Mdawg claims proven false AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I'm clueless, Seedvalue: it's your job to clue me in.

Your example is a married couple only, who "both create offers that get them $250 each 4 times a week. That’s 500 each visit 4 times a week at 15 casinos."

You rake me over the coals for not buying into it, and that's just the problem, boyo: the cost of entry into your little scenario.

Do the math: you say the couple generates freeplay of $2000.00 per week from 15 casinos, totaling #30,000.00 per week.

That's borderline insane: who the hell does this?

I raised the issue of the application of the house advantage against their seemingly massive bankroll as they play enough coin in to earn $2000.00 per week from 14 different casinos.

C'mon, man: even a clueless soul such as myself understands they'll get hammered doing that; are you saying the freeplay earned is substantially greater than the money they lost earning that freeplay?

Oh, you asked how I passed the bar; I didn't pass it, I usually stopped and drank a pitcher or two.

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V, I think what you are not getting is freeplay could be generated in copious amounts by just gambling once. In the case of video poker I just posted about you run 100K in action on a 98% game. Then you get .5% in freeplay for six months. That's 24 times.

You are just going in and running off the freeplay, then leaving. Keep in mind that you don't have to run another 100K in action to get the next installment of $500 in freeplay. The casinos would just keep sending the mailers with the freeplay every month.

In my neck of the woods I might get a mailer that says says I get X amount of freeplay between 1st and 7th of the month, then another load from 8th to 15th, then 16th to 23th, then 23th to 31st. Thats 4 shots in one month and it all came in the same mailer. Then the next month they send me the same thing.

So $500 in freeplay 24 times is 12%. Add that to the 98% game and you are at 110%.

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That was a ridiculously clear synopsis. Hard to argue with it or claim it's too illegal/sophisticated/unbelievable. And probably shouldn't have spelled it out, but what the hell? We're getting old. I actually posted baseball plays two weeks ago.

We'll be in the ground soon enough.

Redietz check what Kewlj wrote.

How much free play do you get?

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Originally Posted by redietz

That was a ridiculously clear synopsis. Hard to argue with it or claim it's too illegal/sophisticated/unbelievable. And probably shouldn't have spelled it out, but what the hell? We're getting old. I actually posted baseball plays two weeks ago.

We'll be in the ground soon enough.

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See that is sort of one of my pet peeves. If members don't want to talk about what they do that is fine. There is a case to be made for not doing so. Loose lips sinks ships and all that. But don't just come on these forum and tell half the story, the beneifits without the cost. Or post up your wins without mentioning the losses (Mdawg). That is just dishonest.

I began my BJ career and also participating on forums back in the mid 2000's shortly after the two books and a couple years later the movie about the MIT blackjack team came out. The common promotional theme was "how a group of college students took Las Vegas for millions?". If you read the books you know that yes, they won millions, but ended up with a fraction of that after the losing periods, a couple of the players went on tilt losing, robberies even amongs themselves, Probably players skimming ect. How they won millions was only half the story.

There were also players, BJ players on the forum I was first on, because it was specifically a BJ forum, who were all talking about they won this and won that. Never any mention of the losing sessions, days, or longer periods. And that is what blackjack card counting really is....a rollercoaster. So I decided I would share my journey, the winning and losing, the good and bad, as best I could. And I have gotten a lot of shit for it ever since. Apparently we are only supposed to tell half the story and talk about the winning, or the beneifits of the mail offers and not the cost involved. :rolleyes:

I must have missed you revealing some baseball picks, as I probably would have played along a little, as I sometimes do with Monet and even Druff's picks (when he is going well). Druff goes in cycles. Let's see two weeks ago, I was tagging along with Monet. I think that was the week he said Dodgers and Brewers were easy money. Well the brewers lost 2 of 3 to the worse team in baseball (Cinncinnati) and the game the won didn't cover the run line and the dodgers lost 2 of 3 to the Pirates and followed that up losing 3 of 4 at home to the Phillies. So I could have used someone else's picks that week. :D

Kewlj great post.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Redietz check what Kewlj wrote.

How much free play do you get?

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Alan, I get the argument that current offers do not match what mickey is reporting as having been available or currently available on the road in various places. That's no secret, that the heyday is gone. But the point is those opportunities had been available for years, and you were arguing against them years ago, when they were in fact opportunities.

It's no revelation that offers crashed in LV. I play minimally (aside from sports), and I lost about a thousand in stashed free play and comps because I haven't been there in two years. That's pretty arrogant, to zero out relatively good, 30-year customers during a pandemic. The fact Boyd and Stations did that tells you that they aren't really interested in maintaining customer relations via good offers and free play.

The obvious tell to the crashed offers is Jean Scott's blog at LVA. She has always been an upbeat Pollyanna when it comes to offers and such, but even she has spent the last year bemoaning the lousy offers and free play.

Now of course, where some things dry up, occasionally something else takes its place, and something has somewhat. But that something is best not spelled out on a public forum, although it's not a state secret. As I have said to MrV on occasion, you have to loosen up your perspectives and get a little savvy in things you're not familiar with. It's not rocket science.

I understand the $20,000 and $30,000 claims are current claims, Redietz.

Without the generous free play offers of years past these claims need explanations.

By the way my free play offers at Stations will be $10 only on four dates starting in June. Down from $15 on five dates in May and down from as much as $75 twice a week pre Covid with various dining offers and $75 table bets weekly.

They shouldn't explain anything, and if their smart, they'll shut the hell up!

And then you have the guy that posted the following at WoV in the "chasing quads instead of royals" thread.

And what if you make bad holds on purpose to condition the machine to think you are a bad player, then switch to optimal strategy in the same session and quit after the pity timer? Theoretically that should improve payback

This guy thinks the machines have developed artifical inteligence and is trying to "trick" that AI. :D BTW, if this sounds like an extention of the machines teleporting hot and cold cycles to the player, it is for good reason. :rolleyes:

"Pity timer". Great stuff! :cool:

I am down to playing machines (VP) at just a very few properties in Vegas these days because as has been mentioned the mailers are now crap at all but a few locations. BUT next time I am playing some VP coin in to generate mailer offers, I am going to call the slot attendant over and tell them they need to have some one check the machine because "the pity timer" is off. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

And then you have the guy that posted the following at WoV in the "chasing quads instead of royals" thread.

And what if you make bad holds on purpose to condition the machine to think you are a bad player, then switch to optimal strategy in the same session and quit after the pity timer? Theoretically that should improve payback

This guy thinks the machines have developed artifical inteligence and is trying to "trick" that AI. :D BTW, if this sounds like an extention of the machines teleporting hot and cold cycles to the player, it is for good reason. :rolleyes:

"Pity timer". Great stuff! :cool:

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The more of those idiots in casinos the better.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am down to playing machines (VP) at just a very few properties in Vegas these days because as has been mentioned the mailers are now crap at all but a few locations. BUT next time I am playing some VP coin in to generate mailer offers, I am going to call the slot attendant over and tell them they need to have some one check the machine because "the pity timer" is off. :rolleyes:

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Time to switch to +EV slot play.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am down to playing machines (VP) at just a very few properties in Vegas these days because as has been mentioned the mailers are now crap at all but a few locations. BUT next time I am playing some VP coin in to generate mailer offers, I am going to call the slot attendant over and tell them they need to have some one check the machine because "the pity timer" is off. :rolleyes:

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Time to switch to +EV slot play.

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You shouldn't suggest that I do that because you shouldn't want to create more competition. :D But I suspect you KNOW that I don't want to do that. It really doesn't interest me. I only got into the VP and mailer game, shortly after I moved to Vegas because an AP that I network with convinced me that not doing so was leaving money on the table. But I always hated playing VP. That is why as soon as my partner came along and got aclamated, I pushed that off on him.

Now it just so happens that in the last 6 months while I have been taking a break from many of my usual rotation blackjack games, for reasons I am sure you know about, that another AP that I communicate with and am now somewhat friendly with has thrown me some plays to fill some of that void. One of those plays was a (non VP) machine, I would have never wanted or thought to play. I had to be told exactly how to do the play. I hated playing that machine. That is just not me. I am a old school blackjack card counter AP. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I am down to playing machines (VP) at just a very few properties in Vegas these days because as has been mentioned the mailers are now crap at all but a few locations. BUT next time I am playing some VP coin in to generate mailer offers, I am going to call the slot attendant over and tell them they need to have some one check the machine because "the pity timer" is off. :rolleyes:

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Time to switch to +EV slot play.

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You shouldn't suggest that I do that because you shouldn't want to create more competition. :D But I suspect you KNOW that I don't want to do that. It really doesn't interest me. I only got into the VP and mailer game, shortly after I moved to Vegas because an AP that I network with convinced me that not doing so was leaving money on the table. But I always hated playing VP. That is why as soon as my partner came along and got aclamated, I pushed that off on him.

Now it just so happens that in the last 6 months while I have been taking a break from many of my usual rotation blackjack games, for reasons I am sure you know about, that another AP that I communicate with and am now somewhat friendly with has thrown me some plays to fill some of that void. One of those plays was a (non VP) machine, I would have never wanted or thought to play. I had to be told exactly how to do the play. I hated playing that machine. That is just not me. I am a old school blackjack card counter AP. :rolleyes:

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As someone whose slot "expertise" evaporated when the piggy bank games left town, I'm hoping slots eventually have an audio function that cries out, "I'm positive now, baby. Come and play me!" Maybe it can be in Mandarin or something, which I will learn to exploit the slots. Or Cantonese, for monet's wife.

I love the idea of a "pity function." I'm sure some hooker discounts can be had.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I understand the $20,000 and $30,000 claims are current claims, Redietz.

Without the generous free play offers of years past these claims need explanations.

By the way my free play offers at Stations will be $10 only on four dates starting in June. Down from $15 on five dates in May and down from as much as $75 twice a week pre Covid with various dining offers and $75 table bets weekly.

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Honestly, I know nothing about AC. Seems far fetched, but I have no real idea. AC is a strange place. You had the famous rebate winner operating there. You had "Owning Mahoney" occurring there. You have Beirut-looking areas a hundred yards from the highest end casinos. I don't know what all this place would do to attract players. Maybe it's possible. I know a friend of mine who plays primarily blackjack was comped in AC far better than anywhere else. Some of that was personal relationships with hosts, but it also suggests it's sometimes the Wild West in AC.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Mickeycrimm: Darkoz admitted he "invested" $60,000 into getting free play on 20 or 21 cards. How does that $60,000 figure into your estimation of his return?

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You are correct again Alan. (you are having a good day :)). Darkoz never mentioned, or if he did only mentioned once, that he needed a large coin in on each card to get those offers rolling. He probably didn't mention it because as you can see, there are members that aren't real happy when someone reveals how this play works. BUT not mentioning the initial coin in necessary, is like telling half the story, only the good part. It is similar to Mdawg only reporting his winning sessions.

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DO only mentioned the $60k figure once AND NOT IN RESPONSE TO A DIRECT QUESTION.

He revealed the $60k figure when he responded to another question about giving up. He said he didnt want to abandon the 60k he put into the cards.

Yes. He was hiding the 60k until it slipped out.

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DO also said he was picking up $200 a day from each card. So 60K loss on 20 cards is 3K per card. Picking up $200 a day for 30 days is 6K.

So 3K loss up front nets a 3K profit after 30 days.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I would like to know what casinos lock up free play levels for six months? Currently the casino companies I know reevaluate free play every two months.

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The key word in your statement is "currently." Most casinos, especially the Las Vegas casinos, cut back freeplay several years ago. And that includes the number of months they send it for.

DO was in a unique situation on the east coast. Triple digit freeplay everyday. That's what makes it exploitable. In Nevada you get it once a week or twice a month.

Alan, you just aren't going to find Nevada casinos giving out freeplay everyday but apparently they do it on the east coast.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I would like to know what casinos lock up free play levels for six months? Currently the casino companies I know reevaluate free play every two months.

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The key word in your statement is "currently." Most casinos, especially the Las Vegas casinos, cut back freeplay several years ago. And that includes the number of months they send it for.

DO was in a unique situation on the east coast. Triple digit freeplay everyday. That's what makes it exploitable. In Nevada you get it once a week or twice a month.

Alan, you just aren't going to find Nevada casinos giving out freeplay everyday.

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Question for you micketcrimm, or DO or any one else that wants to answer. If a player were doing what DO claims with as many as 20-30 different cards, wouldn't surveilance pick up on that player using different cards? :confused: Seems to me there was a case not too long ago, I think Colorado where they busted someone using someone else's card and that was a family member. Don't know if the were APing on a small scale or just using multiple cards of freinds and family. So it just seems like using 20-30 cards is going to get noticed. :confused:

I got busted by Harrahs Rincon by playing on my son's card to get him Diamond. I was no mailed. I never returned.

DO also has an 18 chapter thread about getting caught with multi carding and legal problems.

Here is a funny little thing. The "Lying Lawyer", not you MrV, the "Lying Lawyer" from Cali, is spending his suspension from WoV over at the funny farm forum where he and Moses post. So for a month now the 'Lying Lawyer" has been saying that I don't even play blackjack but rather am a video poker players. :D

Two things. Have I ever demonstrated any knowledge about Video Poker other than playing the mailer play being discussed at a smaller scale than most here? I don't even know the differnt strategies for some of the slightly 100+% games. I play or have played a bit of Bonus poker, getting my +EV from mailers. Meanwhile, the haters can say otherwise, but I think I have demonstrated a pretty thorough knowledge of card counting advantage play and even explained some of my twists and techniques that have provided me with some longevity. So what a stupid thing for the "Lying Lawyer" to now claim. These people make up anything. :D

The second thing is that for the last 6 months I have been forced to change what I do, branch out a bit as well as play less blackjack at most of my regular locations and a little more blackjack at the crowed casinos during peak times, when I blend in more. I have been forced to do this because that very guy, "the Lying Lawyer: doxed me and I beleive sent info to casinos and database. So he damn well knows who I am, where I live and yet he now is saying stupid shit, like I play video poker not blackjack. Why would it make this clown feel any better if I did play VP for a living instead of blackjack, which I don't. These guys, these haters are just flat out nuts! They really are in some alternative reality or universe, like the twilight zone.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Redietz check what Kewlj wrote.

How much free play do you get?

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The key word, Alan is currently. How things are now is not the way they always were. They used to send freeplay out in 6 month chunks. To many wiseguys taking advantage so they cut it back. Can you possible understand that?