Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
Girl, on a scale of one to ten this insult is at worst a two.
You truly are the gift that keeps on giving, whether you know it or not.
Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
Girl, on a scale of one to ten this insult is at worst a two.
You truly are the gift that keeps on giving, whether you know it or not.
Walters applied statistics from actual games, not "random probability theory" or "random equations", to make his bets on these "non-random events."Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Monet has hit 8 in a row many times. Are you as good as him?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
So you saying that Monet, who has hit 8 in a row many times, is a highly skilled sports bettor? Is he betteer than you?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Ditz picked the Steelers to go to the Super Bowl in Week 13. You know what a great handicapper he is. Knows his stuff for sure, right. Best around.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmHow bout those Steelers? LolQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
The Steelers lost their last five games. Bwahahahahahahaha!!!! You really know how to pick 'em there, redietz.
.
"playyourcardsright" won the WOV NFL picks contest going 67-31 - 68.4% -
I don't recall ever seeing anyone get that high a % with that many picks - just short of 100
I thought it might just be luck so I checked out what he did the previous season - he just missed winning that one with 60.4%
edit - I just looked at the 2022 season and he was only at 50% for that one
so either he improved a lot or he got very, very lucky for 2 straight years
.
Well that's nothing. Redietz finished in 4th place in some contest back in 1984. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
So seriously, that is impressive, especially the 2 year total. Any idea as to who "playyourcardsright" might be? I don't see him posting anything else at WoV. Wondering if he is strictly a sports Capper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
No, you're looking at this the wrong way.
First of all, what he did this year is flat-out awesome, and what he did back-to-back years is spectacular.
But it's not as if each season presents the same problems or challenges or unfolds similarly with the same information leading to the same theories working the same ways.
Each season is a live experiment. This is not (I say this ad nauseum) coin flipping. Seasons are not even close to being identical challenges. So what he accomplished is spectacular, but having a 50% year two seasons ago is not some huge anomaly or evidence that there's been a learning curve of some kind. The lesson for you, as a thinker and writer, is to acknowledge that the idea of some learning curve, while a possibility in some sense, is not necessary at all and may just be you trying to impose an unnecessary interpretation on what you just witnessed.
The more likely explanation is that the seasons were simply different, and what this handicapper did worked much better with the stream of information he got this season as opposed to two seasons ago.
This kind of superficial inconsistency is not uncommon at all, and it has nothing to do with "reversion to the mean" or anything like that. It has to do with the tools and perceptual abilities a handicapper brings to the table meshing or not meshing with the information as a season unfolds. If you had read the old McCusker's Reports from the 80's and 90's ("Tipsters or Gypsters?" published in LV), you would see that this kind of thing happens routinely (well, not a 68% NFL season, but certainly 60-something NFL seasons). And what happened before or what happens next may not bear much resemblance.
It's not reversion to any mean, and it's not necessarily someone "improving" or going superficially brain dead if he crashes and burns next year. It's style and intellectual tools being brought to bear on very different informational streams, since each season is different.
See!! Case in point. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
You just can't even make this shit up. Redietz is the best there ever was in sports betting circles. Anything....anything at all that even hints otherwise, and he goes nuts.
And we know he is the best ever because he has the shack in the middle of nowhere with unpaid taxes to prove it. :cool:
He also has the clippings from publications from 40 years ago to prove it.
I hope he doesn't wake up some day to discover it is 2025 and not the 1980's.
.
he did about 64% for about 200 games (slightly less than 200 but slightly more than 64%)
I asked google what is the chance of flipping heads 64% of the time in 200 flips
the answer came back - 0.00004 or four one hundredths of 1%
so, it is possible it could be done with extreme luck - but not likely - most likely skill
.
I posted up proof I went 11 for 11 in the NFL a while ago. I won 2 NFL contests that had 10's of thousands of entries(I have only ever entered 2 contests), and I have been severely limited, banned, and backed off from many books (I just got the bad word on yet another the other day) I must be super good.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmSo you saying that Monet, who has hit 8 in a row many times, is a highly skilled sports bettor? Is he betteer than you?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Not sure how the forum bullshitter managed to interpret what I just posted as self-aggrandizing but far be it for me to question the reading comprehension of the 'Nova guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJSee!! Case in point. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
You just can't even make this shit up. Redietz is the best there ever was in sports betting circles. Anything....anything at all that even hints otherwise, and he goes nuts.
And we know he is the best ever because he has the shack in the middle of nowhere with unpaid taxes to prove it. :cool:
He also has the clippings from publications from 40 years ago to prove it.
I hope he doesn't wake up some day to discover it is 2025 and not the 1980's.
Not sure how "I went nuts," either, given that I thought I was being congratulatory and respectful. But again, I'm sure the interpretative powers of the Villanova dude far outstrip my own.
I think it was rather connotatively clear that 68% ATS in the NFL for a hundred plays is awesome and not something I have ever done for a season. I managed 66.7% for college and NFL combined once, for a hundred plays, but that's about my high-water mark. I did manage 69% for college-only one year with more than a hundred plays, but I was sub.500 in the NFL, and it was a long time ago.
As for "sports betting circles," I have always stayed in my lane. More than 85% of my betting volume is college football, which I have stated maybe 50 times on this forum.
Methinks the kewlJs are annoyed that I am on to them. KewlJs, you ain't that slick. Everybody is on to your bullshit. Even MrV.
And kewlJs -- you must admit. I might be dated, but that The Riddler guy seems to be pretty good at current stuff. What is it now -- he made money at seven wager recommendations in a row? Or was it eight? And he hasn't lost money at anything. Now there is one current winning dude. And he gave them all away. Boy, he must be rolling in it, to give away eight consecutive winning plays. We should probably invite him to post regularly. You know, he might be single. You could drop him some PMs and find out.
P.S. I think my taxes are late again this year. LOL. Will pay them next week. If the KewlJ's would be good enough to let me know what I owe, I'll get right on it.
You are on to NOTHING, dude, except you have jumped onto the troll bandwagon with Singer, Dawg, Belly. That is some company you are keeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
As for your taxes, it wasn't me that looked up and exposed your tax situation. It was belly. I would ask him if you are unsure what you owe. But let's see, did property value of the shack go up this year? Did you make improvements? add electricity or running water? :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJYou are on to NOTHING, dude, except you have jumped onto the troll bandwagon with Singer, Dawg, Belly. That is some company you are keeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
As for your taxes, it wasn't me that looked up and exposed your tax situation. It was belly. I would ask him if you are unsure what you owe. But let's see, did property value of the shack go up this year? Did you make improvements? add electricity or running water? :cool:
So are you gonna email The Riddler? He's hot -- not just winning money, but hot in general. Kind of a cross between Eastwood and Schwarzenegger, but young enough to really please somebody with a limber jaw.
Did you look to see if there was any indication of how or why he was making certain picks? Was he leaning toward stale lines type of situations? Perhaps he was using unabated and similar types of modern-day technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
Schwarzenegger is 77 years old. Eastwood 94 years old. And fellow homo Redietz thinks they are hot! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
In fairness to Red, he risides in the 1980's....so maybe 40-45 years ago, if that was your type Red.
Meanwhile Billy Walters used the same statistical model year in and year out. He must have just gotten lucky since opinions are far superior to statistics.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzNot sure how the forum bullshitter managed to interpret what I just posted as self-aggrandizing but far be it for me to question the reading comprehension of the 'Nova guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJSee!! Case in point. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
You just can't even make this shit up. Redietz is the best there ever was in sports betting circles. Anything....anything at all that even hints otherwise, and he goes nuts.
And we know he is the best ever because he has the shack in the middle of nowhere with unpaid taxes to prove it. :cool:
He also has the clippings from publications from 40 years ago to prove it.
I hope he doesn't wake up some day to discover it is 2025 and not the 1980's.
Not sure how "I went nuts," either, given that I thought I was being congratulatory and respectful. But again, I'm sure the interpretative powers of the Villanova dude far outstrip my own.
I think it was rather connotatively clear that 68% ATS in the NFL for a hundred plays is awesome and not something I have ever done for a season. I managed 66.7% for college and NFL combined once, for a hundred plays, but that's about my high-water mark. I did manage 69% for college-only one year with more than a hundred plays, but I was sub.500 in the NFL, and it was a long time ago.
As for "sports betting circles," I have always stayed in my lane. More than 85% of my betting volume is college football, which I have stated maybe 50 times on this forum.
Methinks the kewlJs are annoyed that I am on to them. KewlJs, you ain't that slick. Everybody is on to your bullshit. Even MrV.
And kewlJs -- you must admit. I might be dated, but that The Riddler guy seems to be pretty good at current stuff. What is it now -- he made money at seven wager recommendations in a row? Or was it eight? And he hasn't lost money at anything. Now there is one current winning dude. And he gave them all away. Boy, he must be rolling in it, to give away eight consecutive winning plays. We should probably invite him to post regularly. You know, he might be single. You could drop him some PMs and find out.
P.S. I think my taxes are late again this year. LOL. Will pay them next week. If the KewlJ's would be good enough to let me know what I owe, I'll get right on it.
Shackleford makes his superbowl picks....and reveals a handicapping system.
https://wizardofodds.com/newsletter/...super-bowl-59/
Homo say what????Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJSchwarzenegger is 77 years old. Eastwood 94 years old. And fellow homo Redietz thinks they are hot! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
In fairness to Red, he risides in the 1980's....so maybe 40-45 years ago, if that was your type Red.
I recently told my favorite gay joke to a small crowd of people and one lady was Furious. LOL. iI's a great joke if someone is furious
FYI. I recently noticed that Hillary Duff (37) looks pretty good for her age.
You have a degree in English Language and Literature, and this riddler stuff is what you come up with? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
That is Penn State Strong. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJYou have a degree in English Language and Literature, and this riddler stuff is what you come up with? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
That is Penn State Strong. :rolleyes:
Of course, I'm not The Riddler. I don't have his poetic abilities.
The Riddler has
1) Won more money for people on this forum than Kewlj.
2) Demonstrated more gambling expertise on this forum than KewlJ.
3) Told fewer lies than KewlJ.
4) LOL -- Has provided about as much Las Vegas detail as KewlJ (in other words, none).
I don't see how you can argue the fact that The Riddler has contributed WAAAYYY more to this forum than the Kewlj(s). I mean, somebody start up a poll. Who's done more gambling-good for VCT readers, The Riddler or the KewlJ(s)?
You're out of your fucking mind mate on all accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJYou have a degree in English Language and Literature, and this riddler stuff is what you come up with? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
That is Penn State Strong. :rolleyes:
Of course, I'm not The Riddler. I don't have his poetic abilities.
The Riddler has
1) Won more money for people on this forum than Kewlj.
2) Demonstrated more gambling expertise on this forum than KewlJ.
3) Told fewer lies than KewlJ.
4) LOL -- Has provided about as much Las Vegas detail as KewlJ (in other words, none).
I don't see how you can argue the fact that The Riddler has contributed WAAAYYY more to this forum than the Kewlj(s). I mean, somebody start up a poll. Who's done more gambling-good for VCT readers, The Riddler or the KewlJ(s)?
He does? Well, it makes sense now. He must be irate that some under-educated, no-college kid like Axel came to Vegas with $300 bucks in his pocket and by the time that kid is 25 he is making more money via all-around Pro Gambling than Red is even without years of education and focused mastery of only one sport that requires investors and constant self-record touting just to stay afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJYou have a degree in English Language and Literature, and this riddler stuff is what you come up with? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Not exactly. Red was ok with all AP's, you me, mickeycrimm, ect, until we all started making a couple bucks off sports betting. How dare we do anything with sports betting....that is his turf! That is when he turned and started attacking APs. First, Mickeycrimm and him getting Social Security (as if he somehow isn't entitled to it) and then you and I and all this "Leonardo daVinci-AP" shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfHe does? Well, it makes sense now. He must be irate that some under-educated, no-college kid like Axel came to Vegas with $300 bucks in his pocket and by the time that kid is 25 he is making more money via all-around Pro Gambling than Red is even without years of education and focused mastery of only one sport that requires investors and constant self-record touting just to stay afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I have said this before. If Red has made money, made a living involved in sports betting for 40 years...good for him. Weird that he doesn't understand EV and wanting to remain anonymous at the casinos, who by my understanding try to stop sports bettors too. But...good for him.
Some of the contests and stuff he did, seems a little outdated, but that is ok. If he needs to give himself a little pat on the back about it, that is ok too. But stop with the "my way is the only way" and anybody else making a freaking buck off sports betting is somehow moving in on his territory.
Chill RE Dude!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawgUNKewlJ has remained consistent in beingQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJNot exactly. Red was ok with all AP's, you me, mickeycrimm, ect, until we all started making a couple bucks off sports betting. How dare we do anything with sports betting....that is his turf! That is when he turned and started attacking APs. First, Mickeycrimm and him getting Social Security (as if he somehow isn't entitled to it) and then you and I and all this "Leonardo daVinci-AP" shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfHe does? Well, it makes sense now. He must be irate that some under-educated, no-college kid like Axel came to Vegas with $300 bucks in his pocket and by the time that kid is 25 he is making more money via all-around Pro Gambling than Red is even without years of education and focused mastery of only one sport that requires investors and constant self-record touting just to stay afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
I have said this before. If Red has made money, made a living involved in sports betting for 40 years...good for him. Weird that he doesn't understand EV and wanting to remain anonymous at the casinos, who by my understanding try to stop sports bettors too. But...good for him.
Some of the contests and stuff he did, seems a little outdated, but that is ok. If he needs to give himself a little pat on the back about it, that is ok too. But stop with the "my way is the only way" and anybody else making a freaking buck off sports betting is somehow moving in on his territory.
Chill RE Dude!
What I have difficulty with:
1) Folks who, outside of arbitrage, middles-shooting, and bonuses -- which are fine arrows in a "sports betting" quiver -- think they can out-expertise actual sports bettors, who generally do NOT venture much outside their sport of expertise. Have you read none of the classic sports betting books from Huntington Press? The biographies? There are really no jacks-of-all-trades in "sports betting." The funny thing about this is that these two are arguing that I'm dated, while the idea that one person can tackle multiple sports is actually the dated theme, straight out of the 70's and 80's.
2) Folks who think being able to anticipate line moves in different sports is something they can do without intimately knowing either the sports or the public betting the sports.
3) Folks who tell stories to themselves without third-party verification. This is the primary difference between handicappers and the APs claiming to be handicappers. The handicappers' ATS records, including middles-shooting and arbitrage, can be tracked, monitored, and verified via monitoring records, client records, and contest records. The "APs" claims to winning can be verified because they say so. These are two entirely different ways of establishing reality. You can either be publicly tracked, like say, oh, The Riddler, or you can be a heroic winner because you say so, like Axelwolf or kewlJ.
4) Do you geniuses actually think, coming from AP-land, that you have access to more wisdom, more expertise, and more angles than people like Phil Ivey or Bob Dancer, who have crashed and burned sports betting? Is that your argument? That you are better bettors than Ungar or Ivey or Dancer? That you bring more to the table than these people? More expertise, more brainpower, more contacts? Pardon the guffaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfHe does? Well, it makes sense now. He must be irate that some under-educated, no-college kid like Axel came to Vegas with $300 bucks in his pocket and by the time that kid is 25 he is making more money via all-around Pro Gambling than Red is even without years of education and focused mastery of only one sport that requires investors and constant self-record touting just to stay afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJYou have a degree in English Language and Literature, and this riddler stuff is what you come up with? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
KewlJ got the degree wrong, as per usual. One thing Axelwolf and KewlJ have in common -- they don't double-check things to get details correct before they commit words to the screen.
I imagine that kind of sloppy accounting and sloppy memory comes in useful as an "AP."
And yes, MDawg, quote me on that.
Ok, I gotta make this quick, because I am heading out to to play. I got the information about Red's degree from a page that he set up on a website. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfHe does? Well, it makes sense now. He must be irate that some under-educated, no-college kid like Axel came to Vegas with $300 bucks in his pocket and by the time that kid is 25 he is making more money via all-around Pro Gambling than Red is even without years of education and focused mastery of only one sport that requires investors and constant self-record touting just to stay afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
KewlJ got the degree wrong, as per usual. One thing Axelwolf and KewlJ have in common -- they don't double-check things to get details correct before they commit words to the screen.
I imagine that kind of sloppy accounting and sloppy memory comes in useful as an "AP."
The post above that is just more of the same. Red feeling insecure and I guess threatened by anyone doing anything with sports betting. get over it man...really!
I didn't commit to anything here, I asked if it were true. Are you college-educated in any area? If so, see above.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfHe does? Well, it makes sense now. He must be irate that some under-educated, no-college kid like Axel came to Vegas with $300 bucks in his pocket and by the time that kid is 25 he is making more money via all-around Pro Gambling than Red is even without years of education and focused mastery of only one sport that requires investors and constant self-record touting just to stay afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
KewlJ got the degree wrong, as per usual. One thing Axelwolf and KewlJ have in common -- they don't double-check things to get details correct before they commit words to the screen.
I imagine that kind of sloppy accounting and sloppy memory comes in useful as an "AP."
And yes, MDawg, quote me on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
That’s 4 1/1000ths of 1%. Or 1 in 25,000 chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
Shack has beat the Super Bowl 7. Years. In. A. Row. Phenomenal! Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJYou are on to NOTHING, dude, except you have jumped onto the troll bandwagon with Singer, Dawg, Belly. That is some company you are keeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
As for your taxes, it wasn't me that looked up and exposed your tax situation. It was belly. I would ask him if you are unsure what you owe. But let's see, did property value of the shack go up this year? Did you make improvements? add electricity or running water? :cool:
So are you gonna email The Riddler? He's hot -- not just winning money, but hot in general. Kind of a cross between Eastwood and Schwarzenegger, but young enough to really please somebody with a limber jaw.
One thing about redietz is he don't double-check things to get details correct before he commits words to the screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJNot exactly. Red was ok with all AP's, you me, mickeycrimm, ect, until we all started making a couple bucks off sports betting. How dare we do anything with sports betting....that is his turf! That is when he turned and started attacking APs. First, Mickeycrimm and him getting Social Security (as if he somehow isn't entitled to it) and then you and I and all this "Leonardo daVinci-AP" shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
I have said this before. If Red has made money, made a living involved in sports betting for 40 years...good for him. Weird that he doesn't understand EV and wanting to remain anonymous at the casinos, who by my understanding try to stop sports bettors too. But...good for him.
Some of the contests and stuff he did, seems a little outdated, but that is ok. If he needs to give himself a little pat on the back about it, that is ok too. But stop with the "my way is the only way" and anybody else making a freaking buck off sports betting is somehow moving in on his territory.
Chill RE Dude!
What I have difficulty with:
1) Folks who, outside of arbitrage, middles-shooting, and bonuses -- which are fine arrows in a "sports betting" quiver -- think they can out-expertise actual sports bettors, who generally do NOT venture much outside their sport of expertise. Have you read none of the classic sports betting books from Huntington Press? The biographies? There are really no jacks-of-all-trades in "sports betting." The funny thing about this is that these two are arguing that I'm dated, while the idea that one person can tackle multiple sports is actually the dated theme, straight out of the 70's and 80's.
2) Folks who think being able to anticipate line moves in different sports is something they can do without intimately knowing either the sports or the public betting the sports.
3) Folks who tell stories to themselves without third-party verification. This is the primary difference between handicappers and the APs claiming to be handicappers. The handicappers' ATS records, including middles-shooting and arbitrage, can be tracked, monitored, and verified via monitoring records, client records, and contest records. The "APs" claims to winning can be verified because they say so. These are two entirely different ways of establishing reality. You can either be publicly tracked, like say, oh, The Riddler, or you can be a heroic winner because you say so, like Axelwolf or kewlJ.
4) Do you geniuses actually think, coming from AP-land, that you have access to more wisdom, more expertise, and more angles than people like Phil Ivey or Bob Dancer, who have crashed and burned sports betting? Is that your argument? That you are better bettors than Ungar or Ivey or Dancer? That you bring more to the table than these people? More expertise, more brainpower, more contacts? Pardon the guffaws.
Unger is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He could beat tournament poker and gin rummy. But he was a life long loser to live poker, horse racing, blackjack and sports betting. In the NFL he bet every game every week. A bookie's dream.
Ivey is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He's a compulsive gambler that loses to everything but poker. He generally couldn't make it past the craps table on his way from the poker room. He would dump his poker winnings and more. He was not an expert in edge sorting. He was convinced by those in the know to use a professional edge sorter.
I don't know that Bob Dancer quit sports betting altogether. I know that he got caught in the losing streak on safeties in the Super Bowl with Shack and that soured him on somethings. But his long running partner, Richard Munchkin, recently moved into sports betting and as I've heard he is doing pretty good with it.
One thing about redietz is he don't double-check things to get details correct before he commits words to the screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJNot exactly. Red was ok with all AP's, you me, mickeycrimm, ect, until we all started making a couple bucks off sports betting. How dare we do anything with sports betting....that is his turf! That is when he turned and started attacking APs. First, Mickeycrimm and him getting Social Security (as if he somehow isn't entitled to it) and then you and I and all this "Leonardo daVinci-AP" shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
I have said this before. If Red has made money, made a living involved in sports betting for 40 years...good for him. Weird that he doesn't understand EV and wanting to remain anonymous at the casinos, who by my understanding try to stop sports bettors too. But...good for him.
Some of the contests and stuff he did, seems a little outdated, but that is ok. If he needs to give himself a little pat on the back about it, that is ok too. But stop with the "my way is the only way" and anybody else making a freaking buck off sports betting is somehow moving in on his territory.
Chill RE Dude!
What I have difficulty with:
1) Folks who, outside of arbitrage, middles-shooting, and bonuses -- which are fine arrows in a "sports betting" quiver -- think they can out-expertise actual sports bettors, who generally do NOT venture much outside their sport of expertise. Have you read none of the classic sports betting books from Huntington Press? The biographies? There are really no jacks-of-all-trades in "sports betting." The funny thing about this is that these two are arguing that I'm dated, while the idea that one person can tackle multiple sports is actually the dated theme, straight out of the 70's and 80's.
2) Folks who think being able to anticipate line moves in different sports is something they can do without intimately knowing either the sports or the public betting the sports.
3) Folks who tell stories to themselves without third-party verification. This is the primary difference between handicappers and the APs claiming to be handicappers. The handicappers' ATS records, including middles-shooting and arbitrage, can be tracked, monitored, and verified via monitoring records, client records, and contest records. The "APs" claims to winning can be verified because they say so. These are two entirely different ways of establishing reality. You can either be publicly tracked, like say, oh, The Riddler, or you can be a heroic winner because you say so, like Axelwolf or kewlJ.
4) Do you geniuses actually think, coming from AP-land, that you have access to more wisdom, more expertise, and more angles than people like Phil Ivey or Bob Dancer, who have crashed and burned sports betting? Is that your argument? That you are better bettors than Ungar or Ivey or Dancer? That you bring more to the table than these people? More expertise, more brainpower, more contacts? Pardon the guffaws.
Unger is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He was a compulsive gambler. He could beat tournament poker and gin rummy. Then he would dump the money to live poker, horse racing, blackjack and sports betting. In the NFL he bet every game every week. A bookie's dream. He could never keep a bankroll.
Ivey is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He's a compulsive gambler that loses to everything but poker. He generally couldn't make it past the craps table on his way from the poker room. He was a big time sports betting loser too. He would dump his poker winnings and more. He was not an expert in edge sorting. He was convinced by those in the know to use a professional edge sorter.
I don't know that Bob Dancer quit sports betting altogether. I know that he got caught in the losing streak on safeties in the Super Bowl with Shack and that soured him on some things. But his long running partner, Richard Munchkin, recently moved into sports betting and as I've heard he is doing pretty good with it.
Redietz doesn't know this but years ago Dancer replaced Frank Kneeland on GWAE because Kneeland was expert only in video poker. Dancer wanted people that were experts on multiple games. Much to redietz' chagrin, Munchkin is expert on multiple games.
everybody used the same lines which were posted on Thursdays from vegasinsider.com -Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfDid you look to see if there was any indication of how or why he was making certain picks? Was he leaning toward stale lines type of situations? Perhaps he was using unabated and similar types of modern-day technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
so they could have been stale - the lines he bet into could have been better or worse for him than the lines just before game time
he could have chosen to bet only on the better lines - but I doubt that would be a winning strategy - all of the other contestants could have done that too
as to whether or not he was using some tout or service - idk - anyway - I doubt that any tout service would realize the % that he got
.
Another thing that is so telling is how he mocks the idea of "weak lines". An inefficient market. However you wish to look at it.
Yet this is a necessity for both handicappers and APs. That whole youtube clip in Colorado was based on this.
Then you have bonuses of various sorts that can be used but everything else depends on an inefficient market. Finding those inefficiencies is all that APs do sans bonuses.
So without those "weak lines" APs don't fuck with it.
Likewise ATS means relatively little in and of itself because we don't know how effecient that spread was. Ok, there is some standard set of lines but so? You need against what spread. Beating Pinnacle for 65% and get back to me and even then their spread is also shaded by the prices on both side. So this is where stats come into play yet again go give you the actual values and the prices being so different on different sides means their spread is... not what it may seem like.
FYI it was Fankie who started the show and brought on Dancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmOne thing about redietz is he don't double-check things to get details correct before he commits words to the screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
What I have difficulty with:
1) Folks who, outside of arbitrage, middles-shooting, and bonuses -- which are fine arrows in a "sports betting" quiver -- think they can out-expertise actual sports bettors, who generally do NOT venture much outside their sport of expertise. Have you read none of the classic sports betting books from Huntington Press? The biographies? There are really no jacks-of-all-trades in "sports betting." The funny thing about this is that these two are arguing that I'm dated, while the idea that one person can tackle multiple sports is actually the dated theme, straight out of the 70's and 80's.
2) Folks who think being able to anticipate line moves in different sports is something they can do without intimately knowing either the sports or the public betting the sports.
3) Folks who tell stories to themselves without third-party verification. This is the primary difference between handicappers and the APs claiming to be handicappers. The handicappers' ATS records, including middles-shooting and arbitrage, can be tracked, monitored, and verified via monitoring records, client records, and contest records. The "APs" claims to winning can be verified because they say so. These are two entirely different ways of establishing reality. You can either be publicly tracked, like say, oh, The Riddler, or you can be a heroic winner because you say so, like Axelwolf or kewlJ.
4) Do you geniuses actually think, coming from AP-land, that you have access to more wisdom, more expertise, and more angles than people like Phil Ivey or Bob Dancer, who have crashed and burned sports betting? Is that your argument? That you are better bettors than Ungar or Ivey or Dancer? That you bring more to the table than these people? More expertise, more brainpower, more contacts? Pardon the guffaws.
Unger is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He was a compulsive gambler. He could beat tournament poker and gin rummy. Then he would dump the money to live poker, horse racing, blackjack and sports betting. In the NFL he bet every game every week. A bookie's dream. He could never keep a bankroll.
Ivey is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He's a compulsive gambler that loses to everything but poker. He generally couldn't make it past the craps table on his way from the poker room. He was a big time sports betting loser too. He would dump his poker winnings and more. He was not an expert in edge sorting. He was convinced by those in the know to use a professional edge sorter.
I don't know that Bob Dancer quit sports betting altogether. I know that he got caught in the losing streak on safeties in the Super Bowl with Shack and that soured him on some things. But his long running partner, Richard Munchkin, recently moved into sports betting and as I've heard he is doing pretty good with it.
Redietz doesn't know this but years ago Dancer replaced Frank Kneeland on GWAE because Kneeland was expert only in video poker. Dancer wanted people that were experts on multiple games. Much to redietz' chagrin, Munchkin is expert on multiple games.
Take this for what it's worth since it is hearsay.
Several of Fanky's confidants were very angry with Bob and they claimed Bob pushed Franki out and took over the show.
I voted for Frank as the AP Most Likely to Retweet Neil deGrasse Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
No one smart is using tout services. One would have to go back and look at all his contest picks over all the seasons he entered and see what his overall percentage is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smokeeverybody used the same lines which were posted on Thursdays from vegasinsider.com -Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfDid you look to see if there was any indication of how or why he was making certain picks? Was he leaning toward stale lines type of situations? Perhaps he was using unabated and similar types of modern-day technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke
so they could have been stale - the lines he bet into could have been better or worse for him than the lines just before game time
he could have chosen to bet only on the better lines - but I doubt that would be a winning strategy - all of the other contestants could have done that too
as to whether or not he was using some tout or service - idk - anyway - I doubt that any tout service would realize the % that he got
.
What's hilarious is that he preaches about some guy in some court saying that Parlays are for suckers.
In his next sentence he tells everyone how he beat some Teaser or Future and Hedged the bet.
LOL... Parlays are the Devil.
If you want to make real money you need to bet Teasers, Futures and get into devaluing your bets with Hedging so you can lock up some cash!
Or you have two other options to beat the book.
1. You can have some Slant Eyed Slope who never misses on Horse or Football Picks
2. Start up some Integrity Touting Service and Rape the Suckers lol.
--- I got a two teamer today. One Leg already in...
Panthers -2.5
Flames Puck Line
Yes, I know. I talked to Frank over the phone about it when it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfFYI it was Fankie who started the show and brought on Dancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmOne thing about redietz is he don't double-check things to get details correct before he commits words to the screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Unger is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He was a compulsive gambler. He could beat tournament poker and gin rummy. Then he would dump the money to live poker, horse racing, blackjack and sports betting. In the NFL he bet every game every week. A bookie's dream. He could never keep a bankroll.
Ivey is a piss poor example of expertise and brainpower. He's a compulsive gambler that loses to everything but poker. He generally couldn't make it past the craps table on his way from the poker room. He was a big time sports betting loser too. He would dump his poker winnings and more. He was not an expert in edge sorting. He was convinced by those in the know to use a professional edge sorter.
I don't know that Bob Dancer quit sports betting altogether. I know that he got caught in the losing streak on safeties in the Super Bowl with Shack and that soured him on some things. But his long running partner, Richard Munchkin, recently moved into sports betting and as I've heard he is doing pretty good with it.
Redietz doesn't know this but years ago Dancer replaced Frank Kneeland on GWAE because Kneeland was expert only in video poker. Dancer wanted people that were experts on multiple games. Much to redietz' chagrin, Munchkin is expert on multiple games.
Take this for what it's worth since it is hearsay.
Several of Fanky's confidants were very angry with Bob and they claimed Bob pushed Franki out and took over the show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmYes, I know. I talked to Frank over the phone about it when it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfFYI it was Fankie who started the show and brought on Dancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Take this for what it's worth since it is hearsay.
Several of Fanky's confidants were very angry with Bob and they claimed Bob pushed Franki out and took over the show.
Here's a thought, mickey. Actually read what Dancer has written in his own blog. Rather than say "I heard."
Unger dumped money on live poker? Not if he wasn't gooned up to the gills. Where did you "hear" that? You must have a private library with that info. I've read most of what has been written (not on forums) vis-a-vis Unger. And I know someone who came up with him in the Catskills when they were both playing cards with the wealthy while working at the resorts. I sat next to the guy and his wife in the Imperial Palace sports book on Sundays for years. They had a booth. I was at the table immediately above and adjacent to them. The wife was wealthy.
But I'm sure Mickey knows better, having "heard" it.
Anything else you "hear," mickey? You sure you're not "hearing things?"
Munchkin knows very well how I feel about "Leonardo Da AP" stuff. His raison d'etre seems to be to speculate if he thinks he has an edge that has not been historically established. My raison d'etre is to wager lunch money or less until something has been established, with an eye to understanding that sports betting is transience-in-motion and anything "established" today could be completely ephemeral. I understand Munchkin's perspective in that his family/"family" has had money and he's always had a hefty safety net. My better half was in the same situation, if you get my drift.
But being from a working class family and never having had financial back-up myself, I have always taken a "bet what you know you can win at" approach. I'm not into labeling "my opinion" as "EV." Doing so is arrogant beyond belief. And completely subjective. And reeks of imprecision, which is the opposite of what using a term like "EV" should be.
Unger married a wealthy wife? That is surprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmYes, I know. I talked to Frank over the phone about it when it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Here's a thought, mickey. Actually read what Dancer has written in his own blog. Rather than say "I heard."
Unger dumped money on live poker? Not if he wasn't gooned up to the gills. Where did you "hear" that? You must have a private library with that info. I've read most of what has been written (not on forums) vis-a-vis Unger. And I know someone who came up with him in the Catskills when they were both playing cards with the wealthy while working at the resorts. I sat next to the guy and his wife in the Imperial Palace sports book on Sundays for years. They had a booth. I was at the table immediately above and adjacent to them. The wife was wealthy.
But I'm sure Mickey knows better, having "heard" it.
Anything else you "hear," mickey? You sure you're not "hearing things?"
Munchkin knows very well how I feel about "Leonardo Da AP" stuff. His raison d'etre seems to be to speculate if he thinks he has an edge that has not been historically established. My raison d'etre is to wager lunch money or less until something has been established, with an eye to understanding that sports betting is transience-in-motion and anything "established" today could be completely ephemeral. I understand Munchkin's perspective in that his family/"family" has had money and he's always had a hefty safety net. My better half was in the same situation, if you get my drift.
But being from a working class family and never having had financial back-up myself, I have always taken a "bet what you know you can win at" approach. I'm not into labeling "my opinion" as "EV." Doing so is arrogant beyond belief. And completely subjective. And reeks of imprecision, which is the opposite of what using a term like "EV" should be.
If you are still going on how using EV is "completely subjective" then you really really really really have not been paying attention at all. Whether reading the definition of EV or being aware of modern sports betting.
It is cool you bet with your gut and all but using EV you could have been living in a much nicer house given your dedication to sports betting.
It is about getting the money, brother. It is that simple. To you it is some romantic thing. Lots of these guys aren't jacking off to football news while in season. It is just a huge waste of time. Better to learn other thing.
Leonardo Da Vinci was always trying new things. Thinking about them. Thats how the mindset of a real and successful AP works, brother. Try reading about him instead of mocking him.
Is this question one of your funny jokes, or are you just a dumbass like everyone says you are?Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
i.e. I HAVE NO +EV.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I'm not a handicrapper at all, but his method seems low IQ. He's basically just looking at net points. 10 of the 13 other playoff teams outperformed Kansas City in net points.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
It's like he's not even attempting a serious analysis.
He's not attempting a serious analysis. It's a simple handicapping system. You know, like just counting 5's at blackjack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don PerignomI'm not a handicrapper at all, but his method seems low IQ. He's basically just looking at net points. 10 of the 13 other playoff teams outperformed Kansas City in net points.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
It's like he's not even attempting a serious analysis.
I read Dancer's blog every week. Do you? There's a paywall there these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmYes, I know. I talked to Frank over the phone about it when it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Here's a thought, mickey. Actually read what Dancer has written in his own blog. Rather than say "I heard."
Unger dumped money on live poker? Not if he wasn't gooned up to the gills. Where did you "hear" that? You must have a private library with that info. I've read most of what has been written (not on forums) vis-a-vis Unger. And I know someone who came up with him in the Catskills when they were both playing cards with the wealthy while working at the resorts. I sat next to the guy and his wife in the Imperial Palace sports book on Sundays for years. They had a booth. I was at the table immediately above and adjacent to them. The wife was wealthy.
But I'm sure Mickey knows better, having "heard" it.
Anything else you "hear," mickey? You sure you're not "hearing things?"
Munchkin knows very well how I feel about "Leonardo Da AP" stuff. His raison d'etre seems to be to speculate if he thinks he has an edge that has not been historically established. My raison d'etre is to wager lunch money or less until something has been established, with an eye to understanding that sports betting is transience-in-motion and anything "established" today could be completely ephemeral. I understand Munchkin's perspective in that his family/"family" has had money and he's always had a hefty safety net. My better half was in the same situation, if you get my drift.
But being from a working class family and never having had financial back-up myself, I have always taken a "bet what you know you can win at" approach. I'm not into labeling "my opinion" as "EV." Doing so is arrogant beyond belief. And completely subjective. And reeks of imprecision, which is the opposite of what using a term like "EV" should be.
As for Unger. You really know how to step in it, dude. The guy that wrote the book on Unger, Nolan Dalla, well, ahem, ahem, ahem, I talked to him frequently. We were very friendly. We played in the same poker games. I could have dropped his name a long time ago but I'm not like you. I don't pulll that worthless name dropping shit.
Very common knowledge that Unger wasn't a great cash game player. Archie Karras chopped Unger up at 7 Stud until Unger was broke. When Unger sat down in a short handed game the table filled up. Ask Billy Baxter. Do you really think Unger dried out to play cash games? LOL! Unger was good at tournament poker and gin rummy. That was it. He was a sucker at every thing else.
You don't know the difference between tournament and cash poker. It's easy to tell. Tournament poker is about maneuvering under pressure. A set amount of chips against rising blinds. Pressure to make a move, all that type of stuff. Unger excelled at it, but not in cash games. In the cash games as they are structured in Las Vegas there's no pressure. The blinds are so low you can sit there forever, not play anything, and not lose that much.
Ditz, when you find yourself in a hole....quit digging.
I don't get the point of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I don't play blackjack either, but how many smart players use the ace/5 count? Afaik, they use hi/lo because it's substantially more effective for only a little extra effort.
Sports also carries a higher house edge than bj, so the implication is you may need to work a little harder to beat it.
I wonder if redietz' fixation on the term EV has to do with his being a tout more than a bettor.
I guess if I were trying to get people to give me money by telling them the "EV" of my prospective wagers I might feel self-conscious about that.
But most people aren't touts and just use terms like EV for the sake of communication. ("I put the EV at about...", "I think the EV is higher in this game than that game", etc.)
That would also explain his obsession with anonymity and status. Most people on forums don't care about people knowing their names and knowing who they know because their lives don't center around impressing people, because they don't need anything from people.
There are specific reasons I asked to verification. I don't need to explain myself to a dunce.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs this question one of your funny jokes, or are you just a dumbass like everyone says you are?Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
With weak enough lines and a good social network you don't necessarily have to be that sophisticated in your methodology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don PerignomI'm not a handicrapper at all, but his method seems low IQ. He's basically just looking at net points. 10 of the 13 other playoff teams outperformed Kansas City in net points.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
It's like he's not even attempting a serious analysis.
We have someone else who has been paying attention, you are getting closer.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Well, I'll tell you where I "heard" it. At the Horseshoe. It was a hangout of mine from 1992 until about 2007. I was at the WSOP in 92. It's what gave me the gambling bug. I was originally a poker player until I discovered machines in 1996. But I still continued to play poker after that. I was at every WSOP until I think about 2006 when it moved to the Rio. And I wasn't there just for the few days of the final event. I was there for 5 or six weeks from the first tournament to the last. I played the 10-20, 15-30 and 20-40 holdem cash games. There were also advantage slots all over downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I hob nobbed with the famous players of the day. Played poker with Puggy Pearson and Barbara Enright, to name a few. Yes, there were a lot of Stu Unger stories going around. But they were stories by people that knew him.
It was the poker world, ditz. I was in it....and you weren't.
I seen some things too. Like the time Johnny Chan got a big cup of coke dumped on his head. Barbara Enright making the final table of the main event. Annie duke winning a tournament after a pussy whooped guy let her off the hook in a hand she should have went broke in. And I was there in 2003 when Moneymaker won the main event and changed poker forever.
LOL. You should have introduced yourself. I watched the final table of one WSOP while it was held in the back of Binion's. Couldn't really tell what was going on but watched it anyway. Also watched a bit of the second Ungar title head-to-head held outside of Binion's in the tent. By that time, Ungar's nose was falling off, which is why he wore the shades, really, but everyone knew who he was.
I have not read one single account anywhere that even suggested Ungar lost overall playing poker. Considering how little money was involved and how few tournaments there were in those days, I sincerely doubt that Ungar lost money playing live poker. He lost a fortune betting sports, which everyone knew and even he admitted, and which has been written about in multiple books.
McManus, the author of Positively Fifth Street and a final table participant with Ungar the year he wrote it, did not like Ungar at all. Thought he was a bad look for poker and resembled (if I remember the quote correctly) "an emaciated praying mantis in his chair." He did not mean that as a compliment. But McManus never suggested that Ungar lost money playing live games. In fact, he passed along some stories of how lethal Ungar's eyesight was, pulling a KewlJ in a way. Ungar attended to action at adjacent tables to such a degree that some pros would occasionally ask him, from a table away, if they had made the right move in a cash game.
I likely spent more time in Binion's than you did, mickey, and knew the folks staying there, because many people staying there were camped at the behest of families scattered around the country so they could make the appropriate lay-offs of sports betting money when requested. That's why Binion's had, at the time, arguably the highest sports betting volume in the city until the Mirage opened. Their sports betting limits were as high as any book, at least as posted. And they undoubtedly had higher "un-posted" arrangements with some people.
Redietz went from telling us how he barely fucks with poker and gets off playing $100 daily tournaments at the local casino to being some knowledgeable about cash games of Unger's day. I'll go by Mickey's accounts over Redietz's 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Redietz starting off his posts with LOL. You know thats when he is really feeling threatened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionRedietz went from telling us how he barely fucks with poker and gets off playing $100 daily tournaments at the local casino to being some knowledgeable about cash games of Unger's day. I'll go by Mickey's accounts over Redietz's 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Redietz starting off his posts with LOL. You know thats when he is really feeling threatened.
Indubitably (as opposed to LOL).
1) I have not read (as opposed to "heard") a single account of Ungar getting his ass kicked playing live cash poker. I could, of course, be wrong. I'm sure there may have been a slope -- in other words, the worse he got at the end vis-a-vis coke and everything else, he may have been losing the last year or two of his life, but I haven't read any accounts of him taking a poker beating. I'm trying to remember if I had stayed at the particular place he was found dead. I don't think so (although I may have stayed next door). It was raggedy.
2) I'm sure Todd has a better feel for this topic than either myself or mickey, although I did spend more time in Binion's than anyone on this forum -- or WoV -- or (name a forum). So hopefully Todd chimes in.
3) I guess folks could peek at Wikipedia or something and try to discern who's likely more on top of this.
4) I find it telling that this anonymous account poster thinks mickey's stories somehow are more accurate than mine. I spent 90-100 days in LV for 20+ years. I probably spent a third of that time staying downtown. I certainly spent more time in Binion's than mickey. And...drum roll...I wasn't drinking heavily.
I commend account for his consistent and stellar judgement.
It cracks me up how several times a week, Red goes to his '90-100 days a year in Vegas for 20+ years' line, as if he is saying how dare you not accept something I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Well I have spent 340-350+ days a year in Vegas for 16 years now. (allowing for a few weeks travel each year). Someone like Axel wolf spends 330+ days a year for 30+ years. Others probably longer. :rolleyes:
There are 10's of thousands of people that spend 90-100 days in Vegas each year. We call them "snowbirds", escaping harsh winters somewhere. Just saying. :cool:
I have been in Vegas since 1990 I got here before I was legally old enough to gamble. I played my first +Ev promo when I was 19 years old. I went full-time AP when I was around 22-23 years old. I would guess I have spent 85% of my time in Vagas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJIt cracks me up how several times a week, Red goes to his '90-100 days a year in Vegas for 20+ years' line, as if he is saying how dare you not accept something I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Well I have spent 340-350+ days a year in Vegas for 16 years now. (allowing for a few weeks travel each year). Someone like Axel wolf spends 330+ days a year for 30+ years. Others probably longer. :rolleyes:
There are 10's of thousands of people that spend 90-100 days in Vegas each year. We call them "snowbirds", escaping harsh winters somewhere. Just saying. :cool:
I spent college football seasons in Las Vegas. If that's "snowbirding," I suggest you buy better calendars.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJIt cracks me up how several times a week, Red goes to his '90-100 days a year in Vegas for 20+ years' line, as if he is saying how dare you not accept something I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Well I have spent 340-350+ days a year in Vegas for 16 years now. (allowing for a few weeks travel each year). Someone like Axel wolf spends 330+ days a year for 30+ years. Others probably longer. :rolleyes:
There are 10's of thousands of people that spend 90-100 days in Vegas each year. We call them "snowbirds", escaping harsh winters somewhere. Just saying. :cool:
But more pertinent, I spent more time in Binions than anyone on this forum, and probably on the WoV forum. Now, personally, I think Munchkin knew his way around Binion's better than me, but I don't see him on this forum (unless account wants to step up and claim he's Munchkin).
By the way, I wanted to underline something the inestimable account had to say. He suggested that my poor self, having almost never played in a poker tournament costing more than $100, therefore shouldn't be rendering opinions different from his. Now, last I checked, Negreanu said there were as many lifetime tournament overall-money winners as "birds with teeth." So it would seem to me that no self-respecting "AP" should be playing tournament poker and should especially not be playing for any serious amounts. Thus, I am hard pressed to understand how account can be bragging so much on playing negative expectation stuff. Unless...wait for it...he's better than Negreanu. Of course he is -- that's the ticket.
That is so funny...Ozzy must be spinning in his grave laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Is English your second language, or are you just an ignorant dumbass like everybody says you are?
Did I say YOU were a snowbird? Or did I compare you spending 3 months a year in Vegas to that of our snowbirds?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Todd came up in poker on the internet. He has never been much of a live player. Mickey was actually there. Mickey would know more than any of us. Correct me if I am wrong, Todd. Also this stuff occurred before Todd found internet poker anyway. Get a grip with reality man.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionRedietz went from telling us how he barely fucks with poker and gets off playing $100 daily tournaments at the local casino to being some knowledgeable about cash games of Unger's day. I'll go by Mickey's accounts over Redietz's 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Redietz starting off his posts with LOL. You know thats when he is really feeling threatened.
Indubitably (as opposed to LOL).
1) I have not read (as opposed to "heard") a single account of Ungar getting his ass kicked playing live cash poker. I could, of course, be wrong. I'm sure there may have been a slope -- in other words, the worse he got at the end vis-a-vis coke and everything else, he may have been losing the last year or two of his life, but I haven't read any accounts of him taking a poker beating. I'm trying to remember if I had stayed at the particular place he was found dead. I don't think so (although I may have stayed next door). It was raggedy.
2) I'm sure Todd has a better feel for this topic than either myself or mickey, although I did spend more time in Binion's than anyone on this forum -- or WoV -- or (name a forum). So hopefully Todd chimes in.
3) I guess folks could peek at Wikipedia or something and try to discern who's likely more on top of this.
4) I find it telling that this anonymous account poster thinks mickey's stories somehow are more accurate than mine. I spent 90-100 days in LV for 20+ years. I probably spent a third of that time staying downtown. I certainly spent more time in Binion's than mickey. And...drum roll...I wasn't drinking heavily.
I commend account for his consistent and stellar judgement.
I met Mickey and talked to him. We exchanged our Johnny Chan stories. He told me the drink pouring story after I told him something. You are some goofball who reneges on all sorts of things. One of them going on a radio show. You stiff some orphanage of $100 charity. (Gee you must be broke) Why would it make any sense for me to believe you more than him? You've said before you know almost nothing about the poker world.
You're such a goof. I'm sure in circles of non-gamblers or certain types of gamblers people could listen to you and think 'oh man that guy was cool'. Even I would find many of your stories interesting. Yet for actual factual anything you've fell on your face repeatedly.
Funnily enough you almost never tell stories. ALl you do it try to brag because in the end you are more tout than gambler.
My impression of Mickey's stories involving Unger seem more on target with what I understood the situation to be but I'm not going to make any claims one way or another because I really don't know.
Bro you know nothing about the poker world. Who cares what Negreanu said at one point. Nice guy and all but geez you're losing it. Something I said must have hit way to close to home.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Negreanu. Birds with teeth? huh. lol. It took me a bit. I remember kid poker from RGP. I used to interact with him on usenet. See, here I can do the same thing.
Thats all you can do is pull up little quotes from people you've read because you know so little.
I can promise you there are tons of guys who are up on those $100 tourneys I accused you of playing. Negreanu is likely quite wrong but it is not near as easy as it seems given the way taxes work and traveling expenses. There is a huge difference between someone who plays tournaments at the local casino vs someone traveling around playing 10ks. I am sure there are plenty of +EV in both category but it is hard to realize the EV in the latter.
The reason an AP wouldn't play them is just because the hourly sucks. THat requires an EV calculation and such. The sort of thing you dismiss. So why even have this conversation?
Is this your weak amateur/immature hour attempt at a gotcha?...the "just sayin" quip gives you away.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
There is nothing genuine about you whatsoever...your rating is 100% douchebag.
Is this another one of your attempts at being funny?Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Dan Druff can speak for himself, but his Wikipedia page says the following...
"Witteles is primarily a cash game player."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Witteles
First, it wasn't Unger's 2nd main event win, it was his 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
2nd, it was played outside. There was no tent as you can obviously see in the video.
It looks like your "facts" on Unger are a little shaky.
https://youtu.be/_VZFONkQ8Ic
PS: You spent more time in Binions than me. I spent more time in the poker world than you.
Wow that's some self-ownage.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs this another one of your attempts at being funny?Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Dan Druff can speak for himself, but his Wikipedia page says the following...
"Witteles is primarily a cash game player."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Witteles
Cash games are also on the internet. Anyone who knows the most basics about poker would be able to explain the distinction.
Buddy, do yourself a favor and retire from the internet.
Never say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Todd Witteles
@ToddWitteles
3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years
https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
I know that Todd is a veteran of the Bovada 30-60 Holden games. I think he plays the California card barns too. Not long ago he revealed that for awhile he was a 300-600 Holden player in Las Vegas.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyNever say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Todd Witteles
@ToddWitteles
3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years
https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
Unger was dead by 1998. Todd is new generation. He wasn’t around in the 90’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I spent hundreds more hours in the Binions poker games than you.
I drank about 1 day a month. Never drank in the casinos. In downtown Vegas you’d have to go down to the Atomic to see me drunk.
Enjoying your night cap?
And? I also didn't say he didn't play live poker. I said he "came up playing online poker". See which he says .. you weren't even aware of the distinction and you thought "cash poker" meant live. You have not one clue about any of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyNever say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Todd Witteles
@ToddWitteles
3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years
https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
You did apparently go back to read twitter threads from last year trying to prove something.
I understand perfectly well he has also played plenty of live poker including high limit section at bellagio and a decent amount at commerce. That doesn't meant he came up doing that.
I might possibly be wrong but nothing you've said has demonstrated otherwise and you don't even under the basics of what you're referencing. You're just some 80+ year old dunce living out his last days trying to be another Singer. There isn't one person on this forum who will say a positive thing about you unless they do it to troll me specifically. lol
Todd was around in the very very early days of online poker. It is very possible/likely he played before that. IIRC he played on the very first site - Planet Poker.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmI know that Todd is a veteran of the Bovada 30-60 Holden games. I think he plays the California card barns too. Not long ago he revealed that for awhile he was a 300-600 Holden player in Las Vegas.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyNever say never...unless you are a dumbass cunt in question...Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Todd Witteles
@ToddWitteles
3:40 AM · Oct 13, 2024
I've been playing live cash poker for almost 25 years
https://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-...-todd-witteles
He was not part of the days of Unger's world and all that but again - I might be wrong but I won't be as wrong as Redietz and the dunce.
Are you trying to be funny again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyThat is so funny...Ozzy must be spinning in his grave laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
Is English your second language, or are you just an ignorant dumbass like everybody says you are?
Has Ozzy been officially declared dead? Posters do abandon Websites for personal reasons and are presumed dead and come back posting like three years later. Hell, I abandoned a Celebrity's Website for three years after losing interest in him and came back posting VERY sparingly. For all we know, Ozzy could still be alive and just got sick of the drama that VCT is. You never know.
What made Unger famous was his performance compared to his peers in 30 tournaments of his period in which the buy-in was either 5K or 10K.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Here's the breakdown of the winners of those tournaments as I remember it. I think I got this from Dalla's book:
16 players won 1 tournament each
Johnny Chan won 2 tournaments
Doyle Brunson won 2 tournaments
Stu Unger won 10 of the 30 tournaments.
That's what made him respected by his peers. They were in awe of his ability in tournaments.
The cash game referred to was gin rummy, not poker.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
This makes far more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmThe cash game referred to was gin rummy, not poker.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
That may be me you are talking about, as I started playing on Planet Poker around 1999 which was pre-no-limit online. At the time I think the highest they had was 10-20 limit they may have had 20-40 Limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionTodd was around in the very very early days of online poker. It is very possible/likely he played before that. IIRC he played on the very first site - Planet Poker.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmI know that Todd is a veteran of the Bovada 30-60 Holden games. I think he plays the California card barns too. Not long ago he revealed that for awhile he was a 300-600 Holden player in Las Vegas.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
He was not part of the days of Unger's world and all that but again - I might be wrong but I won't be as wrong as Redietz and the dunce.
Mickey, do you remember Robert X?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmWhat made Unger famous was his performance compared to his peers in 30 tournaments of his period in which the buy-in was either 5K or 10K.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Here's the breakdown of the winners of those tournaments as I remember it. I think I got this from Dalla's book:
16 players won 1 tournament each
Johnny Chan won 2 tournaments
Doyle Brunson won 2 tournaments
Stu Unger won 10 of the 30 tournaments.
That's what made him respected by his peers. They were in awe of his ability in tournaments.