad or negatives. :rolleyes:

And it is the same thing with VP play speed. There HAS to be a higher error rate with playing faster, or in the case of blackjack using even a slightly more difficult count. There HAS TO BE! Proponents just don't want to accept that. But we are human beings. If you could video tape play, both VP play and blackjack play, I could prove this fact, but without doing that I am just getting a lot of guys that say, "oh no not me. I can play as fast as I want or a much tougher count just as efficiently." Hog wash!

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There is. I'm with you on this one. I've missed TWO royals- one, because the card didn't register when I could swear I tapped it and another from hitting the play button too fast after realizing I made the wrong choice. Not to mention other hands. Also, since we just finished the double up feature discussion, I lost $800 by accidentally hitting that feature, then getting in too big a hurry and hitting yes on the are you sure question. When I realized my mistake, the host said I had to play it out. Then, I've had a machine pick a card (glitch) I didn't choose and ruin the hand. PLUS, I have several times won hands that were huge by luckily changing picks at the last second before I made a bad play. And finally, a not so obvious choice that sometimes changes a selection.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing one hand every 3 seconds is easy to do and that equates to 1200 HPH. So 1000 HPH is not so hard. I don't even use the top speeds to do it. If the game has 4 speeds I'm usually using 2nd highest. But if you play 6 hours a day how many bathroom breaks do you need? Can you stay off your phone? Can you keep from jaw jacking with the players around you? Even tho I play at 1000 HPH I never get out 6000 hands in a six hour session. Maybe 4500.

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This discussion sort of mirrors a major point I have been making in the blackjack count debates for years. Error rate, or more precisely higher error rate associated with certain activates like playing too fast or in the case of the blackjack debates, using a higher, even slightly more taxing count.

In the blackjack debates, proponents of a higher, more complicated count (even if only slightly more complicated) want to count the benefit of any counts like a slight increase in win rate, while completely ignoring any negatives like a higher error rate. Only accepting the good and ignoring the bad or negatives. :rolleyes:

And it is the same thing with VP play speed. There HAS to be a higher error rate with playing faster, or in the case of blackjack using even a slightly more difficult count. There HAS TO BE! Proponents just don't want to accept that. But we are human beings. If you could video tape play, both VP play and blackjack play, I could prove this fact, but without doing that I am just getting a lot of guys that say, "oh no not me. I can play as fast as I want or a much tougher count just as efficiently." Hog wash!

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Generally kew, vp players who are infatuated with speed being a major key will say "error rates are small enough to render them almost insignificant". What they neglect to say is that's mostly true only for the first hour of play. Error rates increase exponentially from there. Speedy play is an overrated concept unless it is fully understood.

This is why it's important not to get caught up in this "speed" thing. Each player knows or at least should know their own comfort zone. They should know when to slow down some, know when to take a good break, and know when too much is too much. Just like the old stereo system power amps of yesteryear that used more power to make up for inefficiencies vs. the ones of today that use much less power because they now incorporate greater efficiency, players should understand their most efficient balance.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Speed at a VP machine can help or hurt you, depending on how long you stay on without taking adequate breaks in order to get another fresh start. People like to think that accuracy doesn't take a hit after the first hour, but it does. Just how significant it is will always be argued about.

I've always wondered about the speed aspect of playing +EV vp. So when the Reserve opened in the late '90's and had lots of positive games along with turbo speed settings, I asked a local friend to monitor me as I played "fast" on one of the speedy machines at the Monkey Bar (which is still there under a different name but still has the monkeys etched under the bar).

I wanted to do a two hour test. She (an AP on a vp team at the time) logged any hold mistakes I made. After the 1st hour I made 11 hold errors. No telling if she made any mistakes either way or not, but she did identify that one of my "errors" resulted in a FH, for whatever that's worth. As for me, I was mentally exhausted after the first hour and decided not to go on. I booked 1400 hph, which seems slow compared to the very dubious reports of people supposedly doing 2000-3000 hph.

If you're comfortable playing at an 800 or 1000 clip, then there's nothing wrong with going with that. I'm not playing for income any more and I certainly wasn't looking for speed from '04 - '09, so I'm comfortable with 500 hph. Everyone has a point at which accuracy is overtaken by speed. And time always takes over both.

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when the reserve first opened they had a bank of full pay Deuces Wild on the $5 Denominations. I played them for as long as they were available but I can't remember exactly how long they lasted, it wasn't very long.
They had a $5 full pay Deuces Wild in Lake Tahoe 4 quite a while, I rarely seen anybody else playing it. I can't remember if it was at Harvey's or Harrah's. I do believe it was at Harveys. The host was Comping the s*** out of me including a 20% rebate on any daily losses. The comps were good at the gift shop where you could buy gold, watches and other jewelry. If and when I want to buy stuff at the mall They would come that stuff off as well, within reason of course. They took care of all of your airfare, send limos to and from the airport and everything. I still have some limited edition hand-numbered Walt Disney watches I got from the gift shop. I certainly wish I still had the gold chains. They also had the plus EV Williams Blackjack machines at a few different locations in Reno and Tahoe. I enjoyed those much more than I did the Deuces Wild you can let it ride up into the thousands of dollars in which I did on occasions. I regret not taking much more advantage of the situation at the time. Then again, that could have got me 86ed and I wouldn't have been making money on other things I was doing. The way I did it I never had any heat and they treated me well even after the play was over.

Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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What tips did you give me? What year was it?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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What tips did you give me? What year was it?

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In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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What tips did you give me? What year was it?

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In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?

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Wasn't the Belle and Edgewater either a half a percent or 1% cash back? I can't really remember what the card was anymore. I do know they had point multipliers, drawings and other promotions where you could play full pay deuces. Now that these stingy casinos have chopped up all the VP pay tables I have no clue why the hell they won't GIVE 1 -2 % cash back on the card to their players. Especially the slot players. I would do everything I could to get more people in the door playing longer. I have to believe that someone getting back a nice chunk of money at the end of their trip is more likely to go back to that location next time they visit.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Won about 15k on the deuces at TheReserve
This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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What tips did you give me? What year was it?

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In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?

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Clue....I'm pretty sure Piggy Banker has more BULLSHIT than a rodeo.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

What tips did you give me? What year was it?

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In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?

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Clue....I'm pretty sure Piggy Banker has more BULLSHIT than a rodeo.

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are you enjoying your 7-Day suspension from Wizard of Vegas?������

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?

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Clue....I'm pretty sure Piggy Banker has more BULLSHIT than a rodeo.

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are you enjoying your 7-Day suspension from Wizard of Vegas?������

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Pretty much. I might not even return to that commie infested joint.:)

In 2000 the Atlantis had two $100 machines, coin-in of course, that I played 10/6 ddbp on twice. They also had 10/7 dbp, FPDW and others on them. On my second visit all games were still there on both except FPDW.

A suspension from WoV is a laugh. My first one was for writing "WTF" in response to a wizard post I didn't agree with. They're such sensitive little liberal sissies over there. I really do believe several of those moderators who can't get real jobs, actually run off to their "safe rooms" and whimper for 5-10 minutes after reading an "offensive" post before coming back and making believe they've got their acts together.

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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C'mon, Pig Shit. Name some games you taught me. Then explain why twenty years later you're on this site asking me to provide you with playable numbers. You can't figure that shit out for yourself but you want everyone to believe you taught me something. And 20 years later you're still having to play deuces? Fuck off, bitch.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

This was the same timeframe when I was giving Crimm tips on advantage play in Laughlin.

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C'mon, Pig Shit. Name some games you taught me. Then explain why twenty years later you're on this site asking me to provide you with playable numbers. You can't figure that shit out for yourself but you want everyone to believe you taught me something. And 20 years later you're still having to play deuces? Fuck off, bitch.

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DING DING DING,,,,,,if bullshit was pig shit, a Smithfield farm operation couldn't keep up with this PIGGY BANKER dude.....lol :)

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

What tips did you give me? What year was it?

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In those years why would you be playing at the Reserve when Gold River had 1% cashack and the Oasis had .5% deuce progressives?

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Wasn't the Belle and Edgewater either a half a percent or 1% cash back? I can't really remember what the card was anymore. I do know they had point multipliers, drawings and other promotions where you could play full pay deuces. Now that these stingy casinos have chopped up all the VP pay tables I have no clue why the hell they won't GIVE 1 -2 % cash back on the card to their players. Especially the slot players. I would do everything I could to get more people in the door playing longer. I have to believe that someone getting back a nice chunk of money at the end of their trip is more likely to go back to that location next time they visit.

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The Belle and Edgewater was .25% with multiplier days. The Belle had FPDW and for awhile Edgewater had 17/10 Loose Deuces. Golden Nugget had FPDW with .2% card plus one 2X day per week. Gold River/ River Palms had FPDW with .3333% card, 3X points on Thursdays, 2X points on Fridays. Pioneer had FPDW with .16666% card and multiplier days.

Played all the above mentioned

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Played all the above mentioned

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I'm very sorry to hear that considering the fact that there was stuff 25 times better. Hell, Mixed in in with those full pay Deuces at the Colorado Belle Edgewater and various machines and locations in Laughlin there was an absolute no-risk thousand dollar a day play. Me and my girlfriend and someone I had working for me we're probably the only ones playing it. Most people couldn't figure it out but it wasn't for lack of trying. Their constant attempts was actually what killed the play eventually. I actually got a crappy place across the river and just live there for a while so we wouldn't have to travel back and forth to Vegas so often and we could bring our pets with us. One day I might actually tell the story when I'm certain it's not a possibility anymore.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Played all the above mentioned

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I'm very sorry to hear that considering the fact that there was stuff 25 times better. Hell, Mixed in in with those full pay Deuces at the Colorado Belle Edgewater and various machines and locations in Laughlin there was an absolute no-risk thousand dollar a day play. Me and my girlfriend and someone I had working for me we're probably the only ones playing it.

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The vp tournaments at Gold River?

Ok, so back to this downtown GRAND thing. Is this play now over and dead?

Also something I have been meaning to bring up. It was speculated in this thread that DT Grand might be on the sale block and the purpose of this "action" might have been to artificially inflate player and coin-in numbers to woo a perspective buyer.

Not mentioned was the rather extensive expansion that is underway at DT Grand. That kind of expense (doubling of rooms for a place that is always dead), seems to not make sense, and isn't the kind of investment that is recouped short-term....like a pending sale.

Any thoughts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Ok, so back to this downtown GRAND thing. Is this play now over and dead?

Also something I have been meaning to bring up. It was speculated in this thread that DT Grand might be on the sale block and the purpose of this "action" might have been to artificially inflate player and coin-in numbers to woo a perspective buyer.

Not mentioned was the rather extensive expansion that is underway at DT Grand. That kind of expense (doubling of rooms for a place that is always dead), seems to not make sense, and isn't the kind of investment that is recouped short-term....like a pending sale.

Any thoughts?

---

It was simply a slot director that didn't realize the machines had a positive setting.

Eddie G. rumored to be the biggest winner overall on the play.

Krackman had an article in Gaming Today where he mentioned he spoke to nobody that lost on the play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Eddie G. rumored to be the biggest winner overall on the play.

Krackman had an article in Gaming Today where he mentioned he spoke to nobody that lost on the play.

---

Odd. Nobody but someone with a computer readout knows who was the biggest winner from that play. Gambling rumors are like fishermen rumors.

Whoever "Krackman" is....you could line up a thousand players who played that and come up with 998 who claimed to have won. More than likely, he asked people who came back and said "I was playing a $180/hour play" or something similar.

We need a JOURNALIST to go into DTG and ask them to show the real outcome and then write about it--not just repeat hearsay, rumors, or supposition. Where is the Anthony Curtis crowd? And GT hasn't had a reputable, persistent, investigative, interesting columnist since I left. Just compare the size of yesteryear's publications to those pathetic little fish-wrappers they embarrassingly put out today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PIGGY BANKER

Eddie G. rumored to be the biggest winner overall on the play.

Krackman had an article in Gaming Today where he mentioned he spoke to nobody that lost on the play.

---

Odd. Nobody but someone with a computer readout knows who was the biggest winner from that play. Gambling rumors are like fishermen rumors.

Whoever "Krackman" is....you could line up a thousand players who played that and come up with 998 who claimed to have won. More than likely, he asked people who came back and said "I was playing a $180/hour play" or something similar.

We need a JOURNALIST to go into DTG and ask them to show the real outcome and then write about it--not just repeat hearsay, rumors, or supposition. Where is the Anthony Curtis crowd? And GT hasn't had a reputable, persistent, investigative, interesting columnist since I left. Just compare the size of yesteryear's publications to those pathetic little fish-wrappers they embarrassingly put out today.

---

Krackman is a morbidly obese sports betting tout who hangs out at South Point who was featured on the showtime show ACTION. Claims to be a professional bettor, is definitely a tout.

I only put in one session before they shut off the points. I lost in the neighborhood of $3,500 playing the $2 denominations. I was getting absolutely raped. A member of this forum was actually watching me play, he didn't play because he really didn't know the strategy and didn't want to slow me down asking for help. Obviously he's a big ass Schleprock.

I really thought the shit was going to go down after what I have observed that night when I left and didnt didn't go back. I really don't like grinding out all day on video poker anymore anyways, but had they not cut off the points I probably would have put some more time in.

I find it hard to believe that everyone who put in a decent amount of time all came out ahead. However, that doesn't matter. If they keep putting time in playing positive expectation plays they will end up in the black.

If you enter the AP World thinking every play you make that you'll come out a winner you should probably rethink choosing Advantage play. Yes, there are some plays where you're almost guaranteed to come out ahead but if expand your toolbox enough it's highly unlikely you'll be able to avoid good situations that aren't risky with variance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

A member of this forum was actually watching me play,

---

Maybe more than one member of this forum....who knows. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I find it hard to believe that everyone who put in a decent amount of time all came out ahead. However, that doesn't matter. If they keep putting time in playing positive expectation plays they will end up in the black.

---

Positive expectation doesn't mean you come out on top in the short run or a small trial size. I know you know this Axel....I am just saying. :rolleyes:

I am not sure you can always trust AP's when it comes to their results on these promotions. I tend to trust people that have built up some credibility with me and that I find credible with their longer term results if they share any, but with short term results, like a promotion, no one wants to admit they were the ones on THAT side of the bell curve.

Reminds me of a blackjack promotion in Connecticut about 10 years ago. I forget if it was Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun. I want to say Mohegan Sun. I also forget the exact promotion. It had to do with doubling down I think. Like you could double down for more money, maybe triple down on first 2 cards. Whatever it was the game was +EV off the top.

So this promo was for 1 day. A 24 hour period running midnight to midnight. I took the train up as I always did when visiting either Connecticut casino, arriving probably about 10:30 pm. The place was packed. Not a seat to be had on a weekday night. It was pretty much a card counter convention. I eventually got a seat, maybe 1 am. And almost immediately started getting my ass kicked. I was like losing every double down opportunity. By 6am I was down more than 5 figured which was a lot for me at the time, and I was realizing I might not have brought enough money. :(

During the course of the morning and early afternoon, things turned and I slowly clawed back to even. I think I was in the black for a short time late in the afternoon. And then early evening, I went backwards again. I quit around 8pm as I was tired and wanted to catch the last train out. I was down a few thousand I forget.

So in the days after on the blackjack forums, not a single person admitted to losing except me. Everyone made a fortune. I was apparently the only player that lost. Highly unlikely. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

A member of this forum was actually watching me play,

---

Maybe more than one member of this forum....who knows. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I find it hard to believe that everyone who put in a decent amount of time all came out ahead. However, that doesn't matter. If they keep putting time in playing positive expectation plays they will end up in the black.

---

Positive expectation doesn't mean you come out on top in the short run or a small trial size. I know you know this Axel....I am just saying. :rolleyes:

I am not sure you can always trust AP's when it comes to their results on these promotions. I tend to trust people that have built up some credibility with me and that I find credible with their longer term results if they share any, but with short term results, like a promotion, no one wants to admit they were the ones on THAT side of the bell curve.

Reminds me of a blackjack promotion in Connecticut about 10 years ago. I forget if it was Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun. I want to say Mohegan Sun. I also forget the exact promotion. It had to do with doubling down I think. Like you could double down for more money, maybe triple down on first 2 cards. Whatever it was the game was +EV off the top.

So this promo was for 1 day. A 24 hour period running midnight to midnight. I took the train up as I always did when visiting either Connecticut casino, arriving probably about 10:30 pm. The place was packed. Not a seat to be had on a weekday night. It was pretty much a card counter convention. I eventually got a seat, maybe 1 am. And almost immediately started getting my ass kicked. I was like losing every double down opportunity. By 6am I was down more than 5 figured which was a lot for me at the time, and I was realizing I might not have brought enough money. :(

During the course of the morning and early afternoon, things turned and I slowly clawed back to even. I think I was in the black for a short time late in the afternoon. And then early evening, I went backwards again. I quit around 8pm as I was tired and wanted to catch the last train out. I was down a few thousand I forget.

So in the days after on the blackjack forums, not a single person admitted to losing except me. Everyone made a fortune. I was apparently the only player that lost. Highly unlikely. :rolleyes:

---

A buddy of mine and me beat that promo for around 8,000 between the two of us, was a good getaway experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

There is an Andrew Neeme video. (I guess he is like #1 maybe #2 poker cash game vlogger). Doesn't play super-big, but plays mid-stakes. Typical grinder who can make a decent living for himself but could do it elsewhere if he applied himself. Anyway, I had heard that he put a new video out that discussed this issue of private games in public cardrooms and how they fuck everything up except for a really small number of players. (And arguably the bad players in those games actually lose $ at a slower rate) Anyway.. so I click on video and the first shot is of a 1800 machine receipt from the DTG. He talks about video poker. He talks about the bar down there and drops the name [Go check out Every Woman Band btw when they play. Love em]. Anyway, Andrew's thing looked like a paid advertisement, or perhaps he is looking to become an AP after his whole discussion of the private game situation in Vegas.

I'd post a link but I'm too lazy. Didn't watch the whole thing either.

---

By the way this post gave you away

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

There is an Andrew Neeme video. (I guess he is like #1 maybe #2 poker cash game vlogger). Doesn't play super-big, but plays mid-stakes. Typical grinder who can make a decent living for himself but could do it elsewhere if he applied himself. Anyway, I had heard that he put a new video out that discussed this issue of private games in public cardrooms and how they fuck everything up except for a really small number of players. (And arguably the bad players in those games actually lose $ at a slower rate) Anyway.. so I click on video and the first shot is of a 1800 machine receipt from the DTG. He talks about video poker. He talks about the bar down there and drops the name [Go check out Every Woman Band btw when they play. Love em]. Anyway, Andrew's thing looked like a paid advertisement, or perhaps he is looking to become an AP after his whole discussion of the private game situation in Vegas.

I'd post a link but I'm too lazy. Didn't watch the whole thing either.

---

By the way this post gave you away

---

Okey Dokey brainiac.

I guess thats your thing. Can't hold your own on a forum so you try to dox people.

Wow what a creepy ass dude you are.

And yet again you show who really has the mental issues. You're apparently reading through all my old posts ?!?! Jesus dude. Go get all the pussy with your big dick and everything else you do. Far better use of your time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

There is an Andrew Neeme video. (I guess he is like #1 maybe #2 poker cash game vlogger). Doesn't play super-big, but plays mid-stakes. Typical grinder who can make a decent living for himself but could do it elsewhere if he applied himself. Anyway, I had heard that he put a new video out that discussed this issue of private games in public cardrooms and how they fuck everything up except for a really small number of players. (And arguably the bad players in those games actually lose $ at a slower rate) Anyway.. so I click on video and the first shot is of a 1800 machine receipt from the DTG. He talks about video poker. He talks about the bar down there and drops the name [Go check out Every Woman Band btw when they play. Love em]. Anyway, Andrew's thing looked like a paid advertisement, or perhaps he is looking to become an AP after his whole discussion of the private game situation in Vegas.

I'd post a link but I'm too lazy. Didn't watch the whole thing either.

---

By the way this post gave you away

---

Okey Dokey brainiac.

I guess thats your thing. Can't hold your own on a forum so you try to dox people.

Wow what a creepy ass dude you are.

And yet again you show who really has the mental issues. You're apparently reading through all my old posts ?!?! Jesus dude. Go get all the pussy with your big dick and everything else you do. Far better use of your time.

---

You seem obsessed with my cock. This is the second time today you have referenced it. It’s ok I’m used to it.

Query, has this Singer cat always been such a buffoon, hey hey????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soxfan

Query, has this Singer cat always been such a buffoon, hey hey????

---

That Singer cat is dead on this forum. Run over by a car, dead in the street. Might have been a Newell RV that ran him over. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soxfan

Query, has this Singer cat always been such a buffoon, hey hey????

---

That Singer cat is dead on this forum. Run over by a car, dead in the street. Might have been a Newell RV that ran him over. :rolleyes:

---

This forum is dead. Run over by a car, dead in the street. But it's hopping over at GF since Rob moved over there. You guys are up all night posting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by soxfan

Query, has this Singer cat always been such a buffoon, hey hey????

---

That Singer cat is dead on this forum. Run over by a car, dead in the street. Might have been a Newell RV that ran him over. :rolleyes:

---

This forum is dead. Run over by a car, dead in the street. But it's hopping over at GF since Rob moved over there. You guys are up all night posting.

---

I am happy to post on this forum, if there are any discussions that aren't about climate change. I have even tried to start a couple discussions, but all you guys seem to care about is politics and climate change, neither of which interests me much and neither what this forum is supposed to be about. I give you credit to for posting in your road trip pictures thread, but boom, the discussion and all new posts go right back to climate change.

You want to discuss something AP wise, here I have something. It probably belongs in the WoV thread but I am going to stick it right here.

A couple - 3 years, before covid so maybe 3 years, my brother and I were playing a side bet blackjack game in Colorado that someone had shared with us. They were allowing players to place a side bet up to the amount of their regular bet, which when placed at the right strategic times, made the game very profitable. So after a couple weeks of camping out in crappy motels in Colorado and more and more AP's joining the hit parade, Shackleford revealed the play at WoV and how to beat it, complete with all the math, the way he does. Within like 2 days the sidebet limits were reduced to 25% of your main bet, which all but erased the profit margin. It was just barely +EV. I left, my brother stayed for another few days.

I was pretty pissed at Shackleford, but didn't make a big deal of it. He has done this type of thing before. Well this week he did the exact same thing. I had just got wind of this play and my brother and I were discussing if we wanted to spend some time in Colorado when, Shackleford revealed the play and all the math....again! While it didn't effect me this time as far as yanking a play out from under us, I bet it effected some playing. Why does he do this shit? and why does he get a pass from the AP community?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

This forum is dead. Run over by a car, dead in the street. But it's hopping over at GF since Rob moved over there. You guys are up all night posting.

---

It's tough to post here because some of us show everyone how to beat all forms of games/gaming but nobody believes it.
You can't beat Roulette.
You can't beat the Lottery.
You can't beat Sports Parlays.
You can't beat Bingo.
You can't beat Horse Racing... etc. etc.
It's funny because all I ever see is examples of people beating everything.
Keep your chin up Tasha and don't believe the naysayers.
It turns out you can beat the Lottery and many other "unbeatable" games.
You just have to find the right angle.
You don't believe Employees can beat the Sports Book for 45 Million or that someone can beat the Lottery for 27 Million???
Think Again.
Been Done and Proven over and over, time and time again.
For Your Information the Dodgers went on a 13-0 run against the Run Line recently.
But you know... that sort of thing is impossible and nobody on this forum posted at the beginning of the season that you should hammer the Dodgers Run Line.
Nobody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akFS0odjAHs

Even people who aren't cheating, professionals or exploiting some promotion can crush the casino and get barred...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfLjgaR1ihg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Even people who aren't cheating, professionals or exploiting some promotion can crush the casino and get barred...

---

Pretty good Rogan episode Monet with first time guest guitar virtuoso and former Metallica member Dave Mustaine - please disregard this post if you have already listened to this podcast (excerpt below):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXywpYF-A-U

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

You want to discuss something AP wise, here I have something. It probably belongs in the WoV thread but I am going to stick it right here.

A couple - 3 years, before covid so maybe 3 years, my brother and I were playing a side bet blackjack game in Colorado that someone had shared with us. They were allowing players to place a side bet up to the amount of their regular bet, which when placed at the right strategic times, made the game very profitable. So after a couple weeks of camping out in crappy motels in Colorado and more and more AP's joining the hit parade, Shackleford revealed the play at WoV and how to beat it, complete with all the math, the way he does. Within like 2 days the sidebet limits were reduced to 25% of your main bet, which all but erased the profit margin. It was just barely +EV. I left, my brother stayed for another few days.

I was pretty pissed at Shackleford, but didn't make a big deal of it. He has done this type of thing before. Well this week he did the exact same thing. I had just got wind of this play and my brother and I were discussing if we wanted to spend some time in Colorado when, Shackleford revealed the play and all the math....again! While it didn't effect me this time as far as yanking a play out from under us, I bet it effected some playing. Why does he do this shit? and why does he get a pass from the AP community?

---

Take a few seconds to think about it, and the answer presents itself. When people do this stuff (as Stanford Wong did with teaser ranges most professionals knew about, but the public did not), it's for a variation of one of the following reasons:

1) They get more value out of the exposing of the play than not exposing it. That value can be non-material value, such as reputation, vanity, more views, or it can be directly material as in garnering side contracts with casinos as a consultant.

2) They treat the entire AP game as some competition they want to "win." If they aren't exploiting a play and other people are, they expose it.

3) They lack the funding to directly exploit various plays, although they are aware of them. A combination of reputation-seeking, vanity, and treating other APs as competition leads them to expose the plays.

4) They may have funding, but they lack the psychological makeup, discipline, and possibly physical abilities to handle certain plays effectively. Or overall they are actually failed APs because they have the Fred Flintstone degenerate gambling thing going on. So they act as if they are APs in a sense, but they know they really are not, and they expose the plays.


I mean, really, do you see Michael Shackleford as an effective AP doing almost anything? That Burning Man style of persona is usually going to get you squashed in the long run. If you don't have some streetwise sixth sense, you're going to go down no matter your math skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

You want to discuss something AP wise, here I have something. It probably belongs in the WoV thread but I am going to stick it right here.

A couple - 3 years, before covid so maybe 3 years, my brother and I were playing a side bet blackjack game in Colorado that someone had shared with us. They were allowing players to place a side bet up to the amount of their regular bet, which when placed at the right strategic times, made the game very profitable. So after a couple weeks of camping out in crappy motels in Colorado and more and more AP's joining the hit parade, Shackleford revealed the play at WoV and how to beat it, complete with all the math, the way he does. Within like 2 days the sidebet limits were reduced to 25% of your main bet, which all but erased the profit margin. It was just barely +EV. I left, my brother stayed for another few days.

I was pretty pissed at Shackleford, but didn't make a big deal of it. He has done this type of thing before. Well this week he did the exact same thing. I had just got wind of this play and my brother and I were discussing if we wanted to spend some time in Colorado when, Shackleford revealed the play and all the math....again! While it didn't effect me this time as far as yanking a play out from under us, I bet it effected some playing. Why does he do this shit? and why does he get a pass from the AP community?

---

Take a few seconds to think about it, and the answer presents itself. When people do this stuff (as Stanford Wong did with teaser ranges most professionals knew about, but the public did not), it's for a variation of one of the following reasons:

1) They get more value out of the exposing of the play than not exposing it. That value can be non-material value, such as reputation, vanity, more views, or it can be directly material as in garnering side contracts with casinos as a consultant.

2) They treat the entire AP game as some competition they want to "win." If they aren't exploiting a play and other people are, they expose it.

3) They lack the funding to directly exploit various plays, although they are aware of them. A combination of reputation-seeking, vanity, and treating other APs as competition leads them to expose the plays.

4) They may have funding, but they lack the psychological makeup, discipline, and possibly physical abilities to handle certain plays effectively. Or overall they are actually failed APs because they have the Fred Flintstone degenerate gambling thing going on. So they act as if they are APs in a sense, but they know they really are not, and they expose the plays.


I mean, really, do you see Michael Shackleford as an effective AP doing almost anything? That Burning Man style of persona is usually going to get you squashed in the long run. If you don't have some streetwise sixth sense, you're going to go down no matter your math skills.

---

When I explained to Shack that one needs a contingency plan, per the small chance, for defending oneself when out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses....he took riding a freight train off his bucket list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

You want to discuss something AP wise, here I have something. It probably belongs in the WoV thread but I am going to stick it right here.

A couple - 3 years, before covid so maybe 3 years, my brother and I were playing a side bet blackjack game in Colorado that someone had shared with us. They were allowing players to place a side bet up to the amount of their regular bet, which when placed at the right strategic times, made the game very profitable. So after a couple weeks of camping out in crappy motels in Colorado and more and more AP's joining the hit parade, Shackleford revealed the play at WoV and how to beat it, complete with all the math, the way he does. Within like 2 days the sidebet limits were reduced to 25% of your main bet, which all but erased the profit margin. It was just barely +EV. I left, my brother stayed for another few days.

I was pretty pissed at Shackleford, but didn't make a big deal of it. He has done this type of thing before. Well this week he did the exact same thing. I had just got wind of this play and my brother and I were discussing if we wanted to spend some time in Colorado when, Shackleford revealed the play and all the math....again! While it didn't effect me this time as far as yanking a play out from under us, I bet it effected some playing. Why does he do this shit? and why does he get a pass from the AP community?

---

Take a few seconds to think about it, and the answer presents itself. When people do this stuff (as Stanford Wong did with teaser ranges most professionals knew about, but the public did not), it's for a variation of one of the following reasons:

1) They get more value out of the exposing of the play than not exposing it. That value can be non-material value, such as reputation, vanity, more views, or it can be directly material as in garnering side contracts with casinos as a consultant.

2) They treat the entire AP game as some competition they want to "win." If they aren't exploiting a play and other people are, they expose it.

3) They lack the funding to directly exploit various plays, although they are aware of them. A combination of reputation-seeking, vanity, and treating other APs as competition leads them to expose the plays.

4) They may have funding, but they lack the psychological makeup, discipline, and possibly physical abilities to handle certain plays effectively. Or overall they are actually failed APs because they have the Fred Flintstone degenerate gambling thing going on. So they act as if they are APs in a sense, but they know they really are not, and they expose the plays.


I mean, really, do you see Michael Shackleford as an effective AP doing almost anything? That Burning Man style of persona is usually going to get you squashed in the long run. If you don't have some streetwise sixth sense, you're going to go down no matter your math skills.

---

When I explained to Shack that one needs a contingency plan, per the small chance, for defending oneself when out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses....he took riding a freight train off his bucket list.

---

He is definitely the “yuppie” (is that still a word) type Hippie. The Burning man today is nothing like the old days and is filled with corporate types on team building exercises. Sure some of the old burners still go but a little research shows most abandoned it years ago due to the new crowd and the high prices.

He is basically afraid of his own shadow and acts like he is some “celebrity” or he realizes he made a lot of enemies over the years. Every single get together he has never has the location publicly released. Sure there are crazies out there but I don’t believe there is anyone looking to find him.

Look how upset he got at you when you made an off handed joke about capping him. Who knows what else he did and who he contacted other than banning you from the site.

Fearful little man who has no problem fucking with others livelihoods for his own self interests. Yet is stupid (or smart financially) enough to sign a NDA from someone he barely knew to cover for that individuals lies over the years. So for a few, or a lot of bucks or other “perks” gave up his claimed journalistic integrity toward the character as MDawg.

Definitely a strange one, but they say many geniuses are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Pretty good Rogan episode Monet with first time guest guitar virtuoso and former Metallica member Dave Mustaine - please disregard this post if you have already listened to this podcast (excerpt below)

---

Thanks!
I wasn't going to listen to this because I have no interest in Metallica or Megadeath.
I listened to the first 30 minutes and so far so good to my surprise.
If they get into something I don't want to listen to I will just fast forward.
I've been doing that a lot lately with Rogan's podcast.
Skimming my way through.
Ever since he decided to apologize for saying Nigger he has gone downhill.
Mostly talking to hack comedians and the conversation has been pretty dull IMO.
And he is starting to lose touch with the common man.
This seems to be a common theme to Shock or Talk Radio and or Talk Show Hosts in general.
Anyways, thanks for the reco!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

You want to discuss something AP wise, here I have something. It probably belongs in the WoV thread but I am going to stick it right here.

A couple - 3 years, before covid so maybe 3 years, my brother and I were playing a side bet blackjack game in Colorado that someone had shared with us. They were allowing players to place a side bet up to the amount of their regular bet, which when placed at the right strategic times, made the game very profitable. So after a couple weeks of camping out in crappy motels in Colorado and more and more AP's joining the hit parade, Shackleford revealed the play at WoV and how to beat it, complete with all the math, the way he does. Within like 2 days the sidebet limits were reduced to 25% of your main bet, which all but erased the profit margin. It was just barely +EV. I left, my brother stayed for another few days.

I was pretty pissed at Shackleford, but didn't make a big deal of it. He has done this type of thing before. Well this week he did the exact same thing. I had just got wind of this play and my brother and I were discussing if we wanted to spend some time in Colorado when, Shackleford revealed the play and all the math....again! While it didn't effect me this time as far as yanking a play out from under us, I bet it effected some playing. Why does he do this shit? and why does he get a pass from the AP community?

---

Take a few seconds to think about it, and the answer presents itself. When people do this stuff (as Stanford Wong did with teaser ranges most professionals knew about, but the public did not), it's for a variation of one of the following reasons:

1) They get more value out of the exposing of the play than not exposing it. That value can be non-material value, such as reputation, vanity, more views, or it can be directly material as in garnering side contracts with casinos as a consultant.

2) They treat the entire AP game as some competition they want to "win." If they aren't exploiting a play and other people are, they expose it.

3) They lack the funding to directly exploit various plays, although they are aware of them. A combination of reputation-seeking, vanity, and treating other APs as competition leads them to expose the plays.

4) They may have funding, but they lack the psychological makeup, discipline, and possibly physical abilities to handle certain plays effectively. Or overall they are actually failed APs because they have the Fred Flintstone degenerate gambling thing going on. So they act as if they are APs in a sense, but they know they really are not, and they expose the plays.


I mean, really, do you see Michael Shackleford as an effective AP doing almost anything? That Burning Man style of persona is usually going to get you squashed in the long run. If you don't have some streetwise sixth sense, you're going to go down no matter your math skills.

---

When I explained to Shack that one needs a contingency plan, per the small chance, for defending oneself when out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses....he took riding a freight train off his bucket list.

---

This is actually pretty funny. If somebody asked about my contingency, I'd flip open my jacket and ask, "Pepper spray, taser, shuriken or switchblade?" (Note: I own guns, but not handguns).

Back in my youth, I occasionally wore a shuriken as a belt buckle. But you really don't want to trip and fall and get an unnecessary circumcision.

Remember the promotion at The Plaza that Shack outed the day the promotion was to begin (or maybe the day before). He posted not only exactly how to beat the promotion, but exactly what it was worth and hour if you did. Well, when the promo started the higher denom machines had been excluded from the promotion and even with the lower denom machines the entire promotion was shutdown early. Shackleford even commented that he was out of town or something and wouldn't be able to play that promotion, so he ruined it for others.

I don't understand why he gets a pass on this shit? When I called attention to the CSM at EC and those machines which a team of AP's were playing were removed, I caught shit. And that was an honest mistake. I was only bringing attention to the cheating, unaware that it was APable and calling attention would end that play. I mean this guy basically says, if I can't do it, no one can and no one says anything.

Shackleford IS freaking Sheldon from the big bang show. Book smart, but common-sense stupid. From now on he should be known as Shacky-Sheldon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Boz

So for a few, or a lot of bucks or other “perks” gave up his claimed journalistic integrity toward the character as MDawg.

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It isn't about "journalist integrity". Shackleford isn't a journalist. And it isn't about "free speech" as he sometimes claims. It is about the math....the very math that Shackleford made his name (and money) promoting. He has turned his back on that math and allows this fraud to make a mockery of the math, the forum and Shackleford himself. "Sellout" isn't even the word for it. The word is betrayal or treason.

I would accept the free speech argument if he allowed other members, real players and math guys to legitimately challenge this BS. At least that would be a form of self-policing in the community. But when he shuts down all challenges and protects this guy, even suspending like 20 members, including anyone who uttered a simply "I don't believe him", then Shackleford himself becomes a part of this fraud BS claim.

Who occupies more real estate in your brain Kewlj: Shack, Singer, or mdog?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

Who occupies more real estate in your brain Kewlj: Shack, Singer, or mdog?

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Oh, I am the bad guy hun? The math is the math dude.

Two of these guys use alternative phony math for self aggrandizing purposes, while the other now denies the very math that made him his money out of selfishness.

I have a right to call all 3 out. If you want to stay silent....stay silent. I won't!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Pretty good Rogan episode Monet with first time guest guitar virtuoso and former Metallica member Dave Mustaine - please disregard this post if you have already listened to this podcast (excerpt below)

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Thanks!
I wasn't going to listen to this because I have no interest in Metallica or Megadeath.
I listened to the first 30 minutes and so far so good to my surprise.
If they get into something I don't want to listen to I will just fast forward.
I've been doing that a lot lately with Rogan's podcast.
Skimming my way through.
Ever since he decided to apologize for saying Nigger he has gone downhill.
Mostly talking to hack comedians and the conversation has been pretty dull IMO.
And he is starting to lose touch with the common man.
This seems to be a common theme to Shock or Talk Radio and or Talk Show Hosts in general.
Anyways, thanks for the reco!

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No problem Monet, I'm glad you are enjoying it. I'm not a heavy metal fan, but Dave seems like a smart and highly focused motivated guy and I have enjoyed his interviews over the years - so I decided to listen to this podcast. Anyway, I agree with you about Rogan - guests like Dave Mustaine don't appear that frequently anymore and the show is now past its zenith.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

No problem Monet, I'm glad you are enjoying it. I'm not a heavy metal fan, but Dave seems like a smart and highly focused motivated guy and I have enjoyed his interviews over the years - so I decided to listen to this podcast. Anyway, I agree with you about Rogan - guests like Dave Mustaine don't appear that frequently anymore and the show is now past its zenith.

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lol after saying all that he goes and uploads #1863 Mark Zuckerberg.
I doubt that he will challenge him on any issues though.
I'm predicting a very complimentary and softball 3 hour podcast.
It's very rare that Joe challenges any of his guests.
He usually just bashes them a bit and never invites them back.
Eric Weinstein seems like a good example of that after the JamiePullThatUp fiasco.

They started right into the new Oculus which I never understood the name.
Seems like a nod to the Occult.
I have crossed over into being an Old Man now as I have no interest in VR or Automation.
I would of thought Rogan would bash him about the Metaverse since he has constantly made fun of it.
Perhaps Joe has changed his opinion on that topic though as it seems like he is coming around.

Maybe the joke is on me as it isn't even called Oculus anymore from what I just read.
Perhaps Joe called it that intentionally as a knock?
I dunno... Mark didn't correct him on it so I guess it wasn't a big deal.
It's all over my head anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

Who occupies more real estate in your brain Kewlj: Shack, Singer, or mdog?

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Oh, I am the bad guy hun?
…..
If you want to stay silent....stay silent. I won't!

---

Unkewl bro….

Anyways, lol @ making it sound like some blm nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

No problem Monet, I'm glad you are enjoying it. I'm not a heavy metal fan, but Dave seems like a smart and highly focused motivated guy and I have enjoyed his interviews over the years - so I decided to listen to this podcast. Anyway, I agree with you about Rogan - guests like Dave Mustaine don't appear that frequently anymore and the show is now past its zenith.

---

lol after saying all that he goes and uploads #1863 Mark Zuckerberg.
I doubt that he will challenge him on any issues though.
I'm predicting a very complimentary and softball 3 hour podcast.
It's very rare that Joe challenges any of his guests.
He usually just bashes them a bit and never invites them back.
Eric Weinstein seems like a good example of that after the JamiePullThatUp fiasco.

They started right into the new Oculus which I never understood the name.
Seems like a nod to the Occult.
I have crossed over into being an Old Man now as I have no interest in VR or Automation.
I would of thought Rogan would bash him about the Metaverse since he has constantly made fun of it.
Perhaps Joe has changed his opinion on that topic though as it seems like he is coming around.

Maybe the joke is on me as it isn't even called Oculus anymore from what I just read.
Perhaps Joe called it that intentionally as a knock?
I dunno... Mark didn't correct him on it so I guess it wasn't a big deal.
It's all over my head anyway.

---

Thanks for letting me know Monet. I am going to listen to the Zuckerberg podcast, and I think it is likely that the main entertainment value will be exactly as you describe - the degree to which he plays softball and patronizes this lunkhead (who made his fortune stealing the social media concept from his college acquaintances the Winklevoss Twins - he made Billions and only had to pay the twins 65 million to settle for the theft of their idea).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Boz

Every single get together he has never has the location publicly released.

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I don't want to rain on your parade Boz, but he actually started doing that at the request of Advantage Players who wanted to attend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Boz

Every single get together he has never has the location publicly released.

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I don't want to rain on your parade Boz, but he actually started doing that at the request of Advantage Players who wanted to attend.

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And that makes total sense. I stand corrected…..on that part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

Who occupies more real estate in your brain Kewlj: Shack, Singer, or mdog?

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Oh, I am the bad guy hun?
…..
If you want to stay silent....stay silent. I won't!

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UNKOOL bro….

Anyways, lol @ making it sound like some blm nonsense.

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He's very UNKOOL and will remain so, till the end of time. Nothing can ever make him cool whatsoever !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Take a few seconds to think about it, and the answer presents itself. When people do this stuff (as Stanford Wong did with teaser ranges most professionals knew about, but the public did not), it's for a variation of one of the following reasons:

1) They get more value out of the exposing of the play than not exposing it. That value can be non-material value, such as reputation, vanity, more views, or it can be directly material as in garnering side contracts with casinos as a consultant.

2) They treat the entire AP game as some competition they want to "win." If they aren't exploiting a play and other people are, they expose it.

3) They lack the funding to directly exploit various plays, although they are aware of them. A combination of reputation-seeking, vanity, and treating other APs as competition leads them to expose the plays.

4) They may have funding, but they lack the psychological makeup, discipline, and possibly physical abilities to handle certain plays effectively. Or overall they are actually failed APs because they have the Fred Flintstone degenerate gambling thing going on. So they act as if they are APs in a sense, but they know they really are not, and they expose the plays.


I mean, really, do you see Michael Shackleford as an effective AP doing almost anything? That Burning Man style of persona is usually going to get you squashed in the long run. If you don't have some streetwise sixth sense, you're going to go down no matter your math skills.

---

When I explained to Shack that one needs a contingency plan, per the small chance, for defending oneself when out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses....he took riding a freight train off his bucket list.

---

This is actually pretty funny. If somebody asked about my contingency, I'd flip open my jacket and ask, "Pepper spray, taser, shuriken or switchblade?" (Note: I own guns, but not handguns).

Back in my youth, I occasionally wore a shuriken as a belt buckle. But you really don't want to trip and fall and get an unnecessary circumcision.

---

You are showing your ignorance. Rail riders get jacked up by the cops all the time. You don't want to get caught with a gun or knife. A ball peen hammer works pretty good for close combat....and the cops have a hard time construing it as a weapon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

When I explained to Shack that one needs a contingency plan, per the small chance, for defending oneself when out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses....he took riding a freight train off his bucket list.

---

This is actually pretty funny. If somebody asked about my contingency, I'd flip open my jacket and ask, "Pepper spray, taser, shuriken or switchblade?" (Note: I own guns, but not handguns).

Back in my youth, I occasionally wore a shuriken as a belt buckle. But you really don't want to trip and fall and get an unnecessary circumcision.

---

You are showing your ignorance. Rail riders get jacked up by the cops all the time. You don't want to get caught with a gun or knife. A ball peen hammer works pretty good for close combat....and the cops have a hard time construing it as a weapon.

---

Mickey, my ignorance may runneth over, but you're showing your ignorance of the nuances. Nothing illegal about pepper spray and tasers. And shurikens, as I said, make fine belt buckles. As to knives, while CARRYING a switchblade is illegal in most jurisdictions, COLLECTING switchblades is legal. You just need a nice case and certificates of authenticity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Thanks for letting me know Monet. I am going to listen to the Zuckerberg podcast, and I think it is likely that the main entertainment value will be exactly as you describe - the degree to which he plays softball and patronizes this lunkhead (who made his fortune stealing the social media concept from his college acquaintances the Winklevoss Twins - he made Billions and only had to pay the twins 65 million to settle for the theft of their idea).

---

Yeah and he had to pay his pal a bunch of dough too for trying to dissolve his stock position in the company.
But this is nothing new.
These guys are always figuring a legal way to steal.
I said it before and I say it again... Lie, Cheat and Steal is the way of life in this world.

Anyways, I couldn't believe how soft Rogan was on Zuck.
I found most of the conversation mundane and boring.
And I sensed some lying from Mark.
But Rogan heard our complaints and came back to form in todays podcast.
It's pretty darn good and it pretty much proves what we knew all along.
The Vaccines are not safe and effective.
Emphasis on NOT SAFE and NOT EFFECTIVE.
Congrats on this guy beating Twatter in Court.
#1864 Alex Berenson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ot6-61hZRo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

This is actually pretty funny. If somebody asked about my contingency, I'd flip open my jacket and ask, "Pepper spray, taser, shuriken or switchblade?" (Note: I own guns, but not handguns).

Back in my youth, I occasionally wore a shuriken as a belt buckle. But you really don't want to trip and fall and get an unnecessary circumcision.

---

You are showing your ignorance. Rail riders get jacked up by the cops all the time. You don't want to get caught with a gun or knife. A ball peen hammer works pretty good for close combat....and the cops have a hard time construing it as a weapon.

---

Mickey, my ignorance may runneth over, but you're showing your ignorance of the nuances. Nothing illegal about pepper spray and tasers. And shurikens, as I said, make fine belt buckles. As to knives, while CARRYING a switchblade is illegal in most jurisdictions, COLLECTING switchblades is legal. You just need a nice case and certificates of authenticity.

---

I'm happy for ya.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Thanks for letting me know Monet. I am going to listen to the Zuckerberg podcast, and I think it is likely that the main entertainment value will be exactly as you describe - the degree to which he plays softball and patronizes this lunkhead (who made his fortune stealing the social media concept from his college acquaintances the Winklevoss Twins - he made Billions and only had to pay the twins 65 million to settle for the theft of their idea).

---

Yeah and he had to pay his pal a bunch of dough too for trying to dissolve his stock position in the company.
But this is nothing new.
These guys are always figuring a legal way to steal.
I said it before and I say it again... Lie, Cheat and Steal is the way of life in this world.

Anyways, I couldn't believe how soft Rogan was on Zuck.
I found most of the conversation mundane and boring.
And I sensed some lying from Mark.
But Rogan heard our complaints and came back to form in todays podcast.
It's pretty darn good and it pretty much proves what we knew all along.
The Vaccines are not safe and effective.
Emphasis on NOT SAFE and NOT EFFECTIVE.
Congrats on this guy beating Twatter in Court.
#1864 Alex Berenson

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I agree about the Zuckerberg podcast. It came off mostly as a promotion for his virtual reality/augmented reality products. Thanks for the Berenson reco I will listen to it (and kudos to tennis star Novak Djokovic - who is very wisely not getting the covid "vaccine" even though he will not be allowed to play in the US open and probably other major tennis tournaments as well).

I would like to recommend to you the documentary Running with the Devil: The Wild World of John McAfee (2022) which is about the wild and crazy mother fucker John McAfee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

I agree about the Zuckerberg podcast. It came off mostly as a promotion for his virtual reality/augmented reality products. Thanks for the Berenson reco I will listen to it (and kudos to tennis star Novak Djokovic - who is very wisely not getting the covid "vaccine" even though he will not be allowed to play in the US open and probably other major tennis tournaments as well).

I would like to recommend to you the documentary Running with the Devil: The Wild World of John McAfee (2022) which is about the wild and crazy mother fucker John McAfee.

---

Thanks for the McAfee Reco.
Thankfully most of the Rogan/Berenson Podcast was a conversation about Covid.
This is not my statement but it seems accurate...
"Alex Berenson is great on Covid but he shows his blind spot when dealing with the rights of other people with dissident views."