The WoV Thread

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The only two things you have to do to be a Christian is:

1. Accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God and having died for your sins.

2. Repent of your sings

Thats it! You are now a Christian. You are saved. You are going to Heaven.

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Interesting claim; where's your proof?

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Proof of what? You believe what you want to and I'll believe what I want to. I don't have to prove a damn thing.

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Really?

Well then, it cuts both way, doesn't it?

You ask Singer to prove things: why should he bother?

If you provide no proof of such a bold assertion there is no reason for anyone else to try to prove anything to you, is there?

Believe what you want, but make no demands that others prove their claims either.

Turn about is fair play.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I grew up in both the Baptist Church and the Methodist Church as my parents were from each denomination. I even attended mass for awhile when I was young. If not for my Christian upbringing I would have been either dead or, as Merle Haggard put it, turned 21 in prison doing life without parole. There are a lot of snake oil salesmen in Christianity. They sell you a bag of goods that you have to do this or that. It's all hockeypuckey. Forget the Book of James. Forget the rest of the Bible. There is only Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. The only two things you have to do to be a Christian is:

1. Accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God and having died for your sins.

2. Repent of your sings

Thats it! You are now a Christian. You are saved. You are going to Heaven. Forget those snake oil salesmen that tell you you have to do this and that. Tell them to go to hell. I'm a confirmed Christian but I hate most preachers because they think I have to do this and that, and especially want my money. No the hell I don't and their not getting any of my money. I give plenty of money away but not to them assholes.

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the skeptic in me says you are no better than the preachers that you mock. Why is your vision of the reality of acceptance into heaven any more valid than the religious leaders vision.
And what is the definition of "repenting". Is it just a matter of going to confession and saying a few hail marys as directed by the priest. Is it doing volunteer work. dOES repenting for lying and repenting for assault carry different hoops to jump through in order to have the proper repentance .

Everyone has their own opinion f what is proper repentance. What is proof that you accept jesus. Can I just declare it as a jew to cover my bases.

When you look at all the pain and suffering in this world by innocent people, many of whom are god loving.....can you accept the possibility that if there is a god....its an indifferent god who doesnt care about you individually. Someone Who created life forms and then just walked away. Heck according to the bible, god would intervene personally with a bunch of small shit....make himself known and provided actionable events......yet he became very quite when the holocaust occured, or when other smaller genocides accured on this planet. When the world trade center attack occurred, when a child gets raped and killed.
When millions die of starvation. Like I said...if he exists....he seems to have walked away.

But when things go bad, and someones 6 year old daughter is raped and killed...it is a very comforting notion in order to maintain sanity, that there is a cgod now patting your child on the head in heaven and that the girl is now "with god" "in a better place" "with the angels" "is an angel" . It has to be a better way to cope with the harsh reality of life...so I give religion points for helping people deal with despair. Even if it is man made.(both the despair and the religion)

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have thought long and hard about whether to make this post. It will open me up to be attacked for those looking for a reason, perhaps even you Monet. I can live with that. As you may or may not know, I lost a dear friend earlier this month. He was young (50's) and died suddenly, without a chance to make any decisions regarding treatment options. Maybe that is the best way to go, I don't know. :confused:

Monet, I don't challenge your right to make any decision, your are contemplating. Things you are saying are not necessarily the decisions I would make....at least not based on the information you have or indicate you have, which I believe to be insufficient.

Perhaps you situation or condition is as dire as you have indicated. Maybe some sort of terminal thing, and the best option is for you to determine the timeline.

But just maybe it is not. What if it is some minor issue or condition that can be relatively easily treated by medication and or a relatively simple procedure? Or what if it is not so minor and the treatment option is not so easy, but still possible?

As AP's we make decisions based on as much information as we have available. I just don't feel you are doing that. You are making a decision before necessary....before you have come to that crossroad.

Monet, on behalf of my friend and all those like him, that didn't have a chance to make any decisions, I implore you to seek a diagnosis....find out what is wrong before making any decisions that you are making. Gather as much information as you can first and THEN make your decisions. THAT is the AP way. :)

Many / most diagnosis of things can be made by blood test where various 'markers' show up. Yes, often there are follow up tests necessary for confirmation. Big deal.

I am wishing you the best and hope you will accept this post and suggestions in the spirit it is intended and allow yourself all available information before making the decisions that are ultimately within your right to make.

Although we don't agree in many areas and I would not make many decisions you make, I would miss your posts and this community (AP and gambling) would be for the worse without your contributions.

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when it comes to these boards its sometimes hard to devote time and energy to everything that pops up. You have to pick your interests. Personally if someone has shown not to "ring true" then I am a bystander for things like this topic because it is an emotional topic, and I did spend my entire adult life helping people who wanted help.

For instance I do believe KJ on what he says about gambling and his personal life. Yes he lied before about his own death but there was good reason as a life preserving tactic. So what he has said rings true through the years even with that one "incident" that I may have used myself to preserve my life.

I generally believe MC even though we go back and forth. But I cant remember any real over lie . Same with Mr V over 25 years....no lies that I perceive.

But then you get to the levelof lies that are categorized as Bullshit, which ruins credibility just as it did for "the boy who cried wolf".

So Alan, Singer, monet fall into that group for me. Yes they may say truth...but then other stuff just gets in the way.

So with monet, he has created a persona, the loner AP that fights authority, that doesnt care what other APs think about him, that will give out info about AP "plays" and screw everyone who doesnt like it. He is also the guy that throw a bunch of 20 dollar bills down on homeless as they sit on the street, and the guy that has 750k in winnings reported to the govt by casinos that he hasnt paid taxes on. He want to commit suicide, but then he gos on juice cleansing diets to make his body feel better.

I remember when I was in college, Freddy Prinz committed suicide, and people were saying how they felt sorry for him. An all I could think of is....WTF....if he wants to die, fine. There are so many people in hospitals and outside of hospitals desperately fighting to live through their various disease states, going through great pain and anguish and discomfort doing everything they can to live. Wanting an extra day of precious life. Appreciatng what they have and not wanting to lose it. And Freddy Prinz just painlessly puts a bullet in his head.

So first I would have to believe monet which is a stretch, I mean I wlll believe his AP plays. But all the other stuff about his "persona" to me is a creation to make people believe he is a badass, rule breaker, shady, lying individual. That is the ma he presents to us. He also presnts to us a man who is ill and wants to commit suicide in between cleansing his body to make himself healthier. Maybe its true. Maybe not.

But then again this is a gambling message board. If this were a suicide hotline, I would approach it differently. If he was seriously looking for help...he wouldnt be looking forit here. Being told by nameless faceless strangers that buy into his badass persona should really do nothing to sway him one way or theother.

He will do what he wants to do. If he wants to get help he knows this isnt the place for it. He knows where to go. He is like Freddy Prinz. Except Prinz put a quick bullet inhis head. And monet is allowing mother nature to ravage his body without intervention. Its a slower process. And he has the right to do it just as FP did.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Interesting claim; where's your proof?

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Proof of what? You believe what you want to and I'll believe what I want to. I don't have to prove a damn thing.

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I'm not the one that started the "prove it" bullshit. Singer stared that crap. Any time an AP writes about what he does Singer jumps in with the"prove it" bullshit" bullshiy. That asshole has never proven any of his claims but has the gall to demand that others prove their. Fuck off and die. As long as he keeps that shit up I'll keep hammering him to prove his own stuuf.

Really?

Well then, it cuts both way, doesn't it?

You ask Singer to prove things: why should he bother?

If you provide no proof of such a bold assertion there is no reason for anyone else to try to prove anything to you, is there?

Believe what you want, but make no demands that others prove their claims either.

Turn about is fair play.

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I'm posting from my phone so screwing up the posts. I'm on a Crank's Bash play and trying to post at the same time. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Interesting claim; where's your proof?

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A famous physicist - I actually forget who, off hand - said that "There is nothing behind matter." But, if we take God in the form of a being, or impersonal god in the form of true matter and space/time, and science as a well-defined approach or limit of limits, in the form of an equation of equations, or a model of models, then we can determine such a material limit, and hence get behind it, and beyond ourselves, by the thrust, or logical implication in direction, of such a limit.

Rather than seek new theories, we have to seek a theory that will tell us what the next theory is, and, then, the next, so we can see where it all ends/starts. This limit of limits, which is still only true matter and space/time, may still also do so or achieve such a limit at a particular instant in an arrangement of things we can relate to to reveal its purpose and reason to us. A god may still be also the God. With a full death with a full and separate life in its own, true space and time.

an the goat footed balloon man whistles far and wee

Mickey, you said there is a "heaven" and if people believe in Jesus and repent they will go there.

I only ask for some empirical proof that heaven does in fact exist.

Absent such proof I can only conclude you are parroting the notions which have been drilled into your brain over the years by family and friends.

It would seem you've been mind-fucked about this subject; go out and search for proof; question what you've been told is true, especially about something as significant as the notion of an afterlife / heaven.

I believe it cannot be proven, it is a matter of "faith," i.e. the blanket acceptance of an unverified claim simply because you desperately want it to be true.

That's not an advantage play, it's ploppie-thinking.

Its as vague as patricks "3 in a row time to go". Go home? go to eat? go to the parking lot and then come back into the casino? go take a shit and then resume palying?

So we have to "repent" for our sins.So what does that mean? What is gods definition of "repent". And we have to recognize jesus as the son of god who died for out sins. What does that mean. What is the proper recognition.

what if you dont "accept it" in the proper way? Do you go to hell? What if you dont repent in the proper way....do you go to hell.

Is there a proper way to do these things so we are not wasting our time repenting and accepting jesus in the wrong manner? Someone please lay it out. Its a matter of eternity in heaven or hell. Its pretty important.

what a fucking downer if someone spent theirlife thinking that they repented and accepted jesus as the son of god, and was told they didnt do it the right way.

Do they do community service in order to repent? Do they just delcare that they repented and the slate is wiped clean? Do they donate a million dollars to the church...can you buy repentance?

Christianity is a minority religion in the world......thats a fuck load of people not going to heaven. So MC is saying that the innocent young children born in Africa who never get exposed to christianity are destined to hell. They dont even get a choice in the manner. They will never have heard of "jesus"... yet they are fucked.

what kind of loving god allows that to happen.

Check out the liturgy of the catholic church for a bunch of draconian bullshit.

The holy ghost?

Original sin?

Confession?

Bah, just a multi-century ongoing mindfucking to keep the sheep donating to the church.

Religion is just "faith without proof" and as such essentially unacceptable to educated men; it should have been thrown onto the dungheap during the Englightenment.

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Originally Posted by LarryS

an the goat footed balloon man whistles far and wee

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I should hope so. It beats getting old with nothing better to do than to worry about how much money you will have when you die.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I believe it cannot be proven, it is a matter of "faith," i.e. the blanket acceptance of an unverified claim simply because you desperately want it to be true.

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Perhaps, desperation is the mother of invention. Or is that the father?

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Check out the liturgy of the catholic church for a bunch of draconian bullshit.

The holy ghost?

Original sin?

Confession?

Bah, just a multi-century ongoing mindfucking to keep the sheep donating to the church.

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Depends on how those words are interpreted. There are other words and phrases there too, that you might not have picked up on, or that were not adequately pointed out to you.

You athiests can all go to hell. The quicker the better.And no its not ploppie thinking. Its a freeroll.

There are no freerolls.

Do you guys really want to know or are you just going to believe your world view is correct no matter what? I don't think you really want the truth. You can't handle the truth!

is it christlike to tell someone to go to hell?

here is someone who thinks he goes to heaven if he accepts christ as the son of god and recognizes that he died for our sins.....but you obviously dont have to follow him. Just recognize him and you punch a ticket to heaven.

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Originally Posted by quahaug

Do you guys really want to know or are you just going to believe your world view is correct no matter what? I don't think you really want the truth. You can't handle the truth!

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please tell the truth

Religion is the #1 cause of wars in history.

Yes, this forum is a joke.

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Originally Posted by LarryS

Its as vague as patricks "3 in a row time to go". Go home? go to eat? go to the parking lot and then come back into the casino? go take a shit and then resume palying?

So we have to "repent" for our sins.So what does that mean? What is gods definition of "repent". And we have to recognize jesus as the son of god who died for out sins. What does that mean. What is the proper recognition.

what if you dont "accept it" in the proper way? Do you go to hell? What if you dont repent in the proper way....do you go to hell.

Is there a proper way to do these things so we are not wasting our time repenting and accepting jesus in the wrong manner? Someone please lay it out. Its a matter of eternity in heaven or hell. Its pretty important.

what a fucking downer if someone spent theirlife thinking that they repented and accepted jesus as the son of god, and was told they didnt do it the right way.

Do they do community service in order to repent? Do they just delcare that they repented and the slate is wiped clean? Do they donate a million dollars to the church...can you buy repentance?

Christianity is a minority religion in the world......thats a fuck load of people not going to heaven. So MC is saying that the innocent young children born in Africa who never get exposed to christianity are destined to hell. They dont even get a choice in the manner. They will never have heard of "jesus"... yet they are fucked.

what kind of loving god allows that to happen.

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Larry
I will agree to disagree with you and MrV on what my beliefs are vs. yours. To each his own.

One minor bone to pick with you though. You state Christianity is a minority religion and I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) it is still number 1 with over 2 billion followers. About a third of the worlds population.