Bob Yodeler -- Lifetime Video Poker Winner

Something just occurred to me. Rob says that all "advantage video poker players" are losers.

I'm ahead lifetime playing video poker. I've never hit a jackpot over $1000. Yet I'm ahead after 25 years. Now admittedly, I play just 40-50 hours a year, but I imagine it probably counts for something in the grand scheme of things that I'm ahead.

So the question I have for forum readers is: should I claim to be an advantage player who is ahead, or should I concoct some reason that I'm ahead? I'm thinking I wear special blue shirts that pick up on the vibe of the machines and massage them into winners. Or maybe I could become a spokesperson for those copper bracelets or wrist wrap thingies. You know, "I win with copper," or something like that. I could conceivably sell a lot of shirts or copper.

I would hate to claim to be an advantage player and thereby blow another hole in Rob's theories about advantage players. So maybe copper is the way to go.

Let me know your thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

should I claim to be an advantage player who is ahead

---

You've already claimed plenty that you haven't bothered to verify...you and mickey crimm both.

Somebody like arcimede$ would just say..."either prove it or you are lying".

So why ask forum members what they think? Claim whatever you want...just like you've always done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Somebody like arcimede$ would just say..."either prove it or you are lying".

---

Nope. More silly lies. Neither Mickey or Red have claimed they can overcome well known mathematics. They have nothing to prove. Singer is the only one making exceptional claims. With exceptional claims comes a need to provide proof. Now, run back into whatever hole you crawled out of. Your lying is getting silly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

I'm ahead lifetime playing video poker. I've never hit a jackpot over $1000. Yet I'm ahead after 25 years. Now admittedly, I play just 40-50 hours a year, but I imagine it probably counts for something in the grand scheme of things that I'm ahead.

---

Because you only play 40-50 hours a year, and you are ahead in your lifetime, you might have unknowingly PROVED one of Rob Singer's strategies: quitting when ahead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arcimede$

Nope. More silly lies. Neither Mickey or Red have claimed they can overcome well known mathematics. They have nothing to prove. Singer is the only one making exceptional claims. With exceptional claims comes a need to provide proof. Now, run back into whatever hole you crawled out of. Your lying is getting silly.

---

I'm not sure your conclusion is correct here. I don't think Rob said he "overcomes" mathematics. His explains his "special plays" always in reference to mathematics and notes that his "special plays" are at a theoretical disadvantage. What makes Rob's strategies different is that he quits when ahead, and uses special plays trying to get the "big wins." Watch the videos and read the text: they give the math of conventional strategy and the math disadvantage that his special plays have.

Alan you've got that entirely right. I'm not beating mathematics or even the machines, which naturally are based 100% on mathematics only (assuming they are never biased, which is interesting but I've always identified my winning AND MY PLAY STRATEGY as being based only on randomness from the machines).

My winning is first a matter of having good luck, and because of my increasing denomination & game volatility along with using strategic special plays, good luck has both more opportunity to appear as well as more meaning when it appears. Couple that with a strict, structured strategy that is totally bound by win & loss goals using a large session bankroll to realize a relatively simple 5% win, and the term "quitting when ahead" can easily lead critics down the wrong path of thinking I'm destroying their sacred mathematics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

You've already claimed plenty that you haven't bothered to verify...you and mickey crimm both.

Somebody like arcimede$ would just say..."either prove it or you are lying".

So why ask forum members what they think? Claim whatever you want...just like you've always done.

---

Help me out here, coach. What exactly have I claimed? Inquiring minds want to know.

I think he's saying "prove yourself" a lifetime vp winner. But this thought may be going out on a limb.

Let's let coach tell me what I've claimed. As to the video poker, yeah, I'm ahead -- enough for a used car. If anybody wants to set up a polygraph challenge, I'm cool with that. Are you, Rob? And no fair with the non-professional/professional/non-professional weirdness. Let's see who's ahead lifetime (as in full lifetime) with a polygraph. It'll make great tv.

Red, all that fascination with the polygraph being the end-all in winning vs. losing truth is on the same inconclusive, nonsense level that "AP's" give when you ask them to prove they win: "why....The MATH says I should!"

The only way to prove any particular system "works" in a positive way is to witness the player play for several months every day, as it pertains to the so-called AP--and for at least 10 sessions when it comes to my strategy. This is what you're facing when it comes to winning or losing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Alan you've got that entirely right. I'm not beating mathematics or even the machines, which naturally are based 100% on mathematics only (assuming they are never biased, which is interesting but I've always identified my winning AND MY PLAY STRATEGY as being based only on randomness from the machines).

My winning is first a matter of having good luck, and because of my increasing denomination & game volatility along with using strategic special plays, good luck has both more opportunity to appear as well as more meaning when it appears. Couple that with a strict, structured strategy that is totally bound by win & loss goals using a large session bankroll to realize a relatively simple 5% win, and the term "quitting when ahead" can easily lead critics down the wrong path of thinking I'm destroying their sacred mathematics.

---

Interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Let's let coach tell me what I've claimed.

---

You've claimed to be a winning gambler...overall...lifetime.

Care to prove it via tax forms...like arcimede$?

Do we need a challenge?

A polygraph challenge certainly seems like it would be good television. Alan could film Rob and myself getting all wired up. Seems like a reasonable challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

A polygraph challenge certainly seems like it would be good television. Alan could film Rob and myself getting all wired up. Seems like a reasonable challenge.

---

Rob already has made a bunch of videos with Alan.

Send a link to yours...whatever is out there...with or without Alan.

We've gone over this, coach. A link to my what? Not everybody gets on forums and blabs, blabs, blabs. Not everybody uses their own websites as infomercials. For the record, I'm a humble sports writer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

We've gone over this, coach. A link to my what? Not everybody gets on forums and blabs, blabs, blabs. Not everybody uses their own websites as infomercials. For the record, I'm a humble sports writer.

---

You have over 1950 posts on this forum alone...no shortage of blabbing from you I see, and I'll bet this isn't your first rodeo.

Send a link to your sports writings...let's see if you are what you claim.

An actual AP who plays enough (to overcome variance) and properly analyzes each spot WILL end up winning.

The APs who end up losing are either underbankrolled, playing too little to beat variance, or believing they have an edge when they really don't.

As I've said before, Rob's special plays are good advice for the one-time video poker player who wants to increase his odds of a big win, at the expense of a little overall EV.

In summary:

Mathematical plays: Grinds out hands at the lowest possible theoretical loss, but will usually result in a loss after a lot of hands played.

Rob's plays: Will lose MORE on average than the math plays, but will increase your chances of having a lucky win.

In short, Rob's plays are increasing variance at the expense of expected return.

The problem here is that Rob claims to have used his plays consistently for 10 years, and made a million dollars doing so. I can't see how such luck could hold up, as Rob's strategies in long term VP play will end up with a WORSE loss than the math plays, since you get closer and closer to expectation with more hands played.

To be honest, Rob Singer is why I have 1950 posts on this forum. He fits the classic profile of paranormal claimants, and I find the way people react to him fascinating. If you plug in "clairvoyant" or "telepath" for "non-math-based video poker winner," you realize it's all the same process. His claims, his personality, the reaction to criticism, even the self-promoting use of phrases like "the critics," it's just all textbook. It's beautiful stuff. We all "want to believe." Unfortunately, the storyline gets so messy and contradictory (two RVs and all that), that it's getting a little threadbare in spots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Rob already has made a bunch of videos with Alan.

Send a link to yours...whatever is out there...with or without Alan.

---

My videos with Rob do not prove he's won anything. They only explain his strategies.

Redietz what's your secret that made you a lifetime video poker winner? If you bought a used car playing 25-cent video poker, why couldn't Rob buy an RV playing $5, $10, $25 video poker? "Inquiring minds want to know."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Alan you've got that entirely right. I'm not beating mathematics or even the machines, which naturally are based 100% on mathematics only (assuming they are never biased, which is interesting but I've always identified my winning AND MY PLAY STRATEGY as being based only on randomness from the machines).

My winning is first a matter of having good luck, and because of my increasing denomination & game volatility along with using strategic special plays, good luck has both more opportunity to appear as well as more meaning when it appears. Couple that with a strict, structured strategy that is totally bound by win & loss goals using a large session bankroll to realize a relatively simple 5% win, and the term "quitting when ahead" can easily lead critics down the wrong path of thinking I'm destroying their sacred mathematics.

---

So many lies, so little time. First of all Singer has often claimed that anyone WILL win if they use his strategy playing negative games. That has nothing to do with luck as not everyone could possibly be lucky. Hence, he IS claiming his system overcomes mathematics.

And then, he also claims that ALL APers lose. Once again this is claiming that mathematics will fail to lead to wins as Dan pointed out.

Yes, Singer lies constantly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

You've claimed to be a winning gambler...overall...lifetime.

Care to prove it via tax forms...like arcimede$?

Do we need a challenge?

---

Yes, we need a challenge. Bring $10,000 with you, idiot. I'll start at 8 AM and produce a $500 win by midnight. I'll actually have it done by early afternoon while I'm laughing at your punk ass. Get it up, Singer. You and belly both. Neither one of you have the balls that God gave a flea. $10,000, idiots. Bring cash and I'll stomp a mudhole in both your asses. Put up or shut up.

This guy is so misled. Everyone has some measure of luck every time they play. Even ap's. No one wins any hand without it, and no one wins big without it.

Now please....do yourself a favor and clear the tears from your eyes. And don't forget to make your bed!

Someone just told me Mickey's been DRINKING again.....:)

Who's the loner gonna threaten to kill this time. Another bum at some hick Montana bar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slobdinger

Yes, we need a challenge. Bring $10,000 with you, idiot. I'll start at 8 AM and produce a $500 win by midnight.

---

I'll look into travel arrangements and see if I can make this happen over the summer.

I'll be traveling from NYC. What's the final destination?

I'd be careful about a bet that involves winning $500. What's the starting bankroll and what denomination game is being played?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

I'll look into travel arrangements and see if I can make this happen over the summer.

I'll be traveling from NYC. What's the final destination?

---

Missoula or Butte. Take your pick. Bring $10,000 to lose or I won't show you anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'd be careful about a bet that involves winning $500. What's the starting bankroll and what denomination game is being played?

---

I play short term advantages. It depends on what plays I find that day as to how much I will be betting. The max bet by state law is $2. Trust me, Alan. Whoever makes this bet with me has no chance to win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slobdinger

Missoula or Butte. Take your pick. Bring $10,000 to lose or I won't show you anything.

---

OK the quickest flights I see are through either Seattle or Salt Lake City...each about 8 hours.

Now I'll need to surprise you, so you can't front-load these metered games you explained earlier,
and then pop them on the cheap when I show up.

How would I contact you when I get to Montana?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

OK the quickest flights I see are through either Seattle or Salt Lake City...each about 8 hours.

Now I'll need to surprise you, so you can't front-load these metered games you explained earlier,
and then pop them on the cheap when I show up.

How would I contact you when I get to Montana?

---

mickeycrimm@yahoo.com

Ok--we got that one solved quickly. Now--back to our regularly scheduled programming---Singer vs. Arci.

Maybe I'm not getting this "bet". $10,000 against hitting at least a $500 jackpot sometime between 8am and Midnight? So I could run $5,000 through to hit a $500 jackpot sometime during the day and then collect $10,000? Sweet bet on one side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by james40

Maybe I'm not getting this "bet". $10,000 against hitting at least a $500 jackpot sometime between 8am and Midnight? So I could run $5,000 through to hit a $500 jackpot sometime during the day and then collect $10,000? Sweet bet on one side.

---

Coach apparently hasn't thought this through real well. Of course, we still await the odds from redietz.

james, I think mickey's blabbing something about being ahead $500 by midnight.

At least that's what his Moose Drool's telling him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by james40

Maybe I'm not getting this "bet". $10,000 against hitting at least a $500 jackpot sometime between 8am and Midnight? So I could run $5,000 through to hit a $500 jackpot sometime during the day and then collect $10,000? Sweet bet on one side.

---

I will be scouting out and playing off short term advantages. I don't just walk into a casino, sit down, and start playing. I walk through punching up progressive/banking games and crunching the numbers. When I find an advantage I play it off. Average seat time on a play can be anywhere from a few minutes up to 40 minutes. I figure it will take me somewhere between 10 and 20 plays to reach the $500 earn.

So the bet would be you would hit at least $500 within 20 plays?

I didn't see anything about a $500 jackpot... just being ahead $500 i.e., having a $500 profit.

But with a max bet of $2 (I guess that rules out 50-cent video poker) you'd have to win some bigger pays.

If I had to show a $500 profit and I was playing 8/5 Bonus or even 9/6 Jacks $25 video poker and I had a $5,000 bankroll I think I would stand a very good chance of winning this bet.

His post says "'ll start at 8 AM and produce a $500 win by midnight", doesn't say anything about a profit, just a win. So, just producing a $500 win within a 16 hours window doesn't seem to be a huge accomplishment. Even at $2 max bet, it seems very doable. I would have to narrow the parameters considerably before putting up any real money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by james40

His post says "'ll start at 8 AM and produce a $500 win by midnight", doesn't say anything about a profit, just a win. So, just producing a $500 win within a 16 hours window doesn't seem to be a huge accomplishment. Even at $2 max bet, it seems very doable. I would have to narrow the parameters considerably before putting up any real money.

---

A "win" is understood to mean profit...coin out - coin in >= $500

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by james40

His post says "'ll start at 8 AM and produce a $500 win by midnight", doesn't say anything about a profit, just a win. So, just producing a $500 win within a 16 hours window doesn't seem to be a huge accomplishment. Even at $2 max bet, it seems very doable. I would have to narrow the parameters considerably before putting up any real money.

---

So slob should clarify his "challenge."

So how many challenges do we have going now? Let's see:
1. Arc vs Rob
2. Coach Belly vs redietz
3. Slob vs Coach Belly

Gosh... it's good to be a lifetime loser. I don't have to worry about any challenges.

You are willing to put up travel to Montana, and then put up $10K that someone could eek out a $500 profit in 16 hours at a casino?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Gosh... it's good to be a lifetime loser. I don't have to worry about any challenges.

---

You don't make outrageous claims that you beat a game by 1) playing wrong and 2) chasing losses.

life is a challenge

It's a good diversion on a rainy day in California. How many of these "bets" are every fulfilled? Reminds me of the stock bubble years ago and the wars and wagers that would break out over the size of portfolios.

I will start with a $2000 bankroll and turn it into $2500 by midnight. It actually won't take until midnight. I'll most likely have it done by early afternoon.

$2,000 bankroll to be ahead by $500 sometime within 16 hours still does not seem like a high bar. $500 bankroll and 8 hour window might make it more interesting.

Here's the original challenge...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slobdinger

Here's my challenge. Rob is to witness me playing machines. He will monitor the amount of money I put in the machines and the amounts I cash out. If I don't win $500 in a single day I will pay Rob $1000. If I do he owes me $1000. I will make this bet with him for a total of 10 days. This bet will take place in Montana. There will be a total of $10,000 on the line from each of us. My terms are non negotiable. Take it or leave it. If he takes the bet he will lose $10,000. No brag just fact.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by james40

$2,000 bankroll to be ahead by $500 sometime within 16 hours still does not seem like a high bar. $500 bankroll and 8 hour window might make it more interesting.

---

My terms are not negotiable. Take it or leave it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

You don't make outrageous claims that you beat a game by 1) playing wrong and 2) chasing losses.

---

What's funny is that if I really "quit when ahead" I would be a lifetime winner. I just didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slobdinger

My terms are not negotiable. Take it or leave it.

---

What happened to the original non-negotiable terms?

I think I'll pass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

What happened to the original non-negotiable terms?

---

Rob had ample time to commit to the original challenge. He didn't respond so I changed it to a one day, $10,000 affair.

Tell you what slobdinger, I'll fly you to Vegas Super Bowl Weekend get you a room....here's my bet you bring your $10,000
Start at 8AM at either PH,Caesars,Paris or Flamingo. Play until noon.. Take off until 2PM.. Start at 2 play until 6 I'll bet that in those 8 hours you will lose 40% or more of your buy in....
My $10,000 to your $10,000 CASH only...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slobdinger

Yes, we need a challenge. Bring $10,000 with you, idiot. I'll start at 8 AM and produce a $500 win by midnight. I'll actually have it done by early afternoon while I'm laughing at your punk ass. Get it up, Singer. You and belly both. Neither one of you have the balls that God gave a flea. $10,000, idiots. Bring cash and I'll stomp a mudhole in both your asses. Put up or shut up.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

Tell you what slobdinger, I'll fly you to Vegas Super Bowl Weekend get you a room....here's my bet you bring your $10,000
Start at 8AM at either PH,Caesars,Paris or Flamingo. Play until noon.. Take off until 2PM.. Start at 2 play until 6 I'll bet that in those 8 hours you will lose 40% or more of your buy in....
My $10,000 to your $10,000 CASH only...

---

I can honestly say that I would have little chance to win the bet in those locations. As a matter of fact I don't think I could pull it off anywhere in Nevada today. And absolutely would not accept a bet where Nevada is involved. I know I can still show a profit in Nevada, but not on a daily basis.

But I can do it with no problem in my current location. That's why my terms are not negotiable. It happens here or not at all.

How about New Orleans then ? I'll be there 2/7-2/10

Are you flying from LV to NO on Super Bowl Sunday?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

I'm out again for Super Bowl Weekend

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

Tell you what slobdinger, I'll fly you to Vegas Super Bowl Weekend get you a room

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

How about New Orleans then ? I'll be there 2/7-2/10

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

Tell you what slobdinger, I'll fly you to Vegas Super Bowl Weekend get you a room....here's my bet you bring your $10,000
Start at 8AM at either PH,Caesars,Paris or Flamingo. Play until noon.. Take off until 2PM.. Start at 2 play until 6 I'll bet that in those 8 hours you will lose 40% or more of your buy in....
My $10,000 to your $10,000 CASH only...

---

If he plays slowly he wouldn't necessarily lose anything near 40%. Are you sure you want to make this bet?

Betting that someone would lose 40% of their stake in a few hours would be foolhardy, so I'm sure Lonestar wouldn't actually make that bet.

And it's very clear that slob's winning is location dependent. He's made no bones about that, so challenging him to do what he does in another location isn't going to get any response. It would be like challenging someone who says they're a whiz at college hoops to bet the NFL.

Right after game is over... Want to be in 'Nawlins for Fat Tuesday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Are you flying from LV to NO on Super Bowl Sunday?

---

I wouldn't go to Montana if it was in a private plane and three hookers on it....

If you gamble "by the book" location means nothing... Bottom line here is he is just blowing smoke up all your asses....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Betting that someone would lose 40% of their stake in a few hours would be foolhardy, so I'm sure Lonestar wouldn't actually make that bet.

And it's very clear that slob's winning is location dependent. He's made no bones about that, so challenging him to do what he does in another location isn't going to get any response. It would be like challenging someone who says they're a whiz at college hoops to bet the NFL.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

Bottom line here is he is just blowing smoke up all your asses....

---

Maybe he is blowing smoke about his system. But maybe he's trying to lure us to one of his bars where he knows there's a rigged machine?

Maybe he has a deal with the bartender/game keeper to bring in a sucker for ten grand?

That's certainly possible. Nothing in the deal precludes it.

I prefer to think slob may have stumbled onto some of the kinds of opportunities Dancer lays out as existing in the 90's in Las Vegas and elsewhere. Of course, I prefer to think a lot of things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse

Bottom line here is he is just blowing smoke up all your asses....

---

Something tells me that I should just let you and others to continue to believe that. One of the reasons I do so well here is lack of competition for the strong plays from other knowledgeable pros. They aren't here. I should really be writing about strategic gambling in that thread. So I think I will take it over there.

PS: A while back I invited Alan to Montana to witness for free what I do. He offered to put me on TV if I could do it. I turned him down on that offer. I would be cutting my own throat badly by broadcasting it to the whole world. But the offer is still open to Alan. I know he is not going to move here.

I really don't have any plans to travel to Montana anytime soon, and while I appreciate the offer, it's just not worth it for me to make the trip.

If you were in Vegas where it's a simple day trip I'd be happy to come along with Jason and shoot the video and put it on the web and TV if justified.

But if you could guarantee me you could pick the Powerball numbers I'd be there in a flash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I really don't have any plans to travel to Montana anytime soon, and while I appreciate the offer, it's just not worth it for me to make the trip.

If you were in Vegas where it's a simple day trip I'd be happy to come along with Jason and shoot the video and put it on the web and TV if justified.

But if you could guarantee me you could pick the Powerball numbers I'd be there in a flash.

---

The problem with Nevada is the opportunities that exist here don't exist down there. The games are totally different. There are different machine manufacturers involved between here and there. Where the Nevada casinos have taken many steps over the years to counter AP's, that hasn't happened here. I can't do there what I can do here. I get much bigger edges here than I get in Nevada.

This is one of the first lessons I learned early on in my career. I was sitting at a bar in the Colorado Belle in Laughlin having a cup of coffee and killing time. Out of the corner of my eye I caught a well known machine hustler walking across the casino. He was known to only play when he had the stone cold nuts. You would never catch him on even a thin edge play. He had to have the total nuts or he wouldn't play.

The first thing that popped into my brain was "What's he doing here? In this particular casino?" Suspicious, I got up and followed him but trying to go unnoticed. He checked a few machines then grabbed a seat at one of them. That told me that what he was playing was an advantage play....and all I had to do was wait for him to leave then study the play. And it turned out that I got to add another strong play to my arsenal.

I always asked myself that question whenever I seen a strong hustler in a particular casino. What's he doing here? And perhaps that's what some should be asking about me. Why am I here? In this particular location?

I can absolutely understand why a certain casino could have a better play than another casino, and I can understand that casinos in one state or jurisdiction can be better than another state or jurisdiction.