Wonder Four Progressive

Hi. Have you guys seen the wonder four slot machines with a small progressive on each of the four games and a bigger progressive that applies to all games? I think they are aristocrat machines. I'm thinking the game specific progressives are ripe for the picking when they climb to about $400. I've never seen one get up to $500...

You can play up to four games at once, fifty cents a game... so $2 a spin. When you go into a bonus game, you spin a wheel and you could win a progressive on that spin, you could get super free games, or you could get normal free games.

I've pulled down a couple of the game specific progressives now, and each of them have been at a profit. I'm thinking the entry point may be less than $400... One was on wicked wings and the other was the pelican game (whatever that one is called)

I've not bothered to calculate the meter. Maybe I should? Maybe I've just been lucky?

I'm wondering if anyone else has ever messed with these machines.

Thanks

There's a couple different ones of these. One has Wicked Winnings 2, Buffalo Deluxe, Wild Panda and I forget the other one. Another has Buffalo Gold, Pelican Pete, Miss Kitty something and Timberwolf Deluxe.
There could be others - those are just the ones I can think of.

They have huge win potential. At one casino I saw a gal winning over $20K on the super games on the Buffalo Gold at a $4 something bet.
I've gotten the game specific progressives a few times but never the grand. The only grand win I ever saw personally the fellow was betting $8 and hitting the button like a crazy person. The game progressives I've won have all been in the $200 some to low $300 range. Any time I've played one where it's been higher - like mid-$300s - I've never hit it and it always seems like the machine isn't paying as well on regular wins. I don't think I've ever seen one as high as $400.

I'm not an AP - I just go to play a while for entertainment - but these are pretty good for playing a while and leaving with a small profit or at worst not losing too much while running up a lot of coin in.

My observations for what they are worth. Obviously they are higher hold games, probably mid 80's so you really have to think you have an advantage before playing. I have seen the top award capped at $5000 and I know of one casino that has multiples that have been there for a while. Do you have to bet max to win that? Not sure but at up to $12 a spin not sure how it can be an advantage. And on the smaller 4 do we know if your odds increase with max bet? I personally don't see them as a play under $400 and you don't see many of them. Again hard to tell if that is even the break even number.

As for the regular bonus, unless you get the super bonus, your winnings wont even match your bet at times. And as someone posted above, any slot that pays $20K on a $4 bet bonus is holding a lot of players money to get to that point.

Again, just my observations.

I think the casino matters and the bet level. I was exploring another casino and found one of the game specific jackpots at $600. I noticed on that game, the minimum was $2.40 to play all three games, not the normal $2 minimum to play all four. I only had 45 minutes and did not take this prise down. I was able to run $1,250 coin in chasing it, which equated to a $300 loss.

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Originally Posted by Prozema

I think the casino matters and the bet level. I was exploring another casino and found one of the game specific jackpots at $600. I noticed on that game, the minimum was $2.40 to play all three games, not the normal $2 minimum to play all four. I only had 45 minutes and did not take this prise down. I was able to run $1,250 coin in chasing it, which equated to a $300 loss.

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The version that has Buffalo Gold has games on it that cost different amounts to play. Depending on what combination of games you pick the bet amount can vary but I don't think you can get as low as $2 even, it's $2.20 maybe?
The version that has Wicked Winnings 2 and Buffalo Deluxe on it - the bet amounts are the same regardless of what games you pick.
There are other variants also I think that may vary also.

Hmm... Same machine on the other side of the isle has a $2 minimum to spin all four games... This one was $2.40. like I suspected, the house configuration on the game matters.

Another thought... If I ran $1200 through and it kept 300, that implies a hold of 25%. I think that means the progressives should to be in the neighborhood of a 10 to 15% of the games total return given this very small sample. I'm assuming a 85 - 90% total return (base game + progressives).


So where do I go next?

It seems they almost always hit in the 300s, so if that is about the 12% mark, then a minor in the 600s would be 24 or 25% of the return... Add that to the 75% returned in the base game and I'm still just under 100%.

I think I just convinced myself that this is not a play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prozema

Hmm... Same machine on the other side of the isle has a $2 minimum to spin all four games... This one was $2.40. like I suspected, the house configuration on the game matters.

Another thought... If I ran $1200 through and it kept 300, that implies a hold of 25%. I think that means the progressives should to be in the neighborhood of a 10 to 15% of the games total return given this very small sample. I'm assuming a 85 - 90% total return (base game + progressives).


So where do I go next?

It seems they almost always hit in the 300s, so if that is about the 12% mark, then a minor in the 600s would be 24 or 25% of the return... Add that to the 75% returned in the base game and I'm still just under 100%.

I think I just convinced myself that this is not a play.

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If it was the one that has the games that cost different amounts (the version with Buffalo Gold), then the amounts showing on the buttons are the amounts for the games as set by the last person that played the game. Like on that one if its set to 4 Buffalo Gold I think the min bet is $2.40, but with other games the bet was lower, with amounts in between if you played a mix of the different games.

I don't think they're a play in the AP sense for the progressives. I'm not an AP but based on the stuff I read here. They aren't must hits and my experience is that they hit all over the place. I never chase them - I might pick what games I'm playing based on how high one or the other is, and if I get it great. But these games are decent for running up coin in usually - not always but usually you can figure it out within a few $20s and walk away if they aren't cooperating - with the occasional big hit of actually winning the progressive.

I think seeing Monet post pics of himself knocking down the progressives on the 7s games inspired me to try.

I was playing 4 buffalo gold's... Good call on the base bet level.

Double confirmation... This machine sucks even with a nice game specific minor and a maxed out major. I'm throwing it in the same pile as the rice bowl Chinese games that fill up with coins.

Thanks for pointing this game out. I'll do some work on it.

Thanks. I'd appreciate another option.

Here is a WOV thread on the topic.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...jackpot-wheel/

I found the $2 to $10 version of the game but I also found a $1 to $5 version. That's the one I played. Screenshots below. The meter runs at 1%. The first picture is when I started the play; there was $166.25 in the meter. The second screenshot shows the meter when I quit playing at $178.91. So I put $12.66 in the meter. That's 1% of $1266 so at $1 a spin I made 1266 spins.

I got dropped for $128.38. And 128.38/1266 means I got dropped for 10.14%. That's an 89.86% payback without hitting the Coyote Queen Jackpot. This is a pretty small sample space. About 5000 spins will tell a better story. I'll keep adding to the sample space as I get the time.

I caught the Wheel Feature 27 times. That's an average of every 47 spins. In wheel mode I caught the Free Games 24 times and the Super Free Games 3 times.

The whole thing comes down to the average cost to collect the meter and that has yet to be determined.

PS: The rules screen says the payscale is multipied by the increased bet except for the jackpots. There is nothing in the rules that says an increased bet gives a better chance of hitting the jackpots. A $1 bet puts one penny in the meter, a $5 bet puts 5 cents in the meter. That is what makes this game potentially exploitable. A 1% meter on line games usually never goes positive but $5 bettors can jack the meter way up to where a $1 bettor can potentially have an edge. We'll see what happens.

I noticed the same thing with the meters... Big bets move them up quickly, so I'm thinking if there is a play here it would be to bet minimum on all four games at once.

Side note... On the machines near me, the lower progressives reset to $200. Clearly there are different configuration / variations of wonder four.

I've never seen the Wonder 4 type in mickey's pictures.

I think there are numerous configurations and also I suspect different settings. Reading that link above from WOV, I have to say I have never seen a game specific progressive much over $400, whereas some on there are mentioning ones that are $600-$800.
I've won many of these on the type with Buffalo Gold as well as the type with Wicked Winnings 2 and I think the biggest one I've won was $380ish? Most have been mid $200s, a couple low $300s.
So the advantage might depend on what's normal high in the casino you're playing at, so you'd just need to observe the machines to figure that out.

I lost my ass spinning a buffalo gold with a $600+ the other day, but I was short on time. I went back a couple of hours later and someone had the machine locked up. My bad for starting something I couldn't finish.

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Originally Posted by pkspins

I've never seen the Wonder 4 type in mickey's pictures.

I think there are numerous configurations and also I suspect different settings. Reading that link above from WOV, I have to say I have never seen a game specific progressive much over $400, whereas some on there are mentioning ones that are $600-$800.
I've won many of these on the type with Buffalo Gold as well as the type with Wicked Winnings 2 and I think the biggest one I've won was $380ish? Most have been mid $200s, a couple low $300s.
So the advantage might depend on what's normal high in the casino you're playing at, so you'd just need to observe the machines to figure that out.

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pkspins, were you making the max bet or minimum bet or something in between?

Mickey, while a small sampling I think your results are accurate on the bonus. 8-9 times out of 10 you get just get the free spins which can at times return less than your original total bet.

What needs to be determined is does increased bets equal better odds on the jackpots. No clue but I am sure there is never an advantage on the overall 2-5k jackpot and even with an individual one at over $400 I’m not sure there is an advantage. Being so popular I would assume they are on the lower or lowest settings and without knowledge otherwise, you should play assuming that.

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Originally Posted by The Boz

Mickey, while a small sampling I think your results are accurate on the bonus. 8-9 times out of 10 you get just get the free spins which can at times return less than your original total bet.

What needs to be determined is does increased bets equal better odds on the jackpots. No clue but I am sure there is never an advantage on the overall 2-5k jackpot and even with an individual one at over $400 I’m not sure there is an advantage. Being so popular I would assume they are on the lower or lowest settings and without knowledge otherwise, you should play assuming that.

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It looks like pkspins has a lot of experience playing this game. That's why I'm curious as to her bet size in relation to the max bet. I don't mind dropping a little money to determine if there is a possible edge to be gained. I've done it many times. Most don't pan out but some do. I'll put in another session this evening and add to the sample space.

I'm familiar with keno progressives in Montana where the minimum bet to qualify for the meter is just 50 cents but you can bet up to $2. The payscale multiplies out but the meter doesn't. Some of these games have 4% meters on them. A 50 cent bet puts 2 cents per game in the meter but a $2 bet puts 10 cents per game in the meter.

The $2 bettors hammer the meter up so high that when I come in behind them I'm getting 10%, 12%, even 15% edges. At 1500+ games per hour, even though the bet is just 50 cents, I have a huge hourly rate on these plays. Wonder 4, at least for now, has the same potential. It will all come out in the wash as my sample space grows. And I get the cheap version of the game to do it on.

Oh, and the Grand Jackpot is of no concern to me. It's whether or not those smaller jackpots create an edge.

The one with Buffalo Gold is called Wonder 4 Wonder Wheel (thank you Youtube). That one has 5 bet levels with the lowest being $2-$2.40 depending on what games you pick of the 4 available. Most of my play is at the lower 2 levels. I usually start at $4-ish then go down to $2ish or up to $4ish depending on how it's paying etc. I also change games a lot. I've avoided the highest two bet levels - $8ish and $12 - because the few times I tried this plus the numerous more times I've been next to someone playing at this level.

The one with Wicked Winnings 2 is called Wonder 4 Jackpots and on that one I have probably played most at $10 or $8. I usually start at $10 and work my way down depending on if it's paying or not.

I have not seen the one Mickey posted ever. I do not know the base games on that one so I am not sure how they pay. I'm not sure I'd like to play that one because of the base games. But I don't know them either. Some Aristocrat slots can give nice huge wins but it's a lot of nothing in between, whereas at least the ones or some of the ones on Jackpots or Wonder Wheel spread the wins out.

These are the updated stats are for the $1 to $5 game called Coyote Queen where I'm making the minimum bet.

2798 spins at $1 a spin.
The cost is $334

334/2798 = a drop of 11.9%

Number of times I caught the wheel = 57

2798/57 = an average of every 49 spins.

This is equivalent to being stuck $668 on a $2 game on 2798 spins without hitting a jackpot. I think this game is designed to get people to chase the high meter.

Thanks Mickey. That's the same place I landed. It's like chasing a rice bowl full of coins on the Chinese themed slots.