Professional Sportsbetting

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by redietz

You guys are a trip. Sports betting has, for decades, been a much larger enterprise than all of the various AP angled nonsense on this forum combined. Do you really believe over the last 60 years that multi-millionaires haven't been hiring the best programmers to data mine every sport for every correlation on the planet, to run simulations out the wazoo, to hire math experts from all fields -- logistics, probability, calculus, and programming -- in attempts to solve each sport?

I mean, to quote Wesley Snipes in the movie Dolemite, what planet are you from? There have been shingles hung claiming to have attacked sports betting from every cutting-edge angle with whatever was available at that point in time, and it's been going on for 60 years.

This ain't card counting.

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Thanks for confirming that math is used in sports betting. If AP's, as you say, don't have what it takes to make it in sports betting, could you explain to us why journalists have the right background to be excellent professional sports bettors?

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When interviewed in the past as to why I've been able to win betting college football, I have always given the same answer as to what I'd suggest is necessary (but not sufficient). A degree in journalism is not one of the requirements.

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But you sneer at the thought that AP's can transition to be professional sportsbettors. Your background is journalism. So why are journalists able to transition to sportsbetting but not AP's?

The list is getting longer

Professional Sportsbettors that use a mathematical approach:

Frank B.
Spanky
Porter
Capt. Jack Andrews
Steve Fezzik
Mathew Buchalter

Professional Sportsbettors appearing in this thread that don't use a mathematical approach:

Bob Dietz

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The list is getting longer

Professional Sportsbettors that use a mathematical approach:

Frank B.
Spanky
Porter
Capt. Jack Andrews
Steve Fezzik
Mathew Buchalter

Professional Sportsbettors appearing in this thread that don't use a mathematical approach:

Bob Dietz

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Mickey, you don't know what you're talking about. That's the bottom line. You haven't even defined "mathematical approach." You have no idea what I do or how I do it.

Frankly, I have more monitored validated results than all of these put together with the exception of Fezzik. Well, that's not true, either. Throw Fezzik in there also. I have more monitored, validated results than all of these guys combined. And I can tell you, IF Fezzik defines himself as a "professional sports bettor," and that's an IF, he's not going to do it when he's in certain company.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's just more evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

You have no idea what's been done historically in sports betting, you have no documented long-term results for these guys, and you don't even know what or how Fezzik defines himself. You don't know what I do or how I do it, or if what I do has changed over time.

You probably don't realize that, say, 30 years ago, I would have been considered at the forefront of using a "mathematical approach," depending on how you define "mathematical approach," which obviously could be defined about a thousand different ways. And I haven't much changed what I do. LOL. But now mickey friggin' crimm, in his complete ignorance and lack of defining terms, decides I don't use a "mathematical approach" because I debunk the use of "EV" jargon.

There are people who have been running data mining programs for sports 24/7 going back decades. There are people who have sent their children to college to take programming with the primary purpose being to apply that programming to sports betting (a la certain entrepreneurs sending folks to law school).

You just don't know anything about sports betting. It's silly for someone like me to engage you on the subject. Can you imagine me telling you how what you do machine gambling is wrong?

Mickey, you are completely and utterly out of your depth. It is the ultimate hubris to just presume/assume you have any handle on sports betting. It would be like any civilian deciding they know your machine gambling and telling you about it.

You have no handle on any of it.

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Originally Posted by redietz

certain company

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LOL..mickey's got this flake all twisted up now, babbling and repeating himself, and pulling a new 30 year-old self-accolade out of his silly fedora.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by redietz

certain company

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Mickey's got this flake all twisted up now.

Maybe this was tewlj's brother, using ditz's account?

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Coach, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, well, nothing new for you.

I think the fascinating part of this is the old valedictorian, Merit Scholar, 50-years-sports-betting-experience, high profile public competitions, gave paper at National Conference on Gambling and Risk Taking, published op-ed versus PSU President Graham Spanier's sports betting bill, Who's Who in Sports Gambling, dumbest-person-in-his-crew guy doesn't deign to tell the former hobo, alcoholic machine pro about machine gambling. But the former hobo, alcoholic machine pro feels comfortable telling the sports guy that he's wrong.

I guess hobo hubris is a real thing.

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Originally Posted by JSTAT

Mickey Crimm on Gambling With an Edge. The YouTube version is better than the LV Advisor site https://youtu.be/zcD6Q_0_9Gc

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Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.

Oh wow I didn't realize Redietz was a Merit Scholar. That changes everything!

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Originally Posted by redietz

I think the fascinating part of this is the old valedictorian, Merit Scholar

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Your resume above is from another century, another millennium.

Current available info is that you're a deadbeat.

The fascinating part is that you're 65 years old, and still bragging about your PSAT scores...tests you took when you were 14 years old.

What's up with that? It's more bewildering than fascinating.

Get a grip, old man...get your Ritalin refilled, put your tin cup out if you're still broke and medicare won't cover it.

I've never seen a forum poster so pitiful.

https://igamingnext.com/news/draftki...bonus-hunters/

Redietz please ridicule this guy who uses the word sharp and also talks about limiting them. Clearly a fool who doesn't know what he is talking about.

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Originally Posted by PositiveVariance

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Originally Posted by JSTAT

Mickey Crimm on Gambling With an Edge. The YouTube version is better than the LV Advisor site https://youtu.be/zcD6Q_0_9Gc

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Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.

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Like mickey, Dancer doesn't give a snot about my VP hit because they are both successful at what they do, and unlike unsuccessful people, they aren't wounded or concerned about what others do, and they don't need to fabricate conspiracy theories--only to see them totally debunked in utter shame.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by PositiveVariance

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Originally Posted by JSTAT

Mickey Crimm on Gambling With an Edge. The YouTube version is better than the LV Advisor site https://youtu.be/zcD6Q_0_9Gc

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Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.

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Like mickey, Dancer doesn't give a snot about my VP hit because they are both successful at what they do, and unlike unsuccessful people, they aren't wounded or concerned about what others do, and they don't need to fabricate conspiracy theories--only to see them totally debunked in utter shame.

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The 180 you have done towards Mickey AND Dancer is fascinating Rob.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

The 180 you have done towards Mickey AND Dancer is fascinating Rob.

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I read that he was either pissed at or jealous of Bob Dancer being popular back in the day so he deliberately chose to adopt the last name "Singer" just to fuck with him.

Get it?

Dancer ... Singer ..

ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.

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Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

Seriously. hypocritically pathetic.

It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.

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Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

Seriously. hypothetically pathetic.

It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.

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Mickey had been reasonable to Redietz. Redietz just can't respond to anything of substance. Redietz opened the door and Mickey just tellin' the truth. Mickey has come far far further in life than Redietz. All the shit Redietz talks about is in Mickey's past. However, the $500 overdue tax bill on Redietz's house is not in the past.

You figure it out.

Actually, LMAO, when Redietz talks about himself it is also all in the past... HMMMMMMM

Redietz, how did you specify your ROI for your investors without the concept of EV? Simple question.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.

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Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

Seriously. hypothetically pathetic.

It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.

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Mickey had been reasonable to Redietz. Redietz just can't respond to anything of substance. Redietz opened the door and Mickey just tellin' the truth. Mickey has come far far further in life than Redietz. All the shit Redietz talks about is in Mickey's past. However, the $500 overdue tax bill on Redietz's house is not in the past.

You figure it out.

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I have figured it out! Everything about this forum is a pissing contest between insecure adults stuck with a 3rd grade mentality. It really is dude.

I now see some inconsistencies and things that either I didn't realize or now don't make sense in some of redietz claims and stories. I also didn't like him putting down card counters out of the blue, the other day, when the discussion had nothing to do with any card counters nor was he arguing with card counters. But that doesn't mean you have to attack his house as a decrepit shack. We have all seen the pictures. It is a nice enough house, especially for a single man and even a couple before redietz's wife passed.

When people can't make their arguments and points without just flat out lying and attacking things like his house or family members, then they are just being dishonest. It has been occurring with me for several years now from everything from attacking family members to now attacking the place that I live, an upscale highrise condo a block from the strip. People have looked into it and KNOW I live there and now call it a slum. Add in nonsenses about male prostitution. Before that it was that I worked at a burger joint.

Seriously, how old are you people? If you have questions or a point or an argument to make, make it, but do it honestly without all this lying. This is just downright pathetic.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

Seriously. hypothetically pathetic.

It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.

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Mickey had been reasonable to Redietz. Redietz just can't respond to anything of substance. Redietz opened the door and Mickey just tellin' the truth. Mickey has come far far further in life than Redietz. All the shit Redietz talks about is in Mickey's past. However, the $500 overdue tax bill on Redietz's house is not in the past.

You figure it out.

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I have figured it out! Everything about this forum is a pissing contest between insecure adults stuck with a 3rd grade mentality. It really is dude.

I now see some inconsistencies and things that either I didn't realize or now don't make sense in some of redietz claims and stories. I also didn't like him putting down card counters out of the blue, the other day, when the discussion had nothing to do with any card counters nor was he arguing with card counters. But that doesn't mean you have to attack his house as a decrepit shack. We have all seen the pictures. It is a nice enough house, especially for a single man and even a couple before redietz's wife passed.

When people can't make their arguments and points without just flat out lying and attacking things like his house or family members, then they are just being dishonest. It has been occurring with me for several years now from everything from attacking family members to now attacking the place that I live, an upscale highrise condo a block from the strip. People have looked into it and KNOW I live there and now call it a slum. Add in nonsenses about male prostitution.

Seriously, how old are you people? If you have questions or a point or an argument to make, make it but do it honestly without all this lying. This is just downright pathetic.

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Insecure? What are you babbling on about. 2 people on this board know who I am and I came across Mickey once in a casino. We're anonymous so there is little to prove. It has nothing to do with insecurity, at least for most of us. Pretty sure that is projection coming from you given your need to constantly prove yourself and your story. Is that not insecurity? Then why the fuck do it??!?!?

You just don't get it. You never will. Lots of us are having fun although it does get a bit serious. (tableplay and myself for instance but the wedgy victimization should be a clear joke to anyone not far out on the spectrum. Still plenty of humor). A bit of a rugged crew.

You are a drama queen. You have to have attention. I like to argue and troll. Mickey is similar. Singer loves to troll and especially you. Monet likes to complain about the powers that be.

This is why we all come here, to be that part of ourselves that you can't be without free speech.

Clearly not the behavior of particularly normal men but for the most part we're laughing about it all. You and Redietz are not. You both take yourselves way too seriously and TBH don't belong on this forum. I've caught you lying as have others. You just ignore it when called on it and you're not doing it to be funny.

My guess is plenty of people who lurk also read this forum for the lolz.

Give us a fuckin' break.

IMO the best part of it all is the average age of the active posters is probably over 50 and yet they still act like 3rd graders !! That's not a bad thing.

BTW Mickey. Great GWAE episode. Always worth listening and thanks to whomever posted the first link or I would have missed it.

Now the question is.. will Redietz go on GWAE or be a coward? Or will he insult Dancer and that other guy in attempt to invalidate them and validate his own hiding in the bushes.

All Redietz had to do was not be so damn condescending to pretty much every active poster on this board. Whether card counting or other APing. I haven't read other sites with regularity but it has become clear as day why Redietz constantly catches so much shit. Seems like a nice guy at first....

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Clearly not the behavior of particularly normal men.

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No shit, sherlock!

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

IMO the best part of it all is the average age of the active posters is probably over 50 and yet they still act like 3rd graders !! That's not a bad thing.

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No! it is a bad thing. Grow the fuck up and act like civilized adults. If all you do is lie and put people down to somehow make yourself feel better, there is something seriously wrong.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Clearly not the behavior of particularly normal men.

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No shit, sherlock!

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

IMO the best part of it all is the average age of the active posters is probably over 50 and yet they still act like 3rd graders !! That's not a bad thing.

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No! it is a bad thing. Grow the fuck up and act like civilized adults. If all you do is lie and put people down to somehow make yourself feel better, there is something seriously wrong.

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Let me ask you a question. Who is more fucked up - the guy who complains about a forum incessantly, gets picked on and whines, yet still participates or people who all do the same thing to each other for the shits n giggles?

Being normal isn't exactly a great thing. It means so little. Plenty of normal people are sheep. Just ask Monet. I'm happy to not have been normal and led a bullshit corporate 9-5 job buying endless shit to try and justify how I spent my life.

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Originally Posted by PositiveVariance

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Originally Posted by JSTAT

Mickey Crimm on Gambling With an Edge. The YouTube version is better than the LV Advisor site https://youtu.be/zcD6Q_0_9Gc

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Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.

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Thanks, I had fun.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by PositiveVariance

Nice podcast Mickey. I have enjoyed all your podcast on GWAE.

I wonder why Richard Munchkins left your name out of the title of your YouTube video? He only put it in the description. Is Mickey Crimm going incognito?

Oh, and your shout-out to Vegas Casino Talk was great. Better yet, it was great when you calimed Rob Singer as your "Bestie" lol (I was hoping Bob Dancer would respond, but instead he went to the next topic). Maybe he is jealous of the 7 figure Video Poker hit? 35:40 mark

But seriously Mickey, All around a good listen.

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Like mickey, Dancer doesn't give a snot about my VP hit because they are both successful at what they do, and unlike unsuccessful people, they aren't wounded or concerned about what others do, and they don't need to fabricate conspiracy theories--only to see them totally debunked in utter shame.

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The 180 you have done towards Mickey AND Dancer is fascinating Rob.

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Soon, I'll have kew sipping warm mother's milk out of redietz' loafers....kew will then be able to count four tables and a chair, while red finally uses his calculator to count sheep.

It's da ULTIMATE!

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.

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Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

Seriously. hypocritically pathetic.

It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.

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Once again you're wrong Kew. Jbjb has always been an asshole along with you're undefeatable nemesis.

[QUOTE=redietz;155995]

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The list is getting longer

Professional Sportsbettors that use a mathematical approach:

Frank B.
Spanky
Porter
Capt. Jack Andrews
Steve Fezzik
Mathew Buchalter

Professional Sportsbettors appearing in this thread that don't use a mathematical approach:

Bob Dietz

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Mickey, you don't know what you're talking about. That's the bottom line. You haven't even defined "mathematical approach." You have no idea what I do or how I do it.

DON'T KNOW ANYTHING? GO FUCK YOURSELF, LOSER. MATHEMATICAL APPROACH? YOUR HERO, WALTERS, IS NOT A HANDICAPPER. HE'S A PROFESSIONAL SPORTSBETTOR. HE'S GOOD AT GETTING THE BETS IN. THAT'S IT. THE COMPUTER GROUP DID DIGITAL ANALYSIS AND TOLD HIM WHERE THE LINES SHOULD BE. IF THE GROUP SAID THE LINE SHOULD BE -3 THEN WALTERS LOOKED TO GET THE FAVORITE AT LESS THAN -3 OR THE DOG AT MORE THAN +3. THAT'S ALL THIS SHIT TAKES, DITZ. YOU AIN'T NO ROCKET SCIENTIST. IN THE BOOK, THE SMART MONEY, WALTERS SAID A HALF POINT WAS WORTH ABOUT 7%. LOOKS LIKE A MATHEMATICAL APPROACH TO ME.

Frankly, I have more monitored validated results than all of these put together with the exception of Fezzik. Well, that's not true, either. Throw Fezzik in there also. I have more monitored, validated results than all of these guys combined. And I can tell you, IF Fezzik defines himself as a "professional sports bettor," and that's an IF, he's not going to do it when he's in certain company.

SO YOU ARE TELLING US YOU KNOW THE RECORDS OF ALL THESE OTHER SPORTS BETTORS? AS BIDEN WOULD SAY, C'MON MAN! AT ONE TIME YOU WERE PRAISING FEZZIK. NOW, YOU ARE THROWING HIM UNDER THE BUS. FLIP, FLOP, FLIP, FLOP.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's just more evidence you don't know what you're talking about.You have no idea what's been done historically in sports betting, you have no documented long-term results for these guys, and you don't even know what or how Fezzik defines himself. You don't know what I do or how I do it, or if what I do has changed over time.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY LONG TERM DOCUMENTED STATS FROM YOU EITHER. WHY SHOULD I TAKE YOUR WORD FOR EVERYTHING AND NOT THEIRS? GUESS WHAT, DITZ. WHEN YOU STARTED YOU HAD NO LONG TERM STATS EITHER. TRACKING RESULTS IS A "MATHEMATICAL APPROACH." HOW MANY YEARS OF TRACKING STATS DID IT TAKE YOU TO CONSIDER IT THE LONG TERM?

IMAGINE TRYING TO LEARN SOMETHING BUT THERE IS A PERSON REPEATEDLY TELLING YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT IT. IS THAT WHAT THEY DID TO YOU WHEN YOU WERE A NOVICE? YOU GOT HAZED? SO NOW YOU ARE HAZING?

You probably don't realize that, say, 30 years ago, I would have been considered at the forefront of using a "mathematical approach," depending on how you define "mathematical approach," which obviously could be defined about a thousand different ways. And I haven't much changed what I do. LOL. But now mickey friggin' crimm, in his complete ignorance and lack of defining terms, decides I don't use a "mathematical approach" because I debunk the use of "EV" jargon.

THE ONLY PLACE YOU HAVE DEBUNKED EV IS IN YOUR MIND. EVERYONE ELSE IN SPORTS BETTING USES THE CONCEPT. YOU ARE IN A MINORITY OF ONE.

There are people who have been running data mining programs for sports 24/7 going back decades. There are people who have sent their children to college to take programming with the primary purpose being to apply that programming to sports betting (a la certain entrepreneurs sending folks to law school).

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU. ONLY A DITZ, pardon the pun, WOULD THINK COMPUTERS CAN SOLVE EVERYTHING BUT SPORTS BETTING.

You just don't know anything about sports betting. It's silly for someone like me to engage you on the subject. Can you imagine me telling you how what you do machine gambling is wrong? Mickey, you are completely and utterly out of your depth. It is the ultimate hubris to just presume/assume you have any handle on sports betting. It would be like any civilian deciding they know your machine gambling and telling you about it. You have no handle on any of it.

MANY YEARS AGO I TOLD SOMEONE I WOULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BEAT CASINO GAMBLING. HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID "THEY'RE GOING TO BREAK YOUR HEART." DID I HEED HIS WARNING? NO. HE WAS WRONG....AND SO ARE YOU. I CAN DO ANYTHING I PUT MY MIND TO. YOU HAVE NO SAY SO IN IT.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

ROTFLMAO! Ditz is triggered again and thinks browbeating will do the trick. All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit. And you are the only one impressed by your so called track record in sportsbetting that you keep super secret, and has never lifted you out of living in a decrepit shack that you can't pay the property tax on in Hicktown, Tennessee. Yep, sportsbetting has just done wonders for you.

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Seriously mickeycrimm? You wrote "All you did, ditz, was show everyone just how flustered you are. Gotta call names. Put every body down. That's 2nd grade schoolyard shit"

And then the a sentence later you call his house "a decrepit shack" and refer to "hicktown".

Seriously. hypocritically pathetic.

It isn't 2nd grade schoolyard shit, it is 3rd grade schoolyard shit. I realize that for some of you, 3rd grade was the best 2-3 years of your life, but grow the fuck up all ready. Go back and read the forum 6-7 years ago where Rob was the only asshole on this forum and look at it now. Rob Singer has pulled everyone on this forum down to his level.

---

Once again you're wrong Kew. Jbjb has always been an asshole along with you're undefeatable nemesis.

---

And I'm the biggest asshole of the bunch!

I hate to keep explaining how mickey doesn't know what he's talking about, but here's some examples.

When I say "monitored results," that means monitored by a third party. As in publicly available after being monitored. I've been monitored my entire life. In the Wise Guys, for example, it was two games a week every week of every football season for 30 years. In the PlayBook newsletter, that meant selections in print on newsstands for more than a decade. When I mention the Bally's College Contest, that was 10 games a week every week for two football seasons. I was monitored by Buffalo's Satellite Cable Handicap Show (I have a VCR tape somewhere here), the Handicappers' Report Card publication (weekly), The Sports Monitor, "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and in print in a weekly newspaper column. Plus various other contests, including the publicly available one wherein I won 17 ATS in a row, but didn't come close to winning the contest.

So when I say I was monitored more than all the people mickey mentions combined, I'm talking 40 years of multiple monitors.

Now when I say Fezzik might have been the greatest NFL contest player of all time, that is arguably correct and very specific. But he was monitored in that way for just the NFL and for a limited number of seasons and just sides and just five plays a week in terms of those particular contests, mainly the SuperBook Contest.

Thus, in comparison, I'd estimate that I was monitored more than Fezzik and everyone mickey mentioned combined. It's possible I'm wrong, but it would be at least close -- me versus everyone combined. That's my "personal EV" estimate. LOL.

In fact, when I was 14 I kept records of me versus the AP versus the UPI versus GamePlan Magazines power ratings. I actually have those old notebooks with the predictions and results in them.

I also have email records with my partners dating back more than 10 years. Every play has been recorded and copied and obviously these are third-party folks who can verify all of the plays. They have all gotten the same plays unless they have opted out of certain subsets (such as opting out of futures or pure middles shooting, which requires much more money). But, since I'm a nice guy, I'm not counting those emails as "being monitored."

I didn't read all of mickey's screed, but in summary, to use his own argument regarding journalism degrees and all that:

What qualifies a trained hobo to be able to evaluate sports bettors?
What qualifies a slot player to be able to evaluate sports bettors?

Mickey has attempted the classic straw man argument. I debunk "EV" as he uses the term for sports betting. His conclusion is therefore I don't use math. That is what is called a non sequitur.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but despite my math ignorance, I did manage a 740 on the old SATs in math. And one of my compadres did get a perfect score. And we aren't even the probability guys on this little crew. So yeah, some of us manage to squeeze in a little math here and again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

In fact, when I was 14 I kept records of me versus the AP versus the UPI versus GamePlan Magazines power ratings. I actually have those old notebooks with the predictions and results in them.

---

Redietz is a new kind of results oriented. He's been obsessed with his ranking things and not $$ since age 14. A clearer picture has yet again emerged.

Who cares about math when all you do is play contests.

I started this thread to learn something about sports bettors and how they operate. It was clear that redietz was not going to give any support to someone trying to learn. He's just gotten more and more intransigent. He belittles the pros that have been highlighted so far...and I think he will continue to do that. So I think the best thing to do is just ignore his caustic remarks and continue to take a look at these guys that do it professionally.

Here's a pretty good interview of Bill Krakomberger. One of the first things he says is he loves betting dogs and stealing a half point when doing so. Sounds mathematical to me. He also says he don't watch the games. So he is a sports bettor, not a handicapper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=128ykZ_Yn-w

There's a thread on WOV where a few members are discussing this.
https://www.reddit.com/user/HSRiddles/

I believe he is running at 68% on his pucks of the day across multiple sports. He also has stats for other non-picks of the day.


I slightly disagree with 2 of the games as it seemed almost impossible to get the line he suggested. Also, he had put up a pick of the day early, but he said wasn't up yet and he wasn't sure if it would be so he added another POTD, however, I got down on his original POTD. I don't know exactly how he is coming up with his picks, something to do with some algorithm that scraps data from the internet and then he possibly adds his own personal crap. I'm, sure there are people here who understand algorithms, data scraping, etc.

I dont know if he has an advantage or not. I didn't really care since I need to put in action for sports bonus running anyways. I would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

There's a thread on WOV where a few members are discussing this.
https://www.reddit.com/user/HSRiddles/

I believe he is running at 68% on his pucks of the day across multiple sports. He also has stats for other non-picks of the day.


I slightly disagree with 2 of the games as it seemed almost impossible to get the line he suggested. Also, he had put up a pick of the day early, but he said wasn't up yet and he wasn't sure if it would be so he added another POTD, however, I got down on his original POTD. I don't know exactly how he is coming up with his picks, something to do with some algorithm that scraps data from the internet and then he possibly adds his own personal crap. I'm, sure there are people here who understand algorithms, data scraping, etc.

I dont know if he has an advantage or not. I didn't really care since I need to put in action for sports bonus running anyways. I would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

---

Running 68% on his hockey PUCKS is quite impressive !

Here's an interesting article about ten sports bettors that got rich. Interesting that practically all of them had math backgrounds and developed statistical models to make their bets:

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal...ng_473535.html

.


this link (at the bottom of the page) lists Rob Vinciletti as one of the top 5 money earners in NFL handicapping - the money earned is pretty small so I guess it's based on his public picks in some kind of contest each pick for a set amount - 1,752 games were monitored


anyway, it gives his % as 53.9%


Mike Shackleford showed that with about 2,100 games he tracked 53.75% doing nothing other than betting the away underdog


hilarious - to me anyway


https://capperreviews.com/steve-fezz...r-of-all-time/


https://wizardofodds.com/games/sports-betting/nfl/


.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

.


this link (at the bottom of the page) lists Rob Vinciletti as one of the top 5 money earners in NFL handicapping - the money earned is pretty small so I guess it's based on his public picks in some kind of contest each pick for a set amount - 1,752 games were monitored


anyway, it gives his % as 53.9%


Mike Shackleford showed that with about 2,100 games he tracked 53.75% doing nothing other than betting the away underdog


hilarious - to me anyway


https://capperreviews.com/steve-fezz...r-of-all-time/


https://wizardofodds.com/games/sports-betting/nfl/


.

---

Interesting stuff. Shacks stats show the lines overall are pretty sharp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

.


this link (at the bottom of the page) lists Rob Vinciletti as one of the top 5 money earners in NFL handicapping - the money earned is pretty small so I guess it's based on his public picks in some kind of contest each pick for a set amount - 1,752 games were monitored


anyway, it gives his % as 53.9%


Mike Shackleford showed that with about 2,100 games he tracked 53.75% doing nothing other than betting the away underdog


hilarious - to me anyway


https://capperreviews.com/steve-fezz...r-of-all-time/


https://wizardofodds.com/games/sports-betting/nfl/


.

---

Interesting stuff. Shacks stats show the lines overall are pretty sharp.

---

Rusty is right on most things involving mathematics. Little else.

So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

Here's the 18 minute video:

https://youtu.be/KU_UXxkdkKk

You are exactly correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

Here's the 18 minute video:

https://youtu.be/KU_UXxkdkKk

---

There's no real need for an option, It's +EV. No handicapping is needed.

I was doing that in the 'late 90s- early 2000s, usually when the sports books were doing something extra special like a drawing or whatever. We did it a few years back.

The problem is the sportsbooks don't like it, they get nasty and it's hard to get in action, The books got nasty in a few places, and I even got backed off.

Especially after a few of those parlays come in because there's a bunch of sharps all betting it, not just you. IIRC they wouldn't let you bet it on the kiosks after a while.

Im sure dedicated pros figure out how to get more action in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

Here's the 18 minute video:

https://youtu.be/KU_UXxkdkKk

---

Good Lord, man. What Fezzik's doing was being done 40 years ago. On this forum, I actually laid this out years ago.

I detailed my issues with The Stardust manager at the time, who followed me from window to window to make sure the $50 parlay card limit was enforced regarding me. And I was just doing it to kill time because I had to hold my seat for two to three hours before Saturday kickoffs. There were crews who went Boyd to Boyd to max bet the cards with various lineups. I wasn't trying to clobber anyone; I was (as the guy with the bottles on his fingers says in The Warriors) just having a good time.

I described all of this years ago on this very forum.

You guys are wild. Why do you think, when I put down parlay betting, I carefully describe off-the-board parlay betting as the problem with the use of parlay calculators? And I make exception for parlay card, frozen number, time-staggered betting?

Mickey, if you haven't been paying attention, it's really not my responsibility.

This is why asking questions of somebody who knows what they're talking about tends to be a positive thing.

And in case you haven't figured it out, choosing games that are staggered in time provides the maximum flexibility. You can hedge or middle shoot with impunity while knowing your flow chart situation.

This is retro stuff. It was being hammered to the max 40 years ago. This is what I mean when I say there was an entire massive sports gambling culture that you folks really have no sense of, and that culture has been doing just about everything you describe for decades and decades. You just haven't been paying attention. You think it's some moderne AP shit. LOL. You're behind the times, not ahead, guys.

God, and the talk of trends (blah, blah, 53.8% betting road dogs by Shackleford for such-and-such). After the fact trends are, well, people have been using programs to data mine trends for 30-some years. Programs were running 24/7 for every sport decades ago. The national newsletter I was in for years, PlayBook, was famous for highlighting trends.

McCusker referred to handicappers who relied heavily on such things as "trendsvestites." He coined that phrase in the 80's.

What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle. I also said that as sports betting spread, alleged "APs" were going to try to claim magical expertise and new techniques. What's they're doing, however, is largely old hat, given some super-powers via transient promotions and bonuses. The stuff is old as the hills, and it was old school handicappers who originally exploited it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

Here's the 18 minute video:

https://youtu.be/KU_UXxkdkKk

---

Good Lord, man. What Fezzik's doing was being done 40 years ago. On this forum, I actually laid this out years ago.

I detailed my issues with The Stardust manager at the time, who followed me from window to window to make sure the $50 parlay card limit was enforced regarding me. And I was just doing it to kill time because I had to hold my seat for two to three hours before Saturday kickoffs. There were crews who went Boyd to Boyd to max bet the cards with various lineups. I wasn't trying to clobber anyone; I was (as the guy with the bottles on his fingers says in The Warriors) just having a good time.

I described all of this years ago on this very forum.

You guys are wild. Why do you think, when I put down parlay betting, I carefully describe off-the-board parlay betting as the problem with the use of parlay calculators? And I make exception for parlay card, frozen number, time-staggered betting?

Mickey, if you haven't been paying attention, it's really not my responsibility.

This is why asking questions of somebody who knows what they're talking about tends to be a positive thing.

And in case you haven't figured it out, choosing games that are staggered in time provides the maximum flexibility. You can hedge or middle shoot with impunity while knowing your flow chart situation.

This is retro stuff. It was being hammered to the max 40 years ago. This is what I mean when I say there was an entire massive sports gambling culture that you folks really have no sense of, and that culture has been doing just about everything you describe for decades and decades. You just haven't been paying attention. You think it's some moderne AP shit. LOL. You're behind the times, not ahead, guys.

God, and the talk of trends (blah, blah, 53.8% betting road dogs by Shackleford for such-and-such). After the fact trends are, well, people have been using programs to data mine trends for 30-some years. Programs were running 24/7 for every sport decades ago. The national newsletter I was in for years, PlayBook, was famous for highlighting trends.

McCusker referred to handicappers who relied heavily on such things as "trendsvestites." He coined that phrase in the 80's.

What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle. I also said that as sports betting spread, alleged "APs" were going to try to claim magical expertise and new techniques. What's they're doing, however, is largely old hat, given some super-powers via transient promotions and bonuses. The stuff is old as the hills, and it was old school handicappers who originally exploited it.

---

I’m in hickory NC then off to Bristol come learn something Fraudulent mob guy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seedvalue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

So we have this thread over in the sports section started by redietz a couple of years ago on "do not bet parlays." Here's the link:

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...ot-Bet-Parlays

I just found this 18 minute video of VSIN interviewing South Pointe sportsbook manager Chris Andrews. Andrews explains that his reason for banning Fezzik was he was always trying to get in more action on parlay cards that Andrews wanted.

Andrews talked about Fezzik betting parlay cards, not parlays off the board. And he referred to "dead numbers." I'm not sure but I think it means numbers that don't move. The numbers on parlay cards don't move.

I'm trying to guess what Fezzik was doing. In the books I'm familiar with the football parlay cards come out on Wednesday. I've been told this is so the numbers get hammered into place before the cards are printed. But it's 3 or 4 days to game time depending on college or NFL. Plenty of time for lines to move on the board. I think Fezzik is exploiting the line moves on the board. Similar to steam betting. If the line was -3 on Wednesday but moves to -4 a couple days later I think he takes the -3 on the parlay card. Something like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

Here's the 18 minute video:

https://youtu.be/KU_UXxkdkKk

---

Good Lord, man. What Fezzik's doing was being done 40 years ago. On this forum, I actually laid this out years ago.

I detailed my issues with The Stardust manager at the time, who followed me from window to window to make sure the $50 parlay card limit was enforced regarding me. And I was just doing it to kill time because I had to hold my seat for two to three hours before Saturday kickoffs. There were crews who went Boyd to Boyd to max bet the cards with various lineups. I wasn't trying to clobber anyone; I was (as the guy with the bottles on his fingers says in The Warriors) just having a good time.

I described all of this years ago on this very forum.

You guys are wild. Why do you think, when I put down parlay betting, I carefully describe off-the-board parlay betting as the problem with the use of parlay calculators? And I make exception for parlay card, frozen number, time-staggered betting?

Mickey, if you haven't been paying attention, it's really not my responsibility.

This is why asking questions of somebody who knows what they're talking about tends to be a positive thing.

And in case you haven't figured it out, choosing games that are staggered in time provides the maximum flexibility. You can hedge or middle shoot with impunity while knowing your flow chart situation.

This is retro stuff. It was being hammered to the max 40 years ago. This is what I mean when I say there was an entire massive sports gambling culture that you folks really have no sense of, and that culture has been doing just about everything you describe for decades and decades. You just haven't been paying attention. You think it's some moderne AP shit. LOL. You're behind the times, not ahead, guys.

God, and the talk of trends (blah, blah, 53.8% betting road dogs by Shackleford for such-and-such). After the fact trends are, well, people have been using programs to data mine trends for 30-some years. Programs were running 24/7 for every sport decades ago. The national newsletter I was in for years, PlayBook, was famous for highlighting trends.

McCusker referred to handicappers who relied heavily on such things as "trendsvestites." He coined that phrase in the 80's.

What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle. I also said that as sports betting spread, alleged "APs" were going to try to claim magical expertise and new techniques. What's they're doing, however, is largely old hat, given some super-powers via transient promotions and bonuses. The stuff is old as the hills, and it was old school handicappers who originally exploited it.

---

I’m in hickory NC then off to Bristol come learn something Fraudulent mob guy

---

Just tell me where and when in Bristol. If it doesn't overlap with the XFL, I'll wander on up. If I autograph a book, do you want "To Seed" or "To Mr. Value?"

I'm no mob guy. I've just been around long enough to have seen a few things. Always helpful to have stayed next to the Stardust during the Lefty Rosenthal days. I lived three months during football season at the Convention Center Lodge for two or three years, and also spent two seasons directly behind the Stardust at the massive Budget Suites, which you would have appreciated as half the residents were girls working the clubs on Industrial. The pool and the workout room were quite a sight.

Good Lord, man! Ditz was doing that 40 years ago. The nerve of anyone to bring it up. Aw, fuck. Get a life, people.

Ditz, you just don't get that some people around here are trying to learn something about sports betting. And you just want to shit all over it. Get over yourself.

You thinking that I should have been "paying attention" to everything you wrote years ago is arrogance personified. Fuck you, bitch.

Your statement here: "What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle."

"Nouveau" means new or modern. First, Ditz, no one hangs on your every word. I wasn't reading all the shit you have written all these years. But everyone stand up and pay attention when Ditz speaks.

Ditz, I'll gladly pay you $1000 if you can find any words I wrote that said this dead numbers on parlay cards thing was some new AP angle. It's an angle I just discovered. I said nothing about it being some new angle and you know that. You misrepresented the whole thing. That makes you a fucking liar.

I'll be waiting for you to post up them words and get the 1K. tick....tock....tick....tock....tick....tock....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I lived three months during football season at the Convention Center Lodge for two or three years, and also spent two seasons directly behind the Stardust at the massive Budget Suites, which you would have appreciated as half the residents were girls working the clubs on Industrial. The pool and the workout room were quite a sight.

---

I lived at Budget Suites behind the Stardust too. What I liked about the spot was there was no neighborhood around it so no crazies around at night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Good Lord, man! Ditz was doing that 40 years ago. The nerve of anyone to bring it up. Aw, fuck. Get a life, people.

Ditz, you just don't get that some people around here are trying to learn something about sports betting. And you just want to shit all over it. Get over yourself.

You thinking that I should have been "paying attention" to everything you wrote years ago is arrogance personified. Fuck you, bitch.

Your statement here: "What annoys me most is that I told that Stardust parlay card story multiple times on this forum spread over years, and now it's being presented as evidence of some nouveau AP angle."

"Nouveau" means new or modern. First, Ditz, no one hangs on your every word. I wasn't reading all the shit you have written all these years. But everyone stand up and pay attention when Ditz speaks.

Ditz, I'll gladly pay you $1000 if you can find any words I wrote that said this dead numbers on parlay cards thing was some new AP angle. It's an angle I just discovered. I said nothing about it being some new angle and you know that. You misrepresented the whole thing. That makes you a fucking liar.

I'll be waiting for you to post up them words and get the 1K. tick....tock....tick....tock....tick....tock....

---

See, the thing about the title of the thread, "Professional sportsbetting," is that if you're a professional sports bettor, you know everything I just posted, and you knew it decades ago.

Now, if the title of the thread were, "Amateur sportsbetting" or "Amateur sports bettors discuss professional sportsbetting," then the content in the thread makes sense.

Kind of like if I started a thread "Professional machine play" and then babbled about stuff from 40 years ago while wondering out loud why someone was doing something that was explained by the fact that everyone had been doing it for 40 years.

So I humbly suggest, given the content of the thread and the posters, that the title be changed to "Amateur sportsbetting" or "Amateur sports bettors discuss professional sportsbetting."

Have a good one.

Can you imagine if I started a "Professional Machine Playing" thread and then asked a question about 40-year-old Piggy Banking like, "I wonder if Fezzik is waiting for the bank to fill up before putting his money in the machine?"

I'd be laughed out of the AP club.

Then imagine if mickeycrimm had spelled out exactly how to play Piggy Banking multiple times going back years on the forum, and I'm acting like it's all a mystery.

The thread is about professional sportsbetting so has the right title whether your cunt ass likes it or not.

I'm still waiting for you to post up those words I supposedly used to say dead numbers on parlay cards is a new angle. An easy 1K for you....tick....tock....tick....tock....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Can you imagine if I started a "Professional Machine Playing" thread and then asked a question about 40-year-old Piggy Banking like, "I wonder if Fezzik is waiting for the bank to fill up before putting his money in the machine?" Then imagine if mickeycrimm had spelled out exactly how to play Piggy Banking multiple times going back years on the forum, and I'm acting like it's all a mystery.

---

It's not a mystery to you, huh?

What was the breakeven number on the Piggy Bankin'?

What was the average number of spins it took to break the bank?

What was the average cost to spin off a play?

Remember, it's not a mystery to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Can you imagine if I started a "Professional Machine Playing" thread and then asked a question about 40-year-old Piggy Banking like, "I wonder if Fezzik is waiting for the bank to fill up before putting his money in the machine?"

I'd be laughed out of the AP club.

Then imagine if mickeycrimm had spelled out exactly how to play Piggy Banking multiple times going back years on the forum, and I'm acting like it's all a mystery.

---

This is actually some really funny shit by Ditz. Because I remember standing there, green as a greenhorn gambler can be, watching two guys work a bank of Piggy Bankin' and wondering "how high do they let the bank get before playing." I wasn't born with the knowledge. I was an amateur. But I learned thru observance.

I have 1700 followers on Twitter. I get DM's and emails all the time by amateurs trying to learn strategic machine play. I've never once said "Kid, you don't know jackshit" or "There's a whole world your ignorant ass knows nothing about" or "I was doing this shit when you were shitting yellow, kid." I treat the novices with respect because I remember once being a novice wanting to learn.

Redietz main character flaw is he doesn't remember being a novice. If you post anything up about sports betting he comes with "you don't know jackshit" and "There's a whole worrrrrrrrrld you know nothing about" and "I was doing this shit 40 yearrrrrrrrrs ago." He has no respect for anyone that is what HE used to be, an amateur. To him, anyone trying to learn is a know nothing idiot. In disrespecting people like that he disrespects himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Can you imagine if I started a "Professional Machine Playing" thread and then asked a question about 40-year-old Piggy Banking like, "I wonder if Fezzik is waiting for the bank to fill up before putting his money in the machine?"

I'd be laughed out of the AP club.

Then imagine if mickeycrimm had spelled out exactly how to play Piggy Banking multiple times going back years on the forum, and I'm acting like it's all a mystery.

---

But just like in sports, BJ, slots, and other games those types of things may only seem like "old news"

And those who think like that are oftentimes missing out on the new Piggy Banking machines they disregard. The old Piggy Banking machines were perhaps worth a few hundred a day on average so the old-school guys scoff at the new ones, meanwhile, the people keeping and advancing learning new techniques on old-school type machines make serious money.

Guys are making exponentially more on well-known Plays such as sports and slots, than guys from the past did.

Sure, oftentimes the few that get in on something from the start make a killing until the holes get plugged, but nowadays there are soo many more opportunities and soo many more casinos, it's significantly better IF you are motivated and know what you're doing.

I wish I was 22 and started in 2015 rather than starting in the 90's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I wish I was 22

---

Don't we all! Actually age 22, was my second year of blackjack play in Ac and I made $9800 or $9600, I forget. It was my single lowest income year, BUT I would redo starting from that point. :) Edit: I don't know maybe not. ;) I would love to be 22 again, but maybe not the struggling red chip card counter in AC part.

Not to hijack mickey's thread, but can anyone recommend a good sportsbook for low limit ($50-$100) baseball wagers? I would like to get away from oddsmaker who I have used for a number of years, as I had some payout difficulties with them. (Eventually got my withdrawals but it took many weeks and there was a charge for each withdrawal)

I am just looking for a creditable site that is U.S. friendly, with a good reputation, easy deposit and withdrawal. Bonus would be nice, but not priority. I don't use bitcoin, so not interested in the bitcoin sportsbooks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I wish I was 22

---

Don't we all! Actually age 22, was my second year of blackjack play in Ac and I made $9800 or $9600, I forget. It was my single lowest income year, BUT I would redo starting from that point. :) Edit: I don't know maybe not. ;) I would love to be 22 again, but maybe not the struggling red chip card counter in AC part.

Not to hijack mickey's thread, but can anyone recommend a good sportsbook for low limit ($50-$100) baseball wagers? I would like to get away from oddsmaker who I have used for a number of years, as I had some payout difficulties with them. (Eventually got my withdrawals but it took many weeks and there was a charge for each withdrawal)

I am just looking for a creditable site that is U.S. friendly, with a good reputation, easy deposit and withdrawal. Bonus would be nice, but not priority. I don't use bitcoin, so not interested in the bitcoin sportsbooks.

---

Obviously, we all wish we were younger, but that's not what I was getting at.

I just think there have actually been more lucrative plays in the last 13 years than in the previous 13. It's hard to really say for sure. I'm just not motivated to put in 12 hours a day nowadays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

I wish I was 22

---

Don't we all! Actually age 22, was my second year of blackjack play in Ac and I made $9800 or $9600, I forget. It was my single lowest income year, BUT I would redo starting from that point. :) Edit: I don't know maybe not. ;) I would love to be 22 again, but maybe not the struggling red chip card counter in AC part.

Not to hijack mickey's thread, but can anyone recommend a good sportsbook for low limit ($50-$100) baseball wagers? I would like to get away from oddsmaker who I have used for a number of years, as I had some payout difficulties with them. (Eventually got my withdrawals but it took many weeks and there was a charge for each withdrawal)

I am just looking for a creditable site that is U.S. friendly, with a good reputation, easy deposit and withdrawal. Bonus would be nice, but not priority. I don't use bitcoin, so not interested in the bitcoin sportsbooks.

---

Check your PM's, perhaps your brother delete them. I'm almost certain it was he I was communicating with now. At the time It didn't dawn on me until he asked something Im certain you would've known and I started thinking about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

I don't use bitcoin, so not interested in the bitcoin sportsbooks.

---

WHY!!

That's retarded. You give up soo much value not using BTC, up to 50% on your buy-ins. You can get a 100% using cash or 150-200% using crypto.

It's also way more convenient. Once you start using it, it's basically the same as using PayPal or something like that. You can avoid market fluctuations if that is a concern. You just trade your BTC for a stablecoin or convert the BTC into your cash wallet until needed.

.



interesting article on touts

Five Star Sports Picks is claiming 70% win rate on the NFL and college football last season

that's unheard of and the Post implies that they are fudging their numbers

their rep refused the Post request to provide a list of their picks

"99% of pick sellers are scam artists preying on the vulnerable" says Jason Scott who oversees oddsmaking at BetMGM

the other link - Betstamp - offers a free account - you can follow the picks of various picksters




https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...g-picks-touts/



https://betstamp.app/


.

.


I think Betstamp is legit
the Post article implied they were legit
you find featured users under when you click on your username - and then "Find Bettors" - it took me quite a while to find this
they show quite a few net losers
most of the winners have a small r.o.i.
very few have a high r.o.i. close to or over 10%

one guy - "bonanza bets" has an incredible 57.9% r.o.i. - he's 138-255 - he must be betting big dogs on the money line - that one is hard to believe -
but the rest of their tracking is believable

they track an interesting stat which I've never seen before which they call "CLV"
closing line value - the price a bettor got relative to the closing price

"bonanza bets" got great prices - which may help explain his ridiculous r.o.i. - maybe he was fudging on the lines he was getting


.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

.



interesting article on touts

Five Star Sports Picks is claiming 70% win rate on the NFL and college football last season

that's unheard of and the Post implies that they are fudging their numbers

their rep refused the Post request to provide a list of their picks

"99% of pick sellers are scam artists preying on the vulnerable" says Jason Scott who oversees oddsmaking at BetMGM

the other link - Betstamp - offers a free account - you can follow the picks of various picksters




https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...g-picks-touts/



https://betstamp.app/


.

---

Who's the best pure legitimate handicapper with verified stats over years with thousands of picks with obtainable lines? What % is he running at? 54% 55%, 57 %?? with the benefit of the doubt, he got a 6.5 when everywhere was actually 7.

Now you get your picks after he and all his buddies slammed all the good lines.

Now pay for those picks/services= YOU'RE FUCKED!! GG. GB.

This kind of discussion demonstrates how little handle the posters here have on what's been done in the past historically and by individuals, what's been achieved by whom, what's considered possible and probable, and how few people do what.

There is an entire culture of sports betting with a long history of who did what and you are not part of it or even dipping your toes in it. You have no knowledge of it.

So why act as if you know what you're talking about? It's not as if the "AP" culture presented on forums is some big, established culture with its own verified, documented history. The "AP" culture is very small compared to the sports betting culture. The "AP" culture has fewer verifiable facts, of course. With no third parties keeping actual tabs on people's claims. The "AP" presentation is all fairy tales and anonymous narratives

As far as sports betting goes, why act as if you know what you're talking about? Because you "know" a handful of bettors? Because you know a little math?

What a clown. Pity, put on ignore, and move on. The dude can't even pay a $500 tax bill but posts pictures of cars that aren't even his.

No one else has ever talked about the "culture" of APs. Culture as it pertains to a subset of advantage gambling is a pure Redietz construct. More fantasyland bullshit.

The bozo couldn't even beat Rob in a creative writing contest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

The bozo couldn't even beat Rob in a creative writing contest.

---

Is that what this forum is to you and a few others? See who can tell the biggest lies? That guy is the winner? No wonder this forum is what it is and no wonder more and more of these guys are coming out of the woodwork.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

You give up soo much value not using BTC, up to 50% on your buy-ins. You can get a 100% using cash or 150-200% using crypto.

---

why would the books be so generous if you use crypto____?

what do they get out of it______?

just curious______________________doesn't that make it a lot harder for them to beat the player____________?


.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

The bozo couldn't even beat Rob in a creative writing contest.

---

Is that what this forum is to you and a few others? See who can tell the biggest lies? That guy is the winner? No wonder this forum is what it is and no wonder more and more of these guys are coming out of the woodwork.

---

What do you think about redietz shitting on everything that gets posted in this thread?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

What a clown. Pity, put on ignore, and move on. The dude can't even pay a $500 tax bill but posts pictures of cars that aren't even his.

No one else has ever talked about the "culture" of APs. Culture as it pertains to a subset of advantage gambling is a pure Redietz construct. More fantasyland bullshit.

The bozo couldn't even beat Rob in a creative writing contest.

---

I'm very close to putting Ditz on ignore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

This kind of discussion demonstrates how little handle the posters here have on what's been done in the past historically and by individuals, what's been achieved by whom, what's considered possible and probable, and how few people do what.

There is an entire culture of sports betting with a long history of who did what and you are not part of it or even dipping your toes in it. You have no knowledge of it.

So why act as if you know what you're talking about? It's not as if the "AP" culture presented on forums is some big, established culture with its own verified, documented history. The "AP" culture is very small compared to the sports betting culture. The "AP" culture has fewer verifiable facts, of course. With no third parties keeping actual tabs on people's claims. The "AP" presentation is all fairy tales and anonymous narratives

As far as sports betting goes, why act as if you know what you're talking about? Because you "know" a handful of bettors? Because you know a little math?

---

Easy 1K for ya....tick....tock....tick....tock. Just put up the quote where I said the dead number thing was a new angle....tick....tock....tick....tock. You can pay your tax bill with the money....tick....tock....tick....tock. I'm waiting....tick....tock....tick....tock....

Base-uh-ball been berry berry good toooo me. Dis-uh-my bets I got so far dis yeer.

1. Astros to win AL West at -165

2. Astros best regular season record +550

3. Astros to win World Series +800

4. National League MVP Trea Turner +1100

5. Red Sox over 76.5 wins +140

6. Jacob DeGrom most strikeouts +1500

7. Orioles under 77.5 wins +130

8. Braves win NL East +150

9. Ohtani AL MVP +300

10. Aaron Judge most home runs +800

Hey, ditzmeister, dis uh profeeesonall spurts beteeeng eeeees fun fun fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

You give up soo much value not using BTC, up to 50% on your buy-ins. You can get a 100% using cash or 150-200% using crypto.

---

why would the books be so generous if you use crypto____?

what do they get out of it______?

just curious______________________doesn't that make it a lot harder for them to beat the player____________?


.

---

Yes and no. Obviously, this is all offshore joints. With BTC they don't have to pay big processing fees, no chargebacks, and other BS, so they save money on that.
They can really get punished on chargebacks. TBH I haven't even looked to see if they take CCs. I'm not sure how things like skrill work or if you can charge back/claim theft or whatever.

A 150%-200% bonus is for acquiring New players and is usually capped at $500-3k and comes with betting limits(up to $500 max, the good stuff I want to bet is oftentimes capped at $100), odds restrictions -200/+200, and wagering requirements. I have seen it as low as 3 times, but normally it's 10-15 X. You can't take long shots or bet huge, thus eliminating the ability to maximize your value in many cases. It actually ensures the sports book gets action from you(No quick deposits and cashouts). The average person flipping coins isn't going to beat the vig since they are required complete the WRs. In some instances, the Books are giving up some value, but that's just the CPA. Most people are gonna keep betting with or without bonuses. They are even going to catch some big fish who donk off on slots and whatnot.



They will frequently offer you lower percentage bonuses 20%-100% That all depends on different factors.

Not all the WRs, bonuses, and restrictions are the same in all places, it varies. Each place also had various other perks like odds boosts, rebate days, free contests, etc.

If you can simply break even on sports(just need to beat the vig, actually you don't need to beat the entire vig) you should do very well if you take the time and effort needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Base-uh-ball been berry berry good toooo me. Dis-uh-my bets I got so far dis yeer.

1. Astros to win AL West at -165

2. Astros best regular season record +550

3. Astros to win World Series +800

4. National League MVP Trea Turner +1100

5. Red Sox over 76.5 wins +140

6. Jacob DeGrom most strikeouts +1500

7. Orioles under 77.5 wins +130

8. Braves win NL East +150

9. Ohtani AL MVP +300

10. Aaron Judge most home runs +800

Hey, ditzmeister, dis uh profeeesonall spurts beteeeng eeeees fun fun fun.

---

Are they +EV? If so, why? I know zilch about baseball betting. Can you still get down?

kewlJ,

you haven't addressed my post publicly or privately regarding who I was communicating with via PM... you or your brother?

IIRC I even addressed it via PM and got crickets. Initially, I said to myself, fuck it, I don't care, but it would be nice for you to clear that up. I'm not a fan of the situation of letting someone use your account. I can't imagine you would like it if I let someone else use my account to communicate with you thinking it was me you were talking to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

kewlJ,

you haven't addressed my post publicly or privately regarding who I was communicating with via PM... you or your brother?

---

I beg to differ Mr. Axelwolf. Check your Pm's on 12/18 at 10:34 am. For some reason yesterday, you dismissed that response and raised the question again.

But to clear the air again. My brother never posted here very much. For the most part he posted at GF where he was trolling around with Rob for several months, and Rob didn't even know it. And he hasn't posted anywhere for at least a couple months.

As I told you privately, I think you are making a bigger deal of it than it is. But if you are concerned then ask Dan Druff how we should handle it. I made him aware of the situation and Druff didn't give any guidance. Over at GF, I also made the admin aware of the situation and he specifically said that if my brother wanted to post he would have to post on the same account. No two accounts from the same household on the same wifi. I am assuming that would be Druff's position as well. But again, if you are concerned ask Druff for guidance and I will gladly follow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

kewlJ,

you haven't addressed my post publicly or privately regarding who I was communicating with via PM... you or your brother?

---

I beg to differ Mr. Axelwolf. Check your Pm's on 12/18 at 10:34 am. For some reason yesterday, you dismissed that response and raised the question again.

But to clear the air again. My brother never posted here very much. For the most part he posted at GF where he was trolling around with Rob for several months, and Rob didn't even know it. And he hasn't posted anywhere for at least a couple months.

As I told you privately, I think you are making a bigger deal of it than it is. But if you are concerned then ask Dan Druff how we should handle it. I made him aware of the situation and Druff didn't give any guidance. Over at GF, I also made the admin aware of the situation and he specifically said that if my brother wanted to post he would have to post on the same account. No two accounts from the same household on the same wifi. I am assuming that would be Druff's position as well. But again, if you are concerned ask Druff for guidance.

---

My bad, I missed that PM somehow or something. Had I read it, I certainly would have had follow-up comments and a question or two. All good, carry on with all the other muckraking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

You give up soo much value not using BTC, up to 50% on your buy-ins. You can get a 100% using cash or 150-200% using crypto.

---

why would the books be so generous if you use crypto____?

what do they get out of it______?

just curious______________________doesn't that make it a lot harder for them to beat the player____________?


.

---

Yes and no. Obviously, this is all offshore joints. With BTC they don't have to pay big processing fees, no chargebacks, and other BS, so they save money on that.
They can really get punished on chargebacks. TBH I haven't even looked to see if they take CCs. I'm not sure how things like skrill work or if you can charge back/claim theft or whatever.

A 150%-200% bonus is for acquiring New players and is usually capped at $500-3k and comes with betting limits(up to $500 max, the good stuff I want to bet is oftentimes capped at $100), odds restrictions -200/+200, and wagering requirements. I have seen it as low as 3 times, but normally it's 10-15 X. You can't take long shots or bet huge, thus eliminating the ability to maximize your value in many cases. It actually ensures the sports book gets action from you(No quick deposits and cashouts). The average person flipping coins isn't going to beat the vig since they are required complete the WRs. In some instances, the Books are giving up some value, but that's just the CPA. Most people are gonna keep betting with or without bonuses. They are even going to catch some big fish who donk off on slots and whatnot.



They will frequently offer you lower percentage bonuses 20%-100% That all depends on different factors.

Not all the WRs, bonuses, and restrictions are the same in all places, it varies. Each place also had various other perks like odds boosts, rebate days, free contests, etc.

If you can simply break even on sports(just need to beat the vig, actually you don't need to beat the entire vig) you should do very well if you take the time and effort needed.

---

Axel, your PM box is full, won't take anymore PMs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

why would the books be so generous if you use crypto____?

what do they get out of it______?

just curious______________________doesn't that make it a lot harder for them to beat the player____________?


.

---

Yes and no. Obviously, this is all offshore joints. With BTC they don't have to pay big processing fees, no chargebacks, and other BS, so they save money on that.
They can really get punished on chargebacks. TBH I haven't even looked to see if they take CCs. I'm not sure how things like skrill work or if you can charge back/claim theft or whatever.

A 150%-200% bonus is for acquiring New players and is usually capped at $500-3k and comes with betting limits(up to $500 max, the good stuff I want to bet is oftentimes capped at $100), odds restrictions -200/+200, and wagering requirements. I have seen it as low as 3 times, but normally it's 10-15 X. You can't take long shots or bet huge, thus eliminating the ability to maximize your value in many cases. It actually ensures the sports book gets action from you(No quick deposits and cashouts). The average person flipping coins isn't going to beat the vig since they are required complete the WRs. In some instances, the Books are giving up some value, but that's just the CPA. Most people are gonna keep betting with or without bonuses. They are even going to catch some big fish who donk off on slots and whatnot.



They will frequently offer you lower percentage bonuses 20%-100% That all depends on different factors.

Not all the WRs, bonuses, and restrictions are the same in all places, it varies. Each place also had various other perks like odds boosts, rebate days, free contests, etc.

If you can simply break even on sports(just need to beat the vig, actually you don't need to beat the entire vig) you should do very well if you take the time and effort needed.

---

Axel, your PM box is full, won't take anymore PMs.

---

How about now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Yes and no. Obviously, this is all offshore joints. With BTC they don't have to pay big processing fees, no chargebacks, and other BS, so they save money on that.
They can really get punished on chargebacks. TBH I haven't even looked to see if they take CCs. I'm not sure how things like skrill work or if you can charge back/claim theft or whatever.

A 150%-200% bonus is for acquiring New players and is usually capped at $500-3k and comes with betting limits(up to $500 max, the good stuff I want to bet is oftentimes capped at $100), odds restrictions -200/+200, and wagering requirements. I have seen it as low as 3 times, but normally it's 10-15 X. You can't take long shots or bet huge, thus eliminating the ability to maximize your value in many cases. It actually ensures the sports book gets action from you(No quick deposits and cashouts). The average person flipping coins isn't going to beat the vig since they are required complete the WRs. In some instances, the Books are giving up some value, but that's just the CPA. Most people are gonna keep betting with or without bonuses. They are even going to catch some big fish who donk off on slots and whatnot.



They will frequently offer you lower percentage bonuses 20%-100% That all depends on different factors.

Not all the WRs, bonuses, and restrictions are the same in all places, it varies. Each place also had various other perks like odds boosts, rebate days, free contests, etc.

If you can simply break even on sports(just need to beat the vig, actually you don't need to beat the entire vig) you should do very well if you take the time and effort needed.

---

Axel, your PM box is full, won't take anymore PMs.

---

How about now?

---

It's still saying your box is full.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Axel, your PM box is full, won't take anymore PMs.

---

How about now?

---

It's still saying your box is full.

---

LOL, of course his PM Box is full.
PMs are not secure by the way.
Just saying.

Should be fine now.

This is a great interview of Steve Fezzik. He gives his side of the story of being banned from South Point. Towards the end he goes into dead numbers on parlay cards. He says that back in 1994 he was the only one doing it. He said he concentrated on stale numbers on parlay cards because no one else was doing it.That would have to mean he originated the concept.

He gives some very good information on betting the parlay cards starting at 22:20

https://youtu.be/ZrsFix6blFM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

This is a great interview of Steve Fezzik. He gives his side of the story of being banned from South Point. Towards the end he goes into dead numbers on parlay cards. He says that back in 1994 he was the only one doing it. He said he concentrated on stale numbers on parlay cards because no one else was doing it.That would have to mean he originated the concept.

He gives some very good information on betting the parlay cards starting at 22:20

https://youtu.be/ZrsFix6blFM

---

No, he didn't originate it. In fact, he wasn't close to originating it.

This was being done mid to late 80's on Boyd cards (Stardust was a Boyd property at the time). I'd guess at least half a dozen or more separate individuals were doing it at the Stardust in the late 80's, not counting the cartel that went Boyd to Boyd whacking them.

Easy way to try to get some sense of it would be to interview Jimmy Vaccaro at South Point and Joe Lupo, who ran the Stardust sports book when I was doing it, and who occasionally threw a disdainful comment my way while limiting me to $50 a card at Stardust windows. And I was just doing it to kill time.

https://www.playnj.com/news/joe-lupo...s-vegas/65906/

What seems to be missing in action in mickey's messaging is the fact that Fezzik is actually a johnny come lately to Las Vegas sports books action by both classic Wise Guy standards and mine.

Now, is it possible that sports books slammed the door on the frozen line, staggered in time strategies circa 1990 and Fezzik came all fresh to the dance in '94 and thought he invented it? Well, I guess anything is possible, but it's highly unlikely that he actually thinks he invented it. I don't know the Lupo years at the Stardust off the top of my head, but if you figure out Lupo's Stardust years, that's when Boyd was getting hit pretty well because they actually had the best parlay cards at the time.

And this is why it pays to actually check with somebody who knows what they're talking about, namely me, on occasion. If you don't know history, you can draw a lot of completely wrong conclusions and give people credit for things they simply did not do. The idea that Fezzik came up with this is comical.

The bottom line is that half a dozen individuals, probably many, many more, were doing it. And a major cartel was doing it. And we all pre-dated Fezzik doing it. People were doing this frozen line, time staggered stuff since the dawn of parlay cards. But the Boyd cards had better odds and ties win options and were generally more daring when it came to not taking games off the cards even when the board numbers were quite different. So Boyd had to deal with it more seriously.

I cannot believe I go around wasting my time correcting mickey, who knows as much about sports betting and the history of sports betting and the logistics of sports betting as I know about Piggy Banking and dating Kate Upton.

You guys are on your own with mickey's "Professional sports betting." I don't have time to correct him going forward. If you have actual questions, email me at IntegritySports@aol.com.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

This is a great interview of Steve Fezzik. He gives his side of the story of being banned from South Point. Towards the end he goes into dead numbers on parlay cards. He says that back in 1994 he was the only one doing it. He said he concentrated on stale numbers on parlay cards because no one else was doing it.That would have to mean he originated the concept.

He gives some very good information on betting the parlay cards starting at 22:20

https://youtu.be/ZrsFix6blFM

---

No, he didn't originate it. In fact, he wasn't close to originating it.

This was being done mid to late 80's on Boyd cards (Stardust was a Boyd property at the time). I'd guess at least half a dozen or more separate individuals were doing it at the Stardust in the late 80's, not counting the cartel that went Boyd to Boyd whacking them.

Easy way to try to get some sense of it would be to interview Jimmy Vaccaro at South Point and Joe Lupo, who ran the Stardust sports book when I was doing it, and who occasionally threw a disdainful comment my way while limiting me to $50 a card at Stardust windows. And I was just doing it to kill time.

https://www.playnj.com/news/joe-lupo...s-vegas/65906/

What seems to be missing in action in mickey's messaging is the fact that Fezzik is actually a johnny come lately to Las Vegas sports books action by both classic Wise Guy standards and mine.

Now, is it possible that sports books slammed the door on the frozen line, staggered in time strategies circa 1990 and Fezzik came all fresh to the dance in '94 and thought he invented it? Well, I guess anything is possible, but it's highly unlikely that he actually thinks he invented it. I don't know the Lupo years at the Stardust off the top of my head, but if you figure out Lupo's Stardust years, that's when Boyd was getting hit pretty well because they actually had the best parlay cards at the time.

And this is why it pays to actually check with somebody who knows what they're talking about, namely me, on occasion. If you don't know history, you can draw a lot of completely wrong conclusions and give people credit for things they simply did not do. The idea that Fezzik came up with this is comical.

The bottom line is that half a dozen individuals, probably many, many more, were doing it. And a major cartel was doing it. And we all pre-dated Fezzik doing it. People were doing this frozen line, time staggered stuff since the dawn of parlay cards. But the Boyd cards had better odds and ties win options and were generally more daring when it came to not taking games off the cards even when the board numbers were quite different. So Boyd had to deal with it more seriously.

I cannot believe I go around wasting my time correcting mickey, who knows as much about sports betting and the history of sports betting and the logistics of sports betting as I know about Piggy Banking and dating Kate Upton.

You guys are on your own with mickey's "Professional sports betting." I don't have time to correct him going forward. If you have actual questions, email me at IntegritySports@aol.com.

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For the record, is Robert Dietz calling Steve Fezzik a liar? Fezzik said he was the only one doing it. And it was broadcast all over the sports betting world in that podcast. For Jimmy Vaccaro and Joe Lupo to see. There are a lot of people that would love to take Fezzik down. I see hateful tweets about Fezzik all the time. You could tip them off, Ditz, about him taking credit for something he shouldn't have.

I think it would have been very obvious to Fezzik if anyone else was working dead numbers. He couldn't have missed it. At this point I have to take his word over yours. Because after we've seen how you have conducted yourself in this thread you simply don't have any credibility. You are good at dropping names but that's as far as you go. As always someone else must "go get the proof." It's time for YOU to put up the irrefutable evidence.

VSIN is a sportbetting network. They have famous sports bettors on their podcasts all the time. They've done that for years. Have they ever heard of you? Maybe we can get you on VSIN to give the real history of betting dead numbers. Is it okay with you if I contact them to see if they will have you on?

BTW, I take it you haven't been interviewed on GWAE yet as they post up the podcast very quickly after it's recorded. What is your schedule with the GWAE interview?

Oh, and that 1K is still available if you can find a quote by me in this thread that dead numbers is a new angle. Tick....tock....tick....tock....

VSIN stands for Vegas Sports Information Network. They have a lot of podcasts. Here's a link:

https://www.vsin.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

VSIN stands for Vegas Sports Information Network. They have a lot of podcasts. Here's a link:

https://www.vsin.com/

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Am I calling Fezzik a liar? LOL. I'm calling him, on this, an optimistic bullshitter with a little bit of self-serving in there.

I was doing it, and mainly to kill time. So if you want me to call Fezzik a liar, sure, happy to do so. I'd estimate that I made a couple thousand a year during its heyday. It's no sure thing -- there are only really 12 weeks in a college football season. I'd throw a couple hundred a week at it, and I'd say the most I made any given year was maybe 5K or a little more. I might have made 7K or 8K one year. I did it to kill time, not as some income staple. I lost money on it at least one year, but it wasn't a lot, less than 2K.

Mickey, you simply don't know anything. I was being kind in my estimate of how many people were doing this. Maybe one person in 20 in the sports book at the Stardust was doing this. Why would Vacarro or Lupo bother to correct Fezzik? What would be the percentage in doing so? And do you really think somebody like Vacarro or Lupo listens to GWAE regularly? These guys are semi-legends.

You just have no knowledge, man. It didn't take a Leonardo da AP to do the parlay card thing. Anybody with half a brain, presented with these scenarios, would be doing it a couple of weeks or a month into the opportunity. It's an OBVIOUS thing to do. Obvious, easy, requiring very little expertise other than being able to invest a few dollars and a little squinting at cards.

I mean, really, you're saying that you never figured out to do it?

Then what the hell do you APs do? Sit and stare at things and hope some simple math saves the day? I'm telling you this is one of the most OBVIOUS, EASY, and UBIQUITOUS angles in sports betting. And it has been since parlay cards were invented. If people like you, Witteles, kewlJ, Seed, Axelwolf never did it, it would suggest you were all, to be politically incorrect, a bit on the tard side.

Mickey, you just do not know what you are talking about. It's disturbing. I can sit down with anybody who bet serious amounts in the 80's and early 90's, mention this, and they will know exactly what I'm talking about. It was no secret, no big AP play. For the books, it was the cost of business of putting parlay cards out on Tuesday and even Wednesday morning. It always has been.

You just have no perspective and very little knowledge. Jesus.

I had a brief email exchange with Munch. Not with Dancer. I received no follow-up emails. I'll be in Las Vegas April 17-21. If you want me to wing it then in an interview with them, go ahead and set it up. I have no qualms. I would think anybody popularizing the Bet Bash thing might have some reservations about asking me some stuff. Can you imagine if casinos invited card counters for "Counting Bash?" or machine players for "AP Bash?" What would counters and machine players say was going on? A helpful exchange of useful info between players? I think not. LOL.

I'll also be in LV during July with an East Coast Mafia expert to give a semi-historical tour for The Gangster Chronicles. If GWAE would like to do anything then, great. pass it along. You gotta realize -- GWAE and LVA were very late to the sports betting party. They are not top flight experts. I've read LVA almost since its inception -- they kind of staggered into the sports betting scene very late.

One last thing. How often does one of these radio networks actually vet the person on the show and to what degree do they vet them?

For example, I can drag documentation of my handicapping record onto any show and read straight from it, or quote from something like Who's Who in Sports Gambling, where people were actually vetted. Or dig up old Wise Guys contest records to present.

But how often does something like GWAE or a VSIN show request that kind of thing? Or demand it? Do you really think these shows are "peer reviewed" by other experts in the field?

The difference between someone like mickey and me on a show like GWAE is, if the show asks both of us to provide historical documentation of what we've done and what we can do and who has vetted us as expert, I actually have documentation. I have published records from multiple sources going back decades. I can say, "Go to this expert or that" and ask them about me. I can provide a handful of high profile clients or partners if necessary. I can also dredge up academic papers or articles fighting against when Spanier and his crew tried to ban college football betting in Las Vegas.

Does GWAE vet people to that degree? If not, why not?