The WoV Thread

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Originally Posted by Don Perignom

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

The struggle is needed

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I'd like to see the #s on that if there's reliable data.

People need motivation, but adversity is hard to handle at a young age. I expect most people with bad childhoods grow up to be self-loathing assholes.

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Adversity as a child is pretty good indicator. So good the CIA considers it a plus and essential. This is well documented.

Were talking the right kind of adversity. Not neighbor guy making you ride him bareback reverse cowgirl style like Kewj had done to him.

It was AZDuffman that blew up BBB. She was laying down typical illogical liberal bullshit after illogical liberal bullshit. Duffman calmly and methodically destroyed all her arguments. She did what liberals typically do in that spot, got pissed to high heaven. She started hurling insults at him. Shack had to intervene and scold her for doing exactly what she was moderating against. All Shack ever got out of her was "I acknowledge what you are saying." She never admitted to what she did.

She knew right then she was through with the forum. She would just give it a little time then disappear. And that's what she did.

When you destroy a liberal's arguments they always get pissed. Start hurling insults like you're racist, homophobe, etc. What they are really pissed about is they know deep down inside that liberalism is illogical. And it tears them to pieces. They hate you for pointing out the fallacies they espouse. That's what happened to BBB.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

It was AZDuffman that blew up BBB. She was laying down typical illogical liberal bullshit after illogical liberal bullshit. Duffman calmly and methodically destroyed all her arguments. She did what liberals typically do in that spot, got pissed to high heaven. She started hurling insults at him. Shack had to intervene and scold her for doing exactly what she was moderating against. All Shack ever got out of her was "I acknowledge what you are saying." She never admitted to what she did.

She knew right then she was through with the forum. She would just give it a little time then disappear. And that's what she did.

When you destroy a liberal's arguments they always get pissed. Start hurling insults like you're racist, homophobe, etc. What they are really pissed about is they know deep down inside that liberalism is illogical. And it tears them to pieces. They hate you for pointing out the fallacies they espouse. That's what happened to BBB.

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I remember BBB saying something like,"You are stinky pond scum!" To AzDuffman and Wizard saying something like,"You have crossed the line , BBB. I am appalled that you insulted AzDuffman. As an Admin, you are held to a higher standard. You deserve to be demodded for the unacceptable insulting you did to AzDuffman, but you have been such a loyal Admin for me, so I will NOT be demodding you, but in most cases, you would have been demodded."

Tasha,

Thanks for the kind mention. I'm not sure what instance you're talking about (or with what handle), but I'm pretty sure that you were still posting (in one of your iterations) at the time that I was no longer an Admin. That being the case, there would have been nothing I could do for you anyway.

For anyone who would suggest Tasha is a complete idiot, it seems to me that one of Tasha's main goals is to garner interactions. It seems that she has been successful in achieving that goal for damn near a decade, and if the responses to her post in this thread are any indication, continues to be successful in achieving that goal to this day. Clearly, she's intelligent enough to accomplish that.

Of course, I don't agree with the language used and consider it pretty unfair to BBB, but Tasha already knows that. Naturally, I would have had sufficient cause to justify Nuking Tasha myself, when I was an Admin, but I had no real desire to do so. Quite frankly, that so many people came to me demanding she be Nuked for even the slightest perceived infractions caused in me negative inclination to Nuke her. Contrary to popular belief, I didn't Nuke people on an on-demand basis.

I do think Tasha likes to troll, but for the most part, when she does, she's not actually hurting anything. I recall that she would often make mathematically inaccurate statements that would beg for correction, and they were corrected; that's engagement---engagement, in most cases, is a net positive for the forum and adds value.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

It was AZDuffman that blew up BBB. She was laying down typical illogical liberal bullshit after illogical liberal bullshit. Duffman calmly and methodically destroyed all her arguments. She did what liberals typically do in that spot, got pissed to high heaven. She started hurling insults at him. Shack had to intervene and scold her for doing exactly what she was moderating against. All Shack ever got out of her was "I acknowledge what you are saying." She never admitted to what she did.

She knew right then she was through with the forum. She would just give it a little time then disappear. And that's what she did.

When you destroy a liberal's arguments they always get pissed. Start hurling insults like you're racist, homophobe, etc. What they are really pissed about is they know deep down inside that liberalism is illogical. And it tears them to pieces. They hate you for pointing out the fallacies they espouse. That's what happened to BBB.

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Honestly, the only Administrative action that BBB ever did that I highly disagreed with was trying to shut down DarkOz when he was discussing something strictly topical to gambling. Neither DarkOz nor the forum have any responsibility not to discuss AP-related things and I find it endlessly amusing that people would get pissed off about such discussions taking place on WoV, but then be part of gambling Twitter, Discord, whatever.

Oh, but there are definitely no casino operatives infiltrating Discord or reading posts on Twitter that are also literally public. lol

If you look at her first posts upon being appointed a moderator, she stated that she intended to moderate with a "light hand." Pretty soon though she was suspending people right and left, and handing down one suspension after another to me. This was back when the automatic Martingale was in effect, so I ended up with a two month sentence at one point.

One of the first suspensions she gave me was over that I mentioned something about watches in the context of that AxelWolf wouldn't know a real from a fake Rolex if it landed in his pint sized glasses of Cap'n Morgan (of course, I didn't say it like that, but I was responding to that he had stated that one of my $75,000. Rolex platinum watches was a fake) and she thought I was belittling anyone who didn't have an expensive watch, when really all I was saying is that AxelWolf didn't know what he was talking about when he said that a watch of mine was not genuine, which is true anyway, AxelWolf is a know it all loudmouth who constantly interrupts people in person and spouts off (at length) whether he knows what he is talking about or not.

She actually nuked me at one point a couple weeks before that two month suspension was due to expire when I was "impostered" :D by a sock puppet, until she realized that I was not the one who made the posts. So that sort of shoot first ask questions later attitude was what she developed, and she definitely was incapable of putting aside her own opinions and biases when moderating.

She must've had some kind of disagreement with either the forum or its policy because she disappeared. I think part of it might have been an over all disagreement with the free speech policy at the forum, as liberal as she claimed to be she couldn't handle that and apparently wanted to guide people's thoughts. No way she could handle threads like EvenBob's for example. She'd be too worried or at least claim to be too worried that such threads would influence people to gamble.

Over all, I didn't have a problem with her even though she suspended me a lot. It is, after all, just an internet forum.

These forums take up a lot of time, and unless you're someone like UNKewlJ who simply cannot stay away even after repeatedly declaring that he will, getting kicked out of a forum could actually be a blessing if you actually stay away and stop spending time at the same type of forum.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Honestly, the only Administrative action that BBB ever did that I highly disagreed with was trying to shut down DarkOz when he was discussing something strictly topical to gambling. Neither DarkOz nor the forum have any responsibility not to discuss AP-related things and I find it endlessly amusing that people would get pissed off about such discussions taking place on WoV, but then be part of gambling Twitter, Discord, whatever.

Oh, but there are definitely no casino operatives infiltrating Discord or reading posts on Twitter that are also literally public. lol

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Seriously, you are comparing what happens or is allowed at the garbage heaps that are twitter and discord to WoV? Advantage players are in a constant battle with the casinos we play. We don't expect WoV of all forums to be part of that fight destroying opportunities. So, yes, I believe WoV DOES have a responsibility to protect such opportunities by not publishing them.

I can think of at least two times when the man that started that forum, intentionally destroyed opportunities for others. One being the Plaza promotion, where he didn't just mention it, but specifically laid out how to beat it and how much that was worth in terms of profit each hour. The result was the best machines were pulled from that promotion, even before it started.

The second one was personal to me. My brother and I were camped out in Colorado for a couple weeks playing a nice profitable blackjack side bet. Again Wizard posted exactly step by step how to beat that side bet and what it was worth. Almost immediately, I think the next day, the amount allowed to wager on the side bet was reduced by 75%, which all but killed any profit from it.

In both these cases, I believe Wizard decided he wasn't going to play these opportunities, so he killed them for everyone....just because he could. He couldn't just wait until after each had played out and then revealed the math, for the sake of revealing the math.

Intentionally doing this is taking money from players.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

If you look at her first posts upon being appointed a moderator, she stated that she intended to moderate with a "light hand." Pretty soon though she was suspending people right and left, and handing down one suspension after another to me. This was back when the automatic Martingale was in effect, so I ended up with a two month sentence at one point.

One of the first suspensions she gave me was over that I mentioned something about watches in the context of that AxelWolf wouldn't know a real from a fake Rolex if it landed in his pint sized glasses of Cap'n Morgan (of course, I didn't say it like that, but I was responding to that he had stated that one of my $75,000. Rolex platinum watches was a fake) and she thought I was belittling anyone who didn't have an expensive watch, when really all I was saying is that AxelWolf didn't know what he was talking about when he said that a watch of mine was not genuine, which is true anyway, AxelWolf is a know it all loudmouth who constantly interrupts people in person and spouts off (at length) whether he knows what he is talking about or not.

She actually nuked me at one point a couple weeks before that two month suspension was due to expire when I was "impostered" :D by a sock puppet, until she realized that I was not the one who made the posts. So that sort of shoot first ask questions later attitude was what she developed, and she definitely was incapable of putting aside her own opinions and biases when moderating.

She must've had some kind of disagreement with either the forum or its policy because she disappeared. I think part of it might have been an over all disagreement with the free speech policy at the forum, as liberal as she claimed to be she couldn't handle that and apparently wanted to guide people's thoughts. No way she could handle threads like EvenBob's for example. She'd be too worried or at least claim to be too worried that such threads would influence people to gamble.

Over all, I didn't have a problem with her even though she suspended me a lot. It is, after all, just an internet forum.

These forums take up a lot of time, and unless you're someone like UNKewlJ who simply cannot stay away even after repeatedly declaring that he will, getting kicked out of a forum could actually be a blessing if you actually stay away and stop spending time at the same type of forum.

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How are you using, 'Pretty soon?'

BBB was an Administrator at the same time I was; I resigned from being an Administrator prior to MDawg even joining the forum (Resignation Post: 3/12/18; MDawg Joins: 9/27/18).

"Pretty soon," is definitely a subjective term, but as I recall, BBB was an Administrator as far back as 2014. That being the case, she definitely wouldn't have been Suspending MDawg at any time that most people would describe as, "Pretty soon," after becoming an Administrator.

I can only assume that your second sentence was meant to be two totally separate thoughts.

I have no idea why she disappeared. She made it public knowledge, in 2020, that she was living with her mom and also acting as her caretaker. I have no idea whether or not that is still the case as BBB and I have not directly spoken for some time. Of course, even if I did know, I couldn't reveal information more current than what she has already made public. She was also seeking advice as to what to do with her ex-husband, and obviously, I have no idea what came of that, either. Just prior to those posts, she had mentioned having some physical problems, so I obviously don't know what happened with those.

With that, my last assumption would be that things have significantly improved for her since then, though I certainly hope that they have. Even if they had, it would be a bit difficult, I would think, to just come in and start being an active Admin given that she has made all of ten posts within the last three years. Of course, there's no reason she couldn't (if she wanted) as I gather she is still considered an Admin in good standing.

Anyway, her disappearance coincides with all of those posts she made re: the issues she was having, so I suspect it had little, or nothing, to do with policy. I obviously don't know. The whole thing with DarkOz was only a few months before that, but I really shouldn't write about gambling if I am unwilling to accept that coincidences sometimes happen. My opinion is that she wanted to shut DarkOz down as a sort of AP protectional thing, but what the fuck kind of gambling forum is it if people can't freely discuss gambling stuff?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

The second one was personal to me. My brother and I were camped out in Colorado blah blah blah

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

I don’t believe your lies. You’re a joke attention seeking gay man who has his wires crossed

I know the small edge grind you fraud. So go fuck yourself with that long black dildo you ride on baby Bros lap

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Originally Posted by MDawg

If you look at her first posts upon being appointed a moderator, she stated that she intended to moderate with a "light hand." Pretty soon though she was suspending people right and left, and handing down one suspension after another to me. This was back when the automatic Martingale was in effect, so I ended up with a two month sentence at one point.

One of the first suspensions she gave me was over that I mentioned something about watches in the context of that AxelWolf wouldn't know a real from a fake Rolex if it landed in his pint sized glasses of Cap'n Morgan (of course, I didn't say it like that, but I was responding to that he had stated that one of my $75,000. Rolex platinum watches was a fake) and she thought I was belittling anyone who didn't have an expensive watch, when really all I was saying is that AxelWolf didn't know what he was talking about when he said that a watch of mine was not genuine, which is true anyway, AxelWolf is a know it all loudmouth who constantly interrupts people in person and spouts off (at length) whether he knows what he is talking about or not.

She actually nuked me at one point a couple weeks before that two month suspension was due to expire when I was "impostered" :D by a sock puppet, until she realized that I was not the one who made the posts. So that sort of shoot first ask questions later attitude was what she developed, and she definitely was incapable of putting aside her own opinions and biases when moderating.

She must've had some kind of disagreement with either the forum or its policy because she disappeared. I think part of it might have been an over all disagreement with the free speech policy at the forum, as liberal as she claimed to be she couldn't handle that and apparently wanted to guide people's thoughts. No way she could handle threads like EvenBob's for example. She'd be too worried or at least claim to be too worried that such threads would influence people to gamble.

Over all, I didn't have a problem with her even though she suspended me a lot. It is, after all, just an internet forum.

These forums take up a lot of time, and unless you're someone like UNKewlJ who simply cannot stay away even after repeatedly declaring that he will, getting kicked out of a forum could actually be a blessing if you actually stay away and stop spending time at the same type of forum.

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Remember, Posters also stood up for you saying they didn't think you were the Imposter, and Posters pointed out that you were actually driving from Nevada to California when the Imposter was active. Posters were like,"I wouldn't be posting on a Website if I'm driving from Nevada to California! I'd be too focused on not getting into a car accident!' One Poster even gave a VERY hard hitting question,"So does this mean that Axelwolf can get a two month Suspension and some Imposter can pretend to be Axelwolf a d the Admin's will blindly permanently ban Axelwolf?" BBB did research and found out that some random guy had been impersonating you on multiple websites and she admitted the Admins got played and reversed the permanent banning and the imposter remained permanently banned.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

BBB was an Administrator at the same time I was; I resigned from being an Administrator prior to MDawg even joining the forum (Resignation Post: 3/12/18; MDawg Joins: 9/27/18).

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Yeah right!!! :D That may be when he joined using THAT handle. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Mission146

Honestly, the only Administrative action that BBB ever did that I highly disagreed with was trying to shut down DarkOz when he was discussing something strictly topical to gambling. Neither DarkOz nor the forum have any responsibility not to discuss AP-related things and I find it endlessly amusing that people would get pissed off about such discussions taking place on WoV, but then be part of gambling Twitter, Discord, whatever.

Oh, but there are definitely no casino operatives infiltrating Discord or reading posts on Twitter that are also literally public. lol

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Seriously, you are comparing what happens or is allowed at the garbage heaps that are twitter and discord to WoV? Advantage players are in a constant battle with the casinos we play. We don't expect WoV of all forums to be part of that fight destroying opportunities. So, yes, I believe WoV DOES have a responsibility to protect such opportunities by not publishing them.

I can think of at least two times when the man that started that forum, intentionally destroyed opportunities for others. One being the Plaza promotion, where he didn't just mention it, but specifically laid out how to beat it and how much that was worth in terms of profit each hour. The result was the best machines were pulled from that promotion, even before it started.

The second one was personal to me. My brother and I were camped out in Colorado for a couple weeks playing a nice profitable blackjack side bet. Again Wizard posted exactly step by step how to beat that side bet and what it was worth. Almost immediately, I think the next day, the amount allowed to wager on the side bet was reduced by 75%, which all but killed any profit from it.

In both these cases, I believe Wizard decided he wasn't going to play these opportunities, so he killed them for everyone....just because he could. He couldn't just wait until after each had played out and then revealed the math, for the sake of revealing the math.

Intentionally doing this is taking money from players.

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I apologize for missing this post, somehow.

First of all, there's a bit more to it than just Twitter and Discord.

You see, when I got raked over the coals, it was for Nuking a post (not the poster) that linked to a site that Doxxed, in particular, WoN/SAP's wife. Naturally, Doxxing anyone is not permitted on the site, so that is a pretty clear cut rule that I had to uphold. For upholding this rule, in the context of being a Forum Admin, many individuals (some AP's) raked me over the coals.

Fast forward a little under two years and DarkOz makes his posts describing plays. I strongly suspect that some AP's, probably some of the same ones who went after me on the SAP/WoN thing, got in BBB's ear about shutting DarkOz down. I wouldn't be shocked if I were to discover that BBB was in on some plays as I understand she was dappling in all of that---which I gather from Monet's posts here. If that is the case, which I don't know, she'd have also been shutting DarkOz down out of selfish motivations to preserve future opportunity for financial gain for herself. In other words, nothing legitimately to do with Forum Rules or policy whatsoever.

As you may or may not recall, some of these same individuals who I suspect of getting in BBB's ear also attempted (though within the rules) to discredit DarkOz at every opportunity. This had been going on for a year, if not more, though I am sure they would describe it as, "Just fucking with him." BBB came up with some half-baked argument about not sharing info on plays for revenge, as if that would somehow violate any Forum Rules, and, it would seem, started to go after DarkOz on that basis.

Not being an Administrator, I have no idea what put an end to that. I will say that DarkOz' story (both of the play and personal) was interesting enough, and he seemed willing enough to discuss it, that it would make for a good article in my series of articles I was writing at the time. With that, I asked if he would be willing to do that and he was.

So, basically you end up with I think BBB going after DarkOz for pressure that I believe she was getting behind the scenes to shut him up...though I could be wrong about that. If there was such pressure behind the scenes, to get her to Nuke DarkOz for some rule that she had just made up off of the top of her head that you can't discuss AP for revenge purposes, then I imagine it came from some of the same people who wanted to come after me for, God forbid, actually having the audacity to enforce clear Forum Rules.

Which of course makes all involved hypocrites, at least, if all of my suspicions are accurate. I'm really not surprised that some would be hypocrites. That said, I do understand the actions, and logic behind the actions, as it relates to all parties involved. Personally, were I DarkOz, I'd have started singing long before that---don't piss me off. The only reason that I don't talk about as much stuff as I could theoretically talk about is because many on the AP side of things have been kind and reasonable to me.

I really don't give a shit about your opportunities, the opportunities of other AP's or even my own opportunities because I'm not a fucking hypocrite. You either like free speech, or you don't; a statement is either true, or it is untrue. Also, you're the last person who should ever be suggesting that WoV owes you anything whatsoever; should I quote the Collected Encyclopedia Brittanica Full Set's worth of your lifetime posts (everywhere) that trash Wizard personally? What the fuck could the site possibly owe you?

The site has rules. If you're an Admin, then your job is to keep and enforce the rules. There's no rule that says you can't discuss AP, and certainly, AP is sometimes discussed. Perhaps the lesson is that if you treat people reasonably, then they will be less-inclined to publicly disclose the AP playbook. Shit, I almost went into great detail on some stuff out of pure spite, at one point, but I had other people who are AP's to also think about. Just because I wouldn't necessarily share some stuff doesn't mean that others can't.

DarkOz was the first to share the Plaza tax promotion, as I recall. Wizard just analyzed the thing. Wizard actually doesn't publicly disclose nearly as much stuff as he theoretically could. Also, Wizard analyzed it for Video Poker, which was actually far from being the best EV play for that promotion. Dancer said no VP killed it, which I disagreed with him about. Of course, I don't believe I publicly shared what would have been better plays, but I assure you, there are FAR better plays.

So what about you and your brother's play? Did you tip Wizard as to the play and then he published it and analyzed it? You don't fucking own side bets. If he wants to analyze a side bet, then he can analyze a side bet. I'll tepidly agree with you if he heard about the play directly from you.

Besides, you talked, at length, about your card counting experiences and tips for doing that. Is AP allowed to be discussed only on condition that you approve the specific subject matter? Again, hypocrite.

Anyway, just be less greedy and you won't care. If I'm doing something and it gets killed, I really don't give a shit.

Thing is: People think I'm too fucking stupid to put two and two together on these things. It's not that; it's mostly just that I don't care and don't have any particular inclination to harm AP's.

I have the impression that she went dark not too long after some scallywag posted an unflattering picture of her; good lord, what a beast.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

These forums take up a lot of time, and unless you're someone like UNKewlJ who simply cannot stay away even after repeatedly declaring that he will, getting kicked out of a forum could actually be a blessing if you actually stay away and stop spending time at the same type of forum.

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lol

This is a big part of why I don't really actively post on other sites. AFAIK I don't have a WOV account. I'm ok with that. Browsing on occasion is enough. I'd rather just be at the uncensored site than put up with the stuff I see describing this BBB person.

Forum moderation is one of those things.. those qualified to do it don't want to fuck with it. Often those who are willing to moderate are often not qualfied.

BBB seemed so humble in her very first post on WOV, she said,"New Member, please be gentle." She did a complete 189 and turned into a power hungry, mean , insulting, harassing, power tripping, tyrant, dictator BITCH. Sad.

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Originally Posted by Tasha

BBB seemed so humble in her very first post on WOV, she said,"New Member, please be gentle." She did a complete 189 and turned into a power hungry, mean , insulting, harassing, power tripping, tyrant, dictator BITCH. Sad.

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I think Rusty had a bad overall influence on BBB.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I have the impression that she went dark not too long after some scallywag posted an unflattering picture of her; good lord, what a beast.

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LOL that was one of the worst pics I've ever seen, she resembled a wildebeest.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I have the impression that she went dark not too long after some scallywag posted an unflattering picture of her; good lord, what a beast.

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Speaking of pics. Looks like BetcheckBet from PFA, stole you're headshot and used it as his avatar for several months last year. Quite comical.

Alan was fine, he liked me and he knew I won at the casinos, so saying that he was against anyone who won, is incorrect. He didn't like UNKewlJ, but nowadays, who does? I commented a while back that Boz was sounding more and more like ulp UNKewlJ, and this theory of that anyone against APs is against them because he's jealous, puts him more in line with UNKewlJ.

Alan was just stubborn, and most of us here are the same, some of the older ones more than the rest.

He died. Whether he died with a lot or a little I think he lived his life the way he wanted.