Question for Rob Singer and redietz about "Total Rewards"

Would either of you still object to pursuing Total Rewards benefits including comps and free play if you happened to also have a profit while playing at TR casinos?

I am not sure about redietz, but Rob seems to be under the impression that if you are a TR member and have 7 Stars status that you must lose. But what if you win and have a profit and also take advantage of the comps and free play and other bonuses?

Is there a problem enjoying that icing on the cake?

(Hint: I had a session last night where I had $780 of free play and came home with $5,000 cash. That puts me way ahead for 2014 and with about 28,000 tier points which puts me more than 1/6 of the way towards 7 Stars again.)

No, I don't have a problem with the TR program as long as you win or are close to winning each year. My statements criticizing those who pursue top tier statuses in any slot club are focused on those who think accumulating points, offers, and freebies are the end all when playing. And it is true that the vast majority of these people do. Why do you think Jean Scott wrote that book about comps? She never could say she won UNLESS she was able to self-value all that junk (including the toiler seat cover) she got "for free". Then PRESTO--she's a winner every single year. But use your head: would CET be in business and send out many thousands in offers, flights, cruises, dinners, free play and free stuff to all of their 7-Stars and Diamond players if even 1% of them were winners?

Alan I am now a Diamond at CET even though I couldn't care less about that. I played once up here at Harvey's where I got the $20k royal, then I must have piled up the points down in Tunica when I ravaged them even more. The offers (which include startling amounts of free play outside Nevada, and free airfare for two to the casinos in the south) are starting to roll in from the 3 casinos around here and everywhere from Mississippi to New Orleans. I even got one from AC. So the notion that winners are blocked from getting or have their offers reduced, as you probably know for yourself by winning at CET in 2013 and now, is untrue.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

My statements criticizing those who pursue top tier statuses in any slot club are focused on those who think accumulating points, offers, and freebies are the end all when playing. And it is true that the vast majority of these people do.

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Is it possible Rob that you are reading too much in between the lines? I don't think rational people really value show tickets, gifts, trips more than the actual cash they win or lose. Perhaps people talk about the freebies they get but that's human nature. The reality is -- I am sure -- that no one considers a tee-shirt or a casino jacket more than money in the bank.

Regarding the offers from Caesars: I am pretty sure you are valued based on your "dollar volume" of play. If you are now seeing great offers then you are really pumping a lot of money through the machines. My offers were cut about a year ago because I don't pump big dollars through the casino. Perhaps you are playing more than you realized, and more than you tell us?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Perhaps you are playing more than you realized, and more than you tell us?

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Will this be the moment Rob breaks down in tears and confesses all? Let me go pick up a couple of Powerball tickets, be right back...

I played just as I said--at Harvey's once and very heavy in Tunica once. I guarantee if you go to Paris or the Rio or PH and run significant cash thru the $10 & $25 machines, your offers will soar, win or lose.

Those who create cash value out of gifts do so only so they can make themselves believe they had a winning year when they didn't. So tell me, do you believe CET loses money with their 7-Stars players, and if so, are they just giving it away out of the kindness of their heart?

There is no such thing as "creating value" out of gifts. You need to be honest with yourself. With each gift/freebie, you need to say to yourself what it's really worth TO YOU -- that is, how much you would pay for the same thing in real money (NOT how much it would have costed, as that's irrelevant).

For example, when I get Shell gas cards from CET (either Great Gift Wrap Up or other promos), they are worth close to face value to me, but not 100%. I always need to buy gas, so these honestly save me real $ I would have spent, but they are a bit inconvenient in that I have to use them at Shell, which either might be more expensive or farther away than I'd prefer to go. I'd say I would personally value Shell cards at 95% of the face value.

Freeplay I value at around 99% of the face value, since that's the average takeaway on an 8/5 bonus machine. Unlike Alan, I am not results-oriented per session of freeplay. It will roughly average out in the long run.

Other things are harder to value. Free hotel rooms are worth something, but sometimes I use them just because they're a benefit, but I otherwise wouldn't have traveled without them. So I don't know what they're worth. They are worth something to me during the World Series of Poker. I basically spent a month at the Rio for free during the 2013 WSOP.

Free food I value at the non-inflated prices, and only if I enjoy it. So if I eat a $70 steak at Old Homestead at Caesar's, I know that it's really worth more like $45.

In 2013 I combined my Seven Stars annual trip to New Orleans with a cruise out of the same location, and I did it during the Christmas/New Years high season. The "value" of the cruise was about $3000 and the flight was $1200, but I wouldn't have spent $3000 on a cruise at that time of year if I was spending my own money (prices were inflated due to the season). I also got $500 in RCs for taking the trip (you get that instead of that obnoxious food credit at Harrah's New Orleans, which is great).

Anyway, I do enjoy the Seven Stars perks and the offers, but I never put unrealistic values on them.

Also, I get 30% rakeback at WSOP.com because of being Seven Stars. This already earned me $400 in a relatively short time of play.

I don't know why the other thread was locked, but I just wanted to respond to Alan's question. Let me refer to CET as Harrah's, which is what it basically is, so as to avoid conflating my experiences with CP, which was a decent gambling locale for a long time, with other Harrah's properties.

The only problem I have with TR is that it's a component of the Harrah's formula, which in essence lowers the floor for gambling odds on a number of games -- video poker and blackjack included -- and Harrah's also instituted bizarre rules for betting limits on race and sports based on TR ranking. In other words, in Las Vegas, they want you to have established that you're a high-volume moron. People who bet more on lousy-odds casino games are often blessed with more liberal limits for sports betting, for example. Several years back, I went book to book to interview sports managers and workers. In essence, Harrah's wants you to display stupidity in other forms of gambling before upping your limits for sports. These kinds of tweaks are unique to Harrah's in the history of Las Vegas sports betting. I could go on -- but let's skip sports for a moment. Why would people bet lousier odds games? Well, the whole merit badge system provides a rationale. Are people really that dumb, you might ask? I don't know -- you tell me. Is 6/5 blackjack spreading? Are video poker percentages decreasing? Is it solely, or even primarily, the merit badges that draw people into playing lousy games? I don't know, but they serve as a component of the Harrah's system. The Harrah's system is bad for blackjack players, sports players, race players, and video poker players as compared to other companies. It doesn't really affect craps players. It hasn't been good for poker players. I suspect, although I do not know for a fact, that it's bad for slot players. Those are a lot of reasons to dislike a system.

In the locked thread, Dan talks about his method of valuing his stuff from Harrahs. That's fine, but it's ONLY fine if he wins directly from the machines. All that slot club fluff is just that--fluff. If they are truly rewards, then they should never cost anyone a penny.

I don't know how the thread got locked. I unlocked it and merged the new one into this.

Redietz I don't know about sports betting but I don't think the gaming at Caesars is much different from any other casinos. The Caesars properties have their good and bad games just like every other casino. But when it comes to comps do you know of a more generous outfit? I don't.

Harrahs can be more generous because they have the most addictive slot club program in the business. Hands down.

Rob is "better" automatically "addictive" in your mind?

Alan, you do need to be looking at it as "better" seeing that you are 110% locked in to whatever they're doing. I don't. My perspective is more from the outside looking in. From here I see a program that is in fact "better" overall simply because they have the largest network of properties in the US and Canada (sorry Deuce :)) and for people who actually take advantage of all the cruises and free flights to their many locations, it's a better program in that respect. But you don't, and for the life of me I can't understand why. Why not take your wife on a vacation somewhere else besides Rincon or Caesars? Why not go on a cruise together each year? Why not go somewhere and NOT GAMBLE for a few days? (I know why, but you get mad whenever I say it).

TR is unique in this way, but the way you use it it's really them using you. You think all that local stuff they bestow upon you and all that Caesar's "magic" that comes your way is the end-all. But it hardly is. Have you ever put the money that you put thru the machines at CET, thru the machines at MGM properties, the Venetian, Bellagio, the Hard Rock, Peppermill, Atlantis, Aquarius, etc. etc.? Each of those have a MUCH BETTER rewards program than CET, if you short-play the CET offers as you do. In order to truly get the value out of a club, you have to maximize use. You minimize use, and at the same time they're maximizing their use of you. You're what they call a weak player because of this. Therefore, you should not be playing at CET casinos.

I don't go on cruises because I get seasick. Some of the casinos you mentioned Rob I have had trouble at because of my "advantage craps play" while others I have done work for and it would be inappropriate for me to play there. Regarding my personal life WTF do you know? Sometimes you are a real piece of work sitting there in your RV park passing judgment on the rest of the world.

For race and sports, Harrah's comps are not good bordering on real bad and, frankly, depending on the property, I have run into real inconsistencies. LVH is much better. Palms, when it blended its sports book before the British takeover, was much better. Boyd and South Point are much better for race; I have not bet much in the sports clubs at these properties so I can't comment on sports. For race, almost anyplace is better.

Old stories:

1) Harrah's swears up and down, via the Caesars' sports book personnel, including the manager, on multiple occasions, that sports comps will be fine after the Harrah's takeover. I don't really trust them, so I use most of my already-banked comps. In fact, Harrah's line is that our comps will be worth more. Turns out -- liar, liar, pants on fire. Sports comps, already in the system, are docked 60% upon the takeover.

2) Quick story -- I walk into Harrah's sports book to make a couple of bets. I am the only person in there -- it's not lunch time yet. Literally the only person. I make a couple of bets -- one was for $4500; the other was some prop for a couple hundred. I request a comp for a hamburger -- at the time, they had waitresses walking around taking orders from a snack place. I am told I need to bet 5K for a hamburger. I look around, point out that I am the only customer and they are begrudging me a hamburger?!? They refuse my hamburger. I tell them I made an error on my ticket and, since I am still standing at the window, I want my money back. They have to comply -- I get my money and head to the Rio, which had the same lines, and get a comped buffet. The Rio had just been taken over by Harrah's, but their policies and personnel were not yet in place.

Anyway, the point is, this is how Harrah's treats sports bettors. CP became the flagship for Harrah's sports because they were a big-time, legitimate professional sports book before Harrah's. The culture clash has been interesting.

Also, I'm sure Dan can chime in, but I have to think comps for live poker players are better elsewhere. I haven't kept current on that, so please let me know.

When all is said and done, a casino is a business. They don't owe us anything and certainly not a way to make a living.

The offers and comps (offered by CET or any other casino) only exist because the casino feels and hopes to bring you in and lose more than they are offering...we all get that (or should get that).

Sure it sucks when casino offers are decreased, but I don't think that's any different than what credit card companies or other retailers do. The amount of points earned from credit card use to book flights always increases year to year. In Canada we have the Air Miles Program, and the amount of Air Miles needed to purchase gift items or flights has always trended upward. That's how all loyalty programs work.

Casinos are in a class by themselves when it comes to business. When you spend $4500 on an all inclusive vacation for 2 to Mexico, you are getting your flight, hotel, entertainment, food and alcohol included. Those things may be worth $4500 to you, but to the tour operator and resort, that trip is NOT worth $4500. Their profit margin is built into that retail price.

When you place a $4500 sports bet (or any kind of bet) at a casino, you are trying to walk out with $4500 of the casino's cash which is... you know...really worth $4500.

I used to place sports bets through a bookie. Never had a problem paying him or collecting from him. I received nothing in return for my "action". At least in a Las Vegas casino you can get free drinks and a nice environment to watch the games in the sports books.

Redietz, interesting story about the difference in what you got at the Rio and at Harrah's for your $4500 bet. But I need to ask you if the difference was because of policy or because comps are more liberal at Rio? Frankly, they are two different casinos though both owned by the same company, and it wouldn't surprise me that you would get more comps at Rio which is an off Strip property vs Harrah's which is center Strip.

Regarding poker comps: at Caesars it's $1 per hour played in live games, and I don't recall any comps for the daily tournaments. You'd have to play live poker for 8 hours to get a slice of pizza in the food court.

Since I am not familiar with sports betting, redietz, what does the casino make (its profit) on your $4500 bet? Is there a fee or commission, or how does the casino get paid? In the poker room the comps are so little because the casino gets paid by the rake (a couple of bucks each hand taken out of the blinds) which covers the overhead of the dealer, the room, cards and even free booze.

I think one of the most generous poker casinos for comps is The Bicycle in LA where players at $80 buy-in games and higher get unlimited free food and soft drinks. Alcohol you pay for. At the Bike I've had full breakfasts with omlettes made to order and at dinner shrimp cocktails and steak. The rake and blinds aren't any higher than any other casino in town, but the reality is that the casino still makes a lot of money. Oh, there is also cash back for players. Rincon also has a program where poker players get cash for something like 32 hours of play a month.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't go on cruises because I get seasick. Some of the casinos you mentioned Rob I have had trouble at because of my "advantage craps play" while others I have done work for and it would be inappropriate for me to play there. Regarding my personal life WTF do you know? Sometimes you are a real piece of work sitting there in your RV park passing judgment on the rest of the world.

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Excuse after excuse. That's what I know. I also know you're overly addicted to the TR program and there's nothing you can do about it. And it simply makes no sense that you hardly use the offers that might actually have a fun factor involved for you and your significant other. Do you get air sick too? I'd much rather read a trip report from you on a family visit to New Orleans or Ontario Canada, instead of the usual loner visits on the hook end of a CET extravaganza to play aces and faces. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'd much rather read a trip report from you on a family visit to New Orleans or Ontario Canada, instead of the usual loner visits on the hook end of a CET extravaganza to play aces and faces. Think about it.

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But then again, Bubba hangs out on gambling forums (until he gets thrown off) all the time. Even here he still is and will remain the number 2 poster. Who are you kidding Bubba? You've got addiction written all over you. You gamble the most, you talk about it the most, you have the most extreme claims, etc. Lalalalalalala

All the best,
Macau Lover
Hong Kong Lover
Seoul Lover
Okinawa Lover
Tokyo Lover

Rob you realize you have an answer for everything, don't you?

Too bad we don't know "the absolute truth" about how much you really play to hit all those big winners. I have a real problem believing that you hit them on just occasional half hour drop-in visits.

Oh Alan, maybe someday you'll come to the realization that there really is a method of play that doesn't mean you have to mostly lose if you win.I've been trying to teach you how for a long time, but all you've been doing is fighting it and now you want to believe it isn't what it is because however you play doesn't measure up. It just doesn't make any sense. Don't you know what the definition of insane is? No matter how often you reject the truth, it won't change anything. I post my wins only because you've shown an interest, and I incorporate the story behind each. This is no different than what I did for almost 8 years at the paper--with the same criticizms from people who never could win overall or on at least 80% of their casino visits. That's why it seems I do have answers for just about everything about playing vp for a profit: Because I do.

You're dodging the question Rob. You have posted what appears to be too many big winners for someone who claims to play only a limited amount. By the way, when are those articles coming out in Gaming Today?

At the time I made the wager at the Rio, the Rio had been bought, but sports book personnel and policies had not yet been brought into line with Harrah's. When a company runs sports books in multiple locations, as Harrah's does, the lines are identical in each location. The comps should be identical in each location, also, as they are all on the same system. Sometimes a "Dancer wink" does, I imagine, grease the wheels for comps, but I haven't experienced that.

Casinos are businesses. Some people seem to think we should therefore be supportive of them and friendly towards them. Why? Individuals can be their own businesses, and if the business of the individual is to extract as much value as possible from the equation, then the fact that casinos are profit-seeking entities doesn't really undercut any arguments. In fact, if you have more concern for yourself than for the casinos, then you should be trying to extract every bit of value from every transaction with them.


Basically, I'm a gambler. I don't "game." If the odds are against me, I don't play. Why would I? I think Rob may define himself the same way. I'm not sure how some of you define yourselves, but I think that is the crux of the difference.

Don't be complicating Alan's next visit to Rincon or Caesars redietz. He just wants to get there and PLAY! Even if he somehow gets ahead $3000 by playing his $750 free play once thru, he's the happiest gambler in the world coming home with two hundred bucks. And think about all those extra bonus points he gets for staying on afterwards. Plus the GGWU points! Plus the kind words from his host. Plus all the tips he was able to hand out from all those tax-return/AGI-messing W2G's! What a kick!!

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Originally Posted by redietz

Casinos are businesses. Some people seem to think we should therefore be supportive of them and friendly towards them. Why? Individuals can be their own businesses, and if the business of the individual is to extract as much value as possible from the equation, then the fact that casinos are profit-seeking entities doesn't really undercut any arguments. In fact, if you have more concern for yourself than for the casinos, then you should be trying to extract every bit of value from every transaction with them.

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I agree with this.

Casinos operate to separate their patrons from their money.

Once they are done squeezing out every penny from these people, they throw them away like they never existed. This is why your host will only keep comping you if you continue playing, not just because you played a ton in the past. Try playing really high limits for a few visits, then stay a few times and play nothing, and see how much your host will do for you after that.

They sell the promise and hope of "winning" and call it "entertainment", but in reality they are pulling every trick in the book to reach into your pocket and get as much as possible.

They don't tell you the odds of winning. They don't tell you that sustained play at any -EV game leaves you with just about zero chance of walking away ahead in the long run (or even the short-long-run), unless you win a fluke mega jackpot.

Now, I understand all of this. They are a business and want to make money, just as I am an individual and also want to make money.

While they try to extract everything from me, I am also aiming to extract everything from them, though I stay within the parameters of the law while doing so.

I really don't consider casino gambling as a constructive activity and only recreation. Isn't it a bit alarming how seriously some view it?

Rob will you respond to my questions?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

You're dodging the question Rob. You have posted what appears to be too many big winners for someone who claims to play only a limited amount. By the way, when are those articles coming out in Gaming Today?

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Listen to yourself, because I've obviously got you talking to yourself. I win often because of the way I play, and I win overall because I quit playing far sooner than others do. So many jackpots appear impossible to someone who plays lower overall limits than me and who can't stop playing. I do play a limited amount compared to you, but I play a much smarter game. In fact, I was planning on playing the last three days but I didn't. Why? Because my wife returned early, and where I'm from it's not all about me.There's your answer.

For the third time, I was told the articles would most likely appear sometime after football season.

You're twisting and turning and dodging, Rob: big jackpots do not necessarily come from denominations. You have reported some big "jackpots" regarding bonus hands such as your quads with kickers and royals which seem to appear during short, "drop in" visits. Yet, there are players who play hundreds of hours or a whole lifetime and never hit "big hands" such as those, including Royals.

Are you taking credit for making the RNGs give you such big hands with only a limited amount of play? Do you have some magical touch which triggers the RNG to give you so many big hands in such a short amount of time? Dollar amount is not the issue Rob -- but frequency of the "big hands" is the issue.

I am looking forward to your upcoming articles in Gaming Today plus your explanation for how you hit so many big jackpots with so little play.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

and where I'm from it's not all about me.There's your answer.

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Well that's new. Everything around here seems to be about you and as soon as it's not about you: you make it about you.

When you are winning big jackpots playing high denominations (according to your strategy) it means one thing: you're in a hole big time. But all of a sudden, in those situations you were (by coincidence) playing "sans strategie" and hit a big winner within a couple of hands. I think it's hilarious how you come up with this stuff. You should have become a stand up comedian. Let me make a prediction about your response:

A. no response
B. calling me, the Dutch or Europeans socialist/communists
C. I'm jealous of whatever you think
D. I'm a gambling addict because I don't play your strategy or I don't win like you
E. I love Asians but desperately need whatever the big old US of A has to offer us poor souls around the world
F. you come up with a new dumb comment

Waiting for your next "smart/snappy comeback"

Note to Alan: I presume most professional gamblers would take gambling seriously. I'm surprised you seem surprised by that.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Note to Alan: I presume most professional gamblers would take gambling seriously. I'm surprised you seem surprised by that.

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Note to Red: but Rob isn't a professional gambler. As you should well know by now his gambling is pure recreational :)

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

You're twisting and turning and dodging, Rob: big jackpots do not necessarily come from denominations. You have reported some big "jackpots" regarding bonus hands such as your quads with kickers and royals which seem to appear during short, "drop in" visits. Yet, there are players who play hundreds of hours or a whole lifetime and never hit "big hands" such as those, including Royals.

Are you taking credit for making the RNGs give you such big hands with only a limited amount of play? Do you have some magical touch which triggers the RNG to give you so many big hands in such a short amount of time? Dollar amount is not the issue Rob -- but frequency of the "big hands" is the issue.

I am looking forward to your upcoming articles in Gaming Today plus your explanation for how you hit so many big jackpots with so little play.

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Poor attention span again Alan. Four Aces on $1 DDBP is not really a jackpot unless that's the top denomination being played. Four Aces on $10 DDBP, which I've posted a pic of, IS a jackpot. And how about this: Four 3's on $5 BP is hardly a jackpot. But four 3's on $25 TDBP IS a jackpot, as you've seen right here @ $50,000.

The rest of your whine is entitled to some cheese. Isn't is abhorrent that I've been consistently able to play mostly short sessions and continue to hit big winners. Tough love. That's what comes with a strong player playing smart and being able to just up and quit when people like you cannot. If you want to feel better and not so jealous like your kooky friend from where they idolize Obama much like you do, then disbelieve me and tell yourself I hang around hi limit rooms waiting with camera in hand just to slip in and take pictures that I can say are all my own. If that's what it takes to ease your pain over this, then do it. It won't change the amount of cash in my wallet, and it won't make my wife file for divorce just to "be like Mike" from California. As your hero Hillary says, "What Difference DOES it make!?" There....that outta make you smile, just as you did when you found out Bill had Monica under the White house desk in a prime display of Democratic morals.

Lessons are free and always available whenever you want them. And I still owe you dinner.

Rob, we seem to be missing each other. And that's a problem, because it makes me doubt you and many of your claims and reports. In the past I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but now I have to question my own judgment for giving you a "pass" in the past.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Four Aces on $1 DDBP is not really a jackpot unless that's the top denomination being played. Four Aces on $10 DDBP, which I've posted a pic of, IS a jackpot. And how about this: Four 3's on $5 BP is hardly a jackpot. But four 3's on $25 TDBP IS a jackpot, as you've seen right here @ $50,000.

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These are all jackpot hands -- and rare hands -- regardless of the denomination. And again, you seem to be getting these rare hands in abnormal amounts based on your claims of limited play in short spurts at a casino. Of course, if you misstated the amount you played then hitting so many of these rare hands would not be of consequence. It's just that your claim about playing little and hitting these big winners is suspicious.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

The rest of your whine is entitled to some cheese. Isn't is abhorrent that I've been consistently able to play mostly short sessions and continue to hit big winners.

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It's not "abhorrent" Rob... it's not believable. And what adds to the disbelief is that instead of trying to explain it rationally you launch a salvo of insults such as this:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Tough love. That's what comes with a strong player playing smart and being able to just up and quit when people like you cannot. If you want to feel better and not so jealous like your kooky friend from where they idolize Obama much like you do, then disbelieve me and tell yourself I hang around hi limit rooms waiting with camera in hand just to slip in and take pictures that I can say are all my own. If that's what it takes to ease your pain over this, then do it. It won't change the amount of cash in my wallet, and it won't make my wife file for divorce just to "be like Mike" from California. As your hero Hillary says, "What Difference DOES it make!?" There....that outta make you smile, just as you did when you found out Bill had Monica under the White house desk in a prime display of Democratic morals.

Lessons are free and always available whenever you want them. And I still owe you dinner.

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Congratulations Rob, you have lost me as a fan and as a believer.

So basically if I have shorter trips spaced out farther apart in time along with some tough love thrown in I will be able to press the DEAL/DRAW button at the right millisecond more often (big quads, small quads, royals & SF's all being desirable button presses)? This might be within the realm of possibility and maybe there's something special about Rob's personal biology (hence, my old thread on "Human Biology and RNGs").

Rob, I am not a Democrat, and I don't like Obama.

With that said, I don't believe any of your claims about winning at video poker, especially if you're playing 9-5 DDB machines.

I'm either the last sucker in the room or the second-wisest person in the room, for I am still uncertain about Rob's record.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Rob, I am not a Democrat, and I don't like Obama.

With that said, I don't believe any of your claims about winning at video poker, especially if you're playing 9-5 DDB machines.

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Yeah that makes a lot of sense: flushes control outcomes. And I just kept sitting at the $25 machines until I lost $50,000, then $100,000--and more, if that makes you feel better.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

For the third time, I was told the articles would most likely appear sometime after football season.

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I contacted GT to see if I could get a more definitive answer on when your articles would appear. The reply I received from the publisher was that there were no upcoming columns from Rob Singer that she was aware of.

Are these some kind of sooper sekrit column that not even the publisher knows about?

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Yeah that makes a lot of sense: flushes control outcomes. And I just kept sitting at the $25 machines until I lost $50,000, then $100,000--and more, if that makes you feel better.

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Rob, with your logic, a video poker machine only paying the largest hands and paying zero for everything else would be fine, because you're just going for the big hits, right?

Video poker pay tables have become so important because reduced "medium pays" slowly eat away at the player, as they play a lot of hands. Losing 1 credit on a flush or full house doesn't sound like a big deal, until you multiply it by numerous flushes and full houses over a long session. And multiply that by many sessions, and it's a huge additional piece of profit in the casino's pocket.

You keep talking about people "playing right into CET's hands" with their Total Rewards program, yet you also play right into the casinos' hands by playing games with inferior pay tables and convincing yourself that you're doing the right thing.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Rob, with your logic, a video poker machine only paying the largest hands and paying zero for everything else would be fine, because you're just going for the big hits, right?

Video poker pay tables have become so important because reduced "medium pays" slowly eat away at the player, as they play a lot of hands. Losing 1 credit on a flush or full house doesn't sound like a big deal, until you multiply it by numerous flushes and full houses over a long session. And multiply that by many sessions, and it's a huge additional piece of profit in the casino's pocket.

You keep talking about people "playing right into CET's hands" with their Total Rewards program, yet you also play right into the casinos' hands by playing games with inferior pay tables and convincing yourself that you're doing the right thing.

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How confused you are....

You saw the pay table of the machine I hit the $100k on, right? 9/7 TDBP and full-pay, right? You also saw the table on the $50k winner I hit earlier. 9/6 TDBP. And who would play games with no smaller winners?

What I teach is to play the best pay table available in the casino you choose to play in for the game you choose to play. And again, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THAT PAY TABLE IS when you play a smart strategy. This crazy notion that one MUST play in +EV situations only in order to win over any amount of time, is just that--pure inexperience talking. Do you think I cared what the pay table was when I started each session, during each session, or after each session? Do you think I was thinking about that type of nonsense when I went to the banks? What you're saying is the machine must know who you are, if you've been winning or losing over your lifetime and day, and where you need to be in the overall mathematical scheme of things in order to be close to EV. How about trying to stay FAR ahead of the curve--did that ever enter your mind? It does mine every time. That's why I win so consistently, so often, and why it bothers others who are not able to play a stronger game.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

And again, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THAT PAY TABLE IS when you play a smart strategy. This crazy notion that one MUST play in +EV situations only in order to win over any amount of time, is just that--pure inexperience talking.

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http://www.mandelblog.com/wp-content...f-Garlin-2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Spock

I contacted GT to see if I could get a more definitive answer on when your articles would appear. The reply I received from the publisher was that there were no upcoming columns from Rob Singer that she was aware of.

Are these some kind of sooper sekrit column that not even the publisher knows about?

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Copied and noted.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THAT PAY TABLE IS when you play a smart strategy.

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Wouldn't the "smart strategy" include playing the best paytable?

I do not play 7/5 Bonus. In fact, given a choice between 8/5 Aces and Faces and 8/5 Bonus I will play the Aces and Faces game because it has a slightly better expected return than Bonus.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Wouldn't the "smart strategy" include playing the best paytable?

I do not play 7/5 Bonus. In fact, given a choice between 8/5 Aces and Faces and 8/5 Bonus I will play the Aces and Faces game because it has a slightly better expected return than Bonus.

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And there's a good example. Every visit/session is different, and you have to look at more than one aspect in order to be playing "smart". For instance, what's your bankroll for today's play? That would determine if it makes more or less sense to play 7/5 BP or A&F TODAY. Also, when playing goal-oriented strategies, depending on how hi or low you set it, which game is more or less likely to hit that win goal TODAY?

This is where players fall "prey" to casinos. All they want and expect you to do is sit at a machine or two and pound away as fast as you can, because they know they will make money off of almost EVERY machine, positive or negative, over the long haul. That's also why so many casinos have EV-adding promos, tournaments, give-always etc. almost non-stop that consistently push games into theoretically positive territory--and most times lucratively so. They WANT and NEED AP's to keep coming in, keep playing, and in people like Bob Dancer's case, to keep WRITING about them. Why do you think guys like him constantly play at the same promotions and casinos? Why do you think he's put most of his play into Dottys over the past two years? Then think about why I don't chase such things, and how I've been constantly able to do so well. It's not the pay table that's most important Alan & Dan. It's the overall approach.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Copied and noted.

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I just saw this. You should know better.

I'll call tomorrow myself. I just deal w/ the editor and managing editor. Publishers hire and review, I've never required pay, and I'm known. Could be the article(s) already ran, or they may not be running them. It might light a fire under their butts if I send them pics &"proof" of my two recent wins.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I'll call tomorrow myself. I just deal w/ the editor and managing editor.

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Copied and noted.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

It might light a fire under their butts if I send them pics &"proof" of my two recent wins.

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I'm curious. What do the pictures and the recent wins "prove"?

Does the photo of my dealt straight flush prove anything except that I was dealt a straight flush?

Do the photos of your big wins prove anything about the Singer methodology? If so, what exactly do they prove?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'm curious. What do the pictures and the recent wins "prove"?

Does the photo of my dealt straight flush prove anything except that I was dealt a straight flush?

Do the photos of your big wins prove anything about the Singer methodology? If so, what exactly do they prove?

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OK. THIS is what I keep talking about. Why does EVERYONE want pictures and strategies, etc. if it's not gonna mean anything?You've been given, say, an artt strategy, clues on how to identify a possible cold or hot cycle, win goals and correlating plays at advantageous points in the strategy, etc. So NOONE is gonna prove ANYTHING without getting your feet wet. Almost forgot-and you don't have to play at levels higher than you can afford.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'm curious. What do the pictures and the recent wins "prove"?

Does the photo of my dealt straight flush prove anything except that I was dealt a straight flush?

Do the photos of your big wins prove anything about the Singer methodology? If so, what exactly do they prove?

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Nothing really. I guess just that these hands are actually hit at any denomination. More appropriate is what slingshot wrote. You see what I hit, you've been told how I hit them with my method of play (ARTT strategy in the most recent cases) but it won't do anything for anyone else unless they choose to learn how to do it properly. You can only lead the Camels to the water.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

clues on how to identify a possible cold or hot cycle,

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Funny you mentioned this today, because last night I could have sworn I was in a hot cycle at that $2 machine because I was hitting lots of small winners before the dealt straight flush and then within a few more hands got quads twice. And as I was getting those small winners one after another I said to myself "is this a Rob Singer hot cycle and too bad $2 is the top denomination on this machine." No kidding. I really thought it.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

You see what I hit, you've been told how I hit them with my method of play (ARTT strategy in the most recent cases)

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But the point is, Rob, your strategy didn't make the RNG give you those cards. Your strategy cannot control the RNG. That is the "luck" part of the game.

To say that you got these big hands because of your strategies is a bogus claim.

The only time you could claim that your strategy was involved was if there was a "special play" and there was no special play in these big wins.

Congratulations on the big wins. You had big wins, yes. You can't say the Rob Singer system deserves credit for them.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

But the point is, Rob, your strategy didn't make the RNG give you those cards. Your strategy cannot control the RNG. That is the "luck" part of the game.

To say that you got these big hands because of your strategies is a bogus claim.

The only time you could claim that your strategy was involved was if there was a "special play" and there was no special play in these big wins.

Congratulations on the big wins. You had big wins, yes. You can't say the Rob Singer system deserves credit for them.

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That'r right, you're starting to get it! If I do not play one of my strategies, almost EVERY time I play I would play a single denomination, and that RNG would be hitting--and losing--at that single denom. I would NEVER sit at a $25 machine and start playing without working up to it. Working up to a top denom. is how I get the majority of my wins.

In my e-mail I explained ARTT in detail. I also told you that the majority of the wins in that strategy come via an accumulation of soft profits, and sometimes (as in the $50k hit) the final "soft profit" is a huge hit. Very few win as this one did-- w/o ANY soft profits.

As for the special plays, there were not any successes in this session, but as I told you before, when I played those three sessions when the $50k was hit, one of the winning sessions ended with a big winner due to a special play.

Rob once again it appears that the facts are arranged to fit the claim. Sorry I just can't buy it. Your whole system is a video poker Rube Goldberg concoction.

Alan, you're either not making sense or you aren't reading with the required comprehension again. What facts are you talking about, and what part of exactly how the strategy is played don't you get?

I do get that everyone here is jealous as hell over my big wins and how often I win--including you obviously--which is the cause of all the stupid remarks along with trying to find other ways to combat everyone's utter frustrations with how I'm able to do what they can't--and I have no problem with that. In fact, I find myself overjoyed by it as you know. Even redietz finds himself beside himself, as he & and that other idiot are resorting to calling GT purportedly because they "can't wait" for my articles. But I don't care about that either (and I did just call and my articles have not run yet). I'm mildly surprised one of your moron posters hasn't come on as someone else claiming to be the REAL jackpot winner. Just the relief everyone needs. So I'll let you and your group continue on with the disbelief and envy, and the only time I post will be when I hit jackpots....and just to irritate the haters which as you can plainly see, has become my specialty. But because I rarely play, that won't be often. Just keep your chin up. You can always hope I lose like your posters here do :)

For the record, I did not "call" GT. We idiots try to get responses on record when possible.

'Nuff Said.

And to all a good night.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

(and I did just call and my articles have not run yet). I'm mildly surprised one of your moron posters hasn't come on as someone else claiming to be the REAL jackpot winner. Just the relief everyone needs. So I'll let you and your group continue on with the disbelief and envy, and the only time I post will be when I hit jackpots....and just to irritate the haters which as you can plainly see, has become my specialty. But because I rarely play, that won't be often. Just keep your chin up. You can always hope I lose like your posters here do :)

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Getting too hot for ya Bubba? Run with that tail between your legs? Your latest jackpot story is falling apart fast. Your GT-article story is falling apart fast, guess you don't want to wait for strike 3 huh? But since you're starting to run, please keep running in the exact opposite direction of the rest of us. Don't bother to post jackpot pictures, nobody's buying it anyway.

I have to say this semi in Rob's favor. I have to think, with him firing a 100K jackpot photo at us, that he was just having a good belly laugh while seeing how much malarkey we would swallow. I mean, he could have strung us along with a bunch of 4K jackpots, but no -- he decided to push the envelope and go for the 100K "let's see if they buy this" stuff. It's pretty funny, really. I mean, c'mon, we have the storage locker and RV stories and a mix-up in identities a little while back and now jackpots from all over the place in a short time, and it's on a site hosted by a journalist! It's probably some inside joke and we'll all wind up on reality TV some day. Next Rob will say he's an alien from Area 51, and we'll be asking for proof. Rob will explain that the USA is directly descended from his alien race and Europe is genetically inferior and that the evidence is in a locker, but his ship is banned from Nevada due to his ancestors being shot down, and we'll politely ask him to get us some evidence when he sneaks back into Nevada.

Rob's not the goofball. We are.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Next Rob will say he's an alien from Area 51, and we'll be asking for proof. Rob will explain that the USA is directly descended from his alien race and Europe is genetically inferior and that the evidence is in a locker, but his ship is banned from Nevada due to his ancestors being shot down, and we'll politely ask him to get us some evidence when he sneaks back into Nevada.

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Are you suggesting Rob is into Scientology?