Chip inventory question

I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't want to run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's card information? Or does a casino just post a flyer or sign on their walls to notify everyone?

These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me in this area can chime in. There are obvious benefits to having an inventory especially if you're playing blackjack. With my playing style and short sessions, I could actually end up playing 95% of the time without the pit ever noticing me if I could just take my chips from my pocket, jump in when it's positive after backcounting and jump out when it's neutral or negative and walk away. Of course if it's a big win, it would be much harder because that means lots of cheques play calls from the dealer and me being at the table a long time for the pit to know im there. Nonetheless, I'm sick of buying in, although if done right, buying in can also provide some cover if you do it right with small amounts, but I'm sick of attracting attention from the pit on buy ins.

If anyone could help with all of this, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by ZenKinG

I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's cards or just a public notice on their walls? I play unrated, so how would I be notified?

These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable then me in this area can chime in.

Thanks in advance.

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Wait a second... haven't you been out here a year now? Didn't you ask this months ago? Why did you not start keeping an inventory from day one? I see no reason for you to start up one now since you don't really care to because if you wanted one you would already have one.

I don't really think you are paranoid. I think you are a bit stubborn and you are going to do what you want how you want. Have you actually ever listened to anyone on these boards? I mean did it actually change your mind and make you act differently? I don't think so... you are going to do what you want to do no matter what so get to doing what it is that you do!

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Originally Posted by ZenKinG

I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't want to run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's card information? Or does a casino just post a flyer or sign on their walls to notify everyone?

These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me in this area can chime in. There are obvious benefits to having an inventory especially if you're playing blackjack. With my playing style and short sessions, I could actually end up playing 95% of the time without the pit ever noticing me if I could just take my chips from my pocket, jump in when it's positive after backcounting and jump out when it's neutral or negative and walk away. Of course if it's a big win, it would be much harder because that means lots of cheques play calls from the dealer and me being at the table a long time for the pit to know im there. Nonetheless, I'm sick of buying in, although if done right, buying in can also provide some cover if you do it right with small amounts, but I'm sick of attracting attention from the pit on buy ins.

If anyone could help with all of this, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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ZK, the one member here who could give you a comprehensive answer is Kewlj. But he got tired of the flaming from the anti AP crowd here and is not currently posting.

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Originally Posted by monet

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Originally Posted by ZenKinG

I have several questions that hopefully people on here can help me out with who have been in this city longer than I have and can shed some advice on this topic.

So.. I want to begin to keep a chip inventory, but my first question and probably the most important question is, how long can I hold these chips for without having any possibility of a casino saying they have no proof of me playing and refuse to cash out my chips? Or does this only happen at 1k yellow chips and higher? Would $500 purple chips ever cause a possibility of a chip confiscation if I tried cashing it out months later and they had no proof of me playing? Remember I play unrated, so what can actually happen? I don't run into a case such as that one guy Nolan Dolla who tried cashing out a 5k chip at MGM at a later date, but MGM confiscated it and didn't cash him out because they had no proof of him playing.

Also how would I be notified if a casino decideds to change out their chips? Do I lose the ability to ever cash them out if I don't do it within the designated time frame once they announce it? How does a casino notify the players anyway? Is it through their player's cards or just a public notice on their walls? I play unrated, so how would I be notified?

These are the questions as to why I've never kept a chip inventory. As everyone on these forums already know, I'm a very paranoid and sketpical person and the last thing I need is a casino that refuses to cash out my chips that I've held for months. Am I just spinning my wheels and there's nothing to worry about? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable then me in this area can chime in.

Thanks in advance.

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Wait a second... haven't you been out here a year now? Didn't you ask this months ago? Why did you not start keeping an inventory from day one? I see no reason for you to start up one now since you don't really care to because if you wanted one you would already have one.

I don't really think you are paranoid. I think you are a bit stubborn and you are going to do what you want how you want. Have you actually ever listened to anyone on these boards? I mean did it actually change your mind and make you act differently? I don't think so... you are going to do what you want to do no matter what so get to doing what it is that you do!

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I edited my post before you replied and maybe that will answer some of your questions. As to why I never did it is like I said, I've been worried about the possibility of a casino taking my chips a month or months down the road especially since I play unrated.

You don't keep a chip inventory to cash them later. You do it too avoid a cash buy in at the tables. It's best to only keep blacks ($100) and lower.

Jbjb is correct. You run a risk with any large chips. I can give you lots of examples. Following the theft at Bellagio of $25,000 chips all of their $25k chips were canceled. Players had six months if I recall to exchange their chips. Players in the poker room had no trouble because they were known. Others did have a problem.

Chips can be canceled immediately and without notice but you have six months to cash or exchange them.

Once the redemption period ends you have a collectible for ebay.

Edited to update:

I checked the NGC regulations. You have 120 days to redeem canceled chips, that's four months and not six.

The casino must post notices that chips have been canceled and they must run ads in two general circulation newspapers. I remember the Bellagio ad in the LVRJ following the craps table theft.

Didn't the thiefs try to fence the purloined chips, and didn't the fence get nailed?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

ZK, the one member here who could give you a comprehensive answer is Kewlj. But he got tired of the flaming from the anti AP crowd here and is not currently posting.

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And I am still tired of the flaming and trolling and the direction this site continues to head, but I am happy to share my thoughts with ZK and anyone else who may come along and find them useful. (that is why I am responding publicly).

The short answer has already been posted by jbjb. But I want to expand just a bit based on my experiences and what I do. I see three benefits to a chip inventory.

1.) you avoid cashing in right after playing and that head shot from the camera at the cashiers cage. This is usually the casino's best opportunity to get a good head/face shot. Many entries in OSN that include a picture, the picture was taken at the cage.

2.) As jbjb mentioned, having chips in hand allows you to enter the game without the buy-in. You have eliminated the first player interaction with the pit. If it is a fairly busy time and the pit people are busy, you may get in and out of the game without any interaction with pit. I can't begin to tell you how that increases longevity.

3.) Related to #2, you can exit without coloring up, the second step that may allow you to avoid all interaction with pit.


Now chip inventory is more advantageous at some places that others. Small casinos for example, tend to watch greens and blacks like the bigger stores watch purple and above, so chip inventory is a waste of time at any really small or sweaty stores in your rotation.

I also don't bother with chip inventories at the "secondary" stores in my rotation, those that I only play once a month or so. I focus on the mid to bigger casinos in my primary rotation.


Managing a chip inventory, takes a little practice. You don't need but a few hundred in chips (at the level you and I play). A small handful of green and a few blacks works nicely. If you lose that and the count is positive and you need to buy in for cash, that's ok. At that point you will be betting bigger anyway and likely be noticed with or without a chip inventory. And buying in for cash at that point gives the appearance of chasing losses. I don't have anything larger than black in my chip inventory. Just enough to begin playing.

And finally, not coloring up, and then cashing out at the cage, allows you to break up cash outs at the cage, over days or weeks if necessary. This draws less attention and may avoid paperwork which in turn draw more attention. Keep your cash out at the cage small, under $2000 works nicely. And this is NOT structuring. You are not breaking up cash outs to avoid paperwork. You are doing it to avoid the attention that AP's generate in regards to the cat & mouse game we must play.

I disagree with KJ on this one. Nobody mentioned, maybe because it's so obvious, that all the casinos use their own chips good only at their casinos. Keeping an inventory of 15 different casino's chips that you regularly visit is a major pain in the ass not worth the trouble. If you're going to visit 4 different casinos in one day are you really going to carry 4 different casino's chips with you? Come on. Get serious. KJ also said this, "And finally, not coloring up, and then cashing out at the cage, allows you to break up cash outs at the cage, over days or weeks if necessary." Disagree with this also. If you have a bunch of greens the dealer is going to ask you to color up before you leave the table. If you say, no it might piss somebody off because that means he may have to to slow down to get a fill. Often saying no and stuffing them into your pockets is a terrible idea IMO.

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Didn't the thiefs try to fence the purloined chips, and didn't the fence get nailed?

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I don't know if there was a fence. I do know that Bellagio immediately canceled all $25k chips and it was well publicized. What fence would be that stupid?

The motorcycle thief was caught.

How do you win thousands of dollars at a time with green and black chips and avoiding the cage?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Didn't the thiefs try to fence the purloined chips, and didn't the fence get nailed?

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I don't know if there was a fence. I do know that Bellagio immediately canceled all $25k chips and it was well publicized. What fence would be that stupid?

The motorcycle thief was caught.

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The Bellagio Bandit who stole $25k chips from a craps table with a motorcycle helmet tried to fence off his chips on Two Plus Two Forums in 2011. His screen name was oceanspray25 and here is his post https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...3&postcount=99 and the 2+2 thread starting at page 4 (post 99) https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...75/index4.html

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

How do you win thousands of dollars at a time with green and black chips and avoiding the cage?

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Alan come on now. You KNOW you're gonna get accused of asking the tough questions once again, thereby affording kew the opportunity to jump up and down screaming, while claiming "that's just another anti-AP comment meant to flame!"

It also gives him a way out of answering....similar to the two-table fiasco.

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

How do you win thousands of dollars at a time with green and black chips and avoiding the cage?

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Alan come on now. You KNOW you're gonna get accused of asking the tough questions once again, thereby affording kew the opportunity to jump up and down screaming, while claiming "that's just another anti-AP comment meant to flame!"

It also gives him a way out of answering....similar to the two-table fiasco.

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You two clowns and your trolling games. You are going to make it out as if I said I play green and black betting limits. I said no such thing. I said that is what I keep in my inventory to allow me to enter a game avoiding the buy-in, which is the players first encounter with pit. I usually have a handful of blacks, which allows me to play as I begin to raise my bets during appropriate counts. And as I clearly stated but somehow you two didn't comprehend or didn't want to comprehend, I can always buy in for cash should I lose whatever chip inventory I entered with (and the additional chips in my pocket).

In addition Alan, please show me where I EVER stated I try to win thousands of dollars at a time. I average 70-75k a year from blackjack, playing 5-6 days a week, roughly 300 days a years. Do the math. I average about $1500 a day. And since my day is made up of 6-10 sessions...I average a couple hundred dollars a session. You will note that I italicized the word 'average'. I may have sessions with wins and losses of a couple thousand, but most session totals are in the hundreds....win or lose. And I may have days with wins and losses of 8-10k, occasionally more, but most days wins or losses are within a couple thousand dollars. I have specifically designed a plan of playing short sessions and moderate limits, to attempt keep session totals at an amount that draws less attention. It doesn't always work, but that is design.

And finally don't twist my words about "avoiding the cage". I said I avoid the cage immediately after playing and when I do cash out, I cash out smaller amounts to avoid attention, including phone calls to the pit to verify anything. I am quite sure everyone who wanted to understand what I was saying understood. Only you two clowns playing your trolling games, twisting everything said, because you have an agenda, pretend not to understand what I said. Just grow up and stop your retarded little games.

This was a courtesy response, but I won't do so anymore to anyone just playing trolling games. If I can benefit someone that has a genuine interest, I will, including legitimate questions, but I simply will not play your third grade games any longer.

I don't seem to be able to edit. :confused: Obviously above I said $1500 a day, when I meant $1500 a week.


** I wish I was pulling in $1500 a day. :)

Actually, I don't. I have to bankroll to play higher limits and earn a higher hourly rate. I chose not to. It's not that I don't want to earn more, but I play a level that is pretty well (in short bursts). My top priority is longevity. I don't want to be one of those "slash and burn" former MIT or other known players running bootcamps and such because they can't play much blackjack anymore. In the "shearer" vs "slaughter" debate, I am in the "shearer" camp.

Anyway, watch the haters jump all over a typo

Sorry kewlj, I didn't mean to challenge APs again but I keep remembering how you told us you lost $8800 in a day and then won it back plus a profit of several thousand and I knew you just didn't do it with blacks and greens and avoided the cage.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

In addition Alan, please show me where I EVER stated I try to win thousands of dollars at a time. I average 70-75k a year from blackjack, .

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Who cares? Want me to go into my sportsbets? No and I'm not going into my blackjack earnings. It's no ones business.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

playing 5-6 days a week, roughly 300 days a years. Do the math. I average about $1500 a week..

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Why does one need to conserve chips on just $1,500 a week? That's 3 pinks a week spread over how many casinos?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

And since my day is made up of 6-10 sessions...I average a couple hundred dollars a session. You will note that I italicized the word 'average'. ..

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What a bunch of crap! 6-10 sessions per day at $200 per sessions average is $1,200 to $2000 per day.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I may have sessions with wins and losses of a couple thousand, but most session totals are in the hundreds....win or lose. And I may have days with wins and losses of 8-10k, occasionally more, but most days wins or losses are within a couple thousand dollars. I have specifically designed a plan of playing short sessions and moderate limits, to attempt keep session totals at an amount that draws less attention. It doesn't always work, but that is design.
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Yes, losing an 8-10k chunck in a day would smart. So do something about it in pitch games. Way, way too much variance. I've been down that in sports bets in a month but never in blackjack. 20 sessions a week is all I want and provides all I need. Don't start spouting off about my income because I've never stated it.

Is this better for you Alan?

Moses, I just don't follow the points you made. They're too cryptic for me. Would you mind explaining some more? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Sorry kewlj, I didn't mean to challenge APs again but I keep remembering how you told us you lost $8800 in a day and then won it back plus a profit of several thousand and I knew you just didn't do it with blacks and greens and avoided the cage.

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Alan, Alan, Alan. I've heard KJ rant of losing $20k in a night. But let's go with your total of $8,800 in a day. At $200 per session average, that's 44 sessions, just to get back to even. What's wrong with this picture?

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Originally Posted by Moses

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Sorry kewlj, I didn't mean to challenge APs again but I keep remembering how you told us you lost $8800 in a day and then won it back plus a profit of several thousand and I knew you just didn't do it with blacks and greens and avoided the cage.

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Alan, Alan, Alan. I've heard KJ rant of losing $20k in a night. But let's go with your total of $8,800 in a day. At $200 per session average, that's 44 sessions, just to get back to even. What's wrong with this picture?

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I'm not sure what you're saying because I don't know and I don't pretend to know the lingo of the APs on this site. It took "forever" for me to understand what kewlj meant when he said he could count two tables (he has limitations) and it took forever for me to understand his self-created terminology about expected value. So I'm asking you to explain it so a dumb person like me can understand.

Frankly I'm surprised kewlj mentions sessions because for years Singer was criticized for talking about sessions... with the APs saying all gambling is just one session.

And there you have it....again. kew getting all worked up over the tough questions that he continues to be incapable of answering without dancing around with his predictable windbag spins. In fact, the more he babbles on, the more he proves what a phony he is.

And apparently unbeknownst to him, statements like "so I can increase my bets when the count is positive" not only undress him publicly--he shows how he has no knowledge that the computers upstairs are counting right along with him (and they do it at a six sigma rate) for the sole purpose of tossing players who are doing what he "claims" to do. Oh yeah, 300 days a year in multiple daily "short term sessions". And let's not forget how every "AP" ALWAYS has a bounce back tale after saying they lost a bundle. In other words, he claimed he was "due"!

Wise up.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

So I'm asking you to explain it so a dumb person like me can understand.
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Sorry Alan. I was joking by repeating your name. There is a saying. Numbers never lie. People do. KJs numbers reflect his lies. Bouncing around like a pinball with HiLo to make $70-$75k annually? Hmmm. I don't think so.

Now, Alan. Consider playing 20 sessions a week where you are the one in control. Game selection is key. Even then, winning 60% of the sessions is considered better than average according to sims. Suppose $300 is your upside for a win and your downside for a loss. IF, you go 12 wins 8 losses, that's $1,200 a week profit. Hindparts sitting on leather about 300 hands a day or about 15 years a week.

A horrible week would be 2 wins 18 losses. This would be a disaster of $4,800 in the red. It's never happened to me because I've learned to duck and make large bets count. However, I've had some 18-2 weeks. That's when you begin to worry about getting 86ed. So the next week, you spread to different shifts.

There is always some guy in the sportsbook boasting he had a big bet on the 17 point dog straight up after they won. But no one ever sees him buy or cash a ticket. I've wondered why people tell such large tales and/or continue to repeat the same ones over and over again.

Rob Singer seems to have a pretty good handle on bullshiters. Maybe he could explain it to me.:cool:

No BS from me. I've never had a profitable year in a casino even getting two $100k royals in one year -- both of them seeded with $2500 of free play.

Moses, the APs here don't have downside losses or stop losses nor do they quit when they've lost too much. You must understand that our APs including kewlj are accumulating expected value when they lose and that accumulated +EV will make them winners.

Losing $8800 doesn't matter because of all the accumulated +EV kewlj got that day. Ask him.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Moses, the APs here don't have downside losses or stop losses nor do they quit when they've lost too much. You must understand that our APs including kewlj are accumulating expected value when they lose and that accumulated +EV will make them winners.

Losing $8800 doesn't matter because of all the accumulated +EV kewlj got that day. Ask him.

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I know Alan. It's like there are two completely different games. The one that is played at the casino. And the one that is played amongst these AP forum pros.

I read a thread started by Midwest Player the other day. He wanted to quit playing early to secure a sizeable profit for his trip. However, the "cult" is in his head. So he kept playing and gave nearly all of it back.

I was in a session the other day and I was 1 green chip away from a win within casino tolerance. The phone already rang once. The pit boss then changed out the decks. This has a history of being a way for the pit boss to inform the dealer there is a counter AP playing. After that, you get reduced pen. The longer you play the more you etch yourself in that dealers memory. So big whup. I cashed out $18 shy of paying my quarterly tax bill with the days profits. I did not find another game to my liking that day. Point is, if "the cult" mentality was in my head, it could've spelled disaster.

Rob is spot on. You don't jump up and down with huge profit swings for very long. Why? Because once your money is lost it became their money. Now you have to win the same amount of their money back to break even.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Moses, the APs here don't have downside losses or stop losses nor do they quit when they've lost too much. You must understand that our APs including kewlj are accumulating expected value when they lose and that accumulated +EV will make them winners.

Losing $8800 doesn't matter because of all the accumulated +EV kewlj got that day. Ask him.

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If I'm playing a M. Stud game with knowledge of 3rd street, I'm playing the entire shift with that dealer. What I've won or lost during that time is irrelevant.

As for KJ, me or any other AP. We're making money in casinos and YOU aren't! So you tell me who's doing what right?????

Oops. I forgot. Include jbjb among those who never loses.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

If I'm playing a M. Stud game with knowledge of 3rd street, I'm playing the entire shift with that dealer. What I've won or lost during that time is irrelevant.

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YOUR time is what is relevent. No? We may or may not run out of money. We WILL run out of time.

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Originally Posted by Moses

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Originally Posted by jbjb

If I'm playing a M. Stud game with knowledge of 3rd street, I'm playing the entire shift with that dealer. What I've won or lost during that time is irrelevant.

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YOUR time is what is relevent. No? We may or may not run out of money. We WILL run out of time.

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It's the AP mantra: as long as I have an edge I will keep playing... unless I have to pee, take a dump, eat, sleep... because that edge makes me a winner. And if I'm not winning, I'm accumulating EV.

Yes....the claim of "banking ev" from their comfy armchairs does have a sort of "calming" effect. But what I enjoy most is how they claim the grocery stores and electric company accepts these phantom bucks as a form of payment....especially after claiming "it doesn't matter if I win or lose, what matters most is if I "have an edge on the game I'm playing!"

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Yes....the claim of "banking ev" from their comfy armchairs does have a sort of "calming" effect. But what I enjoy most is how they claim the grocery stores and electric company accepts these phantom bucks as a form of payment....especially after claiming "it doesn't matter if I win or lose, what matters most is if I "have an edge on the game I'm playing!"

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Yeah....I have no fucking clue how I pay my house bills, internet, food, phone, satellite service, etc., etc., etc.....

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Yes....the claim of "banking ev" from their comfy armchairs does have a sort of "calming" effect. But what I enjoy most is how they claim the grocery stores and electric company accepts these phantom bucks as a form of payment....especially after claiming "it doesn't matter if I win or lose, what matters most is if I "have an edge on the game I'm playing!"

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Yeah....I have no fucking clue how I pay my house bills, internet, food, phone, satellite service, etc., etc., etc.....

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We don't know either.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Yes....the claim of "banking ev" from their comfy armchairs does have a sort of "calming" effect. But what I enjoy most is how they claim the grocery stores and electric company accepts these phantom bucks as a form of payment....especially after claiming "it doesn't matter if I win or lose, what matters most is if I "have an edge on the game I'm playing!"

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Yeah....I have no fucking clue how I pay my house bills, internet, food, phone, satellite service, etc., etc., etc.....

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We don't know either.

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We know, however, that you don`t :rolleyes:...asswipe

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

It's the AP mantra: as long as I have an edge I will keep playing... unless I have to pee, take a dump, eat, sleep... because that edge makes me a winner. And if I'm not winning, I'm accumulating EV.

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The problem is our opponent wins by forfeit. No game. No EV. Win today. Play tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Yes....the claim of "banking ev" from their comfy armchairs does have a sort of "calming" effect. But what I enjoy most is how they claim the grocery stores and electric company accepts these phantom bucks as a form of payment....especially after claiming "it doesn't matter if I win or lose, what matters most is if I "have an edge on the game I'm playing!"

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Yeah....I have no fucking clue how I pay my house bills, internet, food, phone, satellite service, etc., etc., etc.....

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And neither does anyone else, since you're just another anonymous poster who, as a self-proclaimed ap, thinks their claims have to believed by all.

jbjb & kew....a pair that'll beat any STRAIGHT flush.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Sorry kewlj, I didn't mean to challenge APs again but I keep remembering how you told us you lost $8800 in a day and then won it back plus a profit of several thousand and I knew you just didn't do it with blacks and greens and avoided the cage.

---

Alan, Alan, Alan. I've heard KJ rant of losing $20k in a night. But let's go with your total of $8,800 in a day. At $200 per session average, that's 44 sessions, just to get back to even. What's wrong with this picture?

---

I'm not sure what you're saying because I don't know and I don't pretend to know the lingo of the APs on this site. It took "forever" for me to understand what kewlj meant when he said he could count two tables (he has limitations) and it took forever for me to understand his self-created terminology about expected value. So I'm asking you to explain it so a dumb person like me can understand.

Frankly I'm surprised kewlj mentions sessions because for years Singer was criticized for talking about sessions... with the APs saying all gambling is just one session.

---

Alan, you were doing pretty good for a couple of days. Now you are back to being an imbecile again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Moses, the APs here don't have downside losses or stop losses nor do they quit when they've lost too much. You must understand that our APs including kewlj are accumulating expected value when they lose and that accumulated +EV will make them winners.

Losing $8800 doesn't matter because of all the accumulated +EV kewlj got that day. Ask him.

---

Moses, don't be fooled by Alan. He hates all AP's because he can't stand winning gamblers. That includes you. He's only being nice to you because you are running down KJ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dankyone

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

---

+1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dankyone

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

---

Dankyone, you are confusing the anti-AP crowd with the facts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS__

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dankyone

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

---

+1

---

So the count was positive and he still lost $8800? I find that to be alarming for a card counter to do. Even if it was his best day for accumulating +EV he lost the $8800. Is that something that earns a title at a card counters convention?

In the real world it makes no sense. Perhaps in the AP world it does. But trust me when I say the world operates on "real world rules" and not on "AP rules" like you forum experts think it does.

Some of your AP claims have gone off the deep end. I remember when mickeycrimm was hunting for those ready to hit progressives on low denomination machines in Montana bars. Now he's earning $68k net profit by mid August.

Allow me to be skeptical. I had a very successful news career being skeptical. As we say in the consumer protection business "when something sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dankyone

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

---

Dankyone, you are confusing the anti-AP crowd with the facts.

---

Except for the one main FACT that the "ap's" want to duck: A Player Who Starts Betting "Much Bigger" When The Count Gets Positive Will Get Thrown Out And His/Her Picture And Details Will Instantly Be Shared With Every Casino In The State.

Wise up, BBB.

And I assume something that also "makes perfect sense" is that if he loses and leaves the table because of a negative count, he'll grab a seat at the second table he was simultaneously counting, unless, of course, his count was negative there too. That's where the story begins to cause kew to have something called a "dilemma".

A total BS story at it's finest....and one only a sensitive liberal from the weirdos at WoV could be talked into being real.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS__

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dankyone

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

---

+1

---

So the count was positive and he still lost $8800? I find that to be alarming for a card counter to do. Even if it was his best day for accumulating +EV he lost the $8800. Is that something that earns a title at a card counters convention?

In the real world it makes no sense. Perhaps in the AP world it does. But trust me when I say the world operates on "real world rules" and not on "AP rules" like you forum experts think it does.

Some of your AP claims have gone off the deep end. I remember when mickeycrimm was hunting for those ready to hit progressives on low denomination machines in Montana bars. Now he's earning $68k net profit by mid August.

Allow me to be skeptical. I had a very successful news career being skeptical. As we say in the consumer protection business "when something sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true."

---

And as we say in the real life business, " when you stiff your own son, you`re a deadbeat asswipe"

Keystone for once, just once, address the issue without a personal attack. Since you got here you only have made personal attacks. I'm not moved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

I have no fucking clue how I pay my house bills, internet, food, phone, satellite service, etc

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

We don't know either.

---

jbjb has no bills...he lives in his mother's basement.

He didn't even know how freeplay worked 2 years ago, how could he have been an AP?

jbjb is a fraud...and I can prove it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Moses, don't be fooled by Alan. He hates all AP's because he can't stand winning gamblers. That includes you. .

---

Thanks MC. But I don't gamble.

I'm from the "what you see, is what you get" school. Along time ago a pit boss 86ed me from across the pit. I had it coming. I was really taking advantage of a dealer who didn't know any better and the pit boss was in a very busy state during the NCAA tourney. I went back a few hours later and ask him how his picks were doing. I figured if he doesn't take a swing at me then we're okay. He accepted my apology, but was never going to let me play again. He's an old school guy. But he told me the worst thing I can do is insult the EITS. Assuming you're doing something they haven't seen before is the quickest way to get escorted to the little green 4 letter signs.

So I don't subscribe to that "hairy high school, now you see it, now you don't" mentality. The particular bit bos has moved onward an upward in his profession. He knows, I can drop the hammer. But I haven't since and won't. But the question will forever remain in his mind. Will he?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

So the count was positive and he still lost $8800? I find that to be alarming for a card counter to do. Even if it was his best day for accumulating +EV he lost the $8800. Is that something that earns a title at a card counters convention?

In the real world it makes no sense. Perhaps in the AP world it does. But trust me when I say the world operates on "real world rules" and not on "AP rules" like you forum experts think it does.

Allow me to be skeptical. I had a very successful news career being skeptical. As we say in the consumer protection business "when something sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true."

---

Alan. Alan. Alan. Sorry, I just like writing that. Blackjack and Sports bets are about finding value. Nothing more nothing less. Now, in the "real world" as you say, there are all sorts of pitfalls. Stocks, real estate, and even marriage are very costly if you don't seek and find value.
Now in losing $8,800 in a night? Definately something missing in that value approach. More likely, "the cheese temporarily slid completely off his cracker."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

I have no fucking clue how I pay my house bills, internet, food, phone, satellite service, etc

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

We don't know either.

---

jbjb has no bills...he lives in his mother's basement.

He didn't even know how freeplay worked 2 years ago, how could he have been an AP?

jbjb is a fraud...and I can prove it.

---

Fairness goes both ways. What's your proof that he's a fraud? If you don't have it you should apologize for a below the belt punch.

Moses I agree with you. There are definite advantages in card counting and sports betting. But like you when a card counter starts talking about accumulating EV when losing $8800 and refuses the concept of loss limits, I gotta wonder.

Jbjb ( Ibeatyouraces) maybe a lot of things, but you can be assured he makes his living via AP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Fairness goes both ways. What's your proof that he's a fraud?

---

He didn't know how freeplay works...that's my proof that he's not an AP.

I'll prove that he lives in his mommy's basement when he agrees to face me,
I'll convince him to admit it then.

Anybody who wants to witness his confession can be there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

Jbjb ( Ibeatyouraces) maybe a lot of things, but you can be assured he makes his living via AP.

---

Fuck you Ozzy, you sissy cheerleader.

You've been claiming to stalk IBYA from behind trashcans for years, like a fucking coward,
but jbjb has always denied that he is IBYA.

So shut the fuck up until jbjb confirms your suspicions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

He didn't know how freeplay works...that's my proof that he's not an AP.

---

This is the stupidest thing you have ever posted.

AP, advantage player is a broad term. It encompasses numerous more specific activities of different ways of playing different games with an advantage. Jbjb not knowing how free play works proves he may not know all that much about machine type advantage play. But, I don't remember him ever claiming to. What is very clear by his posts, is that he is very knowledgeable in blackjack advantage play, just as he claims. It always comes back to that "it just doesn't take that much to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking". Jbjb clearly knows what he is talking about concerning blackjack and blackjack AP.

But that is only the case for those objectively reading. For those trolling, entering the discussion looking to prove a predetermined negative....to find some sort of "gotch ya moment", well they see what they want to see. They look at the blue sky and see green. They look at the green grass and see orange.

So yeah, Jbjb may not know all that much about machine AP. He is a blackjack AP. I also didn't know a damn thing about machine AP....still don't know much. Like jbjb, I am a blackjack AP, focused on blackjack. I only learned a bit about machine play, because when I moved to Vegas, one of the guys that I network with convinced me, that I should throw a bit of machine play at certain casinos, because they would reward me with mailer free play worth far more than the expected loss to earn those offers. His exact words were " not taking advantage of this is leaving money on the table". So I experimented a little and learned just a bit. But otherwise there would be no reason for a blackjack specific AP like me (or jbjb) to know about free play and how it works.

You stating that jbjb is not the blackjack AP that he claims and quite frankly has proven beyond a reasonable doubt, because he didn't know how free play works is akin to claiming that Serena Williams is not a professional athlete, because she doesn't understand what a blitzing linebacker does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dankyone

Dear God. For once a constructive, interesting question was asked and KJ explained the answer in detail. He just needs a few chips to start playing. If he starts winning, great. If he starts by losing, and the count is negative, he will leave the table. If it’s positive, he will buy in for cash, ostensibly steaming, and bet much bigger. Makes perfect sense to anyone who cares to understand.

But here we are, back to the same old same old.

---

Thank you for this post and kind words, Dankyone. It is comforting to know that my post was clear to anyone who wants to see, and only those determined not to see and understand, don't see it.


And sadly, your final line, and observation, proves once again, this forum can't be changed into something constructive, useful and beneficial to others. It is what it is....a troll site. And that's what it always comes back to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Jbjb not knowing how free play works proves he may not know all that much about machine type advantage play.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

You stating that jbjb is not the blackjack AP that he claims and quite frankly has proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

---

What the fuck are you doing back here you lying piece of shit phony?

jbjb hasn't proven anything about playing blackjack, and he's always talked about vulturing machines.

So get the fuck out of here you tewl, you and your own stupid uninformed posts, and go back to your self-imposed exile, because my post did not reference you or anything that you know anything about.

I don't need to prove anything about blackjack. Any of you could easily do what I do. Just go out and find the opportunities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Fairness goes both ways. What's your proof that he's a fraud?

---

He didn't know how freeplay works...that's my proof that he's not an AP.

I'll prove that he lives in his mommy's basement when he agrees to face me,
I'll convince him to admit it then.

Anybody who wants to witness his confession can be there.

---

It's true that he didn't know how free play worked. And Ozzy might be correct that jbjb earns his living from AP. But what is missing is what kind of living is it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

I don't need to prove anything about blackjack. Any of you could easily do what I do. Just go out and find the opportunities.

---

You sent me a video of your opportunity. It's real. But it's also too rare. Even if the dealer exposed cards the way your video showed it is not something that could be consistent unlike card counting in blackjack. And since seeing the cards comes AFTER you place your initial bet the reality is you're only hoping that the dealer will make the same error so you can increase the bet in the hand you're playing at that moment. In other words you're gambling that the dealer will keep making the same error. Is that really an advantage play?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Some of your AP claims have gone off the deep end. I remember when mickeycrimm was hunting for those ready to hit progressives on low denomination machines in Montana bars. Now he's earning $68k net profit by mid August. Allow me to be skeptical. I had a very successful news career being skeptical. As we say in the consumer protection business "when something sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true."

---

Be skeptical all you want. But also pay attention. I started that road pic thread a year ago. There must be pics of a hundred casinos by now, and I know there are about 20 states involved. Hard to be in all those spots and be in Montana too. I'm not spending much time there these days although I'm still paying rent on an apartment.

I spent June in Montana then took off out of state again. There's a reason for it. I can always count on making 50K a year back home. But right now it's worth twice as much out of state. You see, Alan, there has been a recent development in AP machine play. A new generation of exploitable video games has hit the casinos nationwide. They started coming out in 2016 and there are still new exploitable games coming out every month. It's a renaissance similar to the golden age of machine AP, late nineties to early 2000's. These games are in 90% of the casinos in this country. Everywhere I go there they are. And it's easier than shit. Just mosey around the casino and pick off money.

And I guarantee you this, Alan. They are in the casinos you frequent is Las Vegas. You walk by them every time you are in a casino and don't know it. But since you and some others here don't give a rats ass about machine AP I won't bore you with the names of those games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

I don't need to prove anything about blackjack. Any of you could easily do what I do. Just go out and find the opportunities.

---

You sent me a video of your opportunity. It's real. But it's also too rare. Even if the dealer exposed cards the way your video showed it is not something that could be consistent unlike card counting in blackjack. And since seeing the cards comes AFTER you place your initial bet the reality is you're only hoping that the dealer will make the same error so you can increase the bet in the hand you're playing at that moment. In other words you're gambling that the dealer will keep making the same error. Is that really an advantage play?

---

Knowing the dealers hole card is huge Alan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Some of your AP claims have gone off the deep end. I remember when mickeycrimm was hunting for those ready to hit progressives on low denomination machines in Montana bars. Now he's earning $68k net profit by mid August. Allow me to be skeptical. I had a very successful news career being skeptical. As we say in the consumer protection business "when something sounds too good to be true it probably is too good to be true."

---

Be skeptical all you want. But also pay attention. I started that road pic thread a year ago. There must be pics of a hundred casinos by now, and I know there are about 20 states involved. Hard to be in all those spots and be in Montana too. I'm not spending much time there these days although I'm still paying rent on an apartment.

I spent June in Montana then took off out of state again. There's a reason for it. I can always count on making 50K a year back home. But right now it's worth twice as much out of state. You see, Alan, there has been a recent development in AP machine play. A new generation of exploitable video games has hit the casinos nationwide. They started coming out in 2016 and there are still new exploitable games coming out every month. It's a renaissance similar to the golden age of machine AP, late nineties to early 2000's. These games are in 90% of the casinos in this country. Everywhere I go there they are. And it's easier than shit. Just mosey around the casino and pick off money.

And I guarantee you this, Alan. They are in the casinos you frequent is Las Vegas. You walk by them every time you are in a casino and don't know it. But since you and some others here don't give a rats ass about machine AP I won't bore you with the names of those games.

---

And leave it to you to be too dumb to know when you're using tons of BS after getting caught contradicting yourself, and to claim to be winning consistently on slot machines in Indian casinos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

I don't need to prove anything about blackjack. Any of you could easily do what I do. Just go out and find the opportunities.

---

You sent me a video of your opportunity. It's real. But it's also too rare. Even if the dealer exposed cards the way your video showed it is not something that could be consistent unlike card counting in blackjack. And since seeing the cards comes AFTER you place your initial bet the reality is you're only hoping that the dealer will make the same error so you can increase the bet in the hand you're playing at that moment. In other words you're gambling that the dealer will keep making the same error. Is that really an advantage play?

---

I suspect the answer to this--and why one hasn't been manufactured as of yet--will be somewhat similar to the nonsense you got from kew and his "supporters" when repeatedly pressed about his two-table lie: "the phenomenon doesn't have to happen all the time....just guess right and there's your AP advantage right there".

If everyone remembers, when the tough questions kept coming about the two-table fiasco, these ap's finally relented into "well, the count doesn't need to be THAT accurate!" which to any intelligent mind immediately contradicted their claims about how counting provides such a slight edge that requires a "long grind". Now, suddenly, the second table count is allowed to be so-so for the advantage.

Stick around for 500 days and you'll see 500 different ap tales that always end up with foot-in-mouth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

If everyone remembers, when the tough questions kept coming about the two-table fiasco, these ap's finally relented into "well, the count doesn't need to be THAT accurate!" which to any intelligent mind immediately contradicted their claims about how counting provides such a slight edge that requires a "long grind". Now, suddenly, the second table count is allowed to be so-so for the advantage.

---

I hope everyone remembers it because gaining an advantage from a partial count is a mathematically proven principal. EVERY count in regards to card counting is a partial count...unless the game is dealt to the very last card. Those cards behind the shuffle point are unseen cards. All that happens if you miss seeing a couple cards is that number of unseen cards grows a bit. This is not desirable, but it doesn't change the principal of card counting, where an advantage is gained by the cards that are seen. This is a proven mathematical fact.

I am not surprised you have trouble understanding such a proven mathematical fact. I mean we are talking about a guy who goes against the proven principals of mathematics, in favor of voodoo fantasies, like that he won a million dollars grinding away at a -EV game using completely voodoo principals (against proven math) of progressive betting and stop limits. :rolleyes:

The fact is I have proven mathematical principals and facts on my side, you have voodoo concepts and fantasies on your side and all the vitriol and hate that you spew in an attempt to deflect from that truth can't change that.

You anti-AP guys are just so bitter and angry. Just look how angry coach belly got several times today. Over what?

In the real world he would probably find himself locked up somewhere. On any other forum, he would have been suspended or banned. But here, it is just part of the everyday hate, and anger that is expressed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozzy

Jbjb ( Ibeatyouraces) maybe a lot of things, but you can be assured he makes his living via AP.

---

Fuck you Ozzy, you sissy cheerleader.

You've been claiming to stalk IBYA from behind trashcans for years, like a fucking coward,
but jbjb has always denied that he is IBYA.

So shut the fuck up until jbjb confirms your suspicions.

---

Hey coach why don't you go put your nose up Robs ass where it belongs you homo!! Your anything but a coach I can envision a fat slob behind your bad ass name.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

And sadly, your final line, and observation, proves once again, this forum can't be changed into something constructive, useful and beneficial to others. It is what it is....a troll site. And that's what it always comes back to.

---

Once again you lose all credibility while trying to make yourself sound magnanimous. You stated your income and then screwed up the numbers to back it up. Of course, that is the forums fault. These guys read you like a book and YOU don't like it. Well, boo fucking woo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

You anti-AP guys are just so bitter and angry. Just look how angry coach belly got several times today. Over what? .

---

He is a news Flash/False. Deception and lies piss people off. Don't believe me? Go back and read some of the posts you made reagarding Flash. Some of your best work, I might add.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

In the real world he would probably find himself locked up somewhere..

---

So now you're a judge?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

On any other forum, he would have been suspended or banned. But here, it is just part of the everyday hate, and anger that is expressed.

---

You should know. Let's do the short list. Name the forums you do like and haven't been 86ed.

I don't play card table games so I'm asking for information. Mickeycrimm says it's "huge" knowing the dealer's hole card. My question is how huge is it? In a game such as Mississippi Stud knowing one card is worth what? Isn't it about 2% and is 2% "huge"?

Regarding not knowing how machine free play works: is there anyone who has been in a casino even once who doesn't understand the concept of free play?

Frankly you have to be in a bubble to be any kind of experienced player to earn the claim of "AP" but not know what free play is all about.

Jbjb lost points with that slip up. It made it appear he never actually played in a casino but just participated in forums.

I give him the benefit of the doubt.

I never used free slot play in that manner. I'll take the lost points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

So the count was positive and he still lost $8800?

---

Kewlj has always provided remarkably consistent explanations. Suppose his expected value is $50 per hour with a standard deviation of $2,000 per hour. Then in a four-hour playing day, he will average $200 with a standard deviation of $4,000. According to the normal distribution, 68% of these daily results will be in [-$3800,+$4200], and 95% of these daily results will be in [-$7800,+8200]. But 2.5% of the days will lose more than $7,800. It's called bad luck; how can you not understand?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I've never had a profitable year in a casino even getting two $100k royals in one year -- both of them seeded with $2500 of free play.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moses

Why does one need to conserve chips on just $1,500 a week? That's 3 pinks a week spread over how many casinos?

---

If you aren't trolling, then you are confusing expected value with standard deviation. His typical session fluctuations might be $500-$2,000. Buying chips slows down the game, and cashing chips wastes more time. It is quicker to just save chips if you are playing regularly. You can maintain convenient inventory by only cashing out big winners and buying more chips where you lose.

Kim Lee: No. I'm not trolling. My blackjack income is similar. Chips have never been an issue. Exposing and then capitalizing on value is the key. Since we lose if our opponent cries Uncle, then enduring such large swings of cash is a high risk.

Several years ago, when I lived outside of Nevada, I would buy in for large amounts. But it wasn't necessarily for blackjack. It was because I didn't want to carry around and count out large sums of cash. Hence, 4 pinks in the pockets goes without notice. 20 $100s makes a bulge. And I was lugging around a hell of a lot more than that. Of course, this created one helluva stir. So one day the pit boss cornered me. He said, "in the future, come to me, and I'll get you the pinks you need."

Why make simple complex?

Kim Lee: It seems you are using fancy words on Mendel, Mendel to make losing sound as though it's a good thing in search of the almighty T3 EV.

In the words of the late great Vince Lombardi "winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing." In other words, coming in 2nd really sucks. Now, Coach Lombardi clarified his statement years later to "if all your efforts go into to winning, then you will be a victorious." However, he wouldn't have won two Super Bowls if the Chiefs and Raiders would have been declared the victors by forfeiting. So victory in blackjack is a little bit trickier. Get in. Get paid. Get out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kim Lee

Kewlj has always provided remarkably consistent explanations. Suppose his expected value is $50 per hour with a standard deviation of $2,000 per hour. Then in a four-hour playing day, he will average $200 with a standard deviation of $4,000.

---

Hello Kim Lee. Thank you for the kind words. Are you 'the' Kim Lee from BJ21 years ago, that I used to converse with privately? The Kim Lee of "your bankroll is all of your entire wealth mentality" that I have never been able to wrap my head around. :rolleyes:

Anyway, welcome either way. It didn't take you long to identify Moses as a troll. I made a mistake the other night posting that I averaged $1500 a day, instead of $1500 a week, which I meant to say. A simple typo. I corrected and clarified it 20 minutes later, before anyone responded. I noted at that time that the anti-AP trolls would jump all over a simple typo. And to there credit most did not. Only Moses, did. That alone tells you what he is about.

Edit: oh I posted before I read your PM. I also just saw your email from a couple days ago. Good to be back in touch and again welcome. Not sure you will find this site to your liking though. There is an anti-AP fraction here that believes the earth is flat, that progressive betting can turn a -EV game to +EV and in the Easter bunny and big foot.

For those that may not be familiar with Kim Lee.....This is a guy that knows how to think outside the box in terms of AP play and success. :cool:

KJ. You friggin idiot. I never made mention of your stupid $1500 day/week error. What I mentioned was you claiming to average $200 per session at 6-10 sessions per day. Have you ever actually played the game? I mean without your panties not on backwards? So you're playing 5-6 days a week. That leaves you somewhere between 30 and 60 sessions a week. Your numbers simply do not back up your claims. In other words, you're full of shit...and everyone here can see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moses

KJ. You friggin idiot. I never made mention of your stupid error. What I mentioned was you claiming to average $200 per session at 6-10 sessions per day.

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It is the same error moses! I made the mistake of posting $1500 a day instead of $1500 a week. Then I broke that down by session, which because of the initial error was also wrong. I knew it didn't sound right when I posted it, as I play very short sessions, sometimes as short as a few minutes and I know I don't average $200 a session. Again, I wish I did. :rolleyes:

It was fairly late at night, so then I went to take my shower and started thinking about it and realized my mistake. By the time I got back online 20 minutes later, I was unable to edit my post. I guess Dan has initiated some short time frame for edits that he didn't tell us about. By that time, one of two members that were online at the time also PMed me, alerting me to the typo mistake. So I went ahead and corrected and clarified it in a new post, before anyone had responded.

So, screw you moses. I made a typo mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

For those that may not be familiar with Kim Lee.....This is a guy that knows how to think outside the box in terms of AP play and success. :cool:

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I'm sure Mr. Lee is a very smart man. But do we really need your Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah's? Give it a rest KJ. It's not about who you know. It's about what you know. And you don't know much. You mentioned you haven't corresponded with him in years. Again, the great KJ fails miserably in his attempt to make himself sound magnanimous.

[QUOTE=kewlJ;70898]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moses

So, screw you moses. I made a typo mistake.

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No screw you KJ. I got you exactly where I want you. Caught in your own web of lies. So you meant to say you make $1,500 a week on just 6 to 10 sessions? BULLSHIT. If you don't average $200 per session then why did you post it? You made a big deal out of the word "average." Again, you mislead these folks and then blame them for questioning?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moses

You should know. Let's do the short list. Name the forums you do like and haven't been 86ed.

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Moses, I have been banned at 2 forums, both because of one person, "Mr QFIT". He owned one of the forums, and begged/demanded his friend at the other ban me. And I think you know this, but you are letting whatever issue you have with me, cloud your telling of the truth.

And it is interesting...this person in question, Mr Q, has been feuding with different members of the blackjack AP community for decades. Some pretty big names in the blackjack AP community. I was actually just reminded very recently by a private contact of some of the names this individual has been at war with over the years, mostly before my time. Some very big and respected names in our community's history. Is it possible all these people, all successful blackjack players are wrong and "Mr Wonderful" is always right? Or is he one of these people that always must be feuding with someone, and as he recently proved, is unable to get past his grudges and move forward.

KJ. How would I know how many forums you've been banned? I simply observed you trash talk most all of them including this one.

As for Norm. Why does he do what he do? Because he can. I guess. But no fucking way will he ever take away my rights to freedom of speech.

Standing up for yourself against Norm, Flash, and others was admirable. But then you killed all your fine work by trying to kiss his ass, sneak back in, and expected to be welcomed with open arms. C'mon maaan. That is just sheer lunacy. You're smarter and better than that. No?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moses

KJ. How would I know how many forums you've been banned? I simply observed you trash talk most all of them including this one.

As for Norm. Why does he do what he do? Because he can. I guess. But no fucking way will he ever take away my rights to freedom of speech.

Standing up for yourself against Norm, Flash, and others was admirable. But then you killed all your fine work by trying to kiss his ass, sneak back in, and expected to be welcomed with open arms. C'mon maaan. That is just sheer lunacy. You're smarter and better than that. No?

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But he HAS taken away your right to free speech....at least in the blackjack community moses! Just as he did mine. You doing your little ranting and "mirror" discussions, on a site, zenzone, that you are the only member is not you exercising freedom of speech. Norm has taken that from you, just as he did me, creeping panther, Zengrifter, Automonkey, Zenking, and many, many more.

More importantly than free speech, he has taken away the right of other members, to hear my opinions, thoughts and experiences, as well as YOUR opinions, thoughts and experiences (crazy as they might be) and Zenking's, CP's, Zengrifter's thoughts and experiences.

And yes, he has reduced me to this site....and yes I bad mouth this site, because it is ridiculous. We are not discussing Vegas, or casinos as the name suggests. We are not discussion blackjack or any other casino games in a productive manner that might benefit anyone else. We are arguing if AP even exists with AP haters that refuse to believe anyone can make money from the casinos. It literally is like we are arguing the Easter Bunny or the earth is flat. So yeah, I am a little angry about that....that this is what this site is, despite Dan's promise months ago, to go in a more productive direction.