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Wrong again. The payback IS the return. The payback for 9/6 JoB is 99.54%. The return is also 99.54%. Both are ONLY achievable with optimal play. "Return" is just a substituted word for "payback" by some people. They're meanings are exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
OK if you want to use them to mean the same thing I am not going to argue with you. Then what word do you use to differentiate between what you should get when you play and what you actually get when you play?
Expected Results / expectation / EV are what you should get back/lose (or win if you have an advantage).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Actual Results are what you actually get back/win/lose.
Theoretical [Loss] is often substituted for expected results. BUT when dealing with the casino, your theoretical loss is going to be higher than your expected results -- because they expect you to be playing with a non-optimal strategy.
But the payback/return of the game is (say 99.54% for 9/6 JOB) with optimal strategy, or a -0.46% EV. For typical gamblers who don't know what they're doing, I'd say it's in the 2.2% to 4% range...since that's what the theoreticals are set to on many of those machines.
That's where variance comes in. JoB = low variance. TDB = super high variance. The bigger the swings, the higher the variance. Nobody will get exactly the expected payback on any given session. You preferably want positive variance, or "luck" as you call it.
Good. But each of those are conditional based on how the player plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
What I am looking for is a specific term to separate the defined paytable and what players actually walk away with? We writers need to know.
Not again. Now we get to hear Alan tell us how is overcomes the EV by setting goals. SuperAlan, the math slayer.
He's still in the hole lifetime. He hasn't overcome anything.
Jbjb do you want to show us your tax returns? So far we have three all time winners here: jbjb, Arc and Rob Singer.
By arcimede$' standards...if he claims to have won, but does not provide proof, then he is lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
OK Enough for me. Every discussion turns into a piss party.
And you claim to have gambling experience? I'd like to see your high school diploma first.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
The RETURN is not 99.54%. That's the EXPECTED return over an indeterminable/theoretical amount of play. And optimal play on that game can result in ANY actual return.
You really don't know that?
Rob, get your wife's dick out of your mouth so we can understand you!
Over a short period of time, yes anything can, might and will happen. I've said before that I got a royal on my 6th hand with the 5 before it being a loser. I cashed out and quit immediately. So for those six hands on 9/6 JoB, I got a huge ACTUAL RETURN. Those numbers are for every possible combination. I think we all get that. Again, you both don't understand variance and standard deviation. So try again trailer trash.
I am more concerned with mature discussion and proper definition of terms. In other words, a better use of the English language, something which jbjb fails at.
jbjb is using the proper terms..
Why do you lie? Fact is I have never said that at all. I have simply pointed out that we don't know and if other evidence indicates otherwise there is good reason to doubt the claims. You know, like living in a small apartment, getting evicted and then moving to a trailer park.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Still waiting for you to admit you relationship to Rob.
Time to bump this thread...
I was playing just to get points on this machine originally playing bonus. I was only a few hundred dollars play through the machine away from the goal so switched to Triple Double Bonus.
I was dealt: 3 3 3 2 Q. I held the 3 3 3 2 for the kicker big win. I figured I would draw 2 or 3, maybe 4 at most fourth 3's but ended up drawing......
https://youtu.be/s4eMcqbh6rI
Very F'ing nice!!! 8 out of a hundred when the expected amount is only 2. Just awesome!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Congratulations and thanks for posting. That was gutsy. You played correct strategy for Triple Double Bonus but I admit I wouldn't have. I would have just held the three 3s and hoped for more quads. Yes, I would have used one of Rob's "special plays". But then, I am not a regular TDB player. And you were on a 100 play machine which gave you a lot of potential wins with kicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK
Thanks. I debated the play for a minute. Then I decided to record it.
Your recording supports the "correct strategy."Quote:
Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK