Overcomped

If players don't know how to get the very, very most out of whatever's offered thru their slot club programs then they might as well wear a great big "I Am A Sap!" sign whenever they go to that particular casino or casino chain.

That, however, never translates into anyone ever being "overcomped" just because they seem to feel they're pulling the wool over casino eyes by supposedly gaming the system. If that were the case, myself and hundreds of players I know would have used such terminology in the past 20 years, but here is the only place you'll find that claim.

Indeed, don't you think Jean Scott would have written about this phenomena in her book? Just because someone squeezes as much as possible out of any slot club program--and who doesn't--does not mean at any point that they are receiving things they really didn't earn. And just because someone stops receiving said benefits does not mean they have suddenly been transformed into someone who is now to be labeled as overcomped. It simply means NO MORE COMPS UNLESS AND UNTIL YOU START PLAYING AGAIN.

It's amazing to continue seeing this "overcomped" hoax perpetuated--and in some cases, believed--here.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

If players don't know how to get the very, very most out of whatever's offered thru their slot club programs then they might as well wear a great big "I Am A Sap!" sign whenever they go to that particular casino or casino chain.

That, however, never translates into anyone ever being "overcomped" just because they seem to feel they're pulling the wool over casino eyes by supposedly gaming the system. If that were the case, myself and hundreds of players I know would have used such terminology in the past 20 years, but here is the only place you'll find that claim.

Indeed, don't you think Jean Scott would have written about this phenomena in her book? Just because someone squeezes as much as possible out of any slot club program--and who doesn't--does not mean at any point that they are receiving things they really didn't earn. And just because someone stops receiving said benefits does not mean they have suddenly been transformed into someone who is now to be labeled as overcomped. It simply means NO MORE COMPS UNLESS AND UNTIL YOU START PLAYING AGAIN.

It's amazing to continue seeing this "overcomped" hoax perpetuated--and in some cases, believed--here.

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Rob, you are too stubborn to ever admit I am right about this.

The reason one can get overcomped is because the Seven Stars program guarantees benefits, even if you do a ton of no-play stays. This is different than every other casino group's loyalty program, where you are never earning any kind of recurring benefit which isn't tied to ongoing play.

The basic casino comp model -- and this has existed for decades -- is only to comp those playing actively. This is because someone gambling heavily today may not be gambling heavily next month (usually due to going broke), so casinos are very careful to turn off the comp spigot when it becomes clear your playing days are over (or seriously curtailed).

The Seven Stars program contradicts this, as it allows you to get 4 nights of hotel stays at any property REGARDLESS of whether you have been playing or not.

This factor is what allows you to get overcomped.

CET is very aware this occurs, but for some reason they aren't changing it -- at least not for now. I think part of the reason is because of the success of its Total Rewards program and its guaranteed Seven Stars benefits, so they see the overcompers are a necessarily evil, knowing that most of them will make up a small minority of overall Seven Stars players.

Rob, you supposedly advocate to always look to do the opposite of what the casino wants you to do.

I agree with that principle, yet it seems like when people report doing such that, you mock it and doubt the veracity of their claims.

Dan let me just sum up the situation as I see it: it doesn't matter if you're overcomped or undercomped. I just hope, for your sake, that you are able to get the free rooms and other comps and offers you really want and need. If you can't get your free rooms for the WSOP or you can't get invited to an event that you really wanted then does it make a difference if you're overcomped or undercomped? No. The bottom line is you're not getting.

I hope you get what you want and need. Titles don't matter.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Rob, you are too stubborn to ever admit I am right about this.

The reason one can get overcomped is because the Seven Stars program guarantees benefits, even if you do a ton of no-play stays. This is different than every other casino group's loyalty program, where you are never earning any kind of recurring benefit which isn't tied to ongoing play.

The basic casino comp model -- and this has existed for decades -- is only to comp those playing actively. This is because someone gambling heavily today may not be gambling heavily next month (usually due to going broke), so casinos are very careful to turn off the comp spigot when it becomes clear your playing days are over (or seriously curtailed).

The Seven Stars program contradicts this, as it allows you to get 4 nights of hotel stays at any property REGARDLESS of whether you have been playing or not.

This factor is what allows you to get overcomped.

CET is very aware this occurs, but for some reason they aren't changing it -- at least not for now. I think part of the reason is because of the success of its Total Rewards program and its guaranteed Seven Stars benefits, so they see the overcompers are a necessarily evil, knowing that most of them will make up a small minority of overall Seven Stars players.

Rob, you supposedly advocate to always look to do the opposite of what the casino wants you to do.

I agree with that principle, yet it seems like when people report doing such that, you mock it and doubt the veracity of their claims.

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Dan, I think you are up against an old guy on a fixed income that lashes out. Jealousy and envy are evident here.

CET does some odd things to get you back to the Casino. I've spent a total of 3 days in Las Vegas this year and we did very little gambling, really only one night. We ran through $200 or so between the 3 of us waiting for the show to start at Caesars (and cashed out $295), score. Yet I can go on the website and get my choice of hotels for 5 days comped, free play, food vouchers, etc. We did see a couple of shows and had dinner at BLT and Ramsay Steak, so CET made some money off of me and that may be more why they want us back.

So I do believe CET will do what it takes to get the bigger spenders back in the door. My guess is the expectation that those that abuse the system will be more than offset by those that are addicted to the system. Those that are abusing the system are still spending money, so it's probably a wash for the casino.

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Originally Posted by james40

So I do believe CET will do what it takes to get the bigger spenders back in the door. My guess is the expectation that those that abuse the system will be more than offset by those that are addicted to the system. Those that are abusing the system are still spending money, so it's probably a wash for the casino.

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It's called marketing. They want you in the door and have figured out a great way to get you in the door. Hopefully, you will gamble or eat or see a show or all of the above. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be doing it.

[QUOTE=Rob.Singer;43884]If players don't know how to get the very, very most out of whatever's offered thru their slot club programs then they might as well wear a great big "I Am A Sap!" sign whenever they go to that particular casino or casino chain.

Reminds me of a wedding years ago. The bride's family was named Saperstein. Half the guests were wearing a hat that said "I am a Sap".

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Originally Posted by regnis

It's called marketing. They want you in the door and have figured out a great way to get you in the door. Hopefully, you will gamble or eat or see a show or all of the above. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be doing it.

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There will come a point where everyone who abuses the system to the point of being "overcomped" will be cut off and will then be "undercomped." Over course they might hang on to the overcomped label in their own minds and never realize they have become undercomped.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

There will come a point where everyone who abuses the system to the point of being "overcomped" will be cut off and will then be "undercomped." Over course they might hang on to the overcomped label in their own minds and never realize they have become undercomped.

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Is there a reason you use the word "abuses" versus "uses?"

I don't see why the word "abuses" is called for here. The system exists. If you play by the rules of the system, as Dan does, by definition he is not "abusing" the system.

There are people who do abuse the system. I was not referring to Dan, but frankly I don't know what Dan has done that has pushed him to the point where hosts won't deal with him.

There are people who abuse the system by asking and then demanding too much. I've been in the hosts' office (it's an open office so you can hear the various conversations) and you can hear about the abuse and the demands from players. Some of them are openly rude about it.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

There are people who do abuse the system. I was not referring to Dan, but frankly I don't know what Dan has done that has pushed him to the point where hosts won't deal with him.

There are people who abuse the system by asking and then demanding too much. I've been in the hosts' office (it's an open office so you can hear the various conversations) and you can hear about the abuse and the demands from players. Some of them are openly rude about it.

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Dan was taking full advantage of his card status, without spending a corresponding amount to trigger additional benefits, hence the soft 86. Overcomped has become undercomped and the CET universe is back in balance.

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Originally Posted by james40

Dan was taking full advantage of his card status, without spending a corresponding amount to trigger additional benefits, hence the soft 86. Overcomped has become undercomped and the CET universe is back in balance.

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I wonder... Dan do you consider yourself undercomped now? Or are you still overcomped?

If Dan continues to play without getting comps, then he'd become under-comped. If he stopped getting comps and stopped playing, then he'd still be over-comped (assuming he was over-comped to begin with).

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Originally Posted by RS__

If Dan continues to play without getting comps, then he'd become under-comped. If he stopped getting comps and stopped playing, then he'd still be over-comped (assuming he was over-comped to begin with).

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Question: at what point does overcomped become undercomped? Is there a dollar value or numerical indicator? Can I say I'm overcomped because my host gave me five rooms for my out-of-town relatives one weekend?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Question: at what point does overcomped become undercomped? Is there a dollar value or numerical indicator? Can I say I'm overcomped because my host gave me five rooms for my out-of-town relatives one weekend?

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Maybe. Maybe not. Depends what your theoretical loss is/was.

Forget the theoretical. Let's talk real money.

If you have a loss playing in the casino, can you be overcomped?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

If you have a loss playing in the casino, can you be overcomped?

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"THAWACK!" -- the sound of a dead horse being beaten.:eek:

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Originally Posted by FABismonte

"THAWACK!" -- the sound of a dead horse being beaten.:eek:

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Quite the contrary. This is a reality check, Fab.

Quite frankly there is too much loose talk here about people who claim to beat the casinos who are giving a false impression to the general public about the true value of comps and why casinos give comps and how comps are designed as a lure and not as a reward. They are a loss rebate and nothing more UNLESS you happen to have a profit from playing in the casino. Then, AND ONLY THEN, can someone claim to be overcomped. Otherwise, those much heralded comps are nothing more than a rebate on your losses.

I wrote this before: if someone is going to claim they are overcomped (and I don't mean "overcomped" because a casino host said you're overcomped) then they will have to present an accurate and honest accounting of their actual cost of gambling (win/loss) and the value of the comps received. Telling us that a host told you that you were "overcomped" doesn't mean the casino didn't make a boatload of money off of you. It could mean you received enough of a loss rebate and you're not entitled to any more... or... they think you're busted and not coming back.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I wrote this before: if someone is going to claim they are overcomped (and I don't mean "overcomped" because a casino host said you're overcomped) then they will have to present an accurate and honest accounting of their actual cost of gambling (win/loss) and the value of the comps received.

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They will have to? Really?...why? For what purpose must they present this accounting?

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Originally Posted by coach belly

They will have to? Really?...why? For what purpose must they present this accounting?

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To convince me that they are really "overcomped."

Anyone can say they're overcomped. Just give me a basket of cookies and I could say I'm overcomped. It's all BS.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

To convince me that they are really "overcomped."

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I understand.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

an accurate and honest accounting of their actual cost of gambling (win/loss) and the value of the comps received.

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Such an accounting shouldn't be too difficult to provide, whether or not you'll accept the accounting as honest or accurate is another story.

Do you know Todd Witteles to be dishonest, or expect him to be dishonest, should he choose to provide the information you require?