So what exactly did WoN / SAP do in order to con WoVers?
How could they be so fucking stupid as to fall for it?
Wow, what a bunch of greedy bastards.
"Fools and their money are soon parted."
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So what exactly did WoN / SAP do in order to con WoVers?
How could they be so fucking stupid as to fall for it?
Wow, what a bunch of greedy bastards.
"Fools and their money are soon parted."
Until monet came along I had a view of Aps as people like MC.....they find slots that are naturally ready to pay and go for it while using their free play and comps
I heard stories by axel about reaching under and stealing quarters in the old days....and thats as shady as I thought it got.
So wov was supposedly filled with those type of APs in my mind. No worse than folks that cheat on income tax or drive over the speed limit
Then monet came along and I thought he was nuts. He talked about all APs having a shady side including himself. Some more than others. And some more than others at various times in their lives.
But as i pay more attention to various stories and try to figure out whats going on ...I see it can be a shady world. All of a sudden to me Wov wasnt filled with these virtuous folks who just find the best plays that others dont know about....just armed with knowledge and no shady activity.
There was questionable activity.
And then this thing broke about WoN, and people being scammed as they chased a shady proposition. It gave monet great credibility.
It made me view wov and any AP site as a bastion for shady deals. Wov was portraying itself as a place for the virtuous , a place where everything was above board...strictly a board for mathmatical learning about the best plays......figuring out probabilities. solving math problems, while the underbelly side of AP was not openly discussed. So people like me on the outside saw the squeaky clean side of things. I wouldnt even know where to look to find the dirt.
So over thelast 2-3 days...its been an eye opener for a novice like me. While mission became the fall guy I learned a small portion of what is really going on.
I think the wiz, and the mods know about the underside of AP. Many may have even profited from the underside via WON or other contacts. Shady dealings.
which may be why you didnt hear a peep from any mod denouncing shady dealings....how disgusting that behavior is...how dishonorable....
Its not simply earning free play by strategically playing on triple point days, or accumulating comps like I originally thought. But there is definitely underhanded behavior and activity.Illegal behavior.
And with that being said....wov was outed this week at least to naive people like me..the world of AP was outed this week to naive people like me, and I probably dont even know 10 percent of the stuff that goes on.
So mission was the sacrificial lamb so that the mods and the APs can say they purged the bad players out......and now everything is on the up and up.
BUT in the end nothing has changed, nothing was accomplished.....everything is as it was a week ago. Its not like the valiant and pious APs remain..or the valiant and pious mods
Too much drama.
How I yearn for the carefree, halycon days spent on the old usenet craps and Las Vegas sites.
Oh wait, it was just as crazy then; never mind.
How did this site ever go from Alan and Singer to this?. It was inevitable once these 2 signed up tho
How did this site go to what, exactly, Keystone"Quote:
Originally Posted by Keystone
To answer your rhetorical question, those two were "lightning rods:" not only did they post prolifically, their posts often drew responses due to their confrontational, aggressive nature.
With them gone things haved quieted down substantially.
It is up to those who are still here to continue to post, if they wish to, and thus set the tone for this board.
This board, like your life, is what you make it.
I'm not an AP except in the sense that I like to minimize my actual out of pocket expense for the entertainment of gambling.
That having been said, I think it should be valuable to people who are or aspire to be APs that people are commenting here about this stuff. I rarely read on WOV but like LarryS I thought it was all just sharing knowledge about promotions and contests that created advantages worthwhile enough for players who do this for a living and travel around to do so to know where to go. That there's people buying free play and not paying and all these other scams is probably more surprising that it should have been.
Do these so-called AP's actually use stolen or "lost" cards of others without their permission?
How can they access any accrued free play without knowing the card owner's P.I.N., which is typically required to redeem anything?
Sounds like a felony to me, and if so, a woeful cost/benefit situation.
These birds would be better off getting a real job and then gambling after hours in their spare time.
I also wonder f some of the cards are stolen and if so are pins retrieved in underhanded ways.
Also I suspect cards from patrons that are ok..meaning that the owner knows about it and agrees to be paid cash for dollars he wont be around to play.....possibly those cards like cocaine, gets passed down from buyer to buyer,,,..each making a profit.
Someone can steal a diamond card that is left in a machine,and claim that it has 1000 on it and sell it for 400.
No, how would you do that? I'm not saying it's never been done in history (I've never seen it, though) but you would obviously have to know the PIN. The only way what you are describing could happen is if someone ran around watching people put PINs in and hoping for them to lose the card, or if someone wrote the PIN actually on the card, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
It would be a woeful cost/benefit and I imagine quite possibly illegal.
Besides that, if you jacked someone's Free Play without their permission and they go to the Players Club wondering what happened to their Free Play, I would hope the casino could see what machine the Free Play was played on and then would go to the surveillance and WHAMMO as soon as the casino sees the person that played it in there again.
I know some systems can see what specific machines a card was played on, but I believe that there are also systems that cannot.
ADDED: The CET properties in Atlantic City (maybe everywhere) have one really cool thing in that the numbers are scrambled when you put your PIN in, which is to say that they never appear in order. The result is that nobody could ever see what PIN you are putting in unless they are practically right next to you. It would be cool if everywhere did that, but I imagine there are a bunch of PIN resets because of people putting their own PIN wrong too many times.
The only way what you are describing would be possible would have to come from the inside because of either malice or negligence.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
MALICE: Casino staff changes the PIN for you. Casino staff, I believe, have no way of knowing what the PIN is, but they can change it.
NEGLIGENCE: Casino staff fails to ID you when you go up to the Players Club and ask for the PIN to be reset. They should definitely be ID'ing a person if they want to reset a PIN, though.
I don't think a PIN could be retrieved any other way in most systems, but I could be wrong. I guess it could theoretically be stored in the barcode somewhere, but I believe the barcode just has the PC number and the computer system stores the PIN. Maybe it depends on the casino. I've never considered doing anything anywhere near along these lines, so I've never really investigated the matter too much.
Yes, cards that the owner has given or sold to someone is not an uncommon thing at all. There are varying levels of white/black/gray on that.
I mean, if I go in with my fiance's card and I pick up my free play and hers, on a moral level, that's about as white as it gets. However, that would violate the terms of some casinos. In others, it might not. In other still, it might violate the terms, but they don't really care about it.
As to the last part, it wouldn't even necessarily have to be a high-level card. You could just claim that a card had big first day action on it and has great offers. My advice is don't buy cards from people, ever.
DID I POST FIVE TIMES TODAY!? IS IT A ROLLING 24 HOURS?
ADDED:
I want to be very clear, talking about this stuff is all well and fine, but just don't involve yourselves in any of this kind of bullshit unless you have ridiculously good reasons to trust a person.
Why?
I'm going to assume that you are acting in a light gray area, and still tell you the potential problems:
Let's say that the owner of a Players Club card, which is in that person's name, tells you that there is Free Play on it and offers to sell it to you for a discount. Again, in the AP world, this is a somewhat routine transaction. The darkest that this could even be is probably light gray, in my view.
Okay, so you pay cash for the card and have no written contract or record that guarantees the Free Play or stipulates any kind of resolution if the card gets killed or the Free Play is not what it is supposed to be. Even with documentation, I don't even see how it could be legally binding because you are already probably violating the casino's PC terms...but who knows?
Anyway, you pay for the card and expect the Free Play to be on there. Maybe you saw the mail or E-Mail.
1.) You could pick up the Free Play on one or more pickups, but then the owner of the card decides to jack you by going in and changing the PIN.
2.) The owner of the card could report the card lost/stolen, get a new card, and then ask, "Where is my Free Play that is supposed to be on here?" Again, WHAMMO for the person who used the card if that person could be identified.
3.) The offers could be not what was expected.
4.) The PIN could end up needing reset organically, which I mean not by anything the person you bought it from did. If that happens, now you have to hope that the person can come back and reset it so you can access the Free Play again, unless there is a person at the Players Club who does it without asking for an ID.
4a.) Also, keep in mind that some casinos have the picture of you stored from your driver's license in the computer. If that happens, then they may not ask for an ID as long as you look sufficiently like the person in question. If you look nothing like the person, they will almost certainly ask for an ID. NOW THAT'S GOING TO BE BIG TROUBLE. The reason why is that you are going to say something like, "Sorry, left it in the car, be right back." If the casino person does not report that sort of thing to a security person or supervisor as suspicious, I would say that is negligent.
4b.) For that reason, it's better not to go reset a PIN if you are not the person whose name is on the card. That's especially true if you know that the picture is in their system or if you don't know whether it is or not.
4c.) Maybe the person cannot make it back to the casino. After all, one would assume that they sold the Free Play to you for a reason. If the person is on the up-and-up, that's probably the reason.
5.) It could be a place where the mail gets killed if no play is done and only Free Play is picked up and you don't know that.
6.) You could legitimately lose the card, now you need the person to come back. There should be NO WAY a Players Club representative gives you a completely new physical card without an ID.
There are any other number of transactions and scenarios that would take me eleven million years to describe in full. Almost everything along these lines is done on a, "Good word," basis, which is why people get rightfully pissed if there are any shenanigans along these lines that they feel they or others are victims of.
Anyway, if you want my advice, my advice is DON'T DO IT. If you want to sell your card to someone, and you're not going to screw them over, that's morally fine. If you want to pick up Free Play for someone at a percentage, in my view, that's morally fine if you're not going to screw them.
I think buying cards straight up that purportedly have Free Play is nuts, but it's a common thing. I would pick up for a percentage or flat fee, but I would never buy. Unless you're absolutely loaded and losing money is a risk you're willing to take, Always Sell, Never Buy.
Also, be aware that all things described are quite possibly illegal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
If you want the, "Safest," course of action, it is to never do any of this. If you do any of this, then that is automatically not the most safe thing you could be doing. Understand the risks, think about every conceivable possibility.
It all depends on the employees and where you are at. Some employees are strict and want ID, players card, PIN number, urine and blood samples. Other employees don't give a hoot and swipe and say yeah whatever. The employees that bother me are the ones who swipe and tell you to sign and that's when they ask for the ID. Those employees get me going. I say, you swipe my account, give me the food and have me sign the bill and now you want ID??? F U buddy I forgot it... now what!?
I can tell you this... let's say you have a friend or friends on the inside. It is amazing how much power employees have at the players club... they can literally make a mistake and add 1000 free play to your account instead of the 100. Oops sorry boss I put an extra zero since we were so busy and I was going too fast. Put it this way... in any aspect of life you will find anything has a price or can be bought or sold.
However, don't listen to me. It's obvious that I'm just a degenerate, lunatic who has been involved in gaming since 8 years old which gives me over 30+ years experience. I've been in Vegas since 91 but I didn't get rooted until 98/99 or so. I'm just a no good scum sucker making up fictitious stories for my own amusement.
The difference between me and others is nobody gets PMs from me looking to meet up. It's always the other way around with members asking to meet me. The one exception was when I publicly tried to get 10 members to go to Hugo's with me but so many members seemed scared and people were posting it's a bad idea to let everyone know what day and time and The place. For me... I ain't scared. Nothing to hide and F the Casino if they throw me out for association. So instead I offered to meet ZK as long as AW showed up. They did and we played pool and it was nice but I hardly talk to them at all since. The only time I hear from Axel is when he asks me to stop posting up plays and information and I reply F that I'll post whatever I want but sometimes I'm nice to him and go delete things like double up at the Plaza. I'm not a total ahole??
Thanks for clarifying the way that AP's use the free play on cards they acquire, seemingly by a sale of the card by its owner to the AP.
Good to know, although I'll likely never attempt it myself.
I will never attempt it either. Although my wife always plays on my card and has even got w2g'd a few times. Which leads to t he question...can a casino with hold payment from the buyer of the card...or later on upon audit try to recapture money from the cardholder when they notice at the time or later on that the drivers lic. and social sec card were from another person from another address than the cardholder...you know for handpay w2g events.
And if they do....what good is the card,,,,,arent you trying to get a big hit?
More will be added to this post that will be on-topic. Apparently, I have hit five in a day again.
Response to LarryS in the WoV Thread:
The first reason you should shut your mouth is because it’s none of your business.
The second reason you should shut your mouth is because you don’t know me or my personality. I asked Wizard, as a friend, not to publicly defend me. If anyone is asking him privately, I imagine he is defending me. If I ask Wizard as a friend not to publicly defend me, and he does, then Wizard would be defying my request as a friend. If Wizard would defy my request as a friend he would be slightly less my friend than he is now.
The third reason you should shut your mouth is the site, and what he sold it for, has nothing to do with anything.
The fourth reason you should shut your mouth is because Wizard has proven, to my satisfaction, that he is my friend. Many times. Whether or not you think Wizard is my friend is immaterial, so please take your opinion of whether or not he is my friend, copy/paste it to a document a few hundred times, print it out and shove it up your ass.
The fifth reason you should shut your mouth about my friendships is because, if you don’t, I will never respond to you publicly or privately, knowingly, ever again.
I accept the apology that you will likely never give me. I said what I have to say. You and I are cool and are starting from zero, clean slate, as soon as you finish reading this sentence.
You shut your mouth when your talking to me!
I take from the response from mission that in the situation at Wov, he was dirtier than I expected. Hence he seems to vehemently not want his "friends" to defend him, and hence he didnt do much to defend himself. I just didnt know the extent .....but now I have a better gauge.
Still it doesnt lessen the cowardice of shackleford. As he did with KJ , he is glad to take the path of least resistance....not the path or being right, humane, fair, loyal, valiant.
A coward dies a thousand deaths.....the valiant but one.
seems the wiz has a thousand lives.,,much better than a cat.
its "mikes place" he can act a coward if he likes....blah blah blah. What a good good "friend"
His sale of the site is public record....a link to the article was posted on wov at the time.
from your "shut your mouth" tirade....I can see I hit a nerve.....the truth hurts.
Watching now!
LarryS., Mission has been forced to eat a shit sandwich this week, and I expect the very last thing he wants or needs is to have you insist that he keep eating more.
He's had to endure enough bullshit from the card carrying munchkins; just give the man a break.
Your intended target was the wiz, not Mission, but they say "timing is everything" and this just ain't the time.
the last thing I need is someonel ooking for brownie points from the remaining mods to give me a lesson in etiquette.
At least I speak directly to the person unlike you who on GG name called from a distance.....jackals
If anything he should appreciate someone who is honest and not underhanded as you were at GG....living an alternate life there.
would you like to go on wov and call the wiz.."unmanly" as you did on GG?
the fact remains that mission, wiz, BBB and face created the culture over there through their actions over the years that set up the lynching. It came back to bite him in the ass. The people with backbone who could have helped him are long gone. Leaving you to help him after all the smoke has cleared. Well good for you. You are a brave soul.
I am here. He can debate me. I dont have to toss grenades from a safe distance.
why dont you be brave, and go to wov and scold the people who posted 25 pages of negativity. Why not scold THEM that mission has had enough.Maybe after the 5th page. But now that the lynching is complete and you and the others got their result....got their pound of flesh,.....now you and they are the princess of moderation.
I dont decide my opinion based on which way the wind is blowing like you do. I am consistent. And its worth pointing out that the wiz acted cowardly as he also did with KJ. And that mission had a hand in creating the climate and culture that lead to his undoing.
I warned about this culture for years. And the mods defended it. So now as you say he had to eat shit. Because of his actions and because the mods sat by silently. Heck based on his response...mission sat by silently as well and showed no outrage about the info trickling in. So all in all they all deserve each other.
The wiz stated clearly that he wants people who break the rules to be shamed. And thats why he says he wont eliminate the suspension list. So" mission accomplished" with mission.....he was made to eat shit as you put it. Just like the wov culture demands....shaming is a bitch isnt it. Yet when the wiz stated that he wanted the suspension board to shame people, not one mod disagreed or dissented.
So if thats the culture that is created by wiz, and perpetuated by the mods......why should I feel sorry for the shaming of a mod......If its good enough for the munchkins its good enough for the mods.
in a way the dont let the door hit you on the way out attitude was just fine for the masses to use on mission. The bye bye you are the weakest link mod was an example of turnabout is fair play.
mission is a big boy.he spent years helping to create the culture that did him in. AN unforgiving culture. A back and white culture, with no empathy when it counts. A culture of rules and regs and people clamoring for punishment anf gladly quenched by the mods. A symbiotic relationship......people love to punish and people love to see punishment. They all feed off of each others.
And after the blood letting, and lynching, they all sit around with filled bellies and say "others should be more gentle"..who can we critique to show humanity for a person we publicly castrated.
nice try dude.
Something nobody has mentioned or perhaps a few people have mentioned it without much discussion. This is interesting because Mission only would step down as a Mod if he kept his other interests that are a paying gig. So in effect he doesn't really eat the sandwich you speak of. If anything it's a slight slap on the wrist going from green to blue. No punishment really... actually one could see it as a release from tedious work like reading threads that wouldn't be read otherwise. One thing is clear... you can tell Mike to jump off a cliff and you'll get a suspension... tell mike to GFY and your nuked!
I am shocked to see all the people who believe being a Mod at WoV doesn't have financial rewards one way or the other. It reminds me how this one buddy of Mike said that his friendship with him had nothing to do with anything monetary. Tough to believe that your an AP befriending a guy like Mike and defending him all the time and you don't reap any rewards financially in one way or another.
Truth be told. Awhile back before my demise or sarcastic nature online I was invited to the den of AP 40 dollar Wizard Poker game but I immediately declined. Could it of benefited me in the long run increasing my hourly? I have to admit it most likely couldn't of hurt but I'm stubborn. I made it on my own by myself in Vegas before and during these guys. I'm in a position of FU... so many times I don't want to meet people... especially the APs who claim being so moral and honest. I'm busy...I got my own troubles.
thats true, but Mr V tends to sway with the wind....he will stand with the lynch mob, and then later when its all over he will be the one to tell them when enough is enough.
anyway.....if mission doesnt have the credibility any longer to monitor a gambling message board. If people are saying that they wouldnt be able to trust him to protect their interests when monitoring a board. Then why would they feel that he has their interests in mind when writing an article
I guess the answer is that the articles are also for people who never read the message boards and know nothing about the cred issue.
so he still keeps his livelyhood...which is good.
I am shocked to see all the people who believe being a Mod at WoV doesn't have financial rewards one way or the other.
I do think that being a mod can carry some weight. And thats what its all about with WoN.....just sitting at a table with a wov mod lends cred to Won......and all mission kept sayings is "I didnt say anything at the table". And that was a weak reply.
So yes I agree as a mod on wov, there are more people probably willing to trust you in a "play" or invite you into a "play", or even use you like WoN was able to do by just hanging in public.
In your never-ending attempts to achieve your goal of shaming the shamer who shamed you (the Wiz), you LarryS. are using Mission as an expendable pawn, and he deserves better.
Hell, you just wrote of Mission at PB: "He like face would indeed enter the lions den and go face to face with detractors. That shows confidence and a sense of nothing to hide.
he came on GF and stuck up for himself and answered questions, although he didnt have to. Face did the same.
he was very open and candid."
Sounds like a good dude, doesn't it?
Then in your attempts to link the WoN / Mission clusterfuck to the wiz you blithely throw Mission under the bus.
If this is how you treat one of the few people you grudgingly seem to admire, I'd hate to see how you treat your detractors.
Oh never mind, that little morality play unfolds daily.
So go ahead, throw another corpse against the wall, maybe sooner or later you'll be able to claw up the pile, scale the ramparts, and face The Dark Lord in your much-desired Final Battle.
"There can be only one!"
I will do that as you call the manager of the wov message board a jackal and unmanly. from a distance,
the fact is that as I was banned in the middle of suggesting that there should be better customer service and members should be treated better, with more respect,...it seems maintaining the reverse culture that existed caused the cluster fuck.
And 2 things can be equally true. I can admire mission for participating in debate and answering questions. And I can blame him for helping to perpetuate the culture at wov that did him in.
the fact that I weigh the positive and the negative proves I dont need you as a board monitor telling me what is proper or balanced.
it was you that stood aside as he was pummeled and didnt do much to defend him. You never criticized the wiz or others for the goal to shame members that broke rules. So now mission got a taste of the culture he helped to create. A culture that MrV gladly allowed to simmer and brew without a complaint....because after all "its mikes house".
So the people that remain should be the last ones to be wringing their hands......they accepted the culture....they walked on eggshells to keep from disturbing that culture....and now the culture ravaged a mod and guilt is setting in. And now after the carnage, munchkins like MrV emerge and talk about the brutality of it all.
such hypocrites
Mission didnt resign because of what I SAID HERE ON ANOTHER BOARD. He resigned based on the responses from wov members. Go yell at them. Go tell them they are too brutal, and while you are at it ...look in the mirror as you stood by.
the reason he ate shit was not because of me...it was because of you and the other munchkins...acting in a culture he help to perpetuate.
so spare me the finger pointing.
and if anyone needs a reason mission needs no longer to be a mod.....the answer I give is....."you know why".
meanwhile the the guy that owes me 5k is reading this and still probably still insists that me and MrV are the same person. not the brightest/
I don't think the "culture" at WoV led to him resigning as much as the targeted accusations of a few members caused him to conclude "Fuck it, who needs this shit."
There are detractors and doubters throughout the internet, WoV is not unique in that regard.
Thanks to MisterV for everything he's saying.
Quick response to Monet:
People with kids generally don't resign from their primary employment without another job in place, I don't think. If my Administration (which I always thought to be volunteer and it was) and writing were somehow thought of as a, "Package deal," then I obviously could not resign from both without alternate primary employment in place. I believe that would be irresponsible to my kids, which I believe are supposed to be one's primary responsibility.
Anyway, I would have remained in both contexts, found some other form of (probably traditional) employment, then resigned from both upon starting that.
I'm on your side Mission. Even if something horrible comes out and everyone says your the Devil, that doesn't bother me. I was just stating the obvious that what happened to you wasn't a big deal, or it seems like nothing big to me. You went from green to blue and that's that. It may have cost you more behind the scenes but on the surface it looks like a slap on the wrist. Truth be told and I think you might understand this... I find it all humorous. I can't explain it but it seems that from my perspective these boards are more important than just typing out our ideas, feelings and opinions. From over here it sorta looks like a battleground and any battleground worth fighting for comes down to cash in this world. Forgive me though of my insensitive nature at being entertained by others good and bad fortune. Remember, I've always admitted to everyone that I'm the bad guy and not very agreeable.
thats not the reality of the situationQuote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Wov as I have said many ties is a site that has an " gotcha" culture
Members cry someone insulted them....and a punishment ensues. Letting the site evolve into a group of people who love to give out punishment and those who love to see punishment.
Heck, in the middle of the mission thread, some person was asking if the original poster of the deleted post needed to be punished for doxing.
Thats the mentality over there.
And when there is punishment, there are people who give post-mortems giving encouragement to the punisher. Its all very symbiotic. Everyone gets off on each other and the culture they preserve. People like myself that questioned that culture are long gone. The remaining folks like that climate.
There is also a climate put forth by the wizard and not challenged that people who break rules need to be shamed. His own words. No one has challenged that. That culture is fine and dandy. So its ok to suspend someone and announce that "you are the weakest link".....right in line with the shame factor. Who could object. Its "mikes house" and mike says shaming is fine.
Mike says people are disposable.....dont let the door hit you...if you dont like something. THe value of people is zero. He provides the board and everyone else are disposible "takers". Worthless.
So in a culture where people are not valued,are disposible, ....in a gotcha culture.....in a "we need to see punishment" culture.....in a shaming culture, in a "i like to punish when i am in a bad mood" culture......surprise.....finally a mod got caught up in fury.
And the people who stood bye and encouraged it with giving props to the mods for administering punishment share the blame
And the people who stood on the side and said nothing share the blame
And the people w ho thought the manager of the site suspending people to improve his mental health and said nothing because its >mikes hose"....SHARE THE BLAME
And the people when hearing the wiz's view about shaming, who said nothing....share the blame
But one person that doesnt share the blame is lil ole me..who posts on this site..away from the tumult, because I havent had the ability for years to post there. Lil ole me who has talked about the need for management not to jump everytime someone calls for a punishment, or everytime they see an opportunity to punish the right person.
People on this site arent whining and complaining that someone used the "f" word....or someone was insulting. That happened when I first got here and kj and mc threw a fit and were not listened too...and they learned that the wov tactics dont work here. It seems the admin here doesnt need to inflict shame, or punishment in order to feel good. He lets us give opinions and talk frankly sometimes using words that gamblers and other adults use in social sotuations without the "gotcha" angle.
So mission got caught up in a "gotcha" situation......and to the wiz, he like everyone else is expendable . Bye bye MISSION the mod.
Am I happy about that? Nope. If he enjoyed working for free like that.......who am i to begrudge someone finding joy.
He tells me to shut up......but there are plenty of others he could say that to on wov. But then he would be involved in another series of "gotcha" events. He says its none of my business that the wiz sold the business for alot of money. Except the wiz made it my business by asking for money while this was being negotiated, and even having the nerve to ask why one wouldnt give. And then not even first offering to give back the money till someone on the thread said WTF. Only then did he offer to either give it back or donate to charity. So yeah its my business.
And still the mods didnt even get a thank you card with a 2 dollar keychain from walmart.
But its ok to tell me to shut up....over here i dont need a pound of flesh, over here i dont need to see his name on a suspension list so I can feel all warm and fuzzy, over here I can handle frank and even emotional conversation.....without punishment.
But on the other site its all about shame, punishment, gotcha moments....and the people there both mods and members bathe in the glow that culture provides.
I think the worst part of the whole thing is that the Wizard says he suspected that WoN was SaP but didn't have enough proof to ban WoN because he wasn't sure that he was SaP. However this goes on well over a year and it takes me to bust his balls hard enough that he says ok I have to ban WoN now because I banned Monet... what a bunch of lying bologna in my opinion.