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If every SESSION went according to the math, I would have long ago passed on playing MY version of what understanding I have of the strategies. I know I'm considered the village idiot here, but it doesn't even phase me anymore. Short term, win goals,loss limits,a so called 'special' play every once in a while, and the ability to not fear changing machines when.necessary.
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Originally Posted by smurgerburger
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Originally Posted by redietz
Redietz you seem now to be conceding that Singer likely did exploit the DUP blog. You seem to disagree with how he came to know about it and how much money he profited by it.
But those latter points were not the focus of dispute back when we were all arguing about this some months ago (feels like a lifetime, lol).
I specifically remember you taking the line that we have no proof that Singer's professed method is the true DUP method, therefore we should not believe it.
Whereas I think the more objective of us realized that Singer's reported method was very likely correct. You can think he's a fraud in other respects but the method he posted here was either genuine or a very clever hoax that made a lot more sense than what was described in the WIRED article.
I don't really care and we're all allowed to change our opinions, but I do want you to confirm that you now believe that he was executing the DUP bug. Because a whole lot of his detractors were saying the opposite...
Again, the big controversy was about whether he was using the DUP bug at all. Not his whole surrounding story about how he discovered it and how much $ he made with it. I for one don't care whether he made $10 or $10M.
I would re-read those posts of mine. I specifically did not say "that we have no proof that Singer's professed method is the true DUP method." In fact, when this first started, I said to people privately pretty much what I said above. If you email Mendelson, and ask for "Singer's" history-of-how-he-did-it as "Singer" wrote it for Mendelson's site, you'll see pretty clearly that Rob was stuck for an origin story. It's obvious.
I think there's a longshot but reasonable chance (maybe 30-40%), that "Singer" executed the bug. And he wasn't caught. And he didn't discover it. And other people were on assignment to do the same thing. And none of them are rolling in the dough these days.
Look, another angle to this is -- what's more likely, that the bug was an accident or not? You take that idea and run.
Please show me where anyone ever said that every session goes according to the math? That is exactly what short-term variance is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot
Anyone can win or lose much more than the math says over a short, small sample size like a session or day. I personally have shared some of my most extreme in both directions. I have has a 6 deck shoe, probably about 60 rounds, in which I won $20,000. I have has exactly (1) losing day of $20,000. Expectation was less than a few hundred dollars for each (less than $100 for the single shoe win). I would hope and think these examples make it crystal clear that short-term results have zero meaning....anything can and will occur.
The problem continues to be that Rob's system claims do not fall under short-term or small sample size. When I first started challenging Rob's progressive system claims, the claims were for over a million dollars over 10+ years. Over time that number changed to something in the million and a half range. And then when he came out with the double up claim, the timing didn't work, so he had to shorten the progressive system claim to 4 years and $375k. I mean I can't help it that Rob's claim has constantly evolved. :rolleyes:
But whatever time frame and amount you use, this progressive system claim is NOT short-term or a small sample size, so that excuse doesn't fly. And when you get into longterm, large sample size, the math does take over and this is where Rob's claim always comes apart.
You were right, I misremembered you as quahaug.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzQuote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburgerQuote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Redietz you seem now to be conceding that Singer likely did exploit the DUP blog. You seem to disagree with how he came to know about it and how much money he profited by it.
But those latter points were not the focus of dispute back when we were all arguing about this some months ago (feels like a lifetime, lol).
I specifically remember you taking the line that we have no proof that Singer's professed method is the true DUP method, therefore we should not believe it.
Whereas I think the more objective of us realized that Singer's reported method was very likely correct. You can think he's a fraud in other respects but the method he posted here was either genuine or a very clever hoax that made a lot more sense than what was described in the WIRED article.
I don't really care and we're all allowed to change our opinions, but I do want you to confirm that you now believe that he was executing the DUP bug. Because a whole lot of his detractors were saying the opposite...
Again, the big controversy was about whether he was using the DUP bug at all. Not his whole surrounding story about how he discovered it and how much $ he made with it. I for one don't care whether he made $10 or $10M.
I would re-read those posts of mine. I specifically did not say "that we have no proof that Singer's professed method is the true DUP method." In fact, when this first started, I said to people privately pretty much what I said above. If you email Mendelson, and ask for "Singer's" history-of-how-he-did-it as "Singer" wrote it for Mendelson's site, you'll see pretty clearly that Rob was stuck for an origin story. It's obvious.
I think there's a longshot but reasonable chance (maybe 30-40%), that "Singer" executed the bug. And he wasn't caught. And he didn't discover it. And other people were on assignment to do the same thing. And none of them are rolling in the dough these days.
Look, another angle to this is -- what's more likely, that the bug was an accident or not? You take that idea and run.
I apologise. I bumped the old post in case anyone cares.
Slingshot, There is just nothing new about the concept of progressive wagering. Another term is "chasing losses". And the casinos love this concept! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot
I don't play roulette, but I like to use examples from roulette because it is so easily understood by almost everyone. So a player starts playing roulette, betting black/red or odd even or 1-18/19-36 or any of the column type outside bets. He is betting $25. So after an hour he is down a few hundred, which is pretty much to be expected because of the house edge (green 0 & 00). So he decides it is going to be hard winning his money back playing $25 a spin, so he ups it to $100 a spin. After another hour he is now down $800 or $900. Again, he ups his wager to now betting $500 a spin. after another hour he is down $3000.
Do you see, at no point was he ever favored to win any spin? I mean could he have won 3 or 4 in a row just after moving up in stakes and walked away a winner? Absolutely. Is this a winning strategy? Absolutely not! The casino will welcome this every single minute of every day. They probably will even allow you to bet over the table max once you bump up against it. :cool:
This is exactly how progressive wagering works and Rob's "system" is no different despite all his bells and whistles. Just like the roulette example, EVERY single spin is played at a disadvantage and you cannot win long-term with every spin played at a disadvantage, no matter how you choose to vary wager amounts. Disadvantage is disadvantage. Changing wagering amounts simply cannot overcome disadvantage.
Red, I see the problems people like you and kew have here, as it's very misguided. You think that just because I won with a strategy that doesn't 100% follow the math, and that I played the double up anomaly for 5-1/2 years, I should be some kind of wealthy celebrity. I do talk a big game in that dept., but $375,000 over 4 years and $2.8mil over nearly 6 years does not a rich man make. At least not in my world. If I had stayed on at my job in 1999 until 2009 I'd have made quite a bit more than that. But I still bought an expensive RV that I probably wouldn't have if I never gambled. I had to do something with all that double up cash.
That's what some of you people aren't capable of getting. There's millions of people with good paying jobs out there, and millions more who made more than me. Many of them have problems like divorce(s) with alimony, child support, and related expenses, which seriously cuts into disposable income. Not me. I think this is one thing about me you/kew despise. WTF, a big mouth who says he wins a lot gambling unorthodoxly, and he doesn't have divorces?! Huh....he's also as healthy as a 40-year old??! Get outta here!
Well, just like I figured out a way to work myself onto the other side of the Bell curve with my strategy and how I discovered and in my opinion played the DU bug to perfection while it lasted, I'm basically on the other side of that curve on a lot of things. That's just the way it is with some people. They figure out ways to make money and survive the onslaught. Starting out with a great lasting marriage and family sure sets the stage for all-around success.
Rob, Congratulations on your marriage of many years. AS sincerely as I can state, congratulations. I hope you and your wife are still in love and enjoy each others company AND have many more years together.
That doesn't change that your progressive wagering "system" is a bunch of nonsense. And it isn't even new nonsense. It is longtime common voodoo knowledge.
Unfortunately, the 70 year old thinking and stating he is as healthy as a 40 year old is a person in denial a trait that seems to repeatedly show up with you. Denial or alternative reality or just unable to accept reality....which ever terminology you want to use.
I suspect the 40 year old reference is in regards to me?:confused: I am not yet 40 for a few years but whatever. Yes, I do have some health issues despite that I sometime deny it, trying not to give you the satisfaction you seek in wishing ill of others. I have a heart issue. To be specific, a heart valve issue that has caused my to have 2 heart surgeries before I turned 35. The second was a freak thing of the medical device wearing out very early, after 6 years when it should last 20-25. Short end of the bell curve on the most important thing in my life so far.
So if you want to take pleasure in that I have had 2 heart surgeries, I don't know what to tell you. That is a reflection on you, not me. What I can tell you is that aside from my heart issue, which I do everything I can and am told to do to remain as healthy as possible, I am pretty healthy. I eat well, am not fat (although, the last 6 weeks at home...well. :rolleyes:) I exercise regularly, run long distance a couple times a week, play sports regularly, have run in marathons since my second heart surgery. And while I work hard to stay healthy, I will almost assuredly have to have a 3rd heart surgery at some point. Hopefully by that time, advances will be made so that it can be less invasive.
So the point is: maybe you are fairly healthy for a 70 years old. Pictures from 10 years ago didn't look like it, but maybe you are. But you are not healthier than me and you are not healthier than most 40 year olds. That is just more denial, and alternative reality stuff on your part. You are a 70 year old man. Just be happy and enjoy the life you keep telling everyone you have and stop trying to prove shit that is fantasy stuff.
It's crystal clear that Rob didn't discover the double up bug? Wow. You know that but haven't tried to claim the reward I posted, what, more than a year ago, for information that Rob didn't discover it. Damn, redietz. That would have been some easy money for you. The gambling world is a small world. Everybody seems to know everybody or know of everybody. This person that taught Rob the glitch. Who is he? How come he has remained silent? You must know him. Any chance you can get him to spill the beans?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Rob knows more about the double up bug than anyone on the internet. He knew that the published sequence of events were wrong. He publicly retirned as a professional gambler in 2009 when the double up bug got discovered by the casinos. If only this person that taught rob the glitch would come forward and collect the reward....
Redietz it looks like you've bought into the "Rob is broke" routine hook line & sinker. I think all the evidence points the other way. We all had a lot of fun pretending Rob was broke. It was a way to get back at him. But people that own RV's aren't the broke kind. No one has ever put up any evidence of Rob being on the skids.
Kew, I've taken EXTREME care of myself my whole life. That was instilled in me during my greuling Gov't job which had almost unbelievable training involved. Far more intense than anything you've ever heard of.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
As a result, I have zero underlying issues, and the only problems I've ever had have been a couple of knife wounds (mid-chest and left thumb) and the broken foot I sustained from horsing around. I'm at the same weight I've been since sometime before 40, and I walk/exercize every day. My nutrition would make Jack LaLane jealous. I've never smoked or taken drugs, and the only reason I've tried to take 1-2 alcoholic drinks a day my whole life is because Harvard Medical School wrote that 1-2 is better than none for a person my size.
So you are very wrong that at 71 in a few weeks, I'm not in better shape than someone who's had the medical issues you have, and lives as sedentary as you do. You don't want it to be that way just like you don't want it to be that my play strategy won as I say it has, but there's that little voice in the back of your head telling you differently again. Why do you think YOU got this virus and I did not? Correct!--My IMMUNE SYSTEM is so much healthier than yours!! Under 40 vs. almost 71? I'll take Manhattan.
Liberals know more than Conservatives, obviously. Just like Joe Biden knows better than Trump how to handle this Covid mess, and CNN knows better than anybody that it's best for the country if they hide Tara Reade's sexual assault criminal charges and multiple avenues of evidence against Creepy Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIt's crystal clear that Rob didn't discover the double up bug? Wow. You know that but haven't tried to claim the reward I posted, what, more than a year ago, for information that Rob didn't discover it. Damn, redietz. That would have been some easy money for you. The gambling world is a small world. Everybody seems to know everybody or know of everybody. This person that taught Rob the glitch. Who is he? How come he has remained silent? You must know him. Any chance you can get him to spill the beans?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Rob knows more about the double up bug than anyone on the internet. He knew that the published sequence of events were wrong. He publicly retirned as a professional gambler in 2009 when the double up bug got discovered by the casinos. If only this person that taught rob the glitch would come forward and collect the reward....
Redietz it looks like you've bought into the "Rob is broke" routine hook line & sinker. I think all the evidence points the other way. We all had a lot of fun pretending Rob was broke. It was a way to get back at him. But people that own RV's aren't the broke kind. No one has ever put up any evidence of Rob being on the skids.
These true believers are the end-all.
Hey Mickey did Rob let you put away your shine box before he shoved his cock down your throat?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIt's crystal clear that Rob didn't discover the double up bug? Wow. You know that but haven't tried to claim the reward I posted, what, more than a year ago, for information that Rob didn't discover it. Damn, redietz. That would have been some easy money for you. The gambling world is a small world. Everybody seems to know everybody or know of everybody. This person that taught Rob the glitch. Who is he? How come he has remained silent? You must know him. Any chance you can get him to spill the beans?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Rob knows more about the double up bug than anyone on the internet. He knew that the published sequence of events were wrong. He publicly retirned as a professional gambler in 2009 when the double up bug got discovered by the casinos. If only this person that taught rob the glitch would come forward and collect the reward....
Redietz it looks like you've bought into the "Rob is broke" routine hook line & sinker. I think all the evidence points the other way. We all had a lot of fun pretending Rob was broke. It was a way to get back at him. But people that own RV's aren't the broke kind. No one has ever put up any evidence of Rob being on the skids.
I understand you don't like me. But what is mickey saying that bothers you so much? Do you have anything to counter his statements? Or do you think that by just saying something stupid against him is all you need to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcapHey Mickey did Rob let you put away your shine box before he shoved his cock down your throat?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmIt's crystal clear that Rob didn't discover the double up bug? Wow. You know that but haven't tried to claim the reward I posted, what, more than a year ago, for information that Rob didn't discover it. Damn, redietz. That would have been some easy money for you. The gambling world is a small world. Everybody seems to know everybody or know of everybody. This person that taught Rob the glitch. Who is he? How come he has remained silent? You must know him. Any chance you can get him to spill the beans?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Rob knows more about the double up bug than anyone on the internet. He knew that the published sequence of events were wrong. He publicly retirned as a professional gambler in 2009 when the double up bug got discovered by the casinos. If only this person that taught rob the glitch would come forward and collect the reward....
Redietz it looks like you've bought into the "Rob is broke" routine hook line & sinker. I think all the evidence points the other way. We all had a lot of fun pretending Rob was broke. It was a way to get back at him. But people that own RV's aren't the broke kind. No one has ever put up any evidence of Rob being on the skids.
A message of care for kew.
It would be best if you got your 14 hours of sleep each day, instead of obsessing and worrying over my vp play. Heaven knows, someone in your compromised physical condition just should't be allowing your head portals to be trying to keep up with mine! Extraordinary brainpower differences aside, it wouldn't be right if you were never able to acknowledge the Undeniable Truth about the gambling world.
Live to see a better day.
That cuts both ways. Playing devil's advocate here, surely someone would have noticed something amiss, especially since Rob wasn't a low profile person to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
And to add to that, one of the key elements to the double up bug glitch regarding the bill validator lighting while double up was initiated.... was not top secret, I found out about that aspect independent of Rob and well before he ever posted about any of this.
There's some things that make me believe he did in fact play the double up bug, but there are other things that leave me puzzled.
I do remember that being the key question you asked of me in our telecon. I don't know and always wondered where you heard about that. Can you explain?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolfThat cuts both ways. Playing devil's advocate here, surely someone would have noticed something amiss, especially since Rob wasn't a low profile person to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
And to add to that, one of the key elements to the double up bug glitch regarding the bill validator lighting while double up was initiated.... was not top secret, I found out about that aspect independent of Rob and well before he ever posted about any of this.
There's some things that make me believe he did in fact play the double up bug, but there are other things that leave me puzzled.
But that wasn't the only key. Did anyone ever tell you or did you know somehow that the bug could be played without needing a handpay jackpot? I don't believe anybody anywhere ever knew that. Maybe Kane and Nestor, but I never saw it mentioned anywhere. And, were you aware of the fact that while the "bug" activated with the double up mode turned on, in the newer machines (around 2007-up) where the question did not show up on the screen in Yes/No format and simply had the double up yellow tag at the bottom of the screen, you had to first activate the double up before you could work the bug. It merely being there with the option turned on was meaningless.
Also, what's your take on why I posted my retirement from professional play about when Kane got caught? Devil's advocate would say coiincidence, right?
And if I may in another area, I've always wondered this (asking for your opinion): the day Kane made a fool of himself and got nailed at the Silverton--how could it possibly be that the guy upstairs who noticed he was using the same hand a second time to get paid, AND THE INVESTIGATORS INCLUDING THAT 25-YR OLD COMPUTER FORENSICS GENIUS, could not figure out right then and there what steps Kane was using to make the machine pay out a duplicate jackpot? It is all on very clear video. But they couldn't easily trace his steps? Kew the expert claims upstairs watches winners like a hawk.
To me there is and always has been something funny in Denmark. This 25-year old had to go to a lab to figure it all out when it was on digital video all along upstairs? BS! These idiots busted up the play for me and my life instantly changed. The incompetence here is mind boggling. There's got to be more to the story. And the article Wired wrote from their investigation totally misconstrued the process of the play. As far as I know, only I know these things.
What a fascinating story. I'm really intrigued by Mr Singer winning $2.8-million. But even better is his statement that "only I know these things."
The last time I heard a phrase like that used it was when a time traveler was interviewed on the radio. He talked about the earth a thousand years in the future. And you couldn't argue with him because only he traveled in the future.
What would really be interesting is hearing from two different time travelers, so they could debate what they saw in the future.
I'd also like to hear from someone else who used this "bug" who could actually confirm it.
Right now we only have Mr Singer traveling to the year 3221with no one else to say "but McDonald's went out of business in 2918."
I'm not sure what to think about the Rob Singer/ Double Up Bug thing. I'm not really a Vulture/Video AP so I'd be one of the LAST people to ask my thoughts on this. The only type of Vulture Aping I have ever really done is waiting for someone to lose his money on like Game 7 on Scarab and then get up and leave and I played tge remaining 3 games, but I still lost because Game 10 was was only like a $2 win when I had lost like $5. This is in response to Axelwolf who asked me my thoughts on the Rob Singer/Double up bug. ;)
Please for Gods sake, close your fucking mouth...there’s purses that need to be ripped offQuote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
You don't have to understand the glitch itself, you just need to understand that it was a very rare situation and very few people knew about it at the time. Prior to Rob claiming he played it there was only two guys that were known to have played it or ever claimed to have played it, that I'm aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
We just need to know if you believe Rob himself played this rare double up bug glitch and made over $1000000 or if you think he is selling us a yarn. It's important we know what you think the truth is.
Alan you're making a bigger obvious fool of yourself with those dumb comments. You showed irritation in your PM to axel and you're showing the same here--and about the same thing. Do you ever check things before posting?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewG