"I'm a Seven Stars, and I refuse to pay this surcharge"

In most cases, refusing to pay a standard surcharge at a CET property simply due to your Seven Stars status will get you laughed at, but in my case, the tactic worked.

The scenario:

At the Rio, where the WSOP takes place, there is a decent-but-not-great seafood restaurant called Buzio's. It is very popular with WSOP players on dinner break, as it's the closet restaurant to the tournament area, and they serve you fairly quickly.

This year, they realized that they could use these facts to exploit poker players.

They instituted a 15% takeout surcharge.

This surcharge does not exist during non-WSOP time. It's only there during the summer when the WSOP takes place. Even worse, there is zero takeout surcharge if you are seated, take one bite, and then ask for the rest to go. So they are simply exploiting poker players who are likely to show up and order to-go food, and they are doing it with an obnoxious percentage charge, rather than a flat fee.

One night, I came down to Buzio's to order takeout. It was not during a WSOP dinner break. They were not crowded. I was told of the 15% surcharge.

I pulled out my Seven Stars card.

"I'm not paying that," I said. "I want it waived."

"I'm sorry, but that's a standard charge for takeout," the bartender replied.

"I could sit down right now at one of your many open tables, order my food, take one bite, and take the rest to go for free. To force me to have to sit down and do this just to avoid the 15% is ludicrous. So I'm just not paying it. If you can't waive it, get the manager for me."

She went to talk to the manager, and returned about 2 minutes later.

"Okay, we're waiving it for you."

Believe it or not, I could tell the baretender fully understood my point and knew I was right. After initially rebuffing me, she was very polite about it and didn't seem to resent me for refusing to pay it (I can usually tell when I'm pissing someone off, even if they're trying to hide it.)

I ended up taking 2/3 of the 15% I saved and leaving it for her as a tip.

Your argument made 1000% sense. And you're right it's too bad they imposed this fee. And here is a prime example of a fee that should be waived for 7 Stars. Well done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Your argument made 1000% sense. And you're right it's too bad they imposed this fee. And here is a prime example of a fee that should be waived for 7 Stars. Well done.

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It should be waived for everyone, to be honest.

They make enough off the WSOP. They shouldn't be exploiting players during breaks to hit them for 15%, figuring they are entering tournaments for thousands of dollars and probably won't care (or at least not care enough to say anything about it).

If there is a "to go" charge, it should apply to ALL take-out, whether ordered directly or taken from the table. The fact that this 15% only exists during the WSOP, and the fact that it only affects those taking out directly, shows that it's just a money grab aimed at poker players.

I've gotten a number of these obnoxious surcharges and silly rules waived at various CET properties by showing my Seven Stars card and demanding exceptions.

These include:

- Being forced to leave a $50 deposit at Mesa Grill in Caesars when you make a reservation

- Not being allowed to buy a whole pizza from the (now gone) food court pizza place at Caesars unless you wait 20 minutes for them to make a whole new one. (But if you want to buy the whole pizza and pay by the slice, which costs substantially more, they will let you!)

- Being charged $12 on New Years for "plateage" from room service, to share some dessert I had taken back from one of their restaurants (that is, they were charging me for empty plates!)

- Being charged $3 takeout from the Rincon Cafe (similar situation to my post about Buzio's, except it's aimed at everyone, not just poker players)

There's several others, but those are the ones I can think of right now.

Basically, if I encounter a silly policy, I challenge it and use my Seven Stars status as partial justification, and typically they back down.

If the fee bothers you then counter it by not leaving a tip. You put your mind thru a lot of tortuous situations Dan. Someday I hope you realize that all your feelings that you're being taken advantage of in life, whether right or wrong and fair or not, are not the healthiest of roads to take--physically and mentally. It seems this stuff really eats away at you, and you most definitely don't want that.

I think one of the rationales for the take-out fee is that if you sit down and take a bite, then ask for it to go, the expectation is that you will leave a tip, which keeps the wheels of commerce turning even though the restaurant is on the hook for take-out plates and cartons and so on. If you take it out directly, I think many people pass on tipping.

The "make you wait for a new pizza" thing would bother me, but then I'm reminded of my friend, "The Scob," who -- after attending a Penn State football game -- made his way to the McDonald's on College Avenue, which is notoriously packed at that time. After waiting in line for a looooong time, when The Scob finally made it to the counter, he was disgusted by the wait. So when they asked what he wanted, he simply replied, "I want it all." At the time, this McDonald's had their food items in vertical columns and the servers just extracted the bottom item and the next item fell into place. Well, there were dozens of food items, and The Scob ordered everything. Since there was no policy in place (and since the manager was happy to make the sale), McDonald's was obligated to give him what he ordered.

All of the poor bastards in the lines behind The Scob then had to wait forever for new food to be cooked. We left the restaurant and walked down College Avenue with big bags of McDonald's food. Some he gave away; some he fed to pigeons and dogs. Some he threw at people.

The point is, I see why some places have a policy.

Great story. Vizio's is as Dan said, a mid-level seafood restaurant. But it is a lively, fun place to eat if you're in the right frame of mind. My last visit was when I took my daughter and seven of her girlfriends there for dinner after they spent the day at the pool. All the young guys in the place were staring....I think at me?

I see this as a slick business move by Buzios, similar to casinos reducing comps or lowering pay tables. The suckers will still come, and even more money will be made.

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Originally Posted by redietz

The "make you wait for a new pizza" thing would bother me, but then I'm reminded of my friend, "The Scob," who -- after attending a Penn State football game -- made his way to the McDonald's on College Avenue, which is notoriously packed at that time. After waiting in line for a looooong time, when The Scob finally made it to the counter, he was disgusted by the wait. So when they asked what he wanted, he simply replied, "I want it all." At the time, this McDonald's had their food items in vertical columns and the servers just extracted the bottom item and the next item fell into place. Well, there were dozens of food items, and The Scob ordered everything. Since there was no policy in place (and since the manager was happy to make the sale), McDonald's was obligated to give him what he ordered.

All of the poor bastards in the lines behind The Scob then had to wait forever for new food to be cooked. We left the restaurant and walked down College Avenue with big bags of McDonald's food. Some he gave away; some he fed to pigeons and dogs. Some he threw at people.

The point is, I see why some places have a policy.

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The above is what they want you to think.

And that was the initial rationale given to me when I argued with the policy.

"If we let you buy the pizza we have right here, there will be no pepperoni left for other customers who come after you."

(There was no one behind me in line, but they were trying to say that I would be depriving future customers in the next 20 minutes of pepperoni slices.)

But there was a huge flaw in that argument.

I asked, "What if I want to buy all 6 slices of that pizza individually. Could I?"

She replied, "Yes, you just have to wait if you want to buy it as a whole pizza."

"Yes," I answered, "But 6 slices is the whole pizza. So what you're saying is that it's not about preserving pepperoni slices for future customers. You just won't let me get the cheaper price for the whole pizza unless I wait. If I am willing to pay the higher per-slice price, then I can have the whole pizza right now."

She didn't have an answer, because she knew I was right.

It was just a money grab. They weren't concerned about other customers not having pizza. They just wanted to make sure that they wouldn't be depriving themselves of a sale of those slices at a higher price by me buying them for a lower price. But if I was willing to pay the higher price on the spot, they were fine with letting the entire pizza be sold.

That was where I had the problem. If I was allowed to buy all 6 slices individually, I should be allowed to purchase it as a whole pizza for less money without waiting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

I think one of the rationales for the take-out fee is that if you sit down and take a bite, then ask for it to go, the expectation is that you will leave a tip, which keeps the wheels of commerce turning even though the restaurant is on the hook for take-out plates and cartons and so on. If you take it out directly, I think many people pass on tipping.

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Good theory, but not true in the case of Buzio's.

I asked where the 15% went. It did not go to the servers. It went directly into the restaurant's (i.e. CET's) coffers.

If it were a surcharge to assure that their wait staff gets tipped, I would have less of a problem with it, provided that I could be assured that all of it would go to the wait staff.

In this case, they were just sticking it to the poker player because they could.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

In this case, they were just sticking it to the poker player because they could.

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That's just a shame. My first thought was that it went to the waiters as part of their tip pool.

Dan, I have no doubt they were sticking it to poker players because of the seasonal nature of the fee. I had hoped most of that 15% went to a tip pool, especially if cook staff and wait staff shared. And I have no doubt the pizza policy was in place as a money grab if they allowed you to buy six slices separately. I just gave the examples I did to highlight that other places may have at least semi-legitimate reasons for policies like these.

Believe me, Dan, we're probably tighter than you when it comes to extracting appropriate comps and bypassing stupid fees. Some readers may not think that's possible, but picture Dan with an occasional gleam in his eye to do stuff just to point out publicly over-the-top tight comps rules or ridiculous casino micro-management so as to poke fun at the casino, and you've got us.

FYI when something is listed as a "surcharge" as it was in Buzio's, then it almost always goes to the restaurant, and not the servers.

A "service charge" sometimes (but not always) will go to the servers.

I don't believe I've ever seen something called "surcharge" which is then forwarded as a tip.

I'm not sure this is on topic, but it's not too far off. Does the WSOP still extract an alleged mandatory dealers' tip? Is it from everyone or just winners? If so, do they call it a mandatory tip or do they label it as some other charge?

Update:

I asked them again today, and now I was told that the 15% (which is apparently Rio-wide, not just Buzios) goes to the server.

I still think that's a bit obnoxious (a 15% tip for takeout??), but better than it going to the restaurant.

I have been leaving a tip with every takeout order I do, but more along the lines of 10%.

I agree that 15% is too much for a take-out tip.

A related question: how much do you tip for a buffet?

At the Bacchanal buffet at Caesars there is a sign that indicates for larger parties a tip of 18% will automatically be added.

I was at the Bacchanal Monday morning for Father's Day to have brunch with my daughter who flew in from Tucson and with Gwen. (We actually had Father's Day dinner at Nobu, photo below.) The tab for the three of us came to about $97 (but it was under a food comp so I actually didn't pay) but I did tip our waiter $20 for his service. He was very attentive bringing Mimosas and coffee and water and cleaning away plates. Yes, my $20 tip was even greater than the 18% mandatory tip for larger parties. I guess because the food was comped it didn't matter to me.

Great picture Alan. Can't beat a shot of a family enjoying their time together. My son also lives in Tucson.

I tip buffet service--whether in a casino property or not--based on quality of service. It's usually pretty good and I'll leave 10% since they do much less than regular restaurant servers, but I've left up to 30% at times when I'm treated special for whatever reason.

I only go to the buffet for breakfast and leave $5.00, but if its a late breakfast (actually brunch) I leave $10.00.

On another somewhat related issue, I just got back from New Orleans where, for some reason, my tier points quit accumulating. It would show the current amount correctly, but was stuck at the overall amount. When I checked at Total Rewards, the not so bright attendant, who could not even tell me the amount verbally, she finally had to write it down, gave me a lower number each time I went back after playing more. Thus, it went from 2230, to 2227, and finally 1662. I told her I was heading over to VIP and she insisted that I not do that. After a little back and forth a VIP rep showed up and we went to the office. There, a second VIP rep joined the effort, and then the Vice President for Promotions showed up. About three hours later, they told me that all had been corrected and that they had rounded it off at 3,000. Guess what. When I got the "Congratulations" email it read, "you have earned 1,000 Tier Points." Went round and round with them some more and when I got home and waited a couple of days for them to get every thing right, I ended up 5,000 less than they had told it would be. I still have the paperwork which shows that I earned 3,062 on 6/19, 2712 on 6/20, and 2535 on 6/21. These added together with the 5000 bonus for each day should amount to 23,309. Unfortunately, I was awarded only 18,309, which isn't that bad, but its the principle of the thing. I guess they charged me for all the time they spent with me -- correcting their mistakes. Go figure.

Yet another reason playing for points is not in the best interest of the player. People here are talking smack about how much play and which machines where are the best for trying to reach special slot card levels etc., and it's all just such a big mistake and ginormous waste of one's time because it's exactly what the casinos want and expect out-of-control players to do, and it's a good way to lose. Had Dan not received SIX royals in his 5-day time-waster, he'd have left acting like someone continuously kicked him in the groin.

Carolina that concerns me that you were shorted on tier points which also means you were shorted on reward credits. Please start another thread on this so it gets proper attention.

I agree with Rob that chasing points is a losing deal, but I disagree with him that collecting the points that you earned is also stupid. I tend to play for quite a while when at a casino and I can choose to either play without a card or with a card. The amount I win or lose will not be affected by my decision on this matter, but other things are affected, such as the free flights, suites, etc. I would not go to New Orleans, Atlantic City, etc. (places to which I have to fly to get there) if I had to pay for the flight, room, meals, etc. I support Rob in his decision not to use the points, but I really can't understand why he is so critical of those who do use them.

Alan, I hate to admit it but I am so puter illiterate that I don't know how to start a thread. I'm pretty sure this was an anomaly that is not likely to be repeated. I doubt that all those folks would have spent all that time just to screw me out of a lousy 5000 tier (and RC) points. I would be interested in hearing, however, if this has ever happened to anyone else.

I am ONLY critical of anyone who plays anything in order to accumulate points and/or to reach a certain slot card/club status. Such an action is extremely amateurish in that the player is playing right into the casino's hands.

I always use a card and I enjoy the benefits.

Sorry for misunderstanding your position. I think we agree on the issue.