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I am not getting mailers for September from Rincon, including no monthly mailer with weekly offers and bounce back money.
Am I alone or are there others who haven't received September offers from Rincon?
Are they still giving monthly bounce back free play?
I emailed my host who said she'd get back to me... whatever that means?
I have received all of the usual mailers.
I wonder if they finally cut me off because of my criticism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Probably not the criticism Alan. Just the fact that you profess that you only play "free play".
Maybe "Newman" has been delivering your mail this month. Lol
That very well could be the reason. My free play has dropped to the lowest levels but why would they cut out the mailers about events and promotions?Quote:
Originally Posted by dalawa
Yes. I was cut off from all free play mailer offers, says my host. The decision was made by management in part because of "what you wrote on your blog," my host said. There were also comments made about using free play without other cash play.
I guess that's the end for me at Rincon.
Finally they caught your ass!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
And you'll be back by the end of the month. As I've said many times before. You always come back. Cause your a narcissistic sick fucking degenerate who yearns for approval from the 6 or 7 loyal minions on your forum.
Once again only telling the truth. No offence.
And just for the record and to be clear. This is directly from Alan's mouth. So all you nut huggers who worship Mr. M take note.
This is the 4th time he has quit Rincon.
Along with the second time he has quit VP in Vegas.
Along with recently quitting craps in Vegas.
Don't you all see a pattern of the boy who cries wolf. Seeking attention?
Only to crawl back every time due to the spell old Caesar has on his ass!
Spin away but your only gonna come up snake eyes.
dalawa: Yes, I "quit" Rincon several times over the past couple of years. The very first time was when they downgraded ALL of the VP Aces and Faces and Bonus games from 8/5 to 7/5. I quit Rincon then and wrote about it on my main website and within 24 hours after I wrote my article which was probably seen by several thousand people, Rincon reversed its decision and restored the 8/5 games.
Then within the last year Rincon reduced many of its machines to 7/5 again -- and I said I quit then. But when I discovered that there were still 8/5 machines I returned to play. I was just careful to stick with the 8/5 machines.
Then Rincon changed the rules for claiming the monthly free play $1,000 drawings -- giving players only 5 minutes. I wrote about it here and within a couple of days Rincon changed its rule to allow 1 hour to claim the money. That wasn't good enough for me so I stopped going for the monthly drawings.
I did continue to go to Rincon to take advantage of the other free play offers -- even though my free play was cut and cut and cut because of my reduced play. Now it is cut entirely -- so there is no reason for me to go back. Fact is, I get better free play offers in Vegas -- more on this below.
Regarding quitting VP in Vegas: In the past I made it quite clear that there was no reason to play VP in Vegas when Rincon had better pay tables. Now that I am not going to Rincon there is still the option of playing the few full-pay games left at Caesars. My last two $20,000 Royals were both on an 8/5 Bonus Game at Caesars. To refresh your memory dalawa the photos are below.
I never said I was quitting craps in Vegas. I said craps was now more attractive at Red Rock and Bellagio. I know you had venom oozing from the corners of your mouth when you wrote that with unbridled glee, but you were wrong.
Cry wolf? I never cried wolf. Do you know what the phrase "crying wolf" means? It appears you don't.
Frankly, each time I complained and wrote about on my website how Rincon made moves to hurt players Rincon reversed itself. Rincon lost a lot of my action when it tightened its free play and now they've really slammed the door. And who do you think is the big loser here? It's not me. Actually, Rincon did me a favor -- I get better offers in Vegas and now instead of driving 2.5 hours to get to Rincon, I will drive 3.5 hours to get to Caesars Palace or Bellagio where the offers are better, where I will enjoy staying overnight (I never stayed in the hotel at Rincon), and where I don't have to worry about casino managers who panic when I use $80 of free play or maybe $280 of free play, but don't open my wallet.
dalawa -- be sure you check out my two Royals hit at Caesars on full pay video poker. I haven't hit a $20K royal at Rincon since the fall of last year. I kinda like Caesars better now.
And after hitting the Small once at Bellagio, and then hitting the ALL once at Bellagio at craps -- and walking away with a nice profit -- I look forward to playing craps again there soon. By the way, my "new host" at Bellagio called me today extending another offer to get me back. Even though I won at craps he welcomed the level of my action there. it's nice to be appreciated at Bellagio -- while Caesars nickels and dimes me with its Total Rewards comp system and some manager at Rincon panicked that I only used free play on some visits.
Yes. Rincon really did do me a favor. But they also cheated me. While Rincon has the right to stop sending me offers for future free play, the bounce back money from previous months was part of the "deal" of my play there. Bounce back is from two months prior -- and it should have been given to me. They broke their end of the deal because I played by the rules and the rules said I would get a rebate (bounce back) on my play. The way I understand it, my mailer for September should have included bounce back from July and in July I had more than 410-thousand of coin-in with a lot of it at Rincon, and in October's mailer I should get bounce back money from August. The TR website does not yet list the total coin-in for August. I've been cheated by Rincon. They owe me.
So here's a warning to everyone who plays at Rincon: if you play at table games and get a rebate on your losses, and if you play slots and video poker, keep track of your points earned and be sure you receive the bounce back and/or rebates. If there is an interruption in your mailers -- let them know that you earned your bounce back or rebate from previous play and it should not be effected by changes in future offers. In my case -- the decision to eliminate future offers took away the bounce back that I earned from previous play.
Wow. They really cut off your freeplay because of what you wrote on this site? That's pretty weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Do you know specifically what you wrote that angered them? Was it something from the main Alanbestbuys site, or this forum?
Also, while I am not defending them, I don't think they "cheated" you with the bounceback. As far as I know, bounceback offers are not guaranteed. You may feel you "earned it", but in reality, bounceback isn't actually a rebate, but rather a way to entice you to come back. That's why they don't rebate you on the spot when you lose.
I understand your point that you can say you only played with the belief that you will get offered bounceback money if you lose, but since that's just a promotion, they have a right not to give it to you if you piss them off.
I think the real story here is the fact that the Rincon punished you for expressing your opinion about them.
On a side note, I haven't been to Rincon since February, and for whatever reason, my September offers increased over anything I've had in 2015. I'm getting $120 freeplay per period, which means I can get $240 if I stay overnight between periods. Still, it's not worth driving all this distance for just $240 of freeplay. I might see if I can do a visit just to combine it with a San Diego outing, though. Too bad September isn't really a good month for me, as I just don't have much time to take trips this month.
Also, you said you did $410,000 in coin-in during July, "most of which was at Rincon".
How much is "most"?
$410k in coin-in is a lot -- that's 41,000 base tiers worth. To put it in perspective, you only need 50,000 base tiers to make Seven Stars, provided you play the bonus tier system optimally!
So if Rincon is really sending you packing just because you did a few "freeplay only" visits and wrote some negative things about them, they really are clueless.
Dan I haven't revealed this before: my tier score so far this year is well in excess of 530,000 tier points. Yes, bonus points are involved. When I wrote 41,000 base tier points -- those were base tier points, and excludes the bonus points. When I say most was at Rincon indeed most was at Rincon because each month I tend to make just one trip to Vegas where I played mostly craps which earned few tier points.
Yes, according to my host, some manager is up in arms that I used free play without evidence of playing with cash out of my pocket. And indeed there were times I only used free play -- and that has the manager up in arms. What the manager is overlooking is in that month I had $410,000 of coin in. My host can see that and the decision puzzles my host. It must be too hard for this particular manager to deal with the fact that someone can actually win on free play and not have to open their own wallet.
For the record, I have had sessions when just with $300 or less of free play I have walked out of Rincon with $13,000+ in cash. While that has happened twice over the years I have had several sessions when with a couple hundred of free play I've walked out with several thousand dollars.
What exactly was on this website that got the manager angry? I don't know. I was only relaying what my host told me, and that was that I wrote something here. Frankly, I've written a lot here -- good and bad. I have been very critical of how Rincon has cut its offers including free play.
Was I cheated out of the bounce back? Well, it would never stand up in any court because you're right-- they can always change their rules. But let me say this: there were several times during the year when bounce back did not show up in my monthly mailer and when I called my host to ask about it I was told that I had "no play" during the month -- and I know I did. How do I know? I look at my checkbook register for the dates I played when I hit the ATM at Rincon because I do not have a credit line there.
But here's the bottom line: some manager at Rincon is in a tizzy over a player who puts through hundreds of thousands of dollars in video poker because some daily free play offers of $80 or less were claimed without accompanying cash play.
If I were a manager at Rincon and some player put through hundreds of thousands of dollars in video poker but only was getting $80 of free play -- I would double his free play and hope that he put through even more money. LOL
This is especially perplexing because your ADT should still be quite high due to all of your heavy sessions. Your AMT (average marketing theoretical) is even more impressive, since you don't stay in the hotel.
The only explanation I can think of (aside from the manager just hating you) is that you have disproportionately used freeplay only there in recent times, whereas most of your "money play" was months ago.
So I guess the question I'm asking: How many times have you gone in the last few months and deposited real money in the machines, and how many times have you only used freeplay?
But you're right, I can't imagine why they would cut your offers to zero when you are giving them so much action.
I think this is part of the whole 2015 strategy of theirs to push out the video poker "grinders" (the ones who always stick to 99%+ games) and instead cater to the casual gambler who doesn't understand paytables and their significance.
I am also wondering how much profit they really make on a player like you.
Since the Rincon tribe owns the casino, yet it's a CET property which participates in the Total Rewards program, I am assuming that there is some agreement in place with CET regarding paying/getting paid for earning/spending TR benefits.
Consider the following:
Example #1: I earn $500 worth of RCs while playing in Vegas, and then come to Rincon and spend all $500 RCs at Fiore. In this case, I would expect CET to reimburse Rincon for what I spent.
Example #2: I earn $500 worth of RCs at Rincon, and then go use them at Nobu at Caesars Las Vegas. In this case, I would expect Rincon to reimburse CET for what I spent.
It's possible that they just have a reciprocal agreement to where nobody reimburses each other, but I'm guessing that isn't the case (and may not even be legal, as CET is not supposed to "own" any of the Rincon by California law).
So what's my point?
I think it's possible that Rincon has to reimburse CET for every RC you earn there, which further cuts into their profits. Now, it's true that RCs only account for 0.1% of each dollar wagered, but it's still another 0.1% off their edge, and it can be as high as 0.5% if you play on those 5x RC days.
So they might have run the numbers and decided that full pay VP players just aren't worth the trouble, and are now making it very unfriendly for them to keep coming to Rincon.
Dan here's the bottom line, as I look at it:
I am a 7 Stars player who so far this year has more than 530,000 tier points -- most of them earned at Rincon.
My weekly free play has been about $80.
My U Choose offers were $50 and generally I used one per week UNTIL they required that I earn 50-tier points to claim it and that's when I stopped going on those weekdays.
My Friday "scramble" is usually worth another $80 to $120 in free play, and sometimes up to $300 in free play.
I never stayed in the hotel so I always converted my RCs into free play which sometimes gave me an extra $100 or so of additional free play each week.
All of that has some manager upset about something and now stopped all free play offers.
In summary: I put through $400,000 of coin-in per month, and used about $600 of free play a month. Does it make sense that the $600 of free play would be eliminated? Does it make sense that the $600 of free play would be a cause of concern?
Alan, I'm on your side here. I think it's possible someone got offended at Rincon and shut down your offers to spite you.
But I need to ask again, how many times in the last 10 visits did you play freeplay only?
I ask this because casinos are the ultimate in "What have you done for me lately?"
This is because past play doesn't always represent future play. Sometimes whales of the past (even the recent past) go broke or decide to stop gambling, and then they try to "coast" off the comps that their past play earned them. When it comes to offers or RFB, casinos are very cautious about this, so they hit the panic button when they see a formerly active player just show up with freeplay coupons and leave.
Actually my free play has been limited recently because I can no longer bank free play -- it must be used within 72 hours.
Earlier in the year it was easy for me to drive by Rincon while working in the area, swipe and bank my free play, and then return for an actual session. Can't do that now. Keep in mind I have several clients in the Temecula area, and Rincon was a 15 minute detour. And that made a lot more sense than making a special 2.5 hour trip from home.
Alan - You may be too annoyed and pissed off at Rincon to do this, but why don't you try to set up a meeting with this manager to find out exactly how he is feeling and why he did this. Maybe there was one thing you said that set him off. Or maybe he misinterpreted something you said. Or maybe he was just in a really bad mood that day and took it out on you. With your [celebrity] status I would think you could get a meeting.
Going to Rincon is a fun part of your life. (I mean that only in a good way.) And if it is going to change based on their doing, especially after all of the years you have been going there, you should at least have the exact reason why, directly from the decision maker. (Not from a host.)
Set up a meeting? You mean drive two and a half hours to have him insult me over $80 of weekly free play? You've got to be kidding. The last time you saw me there was a day I put on more than 5,600 tier points (before the bonus) playing video poker and you know how much coin-in that is. Me drive to him? He should send me a limo, promise me an RFB weekend with dinners every night at Fiore and kiss my ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp
I agree you shouldn't drive 2 1/2 hours to meet with this guy.
However, why not just call up the manager, and speak with him directly? Tell him everything you've said out here, and ask him what has been bothering him about this site.
Then post the content of the conversation here if you're not treated respectfully.
I don't have to call them. They read this.
I do not have nearly the kind of budget or income to play $400,000 coin in a month, I barely play $200,000 coin in on Jacks or Better spread out over the "entire year". With that kind of play, I'd expect the top of the line offers and treatment. It seems everyone is either an AP or a whale, and I do not exactly know the hatred towards Pechanga, that kind of play can put you in top status everywhere else.
If you are seriously considering ditching Rincon and Caesars Palace for options, Pala next door seems to be a good alternative. You can lower your play to $250k a month and still get into the highest tier on the Priviledges Card system introduced this year. People rave about the buffet at Pala, with the Elite Privileges card, you can eat twice a day for free without standing in a long line. I heard the VP is good there for high stakes. It takes 10,000 points every 3 months to be in Elite, each point is $75 coin in for video poker.
For the record -- I haven't heard from the "marketing manager" or the "mailer manager" or even from my own host. Frankly, I didn't expect to hear from them either because what would they say? "Gee Alan, you gave us $400,000 of coin-in during the month but we can't tolerate that you only played $80 of free play one day."
Also for the record, I haven't been back to Rincon. I wonder if they ever lost a 7 Stars player over $80 of free play before?
On some other forums, and here, some have said that Rincon was correct in its decision to cut me off. Well, consider this:
During the month in question there was one day, or maybe two that I only played my free play. I was getting $80 of free play each week. But on other days during the month I played a monthly total of about $400,000 of coin-in.
The question really is this: must you play your own money ON THE SAME DAY that you use the free play? Clearly had I put the $400,000 of coin-in on the same day that I utilized the free play this "cut off" wouldn't have happened.
Now honestly -- is someone at Rincon a stupid idiot or not for cutting off $80/week of free play for a player who still put through $400,000 of coin-in a month?
Frankly, if that "free play" manager worked for me I'd fire his idiotic ass because what he did was this:
He took away 4 X $80 of free play a month with an expected value of $320 X 99.17% = $317.44
and he lost a player who was worth $400,000 of coin-in per month with an expected casino win of $400,000 X 0.83% = $3,320.
Rincon's management might not fire him, so I "fired him" by pledging NEVER to play there again.
You seriously did $400,000 coin in in one month??? $1 Aces n Faces, right?
I am not a supporter of Total Rewards or CET (out of respect to other members on this forum, I'll keep my hatred to myself), but I have found on various forums in regards to how much they dislike any player who consume their offers without any play in return even for a single day. I read in the past about a 7* stars member who built up good standing for years, and then it all just went away when the spouse used up the RFB benefit without play for a personal vacation other than for gambling a few times.
Now some places in Vegas offer free play as part of the RFB package and not standalone.
I said before, if you do $400,000 coin in of play and are not getting anywhere near the top of the line offers from a place, you will not be living up to the Best Buys credo by continuing. People can usually have their way with that kind of play, but to the casino, penny video slot players carry the most value to the house. I get a sense that your heart is still at Harrah's Southern California.
No. I start at $1 and if I win I move up to $2 and then $5. I had some good runs and moved up to $5 and played a lot at those levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
They've all been taking advantage of me. I just had a host call me from another company in Vegas offering free rooms for three nights and this time $500 of free play. Last time I played at his casino I was there for two nights and had about four hours of total play at $10 craps and $1 video poker.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
People may have differing opinions on this, but to me it seems to be a good problem to have. What I am learning from all this is that casino hosts will take care of their premier players wherever they will go since it is all commission based. Then again I am not a premier player, I only have an assigned host at the Boyd gaming properties in Vegas now with the meager play I put in.
If you do continue to pursue playing at the Bellagio, I am sure you can get into their exclusive NOIR membership. It gives .14% each free play cashback and .14% comp usable at any MGM places. The highest publicly noted tier is Platinum which can be attained with 200k coin in within the annual period starting October 1st, it is at a rate of .13%
After the changes that happened this year with Total Rewards, Bob Dancer now uses 7* as a leisure benefit that will cost him less than the retail cost that comes from it (the Experiences trip and folio credit). He will do 10 Diamond in a Day runs on full pay jacks or better in Lake Tahoe/Reno for an EV loss of about minus $2500. The stuff gets from CET will be more than $2500. There are no worthy plays in Vegas according to his belief.
While I like Bellagio and I like the offers they are giving me -- and offer me for the future -- I ran into a problem on my recent visit. The problem: I was not rated properly at craps. Bellagio still has floor people writing notes on a pad about the players' action. When my new host told me my "rated time" I knew there was a problem. About half of the time I played (and that would include average bet and buy-in) was not reported. However, when I told the host that I was not rated properly he said it didn't matter -- that the play I had was "enough."
My apologies, I've completely neglected your other favorite game which is craps. I've only had Video Poker in mind when I keep thinking about the $400k coin in. I do think your Video Poker play can solely get you good offers from MGM mLife resorts without the assist of craps, though I hope they rate you properly next time. The other place you've mentioned that you were considering was Red Rock which is run by Stations. Although it has a great Video Poker selection, a big winning session can get you no-mailed, a lot of Vegas locals talk about this to be true.
Ironically at Red Rock I only played craps. I went there when my son was staying there to try the small, tall, all bet. No luck that time, but I liked the idea of it because it was easier to hit a winner than with the Fire Bet.
I was intrigued with the video poker at Red Rock but didn't play.
At Bellagio I didnt play much video poker and thats where I used the free play. They said free play could not be used at tables and that's actually fine with me.
September 17th. Still haven't been back.Quote:
Originally Posted by dalawa
Although the person is banned, not sure of the person's intent or what is gained from personally attacking you. Probably the person has followed these forums for a long time to make such remarks.
Dancer is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
CET's Seven Stars program is the best "guaranteed benefits" program in the industry, meaning that once you have attained it, there are several worthwhile benefits that can be used regardless of future play. So if you find value in these benefits (cruise, free hotel rooms, $500 in free meals, etc), then it's worth the -EV to initially earn it.
I know you said "etc", but along with that $100 more in free meals (Diamond level), free rides to High Rollers, and no resort fees to go along with those free rooms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Dancer's play at CET Vegas was 9/5 Jacks or Better before all these changes.
I'm surprised Dancer was playing 9/5. That's not a good game to be grinding if you're shooting for cheap Seven Stars.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
That's a 98.45% game, meaning you're looking at a $7750 average loss when grinding the minimum play required for Seven Stars. The variance can make this especially brutal, making a $20k loss not uncommon! Ouch!
If you want to grind Seven Stars in western US CET casinos, you need to either go to Reno/Tahoe or Rincon.
It was one of those cases where mickey brought up, the machine had a higher theoretical loss rating than the house edge. Thus his profit was from the excessive free play offers.
See, this is where I think Rob Singer is somewhat right about Dancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
Many VP machines have higher theo ratings than the actual house edge. I found this out by simply asking hosts about my theo after my play, and in some cases it was several times higher than it should have been.
But did I get lucrative offers?
No.
Because your offers are based upon a lot of complex factors.
I think Dancer was just trying to find excuses to earn Seven Stars and justify its expense.
You need some pretty damn good offers to justify grinding out a $7700 expected loss with moderately high variance.
Dancer is not concerned (or at least says he is not) with variance. Look at his $100k loss at Palms' $1 10-play UX....or the 0.3% (0.9% if used as food/store stuff in Dec.) at South Point's QQ machines on 2x days...etc.
Caesar's used to be much better than it is now. Consider a game with a 5% theo and 1.5% HE. $200k coin in shows a $10k theo loss, but the EV for the player is -3k. If he gets $5k in free play a week and continues to play $200k every trip, then he's making $2k in EV per trip. Not great for most who don't have monster bankrolls. But for those who have gigantic BR's, it'd be an easy $2k/week, for someone like Dancer.
Are you suggesting that $200K coin-in gets $5K free play from Caesars? No way. $500 in free play is more likely.
In the past or right now? My post was talking about what could have happened in the past. And I even mentioned Caesar's is no longer what it used to be (re: free-play / bounce-back).
With $200K in, you could probably get $1,500 to $2,000 a month [currently]. For a new player, that is.
Never -- past or present -- would you get $5000 free play for $200,000 coin-in.
At one-tenth of one percent $200,000 coin-in is worth $200. Double it if you like or even triple it. But $5,000 free play? Never.
What's so special about your 0.1% figure you grasp onto so dearly, Alan?
That's how "cash" is figured at Caesars properties. One-tenth of one percent of coin-in. Have you got another figure?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Do you realize that $5,000 free play for $200,000 coin-in is 2.5% ??
$200,000 of coin-in is 10,000 tier points at video poker. Dan Druff will tell you that's what he plays in a weekend. It's also what I play. It's what a lot of 7 Stars players play and NONE of us gets $5,000 of free play now -- or ever in the past.
I have to wonder if these off the map estimates is how APs figure their advantage?
$20 coin in per tier credit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Thought it was $10 coin in per tier credit at most Total Rewards places in Vegas, bur $25 coin in per tier credit for the $5 Jacks or Better at Total Rewards places.
Sorry, you're correct. 20,000 tier credits. That's a four day trip at 5,000 tier points per day. And with that you get 10,000 bonus tier points per day.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
My error aside -- Caesars isn't giving anybody a 2.5% cash rebate in the form of free play.
That would turn 8/5 Bonus Poker 99.17% into 101.67%... and can anyone tell me that's what they're getting?
I see where the disconnect is here.
There's a HUGE difference between what they give a new player (that is, one who just signed up for a TR card) and an existing player.
HUGE.
GIGANTIC.
I told you guys before about my friend who signed up for a TR card, lost $1500 at 10/6 DDB at the Rio (on just $6700 coin-in, playing perfectly), and threw out his card in frustration, swearing never to come back.
A few months later, he was inundated with offers in the $500 freeplay range, with several per month. He ended up redeeming about $2000 worth, plus redeemed a cruise offer and stayed for free several times at Caesars, including on New Years.
He never played another penny. His offers are long gone now, but he had he lived in Vegas or had the time to travel there every week, he could have redeemed about $4k-$5k worth of freeplay.
This happened in 2014.
All from one session of $6700 coin in on a 99.96% machine!
However, if I went to Rio and did the exact same, I would get literally nothing,
So yes, you can show up with a new card and get the freeplay offers rolling in for some months, but that's it.
This doesn't apply to Dancer, who has had a TR card forever.
Yes, "new player" offers can be large. But I would consider them a one-time event -- not something that would continue for a couple of months. And I wouldn't consider $500 weekly offers to be the same thing as a one-time $2,500 offer. A one-time $2,500 is worth a lot, lot more than getting in the mail weekly offers of $500 which requires multiple visits.
There was a time -- way way way in the past -- when I would get offers that would total $4,000+ from Rincon in a month but that would include daily offers of about $150 each. And there was no way I could possibly have made use of all of those offers. In fact, those were the "good old days" when the "clock" was at midnight so, for example, you could redeem your Monday offer at 11:59pm and redeem your Tuesday offer at 12:01am. I think it was about a year or so ago that Rincon changed their "clock" so that no offers could be redeemed between midnight and 8-am making it impossible to take advantage of their system by being there at midnight.
Those machines are $50 per tier credit and you have to play 3 or 5 or 10 lines. Granted 40/10/6 DDB has high variance, $6700 coin in is around one hour of play. The strategy changes due to the shorted straight flush.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Have you tried this out? I think there might be value since I did see locals bring a stack of $10,000 wrapped in a bag and went after those machines.
Wouldn't work. My friend got those offers because he was a new player and (likely) because he lost so badly in his first and only session. He probably looked like a guy who didn't know proper VP strategy to the marketing computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
If the Rio took the $50-per-tier precaution with that machine, I'm sure they also turned the theo generated WAY down. to prevent grinders from taking advantage of it.
It's been more than a week since my last update: still haven't been back. And -- never got a call or email or anything from my host or the "manager" in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by dalawa
When I am back in Vegas next week I am going to stop by Caesars and be sure that Rincon is no longer listed as my "home casino." That will mean that my host at Rincon will no longer share in my play in Vegas.
Do you believe this person is lurking for you to prove your word?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Actually... it's more for the Rincon managers who read this.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
Can you change your home casino?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I was always annoyed that they had Rio listed as my home casino, simply because I established my TR card there.
I am always treated like shit by Rio hosts because I don't ever play there (except for the WSOP), and would love for my home casino to be listed as somewhere I have a good play history.
I was told before that it was impossible to change home casinos. That's not true?
Yes you can. I initially started with the Caesars company by getting my first players card at Paris. This was pre-Harrah's of course. And I was just a "walk in" after Paris opened, signed up and played some slots." Later I started playing at Caesars and after a while the system changed me to a Caesars player. Then about three years ago I started playing more often at Rincon so I was switched in the system to Rincon. Now I am going to go to Caesars to "hurry along" the process. After I don't play at Rincon for a while (it might be six months) the system will switch me to the casino that gets the lion share of my action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
In fact Dan, if you earned your 7 Stars at Rincon from that big trip of a couple months back, you might also find yourself listed as a Rincon player. Then you really might have trouble with the Rio hosts.
By the way, when I call my host at Caesars (remember, I've been going to Caesars for 18 years) and asked to take an "annual trip" to Caesars because it was not my "home casino" they told me I had to book it thru my host at Rincon. That's how crazy the whole thing is.
And yes, the Rincon host gets a cut of my action at Caesars. And I am going to stop that. And if it takes six months, well then I will be sure it's done after six months.
But how do I get the process started? Do I go to a host at the property I want to be my home property?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I used to put in a lot of play at Caesars and asked if they could switch my home property to there. They refused, and said I was stuck at Rio. My host at Rio was a dick to me, and denied pretty much everything I asked for, even though I wasn't overcomped at the time, and I was actively playing on every trip at Caesars.
It was really frustrating. I would love to get this changed.
I would start with a host but if you are staying at Rio I can understand why they wouldn't switch you to Caesars. You'd have to stay and play at Caesars.
You prefer staying at the Rio for the WSOP and for that reason you might be stuck.
I've never stayed at Rincon so it's just a matter of where I play.
I've personally gained knowledge-wise from this. I never knew about the home casino thing.
Today is the end of the month, and I haven't been back.Quote:
Originally Posted by dalawa
Hi Dan:
I listened to the Seven Stars Insider guy interview yesterday and he said that CET assigns you to a home casino based on how often you go to a certain casino -- not how much action you put in a particular casino. If true, then you need to stay and play regularly at a casino other than Rio to get the ball rolling.
FAB
This makes sense. Dan stays for days and days at the Rio during the WSOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
Did you mean to refer to the Gambling With An Edge radio show hosted by Bob Dancer/Richard Munchkin where Darryl McEwen was the guest?Quote:
Originally Posted by FABismonte
Podcast Link
You are correct!Quote:
Originally Posted by alpax
I guess I am now officially a persona non grata... no mailers for October. No call from any manager. Not even a call from my (former) host Elaine Almazon. All over $80 of free play.
Alan,
You might want to try to put in a complaint about Rincon to corporate CET. I'm not sure they will do anything, but Rincon is required to abide by certain rules regarding Total Rewards customers.
They are allowed to determine the offers they give you, based upon your action and expected value to the casino, but you could make a fair case that you are being punished for simply questioning some of their policies on your website, and cite the conversation you had with that manager.
I doubt this is about the $80. You have put in so much action there that it would be beyond foolish for Rincon to chase you away for an occasional $80 freeplay only visit. If CET reviewed your play (which they can), they would see this.
I will say that back when I got shorted on that massage at Rincon, and the spa manager tried to cover it up, I did get their attention when I threatened to take the situation to CET and complain about them. Suddenly they became a lot more cooperative about making the situation right.
I do feel Rincon owes you a lot better than this, after all the action you've given them over the years.
Thanks for the tip, FAB. However, I am not sure Darryl McEwen is correct on that.
I question his theory because I hadn't ever stayed at Rio until 2013. Prior to that, I just drove to the WSOP from my place in Las Vegas.
It is true that most of my PLAY was at Rio, provided they count the WSOP as play. But Rio was my "home casino" before I stayed a single night there.
Perhaps they determine your home casino simply by how many play days you have, which means that, indeed, I probably have the most at Rio in a given year.
Really sucks, because as I said, they see that I don't play anything but the WSOP there, and I often get an attitude when I deal with their hosts.
The truth is Rincon made THOUSANDS of dollars off of me over the years. If some asshole decided to cut me off over $80 of free play, I hope that dickbrain loses his job. And I want everyone to know what a bunch of jerks run that place so that they know their play will never be appreciated there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I am back to Bellagio -- probably this weekend -- where again I am getting RFB. Yes, they actually offer RFB like in the old days. Plus $500 of free play. This beats anything from any CET property including the measly free play crap from Rincon and even the offers from Caesars Palace.
Should I complain to corporate? Hell no. I just wish I was a fly on the wall at the next "hosts meeting" when my former host has to explain why her "handle" went down because she lost a player who put on about 400,000 tier points this year at her property.
Screw em.
This is correct. I never stayed overnight at Rincon yet it was considered my home casino because that's where most of my play was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Once again Alan it seems like your playing the victim in this case. Forget EVERYTHING that Rincon has done to you in the past. Let's just focus on one issue. Did you or did you not PERSONALLY ADMIT to playing on others players cards? Did you not admit that you had someone swipe your card for you to enter promotions when you were not in the casino? Those are 2 MAJOR VIOLATIONS of terms of service of which you seem to be the martyr for all injustice. NOW I PERSONALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THESE RULES. I FEEL THAT EVERYONE DOES THIS, JUST LIKE SPEEDING, AND IT'S A CHICKEN SHIT RULE. BUT IT'S A RULE JUST LIKE 65 MPH. If you violated one their rules then it's their call on how to treat you in the future. You can't just pick and choose which rules are most suitable to your personal needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Boygenius I am not the victim in this case. The victims are my host at Rincon who lost my revenue, the dealers and floor people at Rincon who will not be getting my tips, the Rincon tribe who will not be getting my money, and the managers at Rincon who won't have my revenue to show on their balance sheets.
Very simply they pushed my play out the door -- and out the door it went.
I will be at Bellagio this weekend.
Alan for a smart guy your reading comprehension skills are lacking. You never address the issue, but rather circumvent the conversation into what makes you look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Yes or No? Did you violate the TOS of Rincon TR Card program?
If Yes, then you're at their mercy.
If no, then you're lying and your credibility is zero.
Have the Rincon police arrest me. And half of the other regular players in the casino. They won. I don't play there anymore. I hope they're happy -- all of them: the Tribe, the dealers I tipped, the floor people I tipped on the handpays, the valets I tipped when I arrived and left, the cocktail waitresses I tipped for the bottles of water (I don't drink), the waiters at Fiore I tipped, my host who got a commission on my play, the managers, the security guards I tipped when they walked with me from the cage, all of them. I hope they're all very happy. Yep, they saved their $80 of free play and caught one of several hundred (or thousand?) who broke what you described as a "chicken shit rule."
Meanwhile I am still waiting to hear from Rincon. That "manager" never contacted me and all I was told was that I had days of only free play use. I would love for a manager to tell me that they have cut off the free play of hundreds of couples who used each other's cards.
On September 4, 2015:
Here I am more than three and a half months later: still haven't gone back to Rincon. Won't go back.Quote:
Originally Posted by dalawa
Well since Dalawa is not available at the moment I have been told on his behalf to address your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Yup. You're right and Dalawa was wrong. See its not that hard.
Is it because you're not getting any good offers or maybe none at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Here's why I will never go back to Rincon:Quote:
Originally Posted by spojoey
I not getting ANY offers, and I am not even getting ANY mailers about promotions or Seven Stars benefits.
My host Elaine Almzazon nor any casino manager ever had the courtesy to call me to discuss why they stopped giving me any offers, except for the initial comment that I collected offers and used free play without reaching into my wallet to use my own money.
And not only have I been cut off from all offers but I never received the bounce back money that I had earned from previous heavy play.
Elaine Almazon if you were getting a commission on my play... SORRY.
And soon I will be sure that Caesars Palace is listed as my home casino so you won't even share in my play in Vegas.
If this is the way Rincon treats a 7 Stars Player with a half-million tier points, imagine how they'll treat players who are just starting out? Stay away.
It's quite common for casinos to no mail people based on what type of games they play. You're not alone.