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I'm not talking about the upcoming Signature Event cruises. I'm talking about the standard one you get every year.
I have learned a lot about this and have figured out the best way to get value out of it. You do need to be willing to spend money, as it's not free by any means, but you will save a ton and get a great deal if you enjoy cruising.
If anyone cares, I'll post my tips.
I know Alan doesn't take these cruises because he gets seasick on those large ships.
I'm not into cruising at all, but I would appreciate the tips and info and I am sure it will help others. So spill the beans, Dan!!
Why bother? Cruises are nothing but glorified night's out so unsuccessful people can make believe they're "world travelers" on germ-laden ships almost completely serviced by horrific collections of third world slugs. Ever go down below and see where & how these creeps live....and what they're given to eat? If the ship bacteria doesn't do it, this alone is enuf to make your stomach turn. But you'll never see anything about it in the brochures! That's why Harrahs utilizes "fabulous cruises" as hooks for 7-Stars aspirationists.
I thought you were giving Alan a hard time a few months ago for not taking the cruise benefit. Now you're giving me a hard time for taking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Which one is it?
Poor Rob. He can't decide who or what to attack -- he only knows he has to attack.
After Alan said he gets seasick, the only thing I could criticize him for this cruise nonsense was for being a total slave to his sacred TR program. Which, BTW, is just too ridiculous a topic, as most here have a love-hate relationship with the place that none of you know how to end (which coincidentally is the same as your relationship with RS--you love to see my big winners, but you hate me for it and for having won so much, so this small crew of gambling losers tries sooo hard to pretend they're just wet dreams). Where would you all be without your fabulous "$100 dining certificates", the "annual this or that's" or the "rope 'em in blind" GGWU that only serves to get you all back to LV for more gambling.
Here's a concept: stay home, stop losing money every year because no one wants to learn the proper way to play vp or handle casino traps, and you will all be happier campers who suddenly discover that there is more to life than gambling and gambling issues. And just imagine all the moaning, groaning & griping that will instantly disappear. And maybe I will too!
I'm going to ignore Rob in this thread, because I want this to be about Seven Stars cruise tips, not more of his trolling BS that he uses to ruin every thread here.
So here are my tips regarding the Seven Stars Annual Criuse.
First off, understand that it is not FREE. There is no way that you will escape without paying at least $500, and realistically you will end up spending MUCH more than that. If you do not enjoy cruising, then this isn't a good benefit for you, as it will still cost you substantial money and you won't enjoy it.
So why bother?
Because if done right, you will get an incredible deal on a cruise that you would never be able to duplicate elsewhere.
What is the Seven Stars Annual Cruise benefit?
Caesar's Seven Stars members are entitled to take one "free" (actually heavily discounted) cruise on certain Norwegian itineraries each year. Keep in mind that the "year" is not a calendar year, but actually runs from April 1 to March 31.
You are only entitled to take cruises which have an onboard casino. This means you CANNOT take the "Pride of America" Hawaii itinerary, as that one never leaves Hawaii and has no casino onboard.
Why does there have to be a casino? It is important to understand that this is a marketing partnership between Norwegian Cruise Lines (NCL) and Caesar's. Caesar's is NOT paying for your cruise. In fact, neither your host nor Total Rewards nor anyone else at Caesar's will get involved in booking this cruise. It is completely independent of Caesar's, aside from your Seven Stars status giving you the ability to take this heavily discounted cruise.
What Do You Get?
You are entitled to a "balcony stateroom" (usually category BB) on all itineraries EXCEPT the Alaskan ones, where you only get an "ocean view" stateroom. This cruise is for 2 people, though you can go by yourself if you want.
Your cruise has to be 5-8 days long.
To understand where these lie in the hierarchy of rooms on cruise ships, here is a general ranking of staterooms on NCL, from best to worst:
1) Suite. These are the best staterooms on the ship, and come with their own butler and concierge services. These tend to run around $2000-$3000 per person after taxes, though there are also some super-expensive ones that are much more than that.
2) Mini-Suite. These are MUCH inferior to regular suites, and don't come with the butler/concierge or private areas. They are basically just bigger balcony rooms, but are still on the small side compared to a regular hotel room. Still, they usually run about $1400-$2500 per person after taxes.
3) Balcony. This is what you usually get as part of your Seven Stars benefit. It's very similar to the inside/oceanview rooms (i.e. very small), but is a little bit bigger, and more importantly, has a balcony. The price widely varies on these, from $800-$1800 per person after taxes, depending upon itinerary and date. They are most expensive on Alaska cruises, which is why you don't get them as a Seven Stars benefit on those itineraries.
4) Oceanview. These are identical to inside cabins (the lowest category) with one major difference. You have a window to see out the ship, and let in natural light. The size and obstruction of these windows varies. These rooms run you about $500-$1100 per person after taxes.
5) Inside. This is the cheapest category. The rooms have no windows and in fact are on the "inside" of the ship. They will run you about $350-$950 per person after taxes.
These cruises are promoted as "free", but they are anything but that. In reality, you are just getting heavily discounted fares. Here is what you can expect to pay:
- Port charges, fees, and taxes: $175 to $445 per person. There is no way out of these. They vary by itinerary. The most expensive ones ($445 per person) are the Alaskan cruises. The obnoxious thing is that the "fees" portion are actually part of the normal fare -- known as "non-commissioned fees". This was originally invented by the cruise industry in order to screw travel agents out of commission, but now is also used to make people legally pay something for "free" cruises. It is important to understand the difference between the "taxes" and "fees" part, so you can figure what kind of discount you're really getting. More on that later.
- Airfare. Perhaps you're fortunate enough to be cruising from near where you live, and flights aren't necessary. There are NCL ports in many places, including Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, New Orleans, Houston, and Miami. But if you need to fly (which you probably will), it will cost you airfare for two, and this is not covered at all by Caesar's. However, there is one way around this -- by combining other Caesar's promotions which include airfare. More on that later, too.
- Tips. $12 per day, per person. They automatically put this on your bill, meaning 7-day cruises will run you $168 in tips for two people. These are general tips for the entire staff, but you are not expected to tip further (though it's allowed). You can remove these tips, but then you will be screwing the already low-paid staff, so I wouldn't suggest that unless the service you received was awful as a whole. Sadly, you cannot "itemize" who gets what part of your $12, meaning you can't penalize a specific department (like your room steward) without penalizing everyone else if you remove tips.
- Specialty restaurants. Most food on board is free, but the main dining room restaurants simply aren't very good. If you want better food, you need to pay a "cover charge" to various specialty restaurants (french, steakhouse, Italian, sushi, etc), which will run you from $15-$30 per person per meal. You can order specialty restaurant packages in advance, making it a bit cheaper.
- Shore excursions. The boat will stop at various ports. You don't have to get off, but I think it's pointless to cruise without the shore excursions. You will end up spending money for tours of these places, taxis, or whatever. I would suggest trying to arrange your own excursions instead of booking with the ship, as you will both save money and get a more private/better experience.
- Drinks. Most drinks cost money on the ship. Basics like water, milk, and juice are free, but everything else (including soft drinks) cost money. As a Seven Stars member, you do get a card allowing you free well/blended drinks at the casino bar only. You are allowed to bring your own drinks on board, though it's a bit of a pain in the ass.
So as you can see, you will be spending money.
In the next post, I will give you various money-saving tips for the cruise, including how you can get that coveted balcony room on the Alaska itineraries.
Question: is Caesars involved with the onboard casino?
Tips to Save Money & Get Free Upgrades
The fine print says that you can only get a balcony room, and in the case of Alaska, just an oceanview room.
What if you want better? You have to pay to upgrade, and it will usually be very steep and almost completely negate your Seven Stars discount.
There's a way to get upgrades and/or free onboard credit, but it requires some advance planning and some diligence on your part.
First, you need to become acquainted with the NCL website: http://www.ncl.com
Explore it, and find the itinerary you want. Again, make sure the itinerary is one offered by your Seven Stars benefit.
What are you looking for? You will see on the list of prices, there are little colored bars indicating various promotions. You are looking for ones indicating "Free Upgrade" (usually yellow), "On Board Credit" (usually green), or other bars indicating something that sounds good to you. These can also include "Kids Sail Free", "Free Specialty Meals", or others.
Here is a sample screen:
Notice in the above, two of the three bars ("Hot Deals" and "Latitudes Rewards Offers") are actually fairly useless. You are really looking for concrete things like onboard credit (which is also there), which give you something tangible.
You qualify for any promotion they have running at the time!
This means, in the above case, you will get the onboard credit, even booking your Seven Stars trip.
Same goes for other promotions, so in the case of the Alaska cruise (or others where you want an upgrade), you should look really hard for the "Free Upgrades" promotion. Norwegian often runs these during the early parts of the year, but it can be any time.
If they are offering free upgrades, you can upgrade your lousy Alaskan cruise Oceanview room to Balcony for free. That's a big upgrade. In my opinion, balcony to mini suite isn't anything that great, but you might as well take it if you can get it.
But what if you don't see anything that looks good? Should you wait? No, you should not. This is because Norwegian allows you to cancel and immediately rebook with no penalty, provided you are more than 75 days away from the cruise date!
You are also entitled to a full and complete refund if you cancel more than 75 days out. So there's really no penalty you'll suffer from booking now (to make sure the cruise doesn't fill up) and then cancel/rebook if you see a better promo.
It is also important to understand that Norwegian will black out certain dates from the Seven Stars cruise if the ship starts getting full. Basically, they only want you onboard at this discounted rate if they aren't going to be able to sell the room to someone else at full price. So make sure you get it locked in as early as possible, and then do the cancel/rebook thing if you see better promos come up. This is especially true if you are sailing during high-demand weeks (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years) or popular itineraries (Alaska).
Here are a few other general money-saving tips:
1) Avoid booking shore excursions with Norwegian. These will always be heavily marked up, and you will typically be in large, slow groups. These tours are usually very impersonal, you see very little (because the size of the group slows things down), and are very inflexible. Do a little research beforehand and hire your own private tours. These tours are often CHEAPER than the group tours offered by the ship, and yet you will get a private experience and see so much more, plus have a lot more flexibility in what you do. Don't be intimidated by dealing with locals in other areas/countries. Most won't even require you pay up front, and you can pay when you arrive and actually see what you're getting. You can find out more about specific ports by going to the Cruise Critic forums at http://www.cruisecritic.com
2) Avoid buying drinks. If you like soft drinks, bring your own aboard. That's allowed. If you don't want to, consider their "soft drink package", though it's fairly expensive and probably not worth it. If you want to drink alcohol, you get free well drinks and blended drinks at the casino bar. They will give you a card when you board that entitles you to this. You do NOT have to play at the casino at all to be entitled to these free drinks.
3) Do not play in the casino, no matter how tempting. The rules and paytables are horrendous. Even Rob Singer would avoid these games. Also, your host at Caesar's will never hear about how much you do or don't play, nor will they care. NCL is completely independent from Caesar's. You are not expected to "earn" this cruise through play. You are not expected to play in order to be able to come back next year. You can play NOTHING and repeatedly take these cruises, year after year. You will not earn tier credits or RCs for Caesar's in the NCL Casino! It is a completely separate system, operated by NCL, and the perks are lousy. You will not be bothered by any hosts onboard unless you actually start playing. Also avoid the poker/blackjack/slot tournaments, as the house takes a staggering 50% or more rake from them!
4) Do not shop onboard, unless necessary. Everything is heavily marked up.
5) Do not use the spa, unless you really want to. Everything is heavily marked up.
6) Do not play in any contests on-board that cost money. Some of these can appear to be fun/tempting, but they are bordering on a scam and barely anyone wins.
7) Wait until they run a laundry promotion, or just bring enough clothes to where you don't need to do laundry. They charge per item, and it's expensive. Usually twice during the cruise, they will run a promotion to where they will do all the laundry you can stuff into a bag for $25.
8) If you eat in the specialty restaurants, buy a package beforehand. It will cut down your costs. I like the specialty restaurants, and eat in one every night. I suggest you do the same, unless food quality isn't important to you. They aren't that expensive, and they are WAY better than the main dining room, in both food and service.
But what if you want to bring more than 2 people on this cruise? What if you have a family and want the kids to come along? What if you want to bring your parents? Will it cost you a fortune in extra fares?
It won't be cheap, but there are plenty of ways to get the best value out of this. I will describe it in the next post...
No. I think my post right after yours will answer that question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Ignore this post if you are not cruising with more than two people.
Cruising With More than Two People
Your Seven Stars benefit is for one or two people.
But that's not practical for everyone. Perhaps you want to go on this cruise with other family members or friends, and will have more than two in your party. How does NCL handle that?
Can you combine other NCL free cruise certificates you received throughout the year to bring additional people? No, you can't, and they will NEVER make an exception to this policy. This will only work if the certificates are in the name of others you want to bring aboard. Basically, the person holding the certificate can only be booked once on the ship, so if you're already booked under your Seven Stars benefit, you can't occupy a second room simultaneously. It's not a like a hotel where you can book an unlimited number of rooms in your name.
So what do you do?
Well, first off, do NOT simply add additional people to your room! This is a big mistake most people make, and they are literally flushing money down the toilet by doing so.
Why?
It is almost always cheaper to get a second room for these additional people than to add them to your own room.
You read that right. Buying a second room will cost you LESS money than cramming additional people in your own room. Nobody ever thinks that would be the case, because it is completely opposite from the way hotel rooms work.
First off, you will get a 10% discount on whatever additional rooms you buy. This is the standard way they handle second rooms purchased through their Casinos At Sea group, which will be handling your Seven Stars reservation. It's not actually a full 10%, because they don't discount the "non-commissioned fees" or "taxes" part of the fare, but it will still typically give you something like a 7% discount when it's all said and done.
If you have an odd number of people in your party, such as 3, there is a huge benefit you can use that is barely known by anyone. What is that benefit? The odd-numbered person can get their own room without paying any surcharge for having a private room! On cruises, they typically DOUBLE the fare (or something very close to it) for people staying in their own room without a second person. This is because space is at a premium on these ships, so you're really paying primarily for the room, and not everything else. When two people are in a room, if the cost per person is $600, you should really think of it as a $1200 room. Again, this differs from a hotel, where they don't care if there's one or two people in the room. On a cruise, it's a huge difference, and they will charge you very close to the 2-person rate if you're just one person. This is not the case with "casino" bookings. You can buy an additional room for the "odd" person, pay only the normal "per person" rate, though you will NOT get the 10% discount discussed above!
Keep in mind that you CANNOT do the above more than once per cruise. That is, if you have 4 people, you are not allowed to book two additional rooms and give the 3rd and 4th person their own rooms. This will only work with odd-numbered parties, and only one person can stay by themselves at this discount.
But what fare will you be paying for these additional rooms?
Well, aside from the 10% discount and the odd-numbered trick describe above, you will be paying what everyone else pays. However, there is a lot you can do to bring your fare down for the additional passengers.
Finding the Cheapest Fares for Your Extra Rooms
Cruises fares vary wildly, even for the exact same ship on the exact same sail date. Like airline tickets, the big difference is when you book. However, unlike airline tickets, the cheapest fares tend to be closest to sail date, and there is a long window when you can cancel and rebook with no penalty!
First, unless it's less than 75 days to the cruise date, just book the second room. You can get a full refund if you decide you don't want it, or if the price changes (prior to 75 days out) and you want the better deal. You also won't be required to pay in full when you book. You will have to give a deposit of like $125, which again is fully refundable before 75 days out.
Next, take a look at how much you were charged for "fees and taxes" for your first (Seven Stars benefit) room. You will want to break that down into what is actually the fees, and what is actually the taxes. I'll explain shortly why this is necessary.
Consult the PDF file they sent you for that first reservation. Find the portion where it shows the Guest Fare, which is near the top:
Notice that the above is for 2 guests on a Seven Stars cruise.
Let's break it down per person, as seen in the second column.
"Guest Fare" is listed as $175. These are the "fees" (actually the non-commissioned portion of the cruise fare, which you don't get covered.)
"Government Taxes/Fees" are listed as $99.38. These are the actual taxes and port charges.
Each person paid a total of $274.38.
This is important to understand because the fees portion is included in the regular fares on ncl.com, while the taxes are not.
You will need to use this information when examining NCL.com for better prices after you booked your second room.
So let's say, in the above case, you booked and were quoted a total of $800 per person (including taxes) for your second room.
You need to figure out the actual fare at the time of your booking. To do this, do the following:
1) Take the full amount, and subtract the TOTAL of fees and taxes from your own reservation. In this case, it would be $274.38, so subtracting that from $800 would make $525.62.
2) That's the portion where you got the discount, so un-discount it by multiplying that amount ($525.62) by 1.1, giving you $578.18.
3) Now add the "fees" portion (NOT the taxes) back on. It was $175 in this example, so $578.18 + $175 = $753.18.
So when you booked the second room, the standard going rate was $753.18 per person. This is important to know.
Now, repeatedly visit the NCL website (I'd say once per week), look up your cruise date, and see if the fare they're currently offering is less than when you booked -- $753.18 in this case. If it is, call back, cancel, and rebook immediately. They will adjust your fare lower.
If somehow the fare went up (or stayed the same), do nothing. You are locked in at the rate you were quoted until you take action to change it.
Confused by this? Bad at math? No problem. Just call back every so often and ask if the fare has changed, and they will adjust it for you if it has gone down. But it's always better to know exactly what you have seen and what you're entitled to.
You can REPEATEDLY do this with no penalty up until 75 days before the cruise.
Also, as stated in the other post, you will qualify for any promotion that is currently running. The one exception is the odd-numbered room (the one with one person occupying it), as they don't give you additional promotions since you are already getting such big savings. However, the room price can still be adjusted in the same way as described above.
If it is closer than 75 days, you can still call up and try to ask for a free upgrade or on board credit, if the price has dropped. They may or may not do this for you. It's sometimes better to try this a few times, as each representative varies in what they will do for you. Some will deny they have the power to do that, but it's BS.
If you really want to gamble, you can simply wait until VERY close to the sail date (1-2 weeks out) and buy a second room then. You will usually get the best rate at this point, but you are also risking the ship selling out, so closely monitor the situation on the website, and even call up and ask how many rooms are still available. You will usually have very little selection as to where the room is located, though. One trick is to add the people to your room, and then remove them when you find a 2nd room price you like. You can get a full refund for people added to your room up until 14 days before the sail date, which differs from the refund policy of the 1st and 2nd people in the room, which is 75 days.
How do I handle it if I'm cruising with two adults and two minors?
Cruise ship policies state that one adult (over 18) must be registered in each room. So if you are a family of two adults and two kids, don't panic. Book your Seven Stars room for you and one of the kids. Then book the other room for the other adult and the other kid. You can put the two kids together in the second room, and no one will care. It's a policy they never enforce beyond booking.
What if you are totally okay with other people in your room and don't want a second room?
Get the second room anyway.
First off, as I already stated, it is likely to be cheaper.
Second, the "additional person" rates don't tend to go down much as it gets closer to cruise time, while the second room rates do. So you'll have a better shot at the price going down and being able to rebook.
Third, and most importantly, nobody is forcing you to actually use the extra room. Let it sit empty. No one will care. Or use it for additional storage (trust me, you'll need space for storage, as cruise rooms are quite small.) Or use it as a quiet place to nap when everyone else is awake during the day. Even if you absolutely never set foot in that other room, it's worth getting for an equal or lesser price than adding people to your room. It's not like the cruise staff will prevent anyone from spending time in your first room.
I will post the rest of my tips a little bit later, including how to actually book everything. (Do NOT use the website!)
Still to come:
- Combining the cruise with other Caesar's trips/promos/benefits
- How to actually book the cruise
- How to get a little bit of freeplay on board
- Evaluating what you're really saving: Is it worth doing?
Hi Dan:
I took 2 cruises through NCL/Ceasars both on the Adriatic for seven days. Once just with my wife, the second time with the wife and our two teenaged kids. The kids had their own interior room. We had a great time. Although I thought I knews the tricks, I am learning so much from your thread. Thanks.
Combining the Cruise With Other Caesar's Trips and Promos
Caesar's is pretty strict when it comes to combining offers and promotions. If you try, they will usually refuse, unless you're a high roller and they make an exception for you.
So does that mean you can't combine your Seven Stars cruise with other Caesar's promos? No.
Since this benefit is being provided by NCL, and not by Caesar's, it does NOT count as you redeeming any Caesar's offer or promotion! This means it is fully combinable!
So how can you use this to your advantage?
There are several ways, but the most obvious one is to use your Seven Stars Annual Trip (or, alternately, your Diamond Aspirations II $750 air credit) to cover the airfare.
Of course, this does require that you are leaving from a port somewhere in the vicinity of a Caesar's property.
The best choice for this is New Orleans. Harrah's New Orleans is less than a mile away from the NCL port!
If you are cruising from New Orleans, there is a very easy way to get your airfare covered, take the cruise, and earn 50,000 RCs in the process!
First, choose New Orleans as your Seven Stars trip. Have the trip start the night before the cruise and tell them you will be there for three days (you really won't).
Next, have Caesar's Passport Travel book your roundtrip flight to New Orleans. You will have $1200 to spend on the airfare, which should be enough for 2 people. Make sure the return flight is booked for the day the cruise returns, unless you want to stay in New Orleans longer. This will be fine by Passport, by the way.
Fly in the day before the cruise. They will pick you up in a limo from the airport and drive you to Harrah's New Orleans. As soon as you check in, they will deposit 50,000 RCs in your account! You are NOT required to spend any of the RCs on this trip. These are being given in lieu of a folio credit.
The next morning, simply check out early, take a taxi to the cruise port, and take your cruise!
Alternately, you can fly into New Orleans a few days early if you want to spend a few days there. Or you can do what I did last year, and use your Seven Stars comp benefit for a night before the cruise, and book the annual trip part for a few days after. They're fine with that, too, and will still give you both the airfare and the comp limo to and from the airport.
But what if you're cruising out of a different port?
Well, it depends how close a CET property is.
If you're going out of Los Angeles, you can use Harrah's Rincon, though it will be a good 100 mile drive to get to the port (and you'll have to hassle with a one-way car rental).
If you're going out of New York, you can use Caesar's Atlantic City, but again it will require a good drive to NYC, and again a one-way car rental.
If you're going out of Miami, you can stay in Biloxi, but it's a few hundred miles to get to Miami (and again, the one-way car rental).
Also, none of those properties will give you the 50,000 RCs, so you will waste most of the $500 folio credit, unless you stay awhile before the cruise.
You are NOT required to fly round trip from the same airport. They are 100% fine with you taking your annual trip to Biloxi, and taking the return flight from Miami, for example.
In general, I wouldn't suggest combining it with the annual trip unless:
1) You are cruising from New Orleans (in which case it's perfect)
-or-
2) You make a little side trip out of it, where you start out at the Caesar's property, take a mini-road-trip, and end up where you start the cruise.
Also keep in mind that one-way car rentals are usually expensive.
If you've already used your annual trip, you can still use your $750 Diamond Aspirations II air credit, or you can use any applicable airfare promotion in your Total Rewards account. For example, if you have an offer for a free roundtrip flight to New Orleans, you might want to just use that, especially if it comes with some sort of freeplay.
Furthermore, if you want to stay in New Orleans BOTH before and after the cruise, you can use two separate offers when doing so, as a full week will pass between them.
Using Two Cruise Certificates
As I said earlier, you CANNOT use a free NCL cruise certificate at the same time as your Seven Stars cruise.
However, there is an exception to this.
If your traveling companion has a certificate in their name, then you CAN use this certificate at the same time as your Seven Stars cruise, to get a second room.
Example: You are a Seven Stars member, and your wife is Platinum. Your wife has a NCL free cruise certificate from a Caesar's promotion she attended. You book your Seven Stars cruise normally, and list your second passenger as someone else (NOT your wife). Your wife then books separately with her certificate, and she is also entitled to take a second person. Then, once you get aboard, configure who stays in each room to your own desire (i.e. you still get to sleep in the same bed as your wife).
There are some restrictions to being able to do this, though.
The free cruise certificates tend to be very restrictive, and you may not be able to use it for the itinerary that you want.
Your wife may not get a free cruise offer if she is associated with your TR account in any way. This is why I suggest your wife never linking her account to yours in any way, and in fact receiving her Total Rewards mail at a different address, if possible.
Finally, I am not sure about this, but NCL may balk about a husband and wife using two offers at once. They will probably have no idea unless you both use the same address when you book on NCL. I would suggest if you do the above, your wife give her work address or mother's address, or something like that, when booking with NCL. Again, nobody will care once you're on board, and this is NOT illegal. They may not even have a policy against it, but you're better off appearing to be two completely separate bookings. I cannot find anything in the fine print against allowing a husband and wife with separate certificates booking together, but again you're better off avoiding the question coming up in the first place.
How To Book the Cruise
If you're used to your host holding your hand and booking everything for you, I have some bad news for you.
Unless you're a mega-whale, your host will NOT get involved in the booking process for your cruise. This is because there is no Caesar's play involved with these cruises.
So how do you book?
First, you need to wait until April 1st. You cannot book before that, because NCL will not have the information that you qualify for the cruise. The only exception to this is if you're booking a cruise to take place before March 31, and you did not use your Seven Stars cruise for the previous year. Basically, you have from April 1 to March 31 to use this Seven Stars cruise benefit for each year you qualify for Seven Stars. If March 31 passes and you didn't cruise in the past year, you literally missed the boat, but can book one for the current year if you're still a Seven Stars member.
Before you call NCL, you need to figure out what cruise you're taking. Go to the NCL website http://www.ncl.com and find a cruise you want to take. Remember, it has to be 5-8 days and there has to be an active casino on board. This means no Hawaii cruise. However, you can take cruises to many other locations, including California-Vancouver, Caribbean, Alaska, NYC-Bermuda, NYC-Canada, Europe, and many others.
Do not worry about the quoted fare on the website, unless you are buying a second room. In fact, it's actually better if the quoted fare is higher, because that means you're saving more money!
You'll want to select a room before you call. To do this:
1) Go to the NCL website, and select your itinerary.
2) Act as if you're going to book. Go through the motions. Don't worry, you will be stopping before any credit card or personal information needs to be entered.
3) Select Balcony staterooms (except on Alaska cruises), and you will see various types of Balcony rooms offered. Pick the one labeled "Balcony" -- NOT "Family Balcony" or "Mid-Ship Balcony", as you won't qualify for those.
4) You will have a few other choices in that sub-category. Select the best of those sub-categories -- usually either listed as BB or BC. It will be the most expensive of the balconies offered on the Balcony subcategory.
5) It may offer you some upgrade. Decline it.
6) It will show you a list of staterooms and a small map of that floor on the ship. On the left side, you will see a list of available staterooms.
7) STOP HERE once you select a stateroom. In general, it's best to pick one closer to the middle of the ship.
If you are on an Alaska cruise, do the same, except select the Oceanview category instead of Balcony. Then pick the Oceanview Picture Window subcategory, and pick the best (OA) of those categories.
If you have found a "free upgrade" promotion, don't bother selecting a room, as you are not allowed to do so. You will instead skip the above and just call the phone number I will give below, and they will assign you a room when it gets close to cruise time.
Once you have selected your stateroom, it's time to call and book. You will be calling the Casinos At Sea (CAS) department at Norwegian. They have two offices -- one in Miami, one in Arizona.
Will Smith once sang the praises of Miami in a hit song about 15 years ago. He must have been onto something, because just like in his song, Miami is the superior office to deal with.
This is because the Miami office is the home office for NCL, while Arizona is just a satellite office. Miami has all the power. In fact, the Miami CAS office is empowered to do a lot of things and make a lot of exceptions. They are also a lot more knowledgeable about the various idiosyncrasies of the booking process (such as you being able to qualify for all running promotions), while the Arizona office will often deny things like this.
The Miami office's phone number is (877) 752-9625. They are open from 6:00am-2:30pm Pacific time, Monday through Friday. Not exactly ideal hours if you're on the west coast, but this is definitely the office you want to deal with. Always select option "1" to book a new reservation, even if you already have a reservation, as it will get them to answer the phone faster. I have found the other options sometimes can't get through to anyone.
The Arizona office is open until 5pm or 6pm Pacific, which makes them easier to reach. However, I would suggest avoiding this office, as they tend to be incompetent and powerless. Only call them if you have general questions or need to verify something on your existing reservation. Their number is (877) 742-9521.
Once you get through to the Miami office, tell them the exact room you want, and you will probably get it. Again, the only exception is if you're getting a free upgrade to a higher category.
When you book your Seven Stars cruise, you will be required to pay in full when you book. However, as I already said, you can cancel and get a full refund provided it's 75 or more days away from the cruise date. Closer than that, you will get 75%, then 50%, then 25%, then 0%, depending upon how many days are left when you cancel.
There is a wide variance among reps in Miami. Some are extremely nice, knowledgeable, and helpful. Others are nasty, arrogant, clueless, and awful. If you get a crappy one, ask for a supervisor, or just hang up and call back. Do not let any of them talk you out of the things I mentioned here, as some are still confused about policies.
Make sure they send you an e-mail PDF with all the details of your booking, and double-check everything!
Finally, don't take "no" for an answer -- at least not at first. Do they claim you're booking during a blackout date? Ask for a supervisor and try to give a sob story as to why you really need to travel on that date. Did the price for your second stateroom go down after the 75 day deadline? If they won't give you a free upgrade or some on board credit as compensation, ask for a supervisor and, again, give a sob story about how you could have waited until later to book that 2nd room, but didn't realize the price would have changed so much.
The Miami office is empowered to do a whole lot, while the Arizona office has to follow regulations to the letter.
I took my last cruise during the Christmas week, which was blacked out already, but I talked them into letting me still book that date, even though balcony rooms were running $1500/each and still selling like hotcakes.
Do NOT bother trying to pay to upgrade. It will be a HUGE surcharge, and you will end up paying almost the equivalent of retail price, thus negating your Seven Stars discount. If a balcony room isn't good enough for you, then don't use the Seven Stars cruise benefit.
A Little Freeplay
The casino has terrible odds and should be avoided.
However, who can turn down a little freeplay? Not me!
It's actually not freeplay, but it's heavily discounted play, and it's definitely +EV to do this.
First, go here: http://slotplaycoupons.com/destinati...n+Cruise+Line/
This is a third-party company offering $50 of slot play for $25. Make sure to pick the right ship (only buy this after you're sure of your reservation).
It looks a bit shady, but I did this myself in December, and it worked 100% as advertised.
Basically, you buy this coupon for $25, print out the coupon you get in the e-mail, and bring it on board.
Once on board, sign up for Norwegian Players Club. You should actually be signed up already without having to do anything, and the cards should be in your stateroom when you check in. If you're not, just go into the casino and sign up. (You'll need to be signed up to get your free drink card, too. But, again, this should be in your stateroom already.)
Then bring the coupon to the cashier, along with your stateroom key and your ID. They will verify everything, and then put $50 of slot play on your card!
You can do this for any adult in your party, as well! Since the play is put on the player's club card, they don't care who actually runs the freeplay with the card, though each person signed up will need to go to the cage once to get the freeplay put on.
Furthermore, you can also buy $20 in slot play for $10. This one is offered directly by Norwegian, and again can be purchased for each adult on the cruise. It has to be bought before the cruise.
To do so, go to the NCL website, and go to the My NCL seciton. Register to sign in to your cruise info, if you haven't already. Go into Explore and Plan where you can click on All Amenities. There you will find the casino promotion listed under Bon Voyage Gifts. Make sure you buy only the one where you get $20 in slot play for $10 (or something similar where you get more than you pay). You can only buy one of these per adult.
Using both of these offers, you will get $70 in play for $35. It only needs to be cycled through once to cash out. If you do this for both adults in your party, you will get $140 in play for $70.
You might want to google "slotplaypromotions.com promotion code", as they occasionally have specials to buy those coupons for an additional 5-10% off.
Saving on Specialty Dining
Once booked, you might want to buy specialty restaurant packages to lower the price for those. At the moment, the current special is "Ultimate Dining", where you get all 7 nights at a specialty restaurant of your choice (you go wherever you feel like) for $119 per person. This is a fairly good deal, as most of the specialties charge $20 or $30 per night. You will be committing to go to a specialty every night (or at least paying to do so), so don't pick this if you're not sure you want to do it.
Do NOT select this for children, as they eat at half price at specialty restaurants anyway if they're 4-12 years old, and get in free if they are under 4.
To book this, sign into My NCL after you're booked, then click on Explore & Plan, and then click on "1 Dining" on the left side. You can also call (either Miami or Arizona is fine) and ask about it, and have them book it for you. You will have to pay in advance.
I cannot stress enough how much better the specialty restaurants are than the main dining room. Some are better than others, but you should really do all specialty dining, as it's definitely worth it.
Figuring Out What You're Saving -- And If This is Worth Doing
First off, if you don't like cruising, don't do this. You will be unhappy and end up spending a lot of money.
This is only for people who like cruising and want to do so at a heavy discount.
But even if you love cruising, is this really worth it?
It all depends how much you're saving versus how much you're spending.
Remember, there are a lot of costs here -- the fees/taxes, the airfare, the tips, the specialty restaurants, the shore excursions, and any miscellaneous charges, such as taxi fare and car rentals.
If you're only saving a few hundred dollars on the whole thing, is it really worth it? After all, you're being forced to take Norwegian, are restricted to certain itineraries, and forced to a certain room type. If you're spending $3000 and only saving $600, it's probably not worth it.
So how much are you really saving? It depends on a lot of factors:
1) How expensive is this itinerary for this room type?
2) Is it a popular cruise date?
3) Are you getting an upgrade, such as an oceanview to a balcony on an Alaskan cruise?
4) Are you saving money in any other way, such as combining this cruise with your annual trip to New Orleans, thereby earning 50,000 RCs and getting your airfare paid?
You need to add these things up, determine your actual savings, and then compare it to what you are actually expected to spend.
EXAMPLE OF BIG SAVINGS:
I took the Christmas cruise from New Orleans to the Caribbean. Balcony staterooms were going for $1600 per person after tax. Flights to New Orleans were about $600 per person. I paid about $275 per person, and got the flight for free. I also got 50,000 RCs, worth $500. This means I saved about $2500 on the cruise, plus $1200 on the flight and earned $500 RCs. That's a staggering $4200 savings. Even with the tips, specialty restaurant costs, and shore excursion costs, this was well worth it! In fact, I took an additional two people (and paid their airfare), and it was still worth it.
EXAMPLE OF SMALL SAVINGS:
You take a cruise from Miami to the Caribbean. You pay for airfare. You pay for a hotel the night before the cruise (since there's really no time to fly in the same day.) You pay about $275 per person, but notice that balcony rooms were going for about $700 per person after tax, right before the cruise. You also buy a second room for two others in your family, and spend about $1300 total on that. You ended up only saving about $850 total, yet you spent your own money on airfare for 4, tips for 4, specialty restaurants and excursions for 4, and a hotel room. When you add it all up, you find that you spent about $4000 of your own money, just to save $850. Not worth it!
This is where the European cruises start to become questionable. If you can get a cheap flight to Europe, great! But don't end up spending so much on airfare that the few hundred you save per person on the cruise becomes mostly inconsequential.
Unless you are saving at least 33% on your total trip expense, you probably don't want to bother in a case like the above, unless you REALLY like the itinerary you picked.
This why it is imperative to find those free upgrades or other promotions that will make your cruise for valuable.
For example, scroll up and look at that screen shot I posted of the Norwegian site. That was for an Alaska itinerary. Look how much more expensive the balcony is than the oceanview! If you get that free balcony upgrade, you will be saving A LOT of money. If you don't, you won't be saving that much.
If you're cruising during high season, you are also probably going to be saving a lot of money. However, I wouldn't suggest high season because the ports tend to be more crowded and it's harder to find space on private excursions. High season (such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc) tends to only be valuable if it's convenient for your work/school vacation schedules (which is why they cost so much). But if you have a fairly open schedule, don't cruise during high season just so you can feel like you're saving money!
Regarding bringing additional people, again that cuts into your overall savings. The one exception is if you have an odd number of people, for reasons already stated.
So how do you figure out what you're saving?
Simply go to the NCL site at any time, and pretend like you're about to book a new balcony stateroom. On the right side of the screen, the total price will appear (before you have to enter your info or credit card). Subtract what you're actually paying from that price, and that's your savings.
If you are bringing an odd-numbered person, then you can also add whatever you paid for their fare as additional savings, as usually they would have to pay double for being alone.
Furthermore, you can also count about 7% savings for the additional room, due to the "10%" discount.
Finally, you can give yourself credit for a little bit of savings on drinks, provided you plan to use the casino bar to get free drinks.
But be honest with yourself. If you really aren't saving that much, this probably isn't worth doing, unless you would have booked a similar cruise vacation anyway, even without this Seven Stars benefit.
What cruises would I suggest if you want the best value?
I would suggest the Mexico/Belize/Honduras one out of New Orleans (and combining it with the Seven Stars Annual Trip), and I would suggest the Alaska one only if you can get a balcony upgrade (look around February-April for this, but also throughout the year). In each of these cases, you will save over $2500, and sometimes as much as $4200.
Keep in mind that Caribbean itineraries only take place during the winter/late fall/early spring months, while the Alaska itineraries are only in the late spring/summer.
If you have any questions about any of this, please post them here or PM me.
Thanks for all the good work Dan.
Thanks Dan. This is really interesting and valuable information. I have taken the Norwegian cruise a couple of times (last New Year's Eve) and will probably take another one this year. We happen to like Norwegian. I will definitely work in some of your suggestions, even if we end up taking the December Seven Star cruise out of New Orleans. My main problem with cruises is that I have some rather serious health problems which make boarding and disembarking rather difficult. Any suggestions here? Oh yes, every chance I get I plead for them to combine the Norwegian and Harrah's points systems. That only makes sense to me, but thus far it has fallen on deaf ears.
Ah yes, I forgot to mention the 2014 Signature Event cruises, which are a bit of a different story. I'll get to that shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajacket
Regarding your health issues, I'm pretty sure if you approached the NCL staff about your disabilities, they would be happy to help. There are actually a number of disabled passengers on cruises, as well as extremely old people who can barely walk. If you have medical documentation of your disability (I'm not sure if it's obvious from seeing you), then you should bring that along in case they give you static.
To NCL's credit, I found the staff to be nice and helpful during embarkation and disembarkation, although the embarkation process was a bit long and confusing for my taste.
Signature Events Cruises (2014)
If you live on the east coast, or if you can easily get there without a lot of expense, you might want to consider the "other" Seven Stars cruise option, new for 2014.
These are the "Signature Events" cruises.
These cover a lot more expenses, but are restricted to very specific itineraries and dates. You can pick one:
NYC/Bahamas/Florida June 7-14
NYC/Canada/New England Sept 27-Oct 4
New Orleans/Carribean Nov 23-30 OR Dec 7-14
These cruises are a lot more "free" than the standard Seven Stars cruises.
You DO NOT have to pay the so-called fees and taxes.
You DO NOT have to pay tips (Caesar's covers them).
You get 3 signature meals for free.
They also give you transportation to and from either Harrah's New Orleans (for the New Orleans cruise) or Caesar's Atlantic City (for the NYC cruises).
If you are local to either of these two areas, you truly can cruise for free.
But what kind of stateroom do you get? Nobody knows. This was never made clear.
How do you book it? Again, nobody knows. In true Caesar's fashion, this was also never made clear.
Can you combine it with your Annual Trip to New Orleans or AC? Perhaps, but again, this is not clear.
Contact your host to find out.
Ideally, you could combine your Annual Trip with this, and make a completely free trip out of it, even if you're out of the area.
Of course, you will have to want these specific itineraries, and need to be able to make these specific dates.
I would avoid the NYC/Bermuda/Florida one, as those dates are lousy. It will be hot and humid in all three places (especially Bermuda/Florida). The other two are good dates weather-wise.
I didn't see the cruise to Italy in there that Dancer's talking up on vpFree and that he and that old lady he dumped his sick wife for are going on June 15th. Seven Stars must have been meant good gambling for him also--he's begging others to help him find a cheaper way to see Rome, Milan & another city by sharing the limo costs.
I would think someone so advanced in ripping entities off would be able to figure this type of problem out on his own. Or maybe Shirley was the brains of the operation. It's obvious she ended up with most of the money....
Hi Dan:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Sorry to tell you this, but NCL has changed its policy on odd numbered people. Starting last week there is no longer any additional staterooms which can be booked through "casino" bookings. Yesterday the NCL representative read me out the email. If I want a second room for my daughter, I now need to pay the price of a double occupancy room. (NO THANKS) In fact the NCL casino line operator could not even entertain or quote me a second room. I needed to be transferred to a separate operator who did not have any access to the casino line information on my voucher.
I could, however, use the NCL casino line operator to book another person in my stateroom and I wound up booking (for now) a mini-suite pending the 75 day deadline for the cruise since I wanted enough room to breath as the standard balcony my wife and I are entitled would be pretty crowded.
Regards, FAB
This is terrrrrrrrrrrrrrible news. But thanks for alerting me to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
To be honest, I've never understood why NCL's Casinos at Sea department gave those perks for the 2nd room. Obviously they were getting very little out of it, because the second room is likely to be inhabited by a non-gambler (or a light gambler). Amazingly, this "third person by themselves" perk was available to any CAS booking, including those cheapo inside cabin vouchers that Caesars and other casinos hand out like candy.
I had a feeling this might be coming, as they had already taken away another 2nd room perk (10% discount) earlier this year.
Have you ever been in a mini suite on an NCL cruise?
I ask this because I think the mini suite is the worst value type of room on the ship. It's basically a balcony room with a little more room, but much more expensive, and without the usual suite perks.
How much are they charging you to upgrade? I imagine it's a lot.
When are you taking your cruise?
You might want to look for "free upgrade" promotions, as you can cancel and rebook your balcony room and get the upgrade for free. That's how I got my upgrade from Oceanview to Balcony on the Alaska cruise I just took.
In general, upgrading these "free" cruises is a bad idea, as you usually end up paying a lot of money and wipe out most of your 7 Stars discount. In fact, you should see if buying the minisuite outright for 35% off (Seven Stars discount) will work out better than upgrading!
Is your daughter still going on the cruise? You might want to wait until fairly close to the cruise (14-50 days out) and look if they are "dumping" inside cabins for very cheap. It may end up cheaper to put her in a 2nd room (and pay the single supplement charge) than adding her to your minisuite! Even if she's under 18, you can put your wife in that 2nd room and put your daughter in yours, and then just sleep with your wife, with your daughter in the other room. You can cancel out a third person up to 14 days from sailing at NO CHARGE, so this is always a trick you might want to consider.
I am pretty much an expert at gaming the NCL system at this point, so tell me your situation and I'll try to give you the best advice.
Hi Dan:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I have taken two NCL cruises before, both in the Eastern Mediterranean. Both on CET issued vouchers on balcony rooms. The second cruise was with our two kids, a year and a half ago when my son was 17 and my daughter 14. For that second cruise I bought an inner room across the hall from my balcony room under my wife's name and then had the kids stay in that inside room while the wife and I slept in the balcony room.
Now my son is at college (and not going on the cruise) and my daughter is 16. We are planning on taking the Western Caribbean cruise out of New Orleans on February 15th (NCL Dawn) coming back Feb 22. So it is something like 154 days out. I am told that the 75 day (prior to departure) deadline to cancel is December 2.
I am ambivalent as to whether I want my daughter to have her own cabin but explored it anyway with NCL.
I have never stayed in a mini-suite before and while I understand it lacks the amenities of a true suite, it is supposedly 284 sq. feet compared to a balcony suite of 204 sq feet. I think I may be a bit cramp in a regular balcony. But the upgrade from a balcony to a mini-suite is a total of $400. My daughter will cost an additional $430 whether it is a balcony or a mini-suite room. I booked a mini-suite knowing I can cancel without penalty up to December 2 but am willing to reconsider.
I did not spot any upgrade or discounts on the NCL website. If you have any a suggestions, I will appreciate hearing them.
Regards, FAB
Wow, I had a long post typed back out analyzing this, and it got lost because the system logged me out for taking too long.
My fault. I'm the admin here and should have set that timer to be longer.
Really frustrating, but I'll try to type it again from memory (I'm not going to recalculate everything again).
I am assuming that your daughter is $430 AFTER tax, which I found to be $108 per person for your sailing. The taxes are the same for each person, no matter where they stay on the ship, so we will ignore tax for everyone for this discussion.
That makes your daughter $312 to add before tax. Her own room would be $1018 -- a difference of $706. Ouch. But keep in mind you are paying another $400 to get the minisuite, so the difference isn't as great as it appears. What you need is to wait for a drop in prices.
Your minisuite upgrade is not a very good deal. Your balcony room would be category BB, which is $859 right now per person. Minisuite category MX is $969, and MS is $1029. So depending upon which minisuite you upgraded to, you should be paying either $220 or $340, not $400. But that's what happens when you upgrade these "free" certificates.
I would suggest the following:
1) Downgrade back to a category BB balcony
2) Wait until late December, and then start looking at the price of inside cabins. Keep looking until February 1.
3a) If you see a huge price drop (currently listed as $529 per person -- you're looking for something $300 or less), drop your wife off your room (it's free to do this) and buy an inside cabin for her.
3b) If you reach Feb 1 and you DON'T see a price drop like that, call and upgrade back to a minisuite.
You are gambling a bit that the minisuites could sell out, but I wouldn't worry too much. The price for the insides will drop far below where they are now (your sailing date is not popular), so if the minisuites are gone, you can still just buy your wife the inside cabin for whatever price is there, and still likely have a better situation and comparable overall price.
Look at it this way: To add your daughter to the room AND upgrade to the minisuite, it will be $712 before tax.
To get your daughter her OWN room and stay with a balcony, it will be LESS than $712 before tax, provided the "per person" fare is like $370 or less, which I think it will be at some point.
It is pretty awful to cruise with 3 people staying in one room, even in a minisuite.
Benefits to a second room:
1) Extra bathroom
2) Extra place to nap during sea days
3) Lots more storage space
4) Private time with your wife
Oh, and you're right, there are no specials right now. But one may appear soon. You definitely should keep checking for these (especially ones called "Free Upgrade"), as this might allow you to upgrade to a mini suite for free.
At the very least, look for at least an on board credit special and rebook then, because you'll at least get that (though it will be something like $50 or less).
To show you how well my tactics worked on my Alaska cruise (albeit with the "old rules", not the ones you're subject to now)....
I was entitled to one oceanview room for two people.
To add another person to the room, it would be $599 plus tax (which is $199 in Alaska!)
Instead, I paid $349 plus tax extra, and I got:
- A third person on board
- A balcony stateroom
- An inside cabin two doors down from our balcony room
- $40 on board credit
And to show you how great that $349 price was, the non-commisioned fare on those Alaska cruises is $240, so even if my wife had her own "free" certificate, she still would have paid $240. Here I didn't have a certificate and just paid $109 above that to get a second room for one person, $40 on board credit, and also got a huge cabin upgrade.
Took a lot of work with the price watching, though.
Anyone else doing a 7 star cruise this year? We had such a great time doing a 7 star event cruise last year on the NCL Dawn from NOLA we are going to do our first ever 7 star regular cruise this year. We are going to Alaska on the NCL Jewel in September. Unlike the event cruise we will have to pay the taxes and fees and gratuities that add up to about $900 for two people. But we have been wanting to go back to Alaska. And thanks to CET we saved around $2000.
How much have you lost to save $2k? Or are you a winner like everyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
Keeping it real we usually lose money every year. Between the two of us it is in the neighborhood of $15,000 to $20,000 per year. This is he 5th year for us to reach 7 star card level. We can afford to lose the money. It's cheaper than a country club membership or owning a second home. If you add up the entertainment value of gambling, the 60 plus nights of free rooms per year, the free meals, free concerts, free airfare and other forms of free transportation, and all of the other perks such as diamond lounges and 7 star lounges, etc., etc., etc., the benefits we receive year in and year out far exceed the money we lose gambling.
It's nice that you can self-value all of that "free" stuff in order to justify losing. By the way, owning a 2nd home would've meant $75k to $100k in money not sent south on the quickest train to nowhere. And playing for slot club status is hardly anything to be proud of. I could also afford to lose $20k a year but I learned how to win instead. When people play to lose, they lose. When will gamblers learn....Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
Give me a link to your special plays / strategies Rob. I am willing to try them out with an open mind. Practicing at first at home before risking with real money at the casino. At the present time I strictly play the math and rarely if ever make any mistakes playing primarily DDB, JOB, and some DW variations. I am intrigued with the possibility of other strategies that are out there that might make it possible to win. I do not play any carnival type games such as ult x or stp. I do normally play either triple play, five play, or 10 play. Other than moving to a different machine or switching to a different game on the same machine or switching up the speed of the game or the pace at which I am playing I am at a loss at what I can do to increase my chances when I draw three of a kind or four to a royal and the card or cards that I need do not show up. Looking forward to your help and your advice.
I guess I'm just at a loss on how & why people play the way they do, that's all. What you do and how you do it is what most players do. I did the same things years ago.
I would love to be able to help you understand the special plays that deviate from optimal strategy, but that's just a part of the overall strategy. We would have to sit and talk for a bit, then there would be training at the machines. I'd be able to meet up in Nov. sometime, and it would be no problem for me at all. Where do you live?
For now, drop the JoB game. You can always expect to lose on it unless you hit a royal or have a visit with an inordinate number of quads and SF's. People only play that game for points & comps, not money.
We live in Texas but we go to Tahoe several times a year. We will be there in 3 weeks. We will also be in Tahoe the end of July for wife's birthday and to see Kenny Chesney in concert and the Pink Floyd light show. We will also be in Vegas in August for the 7 star event. That is all that we have definite to Nevada at this time. Our home property is Horseshoe Bossier City. If you are ever in the area and we have enough notice we would love to meet you there. They still have some fairly decent video poker available there but like everywhere else the pay tables have been trimmed a bit.
We left Lake Tahoe a week ago and are now traveling. Our favorite place on the earth. That Pink Floyd Light Show is excellent. I saw it in Munich some years ago and it was great then, so it's probably even better today.
We won't be in Nevada again for a while, but after Nov. if you do get to LV then I'll be around. I owe Alan dinner and I plan on fulfilling that in either Nov. or Dec.
I've been to your "home" casino 3 times. Great trips, but too many mosquitos for me.
We prefer Tahoe in the Summer as a place to get out of the Texas heat but we usually go at least once in the Winter. I would not advise traveling to Texas anytime soon as we are getting way too much rain. As soon as it quits it will be just at the time when it begins to turn hotter than hell around here and those mosquitoes you are referring to are likely to carry you and your motor home away.
In the meantime I googled your special plays and surprise, surprise it linked me back here to Alan Mendelson's website. I am in the process of reading through them. Some of them like holding the ace and tossing the 4 to a strait make sense but I don't know about others such as tossing the three queens and keeping the 3 to a royal. I do like your thought though of realizing that the sessions we play are in the short term while the math that dictates long term optimal strategy is based on the long term. That is the intriguing part of gambling, taking chances along the way to increase the number on opportunities you have to get a few extra premium hands. And we all know that if you do not get your share of premium hands you are going to lose because the house has the edge in video poker just as it does in every game at the casino.
You have the right mindset about game opportunities. There's so much more to explain about those special plays, and I hope I have the chance to do that. For instance, almost every time I would hold 3 Q's just like everybody else since it's the obvious optimal hold. But in my strategy, at the top 2 levels only, only on BP, only with 3-to-the-royal, and when hitting the quad would not allow me to recover enough to return to at least the next lowest level PLUS pocket a "soft profit" of a minimum 40 credits at that lower denomination, only then would I toss a hand as strong as trips. I've only made this play twice in my life. It worked once.
So I hope you see there's much more than meets the eye here, but you have to have the stomach to play the strategy that's been so successful for me (which really means "bankroll", and any 7-stars player would seem to have that).
I've read about the rain & flooding down there. I can just imagine what the mosquitos would be like. I'm 100% Italian with olive oil in my skin--just what they like.
Rob, do you play any triple, five, or ten play or do you think that single game play is the best overall way to play at the casino? The main reason I like the multihand is it seems that it takes some of the variation out of the game. That and I feel like I get more 4 oak''s this way.
I have always only recommended five-play if players want to go after the multi-plays. 3-play doesn't give enough opportunity when a near-hit deal comes up, ten-play is good but too often strips the player of their inadequate bankroll before they know what hit them, and the 25/50/100 play games are gimmick games and not for serious players. I developed a five-play strategy also, and I can go over that with you too if you like.
What would you differently in 5 play that you would not do in single game play?
For holds, that depends on the game, but there are few differences from single-play. I do not play BP on five-play--only the advanced BP games like SDBP & TBP+. I use 2000 credits on each level, and those levels are 25c/$1/$5 (and $25 if fully prepared). The win goal is only $500/session, no matter how high a denomination is played because the goal is solely a function of the lowest denomination played in five-play.
I am also doing a cruise this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
BTW, you are paying more than "port fees and taxes". That's what NCL calls it, but it's a lie.
You're actually paying port fees, taxes, and NCF (non-comissioned fare).
But it's still a great deal.
Why did you choose September? Might be a bit cold.
Are you doing a round trip or one-way? I did a one-way from Vancouver to Whittier (near Anchorage) in August 2014.
Anyway, let me know if you need any tips regarding NCL. I know the line really well.
We decided to go in September because we have never been to Alaska that time of year before. That and I am hoping that by going in September the number of screaming kids on board will be at a minimum. From what I have been reading the weather there is usually quite nice that time of year. We are doing a round trip out of Seattle on the NCL Jewel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I would be interested in hearing about any and all tips you have regarding NCL and about the Jewel if you have ever been on her before. On our cruise on the NCL Dawn last December the smoke in the casino was really bad so we probably won't be spending much time in the casino. The ports we will be stopping at are Juneau, Skagway, Ketchican, and Victoria. We have been to all of them before except for Victoria but it has been almost 20 years. Please let us know about anything at any of these ports that we need to either do or we need to avoid.
Thanks for all the posting you have done in the past in regards to CET/NCL cruises.
Okay, here are some tips:
Onboard, avoid the casino. You are not expected to play. A host will not bother you. The casino odds are TERRIBLE, and the comps you earn are lousy. Also, there is a lot of smoke there. The tournaments are terrible, as they literally rake half of it for themselves!
I recommend going to the specialty restaurants and avoiding the main dining room. The main dining room sucks. The specialty restaurants are considerably better -- not gourmet, but way better than the main dining room. For $119, you can get a package giving you unlimited specialty restaurants. Also, with that package, you can order unlimited main dishes for free.
Do not buy any art or jewelry on board. It is heavily marked up.
You may want to consider switching to the 1-way Vancouver cruise to Anchorage, as you get to see Glacier Bay and Hubbard Glacier. On your selected cruise, you only get the inferior Sawyer Glacier, and it's listed as "cruise past Sawyer", so I'm not sure what that means.
Anyway, here's what I would suggest at the ports:
Ketchikan: In town, ask them how to take the city bus ($2 each - have exact change) to Totem Bight State Park. It's way out of the way, and barely any tourists are there. It's free, not gimmicky at all, has a small rainforest trail and a tidepool beach, and you will be done in about an hour.
Juneau: Rent a car, drive to Mendenhall Glacier, and take the hike to the waterfall. (You have to view the glacier from afar, unlike in the '90s when you could walk right up). Then drive north on route 7 along the coast, to see some very nice scenery and various beaches which you will have all to yourself.
Skagway: Rent a car, drive into British Columbia, and then into the Yukon. Don't bother going all the way to Whitehorse, though, as there's not much there. I would suggest going to Lewis Lake (in the Yukon, look it up on a map), see it (it's beautiful, and there is almost no one there), and turn around. Many scenic points along the way.
Victoria: Visit Butchart Gardens if you haven't been there before, though it's better to be there on Saturday (you are coming Friday), as they have the best fireworks display at night that I have ever seen. But you won't get to see that. Also of moderate interest is the Fiskgard Lighthouse. Rent a car here if possible.
Don't expect the glaciers to look like they did in 1995. I was also there in 1995, and sadly they have receded a lot.
Try to avoid taking any of the ship excursions. You can do it better and cheaper on your own.
Very nice advice. The Alaska cruise has to be special. I have taken several to the Caribbean cruises and they aren't bad, but nothing like Alaska. I must say, however, that I had some luck in the casino. I hit one of my nicest handpays on one and won a Texas Hold'Em tourney on another. But I may have just been pure lucky. Over all, thanks for the info.
Dan your warning about the main dining surprises me. While I've never been on a cruise all I ever hear about is the abundance of great food that's included in the base price. And your advice is pay more to avoid it?
Dan thanks for your advice for the Alaska ports. We have another couple that will be taking this cruise with us and I think a rent car would be a great way to see both Juneau and Skagway. Would you book the rent car in advance or wait till you get there? Any particular company that you would recommend?
Agree with you about casino. We don't smoke and there is so many other things to do. And there is really no incentive to play and 6/5 paytables have no appeal to me.
Like Alan said, I am surprised at your comments about the main dining room. On our last cruise, we did some specialty restaurants, LaBistro, LaCusina, and Moderno and thought the main dining room food was just as good maybe even better. Service was a little slower at main dining room but not that bad.
We have already booked our airfare so it would be too late to change cruises. Besides we have already done the Vancouver to Anchorage and it will be interesting to see the differences.
Have you ever sailed on the NCL Jewel? And if you have were any of your comments directed towards her?
Definitely rent the cars now. Go to the AVIS website and reserve them. It will not cost you anything until you get there. Make sure to print out your reservation and make SURE they give you the type of car you reserved. The Juneau AVIS tried to cheat me, but I caught them. But they're the only game in town, aside from some Rent-A-Wreck type places with REALLY old and beat up cars, and you don't want those.
The rental cars will not be cheap (it will be more than $100 after taxes), but still cheaper than taking an excursion with the ship.
Alan, the food at cruise dining rooms has not been good since the late 1990s. That was a cost-cutting measure implemented industry-wide about 15 years ago. That's why the specialty restaurants were created -- to offset that.
seemoreroyals, I am surprised you enjoyed the MDR food. Most people, myself included, think it is bland and tasteless. But if you really enjoyed it more than the specialties, I guess go ahead and save the money. I will say that La Cucina is mediocre, and Moderno is a poor man's Fogo De Chao. But Cagney's and Le Bistro are both fairly good.
I did take the Jewel in December 2013, from New Orleans. I don't have that much to say about it specifically. It's one of their older ships, and is just your average, medium sized cruise ship. I found the buffet on the Jewel to be better than the one on the Sun (and I'm not usually a buffet person). I found the staff of the Sun to be a lot nicer and friendlier than the Jewel, where the staff was sometimes surly. The Jewel officers were constantly walking around the specialty restaurants and saying hello to people, so they were very accessible. If you have a problem, I suggest going to the appropriate officer. On-board customer service is pretty good at NCL. That's actually why I quit cruising Princess, because it was the opposite.
Also, I highly suggest you drive north up route 7 in Juneau and stop at Lewis Lake in the Yukon (Skagway port). These are both out-of-the-way and you will find peaceful, beautiful, summery Alaskan scenery without anyone around. There's something to be said for having an entire beach or lake to yourself, even if just for a short time.
I believe as a Ceasars affiliated guest you will be issued a "drink" card that will allow free drinks when playing at the casino. I think the only reason to gamble at all in the NCL casino is to get free well drinks. Alcohol is otherwise a big up-sell on NCL. I like to go to a casino bar, play a few hands of video poker, get a drink then walk off with it after leaving a tip.
FAB
When we booked our cruise we received the unlimited beverage package as a perk for booking when we did. So no being held hostage to the casinos for free drinks for us. On our last cruise we also got the UBP and really liked it b/c we were able to get drinks at any time, anywhere there there was a bar on the ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
Dan, did you get any priority boarding on your Alaskan cruise since your cruise was affiliated with CET or did you have to wait in line with the masses? On the 7 star event cruise we took out of NOLA we had priority boarding. We were on the ship fast with hardly any wait at all. I am hoping it will be the same way on these CET regular 7 star cruises.
The one I took out of NOLA (the Jewel) had priority boarding, but the priority line was longer than the regular one!Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
The Sun out of Vancouver had a priority line, but I wasn't on the list for some reason. When I stated I was a CAS booking, they stood there staring at me like I was speaking a foreign language. Finally after speaking to 3 people, they gave up arguing with me and moved me to the priority area, where there was zero line.
Glad to hear Dan that we should get priority boarding. Last night I did some research regarding rent cars for Skagway and Juneau. Skagway we will be there from 7:00AM - 5:30PM plenty of time to justify a rent car. Juneau we are only going to be there from 7:00AM - 1:30PM. Not sure if this is long enough to justify a rent car. When I talked to the rent car places AVIS quoted $160/day for Skagway and about $80/day in Juneau. I also talked to a couple of local rent car places that were about half that. I think we are definitely going to do the rent car in Skagway as we will be in port all day, but we are having second thoughts about the rent car in Juneau because we are only going to be there about half a day. And I am wondering how long I need to allow to walk to the rent car place, fill out paperwork, get car, and how much time to allow for gassing up and returning car and walking back to ship. With only 6 and a half hours to work with in Juneau we are wondering if that will still leave us enough time to do anything and still have a comfortable amount of time to get back to ship. What are your thoughts Dan?
The 6 1/2 hours is kind of tight. It will work if you honestly get off the ship at 7, but otherwise don't bother.
For AVIS, make an online reservation and use AWD code W046000.
This is a code associated with a lot of businesses there, and is freely given out to customers of various Alaska businesses. (For example, if you stay in an Anchorage B&B, they will sometimes give this to you.) You will save some money. The $160 is surprising, though. It was a less when I went last year.
Don't use the local rental car places. They give you junkers with 170,000 miles on them, and there are lots of reports of the cars breaking down.
There is a bit of a walk from the port to the place where you rent the car in Juneau. If you don't rent a car, though, you will be stuck taking a tour bus to wherever you want to go, which is a pain. I think you can get ones going to
Mendenhall for about $20/person, though. Don't buy these tour buses on the ship for Juneau. Way marked up and not worth it. You will find plenty in town for much cheaper.
Also, DO NOT take the CDW (supplemental insurance). It's ridiculously expensive in Alaska. In fact, it's a terrible deal wherever you rent a car, but in Alaska it's especially bad.
Most credit cards will cover the same thing for free.
You probably already know this, but just wanted to mention it.
Laughably, I dated a girl in 2001 who worked for Enterprise, and she really liked me at first. However, we got into an argument about whether the CDW was a good deal (I said it wasn't), and she took it personally and didn't want to see me again.
Best post of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Am I missing something, or is kind of ironic for 7-Stars members to be talking about saving 20 bucks here or working the system to the bone for a hundred bucks there?
I also think it's ironic that people will push a button on a slot machine for 75-cents or $3 or $15 yet they will question whether they were short-changed 10-cents at a drive thru window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
I also think it's ironic that certain people won't tip $10 on a hand pay after playing through several thousand dollars on a video poker machine.
The nascent of a banning in progress . Here we go!
I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry W.
Let's look at ironic for a moment. In one instance, people who have no problem betting a million dollars or more each year while expecting to lose anywhere from a few thousand to much more, are suddenly concerned to the nth degree about where they can save a few bucks on product and/or services purchases. That to me really makes no sense, when in most cases the purchases could have easily been paid for in cash that was far less than what was lost. I've never understood this intellect.
On the no-tipping front: I'm not buying anything, not asking for anything, and if I lose a bundle no one is going to come by and tip me for my services that include keeping their job security healthy. Yet if a big winner hits--and although I and everyone else knows it's mainly due to intimidation--tipping is for some reason seen as some sort of blind obligation. So it's not even apples & oranges--it's baseballs & oranges.
Rob I agree with you on this:
And about your tipping comment below -- there is no rule about tipping. And no one expects you to tip when you lose -- and I think that's widely held.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Perhaps those of us who do tip on handpays would be better off tipping at the end of the session when we can see if we actually do have a profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
What is wrong with saving money?
Isn't this site called "AlanBestBuys.com"?
Being frugal and attempting to get value for your money is a lifestyle choice, and extends into your overall financial decisions and general attitude about money.
Besides, it all adds up.
The people who take the attitude of, "It's just $20" are soon saying "It's just $200" or "It's just $2000", and then find themselves broke.
It's also the principle in many cases. If I notice a billing error of $20, or even $5, you had better believe that I am going to say something about it, because I don't want to reward anyone for overcharging me.
Regarding the cruise, there is no point to take a "free" (or heavily discounted) cruise if you are going to let the cruise line heavily gouge you on a lot of marked up items and services. That REALLY adds up quickly.
So if you can get a tour to Mendenhall Glacier in town for $20/person, you would be a fool to pay $79/person on the ship for the exact same thing, since it requires just about zero effort to grab a tour from town.
Dan, yes, everyone should try to save money. Heck, I built a career over more than 40 years in TV telling people to what your money and save your money. Heck, I've helped put people in jail who ripped off consumers.
But the irony of watching pennies after betting thousands of dollars can't be ignored.
Dan, I think your tips are great and thank you for sharing them. They are a true service. But perhaps the best tip would be "don't gamble."
I try not to tell people not to gamble, unless they are close friends/relatives and I feel I have the right to intrude upon their life decisions.
I don't know most of the people on this forum, so I am not aware of their financial situation and what they can afford to lose while gambling. Do we likely have some problem gamblers who post here? Yes. But we are all adults here, and are on this forum to discuss gambling in various ways. Nobody wants to be preached to regarding their enjoyment of gambling, so I'm not going to do it.
I will admit that it does come off a bit weird to care about small amounts of money when routinely gambling large amounts, but I learned long ago to separate the two. As a professional poker player, that is an extremely necessary lifestyle skill. I have known so many players who went broke because they took an attitude of, "A single pot at the game I played today was $3,000, so there shouldn't be an issue with me spending $500 right now. It would be like I just lost a fraction of an extra pot."
Of course, if you are routinely engaging in highly -EV gambling and then acting frugal elsewhere in life, I agree that makes no sense. But for people who try to stick to the best odds games and maximize their associated comps, there's no problem with being frugal on top of that.
I think gambling is okay as long as it is done with recreational dollars. Some people spend $50,000 a year playing golf. Some people spend as much sky diving. Others spend as much on alcohol and going to clubs. Still others spend as much buying a new car every year.
That would be a much better idea if you're playing at a place you return to a lot, esp. if you have some kind of connection to the crew who knows you. But I still wouldn't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I think if you took a survey of gamblers you would find many of us are frugal. Many of us did not work their asses off, and in our case risk liability issues and risk assets by owning their own business just to throw it away by paying too much for something. We built our wealth by living at or below the standard of living of all or most of our employees that worked for us the entire 15 years we owned our business. We still live well below our means and enjoy the fact that we have had no housing or automobile debt in over 20 years. The only debt we have are credit cards that we pay in full every month. Which by the way generate close to or maybe a little more than $1000 a year in additional income with their cash back programs. We look at gambling as a form of recreation. Even if you lose $20,000 a year, if you have worked the system properly the food, flights, lodging, concert tickets, other forms of transportation, free cruises, etc, etc, etc. add up far beyond this total.
Dan you're so stuck on the very faulty notion that -EV gambling means you MUST lose, that you aren't clearly seeing what the overall point of the discussion is.
Here's the simple moral of the story: If a person has no problem risking hundreds of thousands of dollars and more in casinos, then why in the world would that same person not want to make their "regular outside life" easier and less conflict-filled by just relaxing when it comes to issues instead of all the neurotic penny-pinching I see posted here kind of regularly? When I was 25 and my credit card statement was off by ten bucks or my friend failed to pay me back the $5 I lent him, I'd do the same as you're doing now. But by the time I reached your age--and I had just started my interest in casinos by then--win or lose (and I did lose my first 6 or 7 years of AP gambling) all that frugal worrying about overpaying fifty bucks here or an unexpected good deal there, meant nothing, simply because I was a gambler who learned that in life you win some and you lose some. It all evens out in the end. Even though I've won quite a bit of money these last 15 years, those winnings have been chewed up in one way or another--many enjoyable and some not so much.
I've always believed, if you are a gambler, that should be where your stress begins and ends. Everything else is glorious living. You overpaid for something or something isn't quite right with that $20 charge on your credit card? Make a single respectable pass at it and take whatever comes of it with a grain of salt. Pretend you just lost it in a casino, Mr. Gambler. BFD. Smile and move on. You will like yourself far better 20years down the road.
Then you're somewhat like us--up in age :) We became cash-only buyers when we realized we weren't going to live forever. Gambling to most is a recreation, but when you say all those freebies equate to more than what's lost, well, I've heard that many many times from hundreds of players throughout the years. How do the casino doors stay open? It's most likely you've applied your own factors to the free stuff to get it to where you can comfortably justify the huge amount of gambling you do along with the losses. I know. I did the same exact thing for 7 years in the 90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
I may be the only one around who does this, but if Dan is "overcomped" then I am severely "undercomped" when it comes to the TR program. Since being surprised with a 7-Stars card a ways back, I've not even used a free night, let alone taking advantage of all that other stuff they inundate us with. Why not? Because I'm extremely happy just having won some money from them. That's why I gamble recreationally--to win money. Yes I've used many many slot club benefits from many different casinos over the years, but I've never applied any value to them outside of being loyalty rewards.
I don't apply any "value" to slot club benefits either. Yes, I will take them. But the bottom line is only in dollars and cents -- coin of the realm -- and legal tender for all debts public and private.
But you should get the best benefits and make use of the best benefits -- just don't play to get the benefits.
My golden rule is to ignore that "countdown meter" on machines that tell you how far you are from your next tier point or reward credit or bonus.
Well I do put value on the free stuff we get from CET. I would love to win more than we do but like Rob said, how do you think the casinos keep the door open. Alan when you hit that $20,000 jackpot on a $5 machine the other day, congratulations to you by the way, how hard is it to know to hit 4 to a royal. Not taking anything away from you but luck plays a huge roll in gambling. When Rob does his special plays he is gambling that they will allow him to win in the here and now even though the mathematically correct plays are contrary to what he does. So like most people that go to the casinos, I understand that the casinos have a built in house edge. And the only way you can win is to get more than your fair share of royals and other premium hands. Realizing this my wife and I make a conscious effort to extract every comp we possibly can from the 7 star total reward program. And if we have an acceptable loss for a given year we are okay with that and chalk it up as recreation.
Rob I thought you made 7 star last year? And if you did, why not take advantage of everything you can from it? To me it would add to the overall win you would have each year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Absolutely true: you have to get lucky to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
And yes, you should take advantage of all offers and comps. But you don't want to make the mistake of valuing comps so much that you lose sight of the real money that you might be losing.
Because I found much better games at closer casinos. I've never been one to get hooked on one or two casino programs anyway. As far as all the benefits, because of our moving around we go 4,5, even 6 months between staying nearby casino locations. We did cruises in our younger years and these days we prefer a much quieter lifestyle. The short answer is I don't usually play for the benefits, so I can take them or leave the majority of them. However, if I were getting beaten by CET I would certainly try to get at least SOME of it back via the TR program.
Regarding needing more than my share of the big hands to win, that's not true with my play strategy. It's all about quitting when you said you were going to quit after doing what you said you were going to do when you played. What Alan said about needing to be lucky, however, is correct. No one wins anything without a healthy serving of good fortune. My play strategy gives good luck a better opportunity to appear. And remember, greed is a gambler's #1 enemy.
Rob, I used one of your special plays on that trip to Vegas last weekend. I played a little Triple Double Bonus and was dealt a full house with triple-3s. The full house was 333AA. I held only the trip 3s.
That reminds me of a time in 2009 when I was training 3 people simultaneously on a floor machine outside the All American Grill at the Rio. I broke normal protocol and played my own money in order to be able to explain what I was doing to all 3 together on one machine. I was teaching ARTT strategy at a five-level 25c thru $5 machine. I lost my 100 credits at $5 BP but I did have $75 of my $100 win goal in the soft profit pool.
So I chose TBP+ as my $5 advanced BP game to play my 300 credits on, and by now there were at least a dozen people standing behind me and to my sides, watching, listening, and two guys even criticizing who I was and what I was doing. The hand you were dealt came up, and it was one of really not too many opportunities I had to show them the how & why of a special play that deviates from optimal strategy.
Well of course I held only the 3's, to the moans and groans of the small crowd. I did take a moment to explain how it was an "opportunity" to end the session a winner by reaching my win goal. Here's where the two critics began telling everyone approximately how much that hold was "costing me" and how foolish it was. I mildly argued back but didn't't make a big deal out of it. So when I hit the draw button and that 4th 3 came out (a $3000 hit) the "students" actually started an applause while the two critics disappeared faster than the 2 on WoV's die.
It's not something that happens every day but it does happen. And all the math theory in the world cannot and will not change that.