I'm new and want to know all the best deals :)

I just got 7 Stars. I'm curious about all the perks. Also on how to keep my ADT high?



Should I only be gambling on days when I want to put massive volume in?
Does my ADT drop if I'm comped a night and I don't put any play in that day?
When watching a movie I heard you get 1 per day. Is that on avg through your trip?
One site said you can get free rounds of golf. I spoke to a host and he said I'd get it sent on the app, but I think it might need to be requested from a certain casino or something.

Am I able to access pools and gyms even when I'm not staying in the hotel?
Are you basically guaranteed a comped room for 4 days if your 7* and then wait 2 days and could do it again?

Because on the app it shows I don't have anything comped probably because I haven't played much in Vegas.

Which 7* party is best? N.O. sounds fun.

Lady at check in has told me you get 1 free movie per 24 hour period. "Use it or lose it." So you can't watch nothing for 2 days then watch 2 or 3 on the third day and expect them all to be free.

You should be able to get 4 nights in a row, 2 days off, then 4 more again. I've heard of several people doing this. I've never done it (I live in Vegas sooo).

Don't know about gym or pool use when you're not a guest. Pretty sure you'd need a room to have access to that stuff. If you really want that stuff, I'd try talking to a host.

Only way I know to keep your ADT high is to only play a lot whenever you use your card for anything. IE: Don't use your card for a discount at the coffee shop if you're not going to gamble that day. Either play a lot or don't play at all, if your goal is to keep your ADT high.

I'm not sure how ADT is effected and all that stuff when you're on a trip. There's a lot that TR does that's difficult to figure out. But remember ADT isn't the only thing they look at when determine how "good" of a player you are or what comps to send you. They also look at MDV (market daily value -- what kinda shit you get for free.....if you use room comps or not, etc.).

Free movie policy varies by property; I got unlimited last year at Cherokee.

You get a round of golf once a quarter in LV; your host should be able to set that up for you.

Not sure about the gyms, that may vary by property as well. I'm hoping to use Qua this summer even when I'm not staying there, so I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by str8upbrah

I just got 7 Stars. I'm curious about all the perks. Also on how to keep my ADT high?



Should I only be gambling on days when I want to put massive volume in?
Does my ADT drop if I'm comped a night and I don't put any play in that day?
When watching a movie I heard you get 1 per day. Is that on avg through your trip?
One site said you can get free rounds of golf. I spoke to a host and he said I'd get it sent on the app, but I think it might need to be requested from a certain casino or something.

Am I able to access pools and gyms even when I'm not staying in the hotel?
Are you basically guaranteed a comped room for 4 days if your 7* and then wait 2 days and could do it again?

Because on the app it shows I don't have anything comped probably because I haven't played much in Vegas.

Which 7* party is best? N.O. sounds fun.

---

Hi Str8:

Welcome to the board.

* If you want to get the highest comps, gamble only on days you can put a lot of action in. Your discretionary comps will drop if you stay a night and don't play, but as long as you play a day for each night you stay, you should be fine.

* In Vegas, Tahoe and New Orleans as a Seven Star, you get ONE free movie a calendar day. If I check in late on a Friday, I start a movie before midnight then stop it. I can then watch the rest over 24 hours. So if you time a Friday check-in with a Sunday checkout, you can watch three free movies -- make sure upon check in you are "coded" with the "Seven Stars Media Package" -- remember those terms.

*Never played golf with CET so cannot help you -- I see Guy's answer above.

* I am not sure about pools but I have had no problem accessing any gym and even the coveted "Qua Spa" at Ceasars Palace in LV with a Seven Stars card and ID even if I was staying somewhere else. But know that any swipe (or input) of your Total Rewards card counts as a "trip day" -- I was staying and playing with buddies at Harrahs so it did not matter if I was tripped.

* Doesn't matter if the app shows a comp if you are Seven Stars, just call an 800 number or ask for a host on the place you want to stay in the CET universe and get the benefits promised if Seven Stars.

* Never did a Seven Stars party so cannot help. New Orleans, however, is always fun.

BTW, I know you are new but the "Total Reward and MLIFE" sub-forum looks like a better place to have put in your question as opposed to "Las Vegas." Also you can find a WHOLE bunch of information, particularly from Dan Druff if you look about.

FAB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS__

Lady at check in has told me you get 1 free movie per 24 hour period. "Use it or lose it." So you can't watch nothing for 2 days then watch 2 or 3 on the third day and expect them all to be free.

You should be able to get 4 nights in a row, 2 days off, then 4 more again. I've heard of several people doing this. I've never done it (I live in Vegas sooo).

Don't know about gym or pool use when you're not a guest. Pretty sure you'd need a room to have access to that stuff. If you really want that stuff, I'd try talking to a host.

Only way I know to keep your ADT high is to only play a lot whenever you use your card for anything. IE: Don't use your card for a discount at the coffee shop if you're not going to gamble that day. Either play a lot or don't play at all, if your goal is to keep your ADT high.

I'm not sure how ADT is effected and all that stuff when you're on a trip. There's a lot that TR does that's difficult to figure out. But remember ADT isn't the only thing they look at when determine how "good" of a player you are or what comps to send you. They also look at MDV (market daily value -- what kinda shit you get for free.....if you use room comps or not, etc.).

---

If I go to the Diamond Lounge does that count? Because they slide my card maybe that counts as a day at the casino. I've cashed a lot of the $5-$25 free plays and I feel if I didn't cash every single one then I might of been able to get bigger free plays lol. Like they know I'm on top of it all with all the handouts, so they know they got me hooked :)

When I use free plays on slots my tiers don't go up. If I play on tables will I get tiers or they'll just see it's free play and not comp?

Ok, so I just read from FAB that if I swipe it counts as a day, so the Diamond lounge counts with that too. I thought that.

I'm in Vegas now so I guess that's why I was on this thread. I didn't mean to put a post in the wrong area. I'm kind of new to forums.

I can delete this post if it's necessary.



So on the movies I didn't get it sorry. You can watch one before midnight and it could be playing through to the next day, but only depends on when you start it? So I could watch one at 11:30 p.m.. Ends at 1a.m. and I can boot up another movie w/o getting charged?

IIRC, the "day" is 4am to 4am for movies. Ask the front desk for verification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS__

IIRC, the "day" is 4am to 4am for movies. Ask the front desk for verification.

---

This is an interesting question.

I asked at the Diamond/7Stars check in at Caesars and was told specifically that the start of the "movie day" is midnight. But this might just be at Caesars. 4am might be the start of the "casino day" -- I'm not sure. The "casino day" is the 24-hour period when your play is registered.

I think at Rincon the casino day starts at 6am -- I could be wrong, it's been a while since I bothered with this type of info.

FAB has the right idea and I've done it too: if I arrive just before midnight I start a movie, then "save it", and watch it later during the 24-hour rental period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by str8upbrah

Ok, so I just read from FAB that if I swipe it counts as a day, so the Diamond lounge counts with that too. I thought that.

I'm in Vegas now so I guess that's why I was on this thread. I didn't mean to put a post in the wrong area. I'm kind of new to forums.

I can delete this post if it's necessary.



So on the movies I didn't get it sorry. You can watch one before midnight and it could be playing through to the next day, but only depends on when you start it? So I could watch one at 11:30 p.m.. Ends at 1a.m. and I can boot up another movie w/o getting charged?

---

Hi Str8:

No worries about deleting this thread. If Dan Druff the administrator/owner of the forum wants to move it, he will do so.

As Alan (former owner of the forum) states, the best way to see the maximum movies is to start and "bill it to the room" through the tv. For the Seven Stars media package the only date that matters is the time of the charge, they do not care when you watch it. Let's say you started the movie at 11:30 PM Friday. If you stop the movie, and exit out, you will see a notice stating that you can log on and see the rest of the movie up to 11:30 PM Saturday. Also when you log on to the menu later, you will see the movie you were watching has been "purchased." I believe that in-room movies consider a "day" to be midnight to midnight but you can ask at your particular hotel. This means that for all practical purposes I can see two movies on Saturday, the one I started Friday night and the one I start on Saturday.

BTW, Alan once had been "recorded" as playing a little bit of roulette in Ceasars Palace when he was not. That incorrect information soured his average daily theoretical in the CET universe which hurt his comps and took him a while to recover. So have your card swiped on days you do not play at your peril. That would include when you make sports bets and they ask to see your card when you are in the Seven Stars line as CET typically swipes your card and puts your players card number on your sports ticket as an additional record. This is fine if you lose your ticket and want to collect your bet, not so fine if you don't otherwise do any gambling that day like when I check out on a Sunday and make a few NFL bets on the way out.

FAB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FABismonte

This is fine if you lose your ticket and want to collect your bet, not so fine if you don't otherwise do any gambling that day like when I check out on a Sunday and make a few NFL bets on the way out.

FAB

---

Great tip. I always make a few sports plays in the morning on the way out. Didn't realize what little i may have earned by handing over my card (Platinum-not Seven *) probably hurt more than helped me.

Are you people for real? "I wanna free movie" and "if I use 10 bucks in free-play will it hurt my offers?" and "if I swipe into a Diamond Lounge without playing will it count against me?"

WTF? You people are willing to put tens of thousands thru the poker machines and craps tables, yet you're worrying to death about the small insignificant stuff? You're all doing the exact dance every casino wants you to do, and you all might as well just announce loudly that you don't win gambling. Trying to give the perception a few of you "know the system and work it to the bone" is worthless. Why not concentrate on learning how to win money consistently (ever hear of that concept?) instead of always basing your slick moves on losing. All this "I've got the CET system all figured out", so "they ain't gonna be taking advantage of this here sharpie no more, nosiree!" is nothing but pure nonsense. Win money and NONE of that baloney ever matters.

And please wise up. You would expect that on a gaming forum you'd see stimulating threads without the greenhorn factor being involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dannyj

Great tip. I always make a few sports plays in the morning on the way out. Didn't realize what little i may have earned by handing over my card (Platinum-not Seven *) probably hurt more than helped me.

---

A number of people have complained that their small recreational bets, like most make for high profile events like the Super Bowl, Kentucky Derby, or Final Four, damaged their ADT because of card swipes on days they otherwise did not play. The fact that sports and race bets count as "playing" doesn't register with many people.

So the rule is, if the bets are small and you aren't otherwise playing in the casino that day, do not let them swipe your card. And frankly, your wagers would have to be huge for a card swipe to be helpful.

So do not use your app and do not let them swipe your card unless you are making gigantic wagers or you are otherwise playing in the casino that day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Are you people for real? "I wanna free movie" and "if I use 10 bucks in free-play will it hurt my offers?" and "if I swipe into a Diamond Lounge without playing will it count against me?"

WTF? You people are willing to put tens of thousands thru the poker machines and craps tables, yet you're worrying to death about the small insignificant stuff? You're all doing the exact dance every casino wants you to do, and you all might as well just announce loudly that you don't win gambling. Trying to give the perception a few of you "know the system and work it to the bone" is worthless. Why not concentrate on learning how to win money consistently (ever hear of that concept?) instead of always basing your slick moves on losing. All this "I've got the CET system all figured out", so "they ain't gonna be taking advantage of this here sharpie no more, nosiree!" is nothing but pure nonsense. Win money and NONE of that baloney ever matters.

And please wise up. You would expect that on a gaming forum you'd see stimulating threads without the greenhorn factor being involved.

---

There is something to be gleaned from this post. The micro-management of the comp system has at least two "illusion factors" the casino is imposing on people working the system. First, this is the "losing while winning" angle. Getting incremental stuff back while actually losing is very similar to "partial wins" on slot machines that reward amounts less than the actual bets. The feedback, bells and whistles, and machine responses are the same on the machines as if you had actually won. Second, working the system creates an "illusion of control" that may or may not be exist for the individuals involved. Working the system by micro-management serves to foster a feeling of being in control and managing something, when the reality may be that the people doing so are, in some greater, sense, behaviorally locked into patterns that are expensive and self-defeating. But the whole parallel economy of the comp system obscures how out-of-control people really are.

Yes, you should watch the pennies. Just as you should watch the dollars.

Not to watch the pennies is like throwing money away. I think only Rob Singer has boasted about throwing dollar bills on the ground. Too bad I wasn't walking behind him to pick them up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FABismonte

Alan once had been "recorded" as playing a little bit of roulette in Ceasars Palace when he was not. That incorrect information soured his average daily theoretical in the CET universe which hurt his comps and took him a while to recover.
FAB

---

I wasn't even in Las Vegas that weekend. Somehow my account was "credited" with something like $40 of play at roulette. It killed my offers for about six months and even my host could not intervene.

When I saw a big drop in my offers I asked my host what happened? And that's how I learned about the $40 of "play" at roulette. There was no hotel stay, of course, since I wasn't even in Vegas that weekend. My host tried to get it fixed but was told that once it's in the computer it can't be changed... and it wasn't. I was furious but there was absolutely nothing I could do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

So the rule is, if the bets are small and you aren't otherwise playing in the casino that day, do not let them swipe your card. And frankly, your wagers would have to be huge for a card swipe to be helpful.

So do not use your app and do not let them swipe your card unless you are making gigantic wagers or you are otherwise playing in the casino that day.

---

Good info, thanks Red.

I'm curious: with CET how many tier points or reward credits do you get for sports bets? I think in the poker room isn't it something like $1 per hour in RCs but I don't know what the tier points are?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'm curious: with CET how many tier points or reward credits do you get for sports bets? I think in the poker room isn't it something like $1 per hour in RCs but I don't know what the tier points are?

---

I have never been given a straight answer for how many tier points or RC's I earn when sports betting. I think the last answer I got was something vague like "not much, but every little bit helps". It didn't bother me because I realize I generally only bet about a hundred bucks a day on sports wagers when in Nevada. I now know that I definitely am not going to swipe my card on the morning I leave anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Yes, you should watch the pennies. Just as you should watch the dollars.

Not to watch the pennies is like throwing money away. I think only Rob Singer has boasted about throwing dollar bills on the ground. Too bad I wasn't walking behind him to pick them up.

---

You think his disregard for money is what put him deep in the hole and eventually had him filing for bankruptcy? I do feel for his wife, having to watch him "Rambling and Gambling" around Nevada while running the family into deep debt and unable to get him to stop until the inevitable happened.

What Rob didn't tell us is what his regular income was when he lost $250,000 gambling as an "AP." If he was making less than $100,000 a year (which he probably was given when this happened and the corporate job he had) then he was really betting over his head. If on the other hand he was making $200,000 a year then losing $250,000 over a period of time gambling (we don't know what that period was, do we?) then it might not be unusual.

Look, I know business people who lose $100,000 per weekend and don't even wince because they earn so much money. I'm not one of them, however.

So many times.....I lost about $250k from 1990-1996 strictly playing as an AP. My salary probably averaged $175k/year for those 7 years, the last 5 as a VP. And don't forget--I've had something unique among gamblers: it's called a WIFE in a successful marriage, and she averaged around $70k/year back then. So losing around $45k/year wasn't a big deal, but I would have likely lost a lot more had I not been out of the country 75% of the time.

Imagine that....a gambler with one long successful marriage (and the jealous will claim it was because I was gone so often, but sorry Charlie, she regularly took trips to visit me around the globe), and a gambler who had a respectable job and who knew enough to secure his family's retirement AND prepare to be a professional gambler.

Wow! Whooda thunk!?

And james, try as you may, but you never tell the story right or even the same way twice. That's why you're so goofy. 1996=our BK year. While I was an AP at the time, gambling losses had little to do with the problem. I know you just can't connect the "being an AP" dots to 1996--and that my professional gambling years were from 2000-2009--but at least try not to look the fool.

And please....wise up!

Rob, you are so lucky she stuck with you. So lucky.

I have some single female friends... but I'd never recommend you.

I love you, brother... but there's a limit to brotherly love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

So many times.....I lost about $250k from 1990-1996 strictly playing as an AP. My salary probably averaged $175k/year for those 7 years, the last 5 as a VP. And don't forget--I've had something unique among gamblers: it's called a WIFE in a successful marriage, and she averaged around $70k/year back then. So losing around $45k/year wasn't a big deal, but I would have likely lost a lot more had I not been out of the country 75% of the time.

Imagine that....a gambler with one long successful marriage (and the jealous will claim it was because I was gone so often, but sorry Charlie, she regularly took trips to visit me around the globe), and a gambler who had a respectable job and who knew enough to secure his family's retirement AND prepare to be a professional gambler.

Wow! Whooda thunk!?

And james, try as you may, but you never tell the story right or even the same way twice. That's why you're so goofy. 1996=our BK year. While I was an AP at the time, gambling losses had little to do with the problem. I know you just can't connect the "being an AP" dots to 1996--and that my professional gambling years were from 2000-2009--but at least try not to look the fool.

And please....wise up!

---

You'd need waders a mile high to walk through all this bullshit! Of course, geniuses like Blackhole never dispute the shit Singer types out.

Professional Gambler my ass! Lucky Ploppy if anything. And even that's is debatable.

Str8upbrah, don't listen to a thing from this idiot Singer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dannyj

I have never been given a straight answer for how many tier points or RC's I earn when sports betting. I think the last answer I got was something vague like "not much, but every little bit helps". It didn't bother me because I realize I generally only bet about a hundred bucks a day on sports wagers when in Nevada. I now know that I definitely am not going to swipe my card on the morning I leave anymore.

---

I actually did a survey quite a few years ago of some CET properties regarding this and got wildly different replies. It was ridiculous. I'll repeat my tale of "no hamburger for you" tomorrow or the next day. Comps were just as erratic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Rob, you are so lucky she stuck with you. So lucky.

I have some single female friends... but I'd never recommend you.

I love you, brother... but there's a limit to brotherly love.

---

It's usually the family that suffers the most. To the gambler it's "no big deal". He "only" lost $45K a year, plus a property deal that went sideways on him, plus credit card debt. No big deal. He was lucky his wife hung in there. She must have had an exit plan though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

So many times.....I lost about $250k from 1990-1996 strictly playing as an AP. My salary probably averaged $175k/year for those 7 years, the last 5 as a VP. And don't forget--I've had something unique among gamblers: it's called a WIFE in a successful marriage, and she averaged around $70k/year back then. So losing around $45k/year wasn't a big deal, but I would have likely lost a lot more had I not been out of the country 75% of the time.

Imagine that....a gambler with one long successful marriage (and the jealous will claim it was because I was gone so often, but sorry Charlie, she regularly took trips to visit me around the globe), and a gambler who had a respectable job and who knew enough to secure his family's retirement AND prepare to be a professional gambler.

Wow! Whooda thunk!?

And james, try as you may, but you never tell the story right or even the same way twice. That's why you're so goofy. 1996=our BK year. While I was an AP at the time, gambling losses had little to do with the problem. I know you just can't connect the "being an AP" dots to 1996--and that my professional gambling years were from 2000-2009--but at least try not to look the fool.

And please....wise up!

---

I do commend your wife for hanging in there. You were gone 75 percent of the time and the 25 percent you were home you were busy burning through $45K a year gambling. Plus your savvy real estate deals and the credit card debt. Must have been hell on her watching the implosion.

The dots are fairly easy to connect, gambling leading to bankruptcy. It's an old story and usually not a particularly happy one.

I get the wise up, I will never treat my family that badly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

So many times.....I lost about $250k from 1990-1996 strictly playing as an AP. My salary probably averaged $175k/year for those 7 years, the last 5 as a VP. And don't forget--I've had something unique among gamblers: it's called a WIFE in a successful marriage, and she averaged around $70k/year back then. So losing around $45k/year wasn't a big deal, but I would have likely lost a lot more had I not been out of the country 75% of the time.

Imagine that....a gambler with one long successful marriage (and the jealous will claim it was because I was gone so often, but sorry Charlie, she regularly took trips to visit me around the globe), and a gambler who had a respectable job and who knew enough to secure his family's retirement AND prepare to be a professional gambler.

Wow! Whooda thunk!?

And james, try as you may, but you never tell the story right or even the same way twice. That's why you're so goofy. 1996=our BK year. While I was an AP at the time, gambling losses had little to do with the problem. I know you just can't connect the "being an AP" dots to 1996--and that my professional gambling years were from 2000-2009--but at least try not to look the fool.

And please....wise up!

---

Wow.....you shouldn't offer anyone advice. Ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

What Rob didn't tell us is what his regular income was when he lost $250,000 gambling as an "AP." If he was making less than $100,000 a year (which he probably was given when this happened and the corporate job he had) then he was really betting over his head. If on the other hand he was making $200,000 a year then losing $250,000 over a period of time gambling (we don't know what that period was, do we?) then it might not be unusual.

Look, I know business people who lose $100,000 per weekend and don't even wince because they earn so much money. I'm not one of them, however.

---

Alan, you understand the saying it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. There were more debits than credits against him and he filed BK to get out from underneath debt. I doubt if the creditors cared how much he was making yearly.

I think there is a lesson to be gained from this in how gambling can get out of control and it's consequences.

I don't think you have to actually be negative to file for Chapter 11 or Chapter 13.

Plus someone who files for bankruptcy protection could have a fortune locked away in retirement funds which cannot be touched with a bankruptcy -- and that's 100% legal. And there are bankruptcy laws which shelter all kinds of other assets including your house.

OJ Simpson, for example, was able to keep his $25,000 a month pension despite the lawsuits against him in the Ron Goldman civil case.

I am sure Rob would rather not have lost money playing VP. But remember, his position is that he lost that money because he played a conventional AP strategy -- not because he played with his "Singer system."

Now, if he filed BK while using his Singer System then I think everyone can pound on him. But the guy filed BK and lost at VP playing conventional strategy. And that doesn't say much about conventional strategy, does it? Nor does it say much for all of those schemes to double dip casino offers and comps, does it?

Now Rob is saying don't play conventional strategy, ignore the AP comp hunt, and you'll be fine. And what do you know? He hasn't filed for bankruptcy again... has he?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't think you have to actually be negative to file for Chapter 11 or Chapter 13.

Plus someone who files for bankruptcy protection could have a fortune locked away in retirement funds which cannot be touched with a bankruptcy -- and that's 100% legal. And there are bankruptcy laws which shelter all kinds of other assets including your house.

OJ Simpson, for example, was able to keep his $25,000 a month pension despite the lawsuits against him in the Ron Goldman civil case.

I am sure Rob would rather not have lost money playing VP. But remember, his position is that he lost that money because he played a conventional AP strategy -- not because he played with his "Singer system."

Now, if he filed BK while using his Singer System then I think everyone can pound on him. But the guy filed BK and lost at VP playing conventional strategy. And that doesn't say much about conventional strategy, does it? Nor does it say much for all of those schemes to double dip casino offers and comps, does it?

Now Rob is saying don't play conventional strategy, ignore the AP comp hunt, and you'll be fine. And what do you know? He hasn't filed for bankruptcy again... has he?

---

Oh yeah, we'll just totally take his word for it. Even though none of it makes sense, we'll just blindly listen to and believe what he says. Although math, logic, and just pure common sense says otherwise.......LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't think you have to actually be negative to file for Chapter 11 or Chapter 13.

Plus someone who files for bankruptcy protection could have a fortune locked away in retirement funds which cannot be touched with a bankruptcy -- and that's 100% legal. And there are bankruptcy laws which shelter all kinds of other assets including your house.

OJ Simpson, for example, was able to keep his $25,000 a month pension despite the lawsuits against him in the Ron Goldman civil case.

I am sure Rob would rather not have lost money playing VP. But remember, his position is that he lost that money because he played a conventional AP strategy -- not because he played with his "Singer system."

Now, if he filed BK while using his Singer System then I think everyone can pound on him. But the guy filed BK and lost at VP playing conventional strategy. And that doesn't say much about conventional strategy, does it? Nor does it say much for all of those schemes to double dip casino offers and comps, does it?

Now Rob is saying don't play conventional strategy, ignore the AP comp hunt, and you'll be fine. And what do you know? He hasn't filed for bankruptcy again... has he?

---

AP, conventional strategy, comps, offers? This was addictive behavior, nothing more, nothing less. He was caught in the trap of the next hit was going to start his comeback, except the next hit never came. The only reason his losses were limited to $250K, was because he was out of the country 75 percent of the time. It also gives you a feel for what kind of husband and father he was, when he was home he was dedicated to VP, essentially blowing his wife's yearly take home pay on gambling.

Please don't try to pretty this up, it is a great cautionary tale for someone new to gambling that doesn't realize the potential harm that can come from it and the thinking that a "strategy" can lead to a positive outcome. The only strategy that works 100 percent of the time is to stay out of the casinos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan

But the guy filed BK and lost at VP playing conventional strategy. And that doesn't say much about conventional strategy, does it? Nor does it say much for all of those schemes to double dip casino offers and comps, does it?

---

You claim to use conventional strategy, yet you hold 3 to a royal over a high pair in 8/5 BP. Do you see the problem with your (above) logic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Yes, you should watch the pennies. Just as you should watch the dollars.

Not to watch the pennies is like throwing money away. I think only Rob Singer has boasted about throwing dollar bills on the ground. Too bad I wasn't walking behind him to pick them up.

---

It's a nice diversion for those hopelessly overly addicted to slot club rope-'em-in tactics, but the truth remains....IF YOU ARE A PERENNIAL CASINO LOSER, THEN YOU WILL MOPE & WHINE & GROAN ABOUT ALL THE "INJUSTICES OF SOCIETY" WHENEVER YOU COME UP ON THE SHORT END OF THE DEAL--WHETHER IT BE BY A PENNY, A DOLLAR, OR MORE--EVERY SINGLE TIME; IF YOU ARE A PERENNIAL WINNER AT CASINO GAMBLING, NONE OF THAT STUFF EVER, EVER MATTERS, SINCE WHEN ONE OF THESE "INJUSTICES" OCCURS YOU SIMPLY SAY TO YOURSELF "I'VE WON MONEY AND I COULD HAVE LOST, SO I WILL NEVER, EVER LET THESE ANNOYANCES BOTHER ME AGAIN".

THAT is the difference, Alan & friends. You like constantly going thru life's hassles? Just keep operating in the same way. Stay slaves to slot clubs and card status instead of becoming serious students of gambling. Let casino hosts keep controlling you by artificially keep making you believe they're your "best friends" at your "home away from home". Keep running to those casino ATM's when you run out of money gambling---yes...that next big hit is "just around the corner!". Keep giving your money away to those floor people after hitting signers--heck, you can just keep struggling with trying to save every penny from every OTHER situation in life instead! And by ALL means, do sign up for casino credit. It makes a real nice pairing and really solidifies your "relationship" with that oh-so-special casino host.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS__

You claim to use conventional strategy, yet you hold 3 to a royal over a high pair in 8/5 BP. Do you see the problem with your (above) logic?

---

Yes, I hold three to the royal over a high pair in 8/5 Bonus. And I will do it every single time except when the high pair is AA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

that next big hit is "just around the corner!"

---

Ummm.... yes it is. Or else, why bother playing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Yes, I hold three to the royal over a high pair in 8/5 Bonus. And I will do it every single time except when the high pair is AA.

---

And there-in lies the main reason why casinos win out over players--recreational, professional, or "AP's"--most or all of the time. They understand that players will play exactly as they expect them to play....without goals or the ability to just get up and leave at the time of their choice.

When I held 3-to-the-royal over trip Q's in 8/5 BP, I did so with the knowledge that if quad Q's were hit, it WOULD NOT have allowed me to go down in denomination or to hit any mini-win goal. So the only obvious hold was the three royal cards--and it paid off big time, to the chagrin of SO MANY so-called "experts" when they saw it and read about it. But had I been playing ANY advanced BP game where the payout was at least 250 for 4 Q's, I would have easily held the trip Q's since quad Q's would have easily attained a goal.

It is not that hard to understand. Naturally, most players and esp. the AP crowd would simply have held QQQ since they like the idea of possibly hitting a quad along with the ability to play a little longer. It fits right in with the addictive qualities of casino play. And for the vast majority of poker machine addicts, hitting four Q's is the same as adding more points onto their sacred slot club cards, which in every case for these sad people spells L-O-S-E-R....and it spells it big time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Ummm.... yes it is. Or else, why bother playing?

---

Because only problem gamblers rush to cash a check and/or to the ATM's when they run out of money. It is EXACTLY the kind of behavior casinos count on, and anyone who does such a thing is not only a weak player--they lack the intelligence about what it truly takes to consistently profit at casinos. These people will, of course, shout out denial after denial on this subject, since it paints them with stooge paint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

And there-in lies the main reason why casinos win out over players--recreational, professional, or "AP's"--most or all of the time. They understand that players will play exactly as they expect them to play....without goals or the ability to just get up and leave at the time of their choice.

When I held 3-to-the-royal over trip Q's in 8/5 BP, I did so with the knowledge that if quad Q's were hit, it WOULD NOT have allowed me to go down in denomination or to hit any mini-win goal. So the only obvious hold was the three royal cards--and it paid off big time, to the chagrin of SO MANY so-called "experts" when they saw it and read about it. But had I been playing ANY advanced BP game where the payout was at least 250 for 4 Q's, I would have easily held the trip Q's since quad Q's would have easily attained a goal.

It is not that hard to understand. Naturally, most players and esp. the AP crowd would simply have held QQQ since they like the idea of possibly hitting a quad along with the ability to play a little longer. It fits right in with the addictive qualities of casino play. And for the vast majority of poker machine addicts, hitting four Q's is the same as adding more points onto their sacred slot club cards, which in every case for these sad people spells L-O-S-E-R....and it spells it big time.

---

Yep, you did EXACTLY WHAT THE CASINO WANTS. Make a sub optimal play. Well, SUPPOSEDLY you did. I think it's just another bullshit story.

I questioned Rob about not holding the QQQ and drawing to the royal. I thought that was crazy. I would never sacrifice three of a kind for a royal draw.

Now two points:

1. Rob told me that was a one of a kind event in his life. He said the draw was presented to him once and it never happened again. I personally have never had trips with three to a royal.

2. Rob was in such a deep, deep, deep friggin hole that I am guessing he either had to hit that royal or he was going to take a dive off the top of the Stratosphere.

Only ONCE in my life did I use a Rob Singer special play and I wrote about this before. I was in a deep, deep hole (well, it wasn't that deep, but it was a hole of about 2K), when I was dealt a full house with trip aces playing 8/5 Bonus. Conventional strategy is to hold the full house, but I held the three aces and got the fourth ace for $2,000. NOW THAT WAS NOT AN OFFICIAL ROB SINGER SPECIAL PLAY. Rob says to hold the full house with 8/5 Bonus, but to hold the three aces with 7/5 Bonus. And Bob Dancer says to hold the three aces in 6/5 Bonus. So I guess that was a MENDELSON SPECIAL PLAY. LOL

See Special Play #13 here for the discussion about QQQ and three to the royal: http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

Personally, I don't find Rob's sub-optimal deviations as the problem. People do sup-optimal shit every day. It's his insistence that he has somehow solved the game of video poker better than people who know the math inside-out, and the idea that his personal anecdotal experience is somehow a substitute for mathematical analysis. That stuff is in the realm of claiming to have super powers, and is the modus operandi of most folks who claim paranormal abilities. Rob seems aware of his arguments' absurdities and shortcomings, however, as he never actually presents any tally of hands played or royals hit or ratios or anything that would make it obvious he's claiming stuff that's highly unlikely. He sticks with the anecdotal, kind of like Smilin' Bob with Enzyte. No data, no proof, just a big smile, a lot of implying, and words of wisdom aplenty for the non-believers.

No matter how you say it or in how many words you keep putting it red, you keep falling short of whatever mark you're shooting for. ...and with quite the ramble this time.

You seem to want to believe that AP's don't ever need to provide proof of their "win claims" because "university math professors" would do it for them if they were summoned. Now do tell--is there any more anecdotal evidence than that? One statement serves all....blanket coverage, feel-good/self-confidence building assertion. You name it. Except it excludes one giant admission: I'm one of those "math people" you wet-dream about, with actual degrees unlike most or all of the self-made AP clowns who troll the forums, and I didn't win as an "AP". So when I explain how I've consistently won thru the years with an alternative method, instead of trying to understand it or actually trying it, you claim those sacred "math people" would denounce it because they don't get it.

Do you as yet see the irony in your mythology? And please....stop with the corny responses. For those of us who know how to write, it's awkward watching you struggle with words as you try to construct something clever.

If you're a "math person", Rob, why don't you show us the math behind your strategy?

What will happen?


A) Rob makes fun of me or other APs for no reason.
B) Rob pretends to present some sort of math. IE: "I won $100k/year for 10 years. 100,000x10 = $1M."
C) Tries to explain his strategy and you gotta put yourself into more positions to let luck help you win big.
D) No response from Rob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS__

If you're a "math person", Rob, why don't you show us the math behind your strategy?

What will happen?


A) Rob makes fun of me or other APs for no reason.
B) Rob pretends to present some sort of math. IE: "I won $100k/year for 10 years. 100,000x10 = $1M."
C) Tries to explain his strategy and you gotta put yourself into more positions to let luck help you win big.
D) No response from Rob.

---

E) All of the above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No matter how you say it or in how many words you keep putting it red, you keep falling short of whatever mark you're shooting for. ...and with quite the ramble this time.

You seem to want to believe that AP's don't ever need to provide proof of their "win claims" because "university math professors" would do it for them if they were summoned. Now do tell--is there any more anecdotal evidence than that? One statement serves all....blanket coverage, feel-good/self-confidence building assertion. You name it. Except it excludes one giant admission: I'm one of those "math people" you wet-dream about, with actual degrees unlike most or all of the self-made AP clowns who troll the forums, and I didn't win as an "AP". So when I explain how I've consistently won thru the years with an alternative method, instead of trying to understand it or actually trying it, you claim those sacred "math people" would denounce it because they don't get it.

Do you as yet see the irony in your mythology? And please....stop with the corny responses. For those of us who know how to write, it's awkward watching you struggle with words as you try to construct something clever.

---

Rob, feel free to dislike what I write as much as you want. It's a free country. Hell, I don't like half of what I write. But you really should learn to read a little bit.

I never mentioned "APs" at all. Not once. What the hell are you talking about? Math professors aren't APs. You do realize that, don't you? Maybe not. Let's get that straight, shall we? People with doctorates in math aren't all APs. Almost none of them are.

Learn to read, my friend. It's one thing to be math deficient. It's another to struggle to read.