A costly error in VP

I was playing $1 DDB today using my modified "Singer Strategy" when I committed a very costly error--one that I will never make again!

Having a session bankroll of $1800 I managed to parlay that into $4080 when I decided to cash out. Since the money kiosks don't dispense more than $2000 I had to redeem the ticket at the cashier, which was on the other side of the casino.

After she scanned the ticket she asked me if I would like the $2000 in hundreds or twenties. "Two thousand?" I said. Yes, "two thousand," she repeated back as she showed me the ticket I just gave her. Oh my god I thought; the machine didn't dispense the full amount and I didn't think to check the value of the ticket. I just took it for granted that it would have dispensed the full amount when I cashed out.

So I raced back there and, of course, the rest of my $2080 was gone. I was instantly sickened and just left. I couldn't believe I did something so stupid after all these years of playing VP. I should've known better.

I guess the lesson here is don't get distracted by everything that's going on
around you, and to always verify the ticket amount cashed out and make sure the credits read $0. Easily the most costly error I've ever made in a single session of VP. One that I won't soon forget.

Canucknut thank you for joining us and for posting but I'm sorry that this was your first post. That is an absolute shame. I am curious where this happened? At most of the California casinos the machines start spitting out tickets when the credit balance is $1,000 or more. At Rincon in San Diego the tickets start coming at $1200. I've even heard of California casinos that spit out tickets when the credit meter reads as low as $600 on certain low-denomination games.

At Caesars in Vegas I've seen the credit meters build up to several thousand dollars and no tickets are spit out. However, when you hit the cash out button one ticket is dispensed for the full amount. I once got a ticket at Caesars for $5,000.

I've been thinking about this and here's a case where you definitely want to check with security to be sure that casino personnel didn't cash out the machine, and if they can use their eye in the sky tapes to determine who did. I was at Rincon when a slot floorperson found credits on a $5 video poker machine and cashed them out -- but not before asking me if I had been playing the machine (I was on a nearby machine). I am sure that they would have given the TITO to a player who came in and reported that they were on the machine -- and that of course can be verified with through surveillance or players card data.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I've been thinking about this and here's a case where you definitely want to check with security to be sure that casino personnel didn't cash out the machine, and if they can use their eye in the sky tapes to determine who did. I was at Rincon when a slot floorperson found credits on a $5 video poker machine and cashed them out -- but not before asking me if I had been playing the machine (I was on a nearby machine). I am sure that they would have given the TITO to a player who came in and reported that they were on the machine -- and that of course can be verified with through surveillance or players card data.

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Wow! Sad story. I believe they would have been in trouble at my casino. I've had personnel stop me and show me money on the floor or credits on the machine-telling me they can't touch it. I have had the pleasure of turning in several purses to management.

If there were credits on an unattended machine it is far more likely someone saw them and just cashed it out. Most people in casinos are only aware of one thing--money, and when it appears out of nowhere they take it and aren't concerned at all about whether it's OK. We talk about the laws and proper reactions here, but when the "gift" happens upon you especially in a casino, it's a completely different story.

I've seen machines spit out tickets after reaching anywhere from $400 to my personal highest, which I think was around $6400. It must be something they can set from the menu, although I didn't see that feature when I had a machine.

Gee Rob, you surprised me:

1. You said nothing about win goals.
2. You said nothing about "finders keepers, losers weepers" when it applied to one of your followers.

Didn't he cashout ahead? That's what counts. I don't teach players they have to do exactly as I do; they learn to change the way they've been playing to a more enjoyable method, and to quit when they get ahead some amount that's comfortable to them, or if they're losing much of their bankroll and suddenly find themselves slightly ahead or ahead by any amount, they should be thankful and quit.

The "loser's weepers" doctrine was more eloquently said in my first para.

Hi Alan,

Thanks for welcoming me. I discovered you through Singer's (retired) website and the subsequent videos you did with him. I have been "lurking" around your forum for a bit and decided to join. I think you do a fine job running this forum and really admire (and appreciate) your penchant for freedom of speech and toleration for differences of opinion. It seems to fit well with my own libertarian philosophy.

As my handle might imply, I am from Canada and live in the province of Ontario.

This incident happened at Caesars in Windsor. It was on a Bally Game Maker machine. Now it does say (like others I've played around the province) that it pays up to $2000 and that any amount beyond that will require a hand pay. And that has happened to me before where I had something like $2700 (at another casino in toronto) and when I tried to cash the ticket out, it generated a hand pay and I had to wait for the attendent.

But this time when I hit the button to cash out the machine didn't lock up so i took it for granted that it was printing the full amount. At the same time I got focused on something else across the casino floor and just had my hand over the ticket dispenser and never thought to actually look at the ticket amount as I grabed it and headed for the cashier. So stupid of me, I know.

I'm done beating myself up over it, though. Now I just try to look at it as a donation to someone who needed the money more than me.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Canucknut thank you for joining us and for posting but I'm sorry that this was your first post. That is an absolute shame. I am curious where this happened? At most of the California casinos the machines start spitting out tickets when the credit balance is $1,000 or more. At Rincon in San Diego the tickets start coming at $1200. I've even heard of California casinos that spit out tickets when the credit meter reads as low as $600 on certain low-denomination games.

At Caesars in Vegas I've seen the credit meters build up to several thousand dollars and no tickets are spit out. However, when you hit the cash out button one ticket is dispensed for the full amount. I once got a ticket at Caesars for $5,000.

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That is true, Rob. I did cash out ahead. Except I went home with only $200 more than what I came with instead of the $2280 I should have went home with.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Didn't he cashout ahead? That's what counts. I don't teach players they have to do exactly as I do; they learn to change the way they've been playing to a more enjoyable method, and to quit when they get ahead some amount that's comfortable to them, or if they're losing much of their bankroll and suddenly find themselves slightly ahead or ahead by any amount, they should be thankful and quit.

The "loser's weepers" doctrine was more eloquently said in my first para.

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While it puts a pit in the stomach, at least you went home with more than you came with. So as a consolation, you can say what the AP's would say: "at least I got the points!"

Actually, I can't say that because I no longer use a slot club card. It reinforces in me the fact that I am only there for the money.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

While it puts a pit in the stomach, at least you went home with more than you came with. So as a consolation, you can say what the AP's would say: "at least I got the points!"

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Canucknut, I just need to know if you made any effort to contact security or the floor people... just in case they cashed out your credits and are holding them to be claimed??

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Originally Posted by Canucknut

Actually, I can't say that because I no longer use a slot club card. It reinforces in me the fact that I am only there for the money.

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Thank you for saying that because it is one important way to do exactly the opposite of what the casinos want and expect you to do. I was surprised Alan didn't jump on you for that, but as everyone who has ever played will attest to if they're being truthful, playing only for the money when, where, and how you like is far superior to being roped in by the casinos for their comps, promotions, and "freebies". Simple common sense readily tells the strong player that those "illusions" only and always lead to losing.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

playing only for the money when, where, and how you like is far superior to being roped in by the casinos for their comps, promotions, and "freebies". Simple common sense readily tells the strong player that those "illusions" only and always lead to losing.

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Rob, I only hope you can convince a lot more people not to play with their club cards, so that more of the casino comps are left for us "small folks" who do value the comps, promotions and freebies. The fewer you take... the more the rest of us will have to share.

Canucknut: I still want to know if you tried to alert casino personnel when you realized you left $2080 in credits on the machine? And if so, what did they say or do? Did they try to help or just shrug?

As one who doesn't chase and complain about comps, I still don't see what harm there is in taking what they give you. What is wrong with a free room or free buffet or whatever.

I can't ever remember gambling extra in order to get something from a casino. In fact, last week at Horseshoe, I had accumulated 2300 points. Per one of Alan's earlier threads, I probably should have stayed a little longer to get 2,500 and then the 5,000 bonus points. But I wasn't thinking about it at the time and didn't realize it till I had left. Leaving at 2300 was actually stupid. But again, I don't really play for the comps but I see nothing wrong with taking what they give me.

At the race track, if you bet with your player's card, your number is printed on the ticket or voucher and so if someone finds it and turns it in, management will look up the number and come find you. Also, if someone else finds it and uses it, if that person puts his player card in, they can trace it to that player and will bring security in to attempt to make him give it back. Usually, when caught, they will say oh I didn't realize it--the other guy must have left it in the machine. So only if he finds it and cashes it can it not be traced.

I wonder why the casino can't do something similar for cases like Canuck.

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Originally Posted by regnis

At the race track, if you bet with your player's card, your number is printed on the ticket or voucher and so if someone finds it and turns it in, management will look up the number and come find you. Also, if someone else finds it and uses it, if that person puts his player card in, they can trace it to that player and will bring security in to attempt to make him give it back. Usually, when caught, they will say oh I didn't realize it--the other guy must have left it in the machine. So only if he finds it and cashes it can it not be traced.
I wonder why the casino can't do something similar for cases like Canuck.

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This is an excellent idea!! There could be an option when you insert your players card that asks: would you like tickets printed with your account number?

This would strictly be a safety option. The casino already knows your betting and win/loss, and Uncle Sam would know if you hit a jackpot because of the W2G requirements. So why not add this safety feature for machine play?

I love this idea!!

It is a rare person indeed who is not compelled by the slot club fluff. but there are some. The rest? Well, they know what they're doing and they know why they have the results they do.

Rob using a players card is not a sign of addiction and it is not a precursor to bankruptcy. Not using one, however, is like leaving money on the table... or credits in the machine.

You're confusing what I said and meant. Slot card use absolutely turns into an addiction. If you want to try and deny that, see what happens to you and identify what you go thru when you DON'T use one. And it is not much different than having an uncontrollable urge to be reading and posting on multiple gaming forums endlessly. I recognized that problem years ago, and it is the main reason--along with the fact that I have a very interesting REAL life these days--that I only post regularly on one and occasionally read vpFree. Bob Dancer also criticized forum zombies on his radioshow recently, although one would readily think someone like that who, at his advanced age where he really should be retired, spends way too much time at the vp machines--another gargantuan waste of one's time and life.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Slot card use absolutely turns into an addiction.

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Absurd. I played at Bellagio without a card. I played at Wynn without a card. I played at Venetian without a card. Why? Because at Wynn and Venetian they were "one time visits" and at Bellagio I was afraid they'd throw me out. (LOL)

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

. Slot card use absolutely turns into an addiction.

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I have always used player's cards and I am not addicted. In fact, you play a lot more VP than I do.

Hi Alan,

No, I made no such attempt. It happened so fast and I was so shocked (and embarrased) that it didn't really occur to me to notify casino personnel. Of course, in retrospect I should have immediately done just that.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Canucknut, I just need to know if you made any effort to contact security or the floor people... just in case they cashed out your credits and are holding them to be claimed??

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Absurd. I played at Bellagio without a card. I played at Wynn without a card. I played at Venetian without a card. Why? Because at Wynn and Venetian they were "one time visits" and at Bellagio I was afraid they'd throw me out. (LOL)

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Cmon Alan, try playing at your precious Ceasars without one. Then report back.

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Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I have always used player's cards and I am not addicted. In fact, you play a lot more VP than I do.

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These days I may not. I'll put the same "challenge" to you: when you do go back to play, try not playing with your slot club cards during the trip. Betcha can't do it.

Hi All,

Regarding my decision not to use a slot club card: 1) I don't want the casino keeping specific tabs on what games I play and how I play. 2) Comps for video poker players at this casino absolutely suck. 3) My style of (fast) play doesn't lend itself well to the use of a club card for me. I'll easily cycle through 20+ machines 2, 3, or 4 times in a session.

However, there was a time when I did use the club card religiously and I found that it did tend to promote addiction in me. But I would never claim that the use of a club card promotes addiction for everyone. There may be some who are disciplined enough not to get roped in by it; I don't personally know anyone like that but I'm willing to admit the possibility of it.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Cmon Alan, try playing at your precious Ceasars without one. Then report back.

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Well of course Im going to use my card at Caesars. This is the casino where I play, where I get my offers and my comps, and all of the fringe benefits of playing. When you have a casino you frequent of course you use their card.... except if you're Rob Singer.

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Originally Posted by Canucknut

Hi Alan,

No, I made no such attempt. It happened so fast and I was so shocked (and embarrased) that it didn't really occur to me to notify casino personnel. Of course, in retrospect I should have immediately done just that.

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Just in case, I would try now. At worst... maybe security can pull up the video of when you played and they can see who cashed out your money. At best, someone might recognize that person and if approached they might "do the right thing" and give you the cash.

You might also see it was cashed out by a casino employee.

You have NOTHING to lose and $2,080 to gain.

Welcome to the board Canucknut. Sorry about what happened to you what a kick in the head that is! You are now due a huge Royal to get that money back.
Hey I have a question. Would you mind going over your strategy for me as it sounds interesting. I'm always looking for new approaches in my play and yours sounds like something I may want to try. Good luck in the future and again Welcome.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

These days I may not. I'll put the same "challenge" to you: when you do go back to play, try not playing with your slot club cards during the trip. Betcha can't do it.

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Why would anyone play without a card unless it is a one time visit? They are money in the bank. The fact Singer claims he often doesn't use a card just demonstrates a complete lack of intelligence.

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Originally Posted by arcimede$

Why would anyone play without a card unless it is a one time visit? They are money in the bank. The fact Singer claims he often doesn't use a card just demonstrates a complete lack of intelligence.

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Or a lot of discipline.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Or a lot of discipline.

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Only by those without any common sense.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

Or a lot of discipline.

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Discipline? Just what kind of discipline are you talking about? Was the player's hand slapped repeatedly by his father for scratching his butt and so reaching for his wallet to retrieve a player's card reminds him of the hand slapping for his previous butt scratching?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Discipline? Just what kind of discipline are you talking about? Was the player's hand slapped repeatedly by his father for scratching his butt and so reaching for his wallet to retrieve a player's card reminds him of the hand slapping for his previous butt scratching?

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I think it was a challenge. But from your replies, I think you guys must scratch your butt every time you scratch your face.

Slingshot please give ONE reason not to play with your card other than:

1. Rob says not to.
2. Rob says it's addictive.
3. Because the casinos want you to.
4. Because I will never be able to get any benefits as I won't play enough and won't return

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Slingshot please give ONE reason not to play with your card other than:

1. Rob says not to.
2. Rob says it's addictive.
3. Because the casinos want you to.
4. Because I will never be able to get any benefits as I won't play enough and won't return

Thanks

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Oh I use mine all the time. I think Rob was just trying to point out something . I AM able to leave a machine if it doesn't suit me and not continue playing just for the points.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

These days I may not. I'll put the same "challenge" to you: when you do go back to play, try not playing with your slot club cards during the trip. Betcha can't do it.

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Which addiction are you discussing: a) using a player's card leads to casino addiction (and the proverbial chasing of comps) or b) once you have entered the casino, you are addicted to using a card. These are 2 distinctly different things. Possessing and using a card doesn't make me go to a casino any more or less than what my gaming budget permits. Once I have made the decision to go (strictly based on my budget), using the card or not upon arrival is irrelevant. The decision already has been made, so it behooves me to use the card to garner whatever benefits are available. I contend the more serious addiction is going in the first place (and you have a longer history of entering casinos than I do).

If you are disciplined, you should use the player's card in most situations.

I will say this, however, in defense of Rob's attitude if not his instructions -- I have noticed more and more LV casinos, such as the Palms, are not only making point earnings tougher on the better payback machines, but they are actually excluding these machines entirely from all promos, even the small daily drawings. So folks who want to feel as if they have a shot at drawings and take-home minor trash have to make the decision to play inferior payback vp. Playing the better machines at the Palms is in essence the same as not using your card. You derive nothing from it other than providing the casino with your profile as someone who knows how to play.

My point is that this is the direction in which slot clubs are headed. If you play the positive machines, you may as well not use your card. There is no point to it, and you may actually be hurting your offers.

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Originally Posted by redietz

My point is that this is the direction in which slot clubs are headed. If you play the positive machines, you may as well not use your card. There is no point to it, and you may actually be hurting your offers.

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At Caesars Properties there are no penalties for playing the better machines, except that all video poker requires twice as much coin-in per point as regular slots... and it's a mystery what the point structure is for table games. But these are out of our control, as players. So the basic "rule" and strategy applies: always play with the card and get what you can along with your regular play.

I think Rob has lumped-in card play with his anti-AP rant for no good reason. Except perhaps he himself fell victim to the addiction of slot club points when he was an "AP" and he thinks others will also fall victim to it. I think Rob fails to realize that others might be wiser than he was when he fell into his hole way back before he "saw the light."

Look, Alan, Caesars' has no positive machines, so they don't really care if you're playing bad machines or badder machines, so to speak. But if you're playing at the Palms, or Station properties, the case can be made that the comp rate on 100%+ machines is so piddling that it actually is a negative to use your card when playing these machines. Why? Because it profiles you as a 100+% player and your offers get affected. You are probably better off not using your card and letting the marketing departments at Palms and Stations' guess as to whether you've quit playing altogether or you're sticking to table games or what.

If you have a history with these companies, they will keep coming after you with offers. Don't let them pinpoint you as a knowledgeable player. Let them guess.

Gee redietz, if you don't play with your card at the Palms and Stations then how do you get on the radar of marketing in the first place? Are you saying you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?

And if playing with a card is a disadvantage for the "advantage players" then so be it. For the rest of us -- recreational gamblers -- I think we'd prefer to be "on the radar screen."

But we've really gotten "off topic" here. We got onto the subject of players cards as a means to protect players credits and winning tickets that would be printed with a player's account number.

From what I'm seeing here, it seems most of us on this Forum can avoid falling victim to the casino by chasing comps, and therefore can safely use a player card. But we all probably suffer some degree of addiction as we are spending so much time either gambling or discussing gambling. I gave up many years ago trying to justify my "hobby" to others. Some people golf, some bowl, some have a boat, some (myself included) have many hobbies and interests, my favorite of which is gambling, and particularly horse racing. I know when to stop--loss limits and win goals--and am aware of the addiction but to some degree in control of it. The players card and whatever its benefits are is just a bonus.

On a side note: just a few moments ago my mail came and for the next month only 1 free buffett instead of the usual 2, where it used to be 4. Also, machine comps cut in half. I think it's great for me, cause now I'm more determined to play for the money and watch my play more carefully-maybe a blessing in disquise.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Well of course Im going to use my card at Caesars. This is the casino where I play, where I get my offers and my comps, and all of the fringe benefits of playing. When you have a casino you frequent of course you use their card.... except if you're Rob Singer.

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First Alan, stick with the facts. I've always used a slot card since retiring in 2009. I don't play that much enough for it to be generating any meaningful offers any longer and I use very little of what gets mailed. But I do get some benefits.

Now to you....and the TR card you so cherish. Admit you're addicted to that thing. Admit there's no way on earth you could possibly stand playing a CET vp machine for any amount of time without your card inserted. And finally, admit why....because you know Harrahs has you by the balls with the thing. How else would you EVER have been able to justify those years of losing had it not been for all those fabulous "freebies" & wonderful "goodies" you always get so excited about in thread after thread here?

Now please give it a try and report back!

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Gee redietz, if you don't play with your card at the Palms and Stations then how do you get on the radar of marketing in the first place? Are you saying you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?

And if playing with a card is a disadvantage for the "advantage players" then so be it. For the rest of us -- recreational gamblers -- I think we'd prefer to be "on the radar screen."

But we've really gotten "off topic" here. We got onto the subject of players cards as a means to protect players credits and winning tickets that would be printed with a player's account number.

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Wow, I see there's quite a bit of sensitivity once the slot cards started being discussed! It even brought arci out of his sanitation room :)

Alan, stop hiding. You know casinos rope players in based on slot card usage, and you're acting as if it costs them to do it. That's what's bugging you. You know how much all those "roping-ins" have cost you over the years, but it hurts to face it. And goodness sakes: you'd NEVER want to blame your sacred little 7-Stars card, now would you?

I wouldn't call it being addicted, but you are damn right that I am going to have my card inserted for every push of the button and every throw of the dice. If I didn't I would be giving away money whether it be in the form of cash back, free play, free meals, gifts, show tickets, free rooms for myself, free limo, free movies, free wi-fi, comped rooms that I can give to others (I have certificates that I can give to two couples entitling them to four nights each at Caesars), shopping sprees, trips, airfare, and more.

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Originally Posted by redietz

If you are disciplined, you should use the player's card in most situations.

I will say this, however, in defense of Rob's attitude if not his instructions -- I have noticed more and more LV casinos, such as the Palms, are not only making point earnings tougher on the better payback machines, but they are actually excluding these machines entirely from all promos, even the small daily drawings. So folks who want to feel as if they have a shot at drawings and take-home minor trash have to make the decision to play inferior payback vp. Playing the better machines at the Palms is in essence the same as not using your card. You derive nothing from it other than providing the casino with your profile as someone who knows how to play.

My point is that this is the direction in which slot clubs are headed. If you play the positive machines, you may as well not use your card. There is no point to it, and you may actually be hurting your offers.

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If you posted that on vpFree, you'd be sued for all the resulting heart attacks, and the thread would never end.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I've always used a slot card since retiring in 2009. I don't play that much enough for it to be generating any meaningful offers any longer and I use very little of what gets mailed. But I do get some benefits.

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Wow, Rob... you don't get any meaningful offers and you use "very little" of what gets mailed? So why bother using your cards? Are you addicted?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I wouldn't call it being addicted, but you are damn right that I am going to have my card inserted for every push of the button and every throw of the dice. If I didn't I would be giving away money whether it be in the form of cash back, free play, free meals, gifts, show tickets, free rooms for myself, free limo, free movies, free wi-fi, comped rooms that I can give to others (I have certificates that I can give to two couples entitling them to four nights each at Caesars), shopping sprees, trips, airfare, and more.

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Back full circle again. You can't stop yourself from craving the offers that are so highly anticipated, and that event has taken over much of your life. It's easy to say "I'm not stupid enough to leave money on the table", but that's exactly what's you're doing in the form of constantly being reeled in like a fish in order to lose. Unless, of course, you can explain how it's THE CASINOS who lose by getting you to keep coming back over and over again?

Rob, this thread was about a player who accidentally left behind $2,080 on a machine. And another forum member suggested a method that might prevent similar disasters. And in the course of that discussion you hijacked it and turned it into another defense and justification of the Rob Singer methodology and decided to launch more of your personal attacks on me and anyone else who might disagree with you.

I don't mind you discussing pros and cons of using a players card or belonging to a slot club or what psychological factors there are in casino gambling, but couldn't you start another thread?

And to tell you the truth Rob, I am more concerned about Canucknut's $2,080 loss and ways to prevent similar losses in the future than I am about your amateur diagnosis of the millions of casino-goers who always play with their cards every single time they step into a casino and also take advantage of offers that come in the mail.

You see Rob, I don't walk about in casinos with a $73,000 bankroll in cash in my pocket like you. I'm a small fish and getting a few hundred bucks of free play is a big deal to me. You on the other hand once posted here that you throw one-dollar bills on the ground.

I've gotta start following Rob around with one of those doggie scoopers.

I think it's pretty clear that if you have two virgin accounts, and Account A plays 18K through positive expectation vp and 2K through some garbage slots with a card inserted for both, and Account B plays just the 2K garbage slots with card inserted, Account B will get the better offers.

I don't think that statement is terribly speculative. Now if anyone wants to debate this, or bet on it, let's hear what you have to say.

The discussions of addiction are also dominated by Singer's projections. He is addicted and he knows it. He can't stand that other people are able to control their gambling and maximize their returns. So, he attacks them rather then admit it is his own problem.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I think it's pretty clear that if you have two virgin accounts, and Account A plays 18K through positive expectation vp and 2K through some garbage slots with a card inserted for both, and Account B plays just the 2K garbage slots with card inserted, Account B will get the better offers.

I don't think that statement is terribly speculative. Now if anyone wants to debate this, or bet on it, let's hear what you have to say.

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I think everyone will agree that players who play games with a higher house edge will, dollar for dollar, get better comps/offers than a player on a game with a lower house edge or no house edge. However, I can't say that I agree with your specific example using 18K and 2K of coin-in because I don't know what specific formula that casino or any casino uses. But your basic premise is what we have all come to believe is true.

All one has to do is read the non-stop whining on vpFree about the reduction and/or elimination of comps and freebies on the 100%+ machines at Palms & Stations. It's as if these idiots forgot why they gamble.The $18k vs. $2k is most probably on the underestimated side.

Hi vpguy,

Thanks. Ya, I don't mind telling you my strategy. It was, of course, born out of a lot of the stuff I garnered from Rob Singer's website--combined with a slot strategy I read from John Robison on the Casino City Times website. I'll try and post it for you sometime this weekend. It's worked well for me but naturally I can't guarantee that it will work well for you.

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Originally Posted by vpguy

Welcome to the board Canucknut. Sorry about what happened to you what a kick in the head that is! You are now due a huge Royal to get that money back.
Hey I have a question. Would you mind going over your strategy for me as it sounds interesting. I'm always looking for new approaches in my play and yours sounds like something I may want to try. Good luck in the future and again Welcome.

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Alan, if you do not believe mentioning that the slot club card is a very effective tool used by casinos to take more of your money than you'd like instead of it being in place for the purpose of just giving away the shop, you have more of a problem than previously thought. It's not about name-calling; It's about educating you about the truth and your subsequent denial. And forget about canuck's mistake. He knows what he did, he knows why, and your well-wishes and inability to get over it as he has is downright scary.

Rob: do you know what a yenta is?

Canucknut,
Thanks. I look forward to seeing it and trying it out. You can post it here or even send me an email at pickup.mark@yahoo.com if you wish. Like I said I always like trying out new strategies and testing them out. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by vpguy

Canucknut,
Thanks. I look forward to seeing it and trying it out. You can post it here

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Yes, please post it here and start a new thread. I too am interested.