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There's no question that video poker is the most debated gambling/casino subject on this forum.
What's been debated varies from thread to thread including strategies, comps, the math of the game, etc.
There appear to be different responses based on the goals of the forum members.
So, I ask this question: when you play video poker, what are you playing for?
Please choose your answer in the poll and explain. In the poll you can choose more than one answer.
There is only one logical answer in this poll. But if you ask the casinos that same question about their vp players, they would choose every other answer but that, because every other answer leads to LOSING. So think well about your choices before responding.
I,m also playing to learn at lower levels.
I tbink the lessons would cost less if you used software at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot
Alan, this poll doesn't make much sense.
You ask, "What are you playing for?", but then there are obvious answers which don't really answer the question I think you're asking.
EVERYONE is playing to win money. Nobody wants to having losing sessions.
I think a better poll would be, "What is the primary reason you play VP?", with the following choices:
- I think I can beat it
- I want to gain comps
- I want to earn tier score or status
- Just having fun
- I like trying to outguess the machine
- Other (explain below)
... and then only let them have one choice.
My choice would be "I want to earn tier score or status".
And therein lies the obvious reason you lose. It's people like you who coerce places like CET to cut back on slot club freebies. Why offer more when they've got so many 7-Stars players primarily playing for the points instead of playing for the money?
I see nothing wrong with playing video poker to earn tier score or status, but I certainly wouldn't want to lose too much money doing it. We know that reaching 7 Stars has some value which can offset some actual losses playing. You just have to be careful when you figure the value of the benefits vs the cost of the losses.
I do have a problem with those who might choose "just having fun." I think there are less expensive ways to have more fun than paying video poker. For example, playing craps can be more fun and even cost you less than video poker.
I can have a good time at a craps table with only a passline bet at the table minimum -- and at many casinos that minimum is $5.
Dan is the poster boy for how to lose playing video poker. That explains it all, and there is nothing else to say.
What is your point Rob? How do you justify this personal attack? And your comment makes absolutely no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
I am certain Dan makes the correct holds and plays video poker responsibly. Because he doesn't play your way does not make him a "poster boy" for how to lose. If that were the case you might as well round up all of the VP players in Vegas and take a group photo.
Personally I think your wins rely on you getting lucky. Sometimes you got lucky playing conventional strategy -- which you do most of the time. And sometimes your luck was helped by special plays which allowed certain big winners to appear.
And the more I think about it, what separates a winner from a loser in VP might be nothing more than one big winning hand.
Rob is angry because I don't believe in his strategies and don't believe that he's a long-term VP winner.
If I were really the poster boy for casino losses, then I would have hosts falling all over themselves to get me on property. Instead, it's the opposite. I've been "dumped" by two hosts, and the random hosts I call will absolutely never do me any favors these days (even small ones) when I ask. They all tell me the same: "Your play doesn't justify it."
That indicates I must be doing something contrary to their (and the casino's goals), which means I am doing something right.
At the same time, Rob calls his host and they are willing to fly him to his property of choice on a whim. Why do you think that is?
The one point about Dan that escapes both of you is the way Dan plays, and not his delusional beliefs about why I'm explaining this. HE PLAYS FOR THE COMPS & THE STATUS FIRST, INSTEAD OF FOR THE MONEY. And that, my friends, is EXACTLY what every casino with a slot club wants every player to do. Thus, regardless of how many long-winded excuses & justifications he cooks up, he is the perfect poster boy for how to lose.
When a host tells you that you're play doesn't't qualify you for whatever, it means exactly that. And most of the time, those who feel entitled to more than they've earned end up mired in sour grapes. Oh how we've seen that here.
I've been offered a trip back down south for sure, because they were hoping for a chance to win all or some of that $40000+ I walked out of there with. That's called smart marketing, but they offered it to an even smarter player.
This is no personal attack. It's a lesson.
It's a lesson in self-delusion, provided by Rob Singer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Rob, the hosts don't reject me for extra comps or other things I don't deserve. They reject the most basic, simple, and minor requests, and are glad to let me hang up when I say, "Well, okay, I guess I won't be able to come out then." It is clear they don't want me there. As I mentioned, two hosts even dumped me because I wasn't making anything for them.
They are giving you flights and everything else you ask for because they know you are yet another delusional player who thinks he can beat cold mathematics with foolish betting systems.
You aren't the first "systems bettor" to be wooed by the casinos, and you won't be the last.
Nope! The casino machines are totally different than software. Hot/cold cycles , casino hold, and they don't pay out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I checked "having fun" because when the time arrives that playing VP isn't any fun for me, it's time to get out. I'm not in the casino to "go to work". "Having fun playing" is not the same as "having fun losing". I've had sessions when the cerebral challenge of play has been exceptional even if the results have been less than. Do I like losing? Who does? However, sometimes it's just not your day and if you're a competitor, you understand and move on to battle at another time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Vic
I haven't heard of the "cerebral challenge of play," but that's an interesting rationale for playing vp. As someone mentioned, one would think playing on a simulator would fulfill that rationale, but maybe not. I think this is where people get in trouble -- I'm thinking of famous athletes who are so competitive that they treat gambling sessions as personal challenges.
Great athletes, who have overcome long odds to be among the best, succumb to the notion that they can do the same gambling through force of will or training or whatever. This is one of the issues I have with Rob, who seems to promote the idea that strength of will or American gumption or something is useful playing video poker. Not terribly likely.
You've never figured it out. Those "hosts" you love to hate to love, don't give you the things you harass them for because they know you'll keep on playing and keep on losing whether they give them to you or not. You always seem to think you're outsmarting them with that foolish "I'm overcomped" claim, but rest assured, as long as you continue to wrestle with CET and their TR program, they are having the last laughs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Here's another flash: Anyone who hits a big winner at a casino they haven't been to in 3 years and leaves with the cash, will ALWAYS be invited back in using anything possible as a lure. It never has anything to do with that "theo" you picked up from the geeks of vp someplace along the way. I really do hope you win something BIG this year, somewhere, so you will have a better understanding of how it all works.
Red, I espouse learning extremely strong discipline in order to be able to consistently walk away from machines whenever goals are attained, and to NEVER use casino ATM's, hosts, or casino credit. This actually IS something the American culture has instilled into me. Educating oneself on the things casinos want and expect gamblers to do is not for everyone. In fact, most can't and/or won't do it.
I actually agree with you on the ATM's, hosts, and credit use, although I'd say there are specific instances wherein using credit can work for you (short term) from a convenience perspective. I'm not sure American culture has much to do with strong discipline -- we're number two on the fattest list. We're probably number one on the energy consumption list. I think the fact that displays of your kind of discipline are such a rarity says the opposite about U.S. citizenry, in fact.
You will never catch me carrying large amounts of cash. Credit line with no interest for 30 days is the safest, best way to be in Vegas.
Always an excuse, Rob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
The hosts don't "know I will come anyway" because I frequently DON'T come after they refuse what I need.
Look, it's not very complicated when it comes to casino hosts:
- If they want you there badly, they will routinely call you and try to entice you to come on property.
- If they want you there, but not badly enough to make overt efforts to get you, they will give you perks/comps/exceptions when you ask for them, but won't make the first move to call you very often.
- If they aren't excited about your play, but are still happy to take your action, they will try to do what they can for you when you call them, but they won't bend over backwards for you.
- If you are worthless to them and the casino, they will refuse all requests and basically give you the message to leave them alone and stop wasting their time. Basically they can't stop you from coming, but they don't want you there.
They don't play head games such as, "I'm not going to give you anything because I know you'll come anyway." Their willingness to help you is directly related to their assessment of whether you are a profit-maker for the casino, or cost them money.
Rob, unless you want to claim you've hit a big winner at EVERY casino recently, you still can't explain why they are always willing to spend money on flights and other perks to get you on property.
But I can explain it: You play losing games, and delude yourself into believing you are a winner. I would love to have a customer like you at my casino, and I would invite you to try all of the "systems" you want, while laughing as we take your money.
You know which customer I would NOT like at my casino? Me. A guy who takes advantage of every offer possible, every guaranteed perk possible, knows how to work the system, and plays the exact minimum to achieve the level guaranteeing various expensive benefits for 2 years.
The funny thing is that Rob does have a few things right:
- You shouldn't gamble on casino credit or utilize ATMs while gambling
- You need to understand that hosts are not your friends, but are rather employed to help the casino extract the maximum amount of money from you
- You should not automatically claim that comps earned makes up for losses
Unfortunately, Rob is still stuck in some weird mindset that he can beat very -EV games through self-defeating special plays and start/stop play patterns. It is sad that someone in the gambling world for such a long time still hasn't developed a basic understanding of how these machines work.
The hosts call Rob because it's a privilege to have his schlong on property. It's called "being overschlonged."
(Sorry, folks. Football starts for real tonight, and I need some comic relief. We did some stuff today -- have ULM +3 vs. Wake Forest, which is a good number, but will hedge a percentage of that now that they're -2 some places.)
Unfortunately for you Dan, "how these machines work" has nothing to do with how you can make money on these games with negative expectation paytables. You are still confusing the discussion about how, even on negative expectation games, people can and do win. Rob Singer isn't the only one who does it. I see little old ladies and young kids walk up to machines all the time, hit a winner and cash out and leave. That's all it is. And I see players who violate proper strategy and hold KK instead of for example KK55 on DDB, and draw the quad KKKK and leave. That's all it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Probably true. Liberals are fat; conservatives aren't. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
My strong deterrent & discipline comes from my first ten years of work after college--in the US Govt. It's a whole different story today of course, since they now teach timidness, retreat, and cowardice.
Alan, keep telling yourself that fantasy about that credit line and I guarantee, you will always have a casino host as your best friend in LV.
I did that yesterday at Tamarack Junction Alan, exactly like that with KK55. And who would've thought....giving up a better chance at a FH for an opportunity to hit a quad. Isn't that how "the machines work"? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
What fantasy? That I don't like to carry large amounts of cash? That's no fantasy. I don't carry large amounts of cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Years ago... I flew to Vegas with a date who carried a large amount of cash in her purse (handbag for you non-New Yorkers). SHE LEFT IT ON HER SEAT ON THE SOUTHWEST FLIGHT and didn't realize it till we were in the limo. The purse flew on to Albuquerque. Luckily a flight attendant saw it, put it aside, and it was returned to us in Vegas the next day.
I KNOW you don't like carrying large amounts of cash. But it's always the smart thing to do when you are going on a gambling trip. Why open yourself up to closer scrutiny at any casino--it's just not how a player who plays to win does things, but it's something a player who goes to a casino to feel like a big shot, who goes to casinos to have a good time win or lose, and who for some reason feels the need to be "connected" to one of those prying hosts, who's job it is is to cajole "their" players into doing whatever necessary and within reason in order to empty their accounts. They have no other function. Every single effort they make is for the casino's benefit and not yours.
And you DO carry large amounts of cash after getting cash hand pays that you've talked about depositing the hundys into the BofA ATM. It's not a crime you know, and only dipsticks leave cash behind. And who the heck knows what amount you're carrying? But that's not the main point. Using casino credit is what the casinos want and expect players to do. That should tell you right there that it is not something beneficial to any player. Dancer keeps claiming it's some type of interest-free loan--probably because he always needs the money for his gambling habit. But that's just stupid justification. I'm surprised you don't see the huge downside to this.
Rob. Rarely do I accept cash handpays. Only when I am with Jason and when he can go with me to the ATM to deposit. Sorry I am not going to follow your advice on avoiding ctedit lines.