Disgusted with video poker floor people

I am disgusted with video poker floor people and some of the floor people at Caesars are the worst.

If there is one thing I cannot stand it's to have a floor person come up from behind me and start talking to me as I am playing. These distractions have led to errors.

Even worse is when a floor person from the end of a row of machines, perhaps ten feet away calls my name, which causes me to look up from the play and again opens up the possibility of errors.

But even worse than that -- if you can believe -- is that Sunday night while playing at Caesars a SUPERVISOR not only came over to me while I was playing and started to talk to me, but also TOOK THE SEAT NEXT TO ME and continued to pepper me with questions and making the usual small talk of "hit a royal," "get a royal now," "a royal is coming." Meanwhile I kept playing... but when the remarks continued I hit the cash out button and walked away.

It also happens at Rincon. I never had it happen at Pechanga, nor at Morongo. In Vegas it never happened at Bellagio or Mandalay Bay or MGM or NYNY.

Granted I play a lot at Caesars but that doesn't give floor people carte blanche to get in my face.

I've discussed this several times with my hosts and even wrote about it in the post-trip surveys that I get from Rincon and Caesars. We have also discussed it here, and I know I am not alone.

Here's part of an email I just sent my host at Caesars:

Late Sunday night I left the video poker area when a supervisor sat down next to me to strike up a conversation. First she made the usual small talk and then she actually sat down in the chair next to me to have a conversation and that's when I hit the cash out button and walked away.

I might never play video poker there again. And I would be more than happy to tell every one of your executives to tell the floor people to stop their "happy talk."

There were two other floor people who from ten feet away called my name to say hello. No more.

There are all sorts of problems when video poker players are distracted including losing concentration, making errors in holds, even errors in watching the meters (I carefully check for hands played and credits remaining). There is also the problem of distractions used by crooks who want to steal from players -- either handbags or phones or even cash-out tickets.

This is where the famous "customer service of Harrah's and Caesars" becomes a liability and an inconvenience and even dangerous.

The floor people should be patrolling for problems, not creating small talk with players who are concentrating on their game. I know where the "call button" is.

While I don't feel as strongly as you do on this topic, I agree with everything you wrote.

I also hate being bothered while playing, and like you, have found myself startled when deep in concentration while fast-playing VP.

My host sent me this via email:

I’m going to see if your account can be flagged somehow, so you won’t be bothered when you are playing.


I've had several discussions with my host before about this. Even she knows not to talk to me while playing but she is still able to have face-to-face contact which is what Caesars wants their hosts to have.

It's all a direct result of you having no problem doing all the things that keep you well within their radar. These people think you want to be like a member of their "family" at your "home away from home". They don't do it to distract you and they don't even realize anything about what vp "errors" might mean. Yes, the same thing has happened to me in the past when I was a loyal AP, but I reacted differently. Those things annoy me and I always immediately just told them they were annoying and bothersome. It always worked, and I would have never wasted my time writing messages as a defeated and irritated customer.

Just to be fair to the other side: is there any video poker player who wants a floor person to come over to them and strike up a conversation during play?

Just to add some fuel to the fire here since Alan & Rob have discussed addiction issues in the past.

An excerpt from Natasha Dow Schull's Addiction By Design:

The tuning out of out worldly choices, contingencies, and consequences in the zone of machine gambling depends on the exclusion of other people. “I don’t want to have a human interface” says Julie, a psychology student at the University of Nevada. “I can’t stand to have anybody within my zone.” Machine gamblers go to great lengths to ensure their isolation. Some select machines in corners or at the end of a row, while others place coin cups upside-down on adjacent machines to prevent people from sitting beside them. “I resent someone breaking my trance” says Randall, who cashes out and moves to another machine if someone talks to him while he is playing. Sharon has learned to buy a liter of Pepsi and two packs of cigarettes before sitting at the machines, so that cocktail waitresses will not interrupt her. “I put my foot up on one side and that’s the final barrier: Leave me alone. I want to hang a DO NOT DISTURB sign on my back.”

Sound familiar? It seems very easy to fall into that "zone"...

LINK

There is no zone only distractions that can lead to errors.

I think it is also worthwhile to point out just how dangerous it is when a supervisor decides to talk with you about your play.

1. Incident#1 at Rincon the double double bonus progressive was relatively high but I was playing Aces and Faces which is a game with a better return and a game I am more comfortable playing. Yet, there was supervisor standing over my shoulder telling me to try for the DDB progressive before someone else gets it.

2. Incident #2 at Caesars this past weekend, a supervisor kept pushing me to keep playing saying things like "a royal is coming," "next hand is the royal," "get the royal."

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Just to be fair to the other side: is there any video poker player who wants a floor person to come over to them and strike up a conversation during play?

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I can't say I've ever heard anyone claim that. But some players give off the "vibe" that they wouldn't'really have a problem chatting with an employee. These players not only fall into the trap of feeling like a particular casino or casinos as being their "home away from home"....they at times (such as when receiving those glorious hand pays and believe handing out foolish tips adds to the jovial atmosphere) turn into social butterflies, thereby setting themselves up for future irritation. But worrying about "errors" is the least of the issues. Lots of people who have no clue win on the most unlikely of holds. Even so-called "flawless AP's".

Count,

Quite a coincidence. As I read your post, I was ordering Addiction By Design. It's supposed to be a great summary of research over the last decade or so. It looks fabulous.

May I suggest, for all posters, a tandem dose of "Addiction By Design" and "Whale Hunt in the Desert" to cure you of the misguided notion that casinos are your friends who provide recreation.

Rob, why don't you order a copy of "Addiction By Design," too, and we can do book reviews together.

Count, let us know how good a read it is.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Count,

Quite a coincidence. As I read your post, I was ordering Addiction By Design. It's supposed to be a great summary of research over the last decade or so. It looks fabulous.

May I suggest, for all posters, a tandem dose of "Addiction By Design" and "Whale Hunt in the Desert" to cure you of the misguided notion that casinos are your friends who provide recreation.

Rob, why don't you order a copy of "Addiction By Design," too, and we can do book reviews together.

Count, let us know how good a read it is.

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Red:
The book is an excellent read and I have had it on my bookshelf since last year (I think I discussed this book a long while back here on the forums once..).

I admit I have fallen into that VP "zone" on quite a few occasions to where I want to "tune everything out" and focus dead center on the electronic cards. This was the kind of hypnosis I am weary of and I can see why the casinos want to take you to that zone.

Do I believe that falling into a zone is a sign of gambling addiction? Yes and no. No, because of the powerful tricks being used to lure any unwary VP player into that zone (isn't that exactly where the casinos want you to be?). And...yes because gambling addicts use that zone to avoid everyday reality and all its uncertainties & complexities & uncontrollable difficulties.

It depends on each player's circumstance, but kudos to Natasha Schull's work, though. She had a guest spot on "60 Minutes" for a good reason and I do have to take the word of a PhD in cultural anthropology very seriously (especially someone who has studied the Vegas culture for as long as she did).

EDIT: I think Rob should meet with Ms. Schull and talk about VP game discipline with her, haha!

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

There is no zone only distractions that can lead to errors.

I think it is also worthwhile to point out just how dangerous it is when a supervisor decides to talk with you about your play.

1. Incident#1 at Rincon the double double bonus progressive was relatively high but I was playing Aces and Faces which is a game with a better return and a game I am more comfortable playing. Yet, there was supervisor standing over my shoulder telling me to try for the DDB progressive before someone else gets it.

2. Incident #2 at Caesars this past weekend, a supervisor kept pushing me to keep playing saying things like "a royal is coming," "next hand is the royal," "get the royal."

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Alan: Yes, I can see where that would be annoying and it could interrupt "the flow of play" for me. My only question is whether this is normal behavior or not.

It could be normal in the sense that VP is a solitary game designed to exclude everybody else, and you were simply following the protocols of the game itself (unlike, say, craps which is more of a social extrovert's game).

Personally I do take your word for it that you just didn't like the distractions that potentially lead to errors, but my point in my previous post is that there is a dangerously addictive "zone" lurking not far from there that most sensible VP players should be wary of.

I actually think falling into a "zone" of VP play is OK even when it happens. It's only when it adversely affects other areas of life does it truly start to become a concern.

It has nothing to do with a "flow of play." It has to do with distractions that cause errors. It also has nothing to do with addiction -- but it has everything to do with etiquette. It also has a lot to do with floor people egging you on to keep playing when you don't want to play.

I didn't tell you about the floor person at one of the casinos who has absolutely no second thought about coming over to me while I am playing to discuss "stock tips" and the stock market. Finally I told him "I am not here to talk about Wall Street."

I think the floor people are trained to promote additional play and to make plays you don't want to make.

Do you know that there is a security guard at one of the casinos who literally will stand next to me for ten minutes or longer watching me play? It got to be such a pain that I finally asked him not to.

My own host at Caesars KNOWS never to talk to a player on the casino floor -- she always talks to them either before or after or makes an appointment to say hello. She has heard enough of the complaints.

Maybe you should design your own t-shirt so the back looks something like the one below. And if that doesn't work a little squirt bottle filled with water would.

Maybe a Rob Singer bobblehead strategically placed on top of the machine cabinet could warn off the hosts and tip-seeking sycophants.

Dr. Spock,

That shirt gives me a great idea! Thanks for the posting. With a little art work that could look really cool!

Happy Playing,

Quad AAAA's

I just used a custom T-shirt site to do that. There are lots of them out there and you can play around and add whatever graphics and text you want.

Employees purposely talking to players to keep you playing longer or to cause errors? Coming up with tee shirts and other paraphernalia to help ward them off? Where's Dan's input on this?

Do you see how not being in control of what you are trying to accomplish at the casino is affecting you yet?? All I see is people conjuring up excuses on why they can't seem to win, and using that as some sort of twisted rationale as to why they must keep torturing themselves to keep going back to the same place to play. Abuse has no equal.

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Originally Posted by Quad AAAA's

Dr. Spock,

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Just for the record, "Dr Spock" was the baby expert,

http://navyphotos.togetherweserved.com/2136349.jpg

and "Mr Spock" was the guy with the green skin and pointed ears.

http://lifeasahuman.com/files/2010/04/spock.jpg

Mr. Spock's blood was green. His skin was --hell, I don't know. But his blood was definitely green as it was copper-based or something.

Now ask me about the X-Men.

Over the decades Spock's skin had various tinges of green. Never consistent and I don't know why.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Over the decades Spock's skin had various tinges of green. Never consistent and I don't know why.

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Had to be your TV Alan, because only his blood was green. If you've ever seen the color (ok, colour for our feeling-left-out whiner overseas) version of Forbidden Planet, you'd swear parts of Robbie The Robot were green also. Now isn't that a nice name they gave their "perfect" creation?:)

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Had to be your TV Alan, because only his blood was green.

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Let's go to the Internet for some facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_%28Star_Trek%29
http://www.cafemom.com/answers/36721...ave_green_skin

http://www.scificool.com/images/2009...imoy-spock.jpg

Any greenish tint for the original series is probably coloration error. Spock's skin in the original series isn't green.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Any greenish tint for the original series is probably coloration error. Spock's skin in the original series isn't green.

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I think you should go back and read some of the articles on the web... you might change your mind about this. In the early days of the TV series color TV was generally new, as was the development of the character. In the later movies there was also some "artistic license" applied.

Do a web search for:

Mister Spock's Odd Green Color: RCMA Color Process Foundation Make-Up "LN-1"

Burning. Burning.

Pointy green ears burning.

I think the proper way to evaluate this is to read the material on what skin color was intended for Mr. Spock, not the greenish tint often given to various other Vulcans on the show. Spock was originally supposed to have red skin with a skullcap, but that was abandoned because it was too obvious a Luciferian look and his skin would look blackish on tv. The original pilot had Spock with a more devilish look (intended by writers) than what was settled upon for his role under Kirk. As the series progressed, Spock's slightly off-color makeup was abandoned and his skin became pink-as-a-human's.

I guess my argument is that whatever the series writers eventually settled on as Spock's skin color would supercede what came before. There was no storyline where Spock's skin became more pink for one reason or another.

I can't speak on the movies.

Alan, he didn't't have green skin and was never intended to have green skin. What Spock nerds say is irrelevant. Cheap TV's are likely the cause of this assertion.

All I have to say on this topic is I hate whenever they send the casino hosts around. I swear the machines are deader than a doornail until they leave. The past 5 times they have come around have borne this out. I wager my lowest until they leave. It's almost as if they KNOW and they try to keep you there.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

All I have to say on this topic is I hate whenever they send the casino hosts around. I swear the machines are deader than a doornail until they leave. The past 5 times they have come around have borne this out. I wager my lowest until they leave. It's almost as if they KNOW and they try to keep you there.

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At the Horseshoe Indiana (north), they started doing this about a year ago. The minute you sit down at the machine your card triggers a visit from a "host". These are not your old time hosts who can actually do anything for you. These are now young, usually pretty girls, who have no authority to give you anything at all. Yet they have to come over and say I'm so and so--is there anything I can do for you. Since I'm not a mean person or looking for confrontation I never say yes and ask for anything, but since everything is now just points, what is the purpose of this "visit" from the host? If you ask for tickets to a show, they make you pay with your points. Dinner---your points. So what exactly can they do for me?

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Originally Posted by slingshot

and they try to keep you there.

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Exactly, which is what aggravates me to no end. In my case floor people have literally tried to get me to keep playing, even to move up to higher stakes, and to move to progressive games which I have no interest in playing and the only motivation for them to do it is to get me to play more and more.

I play enough, and I don't need them "cheering me on" to get me to play more. Now... if they were contributing "coin in" they would be welcome to cheer me on all they like....

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Exactly, which is what aggravates me to no end. In my case floor people have literally tried to get me to keep playing, even to move up to higher stakes, and to move to progressive games which I have no interest in playing and the only motivation for them to do it is to get me to play more and more.

I play enough, and I don't need them "cheering me on" to get me to play more. Now... if they were contributing "coin in" they would be welcome to cheer me on all they like....

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C'mon, Alan! You can DO it! Rah! Rah! Rah!

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Originally Posted by Count Room

C'mon, Alan! You can DO it! Rah! Rah! Rah!

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That was pretty much what a slots supervisor was saying when she actually took the seat next to me. (See my original post.) And that's why I might never play video poker at Caesars Palace again -- and told my host that.

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Originally Posted by regnis

At the Horseshoe Indiana (north), they started doing this about a year ago. The minute you sit down at the machine your card triggers a visit from a "host". These are not your old time hosts who can actually do anything for you. These are now young, usually pretty girls, who have no authority to give you anything at all. Yet they have to come over and say I'm so and so--is there anything I can do for you. Since I'm not a mean person or looking for confrontation I never say yes and ask for anything, but since everything is now just points, what is the purpose of this "visit" from the host? If you ask for tickets to a show, they make you pay with your points. Dinner---your points. So what exactly can they do for me?

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Yeah this is one really aggravating thing about CET, to where you are forced to use your RCs before hosts give you anything.

I know they occasionally make exceptions for regular/frequent/high-limit players, but everyone else gets the obnoxious answer of, "The show tickets are $200 each, so I'll take 40,000 RCs and set you up with seats, okay?"

I also hate it when friends/peers have a hard time understanding that RCs have real value, and aren't just for wasting. Like, I will have someone come up to me and say, "Hey, I want to take 6 people to the Bacchanal Buffet, it's going to cost me $270. How much would you charge me to use your rewards credits?" Then when I say something like $220, they get mad at me and act like I'm trying to take advantage of them. I get a counter offer of like $175. I reply back, "Hey, I can cash that same $270 in RCs for like $216 in freeplay, so why would I want to sell them for $175 AND have to go to the trouble of going down to the buffet to buy your meal?", they still don't understand and keep repeating, "But those are COMPS! I'm offering you CASH!"

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

That was pretty much what a slots supervisor was saying when she actually took the seat next to me. (See my original post.) And that's why I might never play video poker at Caesars Palace again -- and told my host that.

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Alan: Rob did have a good point in saying there are tons of different casinos to choose from in Nevada with decent paytables. Green Valley Ranch, Red Rock, TI, Gold Coast, ....endless variety..

I myself like to go to several different casinos just to shake things up a bit and see what different types of mailers I receive instead of being tied down to one company.

It feels a bit like opening fun Christmas presents each month with several different casino companies sending me several different coupon mailing "wrappers".

(Yes, yes I know the harsh reality of theoretical losses guiding the casino coupon printing software, but it does appeal to my inner child in a way.)

I agree it is extraordinary irritating when any employee chooses to sit beside a vp player to shoot the cheese, for whatever reason. Who wants to socialize when they're playing a game meant to be played alone? And Alan, if there's someone at Caesars actually bothering you like that, even as a non-meany, it would be understandable if you handed out an insult or two.

I myself like places that give comps without messing with points. Places like CET are especially aggravating with their "use your points if you want it" attitude. That's one reason I've always liked checking in and playing at a dump like Sam's Town thru the years, although I rarely stayed there. Every month for years on end an offer came that included a hundred bucks and a Gold Card, which was good for meals and drinks without restriction throughout the property. The Johnny Walker Blue, Jose Cuervo 1942, high end wines & champagnes, great gourmet Italian dinners at Fellini's, and the countless salmon & lobster tail dinners at Billy Bob's, all without hassle because of my card, were memorable. And Alan, they only required $20,000 thru per "stay" to get that offer, and probably still do. I always pulled my card after hitting that number, so they never knew the true amount of the constant spankings I used to give them.

Actually, on my last trip to LV I did check out the VP at Red Rock and found it disgusting -- and even worse than Caesars. Bonus pay tables started at 6/5 all the way up to $1. There were a few (very few) 8/5 Bonus games at $2 and $5 and a few at $1 but for the most part you were playing 6/5 Bonus or 7/5 Bonus.

Double Double Bonus had the same inferior paytables you would find at Caesars.

Even craps at Red Rock was inferior with lower pays on the horn bets and the max fire bet was $5.

What happened to that place? I won't be going back. Ironically, I went there with some locals who promised me they'd show me some great games to play.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Actually, on my last trip to LV I did check out the VP at Red Rock and found it disgusting -- and even worse than Caesars. Bonus pay tables started at 6/5 all the way up to $1. There were a few (very few) 8/5 Bonus games at $2 and $5 and a few at $1 but for the most part you were playing 6/5 Bonus or 7/5 Bonus.

Double Double Bonus had the same inferior paytables you would find at Caesars.

Even craps at Red Rock was inferior with lower pays on the horn bets and the max fire bet was $5.

What happened to that place? I won't be going back. Ironically, I went there with some locals who promised me they'd show me some great games to play.

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VP 101....again. Red Rock has superior games than BP, such as SDBP and TBP+. They also have 10/6 ddbp, and $1-$25 machines with all the good games in the high limit area. Your fascination with paytables vs. what games are available is extraordinary. If you think you can stop in and win on 8/5 BP and believe you will lose on the 7/5 version, you will never get any of it.

T-Bones is a FAR superior steakhouse than anything any of the CET properties in LV has. The casino also has a much easier discretionary comp policy.

Sorry Rob but I am particular about the games I play. I will walk if "my games" are not available. I want low variance and I am not a high roller like you.

$5 games actually ARE high roller games for vp players, and they are much better at RR than at CET. That's what you play....a lot. Plus there's the comps and discretionary comps you didn't mention, and for someone like you who doesn't travel, RR's would be worth a heck of a lot more.

One thing I failed to mention: the rooms at RR are FAR SUPERIOR to the best ones at Caesars, and it is in a section of town that doesn't even compare to the foreigner-infested Strip. You have a lot to learn but face it, you are so extraordinary addicted to what you've told yourself is a no-way-out situation to the TR system, that you will never allow yourself the opportunities to experience the many better options out there. I just wonder how you ever let yourself get roped into that whole thing.

Rob there are forum members here who will tell you that I rarely play $5 vp. I reached 7stars this year with a profit playing $2.

I am tired of your bigoted remarks.

There is no room for an asshole here on this forum. Final warning.

How is it that other "members" here can tell me more than what your own posts identify? And why are you ignoring the other facts about the rooms, the ability to obtain more and better comps with less play, and the property location?

BTW, Wizard once suspended HIMSELF for calling a member a vulgar name. :)

Last I checked -- maybe two years ago -- Red Rock had 25-cent FPDW. Any idea if that is still available? I know it's beneath some folks' notice, but winning beats losing. Rob is right in that Red Rock is a lovely place, with a good-looking sports book and very nice, modern rooms. Beautiful standard rooms, really. Even the buffet, which is just a Stations' buffet, is a good-looking place architecturally. Haven't tried the steak house, but people say it is top of the line.

Stayed there once 2 years ago. Here is my summary:

1. Room pretty nice
2. Buffet decent for the price. Not a gourmet buffet but food pretty good.
3. Steak House--had a horrible meal. Don't know if that was 1 bad one or usual fare.
4. Race book was adequate but dark. They did bring me a brighter bulb on request.
5. V.P. that I played had bad schedules. I didn't take the time to shop it throughout the casino as play was minimal.
6. Location sucks--middle of nowhere . If you like to walk the length of the strip and go in various casinos like I do it sucks.

I wound up checking out early and going to Caesars for last 2 days where I was more comfortable.

Regnis, I'm more of a person who prefers a comfortable setting in a nice area, and I like on-site movie theaters. The more out-of-the-way, the better. Red Rock, Aliente Station, The M, and Rampart are my favorite locations. When I arrive and leave, I dislike traffic and long waits, and compared to these places, the Strip is a problem waiting to happen.

I carry a small flashlight for issues like you described, but I didn't think the sportsbook was that dark. Haven't eaten at their buffet, but each time I've eaten at T-Bones it was excellent. You probably had a one-time bad experience.

Curious: why are you comfortable in a place like Caesars? Is it because you know people there, you prefer their book, or you're more familiar with the place?

Rob-I have a light app on my phone that I use for brief moments when I need light. But when sitting there for 10 hours trying to read a racing form, the lighting is very important and you can't hold my light app or a flashlight for that long. But in that respect, Caesars is only slightly better. At my OTB here at home, they put in a super powered overhead light just over my booth for me. Others who requested the same were denied. That is really the only place I've played horses that has sufficient light and that was a special favor.

I am comfortable at Caesars just because of familiarity. But more important to me is the ability to roam the strip, at any time of day or night. So whether it is caesars or one of the other premium strip locations, I have that ability that the casinos on the outskirts don't give me. Just a personal preference---more me than a statement against red rock or the others. I'll let Alan explain but I have "shpilkes" and can't stay in one place too long.