Mdawg claims proven false AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by MisterV

We're not talking about Darkoz and his shit load of different cards from myriad people; above Seedvalue laid out something radically different, i.e. his method of using the cards of only two people, a husband and wife and no others.

"They both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

How many people are degenerate enough AND wealthy enough to put in this type of action, day ina and day out?

Nobody I know or know about would qualify for entry in that limited club but hey, Las Vegas is the last stop on the gambling train so I guess there's a few multi-millionaire couples that could play that way.

Big difference; or as they say, "apples and oranges."

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How could you possibly pass the bar ? I gave an example a very fucking basic easy to understand one at that. One that shows how a couple could make 30k a week. Some of you are either trolling or complete morons. It’s amazing

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As for a team making a million over a 8 week period it involved 30 cards each getting $500 4 times a week 10k per month each card. However this new property had integration problems that were exploited. It involved inserting the card and downloading the free play at two separate properties at the same time. Essentially making $500 worth 1k. If you do this thing long enough you are always testing different ideas. Some work out some don’t. There are plenty of plays that are never made public. Like the roulette play currently that May or may not be legal. Who knows who cares it’s all fake lies and parody right lol

I'm clueless, Seedvalue: it's your job to clue me in.

Your example is a married couple only, who "both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

You rake me over the coals for not buying into it, and that's just the problem, boyo: the cost of entry into your little scenario.

Do the math: you say the couple generates freeplay of $2000.00 per week from 15 casinos, totaling #30,000.00 per week.

That's borderline insane: who the hell does this?

I raised the issue of the application of the house advantage against their seemingly massive bankroll as they play enough coin in to earn $2000.00 per week from 14 different casinos.

C'mon, man: even a clueless soul such as myself understands they'll get hammered doing that; are you saying the freeplay earned is substantially greater than the money they lost earning that freeplay?

Oh, you asked how I passed the bar; I didn't pass it, I usually stopped and drank a pitcher or two.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I'm clueless, Seedvalue: it's your job to clue me in.

Your example is a married couple only, who "both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

You rake me over the coals for not buying into it, and that's just the problem, boyo: the cost of entry into your little scenario.

Do the math: you say the couple generates freeplay of $2000.00 per week from 15 casinos, totaling #30,000.00 per week.

That's borderline insane: who the hell does this?

I raised the issue of the application of the house advantage against their seemingly massive bankroll as they play enough coin in to earn $2000.00 per week from 14 different casinos.

C'mon, man: even a clueless soul such as myself understands they'll get hammered doing that; are you saying the freeplay earned is substantially greater than the money they lost earning that freeplay?

Oh, you asked how I passed the bar; I didn't pass it, I usually stopped and drank a pitcher or two.

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It’s called Theo

Not my problem you don’t understand it

It’s also not that insane. For example Kew probably spends 10 to 15 hours a week sucking the cock of random guys he meets in casino bathrooms. Imagine how much more per year he would make if he spent that time at the tables.

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

It’s called Theo Not my problem you don’t understand it

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Oh well, that's enough.

I'll leave this esoteric subject to you and those kindred souls who, Don Quixote-like, joust at the casino windmills for a living.

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I'm clueless, Seedvalue: it's your job to clue me in.

Your example is a married couple only, who "both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

You rake me over the coals for not buying into it, and that's just the problem, boyo: the cost of entry into your little scenario.

Do the math: you say the couple generates freeplay of $2000.00 per week from 15 casinos, totaling #30,000.00 per week.

That's borderline insane: who the hell does this?

I raised the issue of the application of the house advantage against their seemingly massive bankroll as they play enough coin in to earn $2000.00 per week from 14 different casinos.

C'mon, man: even a clueless soul such as myself understands they'll get hammered doing that; are you saying the freeplay earned is substantially greater than the money they lost earning that freeplay?

Oh, you asked how I passed the bar; I didn't pass it, I usually stopped and drank a pitcher or two.

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It’s called Theo

Not my problem you don’t understand it

It’s also not that insane. For example Kew probably spends 10 to 15 hours a week sucking the cock of random guys he meets in casino bathrooms. Imagine how much more per year he would make if he spent that time at the tables.

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That's just it. Some of us here don't deal with theoretical. We deal with reality.

Some of us know that it takes a certain amount of coin in to get a certain amount of free play... even when there is a stellar promotion. And some of us know free play doesnt last forever without additional coin in that's over the amount of free play.

On the other forum DO admitted to "investing" (his word) $60,000 to get the initial free play.

From that point theoretical went out the window and some of us could see the actual reality.

BS.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Is that who you are jdaewoo? Geez, I need a program to know who is who. :D

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He's not JWT, then again you're one of the worst sock/dupe detectors on all forums !

Kewlj you're a smart player and a good observer and knowledgeable about casino operations. Why dont you target these other posers and their ridiculous claims? Do your public service.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Thanks for the info Seedvalue.

Your method seems to be premised on the reciept of large offers of freeplay based on massive coin in; got it.

But in order to "create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week" these folks will have to bet a lot of money over a lot of time, exposing same to the house edge.

How much would each need to bet throught the machines to generate that massive amount of free play?

How long would it take to play it through, as "time is money?"

Seems to my jaundiced eye that these players would likely lose more when playing in order to generate free play than the value of the free play itself, given the inexorable house edge.

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Wagers can be run on variable state slot machines that are in a high state of payback. Playing games like Hex 3 from the 6th level or even the 5th level and running multiple cards on it will get the job done. I've seen them where max bet is $40 so you can create a lot of action.

I've followed Darkoz' WoV thread about his trials and tribulations in the east coast casinos with great interest. The one thing that sticks out to me is them getting triple digit freeplay 7 days a week out of each casino.

That doesn't occur in my market. The best I get is one day a week.

When you add up multiple casinos with triple digit freeplay everyday, and running multiple cards....we're talking about a lot of money. So I have no problem believing the amounts of money he has posted.

That kind of marketing has obviously worked for those east coast casinos or they wouldn't still be doing it. They just want to cut out the wiseguys like darkoz.

Now, as to running action to get it. I listed one way to run action, playing variable state slots that are in high payback mode. But that could limit the amount of action you run, thus limiting the amount of freeplay you get.

IIRC, darkoz had a way of creating a wager on the cards without really gambling, or it had a very small loss rate.

PS: V, there was a bank of Hex 3's at Spirit Mountain the last time I was there....if you want to get a look at them.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

We're not talking about Darkoz and his shit load of different cards from myriad people; above Seedvalue laid out something radically different, i.e. his method of using the cards of only two people, a husband and wife and no others.

"They both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

How many people are degenerate enough AND wealthy enough to put in this type of action, day ina and day out?

Nobody I know or know about would qualify for entry in that limited club but hey, Las Vegas is the last stop on the gambling train so I guess there's a few multi-millionaire couples that could play that way.

Big difference; or as they say, "apples and oranges."

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Can't say about what darkoz is doing but video poker pros generally did it this way. They would run 100K in action on a 98% game. Theoretical loss is 2K. But then they would get say $500 a week in freeplay for 6 months, return = 12K. They would just go in, run off the freeplay, then leave without giving any action. Do it at multiple properties.

When the freeplay offers petered out they would go in and do the same thing again.

This technique caused a lot of casinos, at least out west, to cut their freeplay offers.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I'm clueless, Seedvalue: it's your job to clue me in.

Your example is a married couple only, who "both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

You rake me over the coals for not buying into it, and that's just the problem, boyo: the cost of entry into your little scenario.

Do the math: you say the couple generates freeplay of $2000.00 per week from 15 casinos, totaling #30,000.00 per week.

That's borderline insane: who the hell does this?

I raised the issue of the application of the house advantage against their seemingly massive bankroll as they play enough coin in to earn $2000.00 per week from 14 different casinos.

C'mon, man: even a clueless soul such as myself understands they'll get hammered doing that; are you saying the freeplay earned is substantially greater than the money they lost earning that freeplay?

Oh, you asked how I passed the bar; I didn't pass it, I usually stopped and drank a pitcher or two.

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V, I think what you are not getting is freeplay could be generated in copious amounts by just gambling once. In the case of video poker I just posted about you run 100K in action on a 98% game. Then you get .5% in freeplay for six months. That's 24 times.

You are just going in and running off the freeplay, then leaving. Keep in mind that you don't have to run another 100K in action to get the next installment of $500 in freeplay. The casinos would just keep sending the mailers with the freeplay every month.

In my neck of the woods I might get a mailer that says says I get X amount of freeplay between 1st and 7th of the month, then another load from 8th to 15th, then 16th to 23th, then 23th to 31st. Thats 4 shots in one month and it all came in the same mailer. Then the next month they send me the same thing.

So $500 in freeplay 24 times is 12%. Add that to the 98% game and you are at 110%.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by Seedvalue

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I'm clueless, Seedvalue: it's your job to clue me in.

Your example is a married couple only, who "both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

You rake me over the coals for not buying into it, and that's just the problem, boyo: the cost of entry into your little scenario.

Do the math: you say the couple generates freeplay of $2000.00 per week from 15 casinos, totaling #30,000.00 per week.

That's borderline insane: who the hell does this?

I raised the issue of the application of the house advantage against their seemingly massive bankroll as they play enough coin in to earn $2000.00 per week from 14 different casinos.

C'mon, man: even a clueless soul such as myself understands they'll get hammered doing that; are you saying the freeplay earned is substantially greater than the money they lost earning that freeplay?

Oh, you asked how I passed the bar; I didn't pass it, I usually stopped and drank a pitcher or two.

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It’s called Theo

Not my problem you don’t understand it

It’s also not that insane. For example Kew probably spends 10 to 15 hours a week sucking the cock of random guys he meets in casino bathrooms. Imagine how much more per year he would make if he spent that time at the tables.

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That's just it. Some of us here don't deal with theoretical. We deal with reality.

Some of us know that it takes a certain amount of coin in to get a certain amount of free play... even when there is a stellar promotion. And some of us know free play doesnt last forever without additional coin in that's over the amount of free play.

On the other forum DO admitted to "investing" (his word) $60,000 to get the initial free play.

From that point theoretical went out the window and some of us could see the actual reality.

BS.

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Alan, the THEO that seedvalue is talking about is the casinos calculation of what you are worth to them. They do it with the theoretical payback of the games you play along with your average wager while there.

There was a time when casinos went by the average hold of a multi-game machine. So a machine with a lot of bad games on it, but one very good game, say like 9/6 Jacks showed a big theo for the casino because the theo was based on the average hold for all the games combined. So the knowledgeable player would play the 9/6 on these games and get big offers of freeplay and comp.

I would like to know what casinos lock up free play levels for six months? Currently the casino companies I know reevaluate free play every two months.

Mickeycrimm: Darkoz admitted he "invested" $60,000 into getting free play on 20 or 21 cards. How does that $60,000 figure into your estimation of his return?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Playing games like Hex 3 from the 6th level or even the 5th level and running multiple cards on it will get the job done.

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In addition to Hexbreaker, Regal Riches (-EV upfront Megas in the mid 80s) seems to be a cardrunner (Filipino crews) favorite.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I would like to know what casinos lock up free play levels for six months? Currently the casino companies I know reevaluate free play every two months.

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You are correct Alan. Here in Vegas, at least during my time of doing this play that mickey describes, albeit at a lower coin in level, we have gotten 6 months of declining mail offers. Maybe 2 months at the top amount and then a month or two at half that top rate and then a month or two at even lower. Then I would hit my big coin in and start the cycle all over again. Mickey said casinos began to cut down. Vegas was probably the first area to do that (with Boyd leading the charge). I never got in on that 6 months of max mail offers. Wish I had.

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Is that who you are jdaewoo? Geez, I need a program to know who is who. :D

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He's not JWT, then again you're one of the worst sock/dupe detectors on all forums !

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You are right! It was never my goal to play these kind of games detecting who is a sock puppet and using multiple handles. :(

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Mickeycrimm: Darkoz admitted he "invested" $60,000 into getting free play on 20 or 21 cards. How does that $60,000 figure into your estimation of his return?

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You are correct again Alan. (you are having a good day :)). Darkoz never mentioned, or if he did only mentioned once, that he needed a large coin in on each card to get those offers rolling. He probably didn't mention it because as you can see, there are members that aren't real happy when someone reveals how this play works. BUT not mentioning the initial coin in necessary, is like telling half the story, only the good part. It is similar to Mdawg only reporting his winning sessions.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Mickeycrimm: Darkoz admitted he "invested" $60,000 into getting free play on 20 or 21 cards. How does that $60,000 figure into your estimation of his return?

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What the fuck are you talking about? Profit = Cashy cash earned - cashy cash spent. The $60,000 you put in quotes as "invested" because you are ignorant is part of cashy cash spent. If darkoz made $20,000 monthly for 2 months on the play where he invested (notice I didn't put it in quotes) 60k then ... this is going to be algebra so you won't understand it

20k x 2 (the profit) = (cashy cash earned) - 60k (the cashy cash spent)
cashy cash earned = 20k x 2 + 60k
cashy cash earned = 100k

Therefore, he collected 100k freeplay on the 20 cards.

He didn't profit 100k because he spent 60k to prime those cards.

Therefore his profit was 40k total.

If it took him 2 months

Then his profit was 20k/month

God you are so fucking ignorant. You honestly fucking think an AP spent 60k to prime cards, took out 40k total in freeplay and then ran around with his dick in one hand and the 40k in the other screaming "Look MA, I made 40k". No, he took out 100k total in freeplay, replenshed the 60k operating capital to be used on the next project, and ran around with his dick in one hand and 40k in the other screaming "Look MA, I made 40k". Jesus fucking tapdancing christ. Successful people who don't suck at math take their expenses into account when reporting results. Jesus effing Christ how is that so fucking difficult to understand?

Jdaewoo are you on drugs?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Mickeycrimm: Darkoz admitted he "invested" $60,000 into getting free play on 20 or 21 cards. How does that $60,000 figure into your estimation of his return?

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You are correct again Alan. (you are having a good day :)). Darkoz never mentioned, or if he did only mentioned once, that he needed a large coin in on each card to get those offers rolling. He probably didn't mention it because as you can see, there are members that aren't real happy when someone reveals how this play works. BUT not mentioning the initial coin in necessary, is like telling half the story, only the good part. It is similar to Mdawg only reporting his winning sessions.

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DO only mentioned the $60k figure once AND NOT IN RESPONSE TO A DIRECT QUESTION.

He revealed the $60k figure when he responded to another question about giving up. He said he didnt want to abandon the 60k he put into the cards.

Yes. He was hiding the 60k until it slipped out.