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Don't be retarded, most dealers have no fucking clue whats going on, they know the rules(well maybe) and some might know basic strategy and few know how to count.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneHitWonder
For starters. They, the ones who "play" a lot more than you, will tell you the basic strategy rules of what to hit, etc, against what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dankyone
I wouldn't change my career one bit. Or my life. I've been a night person most of my life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biloxi BillThat is quite a list for 3AM...working on a website....going thru a drive thru at presumably some fast food joint....getting gas (lol,that one always gets me)... stopping off at a casino to take pictures to try and prove some total stranger wrong on a website...and taking your girlfriends doggy for a walk....It`s rather confusing keeping track of your wives and girlfriends, but perhaps you might want to try more enriching endeavors at 3AM and maybe you won`t run thru females like a fat housewife runs thru bon-bons....wise up dummy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
By the way a new movie is being shot at Caesars Palace this week. They begin shooting at 3am in the casino and for very practical reasons. That's the way it is in the media business.
I won't block you. If you ever make another fantasy claim I'll question it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJAnd while I was blocking, I added a couple other names. I think this solves all my issues with this site. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
And please stop your immature claims that I'm against AP. We all want advantage play. But we want real advantage play and not fantasies.
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
see: http://www.laobserved.com/archive/20...ned_to_ala.php
"What ever happened to: Alan Mendelson"
By Kevin Roderick | September 20, 2010 8:52 PM
Alan Mendelson, the former Channel 9 business and consumer reporter, talks to the L.A. Business Journal about his kidney and pancreas transplant, his infomercials pitching paid products and how he sees his firing from KCAL after 16 years.
They said, “We can replace you with two or three other reporters.” They let go of me and a bunch of other people over the age of 50. No mistake about it. We were replaced by younger people with blond hair and C-cups who made a lot less money. That’s the reality of the business."
________________________
Sounds like you once yearned for C-cups.
MisterV I have been in AFTRA jobs since 1972. I have a very comfortable pension (not a 401k but a real pension) I have a Cadillac health plan for life. I have interviewed four presidents, spent time with the Queen of England and the King of Spain. I've had excitement in my life others can only dream of. I've dated a Miss Florida, a Miss Miami, a Miss Israel and for a short time I was martied to a title holder from Arizona. What went on is none of your business but you can dream about it.
Yes I wouldn't change a thing.
And when I left the news business I continued my SAG-AFTRA career doing Infomercials and made even more money.
No regrets here. And I've had C Cups. LOL
You sure sounded bitter there in that interview, Alan: you got the bum's rush because you aged out.
We all know you'd rather have continued your KCAL career as a journalist through the present time.
Peddling schlock via your website must seem a poor substitute.
Still and all, we play the cards we're dealt.
I wouldn't call the high end home remodeling companies, or the lawyers, or mortgage companies I represent as "peddling schlock." And it's not just a website but a weekly TV show that has 200,000 viewers. Frankly, I have more viewers now watching my weekly TV show than I ever had watching my noon news report on KCAL.
As many as fifty of us were let go. We were all paid handsome amounts not to sue them for age discrimination, and all but one signed the agreement and took the cash. I took the cash. I walked away with more than two years of full pay... and two weeks later I was back on the air with my new program and company.
I'm not attacking you; rather, I am pointing out that you were bullshitting a little bit about not wanting to change your career one bit.
Admit it: you were let go from KCAL against your will; you'd have rather stayed.
Instead of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaBwBD4osp4
Which is fine; no disgrace there.
But not what you'd prefer, eh?
I'm sorry but my career hasn't changed. I've been in TV since 1973 and radio since 1966. The messages have changed but I'm still doing what I love to do.
It's interesting you picked the video for the $5.99 Clothing Stores on my Infomercial show. When I was doing the news on KCAL I also reported on this clothing chain as the consumer reporter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
It doesn't matter which one I picked.
The only point I am trying to make is that you took umbrage to being terminated.
That is a part of your career which you'd love to change.
You'd relish the ability to continue to reach a wider audience through KCAL.
It's only natural to crave the light once it's removed.
Yeah, MisterV, it was me and about 50 others who were over the age of 50 and did not have our contracts renewed. So what's your point?
The day I was called into the News Director's office I was not surprised. I was not one of the first to be let go. I was given 30 days notice plus a severance package worth more than two years of full pay. I immediately went back to my office and called my wife and then I called three PR firms that I dealt with for various stories and told them what had happened. (It was no surprise to them either, this house cleaning of 50+ employees had already made the papers and the TV websites.) All three of them said the same thing: Alan, start your own show.
And two weeks later I was back on the air. I ran the show first on KCAL -- but then other stations made me a better offer and I moved the show.
As I said I now have a bigger audience (that means higher ratings) than I ever had on the news. And I even got to employ my son and daughter in the new "family business" though it's a part time job for them and they have other pursuits as well.
Ironically, most of the companies I regularly featured on the news for their "Best Buys" (my segment on KCAL was also called "Best Buys") followed me to my own TV show -- but now they had to buy the advertising time. 80% of the advertisers on my TV show today started with me on my own show more than 11 years ago.
By the way, this wasn't my first time in advertising. Years ago I was a partner in a radio station in suburban New York City, and I sold advertising then. So during my career I've pretty much done it all from "news stringer" (I was a stringer, Rob Singer was not), to part-timer, to overnight DJ, to part-owner, to network assignment editor and network reporter to local TV reporter to TV Infomercial Host.
It's been a lot of fun. As I often say when I am invited to speak to schools and church groups: it's been so much fun I can't believe that they paid me to do it.
Yes it mattered. You were alleging that I push schlock and that's why you picked a discount clothing chain selling clothing at $5.99. You also could have picked one of my videos for a law firm or for a mortgage company or for a trade school, but you didn't. You picked the $5.99 Clothing Store.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Show business is a tough place for older people.
Even Rick Dees, one of the most successful DJs in LA history, found himself out of a job at age 53, and no one really wanted to hire him anymore. He's been mostly out of radio ever since, save for a short-lived show on a different station, and some syndicated crap.
While Alan's show is indeed an infomercial, at least it seems he made a decent career move out of it, and parlayed his notoriety on KCAL into something profitable.
Actually, Dan, Rick Dees at one time was a national radio figure with a syndicated radio show out of LA that played across the country.
He is back in LA radio now, sometimes doing "special" weekend shows.
The media business has flip flopped. When I worked at CBS News in the 1970s I wasn't permitted to being on the CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite because I was "too young." Instead I was assigned to do reports for other CBS network shows and to do radio where no one could see I had no gray in my hair. But today, it's all about having on air talent under the age of 40. And the reason is TV is trying to get more younger people to watch. That big change started about 10-12 years ago. KCAL, by the way, is a CBS owned station.
(Yawn)...Can you please tell me where I can buy the book "My Life as a Tapdancer,The Alan (All About Me) Mendelson Story"....included with a side of No-Doz :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill
Yeah, I just LOVE how this thread about one of the top BJ AP's confirming what I said, turned into The Alan Mendelson Story. :rolleyes:.
But I am done discussing tracking multiple tables in this thread or any other thread, so whatever.
Early on, after I started posting here, someone brought up "wonging", so I casually mentioned my version of "wonging" which is to track a second table and jump to a better opportunity. This being a fairly common technique that experienced counters have employed for decades, I had no idea it would be an ongoing discussion for 6 months, with me revealing so many details. In hindsight, it is a good thing this site has very limited membership and hopefully not (m)any casino personnel lurking.
So Alan you are not only free to believe whatever you like (but be careful sailing....I wouldn't want you to sail off the edge of the earth), but I encourage you to continue to argue the case against tracking multiple tables. :) Hell I encourage you to continue to argue the case against the possibility of advantage play and in particular card counting. Please post a few more times how there is no advantage to be gained without seeing every card. Maybe you could even print that out and send it to some of the casino execs. :cool:
Kewlj are you reading my posts again?
Quick update: I am measuring the distances of various tables and eyeballing the visual requirements. It looks to me like taking photos with a phone can be massaged in either direction. A phone view really isn't an eyeball view. My eyesight is not 20/20, so if I can do a particular distance, pretty much anybody can except Mr. Magoo. I'll provide details next week, but my preliminary observation is that in terms of visual acuity, it can pretty clearly be done at both Palace Station and the Orleans. The Boyd properties, in general, seem to have somewhat shorter distances from a mid-table seat to the center of the next table over.
Dealers and pit bosses look at me somewhat strangely, but nobody's asked or approached regarding my measuring the distances. I'll be checking strip properties in the next day or two.
Redietz don't forget to look at the dealers at two adjoining tables. Are they dealing at the same time? And check the view with players at the tables. We want to know how your visibility changes with the number of players. It's more than just distance.
MisterV any more questions about my career?
You bet I have questions.
Did you get to meet eighteen presidents in a row?
Of all the C-cups you've had, which one fit you the best?
But seriously, it sounds like you've lived a flashy life filled with change, which is OK, but not something I'd relish.
Me, I dwell in obscurity, which is how I like it.
To each his own.
First is to establish that one doesn't have to be Hawkman to do it. Since I haven't played (or thought about) blackjack in roughly 30 years, let me ask a question or two. Isn't the core logic of this that, no matter the obstruction, all counts are partial counts. So any count based on seeing just, say, half the cards any given hand at another table, is still a count? Albeit less reliable than a full count, it still retains an element of reliability so that a tremendous advantage at that table versus a negative situation at the current table still yields an opportunity to switch tables, correct? You just have to balance the cost/benefit of switching tables as a tip-off against how "partial" your count on the table happens to be.
Redietz also ask if entering mid shoe are you limited to betting at the table minimum which is something that was mentioned. If so, what's the point of moving tables in the first place?
No kidding. :confused: I think I said that about 5 months ago. Alan's whole exercise was "massaged" as you call it. But "manipulated" is really more accurate. Manipulated, deceitful and dishonest.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Hold on a second. Redietz hasn't told us if he can see the cards yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJNo kidding. :confused: I think I said that about 5 months ago. Alan's whole exercise was "massaged" as you call it. But "manipulated" is really more accurate. Manipulated, deceitful and dishonest.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Measure all you want. But what happens when there's actual play.
The distance from one table to another is only one factor.
At the tables I examined, I can see cards. There's no question about that. The question is just about how much obstruction occurs. The distance on the Palace Station tables, measured from the middle seat of one table to the middle of the table off to the left or right, is about 120 inches. The distance on Boyd tables varies a little, but is somewhat less, roughly 100-110 inches. At these distances, you can read more than just "pips and paint" with less than perfect vision. Set it up at home at those distances and try it yourself. One thing that struck me is how the lighting on the casino floor is so much better than in a casino room or other locations. My living room and bedroom at home are dark compared to the casino floor. Now I presume the strip tables will have significantly further distances, but I'll measure them. I'm talking about tables not on aisles, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonHold on a second. Redietz hasn't told us if he can see the cards yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJNo kidding. :confused: I think I said that about 5 months ago. Alan's whole exercise was "massaged" as you call it. But "manipulated" is really more accurate. Manipulated, deceitful and dishonest.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Measure all you want. But what happens when there's actual play.
The distance from one table to another is only one factor.
How wide are the tables themselves...measured across the dealer's side from 1st to 3rd base?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Tell us about obstructions too. When you are viewing the cards at a second table are you sitting at the firat table or standing? How many players at your table and the second. How about a photo?
I'm not standing. I'm seated at eye level. I actually scrunch down to make it harder so there's no question. Thus far, acuity is not a problem. It's just a question of choosing opportunities when there are no obstructions. But I assume strip tables will have longer distances, so I'll wait to comment on that. The height of the empty chairs at the other table comes into play, but only if you're a little person seated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
What I suggest everyone do is simply lay out cards at the distances mentioned and establish that acuity is not an issue. Then post and let everybody know.
Putting cards on your wall at thirty feet is not an issue.
The issue is obstructions and timing of the hands being played on two tables.
Ok, against my better judgment, I am going to go over this one more time (with some quotes to refresh some memories).
On 8/07 , at 11:11pm, in response to Dan Druff's comment about sitting out negative counts (wonging style of play), I first mentioned that I try to track a second table when I can. PLEASE, PLEASE, note where I said "I try to track a second table".
So over the next 18 hours as questions were raised, I attempted to explain the best I could. PLEASE note "You just track the cards as best you can" and from the second quote below, "But if not...so be it. There are times during crowded conditions that I can't track multiple tables". This is extremely important, because almost immediately, I said you can't always do it. I do it when I can!Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
So Alan's first challenge was the following morning after I initially mentioned tracking a second table.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Alan followed that with this weird post about turning around in your seat. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
As you can see, Alan's play here was to say that a player couldn't see the next table. And of course he followed that up with blurry pictures taken from the wrong seat, manipulated to support his claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
So now we fast forward to today. Redietz accepted Alan's challenge (because he is a glutton for punishment :rolleyes:) and went to several casinos to measure the tables. Redietz conclusion: Just as I have been saying for months, that yes you can see the cards at a second table.
So now Alan's argument has changed from "not possible to see the cards at the second table" to "the view being obstructed". Guess what?? I said that immediately after I made the first statement......5 months ago! YES sometimes you are obstructed and can't see the cards at the second table!!!! (READ ABOVE). I said "I can't always do it, but I do it when I can!"
I mean seriously, WTF, Alan. I have asked this before and I am asking again...Are you retarded? :confused: I don't mean that as an insult. I mean that as....is there something mentally wrong with you? :confused:
Having been proven wrong about a person not being able to see the cards 10 feet away, you are now switching your argument to 'possible obstruction'. Something I said immediately after I first stated that "I TRY to do this when I can".
If it seems like I am frustrated here....yes I am. I am frustrated with Alan's manipulation and dishonesty in continuing to try to discredit me, when he has been thoroughly proven wrong. It is not only quite possible to do this, but there are many, professional and experienced players doing so! This is 18 y.o.'s all over again! Alan, you just can't accept when you are wrong and everyone in the entire world knows you are wrong. Just stop Alan!
You are a revisionist. There are many problems associated with trying to track two tables and distance is one of them. Obstacles is another. And the third category which others have raised is the value of the limited information that is obtained when possible.
Adding it all up, it just doesn't matter. Thanks for saying you try to count two tables, thanks for acknowledging the problems with other players.
I thought this was over a long time ago but you kewlj brought up Munchkin and the claim that someone can track three tables.
What's next? Four tables?
I'll call it quits if you will. But if you persist I'll come back at you over and over again.
The third category (listed above) is nonsense, as has been explained by every blackjack expert and math guy. You just don't want to hear it...very similar to the 18 y.o.'s in a row. You refuse to accept the math. Nothing I can do about that....sail off the edge of the earth. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
As for starting this Munchkin thread, I was asked by someone (axelwolf) to contact Richard Munchkin and ask for his expert opinion. I was reluctant to do so, because even without discussing it with him, I already knew what Munchkin (as well as most other experienced professional player would say). I didn't think it would be fair to Munchkin to post what his expert opinion, based not only on his own experiences, but on interviews with numerous other professional blackjack players, was. I knew that would result in you anti-AP deniers, then attacking Munchkin, which is exactly what happened. :( I just didn't think that would be fair to him, being he doesn't participate here.
But again, against my better judgment, I contacted Richard Munchkin and posted his response and he is going to bring up the question on his show in coming weeks. And just like I predicted, Alan and the anti-AP guys attacked Munchkins credibility. Alan, there is just nothing you will accept. I hate to keep bringing it up, but this is exactly like the 18 y.o.'s in a row. You refuse to accept reality, instead opting for your own alternative world and reality.
Who attacked Munchkin?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
OneHitWonder and JSTAT. Also a former a-hole member attacked Richard in an email to me and I hope not, but quite possibly, sent the same attack on directly to Munchkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWho attacked Munchkin?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
To your credit, coach belly, I don't recall YOU attacking or challenging Munchkin's credibility. So, can I ask you: Do you accept Munchkin as an expert opinion?
Redietz, have 30 people stand between the two tables then take a picture. That will satisfy Alan's fantasy that counting two tables can't be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
You caught me off-guard with this response, I assumed you had me blocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJOneHitWonder and JSTAT. Also a former a-hole member attacked Richard in an email to me and I hope not, but quite possibly, sent the same attack on directly to Munchkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWho attacked Munchkin?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
To your credit, coach belly, I don't recall YOU attacking or challenging Munchkin's credibility. So, can I ask you: Do you accept Munchkin as an expert opinion?
But OK...before I answer your question, you wrote above that Alan attacked Munchkin's credibility.
I realize that this is one of my "gotcha" moments, but isn't that a dishonest and deceitful attack on Alan?
Alan, you are really getting deranged over this. Do you really think a professional blackjack player would waste his time counting down a table knowing he won't be able to take advantage of it? You really are clutching at straws here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
More questions, Redietz. What color shirt does the pit boss have on? Is the dealer male or female? If female do you think she used creme rinse? If male do you think he is wearing a toupe? Do you think the guy sitting a first base is transgender? Photos please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Well, I will say I don't recall Alan attacking Richards credibility either, without going back and checking. BUT, Munchkins credibility was questioned by other anti-APers, as a result of Alan continuing with this attempt to discredit me.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyYou caught me off-guard with this reponse, I had assumed you had me blocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJOneHitWonder and JSTAT. Also a former a-hole member attacked Richard in an email to me and I hope not, but quite possibly, sent the same attack on directly to Munchkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
To your credit, coach belly, I don't recall YOU attacking or challenging Munchkin's credibility. So, can I ask you: Do you accept Munchkin as an expert opinion?
But OK...before I answer your question, you wrote above that Alan attacked Munchkin's credibility.
I realize that this is one of my "gotcha" moments, but isn't that a dishonest and deceitful attack on Alan?
I noticed you didn't answer my question. :rolleyes:
For what it is worth, seeing some of Alan's quotes in other members posts (redietz) today, made me want to go back and post some of Alan's quote and in order to quote his posts, I had to unblock him, so I unblocked you at the same time, hoping with one of the instigators gone, I would again see if respectful dialogue and discussion was possible with you (and Alan). Are you suggesting that was a mistake?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmAlan, you are really getting deranged over this. Do you really think a professional blackjack player would waste his time counting down a table knowing he won't be able to take advantage of it? You really are clutching at straws here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
In regards to NMSE, there is usually a little placecard in the corner of the stable stating No Mid Shoe Entry. Same with the betting minimum until the shuffle. If you don't see a card, mid shoe entry is usually allowed. Most places in Vegas allow mid-shoe entry, but not all.
I say "usually allowed", because I have witnessed situations were someone (not me) sat down mid shoe and threw out a large bet and was told NMSE, even though there was no sign. That is a case of a player finding out his actions were outside the casino's comfort level at that time. If he had sat down and wagered $25 or $50 or even a hundred or two, they wouldn't have pulled that "invisible" NMSE rule on him. :rolleyes:
No, Alan has been making a dishonest and deceitful attack on KJ for a simple statement he made about counting two tables. Every objective person here gets the benefit of redietz work. But that does not include Alan. He started with the opinion that it isnt possible and will never publicly change his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Respectful dialogue is not possible as long as you continue to respond like this...Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
There's just no call for this tone...it's patronizing and even more insulting to claim that you don't mean it as an insult.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I'm skeptical that a professional player can spread and play unrated at the same joints for years, count a second table while playing another, jump from table to table when the count dictates, and not get made by the pit. But, I'm in AC where almost all of the green action and above is NMSE, so what you describe is not possible in my experience...certainly not possible to do that and win year after year without getting made.
But that's just my experience, if there are are claims that it can be done in LV then I'd like to see it done, and I'll make myself available to see it done.
But we both (and Axel) know that nobody will demonstrate that under live conditions, so we have a standoff.
I remain skeptical, as I suppose Alan is, but that doesn't mean we're anti-AP, haters, dishonest or retarded.
As far as Munchkin goes, I don't know that much about him, and wouldn't attack his credibility as an expert, except to say that I'm skeptical of his claims in this regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I will say that I loved that brilliant "Dealer Tells" cartoon of his, had it bookmarked and watched it often...but it looks like he took it down from his website.
I disagree that Alan has been dishonest and deceitful. That's your opinion, and not a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmNo, Alan has been making a dishonest and deceitful attack on KJ for a simple statement he made about counting two tables. Every objective person here gets the benefit of redietz work. But that does not include Alan. He started with the opinion that it isnt possible and will never publicly change his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
In my opinion, Alan has been attacked by KJ...I'm sure that the archives will show that to be true.
I also disagree that Alan doubts redietz...he has written many times that he does not doubt redietz.
I can't comment on what benefit anyone here has gotten from redietz work...I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Check out the main pit at Caesars Palace, Alan’s favorite. The blackjack tables are so uncomfortably close together that anyone who can see the cards at his own table can easily see them at adjacent tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
You would be wrong about not "possible to do that year after year without getting made". Although in a sense, "getting made" is less the issue. What I do is only part about trying to hide or disguise what I do. And it's the smaller part. The bigger part is identifying and playing levels that are tolerated, or fall in the 'comfort level' of the casino and pit personnel, for that casino and time/day. That takes a little trial and error to get it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
But, I don't want to get into that. I want to talk about something else you said...the NMSE in AC. You are correct that AC has more NMSE than other areas of the country, including Vegas, as well as including your neighboring state to the west, Pa.
I presume you have read enough of my posts to know that I started my career in AC, first 5 1/2 years. When I relocated to Vegas there were two things that I was looking forward to that I thought would be a big advantage to me. One was spreading to two hands which was not very often possible in AC because of crowded conditions. The second was back counting and "wonging" into positive counts (mid shoe entry), which was not allowed in AC but was allowed in Vegas.
Unfortunately, neither worked out as I though. Spreading to two hands, while it was something you could do because conditions where less crowded in Vegas, simply is not tolerated in Vegas nearly as much as other parts of the country. Pit will often come over and start flipping through the discard tray, as soon as you spread to two hands, looking at the cards already played. Not exactly very subtle! Only takes a couple times to get the message. :(
Now, the entering mid-shoe and wonging didn't work out, because, while it is allowed, the uncrowded conditions, makes it very obvious when you are standing around back counting. WAY TOO obvious. But, what I found did work, especially at the really uncrowded casinos away from the strip (the local type places) is tracking a second table and jumping to a better count opportunity. And it is not as obvious as you and Alan seem to think.
Edit: Info removed
None of this is by accident. When I moved to Vegas, a player on another site, bigplayer, (a former member of xxxxx xxxxxxx teams), who I learned so much from, said, and this is one of my favorite bigplayer quotes "Vegas is about quantity, not quality", meaning there are 40-50 playable games within a few miles (my rotation is usually just about 30 (give or take). There is no other place in the world that has that situation. So I tailored my game to that "Quantity" that is the benefit of Las Vegas. And that means short sessions and that means tracking a second table in uncrowded situations and jumping to a better opportunity once before exiting.
Alan,
if a pitboss, surveillance, management or some agency like Griffen or OSN said people are known to count 2 tables, would you then change your stance?
Is there ANY authority or expert on this matter that you would believe?
IS THERE ANYONE YOU WOULD BELIEVE?
If most of the BJ experts, AP's, casino personnel and Darksiders acknowledge it's not only posable but viable.
At what point do you realize(short of a demonstration) that your limited knowledge is far outweighed by the majority and concede?
Don't we already know the answer to this Axel. 18 y.o.'s in a row! Alan will never concede. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Doesn't just playing green action draw attention at these places?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
How about playing green for an extended period of time, waiting for the count to improve?...the pit doesn't check you out?
I only get to out LV for one week a year, but if I go play green chips at at quiet local joint in the middle of the day the pit is all over me...floor people asking me questions, hosts handing me their cards, etc.
If was there regularly they would remember me, especially if I didn't at least take a players card.
I don't know what kind of places you are talking about. I suppose Longhorn (Boulder highway) or Joker's Wild (Henderson) that have $3 games, and don't even always have black chips in the rack, yeah playing green is problematic, but playing any stations properties, boyd properties, Silver7, downtown properties, the M, South Point, No, green to black action is not unusual.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyDoesn't just playing green action draw attention at these places?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
How about playing green for an extended period of time, waiting for the count to improve?...the pit doesn't check you out?
I only get to out LV for one week a year, but if I go play green chips at at quiet local joint in the middle of the day the pit is all over me...floor people asking me questions, hosts handing me their cards, etc.
If was there regularly they would remember me, especially if I didn't at least take a players card.
I never attacked Munchkin.
But kewlj you have been constantly attacking me as you mention the 18 yos constantly. This is nothing less than a swipe at my credibility because you know people in this forum and the WOV don't believe.
Frankly I don't care if they don't believe me. Its not going to affect my life or my livelihood.
You kewlj have made a claim and then you backtracked. Sure I suppose in rare conditions where tables are close together and there are no obstructions you can count two tables. Early in this discussion I said there was a card club in Compton where the tables are bunched together and you probably could do this.
But you specifically said casinos on the west side of the Strip and I've been to four of them and they're too far apart and without xray vision you can't see thru the players.
Yes I will agree that you just might be able to count two tables in Compton. But you're not at the Mirage or Caesars or Bellagio or NYNY or Red Rock or Flamingo or Tropicana where I also posted pictures. Why? It's the placement of the tables and your middle seats just don't give the unobstructed view you think you have.
Axel I am sure you're going to find casino reps who will say there are counters who can count two tables. I wonder if they'll also say that they watch for them and they arrange their tables so it isn't easy to do?
I'll answer the question Axel: of course anyone who says counting two tables is possible is also going to have counter measures in place. So bring on your casino experts because I would love to hear them say they leave their tables close together even when they know it goes on.
That will be the biggest laugh.
IF you really saw 18 y.o's in a row, then how is mentioning it an attack or a swipe at your credibility? :confused: I am not changing anything you said, nor manipulating anything, nor taking blurry pictures. I am just repeating what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
What have I backtracked on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Six of these 7 casinos mentioned I have successful tracked a second table in the last 6 months, and that includes the fact that I didn't play any blackjack for 2 months. Two on this list I tracked a second table in the last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Here's the thing Alan. Two separate claims here, one by you, one by me. So let's take an honest look at them. You claim you saw 18 y.o.'s in a row. At WoV, with hundreds of members, craps player, really smart mathematicians, everyone told you what you were claiming was not possible. You insisted it was and I guess left in a hissy fit over it. And to this day, people bring it up when ever someone says something that is impossible. Michael brought it up in the last few days. What you said is so absurd, that several years later it is still a laughable matter. AND the same thing has played out on this site. No one, thinks you saw what you say you saw and several really smart math guys, Dan included have tried to explain it to you in terms that you could understand, but you refuse to accept reality.
So what we have here is one man insisting he saw something, that no one in the rest of the world believes is possible. So yeah there is a credibility issue. Your claim is not credible.
Now moving on, I mention on this small site with a small limited number of members that I track a second blackjack table, when conditions are right. You challenge that claim. On this site with limited member and even fewer blackjack players, another player (RS_) confirms that he too has done this. On two blackjack sites, Blackjack info, and Blackjack the forum, over half a dozen current players confirm that they have used this technique, including well known author Don Schlesinger, a member of the Blackjack Hall of Fame who stated he has tracked a second table while playing one for 40 years.....let me say that again....40 years! Norm Wattenberger, creator of what I think is the best blackjack software on the market, and by the way, Norm doesn't care for me much, but Norm has confirmed that so many players use this technique that there is a feature on his software products to practice it.
So, we then ask Richard Munchkin, a fulltime AP, with 30 years blackjack experience and he confirms that he has done this for years and he confirms that a number of the very well known professional players that he interviewed for his book, Gambling Wizards, have employed this technique for decades.....decades Alan!
As Axel asked....What more do you want? I wish I had the ability to post at a site like WoV with hundreds of members, and ask if any players, have tracked a second table while playing one, because even though only a fraction play blackjack, there would be a significant number that confirm that they do.
So you have a claim that not a single person in the world believes and every math guy that has heard it disputes.
And I have a claim, that you dispute, but all told a dozen or so blackjack players so far have confirmed they also employ this technique, including several highly regarded expert like Richard Munchkin and Don Schlesinger.
Do you see the difference Alan? My claim has been proven. I guess not to you, because there is nothing you will accept. But to every other reasonably objective person, it has. Your claim, there is not a living soul, that I have heard that thinks you saw what you saw. So don't try to lump them together or connect them in any way. The only similarity is you are on an island in both cases. And that, in itself is part of the problem. You simply refuse to see what everyone else sees. And when that happens multiple times, it is a case of a person not being grounded in reality. They are seeing something different than everyone else. They are in an alternative reality.
Coach belly will say I am being mean and attacking you. I am not. But there is something wrong when one person sees things differently than everyone else.....repeatedly. I know a lot of people sort of give you a pass because you are Alan...quirky, sort of that odd "uncle" figure everyone has. In challenging my claim, you are basically calling me a liar. And now you are calling a dozen or so other players, including RS on this site and experts such as Munchkin and Schlesinger liars. So I am not giving you a pass, because you are quirky Alan Mendelson.
There's only one claim here kewlj. You claimed you can count two tables. Then you backtracked to say if conditions were right.
Prove what you claim.
If there are only two players at the second table of what value is your count?
THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE ALAN! I posted the quote just a couple hours ago....READ IT! I said "I TRY to count a second table when I can".Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
A few hours later on AUGUST 8, when people where asking questions, I qualified what that meant.....WHEN CONDITIONS ALLOWED. That is not backtracking, and for you to suggest it is, is just disingenuous. It's dishonest.
What this says to me, is something Axel alluded to earlier....you just have no idea what you are talking about concerning this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
IF there are only two players at the second table, it means I likely can track that second table (conditions are ripe). And what that means is my EV (expected value) for my time in this casinos just went up 50%. And this will blow your mind even more. My EV just went up 50%, whether I end up jumping to that second table or not. :cool:
He's proven it.
Now, prove you saw the mythical eighteen yo's.
Nice post there, KJ: sums it all up rather nicely.
I can't prove the 18 yos. When I returned to Caesars they said the tape was no longer available.
Kewlj admits he backtracked eight hours later.
Now kewlj explain how you count two tables when the dealers are dealing independent games? Oh you don't have to.... that's when conditions are not "ripe."
Take your own photos.
What on earth are you talking about? :confused: Does anybody have an Alan to English dictionary? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Let's try this: two games are going on. Without being obvious how do you look at the second table when you're supposed to be playing at your own table? Are the dealers and other players waiting for you?
Care to prove your claim? I'll meet you at any casino of your choosing. I'll bring a witness who happens to be a card counter. You bring your own witness. I promise you anonymity. I've risked going to jail to protect the anonymity of others.
Alan, I play 75,000 to 80,000 rounds of blackjack a year. That is more than most professional players, because I am a "grinder" playing mid-level stakes, as opposed to a slash and burn higher stakes player. I am ending my 14th year of professional play. Do the math. That is over a million rounds of blackjack I have played. I DO NOT need to sit there and eyeball every card as it comes out. Nor sit there staring at the dealer waiting my turn to signal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Whether I am counting a second table or only the single table that I am playing, I count using a cancelation method. It is a single glance at the table, literally a fraction of a second....are you hearing me Alan, a fraction of a second, and I have a count.
These are approximations: A blackjack table with 5-7 players averages 45-50 rounds per hour depending on the dealer. That is a round every 72-80 seconds. OVER a minute per round. A table with 3-4 players averages 60-70 rounds per hour. Roughly a round per minute. And 1-2 players can average 100 rounds per hour (or more if heads up). That is a round every 30 second (or less heads up). If there are only 1-2 players at my table, unless the dealer is exceptionally slow, tracking a second table probably is not going to work well. But all other situations, 3 players on up, you are talking a round every minute. Every 60 seconds. It takes me a fraction of a second to pick up the count. There is plenty of time to look around, track a second table, see what the pit folks are doing, watch the game on the TV, notice people milling about me (security conscious).
Edit: Info removed
The ONLY time I might miss a card would be at that second table IF while playing my hand, I have to hit 2-3 times, which would take me 2 seconds and someone at that second table hits breaks and the cards are swept up in that 2 second, I may have missed that one card...that break card at the second table. But even in some of those cases, you can sometimes make an educated guess at the break card you did not see. If the player had a 13 and you missed the card but the dealer is sweeping them all up, it probably was a 10. Could have possible been a 9, but 80% chance it was a 10 value card.
Now I expect you are going to run with, "guessing" and not having an accurate count and all that non-sense. The penalty for missing a card or two or making that kind of educated guess is very small. It is the same as less penetration (more unseen cards). I don't expect you will understand this, but it is 100% true. If you are still on speaking terms with your friend Shackleford (or any other math guy) ask them. I am not going to keep fighting with you just because you don't understand a mathematically proven concept.
I think you know that I am not interested in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
And now, I am going to bed. Good night.
I'm sorry. I didn't realize you didn't have to "eyeball every card as it comes out." I will add psychic powers to your other abilities that include xray vision.
I'm done. You win. I will NEVER question you again.
You didn't realize it because you didn't want to realize or understand it. I have said that I use a cancelation method that takes me a fraction of a second to pick up a count, I am guessing about 10 times now. I have also said this isn't even something you learn or practice. It is just something that happens with experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Alan hasn't heard this because he hasn't wanted to hear this. So I am going to throw it open to others. Is there anyone else who has or hasn't heard me say this multiple times? Because I feel like I am talking to a door here with Mr. Mendelson. :(
And BTW Alan, these things that I am telling you are not unusual for an experienced player. I am nothing special. Most player of my experience do what I do and more (and some have said so). So please don't give us that psychic powers or xray vision shit. This is just a case of you not knowing, so you are talking and making assumptions about something you have no idea about. And that really is not very good journalism.
Alan is of the position that counting two tables is impossible to do, and....if you look at then jump to the other table you will get made by the pit boss. Alan, could you explain to us how you can get made by the pit boss for doing something that is supposed to be impossible to do? Explain it to us like we're third graders.
The biggest laugh is the fact that you think the casinos are willing to put LESS tables in their pit or take away valubale floor space just because a few guys are sucsessfully counting 2 tables. There are some simple ways to cut out a majority of the AP oppertunities (At least they seem simple to me in many cases). The casinos are not willing to risk loseing -EV players and or get out less rounds for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Thank you MrV. I assume you are referring to post #295. I think I will let that post be my final comment on the subject, as it should be clear to anyone with an ounce of objectivity what is going on here. Your conclusion (you have an ounce of objectivity) confirms that for me, so again thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
For the record, I did have to edit out some sensitive and identifying information from two of my posts from last night, but this 'summary post' (#295) remains unchanged except for a spelling edit.
Alan, by posting this question you prove that you know absolutely nothing about card counting. There is really no way for you to rewind this or squirm around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
kJ has cited some of the world’s top players, who support his position. You need to let this go.
But he`s really great at squirmingQuote:
Originally Posted by DankyoneAlan, by posting this question you prove that you know absolutely nothing about card counting. There is really no way for you to rewind this or squirm around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
kJ has cited some of the world’s top players, who support his position. You need to let this go.
Some final notes. I checked Paris, the Flamingo, and Harrah's tables. The Paris and Flamingo tables were roughly the same distances as Boyd and Palace Station, and I had no trouble seeing cards at the next table from the middle seat as long as the seat or two between weren't occupied. At Harrah's, the tables were 15-20 inches further, which actually made a difference, believe it or not. My sub 20/20 eyes could discern pips from paint on the far end of the adjacent table, of course, but I had a hard time actually identifying the particular cards. So for identifying specific cards, that appeared to be my limit. I do not know if lighting played a part, as I did not have a light measuring device with me.
What my brief survey suggested was that identifying specific cards could be done at many properties. Identifying specific cards was difficult at a particular distance for me. That distance was about 135 inches from middle seat to the center of the adjacent table. The cards beyond that midpoint were pips and paint to me. If two specific seats were occupied, there was an obstruction issue.
I haven't played blackjack in 30 years, so these are all just complete novice observations. For those who want to argue that it can't be done based on the blooming buzzing confusion of people moving and obstructions, or because tracking another table would be un-subtle, I don't know enough to have any opinion. For those who think the mental math or visual acuity makes it impossible, well, I do not agree with that. Any partial count, from what I understand, can be a benefit. And my eyes are pretty bad, so younger eyes can probably see the cards well enough.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to give us an honest assessment redietz. Won't matter. Just the same as expert opinions from some of the top blackjack players who have been employing this technique since....well before I was born didn't matter in the slightest. :rolleyes: Sadly, we are into twilight zone territory here where facts and reality don't matter. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I agree with how regnis understand the "theory" and also how Alan deciphers kew's words of wisdom about being less reliable. I also put no credibility whatsoever into any BS a hack like "Richard Munchkin" and his gimpy voice spews on an overly biased marketing show like GWAE.
Here's the real "theory"....and Moses, who seems to actually play instead of pontificating from his armchair, touched on this: counting cards for a gambling "advantage" is really an "on the edge" kind of exercise. You want every accuracy you can possibly get your hands on, and with all the countermeasures casinos have in-place against counters, accuracy means more than a lot.
So, just because some little twit "I'm a be pro" like kew, who lives his entire life on internet forums as an anonymous fool, comes on and proclaims obvious BS like counting two tables and making money for 15 years, it means very little to nothing in the world of common sense. There's a reason kew keeps resorting to these other loud-mouthed "AP's" as his "proof" that his ridiculous claims are true, rather than having the courage and the fortitude to meet up with Alan at any casino to actually prove his baloney. Both Alan and I have been to casinos and tried this silly feat WITH NO PLAYERS AT EITHER TABLE and I even had a casino exec prove to me that his claim is bogus, while on kew's side we have cross-eyed redietz and his set of incomparable hawkeyes. What does that tell you?
Rob the insults aren't necessary so stop.
The point is this. Kewlj is confirming what we've known all along. Any count missing cards is less reliable. It doesn't matter if at one table or two. And with a small edge to begin with, a less reliable count further depletes the edge.
It is now over. If kewlj can win that way, then more power to him. But anyone reading this now knows that that it's not as easy as anyone might think.
Kewlj doesn't have to show me anything. It's all been said right here.
He'll just come back with "you're a shyster Alan, who is picking on me once again with your underhanded ways". waaa...waaa....Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Anybody can do it. Don't take my word for it. Go ahead and test it yourself. You might also measure the actual distances with a tape measure, as I did, and then go to an optometrist and ask if one can discern paint from pips at those distances. Just go to various tables in different casinos late at night, lay a card one table over, then plop into a seat and take a gander.
"And I even had a casino exec prove to me that his claim is bogus" from Argentino is the usual nonsense. No name, no details, no evidence. How exactly did he prove it, my good man? Take your time. Let me guess, the "casino exec" is a Vice President J. Quincy Magoo, over at the Tangiers.
I've said this before -- I don't know if kewlJ is a short order cook, a blackjack player, or an assistant to Heidi Fleiss. But the fact is, you can identify cards one table over at a majority of casinos.
To me it's almost like everything else you do in life. College, buy a house, pick a wife, buy a car, get a job, invest in the stock market. The more research you do the less risk you take on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
The tricky part is that in blackjack you get fired for being too good.:confused:
Wait! KJ can cook?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Hmmm. They used to be called binoculars. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
It's funny how in Singer's eyes, everyone that is a legit player is a fraud, phony or hack. He must tear down any and all legitimate players, to build up the hype that is the rob Singer alternative reality fantasy. Only the great Rob Singer with his alternative math and fantasy tales can win money at the casinos. lol
I don't know details of Munchkin's AP play. He keeps details pretty close to the vest. But I do know he has been working/teaming with one of the best, most successful table game AP's playing today for several years now. I am quite sure he is very successful and not a hack. But Singer has to attempt to tear everyone else down, to build up his own alternative nonsense.
The problem is, kew, that you are no more a "legit player" than any of the other anonymous hacks on here. We know Alan and I are. And the reason you refuse to identify yourself and/or meet any of your critics in a casino to prove yourself is simple: you're afraid of being exposed for the armchair theory-pushing gambler that you, like the majority of the foreigners, minorities and weirdos on WoV, really are. Most of you are afraid of your own shadows.
Redietz, I already tested your nonsensical theory out at the Peppermill with a casino exec and no people anywhere around. With cards on the next table on either side and with me or the exec sitting in any seat, it is impossible to make out even 10% of the cards with a 5-second uninterrupted glance....with NO PEOPLE anywhere. And if you know the Pep, some tables are closer than many casinos.
Your claim of being able to realistically see cards at many casinos is also bogus. You tried it at one.
First of all I am not a player in anyone's class here including Rob or kewlj or even AxelWolf. I never played the stakes these guys play.
Now when it comes to seeing the cards on a second table: of course you'll be able to differentiate paint from pips. You can probably do that from thirty feet away even with cataracts.
But the issue of counting two tables is not as simple as line of sight. Here are the obstacles:
1. Dealers dealing so there is time to see both tables.
2. Other players obstructing the view.
3. Angle of the table permitting or blocking the view.
4. The lip of the table which can obstruct the view.
5. Your height and the angle of view you have.
6. Not being obvious.
My fuzzy, out of focus photos which were not deliberately taken that way, showed the problems with points 3, 4 and 5.
Redietz said he stood at a table for his experiment. Next time take a seat then tell us how many cards you miss.
Incorrect. This projection thing is wicked right. YOU tried it at one. LOL.
I've been checking this every trip since the debate, and I tried it at three places the initial trip. In fact, my carry-on got searched because of a metal tape measure I take with me, and that was my second or third excursion.
You haven't even looked in Las Vegas, have you? You are proclaiming that I'm lying about Las Vegas tables, and kewlJ is lying about Las Vegas tables...and YOU HAVEN'T EVEN CHECKED ANY LAS VEGAS TABLES!
Do you see how ridiculous that is? You are trying to debunk a Las Vegas blackjack player by checking one table in Reno. What the hell? That doesn't even make sense. And you call me, who has been toting a tape measure with me the entire time, and actually posted the measurements here, a liar, when you haven't even been to Las Vegas!
So what were the distances at your Peppermill table? Did you measure them? Were they representative of all tables in the area? Go ahead, post the inches between tables here, as I did. Tick tock.
Why is it you think sitting at one table in Reno debunks kewlJ, who is in Las Vegas? What kind of engineer would draw that conclusion?
Tell you what -- let's have a blackjack table measuring excursion while I'm in LV in a couple of weeks. You and me. We'll walk the strip and measure some tables, and see if we can identify pips from paint. That should settle it, eh? Invite Mr. Mendelson. He can tote the tape measure, and then we can look up a couple of optometrists.