Question for Robert Dietz

Robert Dietz I've told you that I believe who you say you are. I told you Tony has looked at the fifty to seventy photo copied pages you sent. I told you Tony said the pages include articles written by Robert Dietz and some of the pages list sports contest winners that include Robert Dietz.

But you keep pushing for me to get my hands on this envelope and its contents. WHY?

What am I missing? What is it I'm supposed to see? I told you from the start that I do not understand sports betting.

Why is it so urgent I have that envelope in my hands? Is it laced with anthrax?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Robert Dietz I've told you that I believe who you say you are. I told you Tony has looked at the fifty to seventy photo copied pages you sent. I told you Tony said the pages include articles written by Robert Dietz and some of the pages list sports contest winners that include Robert Dietz.

But you keep pushing for me to get my hands on this envelope and its contents. WHY?

What am I missing? What is it I'm supposed to see? I told you from the start that I do not understand sports betting.

Why is it so urgent I have that envelope in my hands? Is it laced with anthrax?

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First of all, I was and am fine with sending it off to Dan. That was clear.

Second, actually reading the stuff as opposed to posting bits and pieces -- the contents as a whole comprise a narrative that the individual little bylines aren't going to do justice. The entirety is certainly more telling than the few byline pages.

Third, I wrote little intros to each bit so somebody without a sports background would have a clue regarding the contents.

And finally, I make it a point of asking for "The Anthrax Room" when staying at the Extended Stay across from the Rio. That's where the dudes whipped up anthrax and headed for the tunnels under Caesars Palace a few years back. Management doesn't know quite what to say when I ask for it. Hell, if you're going to gamble in Las Vegas, you may as well gamble.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Robert Dietz I've told you that I believe who you say you are. I told you Tony has looked at the fifty to seventy photo copied pages you sent. I told you Tony said the pages include articles written by Robert Dietz and some of the pages list sports contest winners that include Robert Dietz.

But you keep pushing for me to get my hands on this envelope and its contents. WHY?

What am I missing? What is it I'm supposed to see? I told you from the start that I do not understand sports betting.

Why is it so urgent I have that envelope in my hands? Is it laced with anthrax?

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First of all, I was and am fine with sending it off to Dan. That was clear.

Second, actually reading the stuff as opposed to posting bits and pieces -- the contents as a whole comprise a narrative that the individual little bylines aren't going to do justice. The entirety is certainly more telling than the few byline pages.

Third, I wrote little intros to each bit so somebody without a sports background would have a clue regarding the contents.

And finally, I make it a point of asking for "The Anthrax Room" when staying at the Extended Stay across from the Rio. That's where the dudes whipped up anthrax and headed for the tunnels under Caesars Palace a few years back. Management doesn't know quite what to say when I ask for it. Hell, if you're going to gamble in Las Vegas, you may as well gamble.

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I take it from the title of this thread that this is the place to ask Robert Dietz questions. Mr. Dietz, do you think Jerry Logan and aceshii will show up at the G2E forum with Rob Singer?

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Originally Posted by redietz

the contents as a whole comprise a narrative

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What is the narrative?

The narrative, coach, is that I've been doing this (and well) since 1980. And that I haven't ever exaggerated or lied regarding abilities or results. And that I haven't been afraid to take on certain people (Penn State President Graham Spanier and Carl Sagan) when I thought they were wrong about something.

Thanks for asking.

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Originally Posted by redietz

The narrative, coach, is that I've been doing this (and well) since 1980.

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Doing what?

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Originally Posted by redietz

haven't been afraid to take on certain people (Penn State President Graham Spanier and Carl Sagan) when I thought they were wrong about something.

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How so, and so what?

We all now know you've authored articles and won contests. I told you from the start I knew nothing about sports. I also told you from the start I didn't want to read pages and pages. WHY DID YOU SEND IT?

There is no copyright on your own narrative redietz. Wrote that here.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

We all now know you've authored articles and won contests. I told you from the start I knew nothing about sports. I also told you from the start I didn't want to read pages and pages. WHY DID YOU SEND IT?

There is no copyright on your own narrative redietz. Wrote that here.

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WHY DID YOU GIVE HIM YOUR ADDRESS?.....typing in caps is cool...I feel like a killer :cool:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

WHY DID YOU SEND IT?.

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Because you gave him your mailing address.

I didn't know he was sending 50-70 pages of sports articles and a "narrative."

There are two sides to every story, guys.

I know why you're angry at me: you think I am supposed to come on this forum and blast away at Rob Singer. Well, I do. But I don't need to see Robert Dietz's articles to know when Singer is wrong about what he posts.

Now Robert Dietz all this time could have posted his own "narrative" as well as a list of the articles and publications he wrote articles in -- and NONE of that would have been a violation of any copyright. He also could have take a photo of his name and bylines and that would not violate any copyright. You guys might know gambling, but I know the copyright laws because it's my business to know them.

Robert Dietz is becoming the drama queen here, a real prima dona, creating an issue over a dispute with someone (Rob Singer) who should just be ignored and I've posted that here over and over again -- ignore him.

No, he can't ignore him. He has to make a federal case out of it sending 70 pages of photo copied articles and putting a burden and obligation on me to do his work for him. Well to quote Biloxi Bill I'm no errand boy. And I wasn't going to change my vacation plans or ask Tony to change his plans just because Robert Dietz sent me a big fat stuffed envelope with special tape because it was so big.

Frankly I've had it with all of you children. Grow up, starting with Robert Dietz. You want to make war with Singer -- go ahead, make war. Leave me out of it. I told you to ignore him over and over again in those private messages but you insisted you had to send the package.

In fact, and I will say it again, that email about sending your package was sent to me and Dan. Dan did not respond to you. I don't think he wanted to be bothered. I made the mistake of being a nice guy and responding. Yeah, I responded and what a mistake it was.

That's it. Over. And I mean it's over.

I'm telling Tony to trash your package. You wasted enough of my time, and you're not going to waste a moment more.

The guy sent you info to review based upon his belief that you cared, could be objective, and would accurately report your findings to the forum.

In response, you piss on him and his papers.

A Golden Shower might be fun with a nubile bimbo, but not in this context.

The most glaring info in thus entire fiasco is, if Alan can be sent this mysterious info to post, THEN WHY COULDN'T/DIDN'T redietz POST IT HERE HIMSELF?? It makes no sense. And amazingly, we STILL have no use as to WTF red is claiming his accolades are it were, 30 years ago (as if that matters in 2017).

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I didn't know he was sending 50-70 pages of sports articles...a big fat stuffed envelope with special tape because it was so big.

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Whatever else he's trying to prove, we have proof enough right there that he's a flake.

Just imagine him squirreled away for days in "his office" (in somebody else's house), making dozens of copies, writing his little blurbs, organizing all the pages, and wrapping that crap up like some anal mental patient to ship it...several days after the intended recipient asked him not to do it.

Too funny...ask Tony to take a photo of the ditz dumpster diving after his precious package.

The confederacy of dunces strikes again.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The confederacy of dunces strikes again.

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How's that dice problem experiment working out, hobo?

You must be up to 100 pages of tally marks by now.

Ship 'em off to Alan (make sure you wrap and rewrap and rewrap and rewrap the package) as proof that you're nuts.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by redietz

The narrative, coach, is that I've been doing this (and well) since 1980.

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Doing what?

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Originally Posted by redietz

haven't been afraid to take on certain people (Penn State President Graham Spanier and Carl Sagan) when I thought they were wrong about something.

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How so, and so what?

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Uh oh, here`s the question man looking for answers again...probably walking around his apartment wearing his junior g-man badge with a pair of woman`s underwear too :)

Is your life really that boring and unfulfilled Betty?.....Forget the fact that you sound like a little girl every time you type something.....total loser

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

wearing his junior g-man badge with a pair of woman`s underwear

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You can always tell what Bisexual Bill is fantasizing about.

The Coach likes interrogating and playing Q&A.....so do I :)

1. What sport do you coach?
2. Where do you coach?
3. What organization? (i.e.HS, college, little league, Pop Warner,etc.)
4. What is your coaching philosophy?
5. How many offensive lineman have you attempted to fondle?

Now please answer truthfully and provide proof for each of your claims or else I will follow you around attempting to ridicule you by asking more dumb questions....Hey, just like you do Coach!! :)

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

How many offensive lineman have you attempted to fondle?

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You can always tell what Bisexual Bill is fantasizing about.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The confederacy of dunces strikes again.

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How's that dice problem experiment working out, hobo?

You must be up to 100 pages of tally marks by now.

Ship 'em off to Alan (make sure you wrap and rewrap and rewrap and rewrap the package) as proof that you're nuts.

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How's trying to beat 98% games working out for you? To embarrassed to post your results?

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Originally Posted by redietz

The narrative, coach, is that I've been doing this (and well) since 1980. And that I haven't ever exaggerated or lied regarding abilities or results. And that I haven't been afraid to take on certain people (Penn State President Graham Spanier and Carl Sagan) when I thought they were wrong about something.

Thanks for asking.

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So we're back to the beginning again. Post the stuff, or carry the phony label with you and accept it. Or, you COULD go whining to your boy-toy on the "west coast" whom you met at the bus station.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

How's trying to beat 98% games working out for you?

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I'm not playing or trying to beat any 98% games, I'm saving that to teach you a lesson.

You must still be sore from me backing you down.

You just spent weeks driving from one shithole to the next, but back then you were too busy "working" to get to Vegas for a weekend?

Too busy or too broke? I forget, which was it?

He's too broke coach, and there's probably an arrest warrant out for him in Nevada anyway. Why else would such a "successful, vulturing ap" leave the juicy "$75/hr. plays" in Nevada for the slums of Montana?

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

He's too broke coach, and there's probably an arrest warrant out for him in Nevada anyway. Why else would such a "successful, vulturing ap" leave the juicy "$75/hr. plays" in Nevada for the slums of Montana?

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$140 an hour in the slums of Montana, Robbie Sue. Now get your head out of coach betty's ass cause it's his turn to stick his head in your ass.

And no warrants in Nevada like you have in Arizona. If there were still debtor's prisons you would be doing life.

We want a picture of you, Jerry Logan, and aceshii at the G2E forum. Or just 3 pictures of you will work since you are all three.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

How's trying to beat 98% games working out for you?

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I'm not playing or trying to beat any 98% games, I'm saving that to teach you a lesson.

You must still be sore from me backing you down.

You just spent weeks driving from one shithole to the next, but back then you were too busy "working" to get to Vegas for a weekend?

Too busy or too broke? I forget, which was it?

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I didn't back down from jackshit. You're the one that refused to take the bet, Betty, you yellow belllied slug.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

You're the one that refused to take the bet

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I took the bet, then you insisted that it had to be played out in Montana, because you said you were too broke to spend a weekend in Vegas.

It's pretty amusing seeing Betty act like some high roller on a custodians salary...his biggest gambling score to date is getting comped at Noodle World in one of those flea bag hotels he stoops at in Atlantic City :)

Anyone who claims to be successful at any game runs into this issue when trying to "prove" it.

A blow hard on another board once claimed he consistantly won at craps using a John Patrick system(on patricks board)...and to prove it he invited someone that questioned him the ability to come down to vegas and watch him one day. The "watch me" scenario is stupid. How can someone watch someone one day and extrapolate it to 365 days or 1000 days. Unless I am with the dude daily for a few hundred days, I have no clue if his claims are true.

Same with sports betting. Over a period of 30 years, a monkey throwing darts can have a couple 3 month stretches that are very good. The real meat of the facts come when you know what happens outside those few 3 month bonanza periods.

Did redietz have some good periods in sports betting? I dont doubt that. Did he win some contests....i believe that as well. But what about the losses during down times, and how long did those down times last....There are not glowing articles about the down times.

Look at Chris Moneymaker....he won 2.5 million in 2003 in the Main Event. Since then he made 1 million cumulative in tournaments for 14 years since. Just look at his gambling(not his celebrity appearance fees and such)......Just for his gambling , he is "winning" in tournaments about 72k a year. If you take out the entry fees...that usually range from 5k to 10k........lets say he spends 40k a year in entry fees...that takes him down to 32k a year net earnings. And if you just looked at him as john doe..a gambler......who had to pay his own expenses....then traveling and hotel would eat up most of his winnings after entry fees and taxes.

But, I am sure he can produce articles and such of the times he won...and all the accolades...he can produce. But if you look strictly at his tourament gambling winnings, and take out entry fees and expenses.....he has made zero money(since the main event win). Not that impressive. Now lucky for him he can hookup with a online poker site and get money, and they may pay his entry fees or pay him to wear their logo at the tables, ...but that has nothing to do with the gambling aspect. Without the celebrity perks...as a tournament player he is living at the poverty level with the income generated.

So what about redietz......I am sure he can show proof of articles and accolades....so what. I say the same about moneymaker as far as the pure gambling side of things.

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Originally Posted by LarryS

Anyone who claims to be successful at any game runs into this issue when trying to "prove" it.

A blow hard on another board once claimed he consistantly won at craps using a John Patrick system(on patricks board)...and to prove it he invited someone that questioned him the ability to come down to vegas and watch him one day. The "watch me" scenario is stupid. How can someone watch someone one day and extrapolate it to 365 days or 1000 days. Unless I am with the dude daily for a few hundred days, I have no clue if his claims are true.

Same with sports betting. Over a period of 30 years, a monkey throwing darts can have a couple 3 month stretches that are very good. The real meat of the facts come when you know what happens outside those few 3 month bonanza periods.

Did redietz have some good periods in sports betting? I dont doubt that. Did he win some contests....i believe that as well. But what about the losses during down times, and how long did those down times last....There are not glowing articles about the down times.

Look at Chris Moneymaker....he won 2.5 million in 2003 in the Main Event. Since then he made 1 million cumulative in tournaments for 14 years since. Just look at his gambling(not his celebrity appearance fees and such)......Just for his gambling , he is "winning" in tournaments about 72k a year. If you take out the entry fees...that usually range from 5k to 10k........lets say he spends 40k a year in entry fees...that takes him down to 32k a year net earnings. And if you just looked at him as john doe..a gambler......who had to pay his own expenses....then traveling and hotel would eat up most of his winnings after entry fees and taxes.

But, I am sure he can produce articles and such of the times he won...and all the accolades...he can produce. But if you look strictly at his tourament gambling winnings, and take out entry fees and expenses.....he has made zero money(since the main event win). Not that impressive. Now lucky for him he can hookup with a online poker site and get money, and they may pay his entry fees or pay him to wear their logo at the tables, ...but that has nothing to do with the gambling aspect. Without the celebrity perks...as a tournament player he is living at the poverty level with the income generated.

So what about redietz......I am sure he can show proof of articles and accolades....so what. I say the same about moneymaker as far as the pure gambling side of things.

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But all the trolls keep demanding proof. If you put up any evidence you get a response like larry put up here. They're not going to believe you no matter what you do. At least they are going to act that way. It is an exercise in futility to attempt to prove any claims. And it might take divulging trade secrets to do so. So just make the claims if you feel like it and tell them to go to hell if they want proof. If they don't believe you who cares? I know I certainly don't care if they believe me or not.

Right now I'm a bit angry.

Had I known Robert Dietz was a professional with clients who paid him for information, I never would have allowed him to mail me anything.

It appears he was fishing for an endorsement. I suspect I was being used.

I agree, a real person the wins consistently at gambling wouldnt give a crap what a bunch of anonymous people thought. He would be sipping pina coladas at a resort in between winning sessions. Who the F cares what a handfull of people on a message board thinks.

Unless its all a lie and the person is in need of attention living n a make believe world.

once you have the goose that lays the golden eggs,,,you neednt return to the beanstalk.....you are on your way in life,,,living the good life.....and protecting the goose.

waving the goose in front of others and drawing attention to myself would not be on my bucket list.

Alan....that is probably a wise deduction.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Right now I'm a bit angry. Had I known Robert Dietz was a professional with clients who paid him for information, I never would have allowed him to mail me anything. It appears he was fishing for an endorsement. I suspect I was being used.

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Thats why he waited for five years from the time he signed up here without divulging what he does. He didn't make his move until Argentino started interrogating him about what he does. Very sly. He was pulling the long con. But good for you, Alan. You didn't fall for it. You are one sharp cookie.

Mr. Mendelson, please don't take this the wrong way. The last thing I need is an endorsement from you. That would be silly. It would be like having you endorse me for my brain surgery skills. But what I was hoping you'd do was verify that the things I listed as having done or written were done and written, which Mr. Singer disputed, and that I was me, which was evident from the material, and which Mr. Singer also disputed.

As the resident high-profile journalist here, I thought you would/could eyeball the stuff and say, "Rob, you're wrong. Here is A, B, C, and D, as Mr. Dietz said. And Mr. Dietz is Mr. Dietz."

And if my plane went down, you'd have the material.

But why would I want you to endorse me? You don't really know anything about sports betting. Gambling-wise, being endorsed by you might not be a good thing for me. I mean, your relationship with Mr. Singer works against anybody giving credence to what you say gambling-wise. But you could certainly match what I said on this site to the written evidence for having done it from third parties. And you could eliminate any dispute about me as a poster being the guy who wrote the stuff.

I told Rob Singer from day one that that I believed you. I told him again after Tony told me what was in your package. But that made no difference to him.

Youre a professional sports tipster. You charge for and you were paid for your information. Why didn't you say that from the beginning?

All along I thought you were just a recreational player but it turns out you're a professional with a business.

I'm sorry but I have to step back from this discussion. You misled me and everyone else here.

Except for the fact that I referenced the invitation only www.VegasWiseGuys.com contest, made multiple references to being listed for decades in "Tipsters or Gypsters?", and said many times I was in "Who's Who is Sports Gambling," that would seem a likely conclusion. Or, as I told Mr. Singer on these pages, that the name of the enterprise is "Bob Dietz's Integrity Sports." Or that I suggested people use the wayback machine to check the old www.IntegritySports website to see what I was about. Or that I included copies of everything, plus some ad copy from the House of Sports commercial newsletter that appeared on national newsstands with my name and selections, in the package mailed to you. Or that every bio blurb in the op eds or articles I sent to you listed me as either a "professional gambler" or "professional handicapper."

Yes, other than those minor details, I completely misled you and everyone on this site. Was this a memory issue, a reading comprehension issue, or are you just trolling me?

And if you can find any post where I referred to myself as recreational, I have a 1K check for your favorite charity.

Good lord, recreational gamblers can't get in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" Or the Wise Guys Contest. Or "Who's Who is Sports Gambling?" What the bloody hell? If you don't know what you're talking about, just keep your mouth shut for once.

Crackerjack journalist instincts at their finest.

its funny ..on one site he is referred to as a "sports investment service".

its not gambling anymore....alot of these shoddy pick sellers are now "investment" firms.

please dont compare investing in stocks to betting on a game where injury, officials, unexpected weather, players on drugs spent players from partying,a bad bounce of a ball, unexpected suspensions or last minute DNP.....causes a loss of your "investment" in a period of a couple hours.

its dishonest to try to convince obvious dim witted people a bet on a sports team or abet on roulette or a bet on a hand of BJ or a lottery ticket is a "investment". Because only dim witted people would fall for that nonsense.

but its all over the place. I listen to sports talk radio alot...and the new wave of all the folks selling sprts picks either use the word "investment" in their pitch...or actually have that word in the name of their company.

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Originally Posted by LarryS

I agree, a real person the wins consistently at gambling wouldnt give a crap what a bunch of anonymous people thought. He would be sipping pina coladas at a resort in between winning sessions. Who the F cares what a handfull of people on a message board thinks.

Unless its all a lie and the person is in need of attention living n a make believe world.

once you have the goose that lays the golden eggs,,,you neednt return to the beanstalk.....you are on your way in life,,,living the good life.....and protecting the goose.

waving the goose in front of others and drawing attention to myself would not be on my bucket list.

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That's great, Larry. It would be helpful, however, to find one attempt by me to sign somebody up from a forum. Or find one person who signed up with me from a forum. I've been doing this 40 years. None exist. Other than that, you're spot on.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

You misled me and everyone else here.

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Redietz misled YOU. That's fucking rich, Alan. :rolleyes: I'll give you this Alan Mendelson....you must have one big sack of gonads.

What Redeitz did was trust you. Trusted that you were honorable and had some journalist integrity that you told us you had. He trusted you to act fairly as judge and jury. What you did instead was employ every single trick you learned at the "shyster" school of journalism. You, sir should be ashamed. :(

Alan, don't you dare stoop further and attempt to paint Redeitz as here peddling his services. That is outrageous. Mickey laid it out perfectly. Do you really believe Redietz, joined this site, laid low for 5 years, until the right moment when nutjob Singer called him out, so he could then divulge who he is and what he does, in the hopes of picking up new clients from this site of what 8 members. That was his 5 year plan? :rolleyes:

Just stop Alan...just stop. You have been dangerously straddling that line, half way across that bridge of no return. The bridge to Singer/larryS land. Alan, turn around and come back to the real world.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Just stop Alan...just stop. You have been dangerously straddling that line

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The bus to Troll Town is now arriving at gate three.

See the cursed craps table.

Marvel at the mystery of eighteen yo's in a row.

Ignore reality.

All aboard!

inspired by Redietz and his "investing" in sports business.

Scene opens.....Jenny is talking to her parents

Jenny:mom i want you to make a good impression on joey when he comes over for dinner tonight
Mom: dont worry Jen.....by the way what does he do for a living
Jenny: He owns his own investment firm
Dad: thats impressive princess.......I cant wait to meet him

Doorbell rings

Jenny answers and walks in with a man resembling Louie Depalma in Taxi, with a half smoked unlit cigar in his mouth, on the phone discussing a bet with a "client"..i mean discussing an "investment"

Jenny: mom and dad I want you to meet Joey
jOEY: holds up his hand for the folks to shut up while he finishes his "investment" consultation

Mom: whos he talking to Jen

Jenny: he is talking to an investment client

Dad: why would the investment client need to know about the dallas cowboys

Jenny: because they might want to make an investment on who wins against Seattle this week.

Dad: you mean he sells sports picks and calls himself an investment firm consultant?

Jenny: Yes....whats wrong with that

Dad: walks to the kitchen, comes out, with a pistol......holds up the gun, and puts a bullet in his own head.

the 3 resume dinner after joey gets off the phone.

Sounds almost like a story you told on another site about card counters. Do you have no new original material. Are we just going to be subject to your recycled crap.

But I am glad you told it. It demonstrates in no uncertain terms, what you are about, putting down and discrediting AP's of all sorts. As if anyone didn't know that.

But that's ok. I suspect you won't be here long. I think Dan will give you just enough rope to hang yourself. And then you will be back over talking to yourself, the wall and garnabby/OneHit.

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Originally Posted by LarryS

inspired by Redietz and his "investing" in sports business.

Scene opens.....Jenny is talking to her parents

Jenny:mom i want you to make a good impression on joey when he comes over for dinner tonight
Mom: dont worry Jen.....by the way what does he do for a living
Jenny: He owns his own investment firm
Dad: thats impressive princess.......I cant wait to meet him

Doorbell rings

Jenny answers and walks in with a man resembling Louie Depalma in Taxi, with a half smoked unlit cigar in his mouth, on the phone discussing a bet with a "client"..i mean discussing an "investment"

Jenny: mom and dad I want you to meet Joey
jOEY: holds up his hand for the folks to shut up while he finishes his "investment" consultation

Mom: whos he talking to Jen

Jenny: he is talking to an investment client

Dad: why would the investment client need to know about the dallas cowboys

Jenny: because they might want to make an investment on who wins against Seattle this week.

Dad: you mean he sells sports picks and calls himself an investment firm consultant?

Jenny: Yes....whats wrong with that

Dad: walks to the kitchen, comes out, with a pistol......holds up the gun, and puts a bullet in his own head.

the 3 resume dinner after joey gets off the phone.

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Larry, I'm sure you're just as enthusiastic explaining why day traders aren't really investing. While I agree with you that there should probably be separate words for investments of varying time durations, unfortunately in English, there are not. And then one would get into the realm of futures, which actually fit your definition of investment if time is of the essence.

Then one gets into the sticky question of "if something makes 10% a year for 40 years," is it investing or is it something else? I understand it's a tough, tough question. Now that is an average, and it's not even a modal score. The variances year to year are large, and I lose once every six to seven seasons. I say "seasons" because 90% of what I do is college football.

And finally, if it makes you feel any better, I haven't "sold sports picks" for more than a decade. But I forgive you for not knowing anything about the person you're referencing. That seems to be a quirk of yours -- all opining, no facts. That's okay -- one runs into it quite frequently on this site.

But wait, I anticipate your brilliant follow-ups. I operate on percent of profit. But wait again, I'm clairvoyant and can guess your next question. No, people do not get differing plays. Wow -- what a concept.

Really, if you're going to be a brilliant purveyor of truth, try to do a little research.

I'm sorry I missed any previous posts about Integrity Sports. I'm sorry I didn't know various contests were for professional sports tipsters. I made a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'm sorry I missed any previous posts about Integrity Sports. I'm sorry I didn't know various contests were for professional sports tipsters. I made a mistake.

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Tony didn't tell you about Integrity Sports?

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by LarryS

inspired by Redietz and his "investing" in sports business.

Scene opens.....Jenny is talking to her parents

Jenny:mom i want you to make a good impression on joey when he comes over for dinner tonight
Mom: dont worry Jen.....by the way what does he do for a living
Jenny: He owns his own investment firm
Dad: thats impressive princess.......I cant wait to meet him

Doorbell rings

Jenny answers and walks in with a man resembling Louie Depalma in Taxi, with a half smoked unlit cigar in his mouth, on the phone discussing a bet with a "client"..i mean discussing an "investment"

Jenny: mom and dad I want you to meet Joey
jOEY: holds up his hand for the folks to shut up while he finishes his "investment" consultation

Mom: whos he talking to Jen

Jenny: he is talking to an investment client

Dad: why would the investment client need to know about the dallas cowboys

Jenny: because they might want to make an investment on who wins against Seattle this week.

Dad: you mean he sells sports picks and calls himself an investment firm consultant?

Jenny: Yes....whats wrong with that

Dad: walks to the kitchen, comes out, with a pistol......holds up the gun, and puts a bullet in his own head.

the 3 resume dinner after joey gets off the phone.

---

Larry, I'm sure you're just as enthusiastic explaining why day traders aren't really investing. While I agree with you that there should probably be separate words for investments of varying time durations, unfortunately in English, there are not. And then one would get into the realm of futures, which actually fit your definition of investment if time is of the essence.

Then one gets into the sticky question of "if something makes 10% a year for 40 years," is it investing or is it something else? I understand it's a tough, tough question. Now that is an average, and it's not even a modal score. The variances year to year are large, and I lose once every six to seven seasons. I say "seasons" because 90% of what I do is college football.

And finally, if it makes you feel any better, I haven't "sold sports picks" for more than a decade. But I forgive you for not knowing anything about the person you're referencing. That seems to be a quirk of yours -- all opining, no facts. That's okay -- one runs into it quite frequently on this site.

But wait, I anticipate your brilliant follow-ups. I operate on percent of profit. But wait again, I'm clairvoyant and can guess your next question. No, people do not get differing plays. Wow -- what a concept.

Really, if you're going to be a brilliant purveyor of truth, try to do a little research.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LarryS

inspired by Redietz and his "investing" in sports business.

Scene opens.....Jenny is talking to her parents

Jenny:mom i want you to make a good impression on joey when he comes over for dinner tonight
Mom: dont worry Jen.....by the way what does he do for a living
Jenny: He owns his own investment firm
Dad: thats impressive princess.......I cant wait to meet him

Doorbell rings

Jenny answers and walks in with a man resembling Louie Depalma in Taxi, with a half smoked unlit cigar in his mouth, on the phone discussing a bet with a "client"..i mean discussing an "investment"

Jenny: mom and dad I want you to meet Joey
jOEY: holds up his hand for the folks to shut up while he finishes his "investment" consultation

Mom: whos he talking to Jen

Jenny: he is talking to an investment client

Dad: why would the investment client need to know about the dallas cowboys

Jenny: because they might want to make an investment on who wins against Seattle this week.

Dad: you mean he sells sports picks and calls himself an investment firm consultant?

Jenny: Yes....whats wrong with that

Dad: walks to the kitchen, comes out, with a pistol......holds up the gun, and puts a bullet in his own head.

the 3 resume dinner after joey gets off the phone.

---

Larry, I'm sure you're just as enthusiastic explaining why day traders aren't really investing. While I agree with you that there should probably be separate words for investments of varying time durations, unfortunately in English, there are not. And then one would get into the realm of futures, which actually fit your definition of investment if time is of the essence.

Then one gets into the sticky question of "if something makes 10% a year for 40 years," is it investing or is it something else? I understand it's a tough, tough question. Now that is an average, and it's not even a modal score. The variances year to year are large, and I lose once every six to seven seasons. I say "seasons" because 90% of what I do is college football.

And finally, if it makes you feel any better, I haven't "sold sports picks" for more than a decade. But I forgive you for not knowing anything about the person you're referencing. That seems to be a quirk of yours -- all opining, no facts. That's okay -- one runs into it quite frequently on this site.

But wait, I anticipate your brilliant follow-ups. I operate on percent of profit. But wait again, I'm clairvoyant and can guess your next question. No, people do not get differing plays. Wow -- what a concept.

Really, if you're going to be a brilliant purveyor of truth, try to do a little research.

---

actually I am just about done on this topic...once you claim to be in the "investment" field there is no more I can say. Using your picks as an "investment", paying 1k for a DI seminar is an "investment" buying John Patrick books are an "investment".

next thing you know you are going to tell us you are a professional......operating in a "profession"

nope.....not me....no need to go any further. You have taken the english language and molded it to your needs....I cannot have a cogent debate with a person who cannot grasp simple concepts and definitions

If i was Jenny's dad i would put a bullet in my head as well.

anyone who gives out sports picks can call themselves an investment advisor, and in this world anyone who counts cards can call themselves a "professional"....whether they are living in crack dens shooting up heroin daily, or if they are living in an apartment giving out picks via computer ...they are professional investment advisors and professional blackjack players...and there is no agency or board of oversight to deem them competent as in real professions.

heck call yourself "senior investment advisor"....give your self a promotion and call yourself " senior executive investment advisor"......i dont care..it always ends up being" buyer beware"

in the old days on a horse and wagon, people would come into town selling their miracle elixirs and potions...and we have on the internet the equivalent today. there are miracle elixirs to make your beautiful, make you money, make you well.

So take your fake investor advisor title, and KJ can take his fake tag of "professional" and live in your own dream world using your own personal language

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LarryS

I cannot have a cogent debate with a person who cannot grasp simple concepts and definitions.
...and KJ can take his fake tag of "professional" and live in your own dream world using your own personal language

---

I HAVE grasped the definition.

pro·fes·sion·al.
[prəˈfeSH(ə)n(ə)l]

2. (a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime:

"a professional boxer"

Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't understand the language.

The dictionaries AND the United States Government, which defines me as a professional gambler are wrong. And LarryS and whatever definition he decides suits him is correct. :rolleyes: And this is why you have little credibility and no one takes you seriously.

Larry has problems with language going back years. Personally, if the worst someone can say about me professionally (see what I did there, Larry?) is that I use the word "investment" inappropriately, I'm good with that. I don't really know what other word to use regarding futures and middle shots and such. I did look up the word "investment," and -- gee -- it seems to apply. But with Larry, actual definitions do not matter, records do not matter, profits over decades do not matter. Industry recognition doesn't matter. In my case, giving academic papers vetted by academics and editors doesn't matter. What matters is Larry's opinion.

And that's the way it should be, because Larry has the absolute best opinions. Ask anybody.

And then Larry does his usual -- when presented with many things he said that were factually wrong, he doesn't address what he got wrong, or even acknowledge it, or (god forbid) apologize. No, he gravitates his verbiage to what he perceives as some weakness in the other person's presentation and opines. No facts, just opining.

Then he goes on his "the Larry definition is better than the dictionary or common-usage definition" sarcasm binge. Never mind that he's wrong regarding the definitions themselves. What's important is Larry's perception of himself as a great judge of what is valuable and what isn't.

And the dude is anonymous. How can a great purveyor of truth be anonymous? Actually, Larry is slipping somewhat. He used to at least assemble some facts here and there, or make some convoluted arguments to support his judgements. Now he just opines.

Larry, there's just two things I want to know, and I'm sure you can aid and assist me: (1) Does God talk directly to you? and (2) Is the Prez propped up by Russian money through Deutsche Bank?

the govt came up with the term "professional gambler" as a way to collect from a group of people. It was just a flunkie accountant in the IRS that came up with terminology that their agency uses. They will also acceot on a tax form without question
professional ditch digger
professional house sitter
professional flyer distributer on the vegas strip
professional dog walker
professional walmart security dude
professional ball washer.
professional pimp

according to the govt...all those folks can call themselves professionals as long as they pay taxes.

yet none of the above have over-seeing agencies or boards that ensure competency, knowledge, professionalism at a determined set of standards.

A child molester crack addict sitting in prison can call themselves a PROFESSIONAL AP in good standing, a professional house sitter in good standing, a professional ditch digger in good standing.......and there is no agency that would take away their credentials.......BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CREDENTIALS.

A lawyer, doctor, pharmacist, nurse,teacher....that just got out of jail for murdering and raping a 12 year old girl.....could never attain their professional credential again. Yet A professional AP, a professional executive investment consultant, a professional blackjack player,all can maintain their self proclaimed credentials. There was never anyone who could strip them of their sel;f annointed credential.

It is comforting to KJ to know that he could slaughter a bus load of children, then rape them, then eat their flesh.....and never lose his status as a "professional". He can have blackjack tournaments in jail, win cigarettes and still be a professional. No one can strip him of that credential

Larry, you beat this subject to death at GF. Please don't do it here. I'm a self-appointed professional gambler. But I have a proven track record to myself. I don't care what others, especially you, think or believe about it. And I consider you to be a professional troll. I'm sure you don't give a rats ass about my opinion on that.

very true MC. and have fun in life playing the role of a "professional"...it it makes you happy..thats all that counts. It doesnt effect me or society in a negative way....so why not.
Dr PHIL had someone who claimed that he was friends with and wrote songs for Katy Perry. To each his own

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Sounds almost like a story you told on another site about card counters. Do you have no new original material. Are we just going to be subject to your recycled crap.

But I am glad you told it. It demonstrates in no uncertain terms, what you are about, putting down and discrediting AP's of all sorts. As if anyone didn't know that.

But that's ok. I suspect you won't be here long. I think Dan will give you just enough rope to hang yourself. And then you will be back over talking to yourself, the wall and garnabby/OneHit.

---

no with card counters, the father would put 2 bullets in the card counters head, and then the 3 would go have dinner.

I've grappled elsewhere with the concept of "professional gambler," and found it difficult and a bit thought provoking to define.

Formal education, credentials and certification are required of "white collar" professionals such as lawyers and pharmacists.

"Blue collar" professionals such as plumbers and electricians are licensed and regulated.

The gray area comes with wholly unregulated, self-taught endeavors such as gambling.

Where do you draw the line between a mere "occupation" and a "profession?"

I side with LarryS. on this one;a person who supports himself from gambling is not a professional, as there is no licensing, certification or regulatory oversight; they are simply successful gamblers, nothing more.

Sorry, AP's: you don't warrant the cachet and the respect of a true "professional."

they are trades people. And there is nothing wrong with that. I cant decorate cakes, and admire those that can create those beautiful ones at weddings and other occasions.
A cake decorator, a plumber, a carpenter, a mechanic are trades people.
Card counting for a living is a trade. Something I dont do, and frankly dont have the patience to do. There is a talent involved, but having a talent in something doesnt make you a professional automatically.

There are 16 year old high school girls that have a talent at taking care of babies for hours at a time....they are called babysitters....not professional babysitters. They have a talent, they make money, and they are nit a professional. Having talent and making money from it is not the key to let you into the door of a profession. At least not those 2 items alone.

Its no dishonor to be a tradesman,,,,I dont know why some tradesman need to self elevate themselves in their minds by assigning themselves the moniker of professional.
Its an awkward fit as the outside world observes.
Its amusing
But in the end it doesnt hurt anyone. just like a dude that brags in a bar he is Beyonce's cousin.

I don't even like the term "professional gambler." It's not descriptive of what I do. I'm in risk management. I risk money to win money. I find situations where I hold a mathematical advantage against the casinos. But there is a balancing act. I can't overplay my bankroll or I expose myself to going broke. I analyze and design plays where my risk of ruin is somewhere about .000000001%. Low risk/high reward plays are my specialty. So instead of calling me a "professional gambler" would you please call me a "risk arbitrageur."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I've grappled elsewhere with the concept of "professional gambler," and found it difficult and a bit thought provoking to define.

Formal education, credentials and certification are required of "white collar" professionals such as lawyers and pharmacists.

"Blue collar" professionals such as plumbers and electricians are licensed and regulated.

The gray area comes with wholly unregulated, self-taught endeavors such as gambling.

Where do you draw the line between a mere "occupation" and a "profession?"

I side with LarryS. on this one;a person who supports himself from gambling is not a professional, as there is no licensing, certification or regulatory oversight; they are simply successful gamblers, nothing more.

Sorry, AP's: you don't warrant the cachet and the respect of a true "professional."

---

The main thing you have to do to come to such a conclusion is ignore the dictionary definition of "professional." Or contact Merriam-Webster and tell them to change the definition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LarryS

It is comforting to KJ to know that he could slaughter a bus load of children, then rape them, then eat their flesh.....and never lose his status as a "professional". He can have blackjack tournaments in jail, win cigarettes and still be a professional. No one can strip him of that credential

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LarryS

no with card counters, the father would put 2 bullets in the card counters head, and then the 3 would go have dinner.

---

Ok, I am done here until such time as LarryS exits. I am not going to participate on a site with this kind of really sick dude. The site was slowly heading in the right direction....I am not going back to the 'singer' days.

For what it's worth, LarryS isn't even posting new 'hate'. He is 'cut and pasting' the same hate he spewed at Gambling Forum. THAT should tell Dan Druff and anyone else what his intentions are here. Same as every other site he is on...to destroy it.

I wish those that I consider my internet friends, MickeyCrimm, Redietz, RS_, Axelwolf, as well as everyone else (even Alan) with the exception of LarryS, a Happy Holiday Season and good fortune, variance and maybe most important, good health in the coming year.

This will make, what, the fourth or so time you gave a dramatic exit speech?

How is he a "really sick dude?"

Relentless, sure, but "sick?"

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

To my eyes it looks like you are pouting and stamping your ruby reds because someone you dislike is now posting.

Cowboy up, KJ; cowboy up.

I have no problem with the term "professional gambler" because I think most people understand it for what it is: gambling for a living.

But when someone involved in gambling calls himself an investment counselor I worry that there is potential fraud or scam in the works.

I don't know who would consider gambling as an investment that is on par with stocks, bonds, real estate?

However, with that said: years ago when I traded stock options my stockbroker said to me "if you want to gamble don't do options and go to Vegas instead. At least you'll get free drinks."

The thing that makes it hard to quantify is that despite my wanting to adopt the definition as I laid out above, in my "gut" I recognize that there are in fact professional gamblers.

Guys who make a good living via WSOP, for example; successful sports bettors like Billy Walters (pre-conviction, anyway).

If a gambler makes a good living, year in and year out, without any other means of support then he probably has the right to call himself a "professional."

In this instance, experience may take the place of formal education, and the ability to avoid being detected and 86'ed by the casinos might supplant formal regulation.

Whatever, if someone can make a good living from casino gambling I say "more power to you."

MisterV I guess anyone who plays a lot in casinos can call himself a professional gambler. But not all professional gamblers make a decent living. Some professional gamblers sleep in their cars and wash up in the casino restrooms.

some minimum wage earning security guards call themselves professionals and they too dont make alot of money. Being a professional has zero to do with money earned.
As a pharmacist, I can open the doors to a brand new pharmacy, and I wont be profitable for 3 years. I am still a professional practicing with a license under the supervision of the board of pharmacy acting under codes of conduct and legal and professional standards of practice.

A child molesting crack addict can deem himself a professional gambler and there is no one that can remove that self imposed credential. He can even get business cards saying so....and he will always be in the fraternity of professional gambler.....even if he sticks a knife in your stomach while you are both playing craps. He is still a professional gambler in good standing. Wow....what a profession.......a child molesting crack addict that sticks a knife into alan while playing craps is still considered to be welcomed in his chosen profession. In real professions, a known child molesting crack addict has the credential removed by an over-seeing authority.

Billy Walters,,,,as he sits in jail is still a professional gambler. Not a gambler by trade. Nope...he is a professional. lol

Larry would you please name someone who is a child molesting crack addict professional gambler? Give us an example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Larry would you please name someone who is a child molesting crack addict professional gambler? Give us an example.

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It doesn't take half of a brain to understand the point Larry was making.

Well... maybe it does.

Many professionals go rogue, break the law, have melt downs and act "unprofessionally."

That's not the point.

The point is a man might be warranted in calling himself a professional gambler if he is able to support himself and his family, year in and year out, earning enough money to live a normal life, pay taxes, buy a house, send his kids to college, set up a good IRA, have health insurance, travel and eat and live well.

That kind of disciplined guy would earn the title; not many around, and he'd be the exception to the rule.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Many professionals go rogue, break the law, have melt downs and act "unprofessionally."

That's not the point.

The point is a man might be warranted in calling himself a professional gambler if he is able to support himself and his family, year in and year out, earning enough money to live a normal life, pay taxes, buy a house, send his kids to college, set up a good IRA, have health insurance, travel and eat and live well.

That kind of disciplined guy would earn the title; not many around, and he'd be the exception to the rule.

---

You seem to be adding qualifications to make someone a successfull professional gambler. I don't think those qualifications are needed.

Even if you eke out a living just gambling I think you can call yourself a professional gambler.

Now if you want to be a successful professional gambler then you'll have to show me your tax returns, your health insurance, your vacation and retirement savings and so forth.

A full time gambler who doesn't make enough to support himself in comfort is a stupid idiot in my opinion.

He is choosing an alternative path; rather than get a real job he chooses to gamble.

I suppose if he plays with an advantage and remains undetected for many years, quietly raping the casinos, he'd be a pro.

Compare his average income over the years to the median income for someone of his age for a fair yardstick to gauge success.

MisterV I agree there are idiot professional gamblers. Some claim to be advantage players and would earn more money and would have health insurance and other benefits doing something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MisterV I agree there are idiot professional gamblers. Some claim to be advantage players and would earn more money and would have health insurance and other benefits doing something else.

---

The same can be said of a drywall contractor, real estate developer, car wash owner, restaurant owner, etc. Who pays for their insurance and benefits? They do.

But it does come down to choice of careers. I chose my path and will never change it.

What I don't like is someone continually associating crack addicts and child molesters to my profession. It's not reasonable or fair. You can find those kind of people in all walks of life. But then myself, redietz and kj were longtime targets of Larry's at Gambling Forums before we now are here. Don't look for him to get any better. He has a very long track record of not changing.

I wonder how the IRS treats the issue?

As a white collar professional filing as a sole proprietor, I am allowed to deduct my business expenses from gross income on schedule "C."

I would assume that the same would hold true with a someone who lists their profession as "gambler," reports all wins, deducts all losses, and also claims and deducts business expenses.

Presumably if someone did that year after year and the IRS allowed it, that would indicate that the IRS accepts the fact that the filer is deemed legit.

We as little people have our own definition of "professional gambler," but the opinion of the IRS is probably the only one that really matters.

MisterV I think you are correct that the IRS decides who is a professional gambler. If you don't have a profit in a certain number of years the IRS considers gambling a hobby.

So I hope all our gambling professionals, including our esteemed APs are filing their taxes.

But it appears you missed the claims of Rob Singer who said he had enough business deductions including dinners and parties to offset his million dollars of gambling profits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

MisterV I agree there are idiot professional gamblers. Some claim to be advantage players and would earn more money and would have health insurance and other benefits doing something else.

---

there are idiot full time babysiters, idiot full time cake decorators, idiot full time flyer distributers.......so what. Some are successful financially and some arent. Just like full and part time idiot gamblers.....some are financially successful and some arent. Every trade, and job description has their idiots and their financially successful. idiots and non idiots. However they can be idiots, non idiots, child molestors, crack addicts....and they can still call themselves in their minds...."professional" baby sitters, house sitters, cake decorators , APs,...and no oversight authority can dispute that. Its a self proclaimed title that is meaningless. The perm "professional" is meaningless in this case.

the term professional in the IRS context is purely a moniker bestowed for book keeping purposes of the govt.

the govt by using that term doesnt for a minute conclude that these people have some sort of standard by which they act, no oversight authority viewing them like aLL OTHER PROFESSIONS......The govt doesnt conclude that there is a basic entry standard that must be met so as to earn the title "professional".

Purely a title they use tomake people feel good as they demand payment

people can call themselves professions, investment consultants, executive investment managers, Ultimate executive AP, ..its all self proclaimed nonsense...and it makes me smile....and for me thats what counts. THose folks give me something to laugh about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LarryS

the term professional in the IRS context is purely a moniker bestowed for book keeping purposes of the govt.

the govt by using that term doesnt for a minute conclude that these people have some sort of standard by which they act, no oversight authority viewing them like aLL OTHER PROFESSIONS......The govt doesnt conclude that there is a basic entry standard that must be met so as to earn the title "professional".

Purely a title they use tomake people feel good as they demand payment

people can call themselves professions, investment consultants, executive investment managers, Ultimate executive AP, ..its all self proclaimed nonsense...and it makes me smile....and for me thats what counts. THose folks give me something to laugh about.

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I quickly learned to skip over larry's posts. If you've read one you've read them all. He beats a subject to death with the same old rehashed argument over and over and over again. He's very boring to read as you will all find out. A waste of time.

you do such a good job skipping over my posts, that you seemed to have accidentally read and quoted one and then commented on it. Nice comment but for some reason how could anyone believe you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LarryS

you do such a good job skipping over my posts, that you seemed to have accidentally read and quoted one and then commented on it. Nice comment but for some reason how could anyone believe you.

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Hey, whats this? A two sentence post by larry? I'm flabbergasted. I can actually get though two sentences of his. But that's about it.