"Overcomped" Seven Stars players should avoid hosts

I have talked a lot lately about being an overcomped Seven Stars member.

What is "overcomped"?

It's where you have used more of the casino's resources (freeplay, hotel rooms, free food, other offers) than you have recently generated in play.

I say "recently" in that the casinos have a relatively small window (based both upon time and number of trips) where they will give you comps based upon your last play. Even if you played a whole lot in 2012, it's going to mean very little now if your play has been light since then, especially if you've visited Caesars since then and used their rooms/offers/freeplay/resources.

How do you know if you're an overcomped Seven Stars?

If your offers have fallen below $100 freeplay, you are probably overcomped.

If you have many trips where you stayed or used other freebies and didn't play much, you are probably overcomped.

If hosts always seem to hesitate or refuse to do anything for you, you are probably overcomped.

So basically hosts look at your account when you call and ask for anything, and they see you're in the negative. I don't mean you're in the negative as far as whether you've won or lost money, but rather in the negative regarding what they can give you comp-wise. In fact, the amount of money you're up or down overall doesn't matter, unless you've lost an extreme amount compared to the play you've put in (or unless you've played really high limits).

Hosts will NOT want to help players like you for two reasons:

1) They aren't supposed to. They are trained to not waste company resources on players who are likely to just suck them up and give nothing (or little) to the company in return.

2) They don't get anything out of it. Hosts earn a commission based upon your play. When you don't play, they don't get commission. Furthermore, they can get disciplined, fired, or penalized by comping too many players who don't produce. It is part of the host's job to evaluate who is best to receive casino comps.


Occasionally you will get a host who is either nice or lazy (or sometimes both), and don't bother to look things up. They just see you're a Seven Stars, and will do you the favor, provided it's something small. But that's uncommon.

For the most part, hosts actually thwart overcomped Seven Stars rather than help them.

On the flip side, the CCS (800 number) does not operate this way. This is because CCS reps only see your tier status, but cannot see any details regarding your actualy play (or lack thereof). Therefore, the super-whale Seven Stars member looks the same as an overcomped Seven Stars grinder like me. These reps are actually told to try to go out of their way to help Seven Stars members, and are somewhat empowered to bend the rules in order to accommodate you. Some will, and others will refer you to a host.

But if you're an overcomped Seven Stars member, NEVER allow them to transfer you to a host to "make an exception", unless they absolutely can't help you at the CCS and you're out of options. Instead, ask for a CCS supervisor and tell them, "I would prefer not to bother my host over this", and they will often help you.

This isn't illegal or against CET rules, but simply putting yourself in the best spot to talk to the people who can help you the most.

What is CCS and what's your point here? I think most players realize they can only get so much based on their play.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

What is CCS and what's your point here? I think most players realize they can only get so much based on their play.

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The CCS is the 800 number to reach the Caesars reservations center. CCS stands for Casino Customer Service, but it's kind of a misnomer. It's just for reservations, not customer service.

You reach them at 800-CAESARS.

So what is my point?

My point is that the CCS will do more for an overcomped Seven Stars member than a host will.

Most people don't realize this, and just call their host when they need or want something. Calling your host is the right play for most people, but the CCS is better when you are overcomped, because they can't see that you are overcomped, while the host can.

This isn't just a theory or guess. I have tried it both ways for the identical reservation, and the CCS is always willing to do more for me. The only exception is when there is something outside of their scope of power.

If I call the regular reservations number they will not talk to me and immediately transfer me to a host. I've tried to call to make a reservation without a host and can't. I also can't book anything online. The computer says "call your host."

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

The computer says "call your host."

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Flagged account?

Other than booking a room or honoring an offer, what else can the CCS do that is "extra"?

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Originally Posted by jpfromla

Other than booking a room or honoring an offer, what else can the CCS do that is "extra"?

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Nothing.

I should have been more specific that the CCS can only book rooms/offers.

They aren't a replacement for hosts, but when it comes to getting comp rooms or certain exceptions made on offers, they are often more helpful than hosts if you are an overcomped player like me.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

If I call the regular reservations number they will not talk to me and immediately transfer me to a host. I've tried to call to make a reservation without a host and can't. I also can't book anything online. The computer says "call your host."

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I'll be honest. I've never heard of anyone but you having this situation.

I believe you, but it's weird.

I know you had a situation where your sister-in-law used your RCs for her own room or something, claiming you were going to be there soon (or something to that effect).

Is it possible that they flagged your account for potential fraud after this, and require you to speak to a host to get anything done in the future?

Perhaps figure out the date that happened and then figure out the date you started seeing that "call your host" message.

It's also possible that your high tier score in recent years made them afraid to let the CCS handle your bookings, as maybe they always wanted a host keeping track of you.

Even before the incident with my sister-in-law I could not book a trip online, and I was always transferred to a host.

Hi Alan:

Sometimes I like booking through a host but sometimes when I don't have a host relationship at the location, I DIY on the website to utilize an offer.

I agree it is odd that you cannot book on the website as it saves CET money, time and (perhaps) the host commission.

After I return from a trip I receive a Questionaire from CET asking, among other things, whether I like to book on the website or through a host. Maybe you once informed CET that you only want to book through a host and that is why you only have that option.

I book all my trips with an "off site" host who deals with all the CET casinos. She worked for Harrah's many years and knows a lot of its folks and how to really work the system. Whenever there seems to be any question, for instance on our last flight to New Orleans the Harrah's staff screwed around so long booking it the at flight almost doubled in cost -- my host called around and Tunica Horseshoe picked up the extra $600. She does all kinds a great things for me. Once, I inadvertently left my favorite shirt at Harrah's Tunica Hotel and when I called they told me that the rooms had already been cleaned and there was nothing they could do. I told her about it and, bingo, the next thing I knew the shirt was being sent to me by the hotel. Finally, she is always available by phone or email when I travel and if I ever have a problem I just contact her and it is quickly resolved. So nice to have such a guardian angel.

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Originally Posted by carolinajacket

I book all my trips with an "off site" host who deals with all the CET casinos.

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Ahhh !! You have an "independent host" who really does get a percentage of your action. Can you give us any insight into how your host is paid?

I haven't the slightest idea. It does not seem to affect any of my costs. In fact, as I described above, it has only gotten us additional goodies. For my wife's birthday last September we drove over to Cherokee and found that we had been booked into the top suite -- we have stayed in many nice ones, but this one made the others look like Skid Row. When we got back to the suite a bottle of nice Champaign and a platter of delicious chocolates awaited us. I'm afraid to ask for too many details. You know about a gift horse and all that.

You don't pay for the services of an "independent host" -- they are paid by the casino to get you in the door and to stay there.

I know a couple of independent hosts who hang out at Caesars when they bring in RICH clients from Chicago and they are usually football or basketball players and have their own reserved craps table at Caesars.

Independent Hosts really do look out for you -- because it is your action that pays them.

I don't want to pry -- but you must be a pretty good player.

I used to date a gal who ran charter buses to the casinos at Primm and then on to Vegas and she told me how her business worked. They were 24 hour round trips from Orange County to state line and then downtown Vegas and back to Orange County. The bus would make two stops -- Primm (stateline) for three hours -- and then deliver the passengers to a downtown Vegas casino before the trip home. Each casino paid her $30 per HOUR for each passenger who got off the bus. So at State Line she was paid $90 per passenger and then downtown she was paid bigger bucks.

Using that info, imagine what an Independent Host gets paid for bringing in a high roller?

Alan, that's very interesting about the buses. I knew that these "free" buses were getting paid by the casino (obvious), but I didn't realize $90/passenger at Primm and even more at downtown. Wow. Maybe I should look into starting a charter bus company.

Also, I didn't realize that there were independent hosts who worked Caesar's. I knew of independent hosts who worked some of the Vegas clubs, but I always thought that the casinos only allowed their own hosts to bring action. How does one become an independent host? Do you need some sort of connection to the casino, or do you just offer to bring in whales and ask for a piece of their action? What would stop a friend of a whale from calling himself an "independent host" and splitting the benefits with the whale?

I think an independent host could actually do well working with CET, as they are so incompetent operations-wise that a little prodding by an outsider (with access to do such prodding) could really do wonders. Carolinajacket's stories are a few examples of this, where CET screwed up (or couldn't make something happen) and the independent host was able to use their influence to fix the situation.

Back when I was a big player, I had a series of very good hosts at Caesars. However, I also had an independent host that I used when I was going to Caesars for a purpose other than gambling. He could lump me in with a group he was sending from Chicago so that my lack of play didn't adversely effect anything. I would get all the comps for up to 4 days without any gaming requirement. He did this for me because, even though there was nothing he could do for me here in the Midwest, I let him be designated as my host here so that he got a percentage of my theoretical in Indiana and Illinois.

Well Alan, I doubt that I am nearly as high a player as you and most of these folks, but I am five star, so a pretty high player. My host works for a junket company, but she also does individual trips for me. Last weekend to NOLA, this weekend for a quickie at Cherokee. She flew us over to The Bahamas for the Fourth of July, which included a full meal, drinks, and music on the beach as well as the most impressive fireworks program I have ever seen. We have thoroughly enjoyed our relationship with her for the last four or so years.

A couple of years ago I did a story about an independent casino host. See it on this page of the main website: http://alanbestbuys.com/id335.html He told me that if you have a budget of $5,000 or more per trip an independent host would get you a better deal than an in-house host. I've never used an independent host however.

Dan, regarding setting up your own bus service: yes, I guess that's why this gal was able to retire after being in business all of about four years. She also sold her company to another company for big, big bucks. But she also told me that the insurance for these trips skyrocketed -- she used leased buses and the trip insurance went from literally a few dollars per trip to hundreds of dollars per trip. Again -- leased buses which meant a very small initial start up cost.

In fact, I think all of the San Diego casinos lease their buses from various charter companies.

So, Dan, what sounds better: The Poker Fraud Alert Bus to Vegas, or the Best Buys Bus to Vegas?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

So, Dan, what sounds better: The Poker Fraud Alert Bus to Vegas, or the Best Buys Bus to Vegas?

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I'm thinking more of a slogan like; "To boldly go where no casino bus has gone before".

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Originally Posted by Spock

I'm thinking more of a slogan like; "To boldly go where no casino bus has gone before".

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That's not bad!!

That slogan would really fit for any bus able to maneuver the roads from my place to Cherokee. You'd need a Vulcan with nine lives to steer that thing. Carolina -- I'd visit Cherokee much more often if I could catch a charter helicopter into that place. Or one of those VTOL planes.

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Originally Posted by carolinajacket

I book all my trips with an "off site" host who deals with all the CET casinos. So nice to have such a guardian angel.

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I'm sorry but this is just too funny. Carolina, do you really, REALLY believe that any host anywhere is a "guardian angel" for any player anywhere--unless it's a mother? They're just doing their job for their property and for the entire organization, which is not to be your "friend" BTW. Their #1 job is to make you feel as comfortable as possible losing as much as possible, all so you'll want to come back as soon as possible to do it all over again. If you believe you have a guardian angel somewhere on any casino staff, ask the angel to reimburse you 50% of your losses the next time you drop a grand and see what this heavenly figure will protect you with.

It amazes me how people get so infatuated with the idea of a host. It's similar to watching one of the many, many clueless vp players sitting at their machines and holding a pair of 5's with a face card. These people keep the casinos running, and people who think hosts are there first and foremost to "help" them, keep the casinos' futures bright. My goodness......

Whenever they start coming around, I immediately start playing defensively and set lower win goals until I feel comfortable again.

Sling--what does that mean? How does one play VP "defensively"? Correct strategy is correct strategy. What can you do differently to be playing "defensively"?

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Originally Posted by regnis

Sling--what does that mean? How does one play VP "defensively"? Correct strategy is correct strategy. What can you do differently to be playing "defensively"?

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Yes-but you can also quit-at my level-quarters-when just $5 ahead. Normally I try to play out the 400 credits.

Sling... do you consider the appearance of a host as a jinx?? Do you find the machines stop hitting winners when a host approaches?

I find this phenomenon about hosts that visit players at machines absolutely intriguing. I've been playing vp since 1990, and pretty regularly since then. Never have I had any host from any property stop by the machine I was playing. And if they did, I would tell them to leave me alone and I'd most likely go to a different casino to continue my effort.

Gee, Rob, if you look like "trouble" I guess hosts would avoid you. :D

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Sling... do you consider the appearance of a host as a jinx?? Do you find the machines stop hitting winners when a host approaches?

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I'm just saying l've never seen deader machines and more discouraged players than on those days. And why else would they pick those particular days?

Not sure I understand the big deal here. At Caesars properties, as soon as you put your card in a host is supposed to come over. It is not your personal host--just any host on call at that time. They come over, say hi, introduce themselves, and ask if they can do anything for you. Then they say good luck or have a nice time or something like that and walk away. It takes about 30 seconds all told. I realize simple civility is pretty much dead, but what's the big deal with this?

Regnis if it was only 30 seconds it wouldn't be a problem. It's when a host or floor person or security guard wants to have a conversation about stocks or Facebook or wants to watch you play or cheer you on it becomes a problem.

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Originally Posted by regnis

Not sure I understand the big deal here. At Caesars properties, as soon as you put your card in a host is supposed to come over. It is not your personal host--just any host on call at that time. They come over, say hi, introduce themselves, and ask if they can do anything for you. Then they say good luck or have a nice time or something like that and walk away. It takes about 30 seconds all told. I realize simple civility is pretty much dead, but what's the big deal with this?

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How is this possible? I've played at Caesars numerous times--many in the high limit area and some at the $25 & $100 machines--and I've never had a host approach me. I even had four Aces with a kicker on a $25 machine there about 7 years ago, and no one bugged me then or ever. Could be because I never tip the slugs on the floor? Maybe if you feel the need to have a host lead you by the hand or something? Maybe then they will pester you at machines? I can't imagine anyone wanting this or even accepting being watched like that. Why? Ever hear of staying under the radar?

They don't like you Rob. Do you shower?

He does only if the maid left brand new soap that day. LOL!

These conversations are very entertaining. Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

I can't imagine anyone wanting this or even accepting being watched like that. Why? Ever hear of staying under the radar?

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I always have a host come up to me once I start playing too (at the start of each trip). It freaked me out at first, but now I'm used to it. no big deal. 30 seconds. As far as being under the radar---They are always watching. Maybe not the lazy casino hosts, but someone is always watching.

Over the years I've never had the need to contact or talk to any of these hosts, including at CET properties--and I've been to every one of them around the country multiple times always with the rooms comped. If you book everything via the website you'll fare overall far better than you ever will by getting that "oh so special" and your "friend away from home" host involved. Marketing offers are worth way more than what any of these people can bestow upon their "special friends". Over time you will feel the pain that someone like Dan always feels when you keep getting roped into discussing things with any casino employee. The marketing computers are your real friends.

I can't believe the majority of people cannot see this.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

They don't like you Rob. Do you shower?

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Ha! When I'm in any hotel I purposely take the longest, hottest showers each & every day you could ever imagine, and that's because I can't stand listening to all this stupid environmental green crap that's the fad of the day.

The real question here is why have hosts never approached me? Because I'm savvy enuf to not beg them for anything, ever, and to not pretend that they're my "friend". You set up a relationship with these people and all you're doing is asking to be watched much more closely than if you've always stayed away from them. And what is it that the casino WANTS you to do? Yes, exactly. They want and need you to be setting up these relationships. Again, intelligent, winning players do not care about hosts, they don't care about gifts & cruises, and have I said this?.... they don't care about hosts. All they care about is what this whole casino thing is all about--they only care about the money. Learn how to win and the rest of this stuff finally becomes the nonsense it has always been.

It baffles me how such a simple concept eludes so many people.

Rob-maybe they don't come to you because your card isn't in. I agree it can be disruptive if a conversation ensues, but every time I go it is simply 30 seconds or less. They are just doing their job and I don't feel the need to be rude or disrespectful to them, whether I want them there or not. I do nothing to encourage them to linger and it is always 30 seconds and gone so who cares. I can spare anyone 30 seconds--I aint that important.

I always use a card these days and for the majority of my professional career I used them. Before 1999 when I was an AP however, I was just like most players and always had hosts whom I felt were my special friends and who I regularly made my reservations thru, at wherever I played. And yes, now I do remember them visiting me at the machines back then. I was always respectful towards them, and in fact, I gave several of them Christmas gifts. I even tipped handpays. I was an all-around casino customer, but I have learned.