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In 2007 or 2008, they had weekly rates. My Id was from PA at the time, but I don't remember that being a requirement. Maybe it was.
But even though you paid by the week, it seemed many of the dudes and it was mostly dudes, lived there permanently.
It was fine for a cheap home base for a guy in mid 20's with limited bankroll for a month, but I couldn't do it today. I have grown way to spoiled.
Funny how the older we get, the less we choose to accept / tolerate viz. our comfort.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Back when I had long hair and a beard I spent four or so months driving around the country, staying with friends and relatives when possible and camping out otherwise, using a Camp Trails pup tent, ensolite pad and sleeping bag.
I quickly got used to it and it was fine, even in subfreezing weather high in the mtns. near Ouray, Colorado.
Today?
I wouldn't dream of doing it again: I'd miss all the comforts of home.
I only entered the Westen, I think twice. The first during this trip in 2007 or 2008. There were no blackjack tables and I wasn't playing VP yet, so no reason to spend any time there. I certainly did notice the level of clientele there. Hard not to notice. And that is fine. I have been in other very low type places with shady clientele. Big Horn in N Las Vegas comes to mind.
The second time I visited Western would have been after I moved to Vegas and started playing VP as a supplement to blackjack. I thought Western might be a place that I could generate a mailer from. But they didn't even have a players card or card readers at that time, so again, no reason for me to spend much time there.
But I do get the feeling that that type of clientele was the same as "lived" at Ogdon house during the time I stayed there. There were a couple other similar places to Ogdon house at that time, where it seemed lower end players "lived" permanently. One was Dragon hotel a couple blocks from El Cortez. And the second a motel right next to the post office at LVB and Carson. I haven't paid attention as to if either remains today. These places were like a cheaper, lower end version of the weekly places spread throughout Vegas. They say weekly or monthly but people live there permanently at that time.
What I do remember about my short time at Ogdon house, was that I took everything of value with me each day. Wasn't the kind of place you would leave something of value in your room. ;)
There was absolutely Blackjack at Western in that time frame. In fact it was a $1 game much of the time, then went to a $2 game closer to the end. It wasn’t something you would have played with players jumping in and out with a $5 buy in often. And anyone betting $5+ a hand was looked at with high suspicion.
People grabbing chips and running wasn’t uncommon so they covered the tray and “maybe” the dealer had access to a couple greens. In fact Monet even talked about loaning a guy money to double and not getting it back.
Guessing you didn’t remember it, but they definitely offered Blackjack.
I am not going to argue with you Boz, but am just wondering if you are speaking of the same time frame. I am talking 2007/2008. Possible they had table games prior....I don't know. When I visited, there wasn't any signs of table games or a table game pit. It was basically a slot parlor. Same deal with Gold Spike at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by The BozThere was absolutely Blackjack at Western in that time frame. In fact it was a $1 game much of the time, then went to a $2 game closer to the end. It wasn’t something you would have played with players jumping in and out with a $5 buy in often. And anyone betting $5+ a hand was looked at with high suspicion.
People grabbing chips and running wasn’t uncommon so they covered the tray and “maybe” the dealer had access to a couple greens. In fact Monet even talked about loaning a guy money to double and not getting it back.
Guessing you didn’t remember it, but they definitely offered Blackjack.
edit/add: A quick check of the website says Barrick purchased Western in 2004, but then leased it to Tameres group in 2005, who assumed total operational control. Is it possible that is when they did away with table games, which would have been just a couple years prior to the time period I am referencing?
Additionally, I am certain that I never saw live $1 blackjack in Vegas. I am sure there was some, but before my time. Cheapest I saw was $2 at Longhorn and that went to $3. My first visit to Jokers Wild was $3. Possibly Railroad pass was $3 on my first visit.
I checked all these places for playable blackjack for me. For the most part $5 blackjack and under wasn't really playable for me, even if I toned down my spread. My max bet would just be too much for them to be comfortable with. It just became not worth it to me to be playing $5/$10 tables, playing green to black. But I did check and had a fairly up to date spread sheet of conditions at all casinos. My info was better and more accurate than Wongs Current Blackjack News or Shacklefords list of casinos and limits. :rolleyes:
I have enjoyed this thread, reading accounts from early days play from some of you and adding a bit of my own early experiences. I really wish there was more of this.
But it got me thinking. Many APs, both blackjack and non-BJ, have similar stories about skimping and scrounging in their early days while building a bankroll. For me, that time was mostly Atlantic City, but the stories are all basically the same. A fight for survival while building BR with an eye towards the future. Not all but most, something similar.
When my brother moved to Vegas after graduating college, he didn't go through that. I did have him play a year at red chip $5/$10 level to get his feet wet, but then helped get him set up playing green to black. It has been 10 years now for him and he is doing fine, but I wonder if I deprived him of that period that most APs went through building up and working towards the future. :confused: I am sure he would say no, but I wonder.
I think the last time I was at the Western was 2002. They had $1 blackjack just inside the front door. You could see the tables from the street.
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Originally Posted by accountinquestion
To be fair, a LOT of people avoided being drafted for Vietnam. People even fled to CANADA to avoid the Vietnam War. Can you blame Trump for not wanting to be drafted for a WAR? I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Yes, I can and I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
We're not talking about "Trump and The Apprentice."
No, now he's the Commander of the USA's armed forces.
Logically, one would look for stalwart, brave, patriotic people to lead our armed forces into battle, not craven cowards who hid behind daddy's money.
After reading mickey's post, and racking my brain, "tables just inside the front door" rang a bell with me. At the time of my 2007/2008 visit there may have been craps tables just inside the front door. But there was no blackjack. The purpose of my visit at that time was looking for blackjack games, so if there had been blackjack tables that weren't even open, I would have checked back. But there were no blackjack tables at all so I had no reason to check back.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
The next time I was in Western was 2011 and I was looking for VP, not table games, and I still believe there were no table games at that point. It was just a slot parlor type place. And they closed months later in early 2012.
So Boz, no doubt you are correct that there was $1 blackjack, just not towards the end when my visits took place. But I think you are right that even at my lowest level days (which were back in AC), I wouldn't have been happy playing with that clientele. :D
BTW, players jumping in and out of the game isn't something that bothers me, other than it slows the game down, with one exception. Ploppies complain about the flow of cards and shit, but any real player knows better.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
That one exception would be the wongers, who jump in as soon as the count turns good. They are blackjacks version of vultures. They are essentially stealing EV and ultimately money from those of us that have worked the count. I will glare at them, but it has no effect. Better than doing what I would really like to do to them. Luckily, I don't have that happen too often. Encountered it back east more than in Vegas.
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Originally Posted by MDawg
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Originally Posted by MaxPen
KJ, I don't play blackjack but have kept my eyes and ears open about the game and I recall reading somewhere that in order to prevent wonging some if not many or most casinos can prohibit mid-shoe entry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I assume that if wonging is happening that there is no blanket prohibition on mid-shoe entry?
Give him time to look that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVKJ, I don't play blackjack but have kept my eyes and ears open about the game and I recall reading somewhere that in order to prevent wonging some if not many or most casinos can prohibit mid-shoe entry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I assume that if wonging is happening that there is no blanket prohibition on mid-shoe entry?
Since you are such a fucking genius Rob, why don't you tell us all, exactly where someone would look something like that up? (and don't anyone else give him the answer)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerGive him time to look that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVKJ, I don't play blackjack but have kept my eyes and ears open about the game and I recall reading somewhere that in order to prevent wonging some if not many or most casinos can prohibit mid-shoe entry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I assume that if wonging is happening that there is no blanket prohibition on mid-shoe entry?
Now to answer your question MrV...sort of. With double deck blackjack there is a lot of no mid-shoe entry (NMSE) throughout Vegas. I would say 75%. With 6 and 8 deck shoe games much less. Some at high limits, but almost none on the main floor.
And this makes sense from the casino point if you think about it. A 6 deck game can take 15 minutes to get to the shuffle at times. 8 deck even longer with a slow paced game. Does a casino really want to tell a player that wants to sit down and play "sir you have to wait 20 minutes"? Just think if they did that to someone wanting to play slots? :D And really, what is the percentage of people that want to sit down actually wonging into a +count, +EV situation? Far less than 1%
So any casino restricting shoe games is cutting off their nose to spite their face. Losing a dollar (by making potential losing player wait), to save a nickel. That type of thing. If you actually see a NMSE sign or policy on a shoe game, you can take that as a hint that it is a very sweaty casino and they aren't going to let you spread much and get much money down anyway.
It'll be quite a wait. Not sure you can look this up, as I'm not sure there is a blanket rule by company or casino. So a response would require actual detailed knowledge and possibly include different rules for different limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerGive him time to look that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVKJ, I don't play blackjack but have kept my eyes and ears open about the game and I recall reading somewhere that in order to prevent wonging some if not many or most casinos can prohibit mid-shoe entry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I assume that if wonging is happening that there is no blanket prohibition on mid-shoe entry?
How likely is it that kewlJ gives the rundown? That rundown could be double-checked today if he posts it.
He waxes eloquent and at length regarding many things he knows little about. It'll sure (cough, cough) be strange if he doesn't respond immediately regarding something he should know like the back of his hand.
I think V did this on purpose. He is, after all, a barrister.
My bad. No detailed rundown. Just a generic response. Of course. Surprise, surprise, as Gomer would say. I'll say this for the KewlJ(s). They are consistent. His answer could have come from someone in LV or Butte or Asheville. As usual.
He's really good at that.
You can't do it today because the options do not exist anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
These days it costs you 400 per week.
In those days and days prior it was around 300 to 400 PER MONTH.
Let me explain the issue with the KewlJ(s) responses, for those who are new to the subject.
I was in Las Vegas for a week about six weeks ago. Now, if someone asked me to run down the differences in futures odds for half a dozen different sports books, I could do that in a ballpark way. If I were discussing various trips taken over years, those answers would be reasonably consistent as to who had the most generous odds, but it would not be entirely consistent trip to trip, or sport to sport, or team to team. The differences would be what I remember, even six weeks ago.
So when a blackjack player is asked a rules question, and he was allegedly playing today and yesterday and last week, and that player goes out of his way to respond with NO actual details or specifics, you gotta ask why. It is either really strange, quite a consistent coincidence, or something else.
My personal description of kewlJ's posts is that they are like comic strip panels with the featured protagonist in every panel, but no background at all. One has to wonder why.
When you actually think about it, one would expect a blackjack professional to be able to quote chapter and verse regarding specifics while leaving his own character out of the discussion. In other words, one would expect a professional to have comic strip panels full of all sorts of details but with a blank silhouette in place of the main character.