Leonardo Da AP

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Nestor & Kane did not utilize the DU play as an "AP move" in any way. They were degenerate vp gamblers who stumbled across a machine glitch and very sloppily beat it to death without a structured plan, in any sense of the word.

The reason I was able to play it very profitably for nearly 5-1/2 years before these bozos destroyed it for me (and, for possibly anyone else taking advantage of the play) is because, as a non-AP, I approached the anomaly as being able to "rob" the machines undetected, by coming up with methods that would absolutely keep all eyes off of me throughout the process. One win/one casino is not a policy for lazy-ass/helter-skelter players.

After the fact, you can say it was "the greatest vp AP move of all time"....guaranteed to make a sizeable profit time after time after time. But at the time I was no AP; I simply & painstakingly manipulated certain machines and outsmarted the casinos--and in a way that still makes me feel like a king every time I step into ANY of the many, many Nevada casinos I put the play down in every corner of the state.

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Oh Please!!!!!

Surveillance is going to take a look at any sizable hand pay jackpot. It only takes a few seconds to review the actions of the play. Strip casinos, such a jackpot is routine, so isn't going to draw that much attention, but still they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't review it for a few seconds.

Mid-sized casinos, like Stations, Boyds, South Point, and I will include Silverton, even though a little bit smaller, surveillance is absolutely going to take a minute and review the win. And any casino smaller, players playing the limits Rob claims is so rare they will absolutely scrutinize the play.

Now look, here is the play: Player hits a jackpot. He then inserts more money into the machine which triggers the option to change denomination.

That is NOT freaking normal actions. Nobody inserts more money immediately after hitting a jackpot like that. This action would ABSOLUTELY be noticed.

Maybe you get some sleepy, surveillance that just doesn't give a damn, BUT you sure aren't going to go 5 and a half years tricking competent surveillance crews with this play. Not a chance in hell.

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Originally Posted by jdaewoo

I'm sure the retard posting fake UX jackpots with exercise equipment in the background is telling the truth about exploiting the double up bug.

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Fair point.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

That is NOT freaking normal actions. Nobody inserts more money immediately after hitting a jackpot like that. This action would ABSOLUTELY be noticed.

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Drunk people do.
People with OCD do.
People with depressive tendencies do.

And casinos are full of such people.

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Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

That is NOT freaking normal actions. Nobody inserts more money immediately after hitting a jackpot like that. This action would ABSOLUTELY be noticed.

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Drunk people do.
People with OCD do.
People with depressive tendencies do.

And casinos are full of such people.

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Okay, and surveillance would notice this behavior take a look and determine that the person is drunk, or has some sort of OCD. BUT they would notice and take a look. And in the case of what Rob is claiming, they would see what had occurred.

Don't make excuses for him. You know damn well he didn't play this play for 5.5 years to the tune of almost 3 million dollars. He read about the play, and Kane/Nestor right here on this very site, and stole the idea and play claiming he did it before they did.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

"Sure I'm a compulsive liar, but at least my lies could have been true!"

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Besides that it is Rob, doing his stupid Rob Singer bullshit, I personally don't think a whole lot of this play. I think it is theft and receiving stolen goods that the player KNOWS he is not entitled to. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have played it if I had discovered it. :rolleyes:

The fact that prosecutors didn't think they could prove the case to a jury (probably sympathetic against casinos) and/or a judge, who might not understand the technical aspect of the case, does NOT make it not illegal (double negative). It just means they didn't think they could prove it or didn't know how to prove it.

Now people might see a similarity in the play that my brother and I played last spring, which was also most likely a machine type glitch. I say "most likely" because I have never seen or heard of a blackjack game, felt or electronic that allows the player to take a second action after doubling down. I never heard of it, but that doesn't mean there isn't one somewhere with that odds rule. So there is no real proof, only strong suspicion that it was a glitch.

BUT there is no VP machine anywhere that pays a player $4000 for a 25 cent 4000-1 royal flush hit. You just can't claim you didn't know and be believable.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

That is NOT freaking normal actions. Nobody inserts more money immediately after hitting a jackpot like that. This action would ABSOLUTELY be noticed.

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Drunk people do.
People with OCD do.
People with depressive tendencies do.

And casinos are full of such people.

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Okay, and surveillance would notice this behavior take a look and determine that the person is drunk, or has some sort of OCD. BUT they would notice and take a look. And in the case of what Rob is claiming, they would see what had occurred.

Don't make excuses for him. You know damn well he didn't play this play for 5.5 years to the tune of almost 3 million dollars. He read about the play, and Kane/Nestor right here on this very site, and stole the idea and play claiming he did it before they did.

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How do you know what all casino staff do everywhere? Tasha just demonstrated that her local casino staff didn't look to carefully at her used bingo cards for a long time. The world is big and you haven't seen most of it. You're a bit too paranoid and that affects your perception of reality.

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Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs

How do you know what all casino staff do everywhere? Tasha just demonstrated that her local casino staff didn't look to carefully at her used bingo cards for a long time. The world is big and you haven't seen most of it. You're a bit too paranoid and that affects your perception of reality.

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There is a bit of a difference between bingo staff and surveillance at a casino. :D I have had the benefit of communicating with several surveillance and former surveillance guys. I mean come on....this is what they do!! If someone didn't notice a player inserting money after registering a win, allowing them to change denominations and receive a much bigger payout that the player was entitled to, those surveillance people would be out of a job.

I am not paranoid. I just KNOWhowo this industry works. It is my business to know who these things work. Any AP that doesn't know and educate themselves about these things won't be able to play for long. And that is especially true of card counters who have been fighting this war, since long before I started playing.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Always the same UNKewl pattern:

1. Post some nonsense.

2. Is challenged.

3. Fictionalizes about someone or other who
-wrote to him about it
-did the same play
-is aware that UNKewlJ did whatever it is UNKewlJ is claiming he did
-was seen doing the same play.

It's never enough that he did something, he has to also create some lies surrounding corroboration (that always center around unnamed, unknown, never to be revealed players in his fable).

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

There is a clear trend that has developed now. All of KewlJ's implied associates are turning out to be other invented characters in his years of lies. ...RIP

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Why isn't this retard posting more fake baccarat sessions?

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Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs

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Originally Posted by MDawg

What's obvious is that Rob and I have obviously done something. Both in the casinos and in life in general.

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Developed an unhealthy obsession with an anonymous internet fag?

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LMAO

Kew is pretending he knows a lot of things he doesn’t know again.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by pinchingyourballs

How do you know what all casino staff do everywhere? Tasha just demonstrated that her local casino staff didn't look to carefully at her used bingo cards for a long time. The world is big and you haven't seen most of it. You're a bit too paranoid and that affects your perception of reality.

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There is a bit of a difference between bingo staff and surveillance at a casino. :D I have had the benefit of communicating with several surveillance and former surveillance guys. I mean come on....this is what they do!! If someone didn't notice a player inserting money after registering a win, allowing them to change denominations and receive a much bigger payout that the player was entitled to, those surveillance people would be out of a job.

I am not paranoid. I just KNOWhowo this industry works. It is my business to know who these things work. Any AP that doesn't know and educate themselves about these things won't be able to play for long. And that is especially true of card counters who have been fighting this war, since long before I started playing.

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But Nestor & Kane got away with it for some time & quite a bit of money without surveillance catching on.

As I recall how they actually got caught was one of them got very lazy & greedy (not to mention extremely dumb) & sat in one casino just hitting handpay after handpay on the same machine & even complaining they were taking too long to pay him.

It was the large number of hand pays & money involved on the same machine at the same place in a short amount of time that caused him to be scrutinized, not a single hand pay which up until that point they hadn’t had any issues.

If I’m recalling everything correctly.

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Originally Posted by mcap

Kew is pretending he knows a lot of things he doesn’t know again.

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No he isn't. There is a lot I don't know. But there is a lot I do as well. An AP can never really know enough about surveillance and how they work. Different casinos have different priorities. Card counting now a days is a fairly low priority at most places. But on the other hand, some casinos the heat or evaluations are initiated from above, rather than from the floor. The more you can know and learn about different places the better off you are.

But lets just go over some numbers from Rob's claims. I know some of you people don't like to look at the actual numbers and math. I like to use an example involving the DU bug of hitting a 25 cent Royal for $1000 and changing the domination to $1 for a $4000 hand pay. That is just an example I use. Royals occur pretty infrequently. What if the player was playing $1 demon, hits a 4 aces for $400 and changes the denom to $5 for a $2000 hand pay. That would happen more frequently, but draw less attention. Less reason to look at it.

So at this level $2000 and $4000 hand pays you would need about 2000 times pulling off this play to get to the 2.8 million Rob claims. I mean how often do you think a player can pull it off without being caught? :confused:

Additionally, just Today Rob tangled his own web a little further by stating he had "1 win, 1 casino" approach. So he played 2000 different casinos to get to that 2.8 million? He says every corner of Nevada. That is going to have him playing some pretty small places, that even a $2000 hand pay probably gets a second look.

Now he could play even higher denominations which would have required fewer plays to get to the 2.8 million. But higher demon, means bigger hand pays = even more attention and scrutiny. It just doesn't add up. No body could do this play for 5.5 years 2.8 million dollars over 1000's of casinos and every surveillance guy in every casino looks the other way or is asleep at the wheel. :rolleyes:

When we discussed this DU play years ago on this forum, Maxpen indicated he would have taken a real grinder approach. Try to stay below the hand pay totals. And just for the record, in some of these smaller casinos in every corner of Nevada, hand pays aren't set @ $1200. they are lower. $500 or $600 can be a hand pay. So if you were playing these small places as Rob indicated, you might need 2-3000 hits. Even more likely someone is going to notice something. :rolleyes:

So anyway, I kind of agree with Maxpen. The optimal way to play this if you had stumbled upon it (which Rob didn't), would be to grind low stakes. 25 cent denom. Change the denomination on some $100 hits up to $400 or $500. Just cash out, avoiding hand pays completely, involving no casino personnel. You would have to do it many, many times, but with no handpay interactions, there would really be absolutely nothing suspicious or unusual for anyone to be looking at.

Yeah, you are.

He didn’t do it but you have such a hard on for discrediting Rob you’re going into these elaborate logic chains that aren’t ALL that different from saying you couldn’t possibly count cards for a living in Las Vegas for over a decade….

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Originally Posted by mcap

You’re going into these elaborate logic chains that aren’t ALL that different from saying you couldn’t possibly count cards for a living in Las Vegas for over a decade….

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Originally Posted by mcap

Kew is pretending he knows a lot of things he doesn’t know again.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

This dude is a fraud. He just tries to piece together things that he imagines goes on based on a culmination of bits and pieces of stories he pulls from the Internet. Clown world.

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Don’t you have some fake baccarat sessions to make up mdog?

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Originally Posted by mcap

Don’t you have some fake baccarat sessions to make up mdog?

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Shouldn't you, and V, try making up your own bullshit, for a change? Ha.

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Originally Posted by MDawg

UNKewlJ can't post what he doesn't have. Which includes about everything he has ever talked about other than some red or green chips. :D

https://i.imgur.com/qFQz40yl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/y7W17LUl.jpg

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https://i.imgur.com/cY7XYxAl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YbvddT1l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GJ5216ml.jpg

Camel shit for brains: Lets assume those chips belong to you for a minute. There are some that suggest, you have clients and associates that you deal watches to, that are the really big rollers. But lets just for the sake of argument say those chips belong to you. What exactly do you think that proves?

It proves you HAVE or come from money. NOT that you win or have won money. I don't think anyone is doubting that you have or come from money, are they?

You have always thought the members on both forums here and WoV, fell for the notion that stacks of chips and cash means you won. It doesn't. :rolleyes:

Maybe you are fooling some of the novice or recreational players with that bullshit, but you aren't fooling any....NOT ONE real player, recreational or professional. It is just foolishness.

Addon: And you know who was one of the very first people to pretty much dismiss your stacks of chips and cash as nonsense? None other than Rob Singer about 3 posts into your adventure thread here on this forum. :D