The crumbling Malls

Malls aren crumbling before our eyes,

The anchor stoes like sears, macys and JCpenny are struggling mightily .

Just recently Brookstone filed for bankruptcy(even though their big competition Sharper Image failed years ago. They were always worth a stop for me when I was at the mall..along with the old time record stores(sam goody)

the chessecake factory, mostly a mall store..is struggling as well.

a multitude of clothing boutique type stores are going under

in 10 years without the anchors.....will the stores fall like dominos?

Look on the bright side: with a bit of elbow grease and a few public dollars thrown at them the malls will provide new housing for the homeless.

a couple years ago in reno on virginia, they leveled a small indoor mall. There is another large mall with sears, macys and JCPENNY anchoring the mall. Sears is almost dead, and I dont see any other department store chains expanding their storebase. So that is going to be empty. Jcpenny can last a few more years.

But the millenials arent in to going to stores and trying things on. Its too much of a hassle.

what you miss out on from online is the real sales when a store is down t their last couple items, or just 1 left, and they want to get rid of it so new stuff can replace it. JCP at the mall in reno has a section of clothing that is 80-90 pernce off for womens clothes. But its not just clothing...its anything that needs to be sold out.

Heck safeway a month ago has an item called "mixations".....4 fruit cups of applesauce mixed with other fruit. It was being discontinued...so they dropped the price from 399 to 1.40 plus they had a 1 dollar off coupon from the mfgr hanging on the shelf for us to take..making the final price 40 cents. On the way home from reno we stopped off at 3 safeways just off the highway and ended up cleaning them all out. we got 40 packages for 16 dollars....You dont get that on the internet.

you can get tools at lowes that are being discontinued where they have only 1 or 2 left and they need shelf space, so they throw it on a discount table.

the fun of buying something you can hold in your hand is fading away.

I can be the old timer saying" yeah I remember the days where Iused to buy stuff and actually hold it in my hand and look at it first." as wide eyed grand children say whoaa

They can turn them into casinos:
https://triblive.com/local/westmorel...tmoreland-mall

Everything is change and adaptation.

Stores like Kohl's, TJMaxx and Marshall's are all kicking ass.

The main reason is because most locations are newer, so they're able to, "Right size," their locations to fit the market demand. The retail footprint of the mall anchors is simply too large, but it's not like there's anything they can do about it, they're already where they are. The other reason stores such as that are doing so well is because of how quickly they turnover inventory. The main focus is just to sell it fast rather than having items sit on the floor for several months, so they get it from the manufacturers and deeply discount it (compared to other stores or past prices) in order to move it quickly.

Many orders for these types of stores actually come from orders that were originally meant to go to locations that had since announced they were closing. That enables such stores to actually get the inventory at a discount. Believe it or not, the closure of the, "Big," retail stores will actually be bad for them once they are all gone.

They also buy fashion lines from the previous year rather than the newest thing. These aren't, "Knock-offs," mind you, or damaged goods, they are just a year behind on the fashion calendar...and if you're anything like me, you really don't give a sweet fuck about being up to the minute on fashion. I really don't care if the T-Shirt design I'm wearing, or Hawaiian button-up, first hit the market a year ago.

One thing that Kohl's, in particular, does really well is deliver a knockout punch to other retailers. They tend to position themselves in plazas and smaller strip malls within five to ten miles of struggling malls that not only gives physical customers an alternative, but also kind of cuts some of them off from the mall. The effect is kind of like a deathblow because some customers will just want to go to the closest place, while others will actually prefer Kohl's. Because of quick merchandise turnaround, you're actually going to see more new stuff every time you go into one of these stores as compared to somewhere else.

In short, there's still a demand for physical shopping in many areas, it's just that your traditional, "Anchor stores," are doing a piss poor job of marketing to the demand.

Another problem the retail giants have (in addition to long-term purchase contracts) when it comes to having any hope of changing the business model is that they simply don't have the capacity to take on much, if any, more debt. Who is going to give Sears or Macy's a loan to completely overhaul inventory!?

Also, when it comes to the malls, death begets death. When one anchor closes, simple, the mall becomes less attractive as a whole. The smaller stores and other locations within the mall that counted on feeder traffic from the anchor (little snack places, nail salons, hair stylists, novelty stores...etc) start feeling the pinch of the reduced foot traffic and some of those places may choose not to renew their leases. Those places then close, again, making the mall less attractive on the whole. On and on and on you go until there is not a mall there anymore.

The only areas, I believe, where individual malls are still doing well tend to have one, or both, of these two things:

1.) High concentrations of old(ish) people living in the area. (MUCH prefer physical stores)

2.) A major retail super store, such as Target, attached or VERY close to the mall.

Good analysis, Mission.

As it happens I recently was in a Kohl's for the first time; I'd wondered how they were able to get traction in this internet sales era.

Now I have an idea why.

Thanks, MisterV!

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Originally Posted by LarryS

a couple years ago in reno on virginia, they leveled a small indoor mall. There is another large mall with sears, macys and JCPENNY anchoring the mall. Sears is almost dead, and I dont see any other department store chains expanding their storebase. So that is going to be empty. Jcpenny can last a few more years.

But the millenials arent in to going to stores and trying things on. Its too much of a hassle.

what you miss out on from online is the real sales when a store is down t their last couple items, or just 1 left, and they want to get rid of it so new stuff can replace it. JCP at the mall in reno has a section of clothing that is 80-90 pernce off for womens clothes. But its not just clothing...its anything that needs to be sold out.

Heck safeway a month ago has an item called "mixations".....4 fruit cups of applesauce mixed with other fruit. It was being discontinued...so they dropped the price from 399 to 1.40 plus they had a 1 dollar off coupon from the mfgr hanging on the shelf for us to take..making the final price 40 cents. On the way home from reno we stopped off at 3 safeways just off the highway and ended up cleaning them all out. we got 40 packages for 16 dollars....You dont get that on the internet.

you can get tools at lowes that are being discontinued where they have only 1 or 2 left and they need shelf space, so they throw it on a discount table.

the fun of buying something you can hold in your hand is fading away.

I can be the old timer saying" yeah I remember the days where Iused to buy stuff and actually hold it in my hand and look at it first." as wide eyed grand children say whoaa

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They're really having a lot of trouble at the food court of the Meadowood Mall ("another large mall"). The McDonald's closed, and three of the other food court places closed such as the seafood place with the over-priced entrees. They opened another Sbarro's in the same spot that had one some years earlier - which makes no sense.

Herberger's was like an upscale J.C. Penney's. They are liquidating which will leave some big holes in Montana malls.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

They're really having a lot of trouble at the food court of the Meadowood Mall ("another large mall"). The McDonald's closed, and three of the other food court places closed such as the seafood place with the over-priced entrees. They opened another Sbarro's in the same spot that had one some years earlier - which makes no sense.

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It looks like a place called Pizza Repubblica closed along with the other few eateries that you were talking about, so maybe Sbarro figured that with the reduced number of eateries they could do okay there. Do you know if the Pizza Repubblica was there the first time Sbarro was? I couldn't find that out from looking online.

Capitol Hill Mall in Helena, Montana has only one business left in it, Lucky Lil's Casino. LOL!

That's pretty neat, looks like it's getting demolished later this year, though, despite having signed a three-year lease earlier this year. Apparently, the company is still interested in a spot in the new development that will be going up.

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Originally Posted by Mission146

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Originally Posted by tableplay

They're really having a lot of trouble at the food court of the Meadowood Mall ("another large mall"). The McDonald's closed, and three of the other food court places closed such as the seafood place with the over-priced entrees. They opened another Sbarro's in the same spot that had one some years earlier - which makes no sense.

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It looks like a place called Pizza Repubblica closed along with the other few eateries that you were talking about, so maybe Sbarro figured that with the reduced number of eateries they could do okay there. Do you know if the Pizza Repubblica was there the first time Sbarro was? I couldn't find that out from looking online.

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I think Pizza Repubblica replaced the Sbarro and now Sbarro has replaced it or whatever pizza place took its place (turnabout is fair play). What's for certain is that there was only one pizza place at the food court at any given time. I like Sbarro's pizza slices, but I guess other people had things they preferred over it at the food court.

Amazon is a monster that can't be beat. Bezos is ahead of the game.

Amazon just bought Whole Foods and they are operating some other physical stores now. Amazon's physical stores have no cashiers. Their Prime card or phone is scanned, then the customer just picks out whatever they want and leaves. Everything in their basket or bag has been scanned with cameras all over the store. Amazing. In some places on some items they are doing same day delivery for a charge.

I don't like that one corporation has such a high % of retail sales but I give credit where credit is due.

Malls and small businesses are dying because of Amazon. This will have a domino effect on REITs and real estate prices. A wave of bankruptcies is coming. I know of one small business that is about to file BK because Amazon is now selling it's merchandise.

I was a supervisor at Borders Books when Amazon put them out of business.
Before Amazon Borders had over 1200 stores. Borders had stores in London and Singapore. They were once a powerhouse. Amazon's first main venture was in books. Later they expanded into virtually everything.

Border upper management was to blame. They didn't adjust to the changing environment. It was sad watching them slowly get ground down to nothing.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Malls and small businesses are dying because of Amazon. This will have a domino effect on REITs and real estate prices. A wave of bankruptcies is coming. I know of one small business that is about to file BK because Amazon is now selling it's merchandise.

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Alan, internet commerce accounts for only 10% of all sales transactions. The remainder are brick and mortar. So the main reason malls are dying is because people are just tapped out. So Amazon factors in a little bit for sure, but the bigger story is the lessening of discretionary money.

People of all ages used to go to malls for social reasons also, but with the advent of i-phones, tablets and video games they don't have to go to malls to interact with and meet others.

Blame the damned internet.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Alan, internet commerce accounts for only 10% of all sales transactions. bigger

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Internet sales grew to 13% in 2017 (30% more than what you stated) and accounted for 49% of the growth. The growth rate of internet sales last year was 16% the highest growth rate since 2011.
That would mean total sales in e-commerce in 2017 experienced a marked increase from 11.6% in 2016.

If a store loses 4% of its business, particularly a large business, it may seem like a small number but actually it's a tremendous loss.
Sears is probably then next huge chain to surrender. There have been rumors about them completely disappearing for years. They're very close to bankruptcy.





Right now, one of the main things propping up brick and mortar store sales is that as Christmas gets closer and closer consumers fear that something will go wrong with the delivery of their internet purchase and so they buy from a physical store. If delivery systems continue to improve and that fear lessens there will be more pain for brick and mortar.




https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/a...ommerce-sales/

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Alan, internet commerce accounts for only 10% of all sales transactions. bigger

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Internet sales grew to 13% in 2017 (30% more than what you stated) and accounted for 49% of the growth. The growth rate of internet sales last year was 16% the highest growth rate since 2011.
That would mean total sales in e-commerce in 2017 experienced a marked increase from 11.6% in 2016.

If a store loses 4% of its business, particularly a large business, it may seem like a small number but actually it's a tremendous loss.
Sears is probably then next huge chain to surrender. There have been rumors about them completely disappearing for years. They're very close to bankruptcy.





Right now, one of the main things propping up brick and mortar store sales is that as Christmas gets closer and closer consumers fear that something will go wrong with the delivery of their internet purchase and so they buy from a physical store. If delivery systems continue to improve and that fear lessens there will be more pain for brick and mortar.




https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/a...ommerce-sales/

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https://www.businessinsider.com/ecom...-charts-2018-5 (from an article dated May 29th 2018 entitled "Online sales still account for less than 10% of all retail sales")
relevant excerpt:
"In fact, the first and only time e-commerce accounted for more than 10% of total retail sales was at the very end of 2017 — if it follows its historical pattern, it should be back at those levels some time this year. "

B&M will always have the niche for impulse purchases because you can have it in your hand and start using it now. But for big ticket items that need to be delivered anyway, there is no reason to buy them B&M.

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Malls and small businesses are dying because of Amazon. This will have a domino effect on REITs and real estate prices. A wave of bankruptcies is coming. I know of one small business that is about to file BK because Amazon is now selling it's merchandise.

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Alan, internet commerce accounts for only 10% of all sales transactions. The remainder are brick and mortar. So the main reason malls are dying is because people are just tapped out. So Amazon factors in a little bit for sure, but the bigger story is the lessening of discretionary money.

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That ten percent wipes out the profit of brick and mortar stores.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Malls and small businesses are dying because of Amazon. This will have a domino effect on REITs and real estate prices. A wave of bankruptcies is coming. I know of one small business that is about to file BK because Amazon is now selling it's merchandise.

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Alan, internet commerce accounts for only 10% of all sales transactions. The remainder are brick and mortar. So the main reason malls are dying is because people are just tapped out. So Amazon factors in a little bit for sure, but the bigger story is the lessening of discretionary money.

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That ten percent wipes out the profit of brick and mortar stores.

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Back it up with a source.

Back up your claim about less discretionary money. I thought the economy was booming?

http://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Alan, internet commerce accounts for only 10% of all sales transactions. bigger

---

Internet sales grew to 13% in 2017 (30% more than what you stated) and accounted for 49% of the growth. The growth rate of internet sales last year was 16% the highest growth rate since 2011.
That would mean total sales in e-commerce in 2017 experienced a marked increase from 11.6% in 2016.

If a store loses 4% of its business, particularly a large business, it may seem like a small number but actually it's a tremendous loss.
Sears is probably then next huge chain to surrender. There have been rumors about them completely disappearing for years. They're very close to bankruptcy.





Right now, one of the main things propping up brick and mortar store sales is that as Christmas gets closer and closer consumers fear that something will go wrong with the delivery of their internet purchase and so they buy from a physical store. If delivery systems continue to improve and that fear lessens there will be more pain for brick and mortar.




https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/a...ommerce-sales/

---

https://www.businessinsider.com/ecom...-charts-2018-5 (from an article dated May 29th 2018 entitled "Online sales still account for less than 10% of all retail sales")
relevant excerpt:
"In fact, the first and only time e-commerce accounted for more than 10% of total retail sales was at the very end of 2017 — if it follows its historical pattern, it should be back at those levels some time this year. "

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The same source that tableplay just quoted says this :


"Forrester predicts that online sales will account for 17% of all US retail sales by 2022, up from a projected 12.7% in 2017, according to Forrester's new Online Retail Forecast as cited by Digital Commerce 360. The report also expects US online sales to grow 13% YoY in 2017, which is five times faster than projected offline sales growth, and in line with the National Retail Federation's estimates."


https://www.businessinsider.com/e-co...-amazon-2017-8

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Half Smoke

Internet sales grew to 13% in 2017 (30% more than what you stated) and accounted for 49% of the growth. The growth rate of internet sales last year was 16% the highest growth rate since 2011.
That would mean total sales in e-commerce in 2017 experienced a marked increase from 11.6% in 2016.

If a store loses 4% of its business, particularly a large business, it may seem like a small number but actually it's a tremendous loss.
Sears is probably then next huge chain to surrender. There have been rumors about them completely disappearing for years. They're very close to bankruptcy.





Right now, one of the main things propping up brick and mortar store sales is that as Christmas gets closer and closer consumers fear that something will go wrong with the delivery of their internet purchase and so they buy from a physical store. If delivery systems continue to improve and that fear lessens there will be more pain for brick and mortar.




https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/a...ommerce-sales/

---

https://www.businessinsider.com/ecom...-charts-2018-5 (from an article dated May 29th 2018 entitled "Online sales still account for less than 10% of all retail sales")
relevant excerpt:
"In fact, the first and only time e-commerce accounted for more than 10% of total retail sales was at the very end of 2017 — if it follows its historical pattern, it should be back at those levels some time this year. "

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The same source that tableplay just quoted says this :


"Forrester predicts that online sales will account for 17% of all US retail sales by 2022, up from a projected 12.7% in 2017, according to Forrester's new Online Retail Forecast as cited by Digital Commerce 360. The report also expects US online sales to grow 13% YoY in 2017, which is five times faster than projected offline sales growth, and in line with the National Retail Federation's estimates."


https://www.businessinsider.com/e-co...-amazon-2017-8

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But the malls are dying now at the current e-commerce percentage (when it is not that big of a factor at just 10%). It will be worse later when e-commerce becomes more of a factor.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Back up your claim about less discretionary money. I thought the economy was booming?

http://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product

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When did I say the economy was booming ? 42M Americans are on food stamps. Anyhow I guess you are not going to provide support that the e-commerce sales are wiping out B&M profits.