Are the new generation of machines as exploitable as the former generation(s)?
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Are the new generation of machines as exploitable as the former generation(s)?
There are many exploitable machines. There are some new ones that offer great opportunities. I would say that 200-300 per day is reasonable for a machine hustler in today's world. The main problem, at least in Vegas, would be the sheer volume of competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
I was around for the golden age vulturing which ran from the late nineties to the early 2000's. When the casinos had lots of IGT Visions, Oddyssey machines and Williams machines. It was great at the start but wound up a grind as more and more vultures develped. But then I pretty much only worked Nevada at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
To me the money on the new exploitable games is far better than it was then. But I stay out of Nevada, that is, except for one little side trip I have planned. I'll see what I find there.
There is one new game I dominate everywhere I go. I don't collect stats on a game forever. But I do collect enough stats to know where I'm at in the game. I find the sweet spot somewhere above breakeven but lower than the other hustlers are willing to play it. I take a 5% edge and put up with the variance while the other hustlers won't play anything below a 10% edge. They don't even know they are at a !0% edge. They are just guessing they have an advantage. I can tell by the numbers they play where they are at. But because they won't play lower I get all the plays and run 10X the wager at 5% than they do at 10%.
I will ask the question more specifically which MrV may or may not have asked about in his general question
There seems to be more and more what I call carnival slots, they are more recently very bright, well lit, nowadays maybe 9 feet tall. Many themes, Elvira, big bang theory, Lord of the rings, new age Buffalo machines, batman(old tv show), Sex in the City, ..alot of bells and whistles,...alot of big screen bonus opportunties that lets people have fun,,,,but pays shit from what I can see when watching others.
to me these are "new age"///i am not sure if MrV was referencing these or what specific "new age" slots he was referring
The games you named are about 90% return and there is nothing in them that can be exploited by a knowledgeable player.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
For new age slots just think of a movie or TV show. Titanic, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Ellen (as in Ellen Degeneres), The Simpsons, The Wizard of Oz, Lord of the Rings, The Hangover, Ghostbusters, Willy Wonka, etc.
yup, i lump them ins as well..i have seen them all...eye candy....like super models........, but you arent getting anywhere with them
A version of LOR and SITC were exploitable.
With the exception of progressives, bonus banking, accumulating, must hit, most slots are and never were exploitable themselves.
All slots have the potential of being exploited with casino promotions and mail.
It may not be as good as it used to be, but it's not even as close to as bad as some people think/claim, it's just different. For example: back in the day, there was no such thing as free play. Nowadays, almost all casinos offer free play.
I haven't really gotten into the new machine sniping game, so I cant tell you how good it is. You can ask 20 different people and they will all have a different answer.
I can't imagine its as good as it was back in the 90's but I could be wrong. Not to mention there was nowhere near the amount of hustlers like there is nowadays.
Don't mean to derail but I had been thinking that as the economy gets better are the street entertainers downtown, water sales people and assorted hustlers moving to greener pastures? I would think the legitimate entertainer types would be able to get back to regular work.
Are you serious?? Those people are never leaving that scene unless the law changes back. That doorway was opened years ago and it isn't closing any time soon. It's pretty amazing what is allowed right in front of the Casinos. I myself thought about grifting out there as well but I'm just too lazy and old and no ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by quahaug
This is a golden opportunity for some young black man with a passing resemblance to the title character in "Black Panther" to go busking in costume, either downtown or mid-strip.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
Is the money and lifestyle on the street that good compared to working a regular gig? I haven't been out there since the Obama depression got into full swing but my impression was the street entertainers got hit pretty hard and lost opportunities whether corporate or public (in casinos) jobs. I'm not talking about beggars and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetAre you serious?? Those people are never leaving that scene unless the law changes back. That doorway was opened years ago and it isn't closing any time soon. It's pretty amazing what is allowed right in front of the Casinos. I myself thought about grifting out there as well but I'm just too lazy and old and no ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by quahaug
I would say it is like anything else in life. It is what you make of it and how ambitious you are. From what I can tell those guys make around 60 to 120 a day and drink or gamble it away. I see them at the VP bar usually after they call it quits. I was actually thinking of printing up maps and strategy charts of what and where to play and selling them for 5 to 20 dollars a pop to help out the tourists get a better gamble. My point is I don't see a decline in how many people are on the street doing what they do. It seems to me they just keep coming which is fine... everyone needs a job. I know a few years ago the city made them go through a lottery system to get a specific circle and time slot but not sure if that is still in effect or working. I remember right before that it was getting crowded where you would have 20 characters dressed up in a long line!? That isn't even counting all the others up and down the Fremont Experience. Lately I just rush by the whole thing moving from Casino to Casino not noticing anymore but I will tell you they get crazy around 2 or 3 am with very loud rap music on the street with lots of profanity. That is amazing that its allowed like that. I am guessing they would of all ended up in the desert if they tried to do that in the 60's, 70s, or 80s... in the 90s metro would of ran them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by quahaug
monet or any other AP
In the 70s there was a guy that for many years sold a "system" for buying real estate with no money down, and reselling. He had hour long info-mercials and it went on for about 15 years....very successful for him. It seems selling his info was more profitable than doing the hard grind himself.
after reading your insights.....and the grind and bankroll needed to obtain the desired result......why do you think there hasnt been an AP in slots that advertised seminars made his money as the teacher than as the grind it out AP. It could be national or just local promotion.
Some magician made alot of money from FOX exposing the secrets of popular magic trics.....on episode after episode of those shows...even though there is a "code of secrecy".
So even if there is a "code" among APs........not ONE would sell out?
Eliot Jacobson already tried that. An AP has nothing to sell as the value of his information is diluted with each and every use. Every time a leak is identified it gets plugged. I used to play the Royal 20 side bet until it disappeared due to being outed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
Most system sellers are selling Unexploitable information to the naive. The more participants the less pie there is to go around to each one.
yes but there are also plays that would hit no matter what. Like the minni jackpot on the XYZ machine will hit before it gets to 125 dollars. The general public doesnt know this. But joe blow on vacation will eat up that info, and go on a scavenger hunt to find machines
As soon as people become aware of certain opportunities they start fighting with each other and then they will try to exploit others that are not in the know. The casinos would just pull the machines like Steve Wynn did with the Bellagio when the hustlers started fighting with each other and started driving customers off as soon as they made good setups.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
but the AP seminar guy doesnt care about the consequences...he wants to make as much as he can from the 299.00 tourist special seminar at the holiday inn.
the magician that gave away all the secrets to FOX didnt care about consequences. He didnt care if it would effect the attendence of traditional magic shows.
you are giving me valid consequences though
There was a Deal or No Deal game a couple years ago that was exploitableQuote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Times are good right now, in the right situations would say it's on par with the 90's or even a little better.
There has been a nice surge of good games for the astute AP slot player in the last couple years.
I was a Fremont Street Busker. One time. On my annual Vegas Trip. I made the experience into a YouTube video. I made $54 in 30 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
Unowme, I may need some tips. I lost a bet five years ago. I owe a guy -- well, I need to stand on the corner of Paradise and the strip (it can be on a walkway), wearing just a diaper and a bow and arrow as a Cupid outfit. He hasn't been back to LV since, but I think he's looking to "get paid" in December.
I'm thinking maybe I can negotiate a downtown venue switch. Think I'd make more money and have less chance of arrest downtown? Or should I stick with the corner of the former Barbary Coast? If it's December, I'm going to need some serious Jack Daniels to keep warm. I really need to get down to 178 pounds post haste.
I did it downtown wearing a giant inflatable penis costume.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
AHHHH!!!!! That beats diaper Cupid all to death. Well, that's worthy of $54 in 30 minutes. I don't think Cupid's going to get those big tips, so to speak.
You had to have been real desperate to wear a Rob Singer costume. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by unowme
Here is a link to my trip report on Vegas Message Board. I explain exactly how to sign up to do it on Fremont. I also have a link to my short YouTube movie...Professor Willy's Vegas Vacation.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/fo...cation.127187/
Not Suitable for Work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OceV...ature=youtu.be
I'm glad I've taken my gaming seriously.....How is it anybody sees anything even remotely humorous or interesting in any of that?
And you people wonder why I've been able to do so well using discipline and determination throughout my vp career? No wonder anonymous people like kew, RS__ and jbjb can't come to grips with what I've accomplished. To them everything's a joke.
Another "you people" comment. Not sure if "Singer" is referring to people who dress in penis costumes, or white males, or buskers in general. Yeah, all that determination -- LOL. I must have missed something in the video. I didn't see "Professor Willy" playing video poker or blackjack or betting sports or anything. So why would the Professor traipsing down Fremont have anything to do with gambling at all? He wasn't even giving sage (and incorrect) gambling advice while wearing hideous Hawaiian shirts.
Some of us non-anonymous folks can appreciate humor when it lands in our laps. But not everyone.
It's clear to this reader that Singer's comment was directed towards people who wonder why he's been able to do so well using discipline and determination throughout his vp career.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I'm not sure if there are any forum members who wonder such things, but if there are then those are the people he is writing to.
I don't think race, costumes, or hobbies have anything to do with it.
The only thing Singer is disciplined at is running his big mouth.
Thanks, coach. I was confused by that. I had a hard time figuring out what he was referring to when the previous post featured a man in a penis costume and no gambling, plus no kewlJ, no jbjb, no RS, and no criticism of "Singer." Much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIt's clear to this reader that Singer's comment was directed towards people who wonder why he's been able to do so well using discipline and determination throughout his vp career.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I'm not sure if there are any forum members who wonder such things, but if there are then those are the people he is writing to.
I don't think race, costumes, or hobbies have anything to do with it.
I was wondering, would you credit more of whatever's "Singer's" done to determination or to discipline? I've never been able to figure out which was more crucial. I'm on the fence, myself.
:).....it didn't take one flap of the mouth to rattle you yet again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
Wise up dummy.
Weird. Just plain weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietzThanks, coach. I was confused by that. I had a hard time figuring out what he was referring to when the previous post featured a man in a penis costume and no gambling, plus no kewlJ, no jbjb, no RS, and no criticism of "Singer." Much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIt's clear to this reader that Singer's comment was directed towards people who wonder why he's been able to do so well using discipline and determination throughout his vp career.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I'm not sure if there are any forum members who wonder such things, but if there are then those are the people he is writing to.
I don't think race, costumes, or hobbies have anything to do with it.
I was wondering, would you credit more of whatever's "Singer's" done to determination or to discipline? I've never been able to figure out which was more crucial. I'm on the fence, myself.
You're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I guess you are easily confused...not surprising...you're a ditz.
Fence? LOL...you're on the spectrum, weirdo.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
That escalated quickly, especially since he THANKED you. You crossed the line with your reply. You insulted him. You owe him an apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyYou're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I guess you are easily confused...not surprising...you're a ditz.
My Lord, STFUQuote:
Originally Posted by TashaThat escalated quickly, especially since he THANKED you. You crossed the line with your reply. You insulted him. You owe him an apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyYou're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
I guess you are easily confused...not surprising...you're a ditz.
Fuck you Keystone.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeystoneMy Lord, STFUQuote:
Originally Posted by TashaThat escalated quickly, especially since he THANKED you. You crossed the line with your reply. You insulted him. You owe him an apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
The ditz was being snarky, his gratitude was insincere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
I thought that was obvious.