Are you busy contacting Munchkin?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
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Are you busy contacting Munchkin?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
If he believes you actually turned down clients (money) then yes he hasn’t thought things through. Where was your boiler room?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Go ahead, mickey. Use every contact you have, every social and gambling acquaintance and friend. I was out there in public way more than you or any of your compadres.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIf he believes you actually turned down clients (money) then yes he hasn’t thought things through. Where was your boiler room?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I was on newsstands in Playbook for decades. Find one account of me being a "boiler room operator." Find one person who says I didn't always, for 45 years, conduct myself with the highest ethical standards. Call anyone and everyone you know.
Call Marc Lawrence or the people running every monitoring outfit. Call Gamblers' Book Club and track down the old Whos' Who in Sports Gambling, which was published there. Call Mr. Walters. Or dial up "Anthony Curtis" and ask what he's heard.
Go ahead and find one chink in my moral armor.
Or just continue to defame and libel me on a public forum with zero information to back up your libelous comments. That's who you are and what you are about. It's actually ha-ha funny. It shines a spotlight on your credibility.
You could avoid that situation by not offering something that's BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
But I'm not sure that EV is a factor with his clients.
They only offer to pay him if his opinion is correct.
I'm not certain that they are even required to pay him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyThey only offer to pay him if his opinion is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Maybe you slept through that part of the deal.
Wise up.
Reading is a lost "AP" art.
When it comes to investing clients one should only be getting a very small percentage, unless they are unethicly fleecing their clients. That wouldn't fit the narrative of Integrity Sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWhy wouldn't they...aren't clients essentially a freeroll?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Let us assume a tout(for lack of a better term) is making his clients 10% via handicapping (That seems unrealistically high, but we will go with it).
let's assume he gets in 2 million worth of bets for the year on behalf of his clients and let's assume he gets 10% of that. That means he would be only making 20k for the year.
Without investors, he would be making 200k per year. Why would one want to give up 180k? I can understand if a guy is first starting out and he needs to build up a bankroll.
Red said himself, AP Sports betting dwarfs most other forms of AP because it's highly scalable. If you have had years of a proven track record, there's very little reason you would need or want investors for long since a meager bankroll should be growing year after year using Kelly.
There are probably some benefits to having investors beyond the freeroll aspect, but I highly doubt that would make up for that 90% you are giving up.
I dont think they are paying per pick. I think they give/gave him money. He bets or has them bet and they give him a percentage of the wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyYou could avoid that situation by not offering something that's BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
But I'm not sure that EV is a factor with his clients.
They only offer to pay him if his opinion is correct.
I'm not certain that they are even required to pay him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfWhen it comes to investing clients one should only be getting a very small percentage, unless they are unethicly fleecing their clients. That wouldn't fit the narrative of Integrity Sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWhy wouldn't they...aren't clients essentially a freeroll?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Let us assume a tout(for lack of a better term) is making his clients 10% via handicapping (That seems unrealistically high, but we will go with it).
let's assume he gets in 2 million worth of bets for the year on behalf of his clients and let's assume he gets 10% of that. That means he would be only making 20k for the year.
Without investors, he would be making 200k per year. Why would one want to give up 180k? I can understand if a guy is first starting out and he needs to build up a bankroll.
Red said himself, AP Sports betting dwarfs most other forms of AP because it's highly scalable. If you have had years of a proven track record, there's very little reason you would need or want investors for long since a meager bankroll should be growing year after year using Kelly.
There are probably some benefits to having investors beyond the freeroll aspect, but I highly doubt that would make up for that 90% you are giving up.
This is the last time I address you, Axel. You have very little idea what you are talking about. You keep saying "sports betting." Get it through your head -- for the most part, there is no "sports betting." It's not highly scalable. Figure out why -- hint: it's partly because (1) it ain't coin flips and (2) expertise is restricted to individual sports because, guess what, sports are completely different.
So that pretty much buries whatever naive perspective you bring to the table.
You know, I don't go around AP-splainin' blackjack to kewlJ or AP-splainin' video poker to Dancer or AP-splainin' any other games to you. But you think, and these other brain dead, arrogant alleged AP maroons, that you have cornered the market on overall gambling wisdom, when you inhabit your little individual crevices, involving not much money, with your college sophomore probability and wanderings around casinos.
Have you ever considered that maybe other people know specific things a lot more and a lot better than you do? Because if that ever dawns on you, maybe you can muster enough discipline to not pontificate when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Leonardo Da APs -- it's like a plague of lemmings.
What I really love about you guys is that the thread is titled "Professional Sports Betting." You have one poster who actually was a professional sports bettor, and every one of you "APs" thinks you know better than him. Have you ever considered the irony of that?
LOL. It's not like I haven't done it for 45 years and gotten rave reviews in the process. "Nooooooooo" as John Belushi used to say. I especially like "The Riddler" making money with every single project, and nobody mentions him. It's comical.
Have a good one.
I asked you about this before. I don't think I got a proper response. I have known him for many years, I been to dinner with him,hung out with him, I have given him advice on different slot and VP plays, I played some of the same plays next to him, I went to his induction to the blackjack hall of fame party, I see him around from time to time. I have his number and he normally responds.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
First off I know people in the public eye don't normally like to dis others, its not good for buissness, especially when you have somthing to promote or sell. He may not want to get involved.
I ask that you don't prep/ pre-coach him or alert him that I would be contacting him about you. I will ask him if that has happend.
Post up or send me a PM with whatever you deem appropriate to ask him, and please add that you want him to be honest, and that I have your permission to relay that information to others.
I see a fascinating dynamic at play here between mickey, axelwolf and Redietz. Most AP's are about winning money. Any notoriety or that we might get is usually through our handle or screen name and often times something we would rather not occur, because of our need for anonymity.
Red is completely different. We still haven't gotten any figures out of him about what kind of money he might have made. Just that he has been at it for 45 years. He is in it for the notoriety, hence all the name dropping and lists of publications that list a name that he claims was him.
He seems like an old guy standing on his porch screaming "I used to be someone" while the rest of the world goes on without him.
So here is my real question. Red not only doesn't try to hide who he is, which he rails against APs for, but I mean for years he posted his freaking address, like he wanted someone, anyone to look him up. When someone did, they discovered he lived in a very modest little house in the middle of nowhere, that he hadn't paid taxes on.
So if this guy is who he is or claiming to be, one of the top handicappers in the country for 45 years. What kind of money did he make and where is it? It doesn't show in his home. When he visits Vegas he does so on the cheap, budget end. He doesn't have kids he is leaving it to. Where is the freaking money or show me the money? :confused:
If he was who he says and made the kind of money you would have expected from a top sports handicapper for 45 year, you would have thought he would have bought a small condo or something in Vegas for the 100 days a year he spent in Vegas instead of staying in some of the weekly, run down places he has shared. Am I missing something?
I've never gone out of my way to get publicly noticed or mentioned like you have. For the most part, I've tried to go unnoticed and unmentioned. Unlike you, my ability to make money gambling doesn't require me to recruit investors.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfWhen it comes to investing clients one should only be getting a very small percentage, unless they are unethicly fleecing their clients. That wouldn't fit the narrative of Integrity Sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Let us assume a tout(for lack of a better term) is making his clients 10% via handicapping (That seems unrealistically high, but we will go with it).
let's assume he gets in 2 million worth of bets for the year on behalf of his clients and let's assume he gets 10% of that. That means he would be only making 20k for the year.
Without investors, he would be making 200k per year. Why would one want to give up 180k? I can understand if a guy is first starting out and he needs to build up a bankroll.
Red said himself, AP Sports betting dwarfs most other forms of AP because it's highly scalable. If you have had years of a proven track record, there's very little reason you would need or want investors for long since a meager bankroll should be growing year after year using Kelly.
There are probably some benefits to having investors beyond the freeroll aspect, but I highly doubt that would make up for that 90% you are giving up.
This is the last time I address you, Axel. You have very little idea what you are talking about. You keep saying "sports betting." Get it through your head -- for the most part, there is no "sports betting." It's not highly scalable. Figure out why -- hint: it's partly because (1) it ain't coin flips and (2) expertise is restricted to individual sports because, guess what, sports are completely different.
So that pretty much buries whatever naive perspective you bring to the table.
You know, I don't go around AP-splainin' blackjack to kewlJ or AP-splainin' video poker to Dancer or AP-splainin' any other games to you. But you think, and these other brain dead, arrogant alleged AP maroons, that you have cornered the market on overall gambling wisdom, when you inhabit your little individual crevices, involving not much money, with your college sophomore probability and wanderings around casinos.
Have you ever considered that maybe other people know specific things a lot more and a lot better than you do? Because if that ever dawns on you, maybe you can muster enough discipline to not pontificate when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Leonardo Da APs -- it's like a plague of lemmings.
What I really love about you guys is that the thread is titled "Professional Sports Betting." You have one poster who actually was a professional sports bettor, and every one of you "APs" thinks you know better than him. Have you ever considered the irony of that?
LOL. It's not like I haven't done it for 45 years and gotten rave reviews in the process. "Nooooooooo" as John Belushi used to say. I especially like "The Riddler" making money with every single project, and nobody mentions him. It's comical.
Have a good one.
He can make 200K with or without investors, why would he need to give up 180K?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
And, while you're at it since you seem to know Anthony Curtis(You will have to PM me since he doesn't know me by forum handle). He encouraged me to publish a book. When I told them one of the reasons I didn't want to was to protect the community and former teammates livelihoods who were still friends. I remember he told me that I should probably think about myself instead of protecting the community because the community isn't going to protect me and my pocketbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfWhen it comes to investing clients one should only be getting a very small percentage, unless they are unethicly fleecing their clients. That wouldn't fit the narrative of Integrity Sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Let us assume a tout(for lack of a better term) is making his clients 10% via handicapping (That seems unrealistically high, but we will go with it).
let's assume he gets in 2 million worth of bets for the year on behalf of his clients and let's assume he gets 10% of that. That means he would be only making 20k for the year.
Without investors, he would be making 200k per year. Why would one want to give up 180k? I can understand if a guy is first starting out and he needs to build up a bankroll.
Red said himself, AP Sports betting dwarfs most other forms of AP because it's highly scalable. If you have had years of a proven track record, there's very little reason you would need or want investors for long since a meager bankroll should be growing year after year using Kelly.
There are probably some benefits to having investors beyond the freeroll aspect, but I highly doubt that would make up for that 90% you are giving up.
This is the last time I address you, Axel. You have very little idea what you are talking about. You keep saying "sports betting." Get it through your head -- for the most part, there is no "sports betting." It's not highly scalable. Figure out why -- hint: it's partly because (1) it ain't coin flips and (2) expertise is restricted to individual sports because, guess what, sports are completely different.
So that pretty much buries whatever naive perspective you bring to the table.
You know, I don't go around AP-splainin' blackjack to kewlJ or AP-splainin' video poker to Dancer or AP-splainin' any other games to you. But you think, and these other brain dead, arrogant alleged AP maroons, that you have cornered the market on overall gambling wisdom, when you inhabit your little individual crevices, involving not much money, with your college sophomore probability and wanderings around casinos.
Have you ever considered that maybe other people know specific things a lot more and a lot better than you do? Because if that ever dawns on you, maybe you can muster enough discipline to not pontificate when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Leonardo Da APs -- it's like a plague of lemmings.
What I really love about you guys is that the thread is titled "Professional Sports Betting." You have one poster who actually was a professional sports bettor, and every one of you "APs" thinks you know better than him. Have you ever considered the irony of that?
LOL. It's not like I haven't done it for 45 years and gotten rave reviews in the process. "Nooooooooo" as John Belushi used to say. I especially like "The Riddler" making money with every single project, and nobody mentions him. It's comical.
Have a good one.
I used one pick as an example...does there have to be more than one pick per season?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Wouldn't a 10K commission on one 100K winner qualify?
If you divide his total commission by the total number of picks, then you come up with an average commission per pick. That could end up being 10K per pick, even if it's more than one pick.
You seem to know more about how his business model works and what he does. Why don't you explain it to me and we can go from there?Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyHe can make 200K with or without investors, why would he need to give up 180K?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Don't you recruit team members? Can you make the same money whether you have a team or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Don't you collect commission on plays that you share?
Do the beneficiaries of your info ever bankroll their own play, or contribute to a team bankroll for a percentage of the team's win?
First you explain why he would need to give up 180K, then I'll try to wise you up.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
See the post above. It's not worth going over this until there's a better understanding of how his buissness model works and what role he plays in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyI used one pick as an example...does there have to be more than one pick per season?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Wouldn't a 10K commission on one 100K winner qualify?
If you divide his total commission by the total number of picks, then you come up with an average commission per pick. That could end up being 10K per pick, even if it's more than one pick.
Furthermore one would need to know what his average winning percentages are. I have no clue if he yields -3% or +10%.
Nobody pushed you down that rabbit hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
So try thinking outside the box, isn't that what you've recommended?
Is this gal for real? Quite clearly we have schizophrenic clashing forces at work in her twisted mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Isn't 10% of 2 Million, 200,000 (rather than 20,000 which is 1% of 2 million) ? Perhaps you meant 1% rather than 10%. Or perhaps I just misread/misinterpreted your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Would one possible reason to refuse client betting be to avoid undesired line movement for personal bets ? Perhaps knowledgeable sports bettors can chime in on this supposition.
Yes, and that's been discussed before related to this very conversation in the past. It's not really going to matter someone's always going to say there's a way around this that or the other thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplayIsn't 10% of 2 Million, 200,000 (rather than 20,000 which is 1% of 2 million) ? Perhaps you meant 1% rather than 10%. Or perhaps I just misread/misinterpreted your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Would one possible reason to refuse client betting be to avoid undesired line movement for personal bets ? Perhaps knowledgeable sports bettors can chime in on this supposition.
I'm saying he's going to get 10% of whatever his clients make.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplayIsn't 10% of 2 Million, 200,000 (rather than 20,000 which is 1% of 2 million) ? Perhaps you meant 1% rather than 10%. Or perhaps I just misread/misinterpreted your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Would one possible reason to refuse client betting be to avoid undesired line movement for personal bets ? Perhaps knowledgeable sports bettors can chime in on this supposition.
Ok, so his clients would be making $200,000 per year on $2,000,000 worth of wagering . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfI'm saying he's going to get 10% of whatever his clients make.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplayIsn't 10% of 2 Million, 200,000 (rather than 20,000 which is 1% of 2 million) ? Perhaps you meant 1% rather than 10%. Or perhaps I just misread/misinterpreted your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Would one possible reason to refuse client betting be to avoid undesired line movement for personal bets ? Perhaps knowledgeable sports bettors can chime in on this supposition.
The wall just got Ten Feet Higher!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUlF1naMr3Y
IF he can get a 10% advantage, and IF he can get down 2 million in action. And if they give up 10% of their winnings.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplayOk, so his clients would be making $200,000 per year on $2,000,000 worth of wagering . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfI'm saying he's going to get 10% of whatever his clients make.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
How about this? Let us say I'm willing to give Dan access to a handful of my sports/casino accounts and he can do a dive into "If I know what I'm doing". He can see how much im up, what I have invested etc etc. You can say a few lucky big bets are meaningless, and I would agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Dan can assess that there are a significant number of wagers(It might be a shit ton of work, there is probably a way to import it directly to a spreadsheet) and accounts that go well above the standard deviation of it being simple luck even if I were to cherry-pick as the number of wagers and places would be overwhelming enough to realize it's not just running good. Other than gracing me with your decades-old "I worked for Billy Walters" stories... what do you have to offer?
"involving not much money" I can guarantee you that I have wagered much more of my money than you have with your own money at +EV lifetime in less time than you have.
If that won't work for you, how about a contest of some sort? Just spitballing here: You must use your own money, no investor's money, no team bankroll money, and no borrowed money. We both start with the same amount of bankroll. We play at an agreed-upon offshore joint. You can't re-up/add more bankroll money, transfer money from other people or accounts, or play poker/live casino games. Our bet sizes will be limited to an agreed-on amount. You can bet as much or as little as you want(not to exceed the betting limit) on whatever you want, and you use whatever bonuses you want. The goal is to make money so whoever makes more money at the end of x number of days wins. We can agree on how much we are each willing to put up to make it worthwhile. We can set aside somthing for the verifier to check accounts and make sure no rules were broken.
Redietz once said his lifetime batting average against the spread is 57%. I think that would be about a 9% earn on -110 betting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfSee the post above. It's not worth going over this until there's a better understanding of how his buissness model works and what role he plays in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyI used one pick as an example...does there have to be more than one pick per season?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Wouldn't a 10K commission on one 100K winner qualify?
If you divide his total commission by the total number of picks, then you come up with an average commission per pick. That could end up being 10K per pick, even if it's more than one pick.
Furthermore one would need to know what his average winning percentages are. I have no clue if he yields -3% or +10%.
It’s a possibility redietz was paid on a seasonal basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyI used one pick as an example...does there have to be more than one pick per season?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Wouldn't a 10K commission on one 100K winner qualify?
If you divide his total commission by the total number of picks, then you come up with an average commission per pick. That could end up being 10K per pick, even if it's more than one pick.
There have been many professional sports bettors featured in this thread. That was the intent. But you, Ditz, only want to rag people about it. Is that how your “educated friends” do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfWhen it comes to investing clients one should only be getting a very small percentage, unless they are unethicly fleecing their clients. That wouldn't fit the narrative of Integrity Sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Let us assume a tout(for lack of a better term) is making his clients 10% via handicapping (That seems unrealistically high, but we will go with it).
let's assume he gets in 2 million worth of bets for the year on behalf of his clients and let's assume he gets 10% of that. That means he would be only making 20k for the year.
Without investors, he would be making 200k per year. Why would one want to give up 180k? I can understand if a guy is first starting out and he needs to build up a bankroll.
Red said himself, AP Sports betting dwarfs most other forms of AP because it's highly scalable. If you have had years of a proven track record, there's very little reason you would need or want investors for long since a meager bankroll should be growing year after year using Kelly.
There are probably some benefits to having investors beyond the freeroll aspect, but I highly doubt that would make up for that 90% you are giving up.
This is the last time I address you, Axel. You have very little idea what you are talking about. You keep saying "sports betting." Get it through your head -- for the most part, there is no "sports betting." It's not highly scalable. Figure out why -- hint: it's partly because (1) it ain't coin flips and (2) expertise is restricted to individual sports because, guess what, sports are completely different.
So that pretty much buries whatever naive perspective you bring to the table.
You know, I don't go around AP-splainin' blackjack to kewlJ or AP-splainin' video poker to Dancer or AP-splainin' any other games to you. But you think, and these other brain dead, arrogant alleged AP maroons, that you have cornered the market on overall gambling wisdom, when you inhabit your little individual crevices, involving not much money, with your college sophomore probability and wanderings around casinos.
Have you ever considered that maybe other people know specific things a lot more and a lot better than you do? Because if that ever dawns on you, maybe you can muster enough discipline to not pontificate when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Leonardo Da APs -- it's like a plague of lemmings.
What I really love about you guys is that the thread is titled "Professional Sports Betting." You have one poster who actually was a professional sports bettor, and every one of you "APs" thinks you know better than him. Have you ever considered the irony of that?
LOL. It's not like I haven't done it for 45 years and gotten rave reviews in the process. "Nooooooooo" as John Belushi used to say. I especially like "The Riddler" making money with every single project, and nobody mentions him. It's comical.
Have a good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmRedietz once said his lifetime batting average against the spread is 57%. I think that would be about a 9% earn on -110 betting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfSee the post above. It's not worth going over this until there's a better understanding of how his buissness model works and what role he plays in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Furthermore one would need to know what his average winning percentages are. I have no clue if he yields -3% or +10%.
In college football. If there's one thing I'd like the APs to get straight, it's that there is no utility in using the phrase "against the spread" without specifying a sport.
Now I say that, and preach it, but I will honestly admit that I used the concept against my competitors in advertising back in the 80's. When I tallied my competitors' "all sports" McCusker-monitored records versus my college football ATS records, my overall percentage a particular five-year bracket (I think it was 56.8% or something like that) was the best. Since I was only doing college football at the time, that's what my record was.
However, McCusker gave me grief about that kind of advertising, saying I was "comparing apples to oranges." I responded with "overall ATS is overall ATS," but I did stop advertising like that. I figured he was actually more correct. Gray area stuff, but I stopped.
The bottom line is that when you list ATS records, they really should be by individual sport, because certain sports are much easier than others. College football and college basketball have historically been the easiest.
I do not know anyone with a lifetime 57% NFL ATS record, for example.
This is the part I don't get. If someone can REALLY pick winners at 57% consistently, they can make a lot of money. What do they need 'clients' for?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
What is the final line in the movie Casino? Rosenthal says something like "in the end I was right back where I started. I could always pick winners". If you can pick winners, you pick winners. Everything else just complicates it with more hands in the cookie jar.
The one thing I learned from Red was about all the contests and stuff. I had no idea. There is definitely hidden EV in playing these contests for players that are good sports handicappers. But I just don't get this client stuff. Red will call me stupid and that is fine. I never claimed to be an expert in sports betting. Just trying to pick up a few things along the way that can result in some +Ev plays, especially after the bonuses dry up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Dawg your trolling of me, only confirms everything I have said about you, that it was all baloney. And the complete lack of any one at WoV responding to any one of your posts and gloriosa claims anymore is proof that everyone knows it.
Now I know you response is going to be to continue to troll and lie about me. No one expects anything less from you. But to hijack all these other threads, that are legit discussions is just disrespectful to people like mickeycrimm that started and are involved in these threads. Stop being such a complete lowlife sleezebag and control yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawgAnd now going on a year trying desperately to establish that he's ever placed a sports bet in his tunnel dwelling life.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJThis is the part I don't get. If someone can REALLY pick winners at 57% consistently, they can make a lot of money. What do they need 'clients' for?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
What is the final line in the movie Casino? Rosenthal says something like "in the end I was right back where I started. I could always pick winners". If you can pick winners, you pick winners. Everything else just complicates it with more hands in the cookie jar.
The one thing I learned from Red was about all the contests and stuff. I had no idea. There is definitely hidden EV in playing these contests for players that are good sports handicappers. But I just don't get this client stuff. Red will call me stupid and that is fine. I never claimed to be an expert in sports betting. Just trying to pick up a few things along the way that can result in some +Ev plays, especially after the bonuses dry up.
Yeah, stupid would be too kind.
If somebody can make a good hamburger and sell it to his neighborhood, why would he want to own a restaurant? Or a chain of restaurants?
Of course, when you are a whizbang card counter who got a scholarship to Villanova but decides after a year that his uncle was paying too much...LOL. I guess transferring credits to a moderately priced college wasn't part of "the math." Who in God's name believes any of your bullshit?
What are you really doing on these forums, kewlJ(s)? Trying to hook investors? Trying to hook up with (as opposed to hook -- see what I did there?) folks in need of male companionship?
Nobody could possibly be as dense-when-convenient as you are.
And for all of your variance spiels and bullshit annual reports, you ignore variance as it pertains to "sports betting," which is either incredibly stupid or incredibly dishonest. Hard to tell which.
MDawg, you can quote me on this, and you don't even need to buy me a coffee.
Also, that reminds me -- I'm heading to LV in a week. The Riddler, who retired from posting here, says he has a couple teams I should examine at Circa. Anybody who wants to share coffee and pie, drop me a line at IntegritySports@aol.com.
Adios, and thanks for all the fish.
Redietz, incredibly intentional dishonest post from you. Everything from "my uncle" to hook up reference. I expect that from the trolls. Shame on you.
Don't they teach business courses at Nova?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Mickey found an archive of redietzs site where he offered a return. IiRC the range was 8 to 11 % but no idea. Mickey pointed out that the ROI is basically EV under a different name.
When you've got a 57% long term win average the variance don't mean shit in a contest where you can hit 50% just by throwing darts at the spreadsheet. Sportsbetting is one of the lowest variance gambling games out there.Try video poker if you want to see some variance. Also, variance is a two-way street.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJThis is the part I don't get. If someone can REALLY pick winners at 57% consistently, they can make a lot of money. What do they need 'clients' for?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
What is the final line in the movie Casino? Rosenthal says something like "in the end I was right back where I started. I could always pick winners". If you can pick winners, you pick winners. Everything else just complicates it with more hands in the cookie jar.
The one thing I learned from Red was about all the contests and stuff. I had no idea. There is definitely hidden EV in playing these contests for players that are good sports handicappers. But I just don't get this client stuff. Red will call me stupid and that is fine. I never claimed to be an expert in sports betting. Just trying to pick up a few things along the way that can result in some +Ev plays, especially after the bonuses dry up.
Yeah, stupid would be too kind.
If somebody can make a good hamburger and sell it to his neighborhood, why would he want to own a restaurant? Or a chain of restaurants?
Of course, when you are a whizbang card counter who got a scholarship to Villanova but decides after a year that his uncle was paying too much...LOL. I guess transferring credits to a moderately priced college wasn't part of "the math." Who in God's name believes any of your bullshit?
What are you really doing on these forums, kewlJ(s)? Trying to hook investors? Trying to hook up with (as opposed to hook -- see what I did there?) folks in need of male companionship?
Nobody could possibly be as dense-when-convenient as you are.
And for all of your variance spiels and bullshit annual reports, you ignore variance as it pertains to "sports betting," which is either incredibly stupid or incredibly dishonest. Hard to tell which.
MDawg, you can quote me on this, and you don't even need to buy me a coffee.
Also, that reminds me -- I'm heading to LV in a week. The Riddler, who retired from posting here, says he has a couple teams I should examine at Circa. Anybody who wants to share coffee and pie, drop me a line at IntegritySports@aol.com.
Adios, and thanks for all the fish.
With a 9% edge and kelly betting a 100 unit bankroll will turn into a 200 unit bankroll in just 10 bets, a 300 unit bankroll in just 15 bets, a million dollar bankroll in just 41 bets. Of course these are averages.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJThis is the part I don't get. If someone can REALLY pick winners at 57% consistently, they can make a lot of money. What do they need 'clients' for?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
What is the final line in the movie Casino? Rosenthal says something like "in the end I was right back where I started. I could always pick winners". If you can pick winners, you pick winners. Everything else just complicates it with more hands in the cookie jar.
The one thing I learned from Red was about all the contests and stuff. I had no idea. There is definitely hidden EV in playing these contests for players that are good sports handicappers. But I just don't get this client stuff. Red will call me stupid and that is fine. I never claimed to be an expert in sports betting. Just trying to pick up a few things along the way that can result in some +Ev plays, especially after the bonuses dry up.
Using a conservative half kelly would take just twice as many bets.
If you bet other people's money for a 10% take you are cutting your edge to less than 1%. So no, it don't make sense to make other people money when you can make it all for yourself at a very fast pace using kelly. That is, if you are a 57% college football handicapper.
I've never seen redietz write about kelly betting much less whether he used it or not. He definitely SHOULD HAVE used it.
What about both betting his own money @ 9% return,Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
plus 9 clients @ 1% each?
Wouldn't that double his earn, with the same risk?
I remember stock broker friends getting signing bonuses in the form of forgivable loans, with the stipulation that they must use the loan principle to match the investments that they hooked their clients into.
That's pretty similar to what Integrity Sports does, and uh yeah...it makes sense to do that.
All the time, effort, and work that goes into recruiting clients,Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWhat about both betting his own money @ 9% return,Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
plus 9 clients @ 1% each?
Wouldn't that double his earn, with the same risk?
I remember stock broker friends getting signing bonuses in the form of forgivable loans, with the stipulation that they must use the loan principle to match the investments that they hooked their clients into.
That's pretty similar to what Integrity Sports does, and uh yeah...it makes sense to do that.
making/updating websites, dealing with payouts, keeping the books, doing the seminars, needing to prove yourself (constantly having to tout your records), and whatever else goes into it shouldn't be worth it. Also, you're going to be limited, backed off, lose accounts, move lines, etc much faster for much less.
It isn't all bad if you are reaping their rewards and keeping them for yourself via cashback, reduced vig, free contests, loyalty points, bonus money etc.
How does one measure or decide if their work is worth it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Should they let you decide for them?
Because it sounds like your standard is...if you have to work for it, then it's not worth it.
Just seems to me the more people you involve, the more things can go wrong or something can go south.
If someone can really pick 57% on a regular basis, just do it. That would be like printing money. Yes there is variance involved. There is always variance involved. And I love that Red is going to tell me that I don't understand variance. I play a game with less than 1% advantage and have dealt with variance for 20+ years. Sometimes pretty extreme variance. Which I have shared.
If you are afraid of variance you shouldn't be playing at all. And if you have a significant advantage, which you would picking 57%. and you are afraid of variance, something is really wrong.
Financially, that work and time would be better spent just betting for yourself making 100% of the profits. There's a limit to how much money can get down on games in many cases, I assume more so in college football. It would be far better for someome to get down 50k on a game for himself than to get down 25k for himself and 25k for his investors.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyHow does one measure or decide if their work is worth it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Should they let you decide for them?
Because it sounds like your standard is...if you have to work for it, then it's not worth it.
If you can pick 57% and you have been doing it for years.
Refer to MC's Kelly examples and see just how fast your wealth should grow. That number goes way up when you start getting half juice and you get bonuses, free contests, rebates, etc.
Im still looking for examples of well-known professional bettors that take on investors.
Did I miss it or is redietz still ducking Axel's request for questions to ask Anthony Curtis?
Are you assuming that the "advisor" handles all of the betting through his own accounts, that the clients don't have their own accounts?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Do pay-me-if-you-win touts put action down for their clients, or do the clients use their own bookies?
Why do you use a team for your plays?
Isn't it because you are individually limited as to how much action you can get down?
You get 100% of the profits on your action, plus a percentage of your "employees" action...the action they run through based on the information you gave them.
Isn't that how your teams work?
Is he on the clock or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Anyway, nobody ducks more questions or requests than Axel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs he on the clock or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Anyway, nobody ducks more questions or requests than Axel.
Wouldn't he make an initial response regardless?
Seems to me that the work and time required for the analysis is paramount, it doesn't lack the required attention no matter how many clients are involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Go back and read the thread and you should be able to figure it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Get back to me if you need help translating the ditz-speak, and I'll try to wise you up.
Come to think of it, it seems like he isn't really on the cock since he has time to piddle fuck around with freebee football contests.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs he on the clock or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Anyway, nobody ducks more questions or requests than Axel.
The people who I know who make a good living at sports betting don't have time for that type of nonsense they put a lot of time and effort into their craft.
A well-rounded "do it all" Advantage Play team is drastically different from a professional sports bettor.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyAre you assuming that the "advisor" handles all of the betting through his own accounts, that the clients don't have their own accounts?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Do pay-me-if-you-win touts put action down for their clients, or do the clients use their own bookies?
Why do you use a team for your plays?
Isn't it because you are individually limited as to how much action you can get down?
You get 100% of the profits on your action, plus a percentage of your "employees" action...the action they run through based on the information you gave them.
Isn't that how your teams work?
There are multiple different advantages being part of a team that really shouldn't come into play sports betting. For example, there could be a machine that needs to be locked up 24/7 in order to capture all the value. A team can cover multiple locations and even multiple States at one time. Various different people on your team may have different skill skills that drastically help things run more efficiently. With a team, an individual can take more time off at a moment's notice without much disturbance to whatever you have going on at the time. The list goes on and on.
Allowing investors access and the responsibility of running their accounts seems like a recipe for disaster.
Multiple accounts betting the same games might certainly raise some suspicions and if you're going out of your way to coordinate cover play and whatnot that's cutting into your time and ability to properly handicap. Once again, having investors creates complications and problems that damper your ability to maximize your value.
As mentioned before, I guess it's all a moot point since we don't have enough details of what's going on.
I do, since when? That is a complete lie. Feel free to point them out. I may miss somthing or get onto another subject, but im not ducking questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs he on the clock or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Anyway, nobody ducks more questions or requests than Axel.
Is that how it works, you ask questions but don't answer questions, then claim that you missed the questions except for the ones that you asked?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
I can list questions that you didn't answer and ducked.
How many do I need to list for you to admit that you are ducking?
I have answered more stuff than most people. its simple, re-ask one at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs that how it works, you ask questions but don't answer questions, then claim that you missed the questions except for the ones that you asked?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
I can list questions that you didn't answer and ducked.
How many do I need to list for you to admit that you are ducking?
He certainly isn’t on the clock for appearing for an interview. That clock broke. Same with the credit score.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs he on the clock or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Anyway, nobody ducks more questions or requests than Axel.
Coach, besides the Anthony Curtis questions axel also issued a challenge. Don’t hold your breath for redietz to get back to him on that one.
The clients obviously had to deliver money to redietz. He would want full control of the money. Reason number one is to make sure he gets paid. Reason 2, the client can’t pull out of the process anytime he wants to.
From reading the Integrity Sports ad it appeared to me that redietz was requesting investors to send him money at the beginning of the season and they get paid at the end of the season.
Years ago when I started on the blackjack forums, players tended to discuss the results in terms of units. That just didn't work for a variety of reasons. So I started discussing my results, both session and yearly, in dollars. It was the only way to really know just what people were talking about
And I see some of the same kind of guessing about numbers here. So, I am going to ask a question, I probably won't get an answer to. Redietz, for your 40-45 years you say you were a professional sports bettor, what kind of money did you make a year? (Average)
It's not about how much money you make, but the friends you make along the way.
Did you know one of redietz friends got 2nd place in the under 12 years old division of the Minnewaska Township Annual Spelling Bee in 1972?
Of course I knew that. I read it in the 1972 McCusker report.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Have you turned others onto AP plays, where they use their own money, and cut you in on the profits?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and cut them in on the profits?
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and paid them even if they did not profit?
What will your reaction be if he ignores your question, or answers "none of your business" or "I'll prove my earnings to you for a fee" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I won't hold my breath, because this was posted...Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Before Axel posted these...Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Yes, of course. He has done this before. Obviously because I ask some tough questions and he knows I know enough about the scammy side of sports recruiting/touting(for lack of better terms). And he knows I can call his bluffs. He avoided responding to me before when I offered to call Anthony.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
I won't hold my breath, because this was posted...
Before Axel posted these...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
I have avoided/ducked those questions on the past? Please link me to the original post. I'm sure I have touched on this subject before. We can get into the the yes or no and details but first link me to the post where I ducked those questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyHave you turned others onto AP plays, where they use their own money, and cut you in on the profits?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and cut them in on the profits?
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and paid them even if they did not profit?
I won the very first football contest I ever participated in. There were thousands of entries and I was only in my 20s. Then I took second place on the very next one(I was edged out because a mistake on the tie breaker I picked correctly but was added wrong) 10k and 5k was the prize money.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJOf course I knew that. I read it in the 1972 McCusker report.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
I answered why having a team is beneficial to me #2855. As I said there's a big difference between an all-around AP vs. a specialized sports AP.
When you have employees you are the one putting up the money and you are making a majority of the profits. A tout/investment recruiter with integrity should be passing on most of the profits to his investors.
There are so many different roles an employee can take so there is no simple answer. Employees can be used to simply speed up the process and improve your hourly. For example, there might be a multi-bank of machines with a super high progressive. It's best to be able to lock up those machines so you are assured to capture all the value(such as the meter movement). Let's say there are 4 machines and the total value is 100k over a 40 hours cycle. If you only have 3 of those machines and an outsider has one, you give up 25k in value. If I can pay someone a fraction of that 25k it's more than worthwhile since they are the ones putting in the time. But let's say I decided I wanted to take on investors give them a majority the profits and put the time in myself. That would be a terrible deal for me since I would be putting in the same amount of time and making a fraction of the value.
There was no need to offer explanations of why a team is beneficial under circumstances not included in my questions. But that's what you did, and in the process you ducked the questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
I've added yes or no questions, rephrasing to simplify the earlier questions that you didn't seem to understand, or didn't want to give a straight-forward answer to.
I'm now sure that you understand the questions, and the answers are simple...yes or no.
I'll try again...
Have you turned others onto AP plays, where they use their own money, and cut you in on the profits?
Have you turned others onto AP plays, where they use their own money, and pay you, even if they lost money on the play you gave them?
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and cut them in on the profits?
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and paid them even if their individual play did not profit?
It’s not the first time redietz said it would be the last time he addresses axel. Axel knows enough about the subject that redietz can’t bamboozle him. It pisses redietz off to no end.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
I won't hold my breath, because this was posted...
Before Axel posted these...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
In most cases there was an owner of the team that bankrolled the entire operation. Team members were just employee’s working for an hourly wage plus maybe a bonus. That’s how all the old video poker teams worked. I was offered jobs but always refused.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyQuote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
For the record, Axel is welcome on any program on which I appear so he can debunk me. Same with Mr. Crimm.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIt’s not the first time redietz said it would be the last time he addresses axel. Axel knows enough about the subject that redietz can’t bamboozle him. It pisses redietz off to no end.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
I won't hold my breath, because this was posted...
Before Axel posted these...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Don't disappoint me, Mr. Crimm.
Some of you may remember my arguments with a slot AP named Exoter on Gambling Forums about ten years ago. He used to brag it up about having people working for him. Eventually, he quit posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyHave you turned others onto AP plays, where they use their own money, and cut you in on the profits?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and cut them in on the profits?
Have you given others your money to use on AP plays, and paid them even if they did not profit?
Subsequent to that I met other AP’s back in the Midwest that knew Exoter and told me what he was doing. Exoter was taking total greenhorns and signing them to a contract that he would teach them the plays then they had to go out on their own, play slots on their own money, and pay him half the win.
For the record you’ve never appeared on a program and never will.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzFor the record, Axel is welcome on any program on which I appear so he can debunk me. Same with Mr. Crimm.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIt’s not the first time redietz said it would be the last time he addresses axel. Axel knows enough about the subject that redietz can’t bamboozle him. It pisses redietz off to no end.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Don't disappoint me, Mr. Crimm.
I’m a well known slot AP. That’s what I talk about in the interviews. But you are welcome on the show to impress us with your slot AP knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzFor the record, Axel is welcome on any program on which I appear so he can debunk me. Same with Mr. Crimm.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIt’s not the first time redietz said it would be the last time he addresses axel. Axel knows enough about the subject that redietz can’t bamboozle him. It pisses redietz off to no end.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Don't disappoint me, Mr. Crimm.
According to his skeptical gambler blog, in the 1973 contest, his current girlfriend (11 years old at the time) performed poorly, consequently she was not able to close out 1st place after the third round, and had to settle for locking up 1st in the fourth round. The low turnout of only 5000 participants threw off her motivation according to the blog - hence the poor performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay